Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 387 - The Myth of “My Truth”: How Postmodernism Is Devouring a Generation

Transcript

Ep. 387 - The Myth of “My Truth”: How Postmodernism Is Devouring a Generation · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Ray, I was thinking about that, like the offensiveness of truth.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: It really all does come down to sin, doesn't it?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like people are ultimately offended because what you're telling them deals with sin, whether it's their rejection of God or it's their violation of the commandments.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm thinking, imagine if you remove the element of sin from it all.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we'd be in Eden still, but but that really is at the core of it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: That is the greatest offense of man.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: You're telling me I'm wrong, or you're telling me I'm a sinner.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm good.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: A man sees himself as being on the throne.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's the one with authority.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, the commandments were written in stone with the finger of God.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: They're not going to change.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: They're written on your heart via your conscience, and you can see that, but you're not going to see her.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: That law, it's permanent.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's around.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're not going to get away with it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody's going to get away with a thing, and that's what's offensive.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Steens from this morning's Musings from the Brain of the Insane Zwain.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oscar Navarro.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Doing laps in a swimming pool full of coffee.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Ray Comfort tunneling through a loaf of sourdough bread the size of a bust.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: How's that sound, right?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Love it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: I could see it.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: Mark Spent, hula hooping while bouncing on a pogo stick.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I could see that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, what I'd give to see that, Mark.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us again, what was your record?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh boy, I don't know.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: It was it was like 10 hours or so.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's just stupid.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: Did I ever tell you about the time when I worked at Mimi's Cafe and I had to wear this bow tie and this cumber bun?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Really nice.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I I lived probably about four miles away from where I actually worked.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I got dropped off at work and I failed to bring a backup set of clothes to ride home.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: So I went inside of uh Marshall's, which was right next to the place, and I picked up a pair of shorts and I rode home in those shorts.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_05: And when I got home, I found out that they were not shorts, they were shorty pajamas.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so are you kidding?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: Were they really?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: So I wore these shorty pajamas all the way home.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, Mark, did you actually say cumber bun?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Cumberbun.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Remember cumberbuns?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what we had to wear.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: They wear them anymore, cumber buns?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: No, I don't think so.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, cumber buns.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: I can see Oscar getting back into Cumberbun.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: With grandma's sweater.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: So what's a cumber bun?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: Cumberbun?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: What is it what is it?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's supposed to receive, uh take your crumbs and stuff so it doesn't go on your lap.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: Stop.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think that's the worst.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: That really was.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: You mean it's like a kangaroo pocket.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's uh, you know those things.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: It goes around your waist when you wear a tuxedo.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and they go up.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: They don't do them anymore.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: The etymology of cumber bun is cumber, a cucumber made of lumber in a bun.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Mr.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_05: etymologist.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_05: Mr.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_05: Cumberbun.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_05: Strange fire.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Guys, what's but seriously that's strange.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I want to know.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Who was the first person to do a hula hoop?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_05: Joe.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_05: Mark, would you ever do a hula hoop?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_05: I I can't do it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_05: I've tried.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: No, I did.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: I went into Oscar's office.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: I grabbed the one out of his closet and I said, I think I could have a closet.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: The one with sparkles on it?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: You weren't supposed to use that one.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'd seriously, I'd love to see Mark trying to do a hula hoop.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: It would really be a sight.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: I can't move my hips like that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: So stupid.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: That is totally your culture, though.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: Lebanon?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: Belly dancing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: I guess it is.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's why they could do it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: How often do you belly dance, easy?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh like nightly.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Did you force Rachel to learn how to do that?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: We do it before family devotions every night.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: Force what?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: Did you force Rachel to learn how to do that?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh god.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: God forbid.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um first person was in Australia and it was uh made of cane.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Cumberbine?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, bamboo, sorry.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Bamboo in Australia.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then some something called WAMO produced 25 million in just a few months.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Someone called WAMO?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: You mean the toy code?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, hula hoop was in Australia?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was made of bamboo.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, then I want to see Kent Ham do it.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: 1958 is when it kind of started.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Ah.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get into it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And for our listeners who don't know, Ken Ham is easy's pet pig.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Porky.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, oh, I saw something.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta bring this up because you guys gotta see this.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: I came across this and it was brilliant.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: There should be a rule about using your phones during the day.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know it's impossible to say good I might?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like good and then I and then you know with all your might.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: Good I might.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: Good I might without sounding Australian.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: Try it, Oscar.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Good I might.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_04: Might.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_04: Ah, nice try.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: No, he did it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_05: What do you mean, nice try?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_05: Good I might.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_05: No, that's that's the throwing in the accent.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: He for sure did it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: Good I might.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Spirit of nausea just came on me.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Might.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Australian.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's horrible.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Good eye, might.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: Good eye might.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: Boy.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, I just kind of notification.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Our listeners are plummeting.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: A listener.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Good eye might.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, friends, uh today we have a special guest here in the studio, Robert Douglas, the 45th.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: What is it about adding numbers that makes someone's name?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is he really the 45th?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Rob Douglas.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we go way back.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: Way back.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: First name Rob, last name Douglas.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: Give him a teddy bear and tell him, yo, snuggle this.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: So we went to Bible college together, uh, Rob and I.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_05: And no, not you.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_05: You said you'd never attend.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: But no way.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody coveted Rob's bunk.
