Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Shocking Details Revealed on Slaughter of 2 Delphi Girls

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Shocking Details Revealed on Slaughter of 2 Delphi Girls · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: In the last days, we believe finally the case of
0:13
Speaker 1: the Delphi Bridge double murder, where Liberty and Abby were
0:17
Speaker 1: led to their death, had totally been solved. But little
0:22
Speaker 1: did we know that in the last hours there would
0:25
Speaker 1: be reverberations from the arrest of Richard Allen. Take a
0:30
Speaker 1: listen to this. We know Richard Allen worked as a
0:34
Speaker 1: licensed pharmacy take at this CVS here in Delphi, but
0:37
Speaker 1: many continue to ask and wonder how a man now
0:41
Speaker 1: charged with two counts of murder managed to stay under
0:43
Speaker 1: the radar in a town of about three thousand people.
0:50
Speaker 1: Those who live in Delphi are still trying to cope
0:53
Speaker 1: with news that Richard Allen is the man police say
0:56
Speaker 1: murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. I mean if they
0:59
Speaker 1: after Halloween. It's a little eerie and tense. In downtown
1:03
Speaker 1: Delphi on the Square business is like the office tavern
1:07
Speaker 1: put up a new sign on their door reading no
1:09
Speaker 1: media allowed. They weren't the only ones. Country Hair also
1:13
Speaker 1: had a sign off camera. One business owner told thirteen News,
1:17
Speaker 1: the community is still in shock. You were just hearing
1:20
Speaker 1: from our friends at WTHR well after the arrest of
1:23
Speaker 1: the local pharmacy tech. Everyone wondered, why him, Why now?
1:31
Speaker 1: What do they know that we don't know? Well? In
1:35
Speaker 1: the last hours over objection, a judge has unsealed a
1:40
Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit that goes with a warrant for search
1:45
Speaker 1: and arrest, and it is full of a trove of
1:50
Speaker 1: evidence pointing the finger at the father, the husband, the
1:54
Speaker 1: pharmacy tech. Alan listen critical evidence that infamous video after
2:00
Speaker 1: by fourteen year old Libby German on her cell phone.
2:02
Speaker 1: Police say Libby was rolling as Alan walked behind her
2:05
Speaker 1: and thirteen year old friend Abby Williams on that bridge.
2:09
Speaker 1: According to documents, one of the girls is heard mentioning
2:12
Speaker 1: a gun as the man approaches, then orders them down
2:15
Speaker 1: the hill. In that hunting audio from our friends at
2:22
Speaker 1: ABC and more from w DRB. The probable cause Affidavid
2:26
Speaker 1: says Abby and Libby were found dead in the woods
2:28
Speaker 1: less than a quarter mile from the moon on High
2:30
Speaker 1: Bridge and there was a forty caliber unspent round found
2:34
Speaker 1: between the victim's bodies less than two feet away from
2:38
Speaker 1: Libby German. Investigators first spoke to Richard Allen back in
2:42
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and at that time Allan told investigators he
2:46
Speaker 1: was on the trails by the Moon on high Bridge
2:48
Speaker 1: between one thirty and three thirty on the day of
2:51
Speaker 1: the murders. The PC did not say why investigators spoke
2:55
Speaker 1: to him back in twenty seventeen. The girls bodies were
2:59
Speaker 1: found the next day, along with other items, including an
3:01
Speaker 1: unfired bullet which was found between the victims. Between the
3:05
Speaker 1: witness statements and further evidence, police believe the man in
3:07
Speaker 1: that victim's video is Richard Allen. Last month, police recovered
3:11
Speaker 1: a pistol from Alan's Delphi home. The state Police lab
3:14
Speaker 1: later determined that unfired bullet had cycled through Alan's gun.
3:19
Speaker 1: Alan denied his involvement in the girls murders during a
3:22
Speaker 1: later interview, and on October thirty first this year, he
3:26
Speaker 1: was arrested and charged based on the evidence recovered from
3:29
Speaker 1: our friends also WHR and that's the tip of the
3:32
Speaker 1: iceberg from what we're learning from this PC affidavit, A
3:37
Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit, I mean, see Grayson, this is crime Stories.
3:41
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
3:43
Speaker 1: and Sirius XM one eleven. What is a probable cause affidavit? Well,
3:49
Speaker 1: it's legal lingo. What it means is you get an investigator,
3:54
Speaker 1: a police officer, a detective familiar with the case to
3:57
Speaker 1: go before a magistrate. You can even do it over
3:59
Speaker 1: the phone if you have to. That detective or whoever
4:03
Speaker 1: you're affiant who is swearing under oath for an affidavit.
4:09
Speaker 1: That person tells the judge of the magistrate what they
4:12
Speaker 1: know and what they know in this case led to
4:16
Speaker 1: an arrest and a search warrant. Now there's so much
4:21
Speaker 1: to go through, but we're finally getting answers. Who, what, where? Wife? When?
4:25
Speaker 1: Why is Richard Allen, a seemingly loving husband and father
4:30
Speaker 1: now behind bars for the murder of two little girls?
4:34
Speaker 1: Why is he charged with felony murderer? Well, it all
4:38
Speaker 1: seems to hinge on this bullet a shell found about
4:44
Speaker 1: two feet from the dead bodies between the two little girls.
