Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Vinnie Goodwill on Knicks' title chances, Can Nuggets dethrone Thunder? Lakers Expectations | 10.22

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Vinnie Goodwill on Knicks' title chances, Can Nuggets dethrone Thunder? Lakers Expectations | 10.22 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is that time of week where we
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: have a guest join us, coming to us live from
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Detroit for now, but now of ESPN. Vinny Goodwill, what's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: going on?
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  Speaker 2: I thought you was going to trip up and say
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  Speaker 2: the wrong thing. You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 1: No, brother. This is an occasion. This is the first
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  Speaker 1: time that we have had you on here since you
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  Speaker 1: moved over to the show, man. Congratulations.
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  Speaker 2: Appreciate you, man. I feel like this has been a
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: long but short offseason. So with the season getting ready
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: to go.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on. Somebody got deflected trying to get away from
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: these here. Congratulations. Look, this is the truth. We all
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: do this job and we do these jobs in different places.
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  Speaker 1: And overwhelmingly, the jobs you do are the same. It's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: just somebody else that writes the checks in a different
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  Speaker 1: management structure. But it is dishonest of anybody to not
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: act as though getting to a job at ESPN in
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  Speaker 1: the capacity that you'll be is not an occasion and
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  Speaker 1: a milestone. You have been working this job a long time.
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  Speaker 1: I have known you now for about 15 years, so
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  Speaker 1: we can all feel old. You just look almost exactly
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  Speaker 1: the same. But you got there. And it's a day
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  Speaker 1: that's been coming for a while. And so I think
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  Speaker 1: I speak for a lot of people who are here
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  Speaker 1: and say, congratulations on that, brother.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. I, you know, I don't think about it
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  Speaker 2: that way. Like you said, like, yeah, knowing you for
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  Speaker 2: 15 years, like that's a thing, but I don't think,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm sure you can speak to this. Like you
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: don't do the job thinking, oh man, one day I'm
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: going to wind up at this place. You're just trying
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: to do the job and honestly make some change. You
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  Speaker 2: know what I mean? And then if something comes up
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  Speaker 2: and comes your way, all right, cool. So now that
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  Speaker 2: those things have converged and I'm going to be covering
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  Speaker 2: like the biggest story in the Eastern Conference for most
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of the season, like that's pretty cool.
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  Speaker 1: So that right there, that gets us to where this
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  Speaker 1: season is interesting because we have, I think we'll get
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  Speaker 1: to the loaded West a little bit later because there's
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: a lot going there, but it is the zombie East, right?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: This is, I know Stephen A got some hell for
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the way that he put this, but it is the truth.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Jason Tatum will not be playing for the Boston Celtics.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Tyrese Halliburton will not be playing for the Indiana Pacers.
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  Speaker 1: It looks as though there are two teams who can
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: go to the finals from the East, the Knicks and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the Cavs. That's what it looks like. That's part of
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: why this Giannis thing is kind of interesting with Milwaukee. Like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they've made their changes, whatever, but how could you look
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  Speaker 1: at the rest of this conference and say that Milwaukee
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  Speaker 1: isn't a couple of bounces away from a deep playoff run, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like anything can happen right now. It feels like in
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the zombie East, but you're going to be front and
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  Speaker 1: center with the Knicks. You're going to be spending your
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  Speaker 1: time with what I think it is. I feel like
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  Speaker 1: this is as interesting a story as we've had in
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  Speaker 1: the NBA truly in years because it's one thing when
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  Speaker 1: the Knicks are good. It's another thing when Knicks fans
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  Speaker 1: come to have expectations. And I think that they had
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: tamped their expectations down for a long time, doing their
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  Speaker 1: best to be reasonable and appreciative since they have been
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  Speaker 1: sorry for so long. But tell Knicks fans why they
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  Speaker 1: should not think this team can make the NBA finals
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  Speaker 1: and you can't. There's no plausible argument for it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's one of those things like as
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  Speaker 2: if you've been flying Spirit Airlines for about 20 years
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and then you get a taste of that new life
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and then you get a taste of that first class life.
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  Speaker 2: You ain't even trying to go back to Delta Comfort.
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  Speaker 2: You trying to stretch your legs out. You know what
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  Speaker 2: I mean? You trying to engage in that. Yes, I
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  Speaker 2: would like a glass of red wine before we take off.
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  Speaker 2: Like that is where the Knick fans are. And the
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  Speaker 2: fascinating thing for me, Bo, is This is the first
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  Speaker 2: year in a very long time that the Knicks can
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  Speaker 2: disappoint people. Everything else has been about hope and maybe
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: some bounces going right. Even 1999, that was about bounces
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  Speaker 2: going right. I wrote about it in one of those
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  Speaker 2: preview blurbs that we're doing. This is the first time
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  Speaker 2: since 1993, since Michael Jordan said, I'm done with this.
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  Speaker 2: That the Knicks fans can say, oh, we expect to
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  Speaker 2: be playing in June. Like it's been 30 freaking years
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  Speaker 2: and on top of that. And this makes things even
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: more complicated, I would say, for Knicks players. The first
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  Speaker 2: three game losing streak, you're going to have everybody working
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  Speaker 2: a trade machine saying, OK, now what permutation can we
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  Speaker 2: get to get Giannis here? Now, does that mean Mikael
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Bridges and OG Anobi and Pixel? Does that mean Carl Towns?
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  Speaker 2: And you're going to have everybody studying tax aprons and
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: second aprons and becoming a capologist the first three-game losing streak.
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  Speaker 2: Or you just lose three out of five games in November. Like,
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  Speaker 2: that's the level of expectation. It's not going to be,
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  Speaker 2: let's hurry up and get to June, right? Because that's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of the time, that's where Boston is. Or
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  Speaker 2: that's where Boston was last year. is let's hurry up
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  Speaker 2: and get to June. That's where Denver was a couple
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  Speaker 2: of years ago. Let's hurry up and get to June,
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  Speaker 2: and they didn't get there. For the Knicks, it's going
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  Speaker 2: to be worldwide panic. The first time Mike Brown does
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: something that Tom Thibodeau wouldn't have done. It's going to
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  Speaker 2: be worldwide panic the first time Jalen Brunson dribbles the
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  Speaker 2: ball into dust a little too long. It's going to
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  Speaker 2: be worldwide panic the first time Carl Towns gets three
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  Speaker 2: fouls in the first quarter. Cause he wants to play
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the bongos. It's going to be panic. And I don't
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  Speaker 2: know if people are built for the panic.