• 6:51
  unknown: Why?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: Because he's Mr.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: MacGyver.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_05: He had a coffee machine with a light switch and lights, and he totally decked out his bunk because he is Mr.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: McGyver.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: He can figure out anything.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, Rob was.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Seriously, Rob.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he was always a techie guy.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, I remember Rob from high school because he'd cruise around on his uh his Harley Mohawk.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: You serious?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: Funny.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: That was yesterday.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: He's a cool dude.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, we go way back, pastored together back in the day.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: So he's here today observing how to do a podcast, which, based on how we opened today, how not to do podcasts.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_04: How not to do it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, but Rob's uh such a blessing.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I don't care about Rob.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: All right, friends, time for a cool classy comment.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: Where is it?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: Here it is.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh oh, by the way, Rob's son, shout out to Judah Douglas, who listens regularly.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: He's still listening, Rob?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: Rob hears it blaring through his house every day.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Judah, where where do these families get these names from?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Judah, whatever.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_05: Have Judah been her?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh sh uh from uh Anna, boy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Dear, easy, Ray, Mark, and Oscar.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: My mom recommended listening to the podcast almost two years ago.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want to give something so impactful a try.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know yet know it yet.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: I listened to sermons, kept reading the word, and went to church, but I felt a gap I absolutely hated.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: I knew that gap was me needing God, almost forgetting who I was created for.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Listening to every episode has helped me so much from these past eight years of heartbreak, slight depression, frustration, trauma in life, and my mock with God.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: I was eight when I repented.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: I felt like I was alone.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I was eight when I repented, but while I truly knew I needed him, when I truly knew I needed him, I was 16.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: And during that, I felt like I was alone, needed to be tough, and there wasn't any good outcome in life, no matter what.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: He has shown and taught me so much through each of your episodes.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: But finding beauty and brokenness episode was a breakthrough.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: And that I knew I was kneeling before my heavenly father.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm 18 now and I can't wait to be with him for eternity.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because of God, I have a testimony, and he has used the four of you to be a part of it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: After everything, after everything, this uh struck stuck with me.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: He he thanked God and took courage.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: Acts 28, 15.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Easy Ray, Mark, and Oscar for not giving up and seeking him through it all, even through the hard conversations and presentations.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: Your sister in Christ, Anna, boy.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: Luke 27 39, uh 2037 to 39, my life verse that my parents gave me.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that that was Julia's episode, but Julia was was in.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's right.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: What's the name of her book?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um Yeah, your daughter things that she wrote.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: Broken and beautiful.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, broken and beautiful.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: All things broken and beautiful.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: It is a beautiful book.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: It really is, man.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: I was talking to someone yesterday and telling them when which I talked about on the episode, the day that I realized that the student, because I, you know, taught her stuff about poetry, had exceeded her teacher.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's not that hard.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, she was three years old when it happened.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: The roses are red while it's blue.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: You love me, I don't love you.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: Not too good.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, true.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Freddy have any answer.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, a shout out, shout out, ha, Oscar didn't see it, to our friends in Belize.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: Living Waters podcast, the number eight.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Top.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Chris.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: That is the unbelievable country.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Beleza.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, unbelievable.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's hard to believe.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: Douglas has been a Belize.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Rob, you've been to Belize, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we got homies in Belize.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: So shout out to our Belizean brethren.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: We got to get out there too.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Of course you do.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: We go for 28 days.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: What's that?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: Go for 28 days.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: Never.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Belizean?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Are they?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_04: Are they called Belizeans?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: Rob Belians?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Rob knows.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: There's believers in Belize.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Believers in Belizean Belize.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: All right, friends.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And now radically revolutionary resources podcast is breaking.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: My comfort is Jesus.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: 365, 365 day devotions for morning and evening.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: This morning, Ray, I recommended it to a friend.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then I went in and I well, I called you and I asked you some questions about it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: But what I love about it is it has a it has a Bible reading plan, but it's got uh it's got Old Testament in the morning, New Testament in the evening, plus Psalms.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: Did you remember that, Ray?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Remember what?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: That it had that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, because you couldn't even tell me what I called you.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But do you know who wrote the book for Jesus?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us about it, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's a devotion, a devotional, 365 daily devotional in the mornings, Old Testament, and the New Testament is in the evenings.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't it funny though, Ray, that like when you were writing that thing, and you're talking what, uh, 730 or whatever.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: So, but when you were doing it, it was all consuming, all you could think about.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Now you just hardly remember it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's forgetting that which is behind.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's Ray's life.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: Move on to the next thing.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, friends, check it out.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget the Living Waters mug, the Evidence Study Bible, Living Waters TV, all at Living Waters.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel where there are tens of thousands of subscribers.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: Check it out.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_04: All right, guys, today we're talking about the myth of 1.6 million subscribers.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: What'd I say?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Tens of thousands.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking about the podcast YouTube channel.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: You aren't listening.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: Did you get offended?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we've got a podcast on YouTube.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: Podcast?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's on YouTube.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Someone hit the uh the trapdoor button, please.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, Mark, why are you so lowly today?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: He reset.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_05: No, I reset.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you did?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was like this.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: You need some coffee easy.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: I did just for Ray.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_05: But I came back up.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: What a humble guy.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: That is so nice.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: You still look lower than usual, no?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm not on a cushion like you guys.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: The myth of the mo the myth of my my truth.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: How postmodernism is devouring a generation.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, guys, um it's all about feelings.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and feelings becoming sacred while truth has become offensive.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Feelings.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Feelings.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that was coming.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I saw his head click into it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh no, here we go.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was waiting.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Is there something that I do before?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little spark of like excitement.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: More than feelings.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, we get a lot of demands that I sing on this podcast.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: From you.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Mark's my only senior.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_05: I will always be your backup student.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, guys.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um you know, haven't thought about it yet.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: My truth.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: No, but but listen.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: How many times is it?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: It's like you're reaching for it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's just not there.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's why?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's further away the older.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: But like I know it's there, but it's not there yet, but I know it's coming.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_05: Because we keep interrupting your sanity with our insanity.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: As you get older, that is further and further away.