4:49
Speaker 1: Joining me and all Star palel to make sense of
4:52
Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first I'm gonna go
4:53
Speaker 1: straight out to Alexis McAdams, Fox News National correspondent. You
4:57
Speaker 1: can find her on Instant and Twitter, Alexis McAdams TV. Alexis,
5:02
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You happened to be
5:05
Speaker 1: the first reporter to sit down and speak to lead
5:08
Speaker 1: detectives on the del Fi case. And what I'm reading
5:11
Speaker 1: in this affidavit, this PC probacause affidavit is a blockbuster.
5:18
Speaker 1: First of all, who opposed releasing the information? Police didn't
5:23
Speaker 1: want it released, But at the last court hearing they
5:26
Speaker 1: said that they were fine with it coming out and
5:29
Speaker 1: that they didn't think that it would put their case
5:30
Speaker 1: in jeopardy. But before they had anybody in custody, they
5:33
Speaker 1: never wanted any of the information out there. And they
5:36
Speaker 1: still haven't released publicly how the girls were killed. You know,
5:39
Speaker 1: they're still sitting on evidence. But we're hearing a lot
5:42
Speaker 1: about this shell that was quote cycled through Richard Allen
5:48
Speaker 1: sig sour. What do we know? Take a listen to
5:50
Speaker 1: Steve Brown, the Indiana State Police laboratory determined the unspent
5:55
Speaker 1: round has been cycled through Richard Allen's sigsour P. Twenty six.
6:01
Speaker 1: Retired IMPD Detective Sergeant Greg Arkins tells us when a
6:05
Speaker 1: round or shellcasing is ejected from a firearm that leaves
6:09
Speaker 1: distinct marks even if it isn't fired. Whenever a person
6:13
Speaker 1: unloads a gun that's loaded with a round in the chamber,
6:19
Speaker 1: then when you pull back on the slide, the extractor
6:23
Speaker 1: grabs a hold, and the extractor is made of hard metal,
6:26
Speaker 1: where the shellcasing is made of slightly softer metal, so
6:32
Speaker 1: it leaves very unique microscopic scratch striations on the showcasing.
6:39
Speaker 1: Reliable is this information? I'm not a firearms examiner, but
6:43
Speaker 1: from my experience I found it's like, Okay, let's break
6:48
Speaker 1: that down and put it in regular people talk. A
6:51
Speaker 1: striation is simply a scratch. I don't know why they
6:54
Speaker 1: make it sound so difficult. It's a scratch, but it's
6:57
Speaker 1: a very important scratch because this scratch destriation is like
7:02
Speaker 1: a finger print joining me. Jose Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
7:06
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
7:10
Speaker 1: starving Hit a new series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
7:13
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, let's just explain it as simply as possible.
7:16
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be confusing. Okay, you take the
7:20
Speaker 1: known bullet, I eat the bullet that's found right there
7:25
Speaker 1: between Abby and Libby, right between them, and you get
7:29
Speaker 1: what you believe to be the murder weapon, and you
7:34
Speaker 1: fire a bullet from the murder weapon. You take the
7:37
Speaker 1: bullet you just fired, you put it under a microscope
7:41
Speaker 1: right beside the one you find at the crime scene,
7:44
Speaker 1: and you look through the microscope and you turn them
7:47
Speaker 1: around and low and behold. No other gun in the
7:52
Speaker 1: world will make those marks. Explain why? Yeah, and there's
7:58
Speaker 1: a real important distinction, your Nancy, this round was not fired. Right.
8:03
Speaker 1: If you could get back to why why the markings
8:07
Speaker 1: on the two bullets are like a fingerprint, That's the question.
8:13
Speaker 1: They use the term striation, and striation merely means line,
8:17
Speaker 1: and I don't know why they can't say that more simply. Okay,
8:20
Speaker 1: I just said that, is this an echo chamber? No offense,
8:23
Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan, but Cheryl McCollum, could you help Joe
8:28
Speaker 1: Scott talk in regular people talk? Just the question, how
8:32
Speaker 1: do you make a comparison? I spent two minutes asking
8:35
Speaker 1: this question, how do you make the fingerprint comparison? They're
8:38
Speaker 1: gonna take that weapon, they're gonna fire it. Did I'm
8:41
Speaker 1: not just say that, I know, I'm saying how they're
8:43
Speaker 1: going to compare it. They took the actual weapon, they
8:46
Speaker 1: fired it in a chamber. They compared both the striations
8:49
Speaker 1: side by side, so those scratches line up. So it
8:53
Speaker 1: might be three tall scratches, two short scratches, and another
8:56
Speaker 1: tall scratch. They're gonna line up perfectly. So the way
8:58
Speaker 1: they do that is in side that weapon, they carve
9:02
Speaker 1: out these grooves, and the reason they do that is
9:06
Speaker 1: for the bullet to spin. And if you think about
9:09
Speaker 1: a football being thrown, the tighter that spiral is the
9:13
Speaker 1: factor that ball goes and the more accurate that ball flies. Now,
9:17
Speaker 1: see you're missing, you're missing the point here. They did
9:19
Speaker 1: not have to fire the west side again. Yes it is, Jackie,
9:24
Speaker 1: Give me a second. Okay, we were talking about why
9:31
Speaker 1: a gun leaves a mark on a bullet. Okay, when
9:36
Speaker 1: a gun is made, think of it in the factory.
