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How To Disagree Better From Julia Minson Receptiveness Is Essential Plus More · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Ero dot net. It's more than just a podcast. It's
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  Speaker 1: Enjoy your exploration. How are you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm great? How are you?
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with
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  Speaker 1: you because you had me at hello with just that
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  Speaker 1: book cover how to disagree Better? And you know what,
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  Speaker 1: I would love to know what everybody else does and
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  Speaker 1: in reacting to those moments where we don't because I
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  Speaker 1: know there's always three reactions for me.
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  Speaker 2: What are your three reactions?
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  Speaker 1: I either pull out my inner Montana and I take
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  Speaker 1: you on and I will win, and number two, I'll
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  Speaker 1: walk away or number three I'll go Really, that's interesting,
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  Speaker 1: let me sit down, let me, let me do some
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  Speaker 1: research and see how close we are and agree in here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Well, and you know, in my mind that
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  Speaker 2: third option is, you know, a great option, the option
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  Speaker 2: of sort of exploring and trying to understand what's happening
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  Speaker 2: and understand the other person's perspective before you decide on
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  Speaker 2: how to you know, approach the situation is something that
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  Speaker 2: most people don't do right. Most people jump into either
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to convince you, I'm going to make you
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  Speaker 2: change your mind, I'm going to prove to you that
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  Speaker 2: you're wrong and I'm right, or people just sort of say, look,
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to have this argument today. This is
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  Speaker 2: not going to lead to anything positive, and they walk away.
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  Speaker 2: And both of those things are lost opportunities, right, because
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  Speaker 2: you could have an interesting conversation, you could learn something,
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  Speaker 2: you could build a better relationship, and you've lost that
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  Speaker 2: opportunity by doing one of the first two things.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you put a lot of focus on receptiveness, and
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  Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those things where it's like
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  Speaker 1: it's okay to have an opposing view, but basically you
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  Speaker 1: need to have the art of listening tucked inside your
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  Speaker 1: front your pocket. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, the book is called How to
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  Speaker 2: Disagree Better. So I'm not saying we have to agree.
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  Speaker 2: I am saying we need to be able to disagree
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  Speaker 2: while being receptive to the other person's perspective. Meaning you know,
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  Speaker 2: when I say receptive, I mean can you really hear it?
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  Speaker 2: Can you think about it? Can you evaluate the merits
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  Speaker 2: of that perspective the way you sort of evaluate the
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  Speaker 2: merits of arguments on your own side, right, So you
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  Speaker 2: don't have to agree, but can you make the same
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  Speaker 2: amount of space in your brain for the things you
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  Speaker 2: disagree with as you know the things you agree with.
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  Speaker 2: So that's really what receptiveness is.
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  Speaker 1: The importance of this book is so way up on
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  Speaker 1: top of the list, and I really do suggest that
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  Speaker 1: listeners go for this book. And the reason why is
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  Speaker 1: because you know, I grew up in this age of
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  Speaker 1: there was a thing called grumpy old man syndrome. I
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  Speaker 1: think that actually starts at twenty nine or thirty years
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  Speaker 1: old nowadays because of the stuff that people have gone through,
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  Speaker 1: So people have got their opinions right away, they're ready
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  Speaker 1: to fight, they're ready to disagree, and it's like, calm down,
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  Speaker 1: get this book in your hands and start getting along
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  Speaker 1: with all generations and not just yourself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and that's exactly right. I think
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  Speaker 2: most of the time when people talk about disagreement, what
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  Speaker 2: they're thinking about these days is political disagreement.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, but you know.
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  Speaker 2: The reality is right, I can go ten years without
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  Speaker 2: ever debating immigration with anybody, right, But I can't go
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  Speaker 2: through life without, you know, talking to my spouse about
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  Speaker 2: how we parent, without talking to my elderly parents about
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  Speaker 2: how they're taking care of themselves, without you know, talking
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  Speaker 2: to people in my workplace about how we do things.
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  Speaker 2: There are some disagreements that are really really important and
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  Speaker 2: actually make a big difference in your life, and so
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  Speaker 2: you've got to be able to navigate those without starting
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  Speaker 2: a bunch of drama and without having the other person
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  Speaker 2: run out.
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  Speaker 1: Of the room. I think one of my biggest disagreements
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  Speaker 1: right now at one of my essential jobs, because I
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  Speaker 1: love being with people, I really do, and that is
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  Speaker 1: is that the younger generation does not care about what's
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  Speaker 1: going on. And people will argue with me on that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going listen, I talk with them. They aren't afraid
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  Speaker 1: that the World war could be right around the corner.
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  Speaker 1: They aren't afraid of the economy. All they care about
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  Speaker 1: is where's my smartphone? Where's my earbuds? And it's like, okay,
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  Speaker 1: just don't argue, don't argue, don't argue. How would you
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  Speaker 1: deal and how are you dealing with this?
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  Speaker 2: Well? You know, I think most people don't like disagreement.
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  Speaker 2: They don't you know, they think of disagreement as you know,
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  Speaker 2: leading to conflict. Right. They don't want to be ostracized
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  Speaker 2: by their peers. And that's you know, when you're a teenager,
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  Speaker 2: there's nothing more important to you than what your friends
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  Speaker 2: think of you. And we as adults, we don't teach
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  Speaker 2: them to disagree, right. We teach them to be polite.
