Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Teen Girl JILLIAN Shot Dead by CAREER CRIMINAL WALKING FREE

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Teen Girl JILLIAN Shot Dead by CAREER CRIMINAL WALKING FREE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.
0:13
Speaker 2: Furious parents, angry, full of grief, of mourning, of red
0:21
Speaker 2: hot anger.
0:22
Speaker 3: Why because their teen girl.
0:26
Speaker 2: Absolutely stunning with a loving heart, musically so talented, Their
0:35
Speaker 2: teen daughter, Jillian is dead, dead from a stray bullet
0:45
Speaker 2: fired by a career criminal. This little girl out just
0:52
Speaker 2: walking in a park on a track, minding her own business.
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Speaker 3: She's dead, dead at the.
1:01
Speaker 2: Hands of a career criminal that should have been behind bars.
1:07
Speaker 2: How many more times are we going to stand by
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Speaker 2: and let this happen in our great country? How many
1:16
Speaker 2: more times will politicians get away with lad blah blah
1:20
Speaker 2: trying to explain why yet another innocent person is dead
1:24
Speaker 2: because the justice system failed because of overcrowding in jails,
1:29
Speaker 2: because of incompetence, of letting somebody walk that should have
1:34
Speaker 2: been doing hard jail time or at least in a facility.
1:38
Speaker 2: How can you, as a judge, as a prosecutor, as
1:42
Speaker 2: a defense attorney, with a good conscience, in good conscience,
1:46
Speaker 2: let somebody walk out that courthouse door, knowing they are
1:51
Speaker 2: a threat to others in doing nothing. If I had
1:56
Speaker 2: my way, which of course I don't, that'll be behind
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Speaker 2: bars along with the killer. I Nancy Grace. This is
2:05
Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
2:08
Speaker 2: Crime Stories and Serious x SEM one eleven. What happened?
2:12
Speaker 4: Listen?
2:13
Speaker 5: Enjoying the beautiful weather in Nashville. Jillian Ludwig is walking
2:16
Speaker 5: on the track in edge Hill Community Memorial Gardens Park
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Speaker 5: at two thirty in the afternoon when gunshots ring out
2:22
Speaker 5: across the street from the park. Not the intended target.
2:26
Speaker 5: She is hidding the head with a stray bullet and
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Speaker 5: falls to the ground. Nobody else is on the track.
2:31
Speaker 5: Jillian Ludwig suffers for nearly an hour before she has
2:34
Speaker 5: found a passer by fines Ludwig and calls for help
2:37
Speaker 5: at three point thirty and she's transported to Vanderbilt University
2:40
Speaker 5: Medical Center in very critical condition.
2:42
Speaker 4: All right there, I want to find out everything.
2:45
Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to family and friends of Jillian's
2:50
Speaker 2: family first too, Marissa Sulik joining us out of Nashville
2:55
Speaker 2: with w SMV.
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Speaker 4: Marrissa, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: First of all, this is in broad daylight at two
3:01
Speaker 2: point thirty in the afternoon.
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Speaker 6: To thirty in the afternoon. Yup, you're right, Nancy. It
3:06
Speaker 6: was she was out for a run, a walk, and me.
3:09
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm a runner too. I ran past that
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Speaker 6: park and this just happened. And she was laying there
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Speaker 6: for an hour before that passerby waved police down. And
3:21
Speaker 6: we've heard from police that they actually someone at the precinct,
3:25
Speaker 6: which is right by that park as well, heard a bullet.
3:28
Speaker 6: They heard a gunshot, and someone went to go check
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Speaker 6: it out, didn't find anything, and it took a whole
3:34
Speaker 6: hour for finally that passerby to wave someone down.
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Speaker 2: So she lies there on this track for nearly an
3:42
Speaker 2: hour before anyone realizes she's been shot. To Jerry Wainwright,
3:50
Speaker 2: a special guest joining us, right, Jillian Ludwig, that's got
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Speaker 2: to torture the mom and dad so much, knowing their
4:02
Speaker 2: daughter laid there and suffered before anyone even found her.
4:08
Speaker 7: It does, it does. I have to say that we
4:11
Speaker 7: have all drawn some comfort from the fact that Jillian
4:15
Speaker 7: likely never saw it coming. She had her AirPods in.
4:22
Speaker 7: I'm sure she didn't hear the shots ring out. I
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Speaker 7: know I've heard that there were six. I don't know
4:28
Speaker 7: if the first bullet hitter or the fourth, or but regardless,
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Speaker 7: I think the element of surprise allows us to find
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Speaker 7: some comfort in that to know that she wasn't terrified
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Speaker 7: or scared or attacked or that for her it was
4:48
Speaker 7: it was unexpected. And I believe from what I understand
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Speaker 7: that she was unconscious from the moment she was hit
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Speaker 7: and unaware, and that is reassuring somehow.
5:00
Speaker 2: You're right, because to doctor Sherry Schwartz, joining US forensic
5:04
Speaker 2: psychologists specializing in victim advocacy and criminal cases. You can
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Speaker 2: find her at panthermitigation dot com. She is the author
5:12
Speaker 2: of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect issues
5:18
Speaker 2: in legal psychology, Doctor Sherry, I mean, to this day
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Speaker 2: I like to tell myself my fiancee Keith didn't feel anything,
5:27
Speaker 2: didn't know anything because he was shot five.
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Speaker 4: Times in the head, the neck, the back.