9:41
Speaker 1: It's hot and metal and it dries. Okay, they polished
9:45
Speaker 1: the outside of the gun, it's all beautiful. The inside
9:49
Speaker 1: of the barrel is not polished, and there are little
9:52
Speaker 1: dots and marks and imperfections on the inside of that gun.
9:58
Speaker 1: When that bullet pearls itself down the barrel, metal or metal,
10:06
Speaker 1: it makes a mark on the bullet. And only one
10:11
Speaker 1: gun has those defective marks on the inside. Does that
10:15
Speaker 1: make sense, Jackie? And so the bullet is branded scratched
10:22
Speaker 1: based on the inside of the barrel. Prime Stories with
10:40
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Now as Joe Scott so eagerly wants to
10:47
Speaker 1: tell us, and he's right, the bullet found between libbyan
10:52
Speaker 1: Abbey wasn't fired. It had been quote cycled through rich
11:00
Speaker 1: Allan's gun. Now Joe Scott explain how those marks can
11:06
Speaker 1: be on the shell having never been fired. There's two
11:11
Speaker 1: components inside of the slide of this weapon, this sixth hour.
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Speaker 1: They're called ejector and extractor. The extractor grabs the base
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Speaker 1: of the bullet, and like was said in the clip,
11:25
Speaker 1: this is soft metal, so you have these metal own
11:27
Speaker 1: metal contacts and they are unique to this weapon. So
11:30
Speaker 1: as this kind of claw reaches out and grabs the
11:33
Speaker 1: base of this round, it pulls it back. Well, as
11:36
Speaker 1: it's pulling it back, the ejector makes marks on the
11:40
Speaker 1: outer surface of this round and it throws it out
11:44
Speaker 1: to the side. You see this in movies a lot
11:47
Speaker 1: where people in a very menacing way, a very intimidating way,
11:51
Speaker 1: will pull that slide back in order to cycle the weapon.
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Speaker 1: It's what they're referring to where they eject around and
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Speaker 1: put a new one in there, okay, And it's kind
12:00
Speaker 1: of a menacing action to me when you see this.
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Speaker 1: What would be the purpose of ejecting a live round
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Speaker 1: and reinjecting a fresh round? And so that's what you're
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Speaker 1: doing with Those marks are unique to this six hour
12:13
Speaker 1: P two two six. One thing that people might not
12:16
Speaker 1: know about the P two two six guests who famously
12:18
Speaker 1: uses this weapon. The Navy Seals have used this for
12:21
Speaker 1: years and years. It's kind of a status thing. He
12:23
Speaker 1: apparently bought this in like two thousand and one. I believe,
12:26
Speaker 1: you know, Cheryl will call him. I'm thinking about what
12:29
Speaker 1: Jesscott Morgan just said about ejecting a bullet and putting
12:34
Speaker 1: another one in. Can't you just see him doing that
12:38
Speaker 1: to scare the girls? Well, I think we could almost
12:42
Speaker 1: know in our heart what he did, because if he
12:45
Speaker 1: had forgotten that he had already you know, racked that
12:47
Speaker 1: gun back. When he does it a second time, when
12:50
Speaker 1: that thing ejakes, it goes to the right and backed
12:53
Speaker 1: just a little bit. So you're talking about like a foot.
12:55
Speaker 1: So back to me, if that bullet is between victim
12:58
Speaker 1: one and victim two, it would appeared to me that
13:00
Speaker 1: he was pointing that gun at victim one, and I
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Speaker 1: believe that they were killed and they fell where they fell,
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Speaker 1: and as fate would have it, that bullet was right
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Speaker 1: there between them where he had obviously unintentionally left it
13:17
Speaker 1: when he basically re racked a sig. What an idiot
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Speaker 1: to leave it there. And to you, doctor Angela Arnold,
13:25
Speaker 1: for now psychologrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction
13:28
Speaker 1: at Angela Arnold MD dot com, Doctor Angie, he wouldn't
13:32
Speaker 1: have reracked if the girls were already dead. I guarantee
13:37
Speaker 1: you he re racked. And you usually think of reracking
13:40
Speaker 1: a shotgun, but as Jeff Scott described it, pulling out
13:46
Speaker 1: the chamber and putting a bullet in, and by doing that,
13:50
Speaker 1: one of the bullets came out, the bullet that was
13:53
Speaker 1: left behind, and by putting it in the chamber and
13:56
Speaker 1: racking it out, it left a mark. But my question,
14:00
Speaker 1: do you, doctor Angie, is the attempt to scare the
14:07
Speaker 1: girls even more to overpower them. He was trying to
14:11
Speaker 1: kidnap them and they wouldn't go along with it, and
14:15
Speaker 1: he did that to scare them. Wow. And that very act,
14:19
Speaker 1: that one thing is what got him caught I can't
14:22
Speaker 1: even imagine how scared those little girls must have been,
14:24
Speaker 1: can you, Nancy, No, I really can't. I really cannot
14:28
Speaker 1: imagine how they were feeling. For those of you just
14:32
Speaker 1: joining us Bottleshell in the release of documents joining me
14:36
Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams, Fox News national correspondent who has been in
14:41
Speaker 1: Delphi throughout this ordeal? What do you believe Alexis led
14:47
Speaker 1: the judge to finally unseal this problem caused affidavit. I
14:52
Speaker 1: think all the pressure and Nancy that was put on
14:54
Speaker 1: the judge and on Carroll County prosecutor into Sohole County
14:58
Speaker 1: by the media. There were so many people that were
15:01
Speaker 1: calling and asking for information and kept asking why why
15:05
Speaker 1: can't you put it out there? And there were some
15:07
Speaker 1: people that were saying that one of the reasons they
15:10
Speaker 1: didn't want this out there because Richard Allen's family had
15:13
Speaker 1: been given so many death threats, and that more specifically,
15:17
Speaker 1: they were going to have some information in there that
15:19
Speaker 1: let the public know that there was not just Richard
15:22
Speaker 1: Allen that was part of this, that they believed there
15:24
Speaker 1: was a second suspect. Wow, Alexis the possibility there's a
15:28
Speaker 1: second co defendant, And as of right now, everything's leading
15:33
Speaker 1: to Richard Allan alone that we know us, particularly this
15:38
Speaker 1: shell that matches up to his SIG's sour. And not
15:43
Speaker 1: only that, they tightened the news by questioning him about
15:48
Speaker 1: the gun. Take a listen to Bob Seagal. He told
15:51
Speaker 1: investigators he never allowed anyone to use or borrow that firearm.