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  Speaker 1: Well, here's the other part of that, because all those
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  Speaker 1: things you describe in some form or fashion are probably
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  Speaker 1: going to happen. Cause one thing that's also happening with
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  Speaker 1: all these guys, towns is in year two being with
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  Speaker 1: the team. I guess this is year four for Brunson
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: being with the team. And look, I can't explain to
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  Speaker 1: you how popular Jalen Brunson is in New York City.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Just so people listen, he's that guy, but at the
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  Speaker 1: same time, he is an imperfect player. He is a
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  Speaker 1: flawed player, and in ways where at some point, Exceeding
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  Speaker 1: expectation wears off because that is what had happened. He
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: had exceeded expectation. The team exceeded expectation. Now there's more expectation.
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  Speaker 1: And now they're going to look at you just a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: little bit differently. I mean, it happened to LeBron James, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like this could happen to anybody. Karl-Anthony Towns in year two,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: some of those imperfections that we've known about, they'll be
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: closer to the surface. And then the places where those
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: two guys' imperfections are the same, their two best players
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  Speaker 1: don't guard people, right? This is a very savvy crowd
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  Speaker 1: in New York City, right? Like this fan base is,
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  Speaker 1: they understand process, right? You're not just gonna, you're not
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  Speaker 1: gonna get over on them simply with results. They understand process.
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  Speaker 1: And there's a whole generation of people who are too
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  Speaker 1: young to have ever seen Knicks fans really at it
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  Speaker 1: because they haven't even gotten to what makes it funny
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  Speaker 1: to us, which is how little it used to take
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  Speaker 1: to be like, I don't know. What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: Can we get a championship? What do you think? What
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  Speaker 1: do you think? And you got a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: it last year and it felt a little bit silly,
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  Speaker 1: a tiny bit silly. But a team whose second best
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  Speaker 1: player was what? Miles Turner. had a real chance at
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  Speaker 1: winning a championship last year, right? So how can you
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  Speaker 1: tell them that they don't have a chance to win
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  Speaker 1: a championship? Which means we should win a championship. When
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: it's your team, you don't just say chance. The chance
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  Speaker 1: becomes should. And I think in Cleveland, they're probably feeling
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  Speaker 1: the same way, but this is going to be louder
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  Speaker 1: because it's New York.
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  Speaker 2: No, I differ with you a little bit. I think
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  Speaker 2: for Cleveland, they got to get to the finals. I
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  Speaker 2: think for the Knicks- For some weird reason, and maybe
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  Speaker 2: it's just because they saw the Pacers, whose second best
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  Speaker 2: player was Pascal Siakam and Miles Turner.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, I got Siakam, my bad.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to win it. Like, the thing is,
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  Speaker 2: you saw the, if you consider the Pacers to be
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  Speaker 2: a flawed team or not a traditional looking contender, take
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  Speaker 2: the Oklahoma City Thunder to within 24 minutes of a ring,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: because remember, the Pacers led that game seven at the half,
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  Speaker 2: even though we all knew what was coming after that.
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  Speaker 2: the expectation is going to be, if you get to
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  Speaker 2: the finals, you're going to win. It's not like as
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  Speaker 2: great as Oklahoma City is, and me and you have
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  Speaker 2: been on this, and you have been there longer than
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  Speaker 2: I have. I don't know if Oklahoma City has reached
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  Speaker 2: a point of, if they're going against the New York Knicks,
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  Speaker 2: where Knicks fans are going to look at them with
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  Speaker 2: the respect of, oh, they're the defending champion. They're a machine.
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  Speaker 2: We can't beat them. I don't think Knicks fans operate
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  Speaker 2: with that level of clear-headedness and rationale. Like, I'll tell
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: you a quick story. I think it was two years ago,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a group of friends and I went to New York
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: for a friend of mine's 40th birthday. So we just
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: all flew in, mobbed out for a couple days. And
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: they were like, okay, let's get tickets to a Knicks game.
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  Speaker 2: And we happened to come up on something. It was
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a Tuesday night in December, Bo, against the Toronto Raptors.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And there was a possession in the second quarter where
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: everybody in Madison Square Garden was on their feet. It
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't a big possession. It wasn't anybody on no hot streak.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It was just the second quarter, like eight minutes left,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: and they get on their feet, and we met up
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: at halftime, and it was like, yo, these people are crazy. Like,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: they're into it in a different way. And we're talking
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: about basketball fans from Detroit who know what serious basketball
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: looks like, and they're like, no, these people are different here.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So now that you have the red carpet laid out, right?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: And you got this new coach and you've got continuity
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: and you feel like you have the cheat code over
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers because you feel like you're bigger, stronger,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: tougher than them, which is what Knicks fans think about
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: every single team that they've ever had that's been worth
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  Speaker 2: a damn. There's not just the expectation that they're going
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to get to the finals. That feels like there's this
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: demand to win. Because do you feel like, because you're
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: there and I'm not, And once I get there, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: get a better feel for it. Do you feel like
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Knicks fans will be happy at the end of this
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: if by June 15th, they lose in five games in
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the NBA Finals, whether it's to Oklahoma City or Denver
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: or Houston? Or will they be, will there be like,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: oh man, we blew it?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Now, I think, I think the Finals will go a
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: long way. Like, I do not believe that if the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Knicks make it to the finals, that New York City's
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: going to be like, all right, that's a start. No, man,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: they're going to be in these streets. They're going to
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: be thrilled if they make it to the finals. I
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: think exceeding what it was last year, I was surprised
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: how many people thought that they should have been better
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: last year. But any explanation that you heard, honestly, made
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: perfect sense. The decision to move on from Tibbs, I think, is.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, how often has Jim Dolan had the bright idea?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Because this is a Jim Dolan idea, right? And so
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: do you trust him? But I want to go to Cleveland.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Since we've mentioned them, and I think they matter a
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: lot in the course of this discussion, the Cavs and
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: the Knicks have the same thing. Their dude that has
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the ball is not tall, right? Now, who would you
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: rather have, Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Brunson?
