Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Interviewing Ashley Giordano: Adventurer, Journalist, and Overlander

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Interviewing Ashley Giordano: Adventurer, Journalist, and Overlander · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
0:06
Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady. My co host Matt Scott is
0:09
Speaker 1: not with us today because he is hopefully somewhere in
0:11
Speaker 1: Tanzania on his honeymoon. So congratulations Matt, thank you so
0:15
Speaker 1: much for all that you do. And I am sitting
0:18
Speaker 1: in a scout camper at the Overland Expo Mountain West,
0:22
Speaker 1: and I am here with a guest that I've been
0:23
Speaker 1: wanting to interview for a very long time, Ashley Giardano.
0:26
Speaker 1: Thank you Ashley so much for being on the podcast.
0:29
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
0:31
Speaker 1: Well, I have to say that your travels with Richard
0:35
Speaker 1: throughout South America I think is one of the most
0:37
Speaker 1: inspiring that we have seen in a very long time.
0:40
Speaker 1: And there's a few reasons why it was so meaningful
0:43
Speaker 1: to me and for those that are listening. We're going
0:45
Speaker 1: to get some random noises because we are in the
0:47
Speaker 1: middle of the Overland Expo, so we apologize for that. Well.
0:50
Speaker 1: Then we've also had podcasts where you can hear, you know,
0:53
Speaker 1: rhino in the background or birds chirping. So that was
0:56
Speaker 1: a Yeah, that was a waste management truck that just
0:59
Speaker 1: went by, so hopefully that's the end of that. But
1:02
Speaker 1: one of the things that I loved so much about
1:05
Speaker 1: your travels was you picked a very accessible vehicle that
1:09
Speaker 1: is also very appropriate for the task. So I think
1:13
Speaker 1: oftentimes people will will pick a vehicle that kind of
1:16
Speaker 1: looks the part of adventure, whereas and yours very much
1:20
Speaker 1: did look the part of adventure. But they will pick
1:22
Speaker 1: the vehicle that maybe they think is the one that
1:24
Speaker 1: they need for travel, whereas a simple, reliable pickup truck
1:28
Speaker 1: is oftentimes exactly what you need to go travel the Americas.
1:31
Speaker 1: So I think that your trip down there, the photography
1:34
Speaker 1: that you guys produced, it was kind of the first
1:37
Speaker 1: that we had seen of a North American traveler that
1:41
Speaker 1: was doing a great job of telling their story and
1:43
Speaker 1: a great job of documenting their story. We hadn't seen
1:46
Speaker 1: a lot of that until you guys started traveling, So
1:48
Speaker 1: that was I think of like the first mark, a
1:51
Speaker 1: high water mark that we saw around content and storytelling.
1:54
Speaker 1: And that was when I first started following you guys.
1:56
Speaker 1: So that was very inspiring. So start to tell us
1:59
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you got interested in travel.
2:03
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So Richard and I didn't really start out
2:08
Speaker 2: with a passion for travel when we were younger. We're
2:12
Speaker 2: both from small towns in BC, and it just wasn't
2:15
Speaker 2: on our radar. But as early in adulthood, we came
2:21
Speaker 2: across a pair of flights that were about five hundred
2:25
Speaker 2: dollars returned to Japan.
2:27
Speaker 1: Wow.
2:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really cheap. It just came on sale,
2:30
Speaker 2: and we had a friend that she was teaching English
2:33
Speaker 2: in Japan, and so we thought, cheap tickets. We have
2:36
Speaker 2: got a friend there already, and so we decided to
2:39
Speaker 2: jump on that opportunity. And we had never traveled internationally
2:43
Speaker 2: before that trip, and so being in Japan was an
2:46
Speaker 2: incredible experience and that's what started this whole thing. Just
2:50
Speaker 2: we love the countries that are so different from our own,
2:54
Speaker 2: and we learned so much about the people there and
2:56
Speaker 2: the culture and just beautiful scenery and it was just
3:00
Speaker 2: fascinating to both of us and we had such a
3:02
Speaker 2: good time we didn't even want to go home.
3:04
Speaker 1: What were some of the things you liked most about Japan?
3:07
Speaker 2: The people were really gracious and helpful. We had one
3:12
Speaker 2: man who we were riding on the bullet train, which
3:15
Speaker 2: is looking back now, I just think it's incredible that
3:17
Speaker 2: we could meant navigate the bullet training system. Everything's in
3:21
Speaker 2: Japanese and trying to pronounce it in English is yeah.
3:25
Speaker 2: It was crazy. And we didn't even get lost once somehow,
3:28
Speaker 2: I don't know, except for actually we didn't get lost. Now.
3:31
Speaker 2: So we were on this train and we didn't know
3:33
Speaker 2: where we were going, and this man spoke English, and
3:37
Speaker 2: he was asking us where we're from and where we
3:39
Speaker 2: were going, and he stayed on the train going in
3:42
Speaker 2: the opposite direction of his house for a considerable amount
3:45
Speaker 2: of time to make sure we arrived safely and at
3:48
Speaker 2: the stop we wanted to be at. And so we
3:51
Speaker 2: had never experienced anything like that before.
3:54
Speaker 1: From my perspective with Japan, it was the first country
3:57
Speaker 1: that I went to that was a First World country
3:59
Speaker 1: that was so different from my own and different in
4:02
Speaker 1: a lot of very special ways. And that doesn't mean
4:04
Speaker 1: that Jamphanan doesn't have their challenges around some of those
4:06
Speaker 1: cultural components. But I remember getting on to the train
4:10
Speaker 1: and there was a bunch of younger people, working folks,
4:14
Speaker 1: and an older man stepped onto the train and all
4:17
Speaker 1: of them stood up. Everybody that was young that was
4:20
Speaker 1: able to give up a seat, They all stood up.
4:23
Speaker 1: There was no question. The old gentleman started walking towards
4:26
Speaker 1: one of them, and the young man stood out of
4:27
Speaker 1: the way and gave him his seat. And to see
4:30
Speaker 1: that kind of respect towards elders is so rare to
4:35
Speaker 1: find in the Western world. It certainly exists within certain
4:38
Speaker 1: countries in Europe, but to see that was just so
4:41
Speaker 1: special in my mind.