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Speaker 2: But he was actually alive, still alive when his body
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Speaker 2: when he was transported to the hospital. He was alive
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Speaker 2: when he got there. If I really look at it
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Speaker 2: and the cold light of day, he probably did feel
5:51
Speaker 2: much of what happened to.
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Speaker 8: You know, Nancy, I'm so sorry that that happened to
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Speaker 8: you and sorry to Jillian Ludwig's family. Scene about what
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Speaker 8: we know about what victims go through is that torture
6:04
Speaker 8: and look how many years ago that you went through
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Speaker 8: this and you still think about it. This is the
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Speaker 8: kind of deep, complex trauma that quite literally can torture
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Speaker 8: victims and their loved ones. It is unconscionable that this happened,
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Speaker 8: and that the laws in place didn't protect Jillian, and
6:30
Speaker 8: that her family has to suffer this tremendous law.
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Speaker 2: I just hate the road they're going down. It's a
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Speaker 2: road that's going to last the rest of their lives.
6:42
Speaker 2: Because you know, doctor.
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Speaker 4: Sherry Sports, you know what.
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Speaker 2: Let me throw this to Andy conn joining me, a
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Speaker 2: long time colleague and now friend, Director of Victim Services
6:51
Speaker 2: and Advocacy Crimestoppers of Houston.
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Speaker 4: Andy.
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Speaker 2: A lot of times even now, and now I'm married
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Speaker 2: to David, I have the twins that I'm my number
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Speaker 2: one concern on this earth anyway. But I still wake
7:06
Speaker 2: up and I think sometimes in the very early morning,
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Speaker 2: around five o'clock when I normally wake up, I wake
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Speaker 2: up thinking about Keith slumped over in that truck, how
7:17
Speaker 2: they been shot.
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Speaker 4: So many times, And it's almost as if.
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Speaker 2: I'm feeling what he felt like. Did it feel like
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Speaker 2: just he got hit in the head when he fell over?
7:30
Speaker 2: Did he realize what happened to him? Was he aware
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Speaker 2: when paramedics put him on a gurney? Did he try
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Speaker 2: to move his arms and legs and he couldn't?
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Speaker 4: Did it hurt?
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Speaker 2: I mean this to this day, and I guess that
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Speaker 2: means I was dreaming about it because I'm thinking about
7:46
Speaker 2: it as I wake up. And then when I look
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Speaker 2: at the twins, I think, will anything happen to them today?
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Speaker 4: Will they be safe? You know, it lasts a lifetime.
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Speaker 9: Andy, as you know, you know as a board member
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Speaker 9: of the Houston Chapter of Parents Murger Children, and I've
8:00
Speaker 9: been working in assisting homicide survivors now for over thirty years.
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Speaker 9: You essentially, as you phrase it, you got a life
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Speaker 9: sentence as well. This just doesn't go away. There is
8:12
Speaker 9: no such word like the media likes to use as closure.
8:16
Speaker 9: But for the Ludwigs family, the grief is intensified because
8:20
Speaker 9: now you find out the background of the defendant who's
8:25
Speaker 9: now going to be charged with Jillian's murder. And the
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Speaker 9: reality is, and this is how I phrase it, is
8:32
Speaker 9: the offender deserves his fair share of the blame, but frankly,
8:37
Speaker 9: I blame are incompetent and this is probably the only
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Speaker 9: time you're going to actually hear the word incompetent with
8:44
Speaker 9: the right usage. I blame the incompetence of the Tennessee
8:49
Speaker 9: justice system for allowing a known habitual violent offunder with
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Speaker 9: a rap sheet going back to two thousand eleven, with
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Speaker 9: multiple convictions involving a gun, and you put him right
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Speaker 9: back in the same community, knowing full well he's going
9:10
Speaker 9: to continue his criminal career. The state of Tennessee, from
9:15
Speaker 9: my perspective, is culpable and frankly, even more complicit in
9:20
Speaker 9: the murder of Julian This really picks me up.
9:24
Speaker 2: Do you not just hear me say at the get go,
9:26
Speaker 2: I think they should all be in jail with him.
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Speaker 9: Oh absolutely.
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Speaker 2: I think there's an echo, and that echo is Andy Kahn.
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Speaker 3: But you're right, How can you in good conscience?
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Speaker 2: I mean Andy, after Keith murder, I never discussed Keith
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Speaker 2: murder with anyone. I went through all my years of
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Speaker 2: law school. I dropped out of school, went back to
9:47
Speaker 2: college to finish through two jobs before I made it
9:52
Speaker 2: to the DA's office. Do you know I was in
9:53
Speaker 2: the DA's office full ten years in the inter city Atlanta.
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Speaker 2: I think I only confided to maybe two people the
10:00
Speaker 2: whole time I was there about what had happened to Keith.
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Speaker 4: And do you know every time I even got.
10:06
Speaker 2: So much as a theft receiving stolen vehicle, I would
10:10
Speaker 2: read their rap sheet and I would think, with every case,
10:13
Speaker 2: is this guy gonna get out and kill somebody? Is
10:18
Speaker 2: there any indication he's going to do that? Because if
10:21
Speaker 2: there is, he's going to jail for as long as
10:23
Speaker 2: I can keep him there.
10:38
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grease.
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Speaker 2: I don't know how in good conscious you could send
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Speaker 2: this guy back out the courthouse door. And now Jillian,
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Speaker 2: beautiful teen, Jillian is dead.
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Speaker 5: Listen as Jillian Ludwig finds for her life. Vanderbilt University
11:01
Speaker 5: Medical Center police arrest twenty nine year old Shaquille Taylor.
