Latest / Cover IV Podcast / Eight is Enough with Matt Hafele & Ralph Boettger

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Eight is Enough with Matt Hafele & Ralph Boettger · Cover IV Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Cover Four.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a Section Four football fan, this is your podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Coach Smith, and I'll be your host.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Our guests today are Matt Hafley, the assistant.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, the athletic director and assistant football coach for Unitego Franklin.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we got Ralph Butker, the linebacker and quarterback coach at Dryden.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, guys.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Tim.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having us, Tim.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, glad to have you guys.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to this.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk a lot about the eight-player classification today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the largest classification in section four.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, there's 12 teams in that particular classification.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: But before we get going, I want our guests to share a little bit about their Section Four coaching background with us so we kind of get an idea who you are, where you come from.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh why don't you go ahead, Matt, and UT up?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, like uh like you said, Tim, I'm uh Unitego Franklin, and I've uh been there for I graduated from there, went to high school there, and and now I'm lucky enough to be coaching there.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's 10 or 11 years, but I I have a tough time keeping track of that stuff.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um but uh so yeah, we just uh we just dove into the eight-person realm last uh springslash fall, whatever you want to call it there in the 2021 season.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Frank McCroney, who's our head coach, does a great job, and I've been lucky enough to help him out for the last 10 or so years.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Ralph?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I grew up on Long Island, Section 8, and then I uh most of my coaching before 86 was in the section five area, Geneseo, Avon, Dansville, and then uh in 86 I came over to Section 4 and started Ithaca High School, and I bounced around quite a bit.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of the loose Saban of high school coaches, uh Ithaca High School, Cortland State, Candor, Dryden, back to Ithaca, back to Dryden.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the last stop before um before this present one was at Newfield for three years is eight-man football.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I've been around and uh I love Section Four football.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that lately I think we're dominating the you know the state, the state scene with Sus Valley, Shenango Forks, and the list goes on of people that are always represented at the state level.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh pretty proud to be a part of Section Four.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Section Four is uh, like you said, is a really good uh football, a lot of football programs.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the toughest road to a state championship is just getting out of your section, in particular section four, uh, with some of the teams that they have specifically, and you know, the uh C and D division or B division, how those teams kind of fluctuate sometimes.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I want you guys to give us a little insight into eight eight-player football.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: When I think of that, I think of like when I we were playing Sandlot, and if we had eight players on each side, we saw, hey, eight, that's enough, we could play, you know, or the team remember the TV show eight's enough, where they had the you know, the eight, the eight, eight kids.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I I would have loved to have played uh eight-man football.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: It look, I look at it as like almost like an arena game, but on a bigger field, you know, with the same kind of uh uh setup.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't you guys uh just take your time and go through and give us some insight into the game and what you see are some of the similarities with the traditional 11 player game, but also uh some of the differences and some of the nuances that you have to be aware of, not only from a player standpoint, but being able to coach it and also from a fan's perspective, things that they need to understand.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Matt, you want to go first?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sure.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we were like I said uh before, we just started last year, uh last season, I guess, with the uh eight-person stuff and had no idea what to expect.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Coming into it, uh Frank, who's our head coach and myself, we had never seen an eight-person game.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Tried to get over to one at uh Unadilla Valley to watch them one year just to check it out because you know you can see the writing on the wall with the the numbers and those sort of things, but it was like 32 degrees and sleeting out, so we decided to stay home that night.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we never got our chance to get over and check it out.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so our first uh foray into it, I guess, was our first game last year.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and there are some differences, there are some similarities that I saw.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Ralph will probably be able to speak better to that as he's been around a little bit longer.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um as far as similarities, and I told a lot of people this whenever they ask me, is that you know, it's still blocking, it's still tackling, it's still catching the football, it's still getting the the quarterback center exchange down and those things, you know, and and when I'm coaching it on the sideline, I don't say, oh geez, there's there's six less guys out there.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't football, you know what?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Never, never once.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still coaching our kids as best I can.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um the differences that I've seen is that uh you've got to be in shape because it's a wide open game and there is a lot more running.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I do our defense, and you have to be able to tackle in open space.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you can't tackle uh Ralph's quarterback there in open space at Newfield, you're in a lot of trouble.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he might put up about 70 on you.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: But and every team has one of those guys, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody has an athlete out there that can make guys miss and get in open space and do electric things.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's for our kids and where we're at numbers-wise in our program and in our district, really.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, we're down to 100 males from grades nine through 12 in our school.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and that kind of necessitated our move to go to the eight-man game.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, everybody has a kid or two like that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can't tackle that guy in open space, I mean they're gonna put points up in a hurry.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so that's what I've seen, you know, in our our four games last year.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: We lost a couple, uh, one due to COVID, one due to a team not having enough guys to play.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, but but it's a lot of fun.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think that our kids really enjoyed it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: It gave them a chance, and you know, I I'm excited for moving forward for us to keep football in-house, if you will.