4:43
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. I also thought that the attention to detail
4:47
Speaker 2: and craftsmanship there is out of this world that, yeah,
4:52
Speaker 2: they have. I don't know what I can't remember what
4:54
Speaker 2: the Japanese term is, but there's a term for somebody
4:56
Speaker 2: who specializes in that one thing and masters it, and
4:59
Speaker 2: they spend our whole life to dedicating themselves to mastering
5:03
Speaker 2: whatever that is. Whether it's sake or cabinet tree, doesn't matter.
5:07
Speaker 1: So and what what were some of the things that
5:10
Speaker 1: you encountered in Japan that like really captured you in
5:13
Speaker 1: that way? Like, what were some of the things that
5:15
Speaker 1: you found.
5:16
Speaker 2: We visited and stayed in a Buddhist temple, which was
5:20
Speaker 2: also an incredible experience, and just the food spread, I
5:25
Speaker 2: guess in the morning and in the evening we would
5:27
Speaker 2: sit in this Buddhist temple on the floor and they
5:30
Speaker 2: had maybe like three or four tables with all these
5:33
Speaker 2: tiny little dishes of all these different types of food
5:36
Speaker 2: and it was all vegetarian, but it was so creative
5:40
Speaker 2: the way that they presented it and cooked everything, and
5:43
Speaker 2: it was absolutely beautiful. And then we went and attended
5:48
Speaker 2: the morning service and I was able to ask a
5:51
Speaker 2: bunch of questions to the monks afterwards, which was really fun.
5:54
Speaker 2: So we had Google translate out and I was just
5:56
Speaker 2: asking them all these questions and they were so kind
5:59
Speaker 2: to answer.
6:00
Speaker 1: And how is that experience being at a Buddhist templed
6:03
Speaker 1: What did you find you took away from that?
6:05
Speaker 2: Wow? I think just that ability to ask somebody questions,
6:11
Speaker 2: that they live such a different life than we do
6:14
Speaker 2: and having an insight into their world was the biggest
6:17
Speaker 2: thing for me. Yeah, And that's a huge part of
6:20
Speaker 2: why we travel is to.
6:22
Speaker 1: Start to soak up other people's lives in a way,
6:25
Speaker 1: for sure. And one of the things that I also
6:27
Speaker 1: love about the Japanese culture is that they certainly have
6:30
Speaker 1: this slant towards perfection, but then they have like this
6:33
Speaker 1: this consideration of grace towards that and they call it
6:36
Speaker 1: wabi sabi, which is to also embrace the imperfections. Like
6:41
Speaker 1: a piece of wood that has an odd not in it,
6:44
Speaker 1: for example, would be considered beautiful, whereas in Western culture
6:49
Speaker 1: we may say, oh it has a knot, it's not
6:51
Speaker 1: a good piece of wood. Right, So it's really it's
6:54
Speaker 1: really very special that they have that ability to be
6:57
Speaker 1: such perfectionists, but then also to embrace in perfections as well.
7:01
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, that's what makes a piece unique.
7:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, no one. It just shows those ancient cultures have
7:09
Speaker 1: that ability to get to that level of consideration, Whereas
7:12
Speaker 1: I think that there's benefits to younger cultures as well.
7:15
Speaker 1: There's a lot of enthusiasm and motion and energy and
7:20
Speaker 1: n all of that that can come from that, which
7:21
Speaker 1: I think is a positive thing. But to experience an
7:24
Speaker 1: older culture where they allow for time for things to
7:27
Speaker 1: be as they are, that's pretty rare.
7:30
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
7:31
Speaker 1: And where did you travel next after Japan?
7:35
Speaker 2: We traveled After Japan, we traveled to Southeast Asia, and
7:39
Speaker 2: so we took a trip through Vietnam, Cambodia, Lao, and Thailand.
7:43
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I've not been to any of those countries.
7:46
Speaker 1: I don't know why I have not been to that
7:50
Speaker 1: part of Asia. More and I want to and Matt
7:53
Speaker 1: talks about it regularly. What were some of the things
7:56
Speaker 1: that you loved and enjoyed about.
7:58
Speaker 2: That I think was such a surprise for us because
8:02
Speaker 2: we didn't know anything about it. We just added it
8:04
Speaker 2: onto the list, and we had watched Anthony Bourdein's travel
8:07
Speaker 2: show and he went there and we're like, eh, well,
8:09
Speaker 2: we're here and it looks amazing. So we ended up
8:12
Speaker 2: going and the you can go and watch the monks
8:17
Speaker 2: alms in the morning and so this big, long lineup
8:21
Speaker 2: of monks wearing the orange robes will walk down the
8:25
Speaker 2: main street and collect food from the local residents there,
8:30
Speaker 2: and so that was quite cool. Vietnam was really interesting.
8:34
Speaker 2: The history. Obviously there is very you know, it's fascinating,
8:39
Speaker 2: but there's also quite a dark history. So we went
8:41
Speaker 2: to the War Remnants Museum and that was very insightful
8:45
Speaker 2: just about the past Vietnam War and the effects on
8:48
Speaker 2: the people there even still today with the Agent Orange
8:51
Speaker 2: and all of that. So, yeah, as Westerners, it's just
8:55
Speaker 2: interesting to look at As Westerners, it's interesting to look
8:58
Speaker 2: from the personspective of another country in that way. So
9:02
Speaker 2: visiting the museum really taught us a lot about viennam.
9:05
Speaker 1: Well and how from from our perspective, it was this
9:08
Speaker 1: moment in history that is looked back at on as
9:11
Speaker 1: a moment in history. For them, it is still very
9:13
Speaker 1: much part of their present. And I think that that's
9:15
Speaker 1: the difference. Once once an organization or once a country
9:18
Speaker 1: leaves a place that they that there's these long term effects,
9:23
Speaker 1: and you see it everywhere that we travel. I remember
9:26
Speaker 1: being in Greenland and some locals were pointing over to
9:29
Speaker 1: the other side of this inlet and they said, that's
9:32
Speaker 1: where the Vikings were. Oh my gosh, and it's just
9:35
Speaker 1: it's and you could see the ruins of this Viking
9:38
Speaker 1: home and that was a very very long time ago,
9:41
Speaker 1: and they remember that. The locals remember that, and it's
9:45
Speaker 1: and it's now part of their present.
9:47
Speaker 2: Right.