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Speaker 5: According to a police affidavit. Surveillance video and witness statements
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Speaker 5: pointed to Taylor as the shooter. Video shows Ludwig falling
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Speaker 5: as Taylor fires at a nearby car. Jillian Ludwig, the
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Speaker 5: eighteen year old Belmont University freshman student, died overnight.
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Speaker 2: Miss Wainwright is with Jerry Wainwright, the great of Jillian Ludwig.
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Speaker 2: Miss Wainwright, when did you learn Jillian had died.
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Speaker 7: I was there. I was at the hospital with her.
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Speaker 7: I had flown down that morning on a six am
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Speaker 7: flight after I had heard that she had been shot
11:42
Speaker 7: to be supportive of my family, so I knew in
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Speaker 7: real time it was the worst day of my life
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Speaker 7: without exception. You know, we're talking about the shooter and
11:56
Speaker 7: the injustice of it all, and the reality is of
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Speaker 7: this higher situation that the people that deemed him unfit
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Speaker 7: to stand trial yet not reaching whatever benchmark they have
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Speaker 7: in place for involuntary commitment, are most definitely at fault
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Speaker 7: here because this man in his most recent his most
12:18
Speaker 7: recent arrest was for shooting a gun at a car
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Speaker 7: with a woman in two babies in it. I'm not
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Speaker 7: sure how anybody in their right mind could determine that
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Speaker 7: he was not a danger to others when the decision
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Speaker 7: was made to really.
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Speaker 2: Did you say, shooting at a car with a lady
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Speaker 2: and two children in the car?
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Speaker 7: A three year old and a one year old were
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Speaker 7: in that car. He was arrested for aggravated assault in
12:45
Speaker 7: April for shooting at a car with a woman and
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Speaker 7: two babies in it.
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Speaker 3: Marisa Sheelick, Is this true?
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Speaker 6: Absolutely true?
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Speaker 7: He was released based on the fact that he was
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Speaker 7: inconfidence and that he was not a danger to others.
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Speaker 2: So they're saying, well, well, he's incompetent to stand trial,
13:02
Speaker 2: but that.
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Speaker 7: He was not a danger to others. And he clearly
13:05
Speaker 7: what do you what do you have to do to
13:07
Speaker 7: prove that you're a danger to others when you've shot
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Speaker 7: at human beings in a car.
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Speaker 2: So they don't send him in jail, and they don't
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Speaker 2: send him to a facility to treat him.
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Speaker 9: Neither one Nancy in this. In May of twenty three,
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Speaker 9: that's when they released him from custody on the aggravated
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Speaker 9: assault with the deadly when he shot into the car.
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Speaker 9: And here's where it gets even more infuriating, because four
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Speaker 9: months later, in September, he's charged with autosep as part
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Speaker 9: of a carjacking ring. So now you're charged with another felony,
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Speaker 9: but you're deemed suitable to be released on bail after
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Speaker 9: three months. You were just declared and competent, yet you're
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Speaker 9: released on bail. And of course he doesn't show up
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Speaker 9: the next day.
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Speaker 2: Andy, you're preaching to the choir, Matthew Mangino, I hear
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Speaker 2: you jumping in, but I want you to hear some
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Speaker 2: thing else, Matthew, you're hearing Jerry Wainwright, who is the
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Speaker 2: great aunt of Jillian, teen girl, Jillian Ludwig, who has
14:10
Speaker 2: now passed away. This is a heavily residential area. And
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Speaker 2: this guy, the defendant, is shooting a gun at a
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Speaker 2: car again.
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Speaker 4: We've had a car jacking.
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Speaker 2: We've had him shooting at a car with a lady
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Speaker 2: and her two babies in the car. Now he shoots
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Speaker 2: at a car again, and he ends up shooting this
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Speaker 2: beautiful girl, Jillian. Jerry, when did you learn she had
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Speaker 2: been shot? Where were you?
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Speaker 7: I was at work on Tuesday night. My niece called
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Speaker 7: me at work and at first said that Jillian because
14:47
Speaker 7: we didn't know. She said that she had been hurt
14:49
Speaker 7: and that she was in the hospital, and you know,
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Speaker 7: we rushed to get her to get her on a flight,
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Speaker 7: and then I texted my mind. Then my niece called
15:01
Speaker 7: me back and said, she's been shot in the head.
15:02
Speaker 7: She's been hysterical, she's been shot in the head. And
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Speaker 7: I just said, you know, I mean, what do you
15:10
Speaker 7: say to that? It was it was unconscionable, right, like,
15:14
Speaker 7: that isn't even possible. So I told her that I
15:18
Speaker 7: would be there on the first flight in the morning,
15:19
Speaker 7: and I got on a six am flight, and at
15:22
Speaker 7: that point they had told us that she likely wouldn't
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Speaker 7: survive the injury, and I was just hoping to make
15:30
Speaker 7: it there while she was still still with us. And yeah,
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Speaker 7: she died later that day at six twenty nine pm.
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Speaker 7: Actually she was pronounced dead. And so another another point
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Speaker 7: that I would like to make about the criminal involved
15:48
Speaker 7: in this is that in art justice system, if in
15:52
Speaker 7: fact they determined that this man had the intelligence or
15:55
Speaker 7: the intellectual capacity of our five year old, which I
15:58
Speaker 7: find hard to believe because he's certainly with a depth
16:00
Speaker 7: around guns, right, But if in fact that was true,
16:05
Speaker 7: even children in our society, if a child uses a
16:08
Speaker 7: gun in a violent crime, they're detained to a juvenile
16:11
Speaker 7: detention facility. They're not just that free. So where is
16:17
Speaker 7: the logic in all of this? Where is the.
