Latest / UK Column Radio / Hakeem Anwar on Why You Should De-Google Your Phone

Transcript

Hakeem Anwar on Why You Should De-Google Your Phone · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. Before we go any further, just
0:39
quickly give me your bio and keep it exciting.
0:43
Don't make it boring. All right, I'll try.
0:47
Now. I, I've been awake for a long
0:50
time and I started my career as a software engineer, ended up
0:54
working for big tech in New York City, and then it all went down,
0:59
right? COVID-19 84, I quit my cushy
1:01
job. I started working with activist
1:04
movements, and I helped build the largest decentralized mutual
1:08
aid network ever, just called Freedom Cells.
1:11
And during that time, people were activated.
1:13
So I saw all the good stuff that they were doing, getting real
1:16
money, eating natural, that kind of thing.
1:18
But they were just being naive when it came to their technology
1:22
that's walking around with them all the time.
1:24
So I had to educate them, and that's been my mission for the
1:28
past five years, educating people on privacy, open source
1:31
tech that they can use to opt out of surveillance.
1:34
I've got a blog on Sub Stack and I'm the founder and CEO of a
1:39
privacy solutions company. Knowing what you know now,
1:43
Hakeem, would you go back to 2019?
1:48
I, I think that it was very important for, you know, for it
1:54
to happen the way it did because it got a lot of people
1:56
activated. And, and just for the record, I
1:59
was awake to vaccines like way before that time.
2:02
But when it happened, I was like, all right, this is
2:05
happening now. Like they might kick in my door
2:08
and, and get me now. So I think that a lot of people
2:11
were feeling that and they were making moves, which ended up
2:14
being a good thing. You know, they had a plan, they
2:16
were executing, which is great. And then, you know, it took a
2:20
few years and it kind of died down and now we're back to where
2:23
we once were. So I wouldn't go back to the way
2:26
things were, 'cause now, you know, we, we all know where this
2:29
is going. The Agenda 2030.
2:31
It's not just like some nebulous out there kind of go like, you
2:36
know, the friend who always says they're going to go back to
2:38
college or get their career in AI.
2:40
No, it's like happening and they're going to push until they
2:44
reach that goal. So I think people need to
2:46
realize that. And you know what my work has
2:48
always been about as solutions. We, we kind of all know the
2:51
problems at this point. What are we going to do about it
2:53
and how can we push our lives forward to completely opt out
2:58
from what they're putting out? I have found over the last few
3:01
years that people are addicted to doom scrolling.
3:05
They are consumers of fear. You know they'll send stuff
3:09
around on Telegram and WhatsApp and just moan, never actually do
3:15
anything. Yeah, man.
3:18
And I think you know it best because you talk about how you
3:20
talk about a lot of controversial stuff and yeah,
3:23
people always have a problem with everything.
3:25
They just kind of want to share how much they disagree with you,
3:31
and that's totally cool. But we can just sit around here
3:33
and disagree all day or we can find a commonality and do
3:36
something about it. And so, yeah, I've been reading
3:38
your sub stack and I, I think you get it.
3:40
There's a nuance and everything. We don't have to agree on
3:43
everything, but let's find what we do agree on.
3:46
So tell me about solutions. What are you solving?
3:50
Yeah. So one of the major things that
3:54
that I've discovered when it, when it comes to something like
3:56
digital ID, it's it's great that we can philosophically oppose it
4:00
and be like, hey, I'm never going to comply to that.
4:02
But if you're using a phone or a laptop that you don't have any
4:07
control over, I've, I've been calling them pre hacked devices
4:12
because because they are, you know, you know, these big tech
4:14
companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google, they could push software
4:20
to your device. They can install apps without
4:22
you knowing, without your consent, and you can't even
4:26
remove them. Like they have the power to do
4:28
these things. So it's great that we oppose
4:30
digital ID, but it's also going to require our personal
4:34
infrastructure to resist in a meaningful way.
4:37
Otherwise, here's what's going to happen.
4:39
And here's what we saw during the pandemic as well is that no
4:44
one was downloading contact tracing apps that just no one
4:48
was downloading and no one wanted to do it.
4:50
Very small number of people. And then in some states, like in
4:53
Massachusetts, Google and the Department of Public Health
4:56
there, they just decided to forcibly install the apps on
5:00
people's phones and turn on Bluetooth and turn on the health
5:03
reporting. So that just happened overnight,
5:06
right? So I mean, that's kind of my
5:08
mission with solutions is to make sure people have technology
5:11
that they can rely on. And, and this goes back to when
5:16
this first happened, where was the 1st place we looked for
5:20
people with common sense, people who are thinking like this.
5:22
We looked online, that's where we found each other.
5:24
We realized there's this massive movement on the planet.
5:27
For me too, as a software engineer, that's what I
5:29
realized. Hey, this is the really cool
5:31
stuff when we bring people together under a unified cause.
5:34
So these like these tools, so our company above phone, we have
5:40
phones and laptops, but it's not like I advocate like you should
5:44
be a techie and spend all your time on a laptop or phone.
5:47
Now, these are just tools that we use to build the the world,
5:52
the world that we want in in real life.
5:54
And the technology can help us organize things and stuff like
5:57
that, but it's not, it's not the master.
5:59
We are the masters. This is a good point.
6:03
I mean I for example just on a day-to-day basis I've attempted
6:08
playing with Linux or Linux. I don't know how you pronounce
6:11
it Linux or Linux. I don't know what the correct
6:13
way to say to how do you? Say it works.
6:14
There's a big debate. Oh, OK.
6:17
So all right, well, whatever. I attempted it for about two
6:22
years and I gave up because it's just too complicated.
6:27
I spent too much of my time fiddling and trying to get
6:30
things to work. I installed Mint, Ubuntu,
6:33
Fedora, and at the end of the day I just want something that
6:37
works and I think this is what the average person wants.
6:40
Also, it's just something that's easy to use.
6:44
Yeah, you're not wrong about that.
6:46
So I've been using blanks for close to a decade and and it
6:52
does require a little bit of tinkering, or at least it used
6:54
to. And so I mean when I first
6:57
started talking about this, this was the feedback I got from
7:00
people. Hey, I want to install this on
7:01
my own, but I have so many questions and I personally
7:04
couldn't keep up with it. So I mean, we started a company
7:07
to try and make these things easier.
7:09
We wrote our own Linux operating system based off of something
7:14
called Arch Linux. And the goal I gave my team was,
7:17
hey, let's make something where you don't need to mess with
7:20
anything. You don't need to open the
7:22
terminal, you don't need to tinker.
7:24
And we, we think we've, we've accomplished that.
7:27
And so you do need to make these things easier.
7:30
But also there's Linux just lags a little bit because it's a
7:36
bunch of volunteers trying to support thousands of different
7:40
types of devices. They don't have, you know, the
7:42
manpower these big tech companies do.
7:44
But what we found is eventually things do get to a point where
7:48
they're usable and nice and easy.
7:50
So I mean, I encourage people to to still try.
7:53
What were the main hand ups you were finding?
7:55
It was just things weren't working or.