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I think with the accolades or what the playoff bona
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: fides have been, right? Jalen Brunson's playoff bona fides have
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: exceeded Donovan Mitchell's, right? Yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's an interesting question because obviously before Jalen
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Brunson got there, there's no, I mean, Knicks fans wanted
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Donovan Mitchell specifically. But I think you could go either way, right? Like,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I think you're in a very similar space with those guys.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: What the Cavs have that makes them so interesting is
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: where are we in the ascent of Evan Mobley, who
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: is an incredible talent and an incredible player. and just
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: not that heavy, not that strong. He's not going to
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: anchor you inside, but he can do a range of
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: things that somebody his size rarely can do. But it's
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: part of why they still feel like they are a
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: guy short, because he is great, but I still don't
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: think we think he's that guy. And I don't know
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: if that guy is in the cards for him. Is
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: he a guy that's a high-end second-best player on a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: championship team? Or is he going to become a guy
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that could be that dude? Or is Donovan Mitchell good
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: enough at what he does to allow Mobley to simply
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: be who he is?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: It's funny. It's two points that I think I want
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to make, and I'm curious on the second one. But
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: for the first one, if Evan Mobley controls the game defensively,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: does defense still matter enough to you where really great
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: defensive player focal point-ish on offense equals dominant player, best
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: player on the championship team. Does that one side of
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: the floor mean as much as it did 20 years
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: ago or has the axis tilt so much that defense
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: accounts for maybe 30% of a profile?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: What I think you're asking on that is the description
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that you gave sounded very similar to Kevin Garnett 08
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: type of situation. Anchor of defense, guy through whom you
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: could run offense, but you have Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Is that, do the Cavs have a combination of two
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that give you that? Keep in mind, Paul Pierce is what.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: 6'7, 6'8?
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: It's a, I say that to say, I think we're
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: at this weird sort of inflection point with the league
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: where you have great players like Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: who you're not sure can be the best player on
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the championship team. And they're, I won't say young, but
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: they're young-ish, right? Like they're not on the older side,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like a LeBron, a Steph, a Kevin Durant. Players that
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: we don't think can be the best player on a
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: championship team, even though they have been, right? So you
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: got the younger side, you got the older side, and
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: even a player like Giannis, where if Giannis decides to
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: make a move, I feel like he has to go
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: to a situation where all of the weight is is
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: not on him to be the best player for 36
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: minutes a night on both ends of the floor. I
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: just don't think his body can hold up that way.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: So similarly, whether it's Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: the question becomes, it's not necessarily one, it's can you
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: do it for a stretch of time? And is there
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: someone else playing alongside you that can do it for
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: a stretch of time? The only person that we really
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: don't have to ask that question about, I guess there's two,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: is Jokic and Shea. But everybody else, it's going to
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: be their questions.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but look, this is an era of you can
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: do a lot with an imperfect team. Oklahoma City's still
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: an imperfect team because our question was, are they sturdy enough, right? Mm-hmm.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: A little bit thin. I think Hardenstein helped a lot,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: but we saw the craziness that Dagono was doing, pulling
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: him in and out of starting lineups during the finals, right?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: So even they weren't sure that what he was providing
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: was enough. But what's good about them is great, and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: they have a top three player in the NBA, right?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But that team, there's no way in the world that
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: 15 years ago, that Pacers team is a team that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: goes to the NBA finals.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: No.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: No. Like, it doesn't... We would have had a number
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of reasons that we could have ticked off why that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: team can't win, can't go to the finals, right? What
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: they don't have or so forth and so on. That's
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: not how it works anymore, man. Like, you're going to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: tick off those things about teams and then there's a
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: good chance they're going to get there because you can't
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: build that... The highest end of team is really, really
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: hard to build. Presti seems to be the only guy
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that's figured it out. Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it remains to be seen what
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Houston does, right? Because Houston is kind of one of
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: those teams... that is legit sort of coming and they
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: still got, they still got draft capital and they got
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: so many young players that you're trying to figure out
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: where they sit. My thing with Indiana last year was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: they beat every team that they beat had NBA finals expectations.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Like once you play, you play Milwaukee, they have finals
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: expectations with a healthy Damian Lillard. You played the Cavs.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: They had finals expectations. By the time the Knicks got
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: to the Eastern Conference Finals, They have finals expectations. So
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: once you beat the Celtics and you beat the Celtics
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: pretty decisively, Tatum or no Tatum, Knick fans had the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: right to feel like, okay, we're going to the finals, right?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And that's in a weird way for them to have
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: beaten everybody that's been in front of them and to
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: have been healthy-ish up until, what was that, game four
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: of the finals or whatever it was when Halliburton first
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: got hurt and then what happened in game seven happened
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: in game seven. I would have been really fascinated to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: see what that team came back and looked like this year.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Because I still don't know if they would be regular season,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: 60 win, we're running away and hiding from the rest
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: of the conference, as much as they would have been, okay,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: we're going to win 50-52 games, and then we're just
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: going to be comfortable playing against anybody in any building
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: for the finals. Almost in a way, in a very
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: weird way, the last team I could think of in
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that way was probably the Rockets. like the Hakeem Rockets,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: except Tyrese ain't no Hakeem. It's just that we have
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: the confidence to go into any building, your building, at
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: any point, and steal a game or two.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Now, let me ask this, because I think this is
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the next interesting question with the East. Because again, I
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: don't think we've... The Celtics will be interesting without Tatum because...
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, they still do have Jalen Brown. Yes. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Jalen Brown is a Finals MVP. Like, Jalen Brown... Are
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the Celtics good enough to win a championship without Jason Tatum?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's a lot to ask. Can you be
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: really good with Jalen Brown as your number one? We're
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: about to find out. That I think will be interesting,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: but I don't think we think of them as a contender.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I think that we will probably be at the end
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of the season with the East and look out and say,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: who was the team that made the leap? It feels
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like Detroit last year made a jump, but I'd say
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: short of a leap. Orlando also feels like a team
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that might be capable of a leap. Do you see
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it for either of them?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I have questions about Orlando. Just because your two best players,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Wagner and Bancaro, play kind of sort of the same
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: position and occupy the same spots on the floor. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: with young players to me, if you're both two high-volume
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: scorers who both need the ball and you haven't spent...
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: They they didn't spend any time on the floor together
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: at all last year because of the very weird injuries
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: that they had so now everybody's looking and saying well
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: you add Desmond Bain you just add water you just
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: needed shooting and you add all that to all the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: other things that you get like the limp and the
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: defense and everything else and it's magically going to add
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I need to see it I'm not saying it's not
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: going to happen I'm saying for that team, I need
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: to see those two questions answered. Like, how does Bankero
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: and Wagner figure it out together on the floor at
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: the same time? Because it's easy to dominate the ball
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: when the other one ain't there. You know what I mean?