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've noticed it's longer.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but speaking of true, my truth, I I don't know how you guys feel.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: That I don't know what it is about that phrase.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: It drives me nuts.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: But it's become common.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, I just don't let me share with you my truth.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: What's that mean?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Give me insight, guys.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: Like what's yeah, Mark, you go.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_05: My truth is just a denial of the truth.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: No, I mean that really that that's it, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_05: Because when we start talking about truth, we I guess we'd have to properly define that, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um because there are subjective truths that are true.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: You you like chocolate ice cream, I like vanilla ice cream.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_05: It is true that you like chocolate ice cream.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's a good point.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_05: But there are truths when we start talking, when we bring the scripture into it, or moral truths, these are objective, transcendent uh philosophical thoughts and ideas that represent uh a God who is transcendent, that and it never changes.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: So objective truth will never change.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: So when somebody comes along and says, I don't believe in truth, the response is simply, is that true?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_05: Is it true that there's no such thing as truth?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: And it becomes self-refuting, and they die on their own sword.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: So we we have to begin to explain what this means.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: I guess maybe uh dealing with postmodernism, postmodernism.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: Postmodernism.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um listen to this relativism, the philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid, and that all truth is relative to the individual.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: This means that all moral positions and all religious systems are defined by each individual, and there is no right or wrong answer to anything.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: So when Thomas Jefferson said we find these truths to be self-evident, maybe, maybe little asterisk attached to it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh he was referring to something that is outside of ourselves, that all men are created equal, and that all men are created in the image of God.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: And because of that, we are worthy of dignity, honor, and respect, regardless of your sexual orientation, regardless of your worldview, regardless of fill in the blank, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Very interesting that you brought that state that that quote up because there's a lot of debate as to why they changed it to self-evident, because self-evident actually makes the possibility for subjectivism.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So in Thomas Jefferson determining to write self-evident, he was actually being influenced by the Enlightenment era because self-evident means we've discovered this for ourselves rather than this has been assigned to us by God.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, it was a it was a air quote subjective choice for them to believe in self-evidence.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think it's helpful to take a step back and realize where we've come from.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the enlightenment era was a big influence on us even today.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Guys like Emmanuel Kant, I don't know that we realize how much of an influence they were on our language and what we think about.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a key phrase here to understand how we got to where we are is that in the Enlightenment era, they wanted to replace revelation for reason.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is predating the Enlightenment era, we understood that the best form of truth, of beauty, and goodness would be understood in a revelatory way.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: The ancients would look to transcendence, whether it's God for the Christians or gods for the Greco-Romans, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: They would look beyond themselves to discover what is true, beautiful, and good, and then bring that about.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: In the Enlightenment era, they wanted to do away with that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want to have revelation as a source of authority, they wanted to have reason as a source of authority.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Emmanuel Kant's statement is this Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity, as he calls it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: The inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance, dare to know, uh, say per ade was like one of his big phrases.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have the courage to use your own understanding is therefore the motto of the enlightenment.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that that idea that that that is still embodied in the way a lot of people think.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: If I walk up to somebody and I say, it's not your truth, it's the truth, they're gonna look at me, and somewhere in the back of the minds, even if they've never read Emmanuel Kant, they're gonna think, dare to know.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are ignorant for assuming that you have to look to authority for truth when you can find your own truth.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there is that really important uh subtle lie that exists in our culture today, which leads us to this idea of self-evident knowledge, of knowing my truth over the reality that truth is actually revelatory beyond us.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But Ray, did you okay, you you grew up in well you stopped at 10.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, you grew up in the 60s, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Mainly would you teenager in the 60s?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so you have you noticed a shift?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because I I think there it's hard for me to imagine because I most of my adult life there's been an offensiveness when it comes to someone declaring absolute truth.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: Was it that way when you were growing up too?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think the Enlightenment era was the beginning of the dark ages intellectually.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: They just moved into embracing atheism, which is insane.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And when I meet someone who says, you know, there's no such thing as it's all my truth, I say, well, let's look at the sun right now.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: Don't really do it, because it'll blind you.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: And just say, I I believe the sun is square, it comes out at night and it's made of ice.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not going to change the sun.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: So what what matters is truth.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Your feelings don't matter.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And behind all this is the offense at God's moral government.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's behind it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: They don't want uh God to lord himself over them.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that the the the natural mind, um the carnal mind, is enmity against God is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if the commandments were written in stone, there's a God, there's a judgment day, and what you're doing with your life, you're gonna be held accountable.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's offensive.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what's behind it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: Ray, what I love is these simple illustrations that lead to impact.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that illustration about the sun being square made of ice comes out at night.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: I use that with a guy.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: You didn't know that?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: I use that with a guy named Davin that I witnessed to at Huntington.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think the the video has like half a million views on our YouTube channel.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_04: But he was going down that road.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: Truth is relative, and you know, so I said, Okay, the sun, he's and I and I go, and he goes, Well, well, you know, actually, and he goes, No, actually.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: He was seriously trying to defend it.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then he stops himself and he goes, Nah, you're right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but but I love that, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: Same thing, you know, with painting, painter, building, build.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're simple, but but they break through, you know.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, Oscar, here's the thing, because like I talked about how my truth drives me crazy.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: Your truth drives me crazy, too.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: The temptation though, is to let that frustration seep out when I'm talking to an unbeliever sometimes because it's so maddening to me.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: But how important though?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Perhaps if you just slap their face, it would let the ship.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: But be gentle, I do it.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, you know, just but Oscar, how important is uh our graciousness and our witness as God's people?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: Winsomeness.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: Some people hate that word.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: I like that word because I think that it ties in with a lot of biblical principles, but you've got that graciousness that we don't lose it, even when someone's being so illogical.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good point.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important our theology really matters here to recognize that if not for the grace of God, we would be blind to the truth as well.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, the difference between me and the person I'm sitting next to you trying to share the gospel with isn't that I am more enlightened than him and have figured out the truth.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go on some mystical journey and discover God.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: God interjected himself into my life.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am nothing but a beggar who has found food.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I'm pleading with somebody for truth, I'm not trying to hit them over the head because they're dumb and wrong.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I am talking to a blind man praying that a miracle of revelatory sight will come about in the conversation that I'm having with him.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_05: I remember talking to an atheist, and we were having a very cordial dialogue, but he was with another atheist who was not very nice.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_05: And that not very nice atheist came up and was joining, joined our conversation right when I was talking about the laws of logic.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_05: And this not very nice atheist said, There's no such thing as a law of logic.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, Oh, really?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_05: And I said something along the lines of, well, the red chair flies north when the time is purple, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: And he goes, What?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I go, exactly.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_05: So there's laws of logic that govern where we're at.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_05: I've always thought, and I you so I I've learned something here today, that we find these truths to be self-evident.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: I always thought that would mean that God has given us kind of like a conscience, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: That we're not saying that an atheist can't make moral decisions, but they can't account for why that it's moral.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: They can't account why something is logical, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: Two plus two is four.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: We're not saying that you cannot count, but you cannot account for counting, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_05: So we're not saying that you don't know two plus two is four, but where did that come from?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: Because man did not invent these laws of mathematics, man merely discovered it through the grace of God, giving that to all people, right?