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Meg Brennan - Mapping Your Career Growth in the Channel · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Underworld, the podcast where we underval the mysteries about channels and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effa and I'm excited to announce our special guest, Matt Caridon.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited for the conversation.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could give us a bit of an introduction, tell us who you are and where you come from.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I work for HP Inc., not uh, which is different than HPE.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're the company that helps, you know, solve the future of work for um employees at all all the companies in the world.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I like to keep it simple.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're the printer laptop people.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my role at HP is that uh my job is to really help uh the company grow through our partnerships.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I lead our partner strategy um programs and experience worldwide for HP.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you describe HP as if people don't know, but we we had several guests.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We had you know Mary Batt, we had David Rosio, Jennifer Judy at HP.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So quite familiar also with HP and excited for the conversation today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Meg, you started.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well lots of people confuse us with HPE.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Yeah, I I know, yeah, it's completely different.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: You started back in the 90s, Meg, you know, taking partner calls and shipping physical software.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Today you're at a much different place.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're at HP, a giant, uh, a global tech giant, and you're leading strategic channel initiatives.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear how those early experiences shaped uh how you lead today in your position.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a great question.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my early experiences answering the dealer sales line was my first job at a software company where we did ship boxes with manuals of, you know, software um to now, where guess what?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: We still ship boxes with laptops, no manuals anymore that I'm aware of.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think that, you know, what I learned there, I mean, I've certainly gotten stronger and more strategic, but the things that I learned there about um serving the customer and that things uh start, you know, with the customer, I think that they carry through.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, you know, the world has changed um and my roles have evolved back, you know, zigzagged a little bit really over time.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but in the end, right, any software or hardware you create has a user in mind.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, we're all here, the whole ecosystem.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: The purpose is to serve the customer.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we the best approach is to start with the value and go backwards from it, right?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are we adding?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we adding value and going backwards?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I can also imagine the channel has changed significantly over three decades, more than three decades.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: It really has.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, back then we did work with distributors.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So Ingram and Maricel were two of my distributors.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ingram is still one of my distributors today, along with many, many others.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh, but the primary route to market really was a resale route to market.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you were engaging with partners who would sell your product, right?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they would ship it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: You would ship to them and they would ship to the customer.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um now we have evolved into you know much more intertwined and enmeshed partner ecosystems where you know there's never just one partner in on a deal.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Often there's multiple partners on a deal that sometimes we don't even know who they are, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if we're selling um a workstation, right, to solve a data science solution, there could be we might have a reseller who's selling that product.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: There could be a consultant who's in there helping design LLM models, doing things like that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: There could be a global system integrator involved as well, helping serve that same customer.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all influencing the choices that that end customer makes around their technology.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to be like a little bit more detective than we used to have to be.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds complicated, and it probably is complicated.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I can imagine that you have a very complex but fun job, Meg.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you mentioned in the when we were preparing for this podcast, you mentioned that your typical move was you always, you know, look at your manager's jobs and you thought to yourself, I could do that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's first of all, it's also something that I have it in me as well, and I love that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give to someone who is you know in the channel who doesn't feel ready, but they're actually closer than they think?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So for a really long time, I was like, hey, I do operations or I do customer service, or I, you know, whatever job I was in, I was like, I do that, but I don't do strategy, but I don't do strategy.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um and then I would get a little closer to strategy, or I would do a little bit of strategy relative to the area that I was in.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when I worked as a director of channel operations, I was doing the partner system strategy.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: What systems should we have?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: How should we support those systems?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a strategic element.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when they expanded my role in that in that job then to adding the programs, I was like, oh, this is super scary.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my manager at the time, who's a great woman named Cindy Herndon, said to me, you know, hey, you're already doing strategy.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can do this next step of strategy.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um she was right, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just had to kind of think about, you know, what we were trying to design for, and then I could do it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, I mean, that's how I ended up at HP, leading, you know, our global channel strategy, our global partner strategy, was really just saying, hey, bit by bit, you know, I have evolved my skill set.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think one of the important things for me is that, you know, I did not come up in a very linear line.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I did not, you know, start in one area, you know, let's say as a uh channel account manager and then work into a channel sales manager and then work into my job.