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: It's easy for you to be the guy when the
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: other guy is sitting down. So that to me, now
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Detroit is a more interesting or fascinating thing because so
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: much of this is internal improvement, right? Like, yeah, Malik
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Beasley had one of the most prolific three-point shooting seasons
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: in the history of the NBA. And the feds are
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: looking at him right now.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Can't really do much about that in the meantime. You
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying? You got the feds. You got
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: them boys on you.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: They watch it. They watch it.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: They watch it.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: And ain't nobody giving you a job. Everywhere you go,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the feds is. Ain't nobody trying to bring that to work.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So the question becomes, is Cade Cunningham going to take
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the lead? is a Sar Thompson who might be the
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: best athlete in the league that's not named a man Thompson.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like take the leap. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I tend to believe in internal jumps more than we
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: make an acquisition. And that's just a league wide thing
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: for me, not a Detroit thing or whatever, because they
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: could fall to the back of the pack or they
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: could be better and not win as many games. But
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: it's just, A, do you believe in Cade Cunningham as
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: an MVP candidate, as a guy, like the guy? If
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: you do, that's why you believe in Detroit. If you
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: believe in things sight unseen, then you're saying, I believe
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: in the Orlando Magic. And I think those are two
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: totally different questions to ask, but one that both teams
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: can fairly answer.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Now let's go to a more pessimistic space. What in
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the world do you think is going to happen to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Philadelphia this year? Because it doesn't sound like Joel Embiid Like,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it sounds over.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Did you not expect when you saw Joel Embiid with
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: his MVP season, did it not look like we were
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: watching the best as he was ever going to be? Health-wise, production-wise, everything.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: That's just what it looked like and felt like in
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: that moment. It just felt like everything was coming together, right?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Paul George, sneaky old. right? And coming off of a
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: procedure over the summer.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Year 16.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: And he's 10 years removed from one of the most
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: debilitating injuries we've ever seen on national television. The fact
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: that he's been able to come back from that injury,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I think we've almost been desensitized from that. You get
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the amount of endurance that it takes to fight back
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: from being hurt. I think we don't highlight enough, right?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: But Done is done. Or close to cooked is close
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: to cooked. And whenever I hear someone say, player X
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: is in the best shape of his life, I almost
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: think of that one fight. What was that? Muhammad Ali
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: against Larry Holmes? When he said, I'm in the best
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: shape of my life. And if you've never seen a fight,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: don't ever watch the fight. Because you don't want to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: watch your hero not have it no more. That could
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: be where we're at. For Philly, it could just be
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: on Tyrese Maxey, I feel like. their over-under is like
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: 42 or 43. Not that I'm into the Vegas stuff,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: but I think that is enormously optimistic for them.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I would be very leery of betting the over. They
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: won 24 games last year. And yet, everybody was out
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: at a point in time.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I like Vijay Edgecom. I like him. The rookie. I
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: like him. You're going to like him, Bo.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Tell me this, though. How many games do you think
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Joel is going to play this year?
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Oof.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Give me half, Eddie.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do we think it's 40? And what 40 are
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: we talking about?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Not going to be the back-to-backs. It's not going to be.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's not going to be
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: the game. And I don't know how many back-to-backs they have.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: But they're going to have to be, even best-case scenario,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to be so very careful with him. Like,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: if he's not hurt, you're afraid that he's going to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: get hurt. If he's nicked up, you're afraid that it's
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: going to get worse. If he's hurt, you're going to
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: try to slow play it. There's no instance where with
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Joel Embiid that you can breathe, that you can exhale,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: that you can feel good. And we're not assigning blame.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: That's just sometimes you got a bad body and some
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: bad breaks. That's just how it goes. But that's just
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: where he is in his career. And he's starting a super,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: super duper max contract.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: How much money do you think they owe him?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I was looking at this a couple weeks ago. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: feel like he's making like 56 this year. Maybe like 240?
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Ballpark, yes.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: They got four more years of paying him. And it's
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: in there. He's got a player option for 2028, 2029
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: of $ 67 million that you can go ahead and write
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: down right now. He will be picking up that $ 67
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: million in three years. Oh, that's already picked up. Already.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: But coming up next, we're going to talk about what's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: going on in the West, which is a lot of
• 25:29
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• 26:55
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• 28:54
  Speaker 1: we are back with Vinny Goodwill of ESPN. We're doing
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: an NBA season preview. Okay, so... it's fair to say
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the West is kind of the Thunder and everybody else, right? Like,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I think we can appropriately say that. I don't, I
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: haven't even bothered to look at what the Thunder did
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: because the Thunder has a million players. I don't like,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know what you could tell me
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that would matter.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: The hope is, oh, Jalen Williams not starting the season
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: because of an injury. Okay. That's, that's the hope. You
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: still got Shea doing what he's going to do. What
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: if Chet makes the leap this year?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: It's on the board.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And not like the leap
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: as in, because I felt like he made leaps during
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: the finals. Like, oh, he recognizes what's in front of him.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Him going, like the matchup between him and Pascal Siakam,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: like two similarly built players, even though Chet is, you know,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: extra skinny on top of skinny. But I feel like
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that's a guy where going through nine months of basketball,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: even though he got hurt at the beginning of the year,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: but let's just fall into the purpose of saying nine
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: months of basketball, still standing at the end of it
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: and growing so much. There's nothing but space in front
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: of him. Like he looking at big Vic, like, yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: you may be the future, but I'm right now. Like,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: like this is what this is about.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Our question really of Chet coming out of college was,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: can this guy be a franchise player? And I think
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that it's still fair to ask the question of, can
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: he be a franchise player? except the Thunder are in
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: a different situation with him than any of us truly expected.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Because while you are asking, can Chet be a franchise player?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. They already got one of those. So
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about now is can Chet be supersized
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: role player? So like where we're asking, if you're lucky
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: at this point, you want Chet to become Evan Motley. Hmm. Right.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Like the combination of skills that we talk about having
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: or what we think about is Chet is a guy
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: that can face the basket, but can anchor your defense,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: can block shots. You know, all those things, though, I
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: think we expect more of Chet as a shooter than
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: we expect of Mobley. But still, if he can affect
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the games like Evan Mobley can affect games and they
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: have Shea. What are we doing here? What are we
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: keeping in mind that Shea? It's like the Jalen Brunson
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and all those guys. Cool. What if they were 6'6?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Because they're not 6'6, but that guy's 6'6, doing those things.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: He's 6'6, and you can't get a feel for his rhythm.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's like playing off key.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Like you're just trying to catch it. You're trying to
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: catch the rhythm of it. And Shea is a rhythm
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: player in his own head. And by the time you
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: catch the rhythm, he pump fakes and you go flying
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: into his shoulder and he going to the line. And
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: the next time he does it, he's setting his feet
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and then busting one in your eye. Like there is,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a way to guard him
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: without giving up something and saying, you know what? We
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: just going to give you the foul. We're going to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: be okay with maybe beating you up and maybe just
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: throwing different defenders at you and hoping and praying that
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: someday you get tired. But hey, I don't never see
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: that man sweat. I see that man sweat on 2K
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: more than I see the man sweat in real life.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And everything just looks so easy. But when I called
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: him slow penny last year, people thought it was an insult.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that is a ultimate compliment that I
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: am giving that young man. Like, he is at a
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: place where, peak of his powers, who going to stop me?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: And, you know, he engaged in some BLT. You know
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Them Bush League tactics. Like, there's some.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Some chicanery.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: There's a little chicanery. There's a little merchant... Merchanteering. I
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: don't even know if that's a word. But, you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he be trying it, right? You know how I feel
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: about that. He be trying... By the way, I'm looking
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: at these numbers from last year. The Thunder in the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: regular season had a plus 13 point differential. Nobody else
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: in the West was plus five.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Like, think about this. The Timberwolves got to the conference
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: finals against the Mavericks in 2024. And you're like, hey,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they're almost there. But they wasn't because the Thunder, and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I guess, look, the Thunder had finished number one in
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the West the year before in the regular season. So
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: it's not, this isn't like what happened with the Warriors
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: where we were like, yo, I can't believe.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: It came out of nowhere.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Right. I guess I see why they fired Mark Jackson.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Like it isn't exactly that, but it does feel like
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the Thunder opened up a gap.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Right. And, you know, I love Minnesota. You know, I'm
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: here for Ant. I'm here generally for the way they play.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: It feels like there's a giant gap. It feels like
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the West is loaded with giant gap, like maybe the Rockets, right?