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: So the laws of logic, the laws of science, the laws of moral absolutes and mathematics.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: So when we begin to look at these different things, I thought that that self-evident was just innate, that God gave it to us.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_05: But you're saying that that self-evident is that we've looked within ourselves and we're saying no to any transcendent input.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be my own inputter.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is that right?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Self-evident can mean, I think we can use that term to mean what what you want it to mean, which is a biblical understanding that God has written his truth in all of our hearts.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's axiomatic.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Axiomatic.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to share that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: Except I think it's you feel good, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's so funny when politicians get up on a stage and start pointing at people.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like what they're saying, what they're saying, this is what they're trying to get up.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know that guy, he knows me.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: He knows me.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: Without saying in their mind, I haven't got a clue who you are, wouldn't have wouldn't have never seen you in my life, neither you.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, hey, there's a face.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's always the same.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a there's a face.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I think it's what I'm saying is Jefferson was influenced by the Enlightenment era.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there's actually some debate that in a first iteration, a first draft, he was going to use some phrase like quote from Dawkins.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: God ordained or God-given.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a God-given, maybe.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't don't quote me precisely on that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then he switched it to self-evident because it was more in line with enlightened thinking.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: That that really is definitely enlightening to me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Pardon the pun, because I I I always thought, you know, self-evident, yeah, like Ray said, axiomatic.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like these truths, the truths themselves are self-evident, meaning that they they don't need any affirmation from others.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: But you're saying that it it could or it definitely did have that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: During the Enlightenment period, self-evident was Emmanuel's can't way of rejecting revelation.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's interesting, you know, these little things, like you're quoting it thinking, oh yeah, self-evident, you know.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: And uh but I do think it's redeemable.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can say self-evident.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, but like I'm talking about intent.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, context.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: I never I never saw that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Cone with with text.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: Texting people.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: With texting.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, texting.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the shift is insane.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's how his brain actually works, too, by the way.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: The insane Zwain brain.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, Ray, I was thinking about that, like the offensiveness of truth.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: It really all does come down to sin, doesn't it?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like people are ultimately offended because what you're telling them deals with sin, whether it's their rejection of God or it's their violation of the commandments.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm thinking, imagine if you remove the element of sin from it all.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we'd be in Eden still, but but that really is at the core of it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: That is the greatest offense of man.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: You're telling me I'm wrong, or you're telling me I'm a sinner.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm good.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: A man sees himself as being being on the throne.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: He's the one with authority.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um sorry, the commandments were written in stone with the finger of God.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: They're not gonna change.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're written on your heart via your conscience, and you can sear that, but you're not gonna sear that law.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's permanent, it's it's around.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna get away with it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody's gonna get away with a thing, and that's what's offensive.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we have uh a gift of making simple things complex sometimes, but it really comes back.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: All this philosophy, this worldly philosophy, comes back to men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's just the basis.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, I had a when I was in Australia, we were doing QA, and someone asked a question of like, why, you know, why do people reject, you know, the truth of God?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I gave that answer, man, love darkness, rather, rather than light.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like we we hide that, we cover that, you know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: And but that at the end of the day is what it comes down to.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: The sinful nature is alive and well.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't matter how you dress it up, but you often talk about this, you know, the the whole dynamic that revolves around mortuaries and death.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's talk about that all day.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: I I love that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: You really let me go into it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, please.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: I dropped a friend off at a funeral home, a mortuary recently.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And as I sat there, he was alive at the time.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: As I sat there, I looked at the wall around the around it, and a nice little wall with a little flowers in the front, and then a little inviting brick path that you could walk up to go into the mortuary.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And when we went in there, there was this nice padded seats.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Everything was just so nice and sweet, nice, soft lighting.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: When the undertaker came out, he wasn't called an undertaker.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: He was called a funeral director.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: The hearse was not a hearse, it's a limousine.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: The person hadn't died, they had passed.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Passed on.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when your death day comes, you get your own little plaque with your birthday and your death day on it, or a little flower, and your name can be put on the plaque.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of makes you look forward to your turn, doesn't it?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: No, a thousand times no.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care how much they dress up death, no one in his right mind wants to try it on for size.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what's that's what torments every human being.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: But back to the the the whole men love darkness rather than light, it comes back to the fact that we're criminals doing unlawful deeds in darkness, in comes the gospel light, and exposes us.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's like cockroaches.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: We just run from the light because we love the darkness more than light.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's behind evolution.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's behind atheism.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Evolution gives license to sinful human beings to fornicate with their girlfriend, you know, because there's no right, no wrong, there's no moral accountability.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: But there is.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like saying there's no gravity.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't believe in gravity because I can't see it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna fly.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Look at me, jump off a cliff, see I'm flying.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're gonna reap the consequences when you hit the ground.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Mark, I was thinking about um how, again, like I was talking about, we dress things up and how, for example, with God, uh, the the modern iterations of who God is, you would think, oh, he's just this gentle, constantly smiling, you know, the whole grandpa on a rocking chair in heaven.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I I've been reading the Old Testament, I've been in Deuteronomy lately, and I'm like, oh, I'm thinking, have these people read the Bible?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: I can't read Deuteronomy 28.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's just so it's horrifying, yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: When you see, yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: So um, but but Mark, we do that with with sinners though.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, people are nice, and but man, speak to that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: The wickedness of the heart of man.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: There's some saying about if every baby had the strength of a man or do you know what I'm talking about?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yikes.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: They would they would kill their parents in the night.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, give me the food or I'll kill you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well, Joseph Elaine said every unconverted man would kill God all over again if he could just get to him.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Matthew Henry said that if our hand was cut, it would bleed corruption.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, Jonathan Edwards, he said, Um, God sees nothing in man to turn his heart, but he sees plenty of man to turn his stomach.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_05: And the Bible says that our heart is deceitful and desperately wicked uh above all things.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: Who can know it?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_05: And who was it, uh Ben Shapiro who said uh facts don't care about your feelings?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_05: But we we are a generation of people who care more about feelings and not offending someone than truth.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: We we need to speak the truth, and I'm not saying we don't speak it in love, we we always speak it in love, but we we never not speak up because we're afraid that somebody's going to take it wrong.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we we need to let the cards fall where they may.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_05: We need to have the a spine, a backbone to be able to speak up.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_05: When I'm out talking to guys about abortion out on the street, and I I when when they respond back with well, I I don't have a uterus.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and the same goes, you know, no uterus, no say.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_05: But uh and I'll respond back and I go, you may not have a uterus, but you have a spine.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know, so so so speak up.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: Or do you?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, or or or do you, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um Proverbs 14, 12.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_05: There's a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: Seems right, feels convincing, but that but that doesn't mean that it's true, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_05: John 17, 17, sanctify them in the truth.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_05: Your word is truth.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's not opinions, it's not emotions.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh we we need to always go back to God's word.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_05: And if we're not meditating on God's word as truth, we're gonna believe lies are true.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_05: And this is why it is so key and so important to always go back to God's word and to meditate on it day and night, like we recently said on one of our last podcasts.