7:59
Well, it was a number of years ago, so maybe things are better
8:02
now. But yeah, I mean, it was just
8:05
compatibility and and drivers and all that, you know, all that
8:09
usual kind of stuff. And then I really didn't want to
8:12
support Microsoft, so then I just resorted to to Apple.
8:16
Yeah, Apple does a really good job letting you believe that
8:20
they're private. And you know, they're like, the
8:25
FBI asked for this and we're like, no way, FBI.
8:29
No, look at that, guys. It's unfortunately that's the
8:34
privacy marketing era we live in.
8:37
And so, but what they won't tell you about is how their phones
8:42
are sending out the addresses to the different devices in your
8:45
house when they're connected on Wi-Fi.
8:48
They won't tell you about how they're collecting a database of
8:52
over 2 billion Wi-Fi access points in the world.
8:55
So they, you know, this is how our today's location systems
8:58
work. You know, they use Wi-Fi access
9:00
points. So it was really crazy.
9:03
There's a study out of Maryland and they were tracking through
9:06
Apple system, which they left open for this, how Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi
9:11
routers were moving across the world.
9:13
So they saw Gaza being decimated in in real time with the Wi-Fi
9:17
routers like disappearing off the map.
9:19
They saw people fleeing from Ukraine for forced conscription
9:23
with Wi-Fi routers. So it's like, it's really crazy.
9:26
You don't think about the data that has to, you know, be there
9:30
in the back end for these systems to work.
9:33
And yeah, I mean, Apple, I would not consider anything you do on
9:39
Apple device to be private, partially because it's
9:42
completely opaque, right? It's not transparent.
9:45
Nothing is open source. Everything is locked down.
9:49
You couldn't install an open source app that wasn't approved
9:53
by Apple if you even wanted to. So they don't care about
9:56
people's freedom and they don't care about privacy either.
9:59
A friend of mine has got one of those Google phones, a Pixel or
10:02
whatever it's called, and then he he installed some other
10:06
operating system on it. He was probably installing
10:09
something like Graphene OS or divest OS, potentially graphene,
10:17
right? And and that's what I recommend.
10:20
That's what our company sells above phone.
10:23
We sell phone to the Graphene OS on them.
10:26
Of course, if people want it, they could stall on their own,
10:29
but you know, you'll find that there's takes time to get into
10:32
it and to learn. But the reason we we recommend
10:35
it is because it is most the most secure and private phone
10:40
you can buy out there. Sure, give me one second.
10:42
My phone is. What you've been talking about a
10:45
lot now is digital ID. This is integral actually.
10:49
I mean, it's completely connected to the issue of
10:51
privacy. Yeah, it, it is connected to
10:55
privacy and then it goes a little bit past privacy to
10:59
actually being about control, right, Where people have
11:03
accepted that our phones are listening to us.
11:06
But So what, you know, the worst they can do is show us ads.
11:08
Well, digital ID is the other half of that.
11:10
It's the control grid and as you saw in my report, you know, I
11:16
tried to cover being very extensive with the research and
11:20
looking at six continents everywhere in the world.
11:23
This is happening everywhere and over 90% of countries.
11:27
So it's, you know, the parallels what COVID-19 84 was like.
11:32
I accept there's nowhere to run to like in the past.
11:35
A lot of people from Europe moved to Mexico in the past to
11:39
escape the vaccine mandates here.
11:41
I don't know if we have that same option.
11:42
Every country or government is planning to do something like
11:45
this, and with it comes putting your basic social services
11:51
behind a digital ID wall. You really don't have a right to
11:56
exist unless you let the government create a biometric ID
12:00
on your behalf, which happens when you take your legal
12:03
identity and you combine it with your biometrics and you give it
12:06
in a formal setting. So that's when it happens.
12:08
That's when you're on their system.
12:10
I've got your report in front of me and I recommend.
12:13
I don't know if it's public, but if it is public I recommend
12:15
people read it. So you say here.
12:17
Our research shows digital ID wallets or equivalents will be
12:20
available to 90% of countries within two years, with full
12:25
rollout expected in five. Within a decade, digital IDs
12:30
will be largely sorry. Old school IDs will be largely
12:33
obsolete, forcing reliance on regional controllable digital
12:37
credentials for everything from travel to trade.
12:40
That is pretty scary. Yeah, absolutely.
12:44
And, and the report is public, it's free, it's available for
12:47
everyone, can go to abovephone.com/digital.
12:51
And, and yeah, you know, I want people to put, I want to be
12:54
wrong about this. I want people to find different
12:57
places in the world I might have missed and say, hey, this
13:00
country is not doing digital ID. But from what I've found,
13:04
there's one country next to the Amazon rainforest, Suriname,
13:08
which is supposed to be a lawless country anyways, right?
13:11
It's just kind of out in the middle of nowhere.
13:13
There's 15 countries in Africa not doing digital ID.
13:16
So hey there. That's something.
13:18
But it's my country is your country is as well.
13:22
Yes. The president, you know, has
13:24
said that that's going to be a main priority for them this
13:27
year. Yeah, exactly.
13:31
Right. So this is this is happening
13:33
everywhere. And and so there there's a
13:35
progression to get there though that I'll.
13:38
I think that's really important is that it relies on our
13:41
consent. You have to be willing to go
13:44
into the office or the setting or wherever and provide your
13:48
legal identity with your biometric identity.
13:50
Before that, before enough people are on it, they can't
13:54
actually start shutting things down because it would hurt the
13:57
economy and you know, they need enough people to adopt.
14:00
So the next two years are really important because we'll start to
14:03
see these pushes for adoptions. The countries that are working
14:07
on digital IDs apps will have those out and available for
14:10
people. So you'll get to see that in the
14:12
next two years. And we really need to resist.
14:15
We need to have our own economic systems before that point.
14:19
So I like to give people a timeline so they just can
14:21
prepare and plan ahead. Yeah.
14:24
I mean, something very interesting that you've pointed
14:27
out in your report is the voluntary facade that you call
14:30
it, but you say that that is just a trick, it's a bait and
14:33
switch. It's definitely a beta switch
14:37
and you know the example in the report is Indias Adhar system
14:41
which India is the largest. It has the largest number of
14:45
people on digital ID like was it like 1.6 billion people in India
14:51
and 96% of them are using this system.
14:54
So the India Supreme Court ruled that you could not be punished
15:00
for not being on this digital ID system.
15:02
But that didn't stop the banks from demanding your Adhar ID.
15:07
That didn't stop the seller companies from threatening to
15:10
shut off the phone service if they didn't give them their
15:13
Adhar ID. That didn't stop landlords for
15:16
using the Adhar ID as a way to screen applicants, right.
15:20
So it's really interesting, like India maybe, maybe it's because
15:23
of their caste system or something, but they went the
15:25
full mile to the point where even regular people were
15:29
imposing it on each other as something that had to happen.
15:33
And I think that the world as we know it is over when we reached
15:36
that point. Because as digital ID grows in
15:40
all to all these different places, now that data is being
15:44
analyzed, it makes it possible for us to have programmable
15:48
money, which India also has, you know, the largest use of
15:53
programmable payments, which is the second aspect of digital
15:56
public infrastructure. And all of these things that
15:59
that you kind of see in the UN messaging, in the World Economic
16:02
Forum, they become possible. If you're using too much heat at
16:06
your house, they can just turn it off, right?