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: And we're going to see what this version of Kevin
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Durant offers them because what they didn't have was a
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: guy to go get shots. Well, now they have the
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: all-time go-get-shot guy. Denver made some moves where, to me,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: they feel like the most logical number two, in large
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: part because they have who I believe to be the
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: best player on earth. The Lakers put a pin in that.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like all things LA, we need to put
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a pin in. We also, by the way, have a
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: full year of Steph and Jimmy, though a full year
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: of Jimmy is probably going to be 60 games, but
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: we did not see the Warriors last year as constructed. Now,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: who knows with the Grizzlies, though the question with them
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: is going to be like, is John Morant still bouncy?
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Do we know that? Dallas, actually very interesting.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: Point Cooper.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I had completely forgotten that that guy played on that
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: team now.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Point Cooper. Point Cooper flag. 6'8.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Athletic. Sneak. And we ain't even get to Victor. Like,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the West is wild.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Every night. Every. The only thing the NBA would be
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: asking for is, like, can y'all play more of y'all
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: games in the Eastern time zone so we can get
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: all of this stuff? You know what I mean? Like,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that is the only thing that goes against this.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Well, hold on, right fast. Let me say this before
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I forget. In looking at the teams that didn't make
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: the play-in, young Ace Bailey has looked pretty good in
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the clips that I've seen in this preseason.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, he has.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: He's a boomer buster, but he has looked pretty good.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: In shape Zion. I haven't sold all my stock. I
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: haven't sold all my stock. You got Victor. You got, well,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I guess Devin Booker all alone down there in Phoenix.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got Dylan Brooks, who's more likely
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to bite his jersey than, you know what I mean?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Like one of the kindergarten kids that bites your coat.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. And I think Portland turned out better last
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: year than I expected. Really, the West, top to bottom,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: is something to talk about.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: No nights off. That's why I wonder what the gap
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: is going to be between not 6-7, like playing and
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: not playing. What's the gap going to be between 6-3?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: What's the gap going to be between 3-1? In Oklahoma City,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: and we've given them all the platitudes and respect, they
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: could be better than what they were last year just
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: off the fact of being a champion and win nowhere
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: near 60 games this year or win low 60s. And
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: not because they're not better, not because they took their
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: foot off the gas, but you got to tell me
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: where you definitively just see easy wins where you only
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: got to play 35 of the 48 minutes and you
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: run away and hide. Like that's what Golden State used
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: to do. in the first two years of Kevin Durant.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: We're going to play hard for 12 minutes, and we're
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: going to blow you out the water, and you'll spend
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: the rest of the game playing catch-up. There's no team
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: that you're going to do that to. Like, even the Clippers,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the Clippers of Kawhi Leonard, who's had his name in
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: a bunch of different things this summer, obscuring the fact
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that he had a healthy summer this summer, and he's
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: not rehabbing. He's playing basketball. You know, like, all these players.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Everything has matriculated to the Western Conference. Like, we don't
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: think of Minnesota in the same tier, but they've been
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: to the conference finals two years in a row. And
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Ant-Man says, oh, yeah, I'm going to stop being Clay
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Thompson this year. I'm going to get to the middie.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: It's freaky. Freaky. The dog is freaky. I can't wait.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you this about the Clippers. The Clippers
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: are old, but the Clippers are deep.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Well, they're deep. But can you be deep and old
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: when you're going to count on Brad being hurt? You're
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: going to count on Chris Paul being hurt? Like the
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: player you count on being there every night is probably
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Jim Harden, right? You count on Harden being there every night.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You count on Zubats being there every night. Like it's
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: a weird hodgepodge of players that I wouldn't want to
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: play on a nightly basis. Like that part to me, Bo,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: is fascinating because I still think Ty Lue is top
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: to bottom the best coach in basketball. Like, I have
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: seen nothing that leads me to believe otherwise. But we
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: need to talk. Like, you glossed over it a little bit.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: We need to talk about Denver. Because they've shored up
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: some stuff.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And if all you needed was a Jokic and stuff
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: and Jokic and reliability, they took the champs to seven
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: last year. Yeah. They took them to seven.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: They took the champs to seven last year. And I
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: have long been short of an apologist, but definitely a
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Michael Porter defender. But that's a broken down body. Like,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I think that we don't talk nearly enough about how
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: kind of amazing it is that Porter's been capable of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: doing whatever it is that he has been able to
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: do up until this point. Moving him and bringing in
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Cam Johnson. you might have basically brought in a more
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: durable version of the same player, given where Porter's body
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: is at this point.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: And it's enabled you to do other things in the
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: meantime because he's $ 17 million cheaper and the Nuggets are
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: not the team that's going to be going deep into
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: the aprons. It allows you to bring in a Tim Hardaway.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: You know, that doesn't seem like, oh my God, such
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: an impactful move. But you know what he is? He's
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: a guy that can play off Nikola Jokic and shoot
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of threes. And that's all you really need.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Like if Cam Johnson and Michael Porter Jr. are similar archetypes,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and maybe you're going to say Michael Porter Jr. is
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: a better player. If he's not enabled to be there,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the structure of the team doesn't say Michael Porter tonight
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: is your night to cook as the third best player.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Then it doesn't matter to me that he's a better player.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Are you the better fit for what we are trying
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: to do in the construct of how this team is built,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Cam Johnson, than Michael Porter Jr.? And the answer might
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: be yes. And we got resources that enables us to
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: do other things to fill in the blanks. Because once again,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: we only need so much around Jokic.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: And they have a passable big man behind him with Valachunas,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: which has not been the case.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Here's the other thing I want to make. Not next,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: not behind Jokic. Next to Jokic, think of the size
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: that's in the Western Conference when you go to how
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: tall the Houston Rockets are, to how tall the Oklahoma
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: City Thunder are, to even in Minnesota, like Julius Randle