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, you know, I started sort of in customer service sales, dealer sales, and then I went and did instructional design and project management and product management and ERP implementation methodologies and you know, channel marketing, and then, you know, so I've zigzagged a lot in my career, and I think it gives me, but but always kind of in the tech side and usually either directly in channels or adjacent.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got a much broader awareness of what needs to happen to be successful with partners that I think has served me well as I have moved into a more of a leadership role and start in strategy.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I always think that you know, the more different positions that you have in your career, you don't have to go to in a linear path.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that you, as you mentioned as well, having that different background is giving you a very unique approach.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you get to see things that other people that come from the traditional background might not have noticed.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And also you mentioned that you know you had your manager who maybe gave you that position, trusted in you, and you know, you that's how you started getting into strategy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you it seems like you have this growth mindset always, you know, jumping into roles and developing that skill over time.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned that you actually built a tool that helps map out role skills and personal preferences to guide someone's growth.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you walk us through what that tool does?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: How does it look like it might be kind of an elaborate thing to call it?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is a one-page PowerPoint slide.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this slide has been used by me, by several other people, by people that I mentor and people who I have reported to and who now lead companies um to develop their career.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's super simple.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine, right, a PowerPoint slide, if you will.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in the middle, you're gonna have three, maybe three boxes, right?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: One is kind of here's my job right now and the skill sets that I have my job.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: The next one is here's the next job that I want, and here are the skill sets that are different in that job, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, from the job I have now.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe the next one is like, here's my five-year job, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here's well, here's where I'm trying to get to ultimately.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the path you think you might want to go on.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, you could have multiple ones of these.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then to the left of that, you list out kind of what you're really good at.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And like, and you have to be honest with yourself.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, I'm really good, I'm really good at process design, right?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really good at um, you know, I'm good at networking now.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't never used to be, but I'm good at networking now.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have a good, strong network, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then below that you list out your personal preferences.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, I uh don't like to work at a job where I have to be on calls earlier than 7 a.m.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: because it's too early.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it makes me ill.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I but I love to be on international teams because I like to work with people all over the world.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like to travel and visit people, um, but not all the time, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you list your personal preferences.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and kind of first, this combination of things helps you when you start to look at new roles, helps you look at, hey, does that fit my skill set?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And does it also fit my personal preferences?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I was last looking for a new role, I would, you know, there were some roles that came up where, you know, I could be maybe head of US channel sales for a company.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I had to look and go, well, is that gonna give me that the things that I like?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, time-wise, yeah, that's a good, you know, good time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But oh, I'm not gonna get to like have that intercultural, like, you know, it's not that different to work with somebody in California or New York, you know.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would miss out on that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how important is that to me?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're looking at those things for your personal preference.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, things can be really different as your career evolves.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to update these.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that helps you filter about like what jobs really are suited to you.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then down below that is, you know, okay, so what do what skills do I need to build?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So longer term.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, like skills I need to build, maybe for my manager's job now, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't spend as much time with analysts or with the press.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd like to do more of that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't spend, I don't present to huge audiences that often.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe 300, but not a thousand.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that makes me a little nervous, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So these are things, skills that I would need to build.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's plenty more.
• 11:00
  unknown: Right.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then down below that you say, what's my immediate action plan?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, what am I gonna do in the next 30 days or maybe 60 days to actually start to build the skills that I need.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it's not everybody thinks that like you're it's a development plan, I'm gonna go take training, which is great, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it might be I'm gonna go take a training, I'm gonna go take a public speaking training, I'm gonna go join Toastmasters.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it can also be things like I'm gonna ask my manager to include me on the analyst calls because I want to learn what she does so I can learn to do that.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to um ask to be invited to a distribution meeting in Germany, you know, or in Europe or something like that, like very tactical things.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that tool is then something you can also take to your manager or sponsors or other people who might be in a position to hire you to seek their input.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you can say, hey, here's where I am now, here's where I want to go.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, here's the skills I think I need to build.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think that that's what the job needs?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that's right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you say, Well, here's my next steps, right, to build those skills.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you can actually validate that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be really open to the input, though.