9:48
Speaker 1: The Vikings are long gone, but that is still part
9:50
Speaker 1: of their now. They're current, which is very interesting, yes,
9:54
Speaker 1: and it's not something that we have as much here
9:56
Speaker 1: in the US. And maybe that's why when we get
9:58
Speaker 1: the chance to interact with the Aboriginal peoples from this place,
10:04
Speaker 1: that it's so important. And you have that very much
10:06
Speaker 1: in Canada. Have you had those experiences as well?
10:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, not enough as I would have liked. However, when
10:13
Speaker 2: we did our trip up to Tech Tooyak Tech, we
10:16
Speaker 2: spent some time with a guide there and he talked
10:19
Speaker 2: to us about his experiences in the area and the
10:22
Speaker 2: history and how he's trying to bring the culture back
10:26
Speaker 2: in his generation after residential schools happened in Canada, and
10:30
Speaker 2: so he's learning how to build a glues and learning
10:34
Speaker 2: about medicinal plants and bringing it back, but also teaching
10:39
Speaker 2: tourists who come in about living outside and the history
10:42
Speaker 2: of the inuvial culture up there, which is really beautiful.
10:47
Speaker 1: He was beautiful.
10:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. He was saying that they brought some elders
10:53
Speaker 2: in when he learned how to make agglos and they
10:55
Speaker 2: were crying because they hadn't seen them for so long
10:58
Speaker 2: or hadn't seen them at all. So, yeah, it's so
11:01
Speaker 2: powerful and I was really fortunate to have that experience
11:04
Speaker 2: and have that chat with him.
11:06
Speaker 1: Well, and and the two of you went at the
11:08
Speaker 1: right time because now that the summer road is there,
11:12
Speaker 1: that is such an opening for tuk tiak Tuk of visitors.
11:17
Speaker 1: Before that you would have to fly in or you'd
11:19
Speaker 1: have to take a long boat trip. Or you'd have
11:21
Speaker 1: to go in the wintertime on the frozen river. And
11:24
Speaker 1: they just didn't They just didn't get very much, very
11:27
Speaker 1: much visitors. And when the first time that I traveled
11:30
Speaker 1: there was in spring of two thousand and seven, and
11:34
Speaker 1: it was they had not seen hardly any tourists. And
11:37
Speaker 1: so we started interacting with the locals, and this gentleman
11:41
Speaker 1: was very proud of the things that he had done deservedly.
11:44
Speaker 1: He was a traditional polar bear hunter, so he would
11:47
Speaker 1: go out with his dogs and a spear. He would
11:50
Speaker 1: have no gun, and to him, that was this acknowledgment
11:54
Speaker 1: of his past, of his culture, and that he chose
11:57
Speaker 1: to not hunt in with a rifle because he wanted
12:00
Speaker 1: to be as close as which is what he said.
12:02
Speaker 1: He wanted to be as close as possible to his
12:05
Speaker 1: ancestors in that process. And I'm thinking, this guy's these guys,
12:09
Speaker 1: I mean not that I would ever want to kill
12:10
Speaker 1: a polar bear, but I understand why they do and
12:13
Speaker 1: it's part of their culture. And he brings out this
12:16
Speaker 1: polar bear hide and these polar bear gloves, and that
12:19
Speaker 1: made a huge difference for his family. That was worth
12:23
Speaker 1: a lot of money, and it also allowed him to
12:25
Speaker 1: gain status in his community, and so it was very
12:29
Speaker 1: interesting to see. And then the next time that I went,
12:31
Speaker 1: which was in twenty sixteen, there was already like little
12:36
Speaker 1: condos that you could rent, like little airbnbs, So that
12:39
Speaker 1: not very long at ten years, and it had changed
12:42
Speaker 1: so much. Yes, yes, how was that when you went
12:45
Speaker 1: to tuk tyak Tuk. What did you experience when you
12:47
Speaker 1: were up there around kind of infrastructure?
12:50
Speaker 2: And it was a really weird situation when we were
12:52
Speaker 2: there because COVID nineteen had become a pandemic at that point,
12:58
Speaker 2: but it was very very early in America. And so
13:01
Speaker 2: we literally just drove up from Innuvik in a day
13:05
Speaker 2: and we went to the sign, the Arctic Ocean sign,
13:08
Speaker 2: and took pictures and went back down to Inuvik again
13:12
Speaker 2: because I think the local people were concerned at that time,
13:17
Speaker 2: and so we didn't want to interact with anybody or
13:20
Speaker 2: talk with anybody. We wanted them to feel comfortable and
13:24
Speaker 2: so we'll have to go back up again, because yeah,
13:28
Speaker 2: we were just there and then unfortunately left. But yeah,
13:31
Speaker 2: well but that was time.
13:32
Speaker 1: That was very thoughtful of you to do that too,
13:35
Speaker 1: because a lot of those communities were at higher risk.
13:37
Speaker 1: And they're also so remote, yes that when you need
13:41
Speaker 1: that medical support, it's difficult to get people out of there.
13:44
Speaker 1: So that makes a lot of sense. And they probably
13:46
Speaker 1: shortly after you were there, they probably shut everything down.
13:48
Speaker 1: I would think, yeah, yeah, outside travelers, I would suspect yes, yeah.
13:54
Speaker 1: And what other things from that particular trip. I know
13:57
Speaker 1: we're jumping around a little bit on the timeline, but
13:59
Speaker 1: since we're talking about your and that was the solo
14:03
Speaker 1: series with Expedition Overland and it was you guys did
14:07
Speaker 1: some great content from that. In fact, we had your
14:09
Speaker 1: story in Overland Journal and we also had then Clay
14:12
Speaker 1: and his team put out your video series, which was excellent.
14:15
Speaker 1: So those that are listening, please make sure you take
14:18
Speaker 1: a look at the solo series featuring Ashley and Richard
14:21
Speaker 1: on their trip up to Tuck. So, I mean, the
14:23
Speaker 1: imagery was incredible, But what were some of the takeaways
14:26
Speaker 1: for you traveling so close to home, Like the fact
14:29
Speaker 1: that you weren't in another country, you were in Canada,
14:32
Speaker 1: but going to someplace very different.