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Speaker 2: There is none, y, there is none. And I hope
16:24
Speaker 2: that people responsible for letting him walk are just as
16:29
Speaker 2: sick as I am right now hearing it times one hundred.
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Speaker 2: They need to be brought to justice. They need to
16:38
Speaker 2: be held accountable as well. What's interesting, also, Andy Khan,
16:44
Speaker 2: is we keep hearing, Oh, Jillian was not the intended victim.
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Speaker 4: Okay.
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Speaker 2: I actually had a case where a teen boy was
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Speaker 2: coming home from band practice and a doper to dopers
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Speaker 2: shot him dead. And guess what their defense was at trial.
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Speaker 9: It's very similar, I can well imagine because when I
17:07
Speaker 9: was at parole.
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Speaker 2: Yes, it was transferred intent Andy, Oh, I meant to
17:14
Speaker 2: shoot Jackie, but I kill Sydney in staid that's not
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Speaker 2: a defense.
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Speaker 3: I meant to kill That's all that matters.
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Speaker 9: I had a guy on parole for murder and he
17:23
Speaker 9: looked at me and he goes, mister con I want
17:26
Speaker 9: you to know I didn't kill that guy. I didn't
17:28
Speaker 9: mean to kill that guy. I meant to kill the
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Speaker 9: other guy. And I was like, okay, what do you
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Speaker 9: want me to pardon? You?
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Speaker 3: Guys?
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Speaker 2: Who is this beautiful girl? Who is Jillian? Listen to
17:41
Speaker 2: our friends at crime online dot com.
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Speaker 5: Jillian Ludwig is passionate about music. Having graduated from Wall
17:47
Speaker 5: High School in June, Jillian Ludwig enjoys time with friends
17:50
Speaker 5: and boyfriend as she prepares to leave for Nashville and
17:53
Speaker 5: college life. She loves the beatic nature, music and performing
17:57
Speaker 5: in the local places. Ludwig arrives on campus at all
18:00
Speaker 5: My University for her freshman year and immediately impacts the
18:03
Speaker 5: local music scene. In her first weeks of college, she
18:06
Speaker 5: settled into a routine playing lots of music, but also
18:09
Speaker 5: getting outside and enjoying the weather. Nashville is a big
18:12
Speaker 5: change from her native New Jersey, and Jillian Ludwig loves
18:15
Speaker 5: jogging and walking around the park.
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Speaker 2: Can you imagine here she is going off to college.
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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful, beautiful fall day, November seven, and she
18:27
Speaker 2: is out, loving life, loving life, minding your own business
18:32
Speaker 2: in a park and a heavily residential area when shots
18:37
Speaker 2: ring out. But in researching and asking questions about Jillian,
18:44
Speaker 2: I find out that she was loving and giving and
18:49
Speaker 2: the apple of everyone's eye even as a little girl listening.
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Speaker 5: Growing up in Jersey, jillianound joy and gave joy through music.
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Speaker 5: She sang and served as canter for years at Saint
19:00
Speaker 5: Mark's Church, and Seegert was very involved with lake House
19:03
Speaker 5: Music Academy in Asbury Park, singing and playing guitar and
19:06
Speaker 5: bass with multiple bands, as well as teaching young music students,
19:10
Speaker 5: playing local music spots like Stone Pony and Asbury Lane's
19:14
Speaker 5: as well as some gigs in New York City. Music
19:16
Speaker 5: led her to initiate a service project called Playing It Forward.
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Speaker 5: She would play her music at a local venue, then
19:22
Speaker 5: donate all the proceeds, including tips, to organizations helping musicians
19:26
Speaker 5: in need, including children.
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Speaker 2: Children that did not have access to instruments or music
19:32
Speaker 2: education like she had access. She actually wanted to help
19:36
Speaker 2: other people. You know, it makes me think of my mom.
19:42
Speaker 2: They grew up dirt poor. My mom was a musical superstar.
19:47
Speaker 2: Someone paid an anonymous donor. To this day, we don't
19:50
Speaker 2: know who it was. Paid for her music education from
19:54
Speaker 2: first grade all the way till she studied at Wesleyan
19:57
Speaker 2: College for Women.
19:59
Speaker 4: She never knew who donated that.
20:03
Speaker 2: She went on to play in the symphony and become
20:06
Speaker 2: a professional musician. That is what this young girl was
20:11
Speaker 2: doing for other children, giving up her own tips, her
20:14
Speaker 2: own money she'd make playing to help these children that
20:18
Speaker 2: had no music education, that couldn't afford instruments. That's who
20:22
Speaker 2: Jillian Ludwig was. Now, who is her killer? Her alleged
20:30
Speaker 2: killer Take a listener our cut six.
20:33
Speaker 5: She killed Taylor, the man arrested in the shooting death
20:35
Speaker 5: of Jillian Ludwig is someone well known to law enforcement,
20:38
Speaker 5: with the record stretching back more than a decade. His
20:41
Speaker 5: latest arrest was on September twenty first, driving a Ford
20:44
Speaker 5: F one to fifty pickup truck that had been carjacked
20:46
Speaker 5: by two men wearing ski masks. Taylor was charged with
20:49
Speaker 5: felony auto theft and was released on a twenty thousand
20:51
Speaker 5: dollars bond. Taylor was doing court just days before the
20:54
Speaker 5: shooting of Jillian Ludwig, but failed to show up. A
20:57
Speaker 5: failure to appear warrant was issued and that was the
20:59
Speaker 5: added charged to Taylor's arrested in the shooting death of Ludwig.