16:07
But they need that legal identity tied to everything
16:10
you're doing. So that's where we're going with
16:11
this. My word for this is mandating it
16:15
by proxy. And it's kind of, you know,
16:17
they're just two faces of the same, same thing because it's
16:22
not like these, these government institutions, they have a lot of
16:25
influence over these private institutions as well,
16:29
regulations. And so these private
16:34
institutions, especially the bigger ones, will have to follow
16:37
eventually. It's going to start with the
16:39
banks first because wouldn't you know it, the banks are the
16:42
people who want us to all be on digital ID.
16:44
So I point out different places around the world.
16:46
It's the World Bank funding Africa to make sure people, you
16:50
know, the undocumented populace in Africa are getting their IDs.
16:54
So of course, the banks in our real world will be the first to
16:57
impose it and then it may follow with things like insurance
17:02
companies and travel. Travel is a big freedom that
17:07
Jerm, you and I both know how important it is to be able to
17:11
travel just so we can experience different cultures.
17:14
And now that's also something that's going to be threatened.
17:17
That's also, I think one of the first projects South Africa is
17:19
working on, unfortunately. So yeah, you'll, you'll see.
17:23
You'll see it kind of drip in in this order.
17:25
I don't think I've asked, and I don't know of anybody who's
17:27
asked this, but who created Digital identity?
17:31
And then you have a photograph of Kim Cameron.
17:35
Yeah, Kim Cameron. He's he's, he's the OG of
17:38
digital identity. His was the identity architect
17:42
at Microsoft. He had a company that Microsoft
17:45
bought. But basically what he did was he
17:48
created an interoperable identification system to
17:51
corporate enterprise IT environment.
17:54
So it's like, all right, you're logging on to your company, you
17:57
have access to these printers and these networks and these
18:00
hard drives over here. So he built that, and along the
18:05
way, he wrote this paper called The Laws of Identity in 2004.
18:11
This would be the messaging and philosophy for what we now know
18:16
as digital ID. So think about that.
18:18
It's almost been 20 years, right?
18:20
This is 20 years in the making. And what he said is, hey, the
18:25
people deserve a better way to identify themselves.
18:28
He was worried about the things people having way too many
18:32
passwords and getting attacked by cyber criminals.
18:35
So he said hey, one ID and let's have it be interoperable with
18:40
everything. And also it should be people's
18:42
right to decide how much information they want to share
18:46
with either party. Well, it sounds very noble.
18:50
And he was also on the board of ID 2020.
18:54
So I, I, I don't know how noble it actually was, but he had some
18:58
things that sounded good in his original paper.
19:00
But yeah, Fast forward 20 years and these are the, it's the same
19:05
type of messaging. If you read his original paper
19:07
and what you see government saying today, they say, hey,
19:10
it's going to be, you're right. You get to pick how much
19:13
information do you want to share?
19:14
And it's never done without your consent.
19:16
It's the same thing. But the problem is, is when you
19:19
have incompetent people working on these systems, which I say
19:23
they're largely incompetent, I can show you examples, is that
19:27
on the back end there? This information can be shared,
19:32
It can be aggregated. There can even be a secret layer
19:35
behind digital ID itself. So I don't think he knew where
19:39
it was going. But unfortunately, he died after
19:42
the Last Post on his blog where he was criticizing response, the
19:47
COVID response, like the lockdowns and stuff.
19:49
That was the last blog post he made on identityblog.org and
19:52
then he passed away, so we don't know ID.
19:56
Yeah, you mentioned ID 2020, like just about nobody knows
19:59
what that is. I think it's been around what,
20:01
since 2016 or 2017 thereabouts? And it's a Microsoft or a Bill
20:06
Gates initiative, isn't it? Yeah, it's one of the, you know,
20:10
it was the one of the original founding groups to come
20:12
together, big tech government NGOs and start to work on these
20:18
identity standards that we now know today.
20:20
So there are two major tech specs in digital ID.
20:24
There's the WWW verified credentials specification, and
20:30
there is also the ISO specification or standard.
20:35
And for most people, this won't be too important, but just think
20:39
about it as the rules. These digital ID systems need to
20:42
be interoperable with each other.
20:43
So ID 2020 was instrumental in creating those first systems.
20:47
And now that they've tested it internationally, like you've got
20:51
to think about the impact is this is not just you sign up in
20:53
your own country. Now you have to worry about
20:56
South Africa, now you have to worry about China.
20:58
No, these systems are built to be interoperable.
21:00
That's the whole point. So they'll follow you wherever
21:03
you are. That's that's where we're going
21:05
with this. So what is Digital ID?
21:13
Yeah. So I try to, you know, I try to
21:15
make a definition for it because it's hard to hard to create it.
21:18
But I've looked at Russia and China to see how they do their
21:21
systems and I've looked at the EU.
21:23
And so there's two characteristics I see over and
21:25
over is the verified credential part of it, which is just
21:29
saying, hey, this digital identity document that you've
21:35
shared with me, can I prove that this was signed by the
21:40
government of Russia or signed by Google or Apple or whoever
21:44
signed it, Can I trust the source of it?
21:46
So that's the verified part. And that it's also used in a
21:51
digital setting. So that might be through the web
21:54
browser, but it could also be an app on the phone, could also be
21:57
in person using near field communication or Bluetooth,
22:01
right? There's different ways to send
22:03
it. So that's the digital part.
22:04
The other part that's important is the interoperability.
22:08
And for some countries like Australia, they don't want their
22:12
for at least for right now, their digital ICD system won't
22:14
work outside of the country. But inside the country it is
22:18
already being used for most government services talking
22:22
about your driver's licenses or your, you know, how you pay at
22:27
the tax office. And this is going to quickly
22:29
expand to social media. It's going to be available to
22:33
other businesses to validate the identity of other people using a
22:38
verification service. So it becomes interoperable and
22:41
that's the other piece. It could be interoperable
22:43
domestically or internationally. So those are the two factors in
22:46
digital ID. The question that I've been
22:49
asked a couple times over the last couple years is, oh, but
22:52
it's just your ID in digital form.
22:55
Yeah, it is more than that. And so you can attach any sort
23:00
of information you want onto a digital ID.
23:03
You could have diplomas attached to your digital ID.
23:06
And I predict within the next five years, you're going to get
23:10
to start seeing digital diplomas as well.
23:14
And if anyone's had to ever prove where they studied, you
23:17
know, it's a bit of a process now.
23:18
You're just going to have this document given to you by the
23:20
university. That's just one example.
23:22
You can tie any sort of information to your digital
23:24
identity, where you live, What Car you have.
23:28
Voting, voting. Yeah, exactly whether you're
23:31
eligible to vote, whether you have kids or they're adopted,
23:35
you know, you can kind of integrate them with which with
23:38
one another. And so eventually it will become
23:41
a thing that can have a historical log of everything you
23:44
did in your life. Although I will say that you so
23:48
with with those types of things that might be attached to
23:51
because it's, it's kind of like a credential.