• 6:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think from a fan's perspective, too, it's it's exciting because you you don't have a lot of three to nothing or 10 to 7 ball games.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the scoreboard sometimes is like a meter in a uh taxi cab.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of keeps going, you know, that kind of thing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely, yeah, it's fun, fun to watch.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it could be frustrating from a coaching standpoint because I was I'm a defensive uh guy, and I you know, I like to keep the score down, but in in that it's really uh it's difficult, but it's it's a lot of fun too, and you got to keep in mind that that's what it's all about.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to us a little bit, Ralph.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I it through four years ago, three and a half years ago, I was brought on to the Newfield staff.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was 11 men football.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Within a couple of months, they end they ended up immediately converting to eight man, didn't know much about it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of us at that time, we were kind of the first in Section Four, our group that uh that that you know, we could we didn't have much to go on.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to research out west, tried to research some of the stuff that was going on.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's section nine, who had already been involved in that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it what it appeared to me is if you look at it from a close angle of view, a lot of it looks similar.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you can bring your both ends in, have three backs in the backfield, then it looks similar to like an eye backfield or a split back.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some similarities in terms of aesthetic, aesthetic appearance.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then as I got coaching it, there's nothing, you know, the open field tackling.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, you nailed that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't open field tackling, you're in a lot of trouble.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the gator tackling and and things that you have to do to break down a little bit earlier, those that that was new to me.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh you didn't have enough people to do the contained support cutback alleys, and it just ended up being always a man short.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when we started, we were blessed with a bunch of sophomores that had just come off modified football, 11-man, and everybody we were playing was was was first year uh eight-man.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we were on the same boat.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: The first game we played was against Unitella Valley, and it was 70 to 60, and it was a brutal, it was a brutally hot day.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And as a matter of fact, at halftime, we're up by 30, and it was Art Regis.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Art Regis came to us and said something like, I don't know how much more our kids can take.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: They were low in numbers, and uh so so that initial start of it was like, oh my god, is this the way every game is gonna be?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the games are high scoring, and as defensive coordinator for Newfield for three years, I found it real difficult to cover the regulation field.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You always end up, like I said before, always like a man short.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But going back to the fundamentals, it's the same thing.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, the tackling, the blocking, like Matt said, everything is is very similar.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You still coach them up in practice, the drills are very similar.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you get to teen period, it's a little bit different.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, in all honesty, if you're a football guy and you love the game, this is nothing more than an adaptation to what's going on.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the numbers are low all over, whether it's the concussion, whether it's moms and dads worrying about the safety of their kids.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do know that the safety of equipment is is moving up and is really getting better.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think we're getting numbers back a little bit.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the eight-man teams have pretty decent numbers, numbers that might say, why aren't they in 11-man?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I hope that section four looks at eight-man as just another way to play football and not something that's taking away from football.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, yeah, we're the eight-man league is taken away a little bit from the 11-man team.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's teams that that are uh that are now eight-man that would have been normally in the 11-man leagues, but I do believe that uh it's just football, it's a game.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and from you know, I'm a phys ed teacher for years, retired for eight years, but you know, the bottom line for athletics, you know, is we're giving kids something healthy to do.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's 11-man, eight-man, I mean, you go down to Texas, six-man's a religion, it's nuts down there.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Their 11-man game is is off as much as we know.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what in looking back on my three years at Newfield, because I'm now at Dryden, uh, 11-man football, and uh, I've been there for a lot of years.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm looking at is I think it's healthy.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think all the coaches that are coaching now are kind of getting into it, and it's kind of a a a little bit of a community.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a cooperation that goes on.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many calls I've taken.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any film?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just starting out like Moravia called me up and Groton called me up, trying to figure out how to work it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the more we talk about it, the more is you know, defensively trying to cover all that space.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And with that said, there's on the table right now, uh Matt, I know you know this is you know, are we gonna stay 53 by 100 or are we gonna reduce it down to what section nine does, which is you know, a modified type field.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm coaching defense and eight man, yeah, darn right I want it to be uh you know, less than 53 and a third.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but if but if if you're you know, for the excitement of the game, Matt Matt mentioned it, it's exciting.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you get one kid like we had uh Jacob Humble.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he has that ability to stop on a dime and make somebody miss.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you now you go back to youth football, where you have you know that one kid that's faster and quicker than everybody else, and he just avoids.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you avoid one, maybe that's the defensive end, you avoid a second to corner, and all of a sudden you have six people left to cover all that space.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's electrifying if you're on offense.