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's for somebody to say, you missed something.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to honestly then, you know, not be overconfident and say, you're right, I missed it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I need to add something about that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, one of the great things about this is as you build those skills, and especially if the person who might promote you or give you a new job, uh, then you can go back and you can be like, okay, here's what I've done, right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: You you said here was the skills, here's what I've done.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: What what else do you think I'm missing?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and then you almost have a contract to get that promotion or that job as soon as it becomes available through that technique.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but you have to be pretty brave to you know put yourself out in front of people and tell them what you want.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you can have multiple versions, by the way.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to like have one career path in mind.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can have three in mind, and you have three different slides that you work from.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's I it's a silly, like not sophisticated tool, but the simplicity of it means I can do it a couple times a year and refresh it and go have that conversation and continue to develop in my career.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great tool.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna ask you a favor, Meg.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that you also have a cool design, cool template.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe if you could share with us, then I can put it in the description if the for the episode.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I personally know a lot of people are looking for their next position, whether they have been impacted by layoffs or no, they're just maybe not happy in their role.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to share this for our audience for them to you know download it and use it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll share like a prior version of one that I did earlier in my career.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that this would be a real one.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not fan, it's it is not a fancy template.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like the template itself does not take long to create for yourself.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can imagine, but I guess it's also kind of nice to have it ready to go.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll maybe I'll ask with my internal marketing team to make it a bit fancier.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we have something with our audience.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh speaking about layouts and you know, finding positions, I want to talk about AI.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, also from your perspective, I'm curious about what you hear, but you're optimistic about the upside that AI is bringing, has already brought and is going to bring in the future.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, like a lot of people, you also raise the concern about it eliminating junior roles.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I know personally a lot a lot of people who are recent graduates are really struggling to find jobs right now.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like entry jobs are eliminating, has been eliminated quite fast, and it's been really hard to find a job if you don't have prior experience.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is a problem that we need to address as the ecosystem, uh, because it's going to be a problem for all of us in the future.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you think the next generation of channel professionals and channel leaders will actually get started?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a really good question.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um I have a 23-year-old son who decided to go to grad school, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because the market for he and his classmates um has really not been good.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I know the exact boat that they that they are in, and they they're not channel people.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but uh because there I don't think there's a degree in channel sales, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or partner sales.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you know, channels is is even sort of an old school term, yet I still use it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I am I am worried about the next generation.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I that so I think there's a negative.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the short term, those entry-level jobs are getting really hard to find.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um the you know the ICAM role or the kind of entry-level partner support role is being replaced by a chatbot or by automation.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's a problem for those people that are coming in.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And how are we gonna develop the next generation people that have the knowledge, right, that we put in.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that on the positive side, there's nobody better at learning new technology and adopting it than the next generation.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So as we think about, you know, I at HP, I think about how are we gonna develop the new, the Gen Z experience, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: By I heard, you know, I don't have the research study, but I heard by 2030, you know, 60% of IT decision makers are gonna be millennial or Gen Z.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So every single one of these companies needs to be able to deliver an experience that those generations want.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And these are cloud native, like cloud native, they're gonna be AI native people.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not gonna be able to create those without AI native people to create them.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for that next generation, leaning in to learn how to be the creators of those tools, and then they can, you know, lean back on us for maybe the business expertise to populate the LLMs and all of the things that they create, um, they will absorb the knowledge as they go.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or it will be at their fingertips, just as, you know, the reality is I don't have to do math anymore because I got a calculator, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't, or, or Excel, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And now, you know, I've got a chatbot that doesn't do math yet, but it will.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they certainly don't yet.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I do I'm optimistic that that things will evolve and there will be something, but I think we are in for a really bad short-term situation for um young person unemployment in the professional sector.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're already seeing it in the data as well.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not an economist also.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I did study economic economics, but definitely not on economics.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then you probably know better than I do.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I heard the state also.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the US, for the first time, unemployment rate is higher for university graduates than non-university graduates.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard of this?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's crazy.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard of that, but it does not surprise me.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It does not surprise me.