15:56
Speaker 1: Investigators sent that gun to the Indiana State Police Rime
16:00
Speaker 1: Lab for analysis, and it was determined the unspent round
16:04
Speaker 1: located within two feet of Libby's body had been cycled
16:07
Speaker 1: through Richard M. Allen's gun. Then, on October twenty sixth,
16:12
Speaker 1: State police again spoke to Allan, and when asked about
16:15
Speaker 1: the unspent bullet, he did not have an explanation of
16:18
Speaker 1: why the bullet was found between the bodies. He again
16:21
Speaker 1: admitted that he was on the trail, but denied knowing
16:24
Speaker 1: Abbey or Libby and denied any involvement in their murders.
16:28
Speaker 1: One day later, Allen was charged with two counts of murder,
16:32
Speaker 1: joining me former Deputy States Attorney in Calvert County, former
16:36
Speaker 1: Assistant States Attorney and Prince George specializing and child abe
16:41
Speaker 1: sex offenses, and homicide fran Longwell fran They really got
16:47
Speaker 1: him good right there, Fran. Because normally in court or
16:52
Speaker 1: in statement, as you ask a defendant, well what about
16:56
Speaker 1: this gun, and they'll say, oh, yeah, it was stolen.
17:01
Speaker 1: I did not have it at the time with the murders,
17:03
Speaker 1: that I didn't have that, you know, trying to distance
17:09
Speaker 1: themselves from the weapon at the time of the incident.
17:11
Speaker 1: Or they'll say, oh, yeah, you know what, I lost it.
17:14
Speaker 1: I had it in my car and I had my
17:17
Speaker 1: car unlocked, and blah blah blah, blah blah, some way
17:23
Speaker 1: to suggest they did not have the gun in their
17:26
Speaker 1: possession at the time of the incident. But they go
17:28
Speaker 1: back when they're honing in on this gun, they go
17:32
Speaker 1: back and he tells them, oh, no, I never let
17:35
Speaker 1: anybody else use or borrow this weapon. I keep it
17:38
Speaker 1: in my possession. He's dead in the water. I think
17:42
Speaker 1: he totally hung himself on that. I think at this
17:45
Speaker 1: point he may not know that they had that casey,
17:48
Speaker 1: that they had it the bullet recovered from the scene.
17:51
Speaker 1: He might not have known that. Oh that's smart. Yeah, right,
17:55
Speaker 1: So he's going to say, even like in the beginning,
17:57
Speaker 1: he had missed he's on he misshs out there, or
18:00
Speaker 1: he admits he was on the walkway, he admits that
18:03
Speaker 1: he sees these three girls. He has to admit to
18:06
Speaker 1: those things to put him. He knows he's there, He's
18:08
Speaker 1: got himself put there. But he could explain away why
18:13
Speaker 1: these people thought it was him. I think he just
18:16
Speaker 1: didn't know that the bullet was recovered. So Cheryl mccollin
18:19
Speaker 1: joining me, forensic expert, founder of the Cold Case Research Institute.
18:22
Speaker 1: You can find her at coldcase crimes dot org on
18:26
Speaker 1: at cold Case Tips. Cheryl, that is so insightful what
18:32
Speaker 1: she fran Longwell just said. And another reason we're saying,
18:35
Speaker 1: why didn't you arrest him earlier? You knew about him,
18:38
Speaker 1: you talked to him right after the incident, because without
18:41
Speaker 1: that bullet being tracked back to his gun, and he
18:46
Speaker 1: didn't know it was there, he didn't realize he had
18:48
Speaker 1: left it. I bet you anything, if he had realized
18:51
Speaker 1: what he had done by leaving that evidence there, he
18:54
Speaker 1: would have long gotten rid of that gun most likely.