23:53
So it'll be minimal. You probably will have different
23:56
credentials for things. And then also every time you use
24:00
it, let's say at the grocery store, there will be kind of an
24:03
interaction mechanism with your digital ID and what you
24:06
purchased that day. And there will probably be like
24:09
a subsystem, maybe a payment system or a credit source system
24:12
like you were saying. That's like, hey, here's your
24:15
legal identity. Let's let's let's reference it
24:18
with this historical record. It may not live exactly on the
24:21
digital ID, but that's what this system enables is a is, yeah.
24:27
I mean, being able to track you across everything that you do
24:30
because it's all tied with your legal identity.
24:33
OK, but let me play devil's advocate.
24:36
Why is it a bad thing? Yeah.
24:39
And, and, you know, that's a good question to ask because at
24:42
the at the surface, you know, if you listen to what the
24:45
politicians are saying, less paperwork, less lines at these
24:49
offices, it makes it easier to pay taxes, right?
24:51
These are things everyone loves. Sarcastic of course, but when
24:56
you look at it didn't start to scare me until I looked at
25:00
Russia and also China. And I do.
25:06
I just preface this with saying I don't think Russia, China bad
25:09
and America good. I don't believe that.
25:12
I think it's it's happening everywhere and it depends.
25:15
What flavor of tyranny do you want?
25:17
You'll get it. Maybe in some countries you'll
25:20
be able to eat and have a better life than others.
25:22
It's totally possible. But when I looked at Russia and
25:26
China, I was kind of surprised more with Russia.
25:30
Their digital ID system is already integrated into the CCTV
25:34
cameras. So right now they've got this
25:36
war in Ukraine. They have a lottery for the
25:40
draft to go to the war. Worst lottery ever.
25:44
So you can get randomly selected.
25:45
This happens through the digital ID.
25:47
You get a notification from the government.
25:49
You have 20 days to report in to your field office.
25:53
What happens after 20 days? They pull you off the street.
25:56
How do they know you're on the street?
25:58
Because of the CCTV cameras in the Moscow metro, soon to be on
26:02
the buses. They can recognize your face and
26:05
tie it with your legal identity and send someone to come get
26:07
you. So a lot of people over the past
26:09
few years have been complaining about how Ukraine does this.
26:12
They do it the old fashioned way where they just kidnap brand new
26:15
people off the street. Russia's doing it the dystopian
26:18
way with China. Chinas digital ID system is
26:23
actually like technically it's new according to this definition
26:28
I have. But they have these huge big
26:31
tech companies which are their own form of digital ID.
26:35
And So what we saw during the during the lockdowns is that
26:40
these health passes that they had, which used some of the same
26:44
technologies, digital ID could be turned off to restrict
26:47
travel. We saw that with some of the
26:49
bank protests. There's also this aspect of the
26:53
social credit system in China, which I don't, I'm not an expert
26:57
on it, but what I researched was the public dishonorable Citizens
27:01
website, which is crazy. It's public.
27:04
You can go see who's on it, at least the records that are being
27:07
added to it. And if you end up on this list,
27:11
no one will want to work with you.
27:13
You can't buy plane tickets. You actually have to end up
27:16
going in person. So it it, it becomes a way, if
27:19
this is the data exchange piece of digital public infrastructure
27:23
where all the information is shared.
27:25
If you fuck up in one aspect of life, you can get sued, you can
27:30
have a divorce, you can forget to pay taxes, something happens.
27:34
It impacts all the other areas of your life.
27:36
Also, if someone doesn't like you, someone who's powerful
27:41
enough to influence the system, which is not that hard to do, it
27:45
could, you know, it could cut you off from the rest of the
27:47
world. So as you might know, I was in
27:50
China recently and I certainly have many reasons to, to, to
27:56
criticize it and, and many reasons not to criticize it.
27:59
I, I, I try and see the nuance, you know, the complexity.
28:03
And I'm certainly not pro China and I'm certainly not anti
28:05
China. I mean, I, why would I be?
28:07
I'm South African but I did notice no cash anyway like I I
28:15
couldn't purchase anything without Alipay or WeChat and
28:21
everything by the looks of it is moving into WeChat and Alipay
28:26
now. That is a form of digital ID,
28:28
isn't it? Yeah.
28:30
And I'm very excited to hear to read your report on this.
28:33
But yeah, from what I've seen, there is no point in having cash
28:38
if you have cash in China. They'll be like, what are you
28:40
doing? Just use one of these two apps
28:43
and you could say that in their own way.
28:45
Alipay and WeChat or form a digital ID.
28:48
Why is that? Because you sign in with
28:50
biometrics. It's used for different things
28:53
on the app, like authorizations. It's interoperable because
28:56
there's this little app economy where third party developers can
29:00
integrate it with taxis, you know, anything they want.
29:03
So yeah, you could say it's a digital ID system and if it's
29:06
own and what people should realize as well, like these two
29:09
apps together, it's staggering number of people use.
29:13
It's like, it's like everyone, right?
29:15
So imagine 1.8 billion people using these two same systems.
29:19
Now what happened recently was the Chinese government decided
29:23
to say, all right, here's let's let's make it official.
29:26
They came up with the cyberspace ID, and so now the cyberspace ID
29:31
is another metric. You enroll with your biometrics
29:34
and you can use it to sign in to Alipay or WeChat or 80 other
29:39
apps, right? So it's this final layer.
29:41
They didn't really need it in the first place.
29:43
They could have just gone through one of those two
29:44
companies, but they decided, hey, this final layer, which if
29:48
that's cut off, it'll impact everything.
29:51
And of course, they've had for years since 2015, Like you have
29:56
to use your legal identity when signing up to things online.
29:59
So it hasn't been that far away from them.
30:00
On my phone, for example, to access my banking app, it uses
30:05
biometrics. I don't see that as a bad thing
30:07
because if somebody steals my phone then they can't access my
30:09
my bank account. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, you
30:12
could, you could argue that it's more secure because it's your
30:15
biometrics. But let's move.
30:18
You got to remember, like with cybersecurity, it's a cat and
30:20
mouse game. Both sides are moving forward at
30:22
the same time. What happens if your biometrics
30:24
get stolen? And how hard is it to really do
30:27
that in the 1st place? How what happens if you lose
30:30
your digital ID? At that point, people can
30:32
impersonate you and there are safeguards written into the
30:36
specifications. But governments don't have to
30:39
adhere to the specification, right?
30:40
It's the guideline. It's not like a blueprint or
30:43
anything. So they can build whatever they
30:45
want. And what we've seen is that
30:49
these digital ID systems do get hacked.
30:51
It happened in Adhar, India's Adhar.
30:54
It happened with Estonia's system.
30:58
And so if your biometrics get stolen, there's not really a way
31:03
you can you can escape that, right?
31:05
Someone has your biometrics. And in Singapore, it was one
31:10
such case where their Sing Pass app was hacked and they had
31:14
about 3000 different identities that were shared on the dark
31:17
web. And so attackers could log in
31:20
kind of the same way. They were able to use the
31:22
biometrics and use it for things like opening bank accounts or
31:25
starting companies or frauds or something, stuff like that.