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  Speaker 2: We don't teach them to express their views in a
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  Speaker 2: way that is respectful but also clear and that also
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  Speaker 2: engages the other person conversation. So a lot of what
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  Speaker 2: I'm actually working on right now is creating materials for
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  Speaker 2: high schools to teach kids to disagree better.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, because I deal with a lot
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  Speaker 1: of high schools. Oh my god. And it's not unnecessarily
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  Speaker 1: what I said, it's how I said it. By using
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  Speaker 1: what I call hidden speak. There's a language of all
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  Speaker 1: your own. You can say something and people go what
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  Speaker 1: it used to say? But you know, darn good well
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  Speaker 1: what he just said and or she and it was
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  Speaker 1: meant to be a dagger going into your heart.
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  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, So you have to figure out how
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  Speaker 2: to communicate your intentions more clearly. Right. If you have
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  Speaker 2: good intentions, you've got to use your words to say, Look,
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  Speaker 2: I'm here to understand you, I'm here to learn about
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  Speaker 2: your perspective. I'd like to know where you're coming from,
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  Speaker 2: what experiences you have had, and so, you know, we
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  Speaker 2: don't want to leave people guessing about what our intentions are.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Julia Minsen coming
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  Speaker 1: up next. Hey, thanks for coming back to the conversation.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get back into it with Julia Minson. The book
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about is How to Disagree Better. My question
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  Speaker 1: is is that are we fighting less because we've made
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  Speaker 1: it so easy to ghosting?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? You know. So it's funny. There's like two problems
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  Speaker 2: that are happening at the same time, and they seem
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  Speaker 2: like the opposite problems, but they're actually the same problem.
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  Speaker 2: Where some people are yelling and screaming all the time
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  Speaker 2: and you see this on social media, Right, people just
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  Speaker 2: just like throw grenades out there, and you know, watch
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  Speaker 2: the world blow up and other people people say, I
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  Speaker 2: want to have nothing to do with this. Right, I'm
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  Speaker 2: turning off social media, I'm turning off the news. I'm
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  Speaker 2: never talking about politics again if anybody brings it up.
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  Speaker 2: I'm talking about the weather. And both of those things
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  Speaker 2: are a problem because what that leaves you with is
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  Speaker 2: that only the loudest, most obnoxious people are part of
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  Speaker 2: the conversation. And part of the reason I wrote this
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  Speaker 2: book is because there are lots of people in the
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  Speaker 2: world who don't want conflict, who don't want drama, but
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  Speaker 2: who have interesting things to say and who have interesting
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  Speaker 2: opinions and thoughts that we would all benefit from. So
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  Speaker 2: how do we make disagreement more constructive so that more
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  Speaker 2: people are in the conversation, not just like the loud people.
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  Speaker 1: Julia Cameron in the artist way says that anger is
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  Speaker 1: only a symptom. It has become a weapon here. I
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  Speaker 1: mean it's like, how can And that's what I love
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  Speaker 1: about your book, As you're saying, Hey, look, it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: have to be a weapon. Just listen to it. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: it is a symptom.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think anger usually, you know, in conversation, right,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, there's lots of reasons for anger, But in conversation,
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  Speaker 2: anger often comes from frustration. Right. I've been telling you
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  Speaker 2: how it is, and I'm giving you the facts, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm trying to enlighten you, and you won't change your mind,
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  Speaker 2: and so I get frustrated, and eventually that frustration escalates
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  Speaker 2: into anger. And one way to get out of that
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  Speaker 2: dynamic is to stop treating every conversation like an argument. Right.
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  Speaker 2: I don't need you to change your mind necessarily. What
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  Speaker 2: I need to do is perhaps have a good working
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  Speaker 2: relationship with you, or understand where you're coming from, or
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  Speaker 2: just you know, get out of this conversation unscathed. Right. So,
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  Speaker 2: if we give up the idea of telling people that
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  Speaker 2: they're wrong as the only goal of a conversation, then
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  Speaker 2: we're much less likely to end up in that dynamic
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  Speaker 2: where we're frustrated and angry.
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  Speaker 1: Ten minutes with you is not enough. Where can we
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  Speaker 1: go to find out more about you? Because I know
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  Speaker 1: as I dive into your book, I'm yellow highlighting the
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  Speaker 1: whole damn thing. And it's such a great tool, but
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  Speaker 1: I want to know more about you, and I'm sure
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  Speaker 1: listeners do too.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So my website is Disagreeingbetter dot com and the
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  Speaker 2: book is how to Disagree Better and you can get
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  Speaker 2: it today and where books are sold.
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  Speaker 1: I love it. Please come back to this show anytime
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  Speaker 1: in the future. This is an everyday thing. This is
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  Speaker 1: not like, oh, we're going to talk about it at
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  Speaker 1: the beginning of spring. We need to be talking about
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  Speaker 1: this more often or am I disagreeing with somebody here?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely?
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  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, thank you.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. Have a wonderful day.