18:57
Speaker 1: But Nancy, again, I think it's important for us to
19:00
Speaker 1: talk about we don't know how they were killed. Yet
19:03
Speaker 1: it might not have been with a gun, So he
19:05
Speaker 1: had no reason to think the gun was involved at all,
19:07
Speaker 1: other than to control them or intimidate them. They could
19:11
Speaker 1: have been killed with another weapon, because to our knowledge,
19:14
Speaker 1: nobody claimed to hear any gunshots or anything like. Do
19:17
Speaker 1: not believe they were shot, Sheryl McCallum. I think you're right,
19:20
Speaker 1: because we'd have an actual bullet that had been fired
19:25
Speaker 1: from the gun, but we don't have that. We have
19:28
Speaker 1: this one that was cycled through. It wasn't fired, that's right.
19:31
Speaker 1: But even if he racked it and fired again or
19:34
Speaker 1: you know later, he couldn't have collected those bullets as well,
19:38
Speaker 1: and so he would have probably gotten rid of that gun.
19:39
Speaker 1: But to me, you know, you can't out run a gun,
19:42
Speaker 1: but you can might, you know, try to outrun a knife.
19:44
Speaker 1: It seems like to me that was for control, to
19:47
Speaker 1: get them to do what he wanted them to do. So,
19:49
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, how do you think it played out? Why
19:52
Speaker 1: was this shell found on the ground between the two girls.
19:56
Speaker 1: My suspicion, Nancy at this point is that when they
19:59
Speaker 1: went out there, I don't know that they found a
20:02
Speaker 1: round while the bodies were there. They went over the
20:06
Speaker 1: scene with a fine tooth comb and one of the
20:07
Speaker 1: things and Cheryl can attested this. One of the things
20:09
Speaker 1: if you have like leaves on the ground, particularly in
20:12
Speaker 1: a wooded area, those bullets will roll around many times.
20:15
Speaker 1: And they probably went over the area with a metal detector,
20:18
Speaker 1: I would imagine, and they could have found it down
20:21
Speaker 1: there specifically. And the orientation of the scene is very
20:26
Speaker 1: very interesting because there would have been other forensic evidence,
20:29
Speaker 1: perhaps blood, that was surrounding this particular area. Remember they're
20:33
Speaker 1: talking that this bullet is in very very close proximity
20:36
Speaker 1: to both these two babies bodies. So back to my question,
20:40
Speaker 1: how do you think it played out? How do you
20:43
Speaker 1: do that jump in? Yeah? How did shell land there?
20:45
Speaker 1: What do you think he was doing? I think he
20:47
Speaker 1: was either scaring them, intimidating them, or playing something out
20:52
Speaker 1: in his head while they laid there. I think this
20:55
Speaker 1: was for his own gratification. And like you and I
20:59
Speaker 1: have talked about before, there is no way Libby decided
21:04
Speaker 1: to videotate somebody from a distance. Something overtly happened for
21:09
Speaker 1: her to do that. Well, not only is the shell
21:12
Speaker 1: leading directly to his SIG two twenty six, he places
21:19
Speaker 1: himself there, does the name Scott Peterson at Ringabell. Yes,
21:22
Speaker 1: I know there has been a documentary on cable TV
21:28
Speaker 1: claiming Peterson's innocent. I know that, and I know I'm
21:32
Speaker 1: in it, and I know they burn me at the
21:33
Speaker 1: steak you know what, have at it. He places himself
21:37
Speaker 1: at the scene. Peterson placed himself at the marina and
21:41
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay. The day Lacy goes missing, her
21:44
Speaker 1: body is found out in the San Francisco Bay. It
21:48
Speaker 1: washes up. Same thing here Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
22:10
Speaker 1: Alan places himself there at the bridge, wearing the same
22:14
Speaker 1: outfit that's in the video in the picture the girls took.
22:18
Speaker 1: Take a Listen to our friens a WTHR. Last month,
22:21
Speaker 1: on October thirteenth, investigators interviewed Alan again. According to the PC,
22:26
Speaker 1: Alan again said he was on the moon on High
22:28
Speaker 1: Bridge to watch the fish. He said he parked his
22:31
Speaker 1: car on the side of an old building and was
22:34
Speaker 1: wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carthart jacket
22:37
Speaker 1: with a hood. Investigators say that matches the clothes worn
22:41
Speaker 1: by the man who Libby captured in this video. On
22:44
Speaker 1: the day of the murder last month, Alan also told
22:47
Speaker 1: investigators he owns firearms. That same day, police executed a
22:52
Speaker 1: search warrant at his Delphi home and recovered jackets, boots, knives,
22:56
Speaker 1: and firearms, including a sig Soour Model P two twenty
23:00
Speaker 1: six forty caliber pistol. He doesn't just place himself there,
23:05
Speaker 1: and of all things, did I understand that correctly, Alexis
23:08
Speaker 1: McAdams joining us from Fox News. Did he actually say
23:13
Speaker 1: he was on the bridge looking at fish? That's right? Yeah,
23:17
Speaker 1: he said he was on the bridge out there just
23:19
Speaker 1: taking in nature and looking at the fish. And when
23:23
Speaker 1: day after m if he saw anybody out there with
23:25
Speaker 1: a group of young girls, he goes, yeah, i'd stop
23:26
Speaker 1: you girls that I didn't pay much attention if I
23:28
Speaker 1: was looking down at my phone, I thought I was
23:30
Speaker 1: looking at the fish. He said he was looking at
23:32
Speaker 1: the fish. Then he was looking at the phone. He
23:34
Speaker 1: told him about to give her back, you know, amost
23:36
Speaker 1: six years ago. Now it's I guess. Then he edited
23:38
Speaker 1: in the fish back in October, looking at fish. Oh,
23:42
Speaker 1: can I please jump in? Go ahead. This is not
23:46
Speaker 1: a fit, dude. This is not a hiker. There is
23:51
Speaker 1: no way. Did he parked down the street at an
23:56
Speaker 1: abandoned building and then decide to go on a hike
23:59
Speaker 1: and look at nay, no, no no, no, no, not just nature.