31:29
And and that's the real, that's the real danger here on a
31:32
personal level is biometrics are something that you can't get
31:35
back very easily. So could you then make a counter
31:38
argument and suggest that well, it's a bit better if the
31:41
biometrics are decentralized? Yeah, and, and you, you could,
31:49
and there's a lot that can be said here.
31:52
Kim Cameron actually talked about this.
31:54
He was hinting towards this in his paper of something called a
31:56
Sovereign Self Identity and when he presented it to the UN
32:01
committee they hated the name. They hated the name Sovereign,
32:04
but the idea was you are issuing.
32:07
Your own? I wonder why?
32:11
Sorry. Go on.
32:12
Yeah, right. This this self sovereign
32:14
identity where you issue it yourself and then you you get
32:18
to, you know, you get to basically dictate it and show it
32:20
to others and be in control of that information.
32:23
That's not what we have with these digital ID systems, but
32:26
you could make the case that there's nothing farther more
32:29
than biometrics and that that it could be more secure.
32:34
My problem is not with that aspect.
32:37
It's the aspect with that mostly governments are responsible for
32:42
its implementation. And that I don't trust the
32:46
powers behind them to not abuse their powers, as we've seen,
32:49
we've seen over and over and over and over.
32:52
And so I don't trust the systems that are out there to make our
32:57
lives much, much harder. And it's also a system like once
33:02
you start to use everything with biometrics, you can't go back.
33:05
You know, if the rates change or the sales tax change is on your
33:09
purchases, there's no way to be like, Nope, I'm not doing this.
33:13
I'm opting out. Sorry, you're already, you're
33:15
already in the system for, for people who don't want to be in
33:20
the system, you'll never be in the system, which is a good
33:23
thing. But for people who have like
33:25
invested their wealth, time, attention, money, resources,
33:29
it's going to be a big shock. It's going to be a really big
33:32
shock to them. So look, I think potentially
33:36
there's a way for biometrics to be used safely, but what's
33:39
happening right now is not the way and it's really dangerous.
33:43
I mean, Catherine Orson Fitz often argues that technology is
33:47
a tool and we should discern. Yeah, and that's, I agree with
33:52
that. Like, you know, like with
33:53
everything, there's there's nuance.
33:55
And so, yeah, I think when when people began to see the QR codes
34:01
instead of the menus at the restaurant, they freaked out.
34:03
They're like, get this evil QR code away from me.
34:06
It's like, no, it's, it's, it's a QR code.
34:08
It's all it. Just opens a website.
34:11
It just opens a website. Yeah.
34:12
And I think you had a post about that, too.
34:15
But people were like, actually scared, you know, So it was
34:19
interesting. But these these are just tools
34:23
and you just have to be aware of of how they're built and who has
34:27
access to them and whether they have the capability to do this
34:30
data exchange piece. I keep bringing it up because
34:34
it's a really important part of digital public infrastructure,
34:37
right? This is a idea from the United
34:40
Nations Development Program, and it wants to combine three
34:44
pieces, of which digital ID is the first.
34:47
So you need your legal biometric identity, then you could have
34:52
your unified payment system, which means payments tied to
34:55
your digital identity. The last piece is data exchange.
34:59
And and that's the thing here, I don't trust the government with
35:02
all of its access to data, to not make my life harder if I
35:07
start to put everything on their data exchange.
35:11
But do you trust private companies more?
35:14
No, because they've been Co opted by the government too.
35:18
And, and I mean, you know, you see that there's actually, you
35:21
know, you could argue that they're, they're even worse than
35:25
the government in many ways. Maybe look at Facebook.
35:28
Look at Facebook for example, and how they try to manipulate
35:31
the elections in I think 2016. Remember that whole thing?
35:35
Yes, yes, yeah. And, and how they think they're
35:38
above the law. They're yeah, it's, it's crazy
35:42
amount of the power these companies have because there's
35:45
billions of people using their products.
35:47
And so it's like, I call this like the network blast where you
35:51
have billions of people using your products and you can change
35:54
how they use it all at one time, right.
35:56
Rolling out a software update. So Google and Apple work
36:00
together on contact tracing for the first time.
36:04
These two fierce competitors put their differences aside for the
36:08
betterment of humanity, right? No.
36:11
So, so they rolled this out to to, you know, billions of
36:16
people. Similarly with digital payments,
36:18
we didn't used to have digital payments got rolled out around
36:21
the same time from these two companies.
36:23
So we really have to be careful. They have their own agenda and
36:28
really they, they, they serve the interests of the government.
36:31
They they kind of need each other as public private
36:33
partnership. I love that you've dropped in
36:35
the UNA few times because right now what is driving me up the
36:39
wall is the G20 is about to happen here in South Africa as
36:44
you might know, and part of the agenda is discussing a
36:49
multipolar carbon economy which directly links to digital ID and
36:55
social credit scoring. But why I'm getting so annoyed
37:00
by the whole thing is that my fellow S Africans are so
37:03
intensely focused on race and race issues that they're
37:08
completely forgetting because, because Trump, Trump announced
37:11
that he's going to boycott the, the, the summit.
37:14
And then I think Argentina's president did the same, which is
37:18
great. I think it should be boycotted,
37:20
but they're focusing on racial conflict rather than the G20
37:25
itself and and what it's attempting to do.
37:31
Yeah, and and so it's a clown world, right?
37:35
And, and the problem is this Hegelian dialect, like I think
37:40
people's people let their emotions be used against them
37:44
way too easily, way too easily. And not saying that these aren't
37:49
impactful issues, but, you know, these problems are allowed to
37:53
happen. You know, and I've, I've
37:55
travelled the world a little bit this past year.
37:57
Immigration is a thing that's happening everywhere.
38:00
I was talking with some people from Iceland the other week
38:03
there, they said that a fifth of their population is now
38:06
immigrants from other countries, happening in the UK, happening
38:09
in the Europe. It's being weaponized.
38:11
And so that people like Trump and Malay can come along and
38:15
say, this is such a problem, we're now going to need
38:18
biometrics at the border. So the problem reaction solution
38:22
that that we all know about is happening.
38:25
And it's important to keep sight of the the real issues on all
38:30
this, right? Which I think digital ID is
38:32
definitely one of them. I think the immigration issue
38:35
is, is really important as well, But it's not something that you
38:40
can like pitch the government do something about this.
38:42
And then they're like, OK, we're going to deport a a few people.
38:45
No, it's like if these people are here and if you can't get
38:50
rid with millions of people, what's the next best thing to
38:52
educate, to educate and integrate them on the ways of
38:55
life there so there can be harmony.
38:57
That's what I personally believe.
38:59
Being an immigrant to the United States, it's like I've kind of
39:02
seen and in the United States, it's like kind of it's kind of
39:06
backwards because you go into every kitchen, like you go into
39:10
a restaurant in their kitchen. Guess who's working there?
39:12
Undocumented illegals. So you can't have it both ways
39:17
you want. And then you got is it, is it
39:19
Keir Starmer who who said that if the UK implements digital ID,
39:24
it will help with the immigration issue?