14:33
Speaker 2: So the trip was very challenging, I would say, in
14:37
Speaker 2: some ways more challenging than our trip to South America was,
14:40
Speaker 2: which was kind of surprising to us, but the weather
14:43
Speaker 2: was just it was what dictated our travel because we
14:47
Speaker 2: did it in the wintertime and so that it just
14:50
Speaker 2: changes everything. As you know, you did that trip in
14:54
Speaker 2: the winter as well. The one thing we love is
14:56
Speaker 2: to love outside, and so we found we were sleeping
14:59
Speaker 2: in expedition overlands Tacoma with the at habitat on it,
15:03
Speaker 2: and we were always like battening the hatches down. Obviously
15:06
Speaker 2: sure because the winter times it felt like we were
15:08
Speaker 2: in a space ship, which is cool, but also we
15:12
Speaker 2: want to take the covers off and open the windows
15:14
Speaker 2: and see the trees and the scenery, and so that
15:17
Speaker 2: was a bit tough and just the it was such
15:20
Speaker 2: a long trip. It's so far north. I think we
15:25
Speaker 2: determined that we could have driven to Mexico City from
15:28
Speaker 2: where we were instead if we went south.
15:32
Speaker 1: It's crazy how far away it is.
15:33
Speaker 2: So far, so there's a lot of driving.
15:36
Speaker 1: And that's actually for those that are listening, that's actually
15:38
Speaker 1: the furthest north that you can drive in the Americas
15:42
Speaker 1: is to Tuck Tiuktuck. You know. Actually in Canon, excuse me,
15:47
Speaker 1: the furthest north that you can drive in in North
15:49
Speaker 1: America is to prude Obay, but it's the only place
15:52
Speaker 1: that you can actually access the Arctic Ocean. So a
15:55
Speaker 1: lot of times people will drive to prude Obay expecting
15:58
Speaker 1: that they can drive their vwhicle all the way to
16:00
Speaker 1: the water, and you can't do that, right, you have
16:03
Speaker 1: to take you to get on like the tourist bus
16:05
Speaker 1: and go out there and you can dip your finger
16:07
Speaker 1: to your polar plunge or whatever. But Tuk Tuk Tuck
16:10
Speaker 1: because it is so remote, and I think it's actually
16:13
Speaker 1: a better trip. So that's I think my conclusion, having
16:17
Speaker 1: done Pruto a few times and Tuck a few times,
16:19
Speaker 1: is that every time that I've gone to Tuck, it
16:21
Speaker 1: has been a much more wonderful experience for me because
16:25
Speaker 1: you get interact with the locals. It's not this huge
16:28
Speaker 1: oil field. You can actually get the vehicles to the ocean.
16:32
Speaker 1: We were fortunate to be able to get the expedition
16:34
Speaker 1: seven trucks to the ocean, but that took a lot
16:36
Speaker 1: of work. It took a lot of energy and interaction
16:40
Speaker 1: with people and permissions to actually get the vehicles to
16:43
Speaker 1: the ocean. Whereas with Tuck, if you drive the ice road,
16:46
Speaker 1: it's this amazing landscape that you get to drive through
16:49
Speaker 1: to go all the way up to the ocean. So
16:51
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool.
16:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dempster Highway is quite spectacular. We really enjoyed
16:56
Speaker 2: that too.
16:57
Speaker 1: So yeah, but did you see any wildlife along the way.
17:01
Speaker 2: We saw a fox, an Arctic fox, which was quite awesome, beautiful.
17:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, we saw probably a thousand ptarmigans.
17:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I think we saw moose er too, and.
17:16
Speaker 1: Any muskos. Yeah, they're totally like out of Star Wars.
17:20
Speaker 1: There's so awesome.
17:21
Speaker 2: There's one section that, well, we've been up to Whitehurst
17:25
Speaker 2: twice in the winter, there's one section of the highway
17:27
Speaker 2: that we always see them and that was quite cool.
17:31
Speaker 2: And they're just sitting around and they got all this
17:33
Speaker 2: snow in their fur and they're so hardcore. But yeah,
17:36
Speaker 2: they're pretty fun.
17:38
Speaker 1: They're so unusual. Yeah, that's what I love about them.
17:40
Speaker 1: They're so cool. Yeah, they're really really neat. And the
17:45
Speaker 1: first time that we drove up there, we had gone
17:47
Speaker 1: through Eagle planes and they just because again there was
17:51
Speaker 1: like so few few tourists that the locals were in
17:54
Speaker 1: communication and they knew like when the road was going
17:56
Speaker 1: to close and all that, and we didn't know, and
17:59
Speaker 1: the road was actually closed. They just forgot to close
18:01
Speaker 1: the gate. So off we went, like we're you know,
18:04
Speaker 1: north into a total wide out where we were going
18:07
Speaker 1: five miles an hour, going from post to post to
18:10
Speaker 1: try to see And we get to the other end
18:13
Speaker 1: and one of the locals was there at the closed
18:15
Speaker 1: gate in the north. He's I said, I was hoping
18:17
Speaker 1: we'd see you. Oh gosh. And and what was really
18:21
Speaker 1: fun though? They took it very well, and they said
18:24
Speaker 1: the road was closed. We know we didn't close the gate,
18:26
Speaker 1: but please make sure you check in before you you
18:29
Speaker 1: go across. And he said, but go up into the
18:31
Speaker 1: top of the hill and you'll see the wolves on
18:33
Speaker 1: a caribou killes. And so I start running up to
18:37
Speaker 1: the top of this hill and I'm I'm almost at
18:39
Speaker 1: the top, and I'm thinking, what am I doing? Why
18:41
Speaker 1: am I running towards the wolves plane? And I get
18:45
Speaker 1: to the top and sure enough there was these and
18:48
Speaker 1: they were giant, I mean, they looked enormous to me
18:50
Speaker 1: wolves And they were very far away, still hundreds of
18:53
Speaker 1: meters away. And I got a couple photos, blurry photos,
18:58
Speaker 1: but I just remember that that moment of feeling myself
19:00
Speaker 1: moved down the food change.
19:02
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure.
19:03
Speaker 1: And have you had moments encounters like that with wildlife
19:05
Speaker 1: and your travels.
19:07
Speaker 2: We haven't, not at all. It's more been weather for us.
19:11
Speaker 1: Sure.
19:11
Speaker 2: It's like when we were in Eagle Planes, we were
19:13
Speaker 2: trapped there for five days waiting for the road to
19:17
Speaker 2: open because the gate was closed for us, and then
19:20
Speaker 2: in fact we couldn't go back the other way because
19:22
Speaker 2: the other gate they closed the other gate because the
19:25
Speaker 2: weather was so poor. And then in Innuvik it was
19:29
Speaker 2: the same thing. We were there for quite some time
19:31
Speaker 2: just waiting for the road to open again. That one
19:34
Speaker 2: pass is just it's pretty hardcore with weather. So yeah,
19:39
Speaker 2: it's more weather problems that we had on that trip.