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if and I I truly believe our our head coach, Jeff Stein, uh worked wonders taking advantage of Jacob's skill set, and uh it it caused me headaches every day in practice trying to stop Jake and trying to stop the kids that can but but open field tackling, yeah, that might be the one thing, Matt, that that comes up as being if you can't open field tackling and if you're not in shape, wow, you are in some you are in a world of hurt.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I used to coach or I used to recruit student athletes specifically uh for football.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I would have liked to watch the eight-man or eight-player game because what it does is it it heightens a lot of things that they're looking for at the next level, i.e., getting a student athlete out in space, either with the ball or on defense, you're in space.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: What can you do?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it also uh heightens like the need to be on the right pursuit angle.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Pursuit angles are so huge in this game.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I it would drive me nuts with like the offside corner.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this I'm talking 11 player game when I was coaching 11 player, is that offside corner when there's a sweep around the other end, they're just lollygagging back.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I explained that you got to get on your horse and assume that they're gonna go down the sideline because you're probably gonna be the last guy, you know.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So things like that, you know, all the all the skill sets, especially things that involve space, uh, pursuit angles, like you said, we've talked it uh a lot right now, is the tackling, also blocking, especially like reach block, where you've got to get out and go get the guy.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's not within two or three yards, he's maybe seven or yards away now.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: You got to really get to him.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it heightens uh and stretches kids, student athletes, I should say, stretches them and pushes them to do things that you may not have to do all the time in the 11 player game.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I do I do believe, Tim, that that whatever responsibilities each position has, the the the nuances are exaggerated.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a backside linebacker, if you're in a 3-2, you know, let's say they they have two backs in the backfield, we'll run a 3-2 against you.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: That backside linebacker really does have to stay home.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he just can't take off, and and I want to get involved.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So so every little tiny thing like that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now we we spent an inordinate amount of time with our defensive ends.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Defensive ends are a tough position to play in high school, you got to contain, you got to squeeze the off tackle and so forth.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: But now you have the added pressure of rushing a passer, rushing a gun, a shotgun guy, and then knowing that boy, one little move and they're gone because most teams are playing man, so you got four, you know, going downfield, and they're they're out of the picture.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you really have, you know, uh, you have to make sure that you're very disciplined.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: We did so many different things with the defensive ends.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if other teams did the same thing, but uh, we had all different charges.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: We had we had an attack mode where we'd come real hard and then we'd stop.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: We had a feather, we had techniques beyond what I used in 11-man football, just because we had to uh you know kind of help missing that you know one or two extra guys, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's not the help there, and uh you know, if that guy misses, it's you know, especially if uh is Jacob gone because I think we played Newfield in October.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, he is.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's at St.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thomas from that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right, excellent.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Great news.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad to hear it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: He won't keep me awake at night right now.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, the kid from Uridale Valley, the quarterback.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, he was he's phenomenal.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: We had a kid uh this year, Leo Temple, who's actually one of our Franklin boys, who's about 6'1, 250-pound running back who was like a a bull, but but could also run.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, you know, trying to tackle him every day in practice.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Our guys are like, I can't do it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I know.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Have you watched him on Friday night?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like nobody has.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's right, that's right.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody, everybody, like we said, both, everybody's got the that guy.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and I think that's what makes it exciting too.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, you were up 30 points against United Valley that first game at halftime, and it ends up being a 10-point game.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're never out of it, you know.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and we struggle with that a little bit too, you know, in the sportsmanship realm of it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you might be up 26 points on somebody, and you're like, well, do we work some guys in, or is it not enough?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: They get an onside kick and they first play they go to score a touchdown here.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden you're back in a you know, two possession game.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when is an you know, it's different in the 11-man game.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: That that home run ability may not be there as much.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Where in the elect yeah, the eight person, you know, every play could be a touchdown.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Every, you know, no matter where you are, no matter where you are, you can score, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yep, I agree.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's you know, it's fun, I think, for the the spectators and the the fellow student athletes and you know the kids on the team too.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really uh, you know, it's fun, it's different.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: We had Matt, that's that's a great, great um what you just said about it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You it's never too late.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: You you you're always in the ball game.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're up by six against T Berg with about two minutes left in the game.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have our ball on our one-yard line.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: We just stopped them, so we're in good shape, but we still have two minutes to kill.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Quarterback sneak, nothing, quarterback sneak nothing, and all of a sudden our uh you know our head coach spreads everybody out and he goes 95 yards for a touchdown on a quarterback sneak, just because one what you know the nose guard just went the same way as the backer, and all of a sudden we're gone.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you're right, we're never out of the ball game.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that teaches the kid that that's a lesson every kid needs to know.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You get up big, how are you gonna act?