39:28
Yeah, I don't know what he's smoking.
39:32
He's going to too many of those Boris Johnson parties.
39:35
He. Yeah.
39:36
So it's like, how's the thing on your phone going to stop boats
39:42
of people from coming into your country?
39:43
It makes no, no sense at all. And yeah.
39:46
And so like Keir Starmer is a great example of someone who
39:51
just went too far. He went way too hard.
39:54
And and people are rightfully protesting.
39:57
Maybe it was actually a measured move because we know that they
40:00
kind of like to measure the pushback against these things.
40:02
So they're like, all right, hey, Keir, say the most ridiculous
40:05
thing, which is actually truthful because I do think
40:08
that's on timeline with 2030. Going back to the UN sustainable
40:12
development goal target 69, everyone will have a legal
40:17
identity by 20-30. They want to reach that goal.
40:20
So Keir Stormer saying that is if it's right on the timeline
40:24
and it should freak everyone out.
40:26
But I, I think I've spoken a bit enough about this problem to say
40:30
that right now the most important thing that you could
40:33
be doing is going out and Pete person and saying, hey, this
40:37
digital ID system is coming. They might have me scan, scan an
40:44
ID or want to get an ID to interact with you even.
40:48
And if it's a farmer, if it's someone in your local community,
40:51
you just have to make a promise to each other with a handshake,
40:54
not a key exchange, that whatever happens, we're not
40:58
going to let this digital ID system come up between US.
41:01
And if you do that for 200 of your local community members,
41:05
you get all your needs met. You actually have data that's
41:08
more valuable than any digital ID system.
41:11
I love this example that you use in your report of how digital ID
41:15
can work just on a real in a real world example.
41:18
So you I'm going to read it. Fred wants to go to his local
41:21
pub using a digital ID. Fred signs up for digital ID.
41:25
His national ID system creates A credential that contains his
41:29
name, birth date, gender, and a photo.
41:33
The issuing system then signs the credential with the private
41:37
key. The credential is sent directly
41:39
to Fred's digital identity wallet on his mobile device,
41:43
where it is saved. Fred goes to the pub he's asked
41:46
for his digital ID. He scans his phone which
41:49
receives a request from the bar requesting the relevant
41:53
credential which is his age, which is then shared.
41:56
The Bars Digital ID Terminal verifies their credentials
42:00
signature with the public key of the National ID system.
42:03
Yeah, it'll happen instantly. Yeah, it's these, these systems
42:07
are meant to be fast. You know, they're already,
42:08
they've been testing this out at the airports and in many places.
42:12
You know, Estonia, Denmark, they've already got this system
42:15
implemented in in those shops. So they've been working on it.
42:19
It will be fast. It'll will be convenient.
42:22
You're going to feel like the idiot again at the airport line
42:25
who doesn't go through the facial recognition line.
42:28
You know, I'm I'm always on the line that has to wait.
42:31
And that OPS out of it through photo.
42:33
But they will use inconveniences to get to you.
42:36
But yeah, so, so, so the the interesting thing about that
42:40
example, and here's the things that people don't think about.
42:43
Once you share your digital ID with the bar, what's them to
42:47
what's to stop them from just using your identity?
42:50
There's no safeguards right now. This is all like new, new
42:54
frontier technology and you have to trust that the people who
42:59
build these systems will care about your security and privacy
43:03
and they don't. And as someone who runs a
43:06
security and privacy company, I'd know how hard it is.
43:10
It's like it takes a lot of effort.
43:11
It's most of your effort trying to make things as private as
43:14
possible. So I, I really don't think
43:16
they'll do that. They'll go for ease of use to
43:18
make it more adoptable by people, which makes sense.
43:22
But on the back end, you can have your identity stolen very,
43:25
very easily. And and yeah, so, so I think
43:31
that, you know, in the next few years, we'll begin to see more
43:33
of this happening in the banks. You'll get to see this happening
43:36
on more and more websites here in the US.
43:39
There have been several stays states like Utah and Texas,
43:43
which have passed age verification laws.
43:45
Those that's happening. We know that Australia already
43:49
has these laws. Digital IDs are just a natural
43:52
next step to access some parts of the Internet.
43:56
But all this talk of credentials and private key and public key
44:01
sounds eerily close to Bitcoin. What do you make of
44:04
cryptocurrency? Yeah, it's a cosmic joke, isn't
44:10
it? That cryptography can both be
44:12
potentially our saviour and our our worst demon Bitcoin, The the
44:21
origins of Bitcoin. I'm, I'm OK with not knowing
44:25
because there are things like, you know, the, yeah, the, the
44:32
like the Shah 256 and which is the, which is the crypto suite
44:39
for Bitcoin and that being created by, I forget what it is,
44:44
like NIST, National Institute for Standards and Technology,
44:48
which is, you know, closely related to the CIA or, sorry,
44:54
the NSA. So you could say, all right,
44:56
hey, there's some weird government tags there.
45:00
You could say that that is suspicious.
45:02
And we don't know who provided Bitcoin.
45:04
At the same time, I think that when these programs get rolled
45:08
out to people, they don't know what is possibly going to
45:12
happen. And what they discovered was
45:14
wow, people want people want a freeway to exchange and contract
45:20
outside of the banks. And so it did start a movement.
45:23
Now, unfortunately you from I have come across the work of
45:26
Whitney Webb and Mark Goodwin. They've done a really good job
45:30
talking about how Bitcoin has been Co opted.
45:33
It's been, it's been neutered really to prevent it from being
45:36
the people's money. And now people are just like
45:39
hold and they're just holding their Bitcoin in the hopes that
45:42
one day it'll be worth something.
45:44
That's not how that they're going to, that's not how they're
45:45
going to get rich. And I'll just warn people with
45:47
this. What's the point of Bitcoin if
45:50
you there's, if there's no one you can name in your real life
45:53
that would accept Bitcoin? It's useless.
45:56
It's useless in that sense. The only way it'll be useful is
45:59
if you scanned your face, your biometrics, go through an
46:03
exchange and pay taxes on it. That's the only way it'll be
46:06
useful. It is pretty useless, I can't do
46:09
anything with it. Yeah, there, there are some
46:12
people I see that point and I think that I think that it
46:16
requires a lot of effort to, to make it useful.
46:18
It literally requires, and I've done this in different places
46:21
and there's people doing this in different countries where
46:23
there's like initiatives to try and get their local vendors to
46:27
use Bitcoin. It's a bit of setup, right?
46:29
3030 minutes to an hour talking with people, getting them to
46:32
accept it. I think it has the potential as
46:35
an alternative monetary system. But is it there right now?
46:38
No, I think it's unfocused. At the same time, there's
46:41
there's, there's private crypto currencies that I believe in a
46:46
bit more like Monero. And there are peer-to-peer
46:50
markets which you can do all sorts of interesting stuff, not
46:54
just, I'm not talking about the darknet markets, but you can
46:57
exchange dollars, you can pay each other in different payment
47:00
apps and that can be facilitated through crypto.