19:43
Speaker 1: And it's so fun because when they finally opened the
19:45
Speaker 1: road and then you've got these huge you know snow
19:48
Speaker 1: you know space like driving on the dunes of snow. Yes, yeah,
19:52
Speaker 1: or did they clear the.
19:53
Speaker 2: Road now they cleared it. They had a big storm
19:56
Speaker 2: while they were there, so there was there was definitely cleared.
20:00
Speaker 2: But it was so funny because we had this we
20:02
Speaker 2: had the Exo vehicle and of course it's got all
20:05
Speaker 2: the bells and whistles, but most of the people we
20:07
Speaker 2: met there were in like a van or you know,
20:10
Speaker 2: they have like no recovery gear or they're visiting family
20:13
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and no studed tires and they
20:17
Speaker 2: still made it where they had to go. So and
20:20
Speaker 2: truck drivers they drive that route all the time in
20:22
Speaker 2: the winter they do. Oh, it was really interesting.
20:25
Speaker 1: I think those are important reminders, those humbling reminders of
20:28
Speaker 1: I mean, a vehicle like the Tacoma that you guys drove,
20:32
Speaker 1: it does allow for very remote, very poor conditions, and
20:36
Speaker 1: that's the upside. But oftentimes, even when you think you're
20:40
Speaker 1: on an expedition in a way, here comes like the
20:43
Speaker 1: mom and her kids in the minivan because they're just
20:44
Speaker 1: trying to get to school or they're trying to do whatever.
20:47
Speaker 1: And Matt and I talk about that a lot of
20:49
Speaker 1: you know, you could be in the middle of Africa,
20:51
Speaker 1: like I was in the middle of Uganda and I
20:53
Speaker 1: was in low range and the g wagon thinking I was,
20:56
Speaker 1: and then here comes the locals in the urcell. Yes,
20:59
Speaker 1: it's I love that because it just brings me back
21:02
Speaker 1: to the fact that it feels like I'm in this
21:04
Speaker 1: other universe. But for them, this is their day to
21:07
Speaker 1: day and it's just not a big deal. And that
21:11
Speaker 1: the more that we let go of feeling that we
21:14
Speaker 1: have to be prepared for everything, the more it opens
21:18
Speaker 1: us up to experiencing things truly on a deep level,
21:22
Speaker 1: because then you become a little more dependent upon the
21:24
Speaker 1: local resources and you go shopping where the local shop.
21:27
Speaker 1: And the more that we open ourselves instead of closing
21:30
Speaker 1: ourselves up in a vehicle, the better. I think.
21:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's you want to have control of
21:36
Speaker 2: what's going on, and as soon as you kind of
21:38
Speaker 2: give up control and start saying yes to things or
21:41
Speaker 2: accepting a road closure for five days, that's kind of
21:45
Speaker 2: where you learn a lot. So being in the Eco
21:47
Speaker 2: Planes Hotel for five days, there's only so much you
21:50
Speaker 2: can really do there, so we learned a lot from
21:55
Speaker 2: the other people that were staying there, or the people
21:57
Speaker 2: running the place, or they have a lot of historical
22:00
Speaker 2: photos all posted up, so just learning about the history
22:04
Speaker 2: of the area. It was great and we got a
22:07
Speaker 2: little bit of a break. We had to embrace rest,
22:10
Speaker 2: so that was quite important.
22:12
Speaker 1: It can be rare for us to have those moments
22:14
Speaker 1: of stillness when we travel, because we were always so
22:18
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say, we I can oftentimes be so goal
22:21
Speaker 1: focused that I'm pushing towards whatever it is that I'm
22:24
Speaker 1: trying to get to, having those moments like where you're
22:26
Speaker 1: stuck for five days. So did you find yourself reading
22:29
Speaker 1: a bit or Yeah?
22:30
Speaker 2: I definitely I did read, and I was taking a
22:34
Speaker 2: lot of notes. And they had TV in the room
22:37
Speaker 2: with cable somehow, so we watched Bones and Frasier a lot.
22:42
Speaker 2: And there was no There was a little bit of
22:45
Speaker 2: cell serve, not cell service, but you could pay for
22:48
Speaker 2: like Wi Fi, and so we would go on, but
22:50
Speaker 2: not very often because it was pricey. Yeah, it was
22:53
Speaker 2: interesting and.
22:54
Speaker 1: Different, right, very different. So let's go back a little bit,
22:58
Speaker 1: and we're going to go back in time a little bit.
23:00
Speaker 1: So you go toow, you go to Vietnam, you go
23:03
Speaker 1: to Thailand, and at this point you're still traveling by
23:08
Speaker 1: air Did when did you start to travel by vehicle
23:12
Speaker 1: a little more?
23:13
Speaker 2: So, all of this traveling that we did was all
23:17
Speaker 2: during our vacation time. So I think that's important to
23:20
Speaker 2: bring up too. With our jobs we were I think
23:23
Speaker 2: I had three weeks of vacation time as a paralegal
23:26
Speaker 2: at that point, and then I would ask for an
23:29
Speaker 2: extra week unpaid, and they always said yes, because I
23:33
Speaker 2: was going I wasn't staying in town. I was going
23:37
Speaker 2: somewhere abroad, and so they were like, sure, go for it,
23:41
Speaker 2: which was amazing. I don't know how often common that is,
23:45
Speaker 2: so I was really grateful about for that. Anyways, So
23:48
Speaker 2: the next trip we went on was Israel, Jordan and Turkey,
23:52
Speaker 2: and that I think was the trip that put a
23:54
Speaker 2: little kind of seed into our head because we saw, well,
23:59
Speaker 2: we traveled through Wadi Rum in Jordan in the back
24:02
Speaker 2: of an old Toyota pickup truck with the local bedwinds,
24:06
Speaker 2: and so that was like a little bit of an
24:08
Speaker 2: introduction into overland travel. And then we saw a sticker
24:13
Speaker 2: or what's that overland company name? They have got those
24:17
Speaker 2: huge oh sure trucks. Yeah, it's escaping meet right now.