21:02
Speaker 2: So bottom line, Marissa still joining us from WS in Nashville. Well,
21:09
Speaker 2: you always call them bf's bond forfeiter. When you don't
21:13
Speaker 2: show up to court, you get arrested. I don't care
21:17
Speaker 2: where you are. You are found and arrested. And this
21:19
Speaker 2: guy was a stone's throw off where he always is,
21:23
Speaker 2: but he wasn't picked up and brought in.
21:25
Speaker 4: Isn't that true, Marissa?
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Speaker 10: Yeah?
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Speaker 6: I mean, and we have done extensive reporting on this,
21:30
Speaker 6: just weeks before Jillian was killed. Our I team, our
21:34
Speaker 6: investigative team found out after they talked with Glenn Fung,
21:37
Speaker 6: the district attorney, that there are two hundred and twenty
21:40
Speaker 6: nine criminals like Taylor just roaming the streets here in
21:43
Speaker 6: Nashville that have been deemed incompetent to stand trial. So
21:48
Speaker 6: that means they don't understand how a jerry works technically,
21:50
Speaker 6: they don't know how lawyers work. So this is very
21:53
Speaker 6: frustrating that they don't have the funding. They don't have
21:55
Speaker 6: the funding to get them these evaluations, the training they've
21:59
Speaker 6: gone to wants except the Senate and the passing that
22:02
Speaker 6: this past sessions. They're trying to bring it back in January.
22:06
Speaker 6: But even Glenn Soong, the District Attorney, said, just a
22:09
Speaker 6: couple of weeks ago, before Julian was killed, he told
22:12
Speaker 6: our chief investigative reporter, Jeremy Finley, that's just a matter
22:15
Speaker 6: of time before someone else is hurt. And then this happened.
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Speaker 4: They let it happen.
22:20
Speaker 2: Joining me high profile lawyer Matthew Mangina, former District Attorney
22:25
Speaker 2: Lawrence County, author of The Executioners Toll.
22:29
Speaker 10: Matthew jump in, well, Nancy, you know and certainly I
22:32
Speaker 10: understand this process to determine whether somebody is competent or
22:38
Speaker 10: incompetent to stand trial. They can't aid in their own defense,
22:41
Speaker 10: and there's evaluations done and that determination is made that
22:45
Speaker 10: they're not competent to be tried. The second issue though,
22:50
Speaker 10: with this individual is should he have been on the street.
22:55
Speaker 10: Should there have been an involuntary commitment of him because
23:02
Speaker 10: of his dangerousness which he had demonstrated through his criminal record.
23:07
Speaker 10: And I don't see when I look at these media
23:09
Speaker 10: reports that there was ever a psychiatric detention hearing. You know,
23:15
Speaker 10: you can in involuntarily commit somebody for three days and
23:20
Speaker 10: then you have a hearing in front of a master
23:24
Speaker 10: or a judge. That person can then be held for
23:27
Speaker 10: an additional fifteen days. But there's criteria that you have
23:31
Speaker 10: to meet that did two doctors say that that individual
23:35
Speaker 10: is dangerous to the community? Was that ever even done?
23:40
Speaker 9: Well?
23:40
Speaker 2: I can give you a little bit of the history,
23:43
Speaker 2: Matthew Mangino, Actually take a listen to this.
23:47
Speaker 5: Shake Kille Taylor has a criminal history dating mank to
23:50
Speaker 5: twenty eleven. Police seized a forty caliber handgun from Taylor
23:53
Speaker 5: when he was a juvenile. In twenty fifteen, Taylor was
23:56
Speaker 5: charged with robbery and given probation. Taylor violated the terms
23:59
Speaker 5: of his proas charged with aggravated burglary and was sentenced
24:02
Speaker 5: to a year in jail in twenty sixteen. In twenty
24:05
Speaker 5: twenty one, Taylor was arrested and charged with aggravated assault
24:08
Speaker 5: when he fired a gun into a car with two
24:09
Speaker 5: children in the back seat. In May of twenty twenty three,
24:12
Speaker 5: he was released from custody after three court appointed psychologists
24:16
Speaker 5: deemed him incompetent to stand trial, but also found he
24:19
Speaker 5: didn't pose threat to himself for others. He admitted to
24:22
Speaker 5: detectives in twenty twenty one that he did it and
24:25
Speaker 5: more listen. Shaquille Taylor, twenty nine has an intellectual disability
24:29
Speaker 5: and language impairment, according to records. With that determination, it
24:33
Speaker 5: means he isn't able to participate in a trial where
24:36
Speaker 5: he's accused of shooting into a car in twenty twenty one.
24:39
Speaker 5: Besides the intended target, the car that he shot into
24:42
Speaker 5: had two children in the back seat, a three year
24:44
Speaker 5: old and a one year old. Taylor even admitted to
24:46
Speaker 5: detectives in twenty twenty one that he did it. Taylor
24:50
Speaker 5: spent time in jail being interviewed by doctors, but they
24:52
Speaker 5: all agreed that what is called further training or medical
24:55
Speaker 5: care would not change his competency. So despite admitting to
25:00
Speaker 5: detectives that he shot into a car with children inside,
25:02
Speaker 5: charges were dismissed and he was released from custody.