24:02
Speaker 1: He wanted to look at fish clear, fish very clear.
24:05
Speaker 1: There's no way. Boy, they're on that tall bridge. How
24:08
Speaker 1: tall is that bridge? Joe Scott, Thank you, Joe Scott.
24:13
Speaker 1: Morgan Jackie says sixty three half yeah, he must have
24:16
Speaker 1: a really good eyesight to look down into the water
24:19
Speaker 1: from sixty three feet. Second, Thomas Bridge and Indiana second,
24:23
Speaker 1: thank you, Jackie, Joe Scott. She's totally stealing your thunder
24:27
Speaker 1: and she is mean and too. But guys, he doesn't
24:30
Speaker 1: just place. She doesn't. He doesn't just place himself there.
24:34
Speaker 1: Witnesses place him. They're taking listen to our friends w DRB.
24:39
Speaker 1: Kind of creepy. That's how three juveniles described a man
24:42
Speaker 1: they walk past on the trail near montin high Bridge
24:45
Speaker 1: on February thirteenth, twenty seventeen. That same afternoon, fourteen year
24:50
Speaker 1: old Libby German and thirteen year old Abbey Williams disappeared
24:54
Speaker 1: a probably cause Affidavid unsealed today says. Cell Phone video
24:58
Speaker 1: recovered from one victim shows Williams and Germans encountering a
25:02
Speaker 1: man wearing a dark jacket and jeans who ordered guys
25:06
Speaker 1: get down the hill near the end of the footage.
25:09
Speaker 1: This probable cause affidavit lays out that Alan places himself
25:15
Speaker 1: at the saying of the double murder of these two
25:17
Speaker 1: little girls. Witnesses place a man looking like him, wearing
25:21
Speaker 1: the clothes he describes he's wearing, and there's more. Take
25:26
Speaker 1: a list of Fox fifty nine and wr The PC
25:30
Speaker 1: also lists a witness whose name has been redacted, who
25:33
Speaker 1: told investigators that she saw someone who matched Alan's description
25:37
Speaker 1: walking away from the bridge, and his clothes were quote
25:40
Speaker 1: muddy and bloody. It appeared he had gotten into a fight.
25:44
Speaker 1: A probable cause affidavit only needs to present enough evidence
25:48
Speaker 1: to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant, not
25:51
Speaker 1: necessarily enough to score a conviction. And they're not releasing
25:54
Speaker 1: very much information at all. They released just enough in
25:57
Speaker 1: the probable cause to show that they had a valid
26:00
Speaker 1: reason to arrest him. They didn't put anything else in
26:02
Speaker 1: the provocast. Carol County Prosecutor Nicholas mcleland told the court
26:07
Speaker 1: last week that to release the probable cause could jeopardize
26:10
Speaker 1: the case, and that he thought someone else was involved
26:13
Speaker 1: in the killings. Acclaim. Former IPD homicide commander Robert Snow
26:17
Speaker 1: says the redacted PC doesn't back up when I read
26:21
Speaker 1: the prova cost No, I didn't see anything that would
26:24
Speaker 1: implicate another person. No. Investigators say they think Richard Allen
26:29
Speaker 1: is the man in the video captured on Livy's cell phone.
26:33
Speaker 1: Have they matched that voice to his We don't know.
26:35
Speaker 1: And again, there's no explanation why Allen is charged with
26:39
Speaker 1: felony murder instead of murder. If he's charged with felly murder,
26:43
Speaker 1: someone else was also involved in the case. That's what
26:46
Speaker 1: you know makes me believe there is someone else involved
26:48
Speaker 1: in the case. So you've got a list of witnesses
26:51
Speaker 1: who tell investigators they see a guy matching Alan's description
26:56
Speaker 1: muddy and bloody. Okay, straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum.
27:02
Speaker 1: Does that mean it means he didn't shoot him. It
27:05
Speaker 1: means he probably used a straight edge weapon. It means
27:08
Speaker 1: that's where the staging comes in. That we know from
27:10
Speaker 1: the FDI information he positioned them. He staged them. He's
27:16
Speaker 1: spent over an hour and twenty one minutes from when
27:21
Speaker 1: he was seen on the bridge and when he was
27:23
Speaker 1: seen with his bloody jeans. So from two fourteen to
27:27
Speaker 1: three thirty five is when this whole crime occurred. It
27:31
Speaker 1: doesn't take an hour in twenty one minutes to kill
27:34
Speaker 1: two people, so he spent a lot of time there.
27:37
Speaker 1: That's probably when he did the staging, took the souvenirs
27:41
Speaker 1: and did whatever he did to them, which was for
27:44
Speaker 1: his own gratification. Relative to this muddy and bloody contexts
27:49
Speaker 1: the statement, it's important to understand that even if he
27:53
Speaker 1: destroyed those clothes, which there's a chance that he did,
27:57
Speaker 1: that he was wearing, this is very intimate and he
28:00
Speaker 1: will have transferred his own unique evidence to these bodies
28:05
Speaker 1: perhaps and that can be a tie back to him
28:08
Speaker 1: and the bodies. We don't know that yet. But because
28:11
Speaker 1: he had this contact trace evidence on him perd this witness,
28:15
Speaker 1: if that's the case, that's going to be significant here.