47:03
So it really has its use online. And I really hope the next few
47:07
years is digital ID system gets rolled out, we start to use more
47:11
of it in person. Now I don't think this should be
47:13
the only way to do things, but it is really, really useful for
47:16
remote payments. I don't have to drive to
47:18
someone, give them a several coin or whatever.
47:21
It has its use in the grand scheme of things.
47:25
Are we just being old farts? Being Luddites?
47:29
Are we just those people who are moaning about the inevitable
47:34
future? Luddites.
47:39
Yeah, there have been Luddites in every generation, and I think
47:43
we're an important aspect of society.
47:46
But this, this digital ID, it's different than anything we've
47:50
ever seen in the past because it's the final, it's the final
47:54
component of this digital control grid.
47:57
It's a system that denies our very right to exist unless we
48:01
let a third party name it. Big tech company or government,
48:04
create an identity for us. And we only exist if they do
48:09
that for us. And that's the danger because
48:12
people need to remember their own authority.
48:16
They have authority over their own lives.
48:19
They can even impact their other people's lives.
48:21
They can impact their communities.
48:23
So I think that all of these things are important.
48:26
Like knowing your identity as a Luddite means that you know what
48:29
values you stand for, and the next few years will make that
48:33
really obvious, what you stand for.
48:35
You can either stand for complaining about the world and
48:38
scrolling, doom scrolling, or you can get off your ass and do
48:41
stuff in the real world, which is what I advocate for and I
48:44
know it's what you advocate for too.
48:46
So I think yes, be be a Luddite, but also don't shoot yourself in
48:53
the foot if there are tools that can help you along the way.
48:55
What are some some things that you recommend?
49:00
Right now I think that everyone should be using AD Google phone
49:05
and a Linux laptop. And so my company above phone we
49:11
have the yougled phones and Linux laptops.
49:13
You don't. We're not the only game in town.
49:15
I highly encourage people to install it on their own if they
49:18
know how. I've got resources and guides on
49:21
take back our tech.org also on my substack tbot.substack.com
49:28
and the reason is is because these devices aren't pre hacked.
49:32
No one can install something on it without your knowledge,
49:35
unlike a Windows computer, which you have to scan your face to
49:39
get into it. You don't have to, but it's one
49:41
of the ways you use your fingerprints.
49:44
There's AI on every aspect of the computer that's analysing
49:47
everything you do, and you don't have any choice.
49:50
You have no personal choice or freedom to opt out of updates.
49:53
You are along for the ride and Bill Gates is running the train.
49:59
So same thing with your phone. Everything I mentioned when it
50:04
comes to your phone is is the same issues.
50:06
Apps can be updated without your knowledge.
50:08
Things can change. Often times I tell iPhone users,
50:12
hey, go look at your setting. Look, here's this setting that
50:15
has began scanning all the photos on your phone already
50:19
with AI and they're being added to a massive landmark database
50:24
that Apple has, right? So you don't have control of
50:27
your phone really. So we've been encouraging people
50:31
to use dehooled phones for about 5 years and we think we have
50:35
pretty much all the important things figured out.
50:38
So navigation, there's tools on our phones that let you navigate
50:42
without even being connected to the Internet.
50:44
You can download a map of the world and you know in real time
50:49
and you have that map and then you can put your phone on
50:52
airplane mode and get turned by turn navigations because turns
50:55
out GPS is a passive system. If your phone is listening to
51:01
radio waves, it's not actually needing to send anything out.
51:04
Similarly with YouTube, there are ways you can watch YouTube
51:08
privately and download the videos directly to your phone,
51:12
right? This is transforming our
51:13
relationship with technology. So if you want to learn more
51:15
about that, I have a webinar that I did.
51:18
You could go to learn.abovephone.com where I
51:21
just go over everything, the phone, the laptop do.
51:24
And I think this is a really important way to opt out of
51:27
digital ID because again, if you use a pre hacked device, it
51:31
could just be imposed on you one day.
51:33
The cameras are definitely running and have gone over your
51:36
face, and it might even become required to use a device at a
51:40
certain point. You can download maps of your
51:43
area and then you're saying you can turn your phone into
51:46
airplane mode and still use Google Maps?
51:51
Yes, there's the name of the app is called Open St.
51:56
Maps and it's and it's not Google Maps but it is a non
52:04
profit effort and it's an app that you can use on AD Google
52:08
phone. You can also use it on a normal
52:10
Google phone for, for the time being anyways, in two years,
52:14
Google's is imposing new rules and we can talk about that.
52:17
But yeah, so I mean, I've, I've taken a tour of the Eastern
52:19
United States using this open source map alone, open St.
52:23
Maps, Android. And you can, what I really like
52:26
about it, like what I've been doing with it is instead of
52:29
using Google Maps, I don't use Google.
52:31
I try to avoid it at all costs. And I, and I'm building a record
52:37
of things in my hometown that I want to go do, like the organic
52:41
markets, the cafes that I go to. And I'm saving it and all I have
52:45
it on like a local map database. The really cool part about it is
52:48
I can share this file with other people and they can import it,
52:51
right? So it's like we have to take
52:53
back our power when it comes to this technology.
52:56
A map is a really useful tool. Like I, I don't need a map if
52:59
I'm in somewhere I, I know well, but it's a very useful tool.
53:03
Like imagine having a little bit of a community, you kind of know
53:07
all the places in town to hang out that don't impose digital
53:11
ID, that don't get processed food, that type of thing.
53:14
And when someone is trusted enough in your community, you
53:17
can actually provide this map file to them.
53:19
Here you go. Here's everything on our
53:20
network. So that's kind of the techno
53:23
optimist vision I have in for the future.
53:26
Would you would you recommend people put the devices onto
53:31
airplane mode when they leave the house?
53:36
If you're going to a protest, most definitely.
53:42
If you're going to any form of like, what do I even say?
53:46
If you're going to go be active for A cause somewhere that might
53:50
attract any sort of attention, just leave your phone at home.
53:52
Don't even take it with you. So there's Google's Sensor
53:58
Vault, which you may have heard about.
54:00
That's the Geo fencing database. This is a new type of law
54:05
enforcement tool that lets them pick a date and a time.
54:09
So they have a law enforcement, they want to know where someone
54:12
was at the scene of the murder. So they go on the map, they draw
54:15
a box around the area, they pick a date and the time, and they
54:19
can actually pull up all the Google phones in that area.
54:23
So they've had the power to do this.
54:26
They used it during the infamous January 6 protests to catch
54:31
people. They've used similar things to
54:37
around like these. These are the most popular types
54:40
of law enforcement warrants in the United States right now.
54:44
I think it's like a few thousand a year.
54:46
But they've blown up in popularity because it's less
54:49
groundwork that they have to do. And they also land innocent
54:52
people in jail. God forbid you let someone
54:54
borrow your phone or you log into your account on someone
54:57
else's phone that happens to be a murderer.
54:59
And I talk about this on the webinar.
55:01
There have been innocent people who were in jail and lost a lot
55:04
of things because they were more likely to trust the data than
55:08
they were that person's alibi. So all these crazy things can
55:11
happen when people use big tech phones and they don't realize
55:14
it. There are a lot of things that
55:16
happen on the back end and I haven't even talked about the
55:20
data centres or anything like that yet.