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: is just 6'9, but he played bigger. He plays up.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: You need to be able to have multiple big men,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: not just for the depth, but you got to have
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: multiple big men so they can play together. Yoka's might
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: be playing some four this year.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. Now that gets us also to
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the Rockets. You mentioned how tall they are. I mean,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: they're basically trying now three close enough to seven footers
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: on the front line, right? Four. Yeah. Got Steven Adams
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: still there too. They got four. They got tall guys.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: I think, I think it's safe to say the question
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: with the Rockets is, so what's this Reed Shepard thing
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: going to look like? Cause they were talking real good
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: about him in the preseason last year. Then he never
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: got to play.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Well, that was the holdup with all of their depth
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and youth and everybody else. Like, think of what they
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: gave up to get Kevin Durant. Like, maybe they should
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: have gave up more, but you still gave up the
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: likes of Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks, and you still
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: feel like you have a pretty deep team, right? Like,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you can look at a man Thompson and say, maybe
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: the best place for you to be is on the
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: ball because you're not a good shooter, but you put
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: so much pressure on the defense, rim pressure, defense, like,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: drawing to and kicking pressure that we want to make
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the game easier for the Kevin Durant on this team. Like,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the one thing I don't want to see if I'm
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Houston is Kevin Durant at the top of the key
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: staring down the barrel of a defense 1-5. Like, as
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: well as he can do that, he just had a birthday.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Did he just turn 36? Like, I don't know if
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: that is the best use. I think he's 7.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Is he 37?
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's seven. I believe he's an 88-er. Yeah.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Once again, we've been saying Kevin Durant older than you
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: think for a long time. Yes, we have. And even
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I'm toned off at 37. I thought he was 36. Like,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: that's where we are now. Hold on, Vinny.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: You're 19.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: He did come in in those seven.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Year 19. He's Al Horford. Think of how old we
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: think of Al Horford being. Same draft. Wow.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: The Greg Oden, Al Horford, Jeff Green.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Jeff Green's still in the league.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Still in the league. On that team. Yes. Here's the thing.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Do you trust the Rockets to be healthy enough for
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: 82 games that Kevin Durant can have the legs on
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: the back end To Karen, that's the one question that
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: you don't have necessarily about Minnesota that you don't have
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: about Oklahoma City is, does our best player have to
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: be upright at the end and not burnt out so
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: that he can be the best version of himself when
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: it's game five of a playoff series and I need
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you to go get a bucket?
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: That's the question. Right.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Now, what do you think is possible for the Lakers
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: this year?
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of things are like anything is possible.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Like if you tell me, if we were to fast
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: forward and just drop me into February 7th or 8th
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: or whatever the trade deadline is and LeBron ain't on
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: the team, I'm like, oh yeah, something probably happened. Or
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: if you drop me that way and you tell me
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that the Lakers are fourth in the West because Luka's
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: having a year and LeBron's having a year and Vanderbilt
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: is healthy and, uh, DeAndre Ayton is rim-running big, eating
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: off of Austin Reeves, who plays really well when he's
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: the second option. Statistically, he plays very well when he's
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: the second option. I don't know how much that translates
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: into winning, but he can perform well. So many things
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: are on the board for the Lakers, Bo, that nothing
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: would shock me. MVP Luka would not shock either one
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: of us, right?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, MVP Luka, he's got to be the on-the-board favorite, right?
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: No, I think it's still Jokic.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I'm only saying that because you and I have both
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: been watching this game for a long time. We're not
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: old enough to say that.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: We done seen this season happen many times before. He'll
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: never be in shape like this ever again.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Charles Barkley, 93.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Shaquille O'Neal, 2000. He'll never be in shape quite like
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: this again. Yeah.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I mean... The Chuck MVP was one of those weird
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: things where it wasn't his best season, right? His best
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: season might have been a couple years before, but being traded,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: being on the Olympic team, like he had the push
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: of everything.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Y'all started something like four or five assists a game.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: It was one of those.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: He was a monster. Look, because Kevin Johnson missed something
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: like 30 games and Chuck had to like step in
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and do a bunch of stuff. And that was the
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Richard Dumas year where Richard Dumas looked like the future.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Dude, and that is the forgotten what if.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. He was so freak. Like him, Roy
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Tarpley of the Dallas Mavericks, Roy was the future.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: But we saw a lot more Roy. Richard Dume was
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: put up one year.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And then that was it.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Never again to be seen.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Never again. Like the Shaq MVP where... It's funny. I'm
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: one of those. I'm not a Shaq trooper, but I'm
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: one of those people that's like, yeah, Shaq got the
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: amount of MVPs that he probably deserved. And it was
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: that one. It just might have happened to be the
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: greatest tour de force one season thing that we've ever seen.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's where Luka lands this year, because if nothing else, Bo,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have to worry about to start the season. Remember,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: it's going to be a few weeks before LeBron is reevaluated,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: not returned. Right. So you don't know how long this
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: this lasts. But Luka starts off the season as the
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: number one guy where everybody knows that this is the
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: pecking order, that we're going to go as he goes,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: and then LeBron will come in as he comes in
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: and work his way through whatever version that is. Luka
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: can set the tone in a way that he might
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: not have been able to if LeBron were there. That's
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: not to say the Lakers will be a better team
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: without LeBron. That might be ridiculous. But for Luka himself
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to set the table... This is possibly the best scenario
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: for him to set the table and be a 35-10-10
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: MVP type of candidate.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: While playing for the Lakers and don't let them overperform.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Ooh, baby.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Right? I mean, that's how you.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: You.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Get this really by overperforming. That's the biggest part. Exceeding
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: our expectation. Totally on the board. And you kind of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: touched on it. The next part, what is this year
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: going to be?