25:05
Speaker 2: We just cover the case of Colt mom Lorie Valo,
25:10
Speaker 2: who was deemed incompetent to stand trial. All that means is,
25:14
Speaker 2: at the time of trial you are not able to
25:18
Speaker 2: assist your lawyer.
25:19
Speaker 4: In your own defense. That does not mean you're insane.
25:23
Speaker 2: It means you're incompetent to stand trial at that moment.
25:29
Speaker 2: So what did they do with coltman Laurie Value. They
25:32
Speaker 2: kept her behind bars and got her ready to the
25:36
Speaker 2: point that she was competent.
25:39
Speaker 4: So here, even.
25:40
Speaker 2: Though this guy keeps shooting at people over and over
25:43
Speaker 2: in carjacking, shooting at cars, committing one crime after the next,
25:48
Speaker 2: they don't put him in a facility for the mellly impaired,
25:53
Speaker 2: and they don't put him in jail.
25:55
Speaker 3: Their answer is to put him back on the street.
25:58
Speaker 9: Andy kN know, Texas, you remain committed, and I'm fairly
26:03
Speaker 9: sure that in most states you remain committed until you're
26:07
Speaker 9: deemed competent to stand trial. You just don't get putted
26:12
Speaker 9: right back to the community. And how do you explain
26:16
Speaker 9: in competency when a defendant evidently has no problems driving
26:21
Speaker 9: all around Nashville firing off guns. He's got a girlfriend,
26:26
Speaker 9: he lives.
26:27
Speaker 10: On his own.
26:28
Speaker 9: Explain how that is deemed in competent.
26:33
Speaker 2: Whoa wait, he drives a car, lives on his own,
26:37
Speaker 2: and has a girlfriend.
26:38
Speaker 9: Yes, yet he's okay, Doctor.
26:40
Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz says, it's not a guy with the mind
26:43
Speaker 2: of a five year old. He's got a girlfriend, drives
26:46
Speaker 2: a car, has a driver's license, and lives on his.
26:49
Speaker 8: Own, exactly, and we know he knows how to use
26:52
Speaker 8: a gun and likes using guns. So I, as a
26:57
Speaker 8: forensic mental health professional, I'm over here just inside screaming
27:02
Speaker 8: because I'm sorry, I don't see how you arrived at
27:06
Speaker 8: the conclusion as a forensic mental health professional that this
27:10
Speaker 8: is not someone who poses a danger to society.
27:14
Speaker 6: I also want to point out that he.
27:18
Speaker 10: Worked at a local fast food.
27:19
Speaker 6: Restaurant with someone that we actually spoke with, and she
27:23
Speaker 6: was like, he was normal and fine. There was nothing
27:26
Speaker 6: that said that he was five years old or at
27:28
Speaker 6: least acted like a kindergartener according to some evaluation.
27:31
Speaker 2: Okay, you're hearing Marissa Sulik with WS and vate. Could
27:34
Speaker 2: you please say that again? Who in the h E
27:39
Speaker 2: double L said this guy was incompetent. He works at
27:43
Speaker 2: a fast food restaurant, He lives on his own, he
27:47
Speaker 2: has a girlfriend, he has a driver's license, he drives
27:51
Speaker 2: a car, and he knows how to shoot a gun. Yeah,
27:54
Speaker 2: help me, Marissa, what more can you tell me about
27:57
Speaker 2: him working at a fast food restaurant.
27:59
Speaker 6: Well, we talked with actually a friend of his that
28:04
Speaker 6: worked at that fast food restaurant, which is actually just
28:06
Speaker 6: right by our station, and she was shocked. I mean
28:09
Speaker 6: she found out maybe a few days after Jillian was
28:12
Speaker 6: killed that and when she saw his mugshot, she was like, wait,
28:15
Speaker 6: I actually work with this guy and happens to be
28:19
Speaker 6: someone we all know at the station. So she was like, yeah,
28:23
Speaker 6: he's totally fine. He has like his brother's a manager there. Everything,
28:28
Speaker 6: he acts completely normal. But still there's three doctors, according
28:31
Speaker 6: to court documents, that still deem him incompetence to stand trial.
28:36
Speaker 2: Now, it's my understanding that marris' ciela can you may
28:40
Speaker 2: be able to show a line on this that.
28:42
Speaker 3: His family she killed.
28:43
Speaker 2: Taylor's family says the system has failed him.
28:47
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're right. We've spoken with his grandmother and I've
28:50
Speaker 6: seen his mom and dad in the courtroom for it
28:53
Speaker 6: hearing that he did not appear in because he waived
28:55
Speaker 6: his first appearance. But yeah, they straight up told us
28:59
Speaker 6: the system has failed their son or grandson.
29:03
Speaker 2: Okay, to Jerry Wainwright, she is the great aunt of
29:08
Speaker 2: Jillian Ludwig, who is almost like a pawn in this
29:12
Speaker 2: whole thing. We're not even talking about her and her
29:16
Speaker 2: musical talents and how her family loved her and how
29:20
Speaker 2: she was the apple of their eye, and how she's
29:22
Speaker 2: minding her own business going for a jog slash walk
29:26
Speaker 2: at a park in a heavily residential area when this
29:30
Speaker 2: guy she killed Taylor opens fire and kills her, and.
29:35
Speaker 4: Now we learn he's not incompetent at all.
29:53
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Greece.
30:00
Speaker 3: Jerry.
30:00
Speaker 2: Do her parents have any idea about what we're learning
30:05
Speaker 2: now from Marissa Syulick.