55:22
Yeah, you said a moment ago that Google have got new rules coming
55:25
in the next two years. Yeah, so with the rise of open
55:31
source software, Linux laptops and de Googled phones, Google is
55:36
actually threatened. They're threatened by this.
55:39
And so earlier this year it goes in March or May, they published
55:45
A blog post saying, Hey, guys, we we studied the different
55:50
place where you can download apps.
55:53
To provide some context, if you use an Android phone, you can
55:57
install an app from anywhere. They're called APK Files, and
56:00
it's an app you can install on your phone.
56:02
You can get it directly from the developer's website.
56:04
So if you use maybe a web browser or search engine, you
56:07
might realize you can download it directly from their website.
56:10
It's not like that for iPhones. They can only download things
56:13
through the App Store, right? So, so Google had this freedom
56:17
and it allowed for this community to develop of people
56:21
building free and open source apps where the code was
56:25
transparent. So you could see that there was
56:26
no tracking in it. And this is too popular now
56:30
because Youtubers are talking about it, people are talking
56:32
about it, people are using it. And now this community has grown
56:35
so big, Google says, all right, we got to lock this down.
56:39
And what they're doing is by 2027, they will make side
56:45
loading, installing apps on the side impossible for anyone who
56:49
uses a Google phone. That goes for Google, Samsung,
56:52
Chinese brands like Xiaomi, OnePlus, anything that is
56:56
licensed Google operating system.
56:58
They won't be able to install the rest of the apps that are
57:02
already sitting out there. So it creates this digital wall
57:04
between US and it sucks for them.
57:07
It sucks for people who use big tech phones because it's not for
57:10
the people who use the Google phones.
57:11
It's for the people who use big tech phones.
57:13
When I. Was in China, I saw, I saw what
57:20
Huawei, they've now developed their own operating system and
57:24
their own apps and they've they've developed an entire
57:28
ecosystem. What do you know about that?
57:32
Yes, it's the battle for battle for app stores.
57:36
This is so this is crazy, but Google can bully multi billion
57:41
dollar companies around. It's actually really cool to
57:45
learn about this, but basically what you see is Google has these
57:51
malicious or exploitive licensing agreements.
57:56
Hey, you want to use the Google operating system on your phone
57:59
and get all the benefits that it comes with.
58:01
Okay, that's great, but you must only use the Google Play Store.
58:06
You can't market your own Play Store and you can't pre install
58:11
these certain apps on the phones like Epic Games, Fortnite.
58:14
That was a whole controversy. So Huawei has probably been
58:18
dealing with these issues under Google and they've decided, all
58:22
right, we don't want to deal with this.
58:24
We don't want to continue to offer Google Play.
58:25
We want to build our own ecosystem.
58:27
So now they are launching this alternative and I'm not sure how
58:32
it's going to go. They'll have to work something
58:34
out with Google to at least be able to to run the this called
58:42
Google Play integrity, which is a check to make sure it's a
58:45
licensed Google device. So they'll need that because a
58:48
lot of apps around the world will require this.
58:51
But if they don't get it, which they might not because China
58:54
has, you know, so much going for it and so much like people who
58:58
are dedicated to it, If it just works with Chinese apps, I'm
59:00
sure that's all right, too. So, yeah, big tech companies are
59:03
starting to realize that they shouldn't be bullied by Google.
59:07
There's also some antitrust rulings in the EU that have
59:10
pushed Google further back. What would your nugget of wisdom
59:14
be? Yeah.
59:17
So you have about two to three years before this starts
59:22
becoming real and it starts to impact your life on a day-to-day
59:26
level. If you're in the EU, it'll
59:28
happen sooner. If you're in the United States
59:31
or Mexico, it might take a little bit of longer, take a
59:34
little bit longer, but it's happening.
59:36
Wherever you're at in the world, it's happening.
59:38
And you cannot let it get to a point where most people are
59:43
using this digital ID system because then there's no point
59:47
for them to continue adopting and they will put the walls up.
59:50
So imagine one day you get a notification from your bank
59:54
saying you don't have a digital ID.
59:56
You can't access your funds. Or you go to the grocery store
59:59
and those little doors and stuff that they have, those little
1:00:02
terminals that they have before you enter the store.
1:00:04
Now there's a place to scan your digital ID.
1:00:06
What are you going to do? If you don't do anything about
1:00:09
what I just said, you're absolutely fucked.
1:00:12
You're going to have to figure something out.
1:00:13
You're going to have to comply with a digital ID and everything
1:00:16
that comes after it, which means you'll be a slave in its own
1:00:21
way. Or you can take these next few
1:00:23
years to build that local community that's so important.
1:00:27
Have alternatives for this. When they tell you OK, you know
1:00:31
you can't access your bank account once, it's OK because
1:00:33
you have a barter network or you have an alternative currency.
1:00:36
You're invested in gold and silver, you're growing your own
1:00:40
food, you're more resilient when you go to the grocery store,
1:00:43
same type of thing. It's very important for us to
1:00:46
build these local networks now and for the communication side
1:00:50
to make sure you have devices that can't be hacked without
1:00:53
your knowledge. So the timeline is there.
1:00:57
This is another COVID in its own way, and it's setting the stage
1:01:00
for complete world domination. So reclaim your authority.
1:01:06
Is this the hill to die on? I think so, you know, the Agenda
1:01:12
2030 is, is one thing that that gets brought up over and over
1:01:16
again. And I think this is the, it's
1:01:19
the sucky part is this is like just the first piece of Agenda
1:01:24
2030. And once the digital ID is
1:01:26
there, the rest of things can come after it.
1:01:28
So I think this is the hill to die on this decade.
1:01:32
Who knows, maybe there'll be like a Skynet thing to fight.
1:01:35
Maybe you have to fight. Fight the robots and aliens next
1:01:38
year. Save your energy for that
1:01:40
digital ID this year. It's really easy, guys.
1:01:42
Just use a different device. We can fight the robots in
1:01:46
20-30. It'll be much better.
1:01:48
It'll be harder. All right, one last time.
1:01:51
How can my audience follow you? Yeah, so check us out on
1:01:56
Substack. That's TB, ot.substack.com.
1:02:00
If you want to learn about the tech solutions I brought up, go
1:02:03
check out our webinar at learn.abovephone.com.
1:02:07
learn.abovephone.com. We also have it's the end of the
1:02:11
year, so we're having a sale on privacy phones and laptops.
1:02:14
If you want to learn about that, go to abovephone.com/germ.
1:02:20
It's just Germ's name and. I didn't know about that.
1:02:26
Oh, I should. I should have mentioned it to
1:02:27
you. But, you know, we, we, Yeah, we
1:02:30
want. To go, I'm going to go have a
1:02:32
look. What's on there?
1:02:36
It's just your face, really, big, Germ recommends about now.
1:02:40
Just kidding. I do, I do.
1:02:41
I recommend. All right, Akima Noir, Thank you
1:02:47
for joining me in the Drenchers, my friend.
1:02:50
Thank you brother. It's Honor beyond.
1:02:51
Thanks everyone for listening.