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: We have to get back uh to that place.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I I uh that phrase, facts don't care about your feelings, is really powerful uh idiom.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's important for us, going back to your thing earlier, which is like how do we have passion when we're talking about the gospel to people?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that phrase is really good in the political conversation.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: Compassion.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Compassion.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: What did I say?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Passion and compassion, yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh facts don't don't care about your feelings.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's important for us to recognize feelings are incredibly powerful.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and feelings can often feel like facts.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important for us to recognize that.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I often say to people is like, imagine you have a child, they're three years old, and they come running into your room screaming because they think there's a monster under your bed.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: In that moment, their feelings feel very real to him, that person, that child.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: But for you, as a loving parent that knows the truth, you're not gonna be like, yeah, there are feelings.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna say facts don't care about your feelings, absolutely, but you're also not gonna agree with them and be like, yep, there's probably a monster under your bed.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, instead, you're gonna walk them through that moment compassionately.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for many people, we do have to walk through this compassionately because we're unwinding so much thinking that they've adopted through the Enlightenment era.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so gentleness is super important.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I like to do is try to use, like, I think the metaphor of the courtroom is really valuable.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Ray does such a great job of this.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I'll say to that person is like, imagine you're you're driving down the freeway, you're going 45 miles an hour in a 45 mile an hour zone, and a police officer full pulls you over and it's like, hey, do you know why I pulled you over?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were going 80, and you're like, No, I was going 45.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_05: I would have hit 90 if you stopped me.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the police officer says to you, Well, my truth is that you were going 80, so here's your ticket.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not exciting to you, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do you argue against that?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that is you being experiencing justice because of someone else's quote, feelings.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's flip the script a little bit.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's imagine, God forbid, that someone you love has been murdered, and you're in the courtroom and all of the evidence is obvious.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's eyewitnesses to this.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no way out of it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the judge gives the person one last opportunity to speak, and the person says, Well, you know, my truth is that I didn't commit the murder.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the judge goes, all right, you got me there.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can go free.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: See, in that moment, you don't like that because you know that there is an objective truth above it, and what you're doing is experiencing a form of injustice.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, when you are experiencing it, you want to hold to objective truth.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're the one committing the injustice, especially when you're the one committing the injustice in the courtroom of God, then it's my truth, my feelings, my facts.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is like we all stand in the courtroom of an objective, good, and truthful God.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem is that we know in our hearts that we've sinned against him.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the beauty, of course, of the gospel is that you know the the the answer isn't to avoid the facts that we are in need of just justice.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: The beauty of the gospel is we can look to the truth that Jesus has taken on the wrath of God for us, not so that we can avoid the truth, but we could be forgiven by the one who is the truth.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I was thinking uh about that, you know, element of compassion.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: I I was reminded of two things.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: I was reminded of your interaction with that young lady, Cal State Fullerton, when she was asking about homosexuality, and you talked about the whole thing of you know, uh respect, protect, reject, and just how the way you did that and how you got off the box and you shook her hand and how that resonated.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_04: Mark, I'm thinking of the time when you're on the airplane, you're talking to the guy, I think he might have been a gold medalist or in the Olympics, he was homosexual, and and you just like you're like, man, and you engaged him and he was blown away, like he couldn't believe it, you know.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: And and I just I I I'm highlighting those because and I thought too of the girl too, Mark, who came up to you after uh we were at a university and said she she was dying or or something, you know.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, man, this is what I'm talking about.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: We have to be careful because we lose people in the midst of our passion to be right or to feel right, feel, or to say face because you know we want to seem strong in the moment.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, man, we are losing people.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: I would rather a thousand times look unknowledgeable and say, I have no idea and maybe lose respect than to lose a person that I'm trying to reach with the gospel.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: Think of me whatever you might, but at least at the end of the day, walk away thinking, man, there's something about that guy in the way that he spoke to me that says that he really cares.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: And if this, if this is really what his faith is about, man, maybe I should take another look.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm talking about in the midst of even speaking gospel truth, but because we we I think we go to those extremes, right?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, hey, friendship evangelism, I'll put that smile on your face and you know you don't have to say anything.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: No, we we say, but we go to that extreme of like like it doesn't matter what our actions are.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's hogwash.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_04: It does matter.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's important.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's Francis Assissy.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: I thought of a so-called quote.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of love that quote, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um, preach the gospel is when necessary, use words.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: You knew he didn't say that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to hear me do that?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_05: Well, remember, we was it Steve Sanchez that changed it to uh preach the gospel at all times and if necessary, use amplification.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: You know, um my son Nathaniel just recently ran the LA Marathon.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing didn't stop once.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm blown away.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: He ran it, he organized it.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Julia's training right now to run it.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: Half a marathon.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: She did nine miles the other day.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I asked her which half she was gonna run.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, is she doing half?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, half.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: I thought she's doing a whole no, she's doing the she's doing the second point.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm disappointed.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_05: Anyways, more about Nathaniel.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and and my daughter is training for an ultra marathon, Catalina, for 50 miles.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um but back to the LA marathon, you know they gave out medals if you wanted to give up at the 18 mile mark.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did they really?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_05: I'd have taken it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_05: Participation medal.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's where we've and it's like the the real running you know community.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_05: We're just up in arms just saying that kills incentive.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is so bad.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: That kills incentive.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, yeah.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: We'll bring the finish line up closer to you.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's and by the way, Ray, gold medals, they're not even fully gold.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: 80%.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know that, Ray?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: 92% silver.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: So every gold medalist comes in second.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's a silver medalist.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: I have to admit, honestly, I I'm I guess I'm ignorant, but I didn't even know that they had that like it had any real gold or silver.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: I just thought it was a nice metal, like stainless steel.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are really valuable.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: They actually have value.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: 80 years ago, they were gold.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like seriously, full gold?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're not getting a gold medal from us, brother.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're getting silver.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know, Notre Dame, the Fighting Irish, yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_05: They're football helmets, they have real gold inside.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: They really the painting.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've heard that before.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, like uh gold dust or whatever.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: Gold tooth.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'd never have a gold tooth.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: You can't get it stolen.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you'd hear about people stealing dead people's teeth back in the day because they used to use gold.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: How do you think I got this watch?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I love this quote by Jerry Bridges.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: We we must not allow Oh no.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: Are we gonna go to quotes now with that?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: Only when you do it though.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_05: Have you noticed that easy when he does start to say a verse, he quickly starts saying it?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so before we can do it.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: You should have a little gap for us.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: We must not allow our emotions to hold sway over our minds.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: Truth must rule.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: I feel he's right.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: Truth must rule.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean, guys, emotions are they're they're just so powerful.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I cry no matter what's going on with the music's cry type music on television.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh if you get rid of the music, you're fine.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: But a music just sways us.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, it does, yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that that's actually a really good point, and that we need to be careful with our words, especially when we're talking about God.