28:18
Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams mentioned earlier the specter of a co defendant.
28:24
Speaker 1: Now you're hearing a homicide detective state that because he's
28:29
Speaker 1: charged with felony murder, that makes the detective suspect there
28:34
Speaker 1: is another person involved. I don't necessarily see that unless
28:39
Speaker 1: the person was helping to cover up. But take a
28:43
Speaker 1: listen now to our cut ninetyr. So his clothes, his car,
28:47
Speaker 1: his gun, investigators say all of them point to Richard Allen. Now,
28:52
Speaker 1: this document references a lot of witnesses who say they
28:55
Speaker 1: think they saw the killer on the trail or near
28:58
Speaker 1: the bridge on the day of the murders. One witness
29:01
Speaker 1: reported seeing a man walking away from the area with
29:04
Speaker 1: clothes that were muddy and bloody. Another important point to
29:08
Speaker 1: here that we want to point out. This document mentions
29:11
Speaker 1: only Alan as being involved in the crime. But remember
29:15
Speaker 1: last week in court we heard the prosecutors say that
29:17
Speaker 1: another person could be involved as well. Straight out to
29:21
Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams, what do you make of that another person involved,
29:26
Speaker 1: not just Alan? Yeah, I mean that's something that they
29:29
Speaker 1: had mentioned possibly in the very beginning when we had
29:32
Speaker 1: talked to different investigators, both on camera and off camera
29:35
Speaker 1: over time. The main question was how do you get
29:37
Speaker 1: two girls down the hill without them fighting back, Which
29:40
Speaker 1: is where the gun had kind of come in in
29:42
Speaker 1: the past, where people tried to really zoom in Nancy
29:44
Speaker 1: and trying to see on that video clip and that
29:47
Speaker 1: picture that was blurry, if the man who had his
29:49
Speaker 1: head down walking had anything in his pocket or in
29:51
Speaker 1: his jacket there that could have forced those girls down
29:55
Speaker 1: the hill there, and now we're trying to learn still
29:58
Speaker 1: more about who this other person could be, and the
30:01
Speaker 1: court documents that were released. These girls who were out
30:04
Speaker 1: there that day, same age as that Gabby and Libby,
30:06
Speaker 1: on a day off from school, having fun near the bridge,
30:09
Speaker 1: said they saw a man wearing all blue, like a
30:11
Speaker 1: duck canvas type jacket. His head down wasn't friendly. They
30:14
Speaker 1: called him creepy. But if you go down a little bit.
30:16
Speaker 1: There was another girl who said there was a man
30:19
Speaker 1: not very tall with a bigger build, about five ten.
30:21
Speaker 1: Said he was wearing a black hoodie, black jeans, and
30:24
Speaker 1: black boots with his hands in his pocket. So that's
30:26
Speaker 1: a completely different description. And then you think back too.
30:29
Speaker 1: They've released two sketches, one that looks a lot like
30:32
Speaker 1: Allen and one that looks like a younger man that
30:35
Speaker 1: isn't anybody who's in custody yet, so there's unanswered questions there.
30:39
Speaker 1: To talk to. Angela Arnold, I find it really hard
30:40
Speaker 1: to believe that you could get another guy in town
30:44
Speaker 1: to go along with what I believe to be the
30:47
Speaker 1: intended sex attack, kidnap, and ultimately martyr of two little girls,
30:52
Speaker 1: and that being kept a secret. I find that really
30:55
Speaker 1: hard to believe. Oh. I completely agree with you, Nancy,
30:58
Speaker 1: because what do people do. People talk and people brag.
31:03
Speaker 1: There is no way I'm going out on a limb here.
31:06
Speaker 1: But I don't think I completely route you. I do
31:09
Speaker 1: not think there's any way that someone else was involved
31:11
Speaker 1: in the And if there was someone else, then why
31:14
Speaker 1: didn't they think then? Why it didn't people see somebody
31:16
Speaker 1: else when they saw him when he was all bloodied
31:19
Speaker 1: and coming up from out of there. You know, I'm
31:21
Speaker 1: also curious about something in that. Alexis McAdams also mentioned
31:26
Speaker 1: Shery McCollum the way that a car matching the description
31:30
Speaker 1: of his car was parked in an odd like a
31:34
Speaker 1: Batman cade way, where the tag was obscure, where no
31:39
Speaker 1: one could see the tag. It was his car, tucked
31:42
Speaker 1: away and hidden near the scene of the murders. Right
31:45
Speaker 1: and again, Nancy, this is not what you would do
31:49
Speaker 1: if you were headed to hike. That was my point earlier.
31:52
Speaker 1: Nobody said hike. He said he was looking at fish,
31:56
Speaker 1: which even is even more absurd. It is absurd. But
31:59
Speaker 1: even to get there, if you park in the parking lot,
32:02
Speaker 1: you've still got a pretty good track to get to
32:04
Speaker 1: the bridge, is what I'm saying. He wouldn't have made
32:06
Speaker 1: it more difficult for himself and much further to get there,
32:10
Speaker 1: much less hide in his tag trying to shield people
32:13
Speaker 1: from seeing his car as they drive by, because if
32:16
Speaker 1: you park at an angle like that and you're driving
32:18
Speaker 1: down the street, you wouldn't see it hardly at all.