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I'm worried about it, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm, you know, I am the mother of children, I mean, children that age, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um thankfully my daughter went into nursing.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll take a long time before that gets replaced by AI.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, my son was an astrophysicist, and so the economy does did not smile fondly on that at his graduation.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh now he's you know going into more of a data science focused um grad to you know grad program that hopefully, you know, will get him trained to become the AI guru that will get him a job when he graduates from that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's he's lucky.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: If he studied astrophysics, he must be smart, and then he has you as a mentor and a leader.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that he's in a lucky place.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's smart, far smarter than I am.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Far smarter.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Both of my kids are.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking of like mentorship, also, um, you know, you've been you worked on some serious channel infrastructure in your current role, in your previous roles, but you also I remember you saying that your legacy is actually the careers that you helped shape.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um how did you come to see you know developing people, helping people, mentoring them as the most important, maybe also the most fulfilling part of your job?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I love, I mean, I'm a highly productive person and uh I like to get things done.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm successful professionally because of that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I realized I actually um was up for a promotion in a prior job that I didn't get.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it wasn't just then because I'd already been mentoring people, but you know, I thought, well, if this, if climbing this ladder isn't going to work for me at this time, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, at the time it wasn't, what else can I be doing to give myself that um satisfaction that I'm doing the right things in the world, that my children will be proud of me, that my maybe someday grandchildren will be proud of me.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I actually at you know, my last role, I started the women's um ERG, so our women's resource group, and I started mentoring several women.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I continue to do that at HP.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I've realized that if I can help, you know, five people get more successful in their career, it's actually it's good for all of us.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me feel good, which I like, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of a personal satisfaction thing, but it also makes every company I work for and every company they work for more successful.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it makes them have better lives.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like it helps them to have better lives.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh boy, like who couldn't want to have you know that at the end, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna regret not going to another Zoom meeting or Teams meeting.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people this all the time.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I'm gonna be on my deathbed saying, I didn't get to that email.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had 500 unred emails, which probably I do.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I would regret not helping somebody who asked for help.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's something I try to do.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I fully agree.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: What you said about you're not going to regret, you know, missing a Zoom call, uh, you know, maybe missing a presentation.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like when you look back, this like the things that you're going to remember are going to be mostly about the people.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the people that you help are people that who have helped you.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this all the time, I'm gonna say it again, but like we spend so much time also with the people that we work together with, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Such a, you know, the the time we spend in our jobs is such a big part of our lives.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just makes it so much fulfilling and joyful to build something meaningful, like have a have a good friendship, first of all, have a good mentorship.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes both ways as well, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: You as a mentor, the the people that you are mentoring, you get something out of that as well.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not only, you know, fulfillment, maybe you help them, but it's also maybe they show you something different, they give you a different perspective because they come from a different background.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I mean, I've hired people who then later hired me.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so doing right by people, regardless of what role you're in and treating people well, um, number one, like it just means you're a better human, you know, you're a decent person.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: But number two, it could serve you well in the future.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, what I mean, I couldn't believe when I I mean I was laid off from a role and um I had so many people who stepped up for me who recommended me for roles or who looked at my resume and said, like in all like in real honesty, like, hey, I think your resume is not reflecting who you really are.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it needs to shine like you do, you know, I can help you with that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, so I try to pass it forward and do the same for other people.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, you know, I'm a big believer in like if we help each other out, the world's a you know warmer, beautiful, more beautiful place.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the world's warmer anyway.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: That is your unfortunately.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it seems like you have built a really great network over time.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: For those from people, for those people who are listening, who are also thinking about okay, how can I improve my network?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe people are also at the beginning of their careers.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: How can they start building meaningful relationships with, you know, with with to to build like a network that can also help them, you know, get jobs, help them get to places who can give them real feedback about their you know, resumes and things like that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the reality.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I used to think, like, and I'm an introvert a bit by nature, I used to think, oh, networking.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's like ask, you know, you've it feels very gratuitous, it feels artificial.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it wasn't until I said, well, like I like to help people, like, you know.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if I go into it thinking, hey, I have something to give, um, and whether I ever get something in return or not, um, I will give something.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, number one, like it just feels like a better use of my time than going to try and get business or things like, you know, I can't do that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if I feel like I have something to give, um, and I get to know people, then, you know, so I do.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've attended the channel focus thing, the women of the channel.