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I confessionally, I remember in the past realizing I was using the phrase I feel when I was trying to gently explain something to somebody about God.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I've since replaced that with I think.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a huge difference between I feel and I think.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think is that I have addressed God's inerrant, authoritative word.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've um used the logic and the spirit, both that God has given me, and this is the conclusion that I've come to.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel is like, I don't know.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just wherever it's coming from, this is the conclusion I've come out of, you know?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think those little switches in our vocabulary is really important from I think to I feel.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now you feel you're right now?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel pretty good about saying that.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: I feel ya, I feel ya.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think ya.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: Look, let me ask you guys this, and just uh out of curiosity to see if you're thinking what I'm thinking.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: What would you say has in our modern culture been the ultimate outworking of I feel in terms of like something visible that we see?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: Queerness.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: Boom.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, transgenderism, queerness.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: I feel, I feel like I'm a man.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I mean, guys, that is the like you have to understand.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I was watching um uh Bruce Jenner the other day speaking as Caitlin Jenner.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: By the way, uh you guys know I I gave him a tract.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: He was on my plane, and uh it was it was so cool to be able to.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: Is she a plane?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: And my plane.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: You didn't know I had a plane?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, you haven't heard of my airline?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was my plane.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: You haven't heard of my airline Zwain plane?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, right?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_04: Come on.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, but but I was hearing him, it's interesting because, and this is man, this is where things start getting so twisted.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm hearing him talking on a conservative news channel as a quote conservative about another transgender, Leah Thompson, that that swimmer, and like like criticizing him, but calling him her, like it's reality.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm sitting there going, what twilight zone am I living in right now?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_04: And like, and but what what was crazy is even the conservative hosts, they kept saying she and she, like you guys, there has to come a point where we we do away with the madness, and and that's leading to a point.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: And the point is Thank you.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, the Emperor has no clothes, that's what's going on.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and and yet the influence of this madness on the church, and look, again, I'm not talking about being unhinged and going crazy on people and being angry, no, but but to where we're pulling back truth.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's happening with this?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: What's going on?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: What why are we allowing this to happen?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: And what's the remedy?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_04: How do we fight against this and not lose people at the same time?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was listening to Mark talk about Jeremiah 17, and there's an interesting part of that verse where it says, Who can know it?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: It ends up the heart of man is deceitfully wicked on him.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Who can know it?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's saying, who it's it's rhetorical, who can know the depth of depravity human nature can go to?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you see it happen in Nazi Germany.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you could see it happen in the US if, and it could never really happen, if law was totally withdrawn from society.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: No law whatsoever.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Guys, see a girl, she's yours.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: You do what you want on the freeway.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Put a gatling gun on the hood of your car if you want.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: If someone's annoying, you can shoot them and there's no repercussion, that's when you'd begin to see the depravity that's in the heart of man.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: At the moment, law is stopping people killing each other.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Law is stopping road rage taking its course.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the time may come when law is completely withdrawn if you believe prophecy.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and and you know, I'm thinking about how we play along and how certain things that would have seemed insane are becoming reality.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: Mark, I'm thinking about when you were speaking at Cal State Fullerton.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh explain that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_04: There were people behind you holding signs.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, not not not behind me, but uh there were uh counselors.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_05: Or in the crowd, like near signs that said uh uh if you're if you're triggered, you know, come and talk to us.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_05: With this is a uh public free speech zone.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_05: You have a couple options here.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: You can engage uh or you can keep on walking.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um if you feel threatened, do not engage in the conversation.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, we're here if you need any uh any counsel, any conversation, any talk.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, you're intellectual children, and we're here as your saviors.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like I would perhaps understand something like that if this was elementary school.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_05: But This is a college, a college where we have that free exchange of ideas and thoughts.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_05: And we are no longer being taught how to think.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_05: We're being told what to think.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_05: And we we need to be able to not be witty, uh, but but we need to be winsome.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, you were we're talking about earlier about, hey, I feel like I'm uh kind of trapped inside of a woman's body as a man.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I heard somebody respond back and say, you know, I was once uh trapped as a man.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: I was once trapped inside of a woman's body as well.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_05: And then I was born.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's extremely or we hear people say, you know, well, I was born this way.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is that original?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, I heard somebody else say that.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's true and clear.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like you just heard me say it.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_05: So I heard somebody else say it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_05: When somebody says, Oh, I was born this way, a good response back is, well, that's why you need to be born again.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_05: You you need to have a renewal of the mind.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_05: A rejuvenation needs to take place.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_05: So remember that the first lie was that you will be like God.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that there's this self-gratifyingness that is attached to the individual who has come up with their own stuff.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, did you come up with that?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_05: And we we take we can we take pride in that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: I came up with that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: Or how many times have you heard somebody say, I wish I came up with that?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's so good.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: I wish I should have.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_05: Man, I don't know why I didn't think of that, you know, before.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_05: Because we are the apex of our own lives and we think that we deserve to be worshipped.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_05: Why?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_05: Because we worship ourselves.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_05: So of course you should worship us.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_05: No, we would never say it, right?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_05: But how many times do we just, or how long do we just kind of stay in front of the mirror admiring ourselves?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: I threw mine out.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: We we did actually have somebody in here who just stood in front of the mirror, and I was just like amazed at how often they were just looking at themselves in front of the mirror before they came on camera.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Oscar, yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, come on.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it was one of you guys, right?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_05: I can't reach it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: I can't reach it.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even know where the mirrors are.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: All I see is a full head.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: My wife is short and she puts the mirrors.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_05: All the mirrors around the house are like this, so I have to like dug down.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's like mirrors.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: There are things in scripture that I think have the potential to save an entire culture if people would take heed.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, think about what it says in the book of Judges.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there was no king, everyone did what was right in their own eyes.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, that really is you know tied to feelings in some way.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's like that is that's my perception of what's right.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's what you know I think I need to do and get done.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_04: And and and we look at the book of Judges, I mean, what a what a chaotic nightmare.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, even consider that, right?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_05: That Judges 17, 6.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_05: When there was no leader or no king in Israel, every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_05: So, so what is the inference there?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_05: That leaders, good leaders, are gonna thwart that way of thinking.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_05: That when you have somebody in church, because we tend to follow the leader, we follow the leaders who are before us, we mimic their behavior.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_05: This is why it's important to have a strong nuclear family, because their kids are gonna follow the leaders.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_05: They're gonna follow mom, follow dad.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_05: And what are they doing?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_05: How are they leading?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_05: Because they are going to catch what you are teaching.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_05: Eventually it's gonna happen like that, right?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_05: So uh the inference is just very simple that uh we need to have good leaders.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_05: And if there's not good leaders in the White House, we'll make sure that there's good leaders in our house and let the kids follow us.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: In the right house.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: In the right house.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: Snapcracker pilots.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: I thought of that.