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna you know are you gonna be cocky?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna just coast from now.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're down, so eight-man football kind of accentuates that lesson.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're never out of it, and you know what?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're also never uh away from uh losing the game, even if you're down by or up by three.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Touch absolutely, absolutely.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: We had our actually our last game against Green of the Year this year.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um we were up 10 or 12, like two and a half minutes ago, and ended up losing by two, sort of the you know, same, same kind of thing.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, it it you know, I'm sure the the green fans loved it.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Ours were they, you know, I waited till I I waited till they all left before I walked to the bus, but you know how that goes.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Matt, that doesn't change.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: The parents and yeah, that stuff doesn't change, it's still everything outside the lines is pretty much the same.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Ralph, you had mentioned uh real briefly about the dimensions of the field.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you uh state that again for us so that we understand the difference between the uh the field dimensions?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, the you know, the regulation 11-man field is 53 and a third yards wide and then a hundred wide, a hundred yards long.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, Matt, I don't know if you have the answer.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing it's 10 yards in and 20 yards lengthwise.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna say it's 80 by 40 something.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a guess.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know the exact either, Ralph, for the eight-man, but it that's close.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's the ballpark somewhere in that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that changes things, and that's you know, you're but but then again, that's easier said than done for coaches.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You got the feet, uh artificial turf fields, you got grass, and all of a sudden you're you're you know, you're you have to move in everything, the hashes moving, the sidelines.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have an artificial turf field, then really you're probably working with chalk lines or something that's not permanent, uh, because there's so many lines to begin with on artificial turf fields.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think that's one of the sticking points is what are those teams going to do in artificial turf fields.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: The conversations just started, Tim, with the with this.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was brought up at the last committee meeting that uh yeah, I think we have to at least consider.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm not mistaken, Matt, it I think it came from the officials.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think I recall that as well.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and that's another uh it's it's you know, there was uh some I think Ralph that they were talking about some sections where officials didn't want to work the eight-man game, maybe was that where it started?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um because it is so uh cardio intensive, yeah, if if you will.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and people, you know, uh let's it's not a f uh it's not a secret that our our official spaces are getting older and older and we're not getting the younger people in.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh they you know, a lot of them can't do it, they just can't cover the ground.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, that's where I I think it was section three that started the talk of that, maybe if if I'm not mistaken.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, though those are all things that are that are coming.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like Ralph said, we're I think that eight-man game is so new to everyone else right now.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody's just kind of trying to feel it out and see where we're headed.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I can only speak from the Mac League, but I could see two more teams joining in the next couple of years, you know, uh joining the eight-person ranks.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know about the IC, you know, where we're there at numbers-wise, but I know from our league there are two that could could definitely be there in the next couple of years.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Matt, I think there's uh there's gonna be a tough decision for districts.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Either you merge or you go eight man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm a big believer in keeping football no matter what it is.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You if you merge, great.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't, I I I love the identity that each school has with its athletic program, but at the same token, in order to survive, you might have to merge.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: In order to survive, you might have to go eight man, and but and and there's everything else stays the same, the equipment's the same, you know, the way you teach things is it's just it's just uh aesthetically a different looking game.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I I tell people there's gonna be teams that are gonna pack it in.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: We played Elmira Notre Dame, Mike Deliso does an amazing job at that program for decades, and they ran double wing.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now they couldn't have they didn't have a fullback, you know, or they'd have half a wing and they'd have that fullback, but they tried to run conceptually the same things, and I and Lansing, they'll double tight it and they'll run the eye and they'll go blast ISO.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so you'll see some of the traditional stuff for us.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: For us, you know, Matt, if you've seen any film on us, we are so not traditional.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, we we'll have everybody all over the place, we'll have guards, guards.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: The only people left are the we'll go, you know, what the muddle huddle concept, and and all we're looking for is for that one mistake you're gonna make so Jake can take off.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's like a video game, I guess.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think you're right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's it you're right, it is.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we we had a little bit of both in there.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, we had the the big bull in the backfield there, Leo.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we would you know hope everybody packed it in.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: If he got by the first wave, I mean, you know, he made one guy miss and everybody's packed in there tight.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he still had enough speed to get away from everybody.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we had a couple of decent athletes that you know try to take advantage of here and there, but you know, we had a pretty good line with some seniors last year and and try to use those to your advantage.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that it's still trying to exploit the mismatches where you can get them, right?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um like you said, you're trying to get Jake a a place where he can make a guy miss, and we're trying to get our best guy where where he can do something exciting and and rip off big yards.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, in that respect, it's still football.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, it's no different.