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Because.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: it normally ain't this much drama with LeBron to start
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the year. We've already got the word out through McManaman
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: of he's going to be watching, seeing what the Lakers
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: do and then make his decisions. And I'm just trying
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: to figure out where this leverage is that he and
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Rich have.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: The leverage probably lies in the Lakers don't want to
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: egg on their face with a legend leaving them. Like,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I think you look at it and say, If LeBron
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: leaves the Lakers and does not retire, a Laker looks
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: bad for LeBron. If the Lakers view this as LeBron
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: does not retire, a Laker looks bad for us and
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: our lore and our brand and everything that we've been
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: for 50 years, that's a stain on them. That's how
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I think the Lakers and the Laker brand and the
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Jeannie Buss brand feel about that.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Well, they do feel like they're the place that people stay, right?
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Yes. You don't leave the Lakers once you get there.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: They may send you on your way, but you don't
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: leave them.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: But if he leave and go outside, because going outside
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: is on the board.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Now, what does going outside mean? Is he?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you and I talked about this on the phone
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: and we did not really come to a resolution on this. So,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: for example, somehow Kobe Bryant, who was hurt and bad
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: for his last three years, managed to not go out sad.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: But it was because he stayed on the Lakers team
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: that really didn't have much expectation. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did not
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: go out sad, but I think it's because they did
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a farewell tour. but he was that last year Kareem
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: was not a great when people talk about well imagine
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: what all the rings with Kareem 1988 Kareem was not
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you know Kareem of 1980 the last Kareem was 1985 yes.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: And even then, that was for the finals. Right. Like
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: we were still in a declined version, but Kareem did
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: not go outside. Dirk Nowitzki did his farewell tour, did
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: not go outside. Dwayne Wade. did a bit of a tour,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: basically did a tour himself, did not go outside sad.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Whether or not you go out sad has a lot
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to do with how you calibrate our expectations going in
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: to whatever the last year is going to be, right?
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: And what the expectations are of that team. If your
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: thing is I'm still looking for a team to win
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: a championship and then you get there and you're not
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a championship contributor, that's when we start approaching the possibility
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: of going out sad.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Well, the weird thing for LeBron sits in the place of, A,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: in this second tax apron world, or salary cap apron world,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: where he's not going to be taking pay cuts. And
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: nor should he. He's been underpaid for the vast majority
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: of his career. I would never ask somebody to take
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: a pay cut. But if you're going to take up
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: $ 50- plus million in salary cap space, how good of a
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: team can you be with a 42- 41, whatever it is,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: however old he's going to be when he gets to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: that point, type of block on your roster. Can there
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: be a better player who's not making that level of money?
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: And where is that? Like, here's the question. Is there
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: going to be a mad dash to New York City
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: next year? Is it going to be a mad dash
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: between LeBron James and Giannis? Let's see who gets there first.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: If you are the Knicks, why would you do that?
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: As long as LeBron isn't guarding anybody, why would you
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: do that?
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree with you as a whole, and it
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: depends on what happens this year. If the Knicks underachieve
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: this year, anything can be on the board.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: That is true.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. The Knicks are in this weird position
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: where they realize Giannis only wants to go to them
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Right? Or as of August or July, whenever the exclusive...
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I said this the other day. Exclusive negotiating periods have
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: only happened when we're talking about billionaires buying teams from
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: each other, not a player going somewhere.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Exclusive negotiating periods. The hell does that mean? You know
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: what that was?
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: That was Nico Harrison and Rob Pelinka last exclusive. That
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: means don't nobody else know that we talking, right? That's
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: a secret ass relationship, right? That's what that is. But
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: once you get past the first game of the season,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: everything's open. Because all Giannis has to do is get
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: to the end of this year and everything's on the
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: board for him as far as where he might want
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: to go because the whole league is now his oyster.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe New York was just the one place he wanted
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to go this past July. And if you're the Knicks,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: do you want to take that chance of having the
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: whole board open? Or do you want to look at
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: the window now and say, hey, man, if we underachieve
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: and come February, do y'all want to see if we
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: can make this happen?
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, Giannis, to get Giannis, I feel
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: like you got to trade Carl. But to get Giannis,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you fix a lot of problems, right? It's, it's, Jalen
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Breslin doesn't guard anybody. Okay, well, we've got this guy
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: back here.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Because the Knicks can't take in a dollar more, right,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: than what they send out because they're in second apron territory.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: The Bucs are not. So they can take in more.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Not a hell of a lot more, but they can
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: take in more, which means the Knicks can send out more.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: In theory, you could send out Bridges plus OG Ananobi
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: or whatever. You know what I mean? Some iteration. They
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: just don't have the picks and the capital of the picks.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And if you're the Bucs, do you want a 30-plus-year-old
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Carl Towns who's had knee issues?
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Are we old enough that Carl Towns is 30-something years old?
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I think Carl is 30 or about to be 30.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: This is year 11. Year 11.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Everybody getting... I mean, we ain't getting old, but a
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: lot of these young dudes is.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: A lot of these young dudes are getting old, man.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the dudes younger than them are
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: having old people injuries.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: They keep telling me, Jason Tannen, I'm out here dunking.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, take your time, young fella. Take your time.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Ain't no rush.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Ain't no rush.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: You ain't got to be back this year.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: I think he's going to play this year.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I know, and I'm saying... Take your time, yo, fella.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Take your time.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing. You can't tell Jason Tatum
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: to not push his rehab, right?
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: I agree. But they can tell him that we're not
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: going to play you this year. Like, anytime somebody, they're like, yo,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: he came back faster from this injury than anybody else has.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of when Jerry Rice came back from
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: that ACL tear after three months. And then he got
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: his knee broke. Mm-hmm.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, and Jerry Rice is a different level of,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: freakish athlete. That man was running up hills the day
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: after they won the Super Bowl. You know what I mean?
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I bet you he.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Ran up that hill this morning.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: You think Jerry's still waiting on the call?