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did you?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: And Oscar, the the importance of helping our children to navigate through these things, you know.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I I was in Australia and we're 28 details.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know each time I remind myself.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_04: And uh our brother Lalo Gunther brought his daughter with him on the trip.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, sweet brother.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, great brother.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: He brought his daughter with him, and it was such a joy to watch her soaking in the truth that she was hearing at these conferences.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, she's sitting in, like we did four of them, and it was the same messages, but she she kept sitting there, you know.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: The poor girl had to hear you four times.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: Four times, I know my corny jokes.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought, I thought, man, how cool is that?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and then we went out, we did evangelism, we did open air, you know.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_04: I had a couple hundred people swarming us, and and there was another young lady that had come too on the trip uh with her mom, and and she was she was eager to go and engage these other young people that were there, they were her age, you know, like teenage uh kind of sort of level.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_04: But but Oscar, immersing our children in truth because like they're the next generation.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: We're we're impressionable, this world's influential, but but laying that foundation, what are ideas?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how can parents help their kids both with content but also to build that courage in them?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: I actually that's a question I'd want to ask you guys because your kids are a lot further along than mine.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say in this season, for us, it's I think it's two part.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's think helping our kids learn to think critically, not shielding them from the lies, but to help them identify the lies.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've spot the lie.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Spot the lie, yeah, it's a game that we play.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've heard me talk about on the podcast before.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then even in my prayers, when I when it's you know my day to drop my kids, my kids off to school, they hear me pray over them.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And every morning it's the same it's an iteration of the same prayer, but a part of that prayer is help my kids know truth from lies, whether it comes from books, teachers, friends, or their own hearts.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that we pray over them consistently.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Their own hearts.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then and then the other part too, though, it's not enough to know God because even the demons knew who Jesus was.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: We need to cause an affection in our children for God.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not enough for me to tell them what's true and what's not true.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: My ultimate aim is to grow their love for God through their understanding of their Savior, which means my primary job is to always be pointing them back to the gospel, especially when they fail.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And something I've been thinking about a lot lately.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like as our kids fail, am I just looking for moral improvement?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Am I thinking about application of punishment, outcome, or am I thinking, is this an opportunity to remind them of the gospel?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: And as you were saying before, what's the answer to this whole my truth or it's the gospel.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's the gospel, it's the power of God of salvation.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: And my thought is when we're reasoning with ungodly people, we really want to say to them, what I'm telling you is the gospel is not bad news.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: If God is real, that's not bad news.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: If the Bible is real, that's not bad news.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because it can give you hope in your death.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: So am I your enemy because I'm telling you the truth.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you the best news you could ever hope to hear.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's the lie that's within this generation, that the Bible and Christianity, and all that's just bad news.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: Keep it away from me.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the exact opposite.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and and here's the here's the thing.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when we used to go to the courthouse, if you guys remember back in the day and preach the gospel across from living waters, um I I remember one day it it distinctly hit me because we were talking about permission and there were rumblings of are we going to get stopped?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: And you remember that the judge did issue this arbitrary injunction that to shut us down.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: But but before that happened, we would go and it just like hit me on one.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was oh it was wonderful.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I started to say it was wonderful, and then we got shut down.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, can you believe it?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: Superstitious right there.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, you said you said, I can't believe we get to do this.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Don't say that.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: You just got shut down.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: See that building over there?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: You're superstitious, and split that building over there.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: Split that go.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not superstitious, I'm a little stitchious.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, teeny stitches.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, but I remember one day it just hit me distinctly.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: I have permission from the king of the universe who owns this stinking planet.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't he go into all the world, his world, and preach the gospel.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_04: I say that to say this, not to be reckless.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go, I don't care, and not, you know, and avoid being wise and trying to see how we can maximize our effectiveness.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm talking about the boldness, not the boldness, the confidence with which we preach the gospel, with which we speak truth.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think there's something about you've you've noticed it, like you're training someone to share the gospel and they're going up and hi, um, like if I can talk to you, you know.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: You're talking about me?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: And immediately the person's like, you know, they're just they disres they disrespect them on the spot and they're not gonna listen.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: But when you come up and you have that, hey man, let me tell you something, like unapologetic, right?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_04: While using apologetics, unapologetic, in that this is the truth.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think that it's because we lack immersion in the ramifications of the truth.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we know the truths intellectually, but we're not diving deep into them ourselves.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_04: God is sovereign.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: God loves me.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm going to heaven.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: Dive, man, dive! Like like extrapolate that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: Don't don't be a man who's dying of an asthmatic attack while you're sitting right next to an inhaler.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_04: Don't do that.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because I mean that's what we do.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're we have the the truth around us, and then we're going out and we're acting like we don't believe that truth.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's immersion.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: This morning, as I was leaving for the office and I was worrying about different things that are coming up, things I have to do, my prayer was, Lord, like, you know, I have a consistent daily prayer life.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: But what I've I've noticed and what I want to see change is that that prayer life that is without ceasing.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: That posture of like I'm constantly, I have, there's the Lord.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: He's right there, he's in my car with me.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sitting there talking to myself about my problems.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, it's like sitting next to someone who has a box full of cash, hundreds of thousands of dollars, who's told you anytime you need it, I'm right here.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: And you're sitting there, oh, what am I gonna do, man?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta get lunch, I don't have money today.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_04: Hang on, he's still right next to you, man.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: So that's all.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just, and and again, our our forgetfulness, like, man, tie a string around your finger.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: Whatever you need to do to remember these truths and these realities, so that we're immersed in God, we're immersed in truth, so that when the world sees us, they're not like, that guy doesn't even believe what he's saying, man.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: He's out here doing this because that's just what he's got to do, or it's his religion.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_04: No, like let it ooze from you.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: Where people are like, who was it?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: They said, I don't believe what he believes, but he does.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was what's his name.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: Whitfield?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: That was about uh was it about Woods?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was about Woodfield from Hume.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was Hume about Whitfield, I think.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: David Hume.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_04: Speaking of enlightenment.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: So do you believe what he says?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I believe he does.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm talking about.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's good, you know?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so so I think, man, I think that's that's the way we we counter and um You know, one thing I've found kind of exciting and love doing it, when I ask someone, do you think there's life after death?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: They say, I don't know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they say to me, What do you think?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I say, absolutely.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's good.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's why, you know, when Christians speak in like, well, you know, well, well, what do you think maybe?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think I and we and we and we say I've heard believers talk that way.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I feel that, or um, you know, or or I'll hear I'll hear debates sometimes, or I'll hear a Christian being interviewed or something, and they'll say, you know, what I tend to think that, versus like, no, this is the truth.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_04: What do you tend to think that?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_05: Or my my perspective is no, this is this is what God says, this is truth.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: You know, here's a good verse to uh meditate upon, John 1837.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_05: For this purpose I was born, and for this purpose I've come into the world to bear witness to the truth, right?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_05: Truth doesn't originate from our emotions, it originates from God.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_05: And and the more we know God and the more we know the word, then we we we're okay with the outcomes and things that happen.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, just consider the fact how many times do we worry?