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I go to local partnership leaders events, and these are all ways that I meet people in the industry.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: But when I go, I don't go thinking, oh, I'm gonna go get business for either my company or a job lead for me.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I go thinking, oh, how can I, you know, how can I help?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: How should I offer to do like, you know, I'm happy to be on a panel, I'm happy to do a podcast, I'm happy to, um, and I think it serves me well in the serves me well in the long term.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have a you know, a great network who I help and they help me.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's very um symbiotic.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that also I'm also not someone who a person who like networks naturally.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I also have the same feeling when I hear the word networking, like I also had that in me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh definitely also introverted by nature as well, but also when I approach this, I think one of the most fulfilling parts of my job is running this podcast and getting to know people like yourself, other leaders.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's super interesting.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think how I approach is always like really curious to learn where people come from and like what kind of stories that they have.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess also having that approach is is going to make it much easier for everyone.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you you go to those events kind of like with a curious mindset rather than like I'm going to get something out of it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been my kind of approach to how I do it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're the same that way, right?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super, I'm I'm really interested in other people.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one-on-one is always easier.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when I'm having a conversation, I try to be present.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Try to be, not always perfect, but try to be present with the conversation.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's the best way.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Before I let you go, Meg, first of all, thanks so much for joining us again.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for the conversation.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have one last question for you.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I guess as a someone who's responsible for a channel strategy at a tech giant at HP, what's on your ray radar right now?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's what do you think is the channel landscape going to look like in a few years?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's really on your mind?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can give you kind of, you know, there's the kind of party line, HP answer, right, AI, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: The AI, we're we're we're selling AI PCs and they're helping people do their jobs.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I really believe that actually.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so not just the party line, but I do believe that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um but on the other side, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's just that's not just channels, but that's where I work.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um from a channel perspective, I think we are right at the beginning of a complete transformation, a complete evolution of how we manage channels.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um I could be a little controversial, but thinking of kind of Gen Z and thinking about how uh my kids and their, you know, their friends like to operate, uh, I think that relationships are going to be less important.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not interesting.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'll still have your work relationships, but the sales relationships because guess what?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: They expect an Amazon experience on everything that they do, and they do all of their research before or they do it online.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think there will still be some things that relationships matter, but I think for a lot of technology, uh, I think that the role of the CAM may change dramatically or go away to be something totally different.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I am, you know, maybe that's five years, maybe that's 10 years, right?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: As the they call it the silver wave, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: These people who are all going to retire, which maybe I'll be part of someday.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um as we are replaced by the people who prefer not to make phone calls, not to they don't they don't ever answer the phone, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Unless they're your kids and they have to, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: They don't answer the phone if somebody calls they don't know.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like to email, they don't even read their emails, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: How are we gonna get them from?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be totally different.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm excited.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm excited because I think that we'll we'll we'll need them to help us do that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you first said that relationships are gonna be less important in the future, I was like, first of all, that's an interesting thing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: But now that you explained, I feel like I actually agree with you because the data says the same thing as well, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now the the new generation of buyer conducts most of their research online, and I think like about eight percent of the way.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: They if they can, they will never speak to a salesperson, but then they will keep the salesperson maybe like 8% of the journey what be after they do all the research.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that I think that you're onto something for sure.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't and by the way, I should be I should rephrase, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I should rephrase.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the relationships aren't won't be important, sales relationships may not be important.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as important.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your the you know, expertise will still be important, the people that you know that recommend things will still be important.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So just the way that you get that influence may not be through your your sales relationship.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: A sales rep or a cam or a may not have the same influence that they have today.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess we can both agree that one thing is going to be certain, the the role of trust is going to still remain critical.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Trust in brands, trust in people.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Trust.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Trust in brands, process, integrity, security is still going to be absolute, but even more so, probably.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Even more so.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's going to be harder and harder with AI to know who the bad actors are.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Meg, thanks so much for joining us.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for this great conversation.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, for anyone who wants to reach out to Meg, I'll make sure to put your LinkedIn in the description and see you in the next episode.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.