32:20
Speaker 1: So we're lucky we even have that, you know, Fran
32:23
Speaker 1: Longwell joining me, former Deputy State's Attorney and former assistant
32:27
Speaker 1: State's Attorney, Fran Longwell. A probable cause affidavit is bare bones.
32:35
Speaker 1: It's just enough to get the search or the arrest warrant.
32:40
Speaker 1: That's all it is. Otherwise a jury trial would last
32:43
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes if everything that you show the jury
32:48
Speaker 1: was in the PC. I mean, this is just the
32:51
Speaker 1: beginning of what we're gonna learn, Fran, That's exactly true.
32:56
Speaker 1: And I'm concerned because they had arrested a guy last December,
33:01
Speaker 1: and they had arrested him right after the incident, someone
33:03
Speaker 1: who had an instant Instagram account where he had a
33:06
Speaker 1: fake Instagram account and admitted to talking to Libby that
33:09
Speaker 1: morning and trying to arrange to meet with her on
33:13
Speaker 1: the bridge. So was he the other person involved. It's
33:17
Speaker 1: very possible that he was. And if he was with
33:21
Speaker 1: the other guy, he would be the one that would
33:24
Speaker 1: lure them to the bridge, So he knew when he
33:26
Speaker 1: got there at one thirty that those girls were going
33:29
Speaker 1: to be on the bridge at that time to meet
33:31
Speaker 1: with this guy. I'm expecting a lot more to come
33:34
Speaker 1: out at trial. Alexis McAdams. He's been charged with felony murder,
33:40
Speaker 1: which very simply put means that a death occurred during
33:45
Speaker 1: a felony. In this case, I assume that underlying felony
33:49
Speaker 1: is kidnapped. Although he's not specifically charged with kidnap, is
33:53
Speaker 1: he No way, they haven't mentioned anything about that. If
33:56
Speaker 1: you charge felony murder, you don't have to charge the
33:58
Speaker 1: underlying crime. That's the advantage of charging it. Yeah, you
34:02
Speaker 1: proved it, but you don't have to charge it. You're
34:04
Speaker 1: absolutely correct, and I've been dumfounded that he was not
34:08
Speaker 1: charged with kidnapping fran because, of course, kidnapping does not
34:12
Speaker 1: mean you have to put somebody in your car trunk
34:14
Speaker 1: and drive him sixty miles away and keep them hidden
34:16
Speaker 1: in a hotel or in a dungeon. You can move
34:20
Speaker 1: your victim a foot is called asportation, or one hundred
34:26
Speaker 1: miles if they're moved at all, for instance, from that
34:29
Speaker 1: bridge down to the bottom of the bridge. That's asportation
34:32
Speaker 1: under the law. But he's not charged with kidnapping. And
34:34
Speaker 1: speaking of another legal hurdle, now there's a request for
34:38
Speaker 1: a change a venue, which, believe it or not, I
34:41
Speaker 1: agree with the defense. There should be a change of venue.
34:44
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ninety five WLFY. Allen's
34:47
Speaker 1: attorneys also asked for a change of venue. They asked
34:50
Speaker 1: if the trail be moved somewhere at least one hundred
34:53
Speaker 1: and fifty miles away from Carroll County. Attorneys Andrew Baldwin
34:58
Speaker 1: and Brad Rosie say the publicity the case has gotten
35:01
Speaker 1: and the small population of Carroll County would make it
35:04
Speaker 1: impossible to find jurors without a connection to the case
35:08
Speaker 1: or ideas about Allen's innocence or gil. I fully expect
35:12
Speaker 1: the change of venue, but the families of Libby and
35:16
Speaker 1: Abbey are wondering what took so long? Take a less
35:20
Speaker 1: an hour cut in ninety eight from NBC investigators first
35:23
Speaker 1: spoke to Richard Allen back in twenty seventeen, and at
35:26
Speaker 1: that time, Allan told investigators he was on the trails
35:30
Speaker 1: by the Moon on high Bridge between one thirty and
35:33
Speaker 1: three thirty on the day of the murders. The PC
35:36
Speaker 1: did not say why investigators spoke to him back in
35:39
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Then last month, on October thirteenth, investigators interviewed
35:44
Speaker 1: Allen again. According to the PC, Alan again said he
35:48
Speaker 1: was on the Moon on high Bridge to watch the fish.
35:51
Speaker 1: He said he parked his car on the side of
35:53
Speaker 1: an old building and was wearing blue jeans and a
35:56
Speaker 1: blue or black Carthart jacket with a hood. Investigators say
36:00
Speaker 1: that matches the clothes worn by the man who Libby
36:03
Speaker 1: captured in this video on the day of the murder.
36:06
Speaker 1: What happened between the time they spoke to him for
36:10
Speaker 1: the first time in twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two, Who,
36:16
Speaker 1: if anyone else is involved in the double murders of
36:23
Speaker 1: these two little girls on the bridge in Delphi. We
36:29
Speaker 1: wait as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing
36:34
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,