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_05: Get anxious.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that worries me when I do that.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_05: But then we've we've read the final chapter and we see that God wins, or we see his promises that are uh just exceedingly abundantly above anything we could ever hope or think.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_05: We we see things like do not worry about your life, and then we worry.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what's going to happen?
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_05: I remember MacArthur before he had passed.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_05: He had said it wasn't after that.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right after he passed, he said you can only say that about Jesus.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus said this before he died, and he said this after he died.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um he said that he became comfortable and longed for the miraculous, meaning I don't know how this is gonna be taken care of, but I've been in enough uh Red Sea scenarios to know that God is gonna come up, he's gonna do what he needs to do.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_05: So when we see somebody worried, we just remember, well, God's always taking care of his children.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_05: You know, King David, I was once young, now I'm old, I've never seen the righteous forsaken, nor his descendants begging bread.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: We hadn't seen a televangelist when he said that.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_05: So I think that if we could just, I mean, what is faith?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_05: Faith is taking God at his word.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_05: You know, God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think Cory Tenboom said.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_05: So if we can just read God's word, we we highlight the promises of God.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_05: But if we were to look at it and go, I don't need to worry about my life.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_05: He's gonna supply my every need.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_05: The God who cannot lie has said this.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_05: The one who is truth, the one who came to testify of truth, the one who said it's impossible for him to lie has said that he is going to accomplish this.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_05: We've read the last chapter.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_05: God wins, and what do we do?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_05: We are still pacing back and forth with sweat on our brow, wondering and worried what's gonna happen here.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_05: And we don't need to do that.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_05: We have the greatest authority.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_05: We must always remember this.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and Mark, to add to that, he's going to, you said, but he's he's also done it, and he's done it our whole life.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, to me, it's that craziness.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I I I I have this sort of saying that I that I will say to myself sometimes, and we we all say, but you've you've just got to laugh.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_04: And that's because how many times have we been at a certain juncture?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_04: And how many times have has it worked out?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_04: As an example, like, oh, oh, you know, um, need.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: How how many times have you been in need and God has provided your need?
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_04: When I was spoken at a speech speaking at a church recently, and I was talking about these sorts of things, I said, How many of you have ever had a moment where you had a certain financial need and you and you received money that was that exact amount?
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_04: And like hands everywhere went up.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_04: How many times have you been dealing with a specific situation and and multiple times someone brought up that situation or that verse, or you turn on your radio and there's a sermon related to it?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_04: Hands everywhere.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, duh, right?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and yet we're surprised when it happens.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, do we do we really believe that God is who he is?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then each time, right, like you find yourself in a similar scenario you've been through before, and it worked out, and you're in it again, and you're about to do what you did before when you aired, and it's like you gotta stop and laugh and say, No, no, no.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um this time I'm doing it right because I it's always worked out.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_04: God always works it out.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_05: And what do you say to me when I travel?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna work out.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: It always has, it always will.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_04: That puts me at ease when I remember that.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, duh.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_04: How many times have I spoken?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_04: Even if it didn't go exactly the way I wanted it to, it's I I survived.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's fine.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not a heretic, no one stoned me.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna work out.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_05: I'd like to close with this thought.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_05: That's silly.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know what you're thinking.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, when I became when I came to Christ, it was as real and as radical as being struck by lightning.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: Absolute transformation.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: All things pass away, all things become new.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the basis of our boldness.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: When you have a a testimony that's that powerful, then you can speak with boldness.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_04: And yet remember what Peter said, right?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_04: He who lacks these things is short-sighted even to blindness and has forgotten his purification from his old sins.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_04: He's saying, He who lacks these virtues has forgotten his redemption, his testimony when he got saved, and that's why he's lost sight.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_04: We gotta, man, we got one thing I try to do regularly is meditate daily on the day I got saved.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because yeah, that was light.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: I remember the feeling when I got saved and thinking that night, I'm gonna go to sleep now.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's three o'clock in the morning.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: This can't be gone in the morning.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: It can't be gone, and it's still there 55 years later.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right, eternity.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's my feelings.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: Feelings.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_04: All right, print.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: There you have it.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget, my comfort is Jesus.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: 365 days devotions for morning and evening.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to like, subscribe, share, whatever you listen, and podcast at LivingWaters.com.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: We want to hear your thoughts.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: We want to hear your questions.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_04: And please install Ray, Mark, Oscar, and Robert Douglas the 45th.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for jumping us, friends.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_04: We'll see you here next time on the boy.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: Little I'm starting for you today, Mark, because we're talking about let's just think of some weird bird with its foot corners.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: See the friends.