24:21
Speaker 2: I think it's like starts with an M. Anyways, there
24:25
Speaker 2: was a company mission overland. No is there Africa, mostly
24:30
Speaker 2: huge huge vehicles almost like a bus, where they have
24:34
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of people and they go overland through
24:36
Speaker 2: all these different countries. Yes, I don't know why it's escaping.
24:39
Speaker 1: There is one that's called overland mission or mission overland
24:42
Speaker 1: something like that, and then there's there there's a bunch.
24:45
Speaker 2: Of them, right, Okay, I guess it doesn't really matter
24:47
Speaker 2: what it is. But we saw a sticker in Turkey
24:50
Speaker 2: at a hostel. We're like, what is this, and so
24:52
Speaker 2: we started looking into it. Then we got home and
24:56
Speaker 2: we were living in Vancouver at the time, and unben
25:00
Speaker 2: to me, Richard had been reading some blogs about traveling
25:04
Speaker 2: through the Americas in old toyotas nice and so Land
25:10
Speaker 2: Cruising Adventure was one Home on the Highway, Yeah, yeah,
25:15
Speaker 2: Home on the Highway Land Cruising Adventure and Ruined Adventures
25:20
Speaker 2: and the dangers. They didn't travel in a Toyota, but
25:23
Speaker 2: they had that really old VW bus. So he was
25:25
Speaker 2: reading all of those blogs online. So we had this
25:29
Speaker 2: impression of overlanding as oh, you take an old Toyota
25:32
Speaker 2: or an old vehicle and you traveled the Americas. We
25:35
Speaker 2: had no idea about vans. We had no idea about
25:38
Speaker 2: any of the other types of vehicles. Anyways, so at
25:42
Speaker 2: that time we were working desk jobs and side doing
25:46
Speaker 2: our side hustles, and we just got burnt out because
25:50
Speaker 2: we started looking at our life and we're like, hey,
25:52
Speaker 2: we're not having any fun. We're not doing anything that
25:55
Speaker 2: fills us up. It's all work, work, work, work, work,
25:58
Speaker 2: And we knew that we had to make a change
26:01
Speaker 2: and that was really hard because we had to pull
26:04
Speaker 2: out the programming. You know, like we are kind of
26:08
Speaker 2: conditioned in life to be like, Okay, this is what
26:11
Speaker 2: you do. You go to school and then you go
26:13
Speaker 2: to university, and then you get married, and then you
26:16
Speaker 2: have kids, and you buy a house and you get
26:18
Speaker 2: a dog.
26:19
Speaker 1: Right, and then sixty years goes by and you think
26:22
Speaker 1: I haven't done anything I really wanted to.
26:24
Speaker 2: Do, right, And so I think that realization was actually
26:28
Speaker 2: really hard, and making the decision was really hard because
26:33
Speaker 2: we thought, oh, we're doing the responsible thing. We're working
26:36
Speaker 2: and this is just what you do, and to pull
26:39
Speaker 2: out of that was it was hard. But we knew
26:41
Speaker 2: that we had to do it and shake things up
26:43
Speaker 2: because we were still in our early twenties and we
26:46
Speaker 2: thought we should just do it. Let's do it now.
26:49
Speaker 2: So the blog posts were basically what inspired us to
26:53
Speaker 2: go and we only really thought we were going to
26:56
Speaker 2: go to Panama.
26:58
Speaker 1: So, yeah, is that kind of what inspired the name?
27:02
Speaker 1: Kind of going from the desk, Yeah, I got it.
27:04
Speaker 1: That's great.
27:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we had watched Dust to Glory about the
27:07
Speaker 2: wa behad one thousand raised the documentary and we're like, oh,
27:11
Speaker 2: this is kind of an interesting name, but we're going
27:13
Speaker 2: from our desk to Glory.
27:15
Speaker 1: So that's great. Now, those that are listening, you can
27:18
Speaker 1: follow their adventures at Dusk to Glory. And you guys
27:20
Speaker 1: still have your website too, right, Yeah, so great Instagram
27:24
Speaker 1: page as well, So go check that out for sure
27:28
Speaker 1: and see all the places that they've been.
27:35
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28:32
Speaker 1: You end up getting an old Toyota just like the
28:34
Speaker 1: blogs told you to, and you start heading down through
28:38
Speaker 1: the America's with the goal of just going to Panama.
28:40
Speaker 1: So did what changed between there and Panama that made
28:45
Speaker 1: you want to go further?
28:46
Speaker 2: So we got on the road and we absolutely loved
28:48
Speaker 2: what we were doing, and we met all these people
28:51
Speaker 2: that were going north or south on the Pan American
28:53
Speaker 2: Highway and they're like, you have to go to South America.
28:57
Speaker 2: We were doing some research about it, and I just
28:59
Speaker 2: saw this scenery and we knew that we loved the mountains,
29:02
Speaker 2: and so we decided why not go all the way?
29:07
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, when we planned the first phase of the trip,
29:10
Speaker 2: we left after four months and that's not a lot
29:13
Speaker 2: of time, and so we kind of were scrambling to
29:16
Speaker 2: get ready. We like threw the vehicle together quickly, and
29:22
Speaker 2: we didn't really prepare financially. So we had a little
29:25
Speaker 2: bit saved up. We decided to park the truck in
29:28
Speaker 2: Costa Rica for a year and go back to work
29:32
Speaker 2: and fill up the bank account, gotcha.
29:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, So then you went back and you made it
29:37
Speaker 1: all about putting dollars in the bank to go travel again.
29:40
Speaker 2: Yes, And we learned so much about the first half
29:43
Speaker 2: of the We learned so much from the first half
29:46
Speaker 2: of the trip that we were great at not spending money,
29:50
Speaker 2: and so we knew we had a goal that we
29:52
Speaker 2: wanted to get to South America, and we rented a
29:55
Speaker 2: nine hundred square foot apartment and we just made sure
29:59
Speaker 2: that we didn't spend money on hardly anything at all,
30:03
Speaker 2: and it paid off because we were able to do
30:05
Speaker 2: the second half of.
30:06
Speaker 1: The trip and did that because you wanted to travel again.
30:09
Speaker 1: So much. Talk a little bit more. I think that'll
30:11
Speaker 1: be interesting for the listeners. How did you kind of
30:15
Speaker 1: construct your life to maximize the ability to save So
30:19
Speaker 1: talk maybe even in a little more detail about the
30:21
Speaker 1: things that you guys decided to do different to save money.