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I think Jerry just run up that hill. The year
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: they came back from that strike, I was talking to
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Michael Smith once. It was that year the NFL had
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that strike in 87. Jerry Rice had, I want to say,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: 21 touchdown catches in 12 games when they came back.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Because you know, strike people think it ain't gonna come
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: in no time soon they out here doing whatever i'm
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: like jerry rice was out there doing every day the
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: same thing he did today michael smith gonna run that
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: hill i said run that hill.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Y'all think shit sweet this thing go in any day
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: now i'm gonna be out here doing whatever y'all they
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: gonna catch me catch me slipping.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Jerry Rice was 40 years old with a head full
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: of potentially prosthetic dreadlocks running up that hill.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Man, look. Now, do we consider Jerry Rice going outside
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: with the Seahawks? Or do people not remember Jerry Rice
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: as a Seahawk?
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think that people quite remember it. It's a
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: little different with a football player than it is with
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: a baseball or a basketball player. Nobody gets to go
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: out on their own terms at football, really. That's just not...
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: It was amazing that Jerry could still be going, right?
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: But if LeBron out here looking bad... And look, man,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: if he does, it's because he's old. Yeah, it's amazing
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: that he's out there. But I don't... What is it,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: a mellow show they talk about? I forget what they
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: call the jerseys. But it's like ugly jerseys, bad-looking jerseys, right?
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: LeBron out here wearing a Milwaukee Bucks jersey or something
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: like that. It's like, oh, no, brother. No, man. Because
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: they clearly have demonstrated they don't talk to you about
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: trades no more. They just make them.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, at this point, and this would
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: be a serious question that I would ask LeBron. Short of,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: I just want to play because I love playing basketball.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I like the team. Not even the team. I like
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: the routine of being a basketball player. I like the
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: schedule that comes with being a basketball player. You see
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of athletes have problems once they leave the
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: structure of everything that comes with being an athlete. I
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: feel like that's more football players than basketball players, but
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: maybe that's LeBron's thing. I don't even know if it's
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: about winning the argument, that mythical argument anymore. I think
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: he believed he's won the argument, so there's nothing necessarily
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: for him to prove. I just wonder why is he
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: still doing this?
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I talk about this. Gilbert Arenas talks about it on
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: his show all the time, man. When it's over, it's over.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Hold on as long as you can. Maybe that's the
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: way LeBron looks at it, but I don't know. I'm
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: amazed he's still going. It's amazing that he's been as
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: good as he has been, but you're now going to
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: have complications. All these salary caps and all these sports
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: are set up to get high-salary old people out of there.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: High salaries, moderate production, the structure is designed to get
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: them out of there for younger and cheaper. But he's
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: LeBron James. I don't think anybody... The Lakers... Kobe made
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: it easy for them to restart while he was still
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: there and still sell some tickets. You know what I mean?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: This is more confounding than any other aging player.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Well, we don't know what the standard is. We could
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: measure for every other player to large degree, every other
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: great player of reasonable time. Like when Magic came back,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: we knew what Magic was doing. Magic was scratching an
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: itch because he felt like something had been taken away
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: from him. And Magic was productive as all hell on
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: that dog shit Lakers team back then. He was like 16-7-6, right?
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: But we knew what it was. But we knew what
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: it was, right? With Michael, we knew it was, I'm
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: going to play until I can become an owner. I'm
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: just going to play these two years and I'm going
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to become an owner. And then Abe Poland said, no,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Like you could see... The finish line, and we knew
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: what the finish line was, and we knew what the
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: goal was. For LeBron, we don't know what the goal is.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that as a criticism or critique.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: No, we just don't know.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: You just don't know. And he hasn't come out and
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: said it. He's been very, you know, when I go out,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to want a farewell tour, and I'm going
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: to let y'all know ahead of time. And then here's
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: the crazy part for me about that commercial or the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: ad or whatever. And why people were upset. I don't
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: think it was necessarily the part about him parroting the
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: decision and bringing that back into the conversation. I think
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: there's a large element, or it felt like there was
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: a large element of people who are waiting for him
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: to go. And that's a different type of feeling than
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: most players feel. who have given as much to the game,
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: who mean as much to the game as LeBron means
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: to the game. Most people are like, man, cherish these games,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: cherish these moments. You never know when you're going to
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: see another player like this. You're not going to see
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: him again, blah, blah, blah. When he came out and
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: did the okey-doke, which I'm not sure why anybody believed
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: he was going to make his announcement on Instagram that
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: he was retiring, all right, whatever. But if you believe
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: that and the backlash was, why would he take me
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: for a ride? You had the expectation or even the
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: hope that this was over.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had a musical artist that you love
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: and then one day you just didn't check for them
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: no more?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: And so it goes in different scales, but like, I
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: love The Roots. After like, I guess 2010, was that
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Gang Theory the one that came out then or whatever? Yeah,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: after that, I wasn't checking for the next Roots album.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: It's not because, or a better example. My favorite television
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: show is The Simpsons. Number one, I have not gone
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: out of my way to watch a new episode of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: The Simpsons in at least 20 years. It had already
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: been on for 20 years. Right. Or damn near whatever
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: it was. You know what I mean? Right. And if
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: you put The Simpsons on in front of me, I'll
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: probably watch it and enjoy it. But I'm not checking
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: for new Simpsons episodes anymore.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably like Law & Order. You know what
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like, yo, I'm not checking. I'm not looking
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: for the new. Like, they brought Law & Order back.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I ain't trying to see the new. Like, I'm good
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: on that now. It was great. I enjoyed it. But
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: I'm good on that now.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: And I do think that there are people... I still
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: hate Watch Stabler, though. I hate like maybe you know
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: what maybe people hate watch LeBron maybe that maybe maybe
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: it's some element to that I hate watch Stabler you
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: know what I mean I could I could admit that's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: a compelling character that like he be beating up people
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: and he stands for a lot of things that I
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: as a citizen cannot ride with but I'll hate I'll
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: hate watch Stabler you know what I mean and and
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: considering like the events of the past day I cherish
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: the things that I like. I like what I like.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm okay with liking what I like. And you've
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: given what you've given to the world. It is out there.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: You can forever go back to it. Once it is
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: out there in the world, it's for you to keep it,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: for you to do whatever you need to do with it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: So I understand why LeBron may not want to walk
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: away because he may view it similarly to a death.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: And on that note, that is Vinny Goodwill. Check him
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: out at ESPN covering the NBA. My brother, I appreciate you.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Man, I am so mad we couldn't go into crates today.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Another day, brother. Another day. But ladies and gentlemen,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here on The Right Time.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: We do this three times a week, sometimes four. Ryan
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Brumley handing everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: our voicemail line, 323-596-7767. Let us know what is on
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: your mind. And remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like,
• 1:02:21
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• 1:02:24
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• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: of days. Take it easy.