30:07
Speaker 7: We know everything that's been reported. We've been staying abreast
30:10
Speaker 7: of all the bully reporting, and I have spoken to
30:13
Speaker 7: Marissa at length. The it's just it's my numbing to
30:21
Speaker 7: think that it all was preventable, that she could have lived.
30:25
Speaker 7: I mean, Jillian was She was all those things, all
30:28
Speaker 7: the things that we mentioned. She was kind and loving,
30:33
Speaker 7: and she was so smart and so funny, and.
30:36
Speaker 3: She had a laugh.
30:37
Speaker 7: They could just light up the world. I never heard
30:40
Speaker 7: anyone say a bad word about her. She was literally
30:43
Speaker 7: she was eighteen years old and she was the best
30:44
Speaker 7: person I know inside outside.
30:48
Speaker 2: Jerry, I got a question for you. Sure, have you
30:52
Speaker 2: seen the photo of whom we believe is Shkil Taylor
30:59
Speaker 2: and he is standing with who we think is his brother,
31:03
Speaker 2: posing making something like gang signs with his hands, and
31:12
Speaker 2: the brother is showing a huge role of money.
31:17
Speaker 7: I have not seen that. I have seen his mugshot.
31:22
Speaker 3: No, this is from straight off of Facebook.
31:26
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I don't think that there's any question
31:29
Speaker 7: that he is someone that should not have been on
31:30
Speaker 7: the street. I believe that there are people that need
31:33
Speaker 7: to be held irresponsible for this. I believe that it
31:37
Speaker 7: was a total failure of a system that should be
31:40
Speaker 7: designed to protect the public at large. It should be
31:44
Speaker 7: designed to protect innocent people. People should be able to
31:48
Speaker 7: live their life in broad daylight without fear of being
31:51
Speaker 7: gunned down by somebody who has no business being on
31:54
Speaker 7: the street.
31:54
Speaker 2: Andy Kahn, I would like for you to take a
31:58
Speaker 2: look at this photo that I just sent you.
32:00
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm looking at this is who.
32:03
Speaker 2: I believe to be Shaquille Taylor on the left, his
32:06
Speaker 2: brother on the right. They look like, you know, have
32:08
Speaker 2: you seen the pictures that gang members or perps post
32:12
Speaker 2: of themselves, like showing all the money they just got.
32:17
Speaker 2: You see that picture, this is the guy they said
32:20
Speaker 2: it's incompetent.
32:21
Speaker 9: I'm looking at it and I'm going, you know, look,
32:24
Speaker 9: he's flashing. He's proud of himself. He wants the whole
32:27
Speaker 9: world to know who he is and what he is.
32:30
Speaker 3: It's from his Facebook. He has Facebook. Correct, the guy
32:34
Speaker 3: they say.
32:35
Speaker 2: As the mind of a five year old has a
32:36
Speaker 2: Facebook and post pictures of himself flashing money.
32:40
Speaker 9: This is what makes this so maddening. It is for question,
32:47
Speaker 9: my question to everybody here into Nancy. Obviously, this is
32:53
Speaker 9: an ultimate tragedy. Yet this was so utterly preventable. Will
32:58
Speaker 9: Jillian's death be a catalyst for change? It has to be.
33:04
Speaker 9: This cannot continue to happen. There needs to be a law,
33:09
Speaker 9: and it needs to be named the Gillian Ludwig law.
33:14
Speaker 10: Well Man, I think that's exactly what has to happen here. Obviously,
33:19
Speaker 10: the law as it exists in Tennessee is inadequate because
33:25
Speaker 10: it provides that if a doctor or doctor say that
33:29
Speaker 10: someone is incompetent, they can't aid in their defense. The
33:32
Speaker 10: judge has no alternative but to dismiss the case. And
33:37
Speaker 10: that has to change. And you would think that Nashville.
33:41
Speaker 2: Doesn't have to dismiss the case when someone is determined incompetent.
33:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, he can be held until he is competent.
33:50
Speaker 2: I mean, did anybody see that Facebook picture that we
33:54
Speaker 2: just pulled up.
33:54
Speaker 4: All on our own.
33:55
Speaker 3: It's him and he's with a guy flashing money.
34:00
Speaker 4: Okay, he's not incompetent.
34:02
Speaker 3: He works at a fast.
34:03
Speaker 2: Food restaurant, he lives on his own, he has a girlfriend,
34:06
Speaker 2: a driver's license, he drives, He gets access to guns, and.
34:10
Speaker 3: He shoots them over and over and over. That is
34:14
Speaker 3: not the mind of a five.
34:15
Speaker 4: Year old child.
34:16
Speaker 10: But the problem is Nancy. And as you know that
34:19
Speaker 10: these decisions are based on medical evidence, and that if
34:24
Speaker 10: the doctor comes in and does a forensic assessment and
34:28
Speaker 10: says that this person has no ability or limited ability
34:33
Speaker 10: to aid in his own defense. The court has to
34:38
Speaker 10: make that determination based on medical evidence.
34:40
Speaker 2: Actually that's partially true, because I recall distinctly a murder
34:47
Speaker 2: that was set up to look like a suicide and
34:51
Speaker 2: the defendant was deemed incompetent stand trial and I I'm
34:57
Speaker 2: not an MD, I'm not a shrink.
34:59
Speaker 4: I't evan on my.