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, I don't know if you agree with me.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's so stressful on a defensive coordinator.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm 40 years old and I'm fully gray.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, it is.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it is.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I I would tell Frank who does our offense, I'm like, if I can keep them under 50, you got a chance.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: But exactly, you know, like that's the number I'm shooting for, you know.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: In 11 man, I'd say I I can hold them to 20, and and you've got a chance.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can do that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can score, you score three times.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Here it's like you gotta score seven.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta get seven in there for us to win tonight.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can stop a couple times, but uh um an offshoot of that.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: What you just said, Matt, is there's you get up big in the fourth quarter, let's say you're up three touchdowns.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I still can't relax.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, what that does is now your substitution in an you know, in that fourth quarter, your mom and dads are waiting to see their kid play.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: That that's I think is going to be a dilemma for a lot of young coaches that you know they're trying to get kids in, but man.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely, Ralph.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I, you know, and and it stinks, it really does, because you're you know, we're still in the business of kids, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and trying to provide them all a great experience, and you know, they don't see it from our end, I guess.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't so I mean you hit the nail on the head right there.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is super, super stressful.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that could be there could be some more confrontations than than has been in the past.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I think right because they're just looking at the the scoreboard, they don't they're not thinking, you know, two possession, three possession time, you know, the you know, like we do.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, to them it's well it's 21 points.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Still you know, this difference between 16 and 18 is huge there, you know.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Huge.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they're doing they're uh they're watching an eight-player game with an 11 player uh mentality.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're really talking about here.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you get to the end of the game and you're at some stage where you normally an 11-player game, that's considered a comfortable lead with that amount of time.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: But your perspective is totally different in the eight-player game.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Two snaps could be two touchdowns for a team.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not unrealistic to happen.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I understand the the dilemma there, but uh it's good that we talk about this.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that hopefully the uh parents of the student athletes will listen to this podcast and understand the perspective uh is also different from a coaching standpoint because scoring can happen so quickly.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what you'd hate to do is you know, put your student athletes in and put them in a position like that and have a team score and you lose, and then they feel bad.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the student athletes feel bad that hey, we lost the game.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's there's a it's a tough one, it's a really tough situation I feel for you guys coaching at that 11-player uh you know situation like that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's we pretty much talked eight-player out, and I think we have you, you guys, I appreciate you guys have covered all that I can think of in terms of the nuances, uh, both positive and negative, the you know, similarities and and the common things uh with the game.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think anybody that really wants to know the eight-man or the eight-player game really needs to listen to this podcast and specifically you two guys talk this through.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's great stuff.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, this is what this podcast was all about to get involved with.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't been to an eight-player game.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I watched a lot of them last year that had uh teams play on TV, and I was able to watch on YouTube and different things.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, uh, from an aesthetic perspective, especially when you're seeing it from the side, it's really difficult to tell the difference uh in terms of the number of players out there because you know you zoom in and it looks like a regular uh formation and stuff.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, when you're playing on a regular size field with fewer people, common sense tells you you got more ground to cover and you got to do that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: So unless you guys have anything else, I'll this really kind of wraps it up for us.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, thank you guys for taking the time.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure your busy schedule is ramping up for the season to come out and share this knowledge and insight with us.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, you guys.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tim, one thing I think that uh people always ask, well, who do you take out?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the best way I can describe when you go from 11 to 8 man, and Matt, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, you take out two tackles and a back or receiver, and on defense, you take out two tackles and maybe a linebacker or defense, you know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, you still have defensive ends, you still have something interior, you still have linebackers, you have secondary, and then the offensive end, you know, center quarterback, and you really only have two line, it's a three line, the center and the two guards.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So people ask that question.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that that that's my answer to it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, your your two tackles are gone and one skill guy on offense, and then you know, defense.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still really trying to get the best athletes I can out there.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're trying to get our best athletes that will tackle you on the field.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh well said, you know, hopefully we have eight of them.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, great.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, you guys.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Tim.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Keep up the great work, Tim.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Keep doing what you're doing, it's awesome.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Take care, Matt.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck this year.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You too, Ralph.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Coach.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, tell your friends, Coach Smith says, visit cover4.com and be the next fan up.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: In football and life, it's not where we line up, it's where we wind up.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Cover 4 podcast.