35:00
Speaker 2: Own of letters, he was writing to friends, co workers
35:05
Speaker 2: talking about how he was going to stay in the
35:08
Speaker 2: mental facility for X number. I think he said two
35:11
Speaker 2: years while he made sand paintings, you know those sand
35:16
Speaker 2: paintings you put in a bottle and did artwork, and
35:19
Speaker 2: then he would get out. I got every letter I
35:22
Speaker 2: could find of his to show he was not incompetent,
35:27
Speaker 2: and when presented with that evidence, doctors had a very
35:30
Speaker 2: different opinion, just as I think they would if they
35:33
Speaker 2: had this evidence that we're talking about right now.
35:36
Speaker 3: Matthew Mangino, that's BS.
35:38
Speaker 10: Well, why wasn't it presented?
35:41
Speaker 2: I don't know why it wasn't presented, and con help
35:46
Speaker 2: me find answers.
35:48
Speaker 10: The failure in the law is that if you deem
35:52
Speaker 10: someone in competent, it should not mean that the case
35:56
Speaker 10: is dismissed. And that's what Tennessee law apparently provides. There
36:02
Speaker 10: should be some other method, whether it is civil commitment
36:08
Speaker 10: because of a mental health issue and a risk to others.
36:12
Speaker 10: These things should work hand in hand. They shouldn't be.
36:16
Speaker 10: Well here, we're going to deal with incompetency all and
36:19
Speaker 10: if you bring it up, we'll deal with the issue
36:22
Speaker 10: of danger to society. These should work hand in hand,
36:26
Speaker 10: and they don't, and that has to change on a
36:29
Speaker 10: legislative level. In tendency.
36:31
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for preaching. These people screwed up, Andy Khan.
36:36
Speaker 2: If you and I and the people here at Crime
36:39
Speaker 2: Stories can dig up this evidence, if Marissa Sulett can
36:42
Speaker 2: dig up this evidence, they can dig up the evidence.
36:46
Speaker 2: And they let this guy walk out. And now Jillian
36:50
Speaker 2: is dead.
36:51
Speaker 9: And that's why I said, the State of Tennessee is equally,
36:55
Speaker 9: if not more than, complicit and culpable in her death,
37:00
Speaker 9: knowingly allowing a career habitual violence, a felon, right back
37:07
Speaker 9: to the community to do what he does best, commit crimes.
37:11
Speaker 9: And this time eighteen year old Gillian Ludwig paid the
37:15
Speaker 9: ultimate price. Something's got to give back.
37:17
Speaker 2: To Jerry Wainwright joining us, the great aunt of Jillian Ludwig.
37:25
Speaker 3: Jerry.
37:25
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel that you don't know what to say,
37:32
Speaker 2: not only because Jillian has passed away, not only because
37:36
Speaker 2: their parents are grieving, but because it was all so
37:40
Speaker 2: avoidable if the prosecutor, the doctors, the defense attorney, and
37:47
Speaker 2: the judge had done their job. But they didn't, and
37:50
Speaker 2: now Jillian is dead. It can only add to the
37:55
Speaker 2: grief that her parents are suffering.
37:58
Speaker 10: It does it?
37:59
Speaker 2: Does?
38:00
Speaker 9: You know?
38:00
Speaker 7: We even we haven't had Jillian's funeral yet, so they're
38:06
Speaker 7: still trying to process. We're all still trying to process
38:09
Speaker 7: and get over that hurdle. But yes, it's it is maddening,
38:15
Speaker 7: it's you know, something like so so something like this,
38:21
Speaker 7: violent crime like this usually doesn't hit home for most
38:24
Speaker 7: of us. When it happens, it's somebody else's, like some
38:27
Speaker 7: other place, some other some other story, and everybody feels
38:32
Speaker 7: bad about it and more empathetic. And but when it
38:37
Speaker 7: hits home and you never you could never expect or
38:40
Speaker 7: plan or prepare for it, the shock and the grief
38:44
Speaker 7: and the depths of their storrow are overwhelming. And and yes,
38:51
Speaker 7: the fact that it is that it was preventable does it.
38:56
Speaker 7: It makes us angry, very very angry. You know, they
39:01
Speaker 7: sent their they sent their daughter away into the world
39:05
Speaker 7: to live her best life, to be something great, and
39:08
Speaker 7: she would have she would have done amazing things with
39:11
Speaker 7: her life. And the fact that that other people incompetency
39:20
Speaker 7: contributed to her her death is yeah, it's it's heartbreaking,
39:28
Speaker 7: it's air shattering.
39:29
Speaker 2: Andy conn what sometimes we don't have the answer? You know,
39:34
Speaker 2: I've worked with so many victims, families and crime victims themselves,
39:39
Speaker 2: and they look to us prosecutors investigators as having some
39:43
Speaker 2: kind of an answer. I don't know the answer. I
39:46
Speaker 2: don't have an answer right now.
39:48
Speaker 9: The only answer is what we've already know is that
39:52
Speaker 9: the state of Tennessee failed Jillian. Now the only question
39:57
Speaker 9: is are we going to allow them to continue to
40:00
Speaker 9: fail other families. It's my understanding that they resume legislatives
40:05
Speaker 9: back in session in January. This needs to be priority
40:09
Speaker 9: legislation on the fast track, and they need to name
40:13
Speaker 9: a law after her so no other family has to
40:17
Speaker 9: endure the pain, grief, and agony of losing a loved
40:21
Speaker 9: one to this insane and that's what this is. Insane decision.
40:26
Speaker 2: Let's just wait and see whether the Tennessee legislature, packed
40:32
Speaker 2: with politicians, has the backbone to do anything about it.
40:36
Speaker 2: But for now, our prayers the Jillian's family go on. Goodbye, friends,