30:25
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we knew per day what our
30:28
Speaker 2: budget was on the road, so we could say, well,
30:32
Speaker 2: I could buy such and such, but that will cost
30:35
Speaker 2: us four days on the road. So we when we
30:39
Speaker 2: went we would still go out for dinner with friends occasionally,
30:42
Speaker 2: but we would split a meal, no appetizer, no drinks.
30:47
Speaker 2: We still got out every weekend to go hiking, which
30:50
Speaker 2: was great, and I think that was important for us
30:51
Speaker 2: to get out of the city. So we just prioritized
30:54
Speaker 2: so that gas money was really important to us to
30:56
Speaker 2: be able to sort of enjoy our time when we
30:59
Speaker 2: were back. So we made it a priority and just
31:02
Speaker 2: accepted that Vancouver is a really expensive place to live
31:07
Speaker 2: and even more so now. So we looked for the
31:11
Speaker 2: one of the chiefest apartments we could find and convinced
31:15
Speaker 2: the lady who owned it that we would be okay
31:18
Speaker 2: living in a tiny little apartment. She was like, this
31:20
Speaker 2: is for one person only, really, and so we showed
31:24
Speaker 2: her our pictures of us living in a rooftop tent
31:27
Speaker 2: and she's like, okay, this will be fine. That's very Yeah,
31:31
Speaker 2: it was pretty funny.
31:32
Speaker 1: That's so, that's such a great idea to understand how
31:36
Speaker 1: much money you spend a day when you're traveling, and
31:39
Speaker 1: then recognize that when you don't spend that sixty or
31:42
Speaker 1: seventy dollars on dinner, you've given yourself x number of
31:46
Speaker 1: days on the road, and maybe that's worth fleshing out
31:49
Speaker 1: real quick for those that are listening. Typically on a motorcycle,
31:53
Speaker 1: you can plan somewhere between. I've seen it as low
31:56
Speaker 1: as twenty seven dollars a day. Stefano Melgrotti from Italy
32:01
Speaker 1: wrote a two point fifty Yamaha around the world and
32:04
Speaker 1: he got down to twenty seven dollars a day on average,
32:07
Speaker 1: some days much less than that, but his average for
32:10
Speaker 1: his whole trip was that including food and fuel. But
32:14
Speaker 1: typically the motorcycles come in between thirty and sixty dollars
32:17
Speaker 1: a day, and then the vehicles, the full drive vehicles
32:20
Speaker 1: typically come in between fifty up to one hundred and
32:22
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a day. But what did you guys find
32:25
Speaker 1: that you were able to in a Toyota and that
32:27
Speaker 1: had a four cylinder? Right, so it got a little
32:29
Speaker 1: bit better gas knowledge? Is that maybe a little bit.
32:33
Speaker 1: So what did you find that you guys came in
32:35
Speaker 1: at per day when you're traveling in the Americas.
32:38
Speaker 2: So it ranged from about seventy five dollars and then
32:43
Speaker 2: in the US or Canada it was closer to one hundred, right, Yeah,
32:46
Speaker 2: So it did very quite a bit. And Baja was
32:49
Speaker 2: quite inexpensive for US, and so was Ecuador. So it
32:53
Speaker 2: just depends on the country you're in, but I would say,
32:56
Speaker 2: like on average, yeah, let's say I think we were
32:59
Speaker 2: about seventy let's say seventy eight dollars a day on average.
33:04
Speaker 1: Well, as I recall, you guys did a great job
33:07
Speaker 1: of actually recording a lot of those expenses, and you've
33:09
Speaker 1: even done some articles for us around like the cost
33:12
Speaker 1: of doing these trips, and for those that are that
33:15
Speaker 1: are listening, like what an interesting way to look at
33:18
Speaker 1: how you spend money every day in your day to
33:21
Speaker 1: day life and recognizing that that new iPhone thousand dollars
33:25
Speaker 1: twelve hundred dollars, that can be a couple weeks of travel,
33:29
Speaker 1: and maybe the old model is just fine to be
33:33
Speaker 1: able to facilitate our goals of seeing the world. And
33:36
Speaker 1: I think that that's such an important reminder that you've
33:39
Speaker 1: just given me also today, is just remember that everything
33:43
Speaker 1: that we spend money on that isn't that doesn't go
33:45
Speaker 1: towards our goals or towards whatever version of a rich
33:48
Speaker 1: life that we want to live, that that stuff costs
33:51
Speaker 1: us in some other way. We've gained maybe a new widget,
33:54
Speaker 1: but we've given up something else in the process. And
33:58
Speaker 1: also staying debt for too. I have found that in
34:02
Speaker 1: these conversations that I have with travelers, the most common
34:06
Speaker 1: facilitator towards them seeing the world is not being in debt.
34:10
Speaker 1: Maybe a house would be something that you could consider
34:13
Speaker 1: outside of that, because it's something you could rent or
34:14
Speaker 1: airbnb while you're gone. But it seems to be in
34:17
Speaker 1: general that having little or no debt really facilitates seeing
34:21
Speaker 1: the world.
34:21
Speaker 2: For sure, I would say we did not do that,
34:25
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't change it. Yeah, for the past, like
34:28
Speaker 2: I would have done it over and over and over again. Sure, However,
34:34
Speaker 2: the next journey for us, we want it to be
34:37
Speaker 2: more sustainable. So we've needed life changes to be able
34:41
Speaker 2: to work online so that we don't have to keep
34:44
Speaker 2: going back home.
34:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's an interesting question. Then how are Richard
34:49
Speaker 1: and you focusing on creating either businesses or jobs that
34:56
Speaker 1: facilitate you working from the road, And I think people
34:58
Speaker 1: will find that interesting. How you make it sustainable, how
35:01
Speaker 1: you sustain traveling around the world while you're working.
35:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're pretty green at that this whole thing
35:08
Speaker 2: right now. However, So I was a paralegal and I
35:13
Speaker 2: did some nutrition consultation on the side and Richard was
35:17
Speaker 2: a mechanical engineering technologist and he did wedding photography on
35:21
Speaker 2: the side, and so we kind of switched our skill
35:25
Speaker 2: sets a little bit and started on kind of like
35:29
Speaker 2: the media side. And so he Richard's running some social
35:33
Speaker 2: media accounts and doing photography.
35:35
Speaker 1: And he works with the Expedition Overlanding. Yes, it right.
35:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've both been on the team for quite
35:40
Speaker 2: some time. So I'll do copy writing for their newsletter
35:44
Speaker 2: and for their blog, and we've both been on trips
35:46
Speaker 2: with them.
35:47
Speaker 1: And then and Chelle are amazing, yeah, amazing humans.
35:51
Speaker 2: Yes, they've given me so Clay and Rochelle have offered
35:55
Speaker 2: both of us incredible opportunity to, I guess improve our
35:59
Speaker 2: skill in so many different areas, from Rachelle teaching me
36:04
Speaker 2: how to drive off road to giving me the opportunity
36:09
Speaker 2: to put blog post material together and trusting me to
36:12
Speaker 2: do that. And so we're really grateful for that, and
36:16
Speaker 2: even taking off on that solo trip, you know, they
36:19
Speaker 2: trusted us, that's a big yeah, and filming it and everything,
36:24
Speaker 2: that's yeah, we felt pretty honored that somebody would trust
36:27
Speaker 2: us to take that to the next level. For us.
36:30
Speaker 2: Gained a lot of skills. I think also Richard and
36:33
Speaker 2: I wear a lot of hats, and so I run
36:37
Speaker 2: some social media accounts as well and do content writing
36:40
Speaker 2: for some Overland companies. And then you guys at Overland
36:44
Speaker 2: Journal and Expedition or Expedition Overland Expedition, Overland Expedition Portal,
36:52
Speaker 2: Overland Journal, yeah.
36:53
Speaker 1: Anyway, Expeditions. Yes.
36:57
Speaker 2: So I've been really honored to be writing for Overland
37:01
Speaker 2: Journal and Expedition Portal for the last i think it's
37:03
Speaker 2: been a couple of years now at this point, and
37:07
Speaker 2: that's another way that we work from home, or work
37:10
Speaker 2: from the road, or work remotely.
37:12
Speaker 1: Well, we're certainly grateful for all the content that you've
37:15
Speaker 1: been producing, and Tina, our editor at Overland Journal, speaks
37:19
Speaker 1: so highly of the work that you're doing, and for
37:21
Speaker 1: those that are listening, it's recognizing that there is a
37:24
Speaker 1: way oftentimes to facilitate travel and being enthusiastic and being
37:31
Speaker 1: open minded to learn and then doing the good work.
37:35
Speaker 1: We oftentimes many of us forget that you just have
37:38
Speaker 1: to chop wood and carry water some days, and that
37:41
Speaker 1: facilitates this dream of traveling the world and doing the
37:45
Speaker 1: hard work and delivering on it. And you do that
37:47
Speaker 1: for us, and you do that for Clay and Rachelle
37:49
Speaker 1: and others, and that is now what's allowing Richard and
37:52
Speaker 1: you to have that life on the road. And so
37:55
Speaker 1: it's very possible. It's possible for people to do that.
37:57
Speaker 1: It seems so daunting in the beginning to think that
38:00
Speaker 1: somehow you could make money and still see the world,
38:03
Speaker 1: But it is possible.
38:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially now. I think a lot of companies are
38:07
Speaker 2: going remote and so I think there'll be a lot
38:09
Speaker 2: more opportunities in the future.
38:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of our employees can work from home or
38:14
Speaker 1: work from the road, and I don't care where they
38:17
Speaker 1: deliver the content from or do the work from. As
38:20
Speaker 1: long as they chop wood and carry water. That's it.
38:23
Speaker 1: That's what we really need to do is just spend
38:25
Speaker 1: the time. In fact, right now we're recording a podcast
38:27
Speaker 1: in a scout camper that I've been driving across the country,
38:31
Speaker 1: and so it's totally feasible to run a business or
38:34
Speaker 1: contribute to a business from the road now. And I
38:37
Speaker 1: think that the technology will just continue to improve to
38:40
Speaker 1: allow us to do that.
38:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think too. Not being afraid to ask, like
38:45
Speaker 2: reaching out if you're interested in a company or you're
38:47
Speaker 2: interested in a specific job. Don't be afraid to ask
38:52
Speaker 2: if they're hiring or ask if you can help out
38:54
Speaker 2: in some way, because you might be surprised what they say.
38:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember Tina gets a hold of me and
39:00
Speaker 1: she says, Ashley's interested in being an intern. I said, well,
39:03
Speaker 1: she can't be an intern, but we'll pay her. That's
39:06
Speaker 1: exactly what I told to you, because I'm just I've
39:09
Speaker 1: never liked not paying people. I prefer to just pay
39:12
Speaker 1: people well and then it just always ends up being
39:15
Speaker 1: a better outcome. So the only intern we've actually ever
39:18
Speaker 1: had was Chris Cordes. Actually, we've had a couple other
39:22
Speaker 1: people do some very short intern type things through the
39:25
Speaker 1: colleges and Prescott, but Chris Cordes was our first intern,
39:29
Speaker 1: and I technically couldn't pay him. So I'm trying to
39:32
Speaker 1: like get them fridges and other things like that. Because
39:35
Speaker 1: I'm technically through the college, I was not allowed to
39:37
Speaker 1: pay him. We hired them very shortly thereafter. So, but
39:40
Speaker 1: the internship thing can work out really well, for sure.
39:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
39:44
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're doing social media, you're doing
39:47
Speaker 1: some writing as well, and then it seems like that
39:50
Speaker 1: there would be opportunities for Richard two around kind of
39:54
Speaker 1: more of the technical things that he has experienced with
39:56
Speaker 1: as well. So have you guys ever thought about doing
39:58
Speaker 1: product design and other support that way.
40:00
Speaker 2: No, we haven't thought about that at all actually, But
40:05
Speaker 2: when we were living in Calgary recently when everything was
40:08
Speaker 2: locked down, he spent some quality time at the local
40:11
Speaker 2: there's a boutique four by four shop in Calgary called
40:14
Speaker 2: the Gear Shop, okay, and so he was helping with
40:17
Speaker 2: quotes and wrenching and just doing all the end their
40:22
Speaker 2: social media too. So he's really talented in so many
40:26
Speaker 2: different ways, so he can really fit in anywhere, which
40:29
Speaker 2: is awesome.
40:30
Speaker 1: It's that adaptability, right is so important if you want
40:33
Speaker 1: to go see the world. Now, let's talk a little
40:36
Speaker 1: bit about the writing side of what you do. You
40:39
Speaker 1: have You've done a lot of variety of writing for us,
40:43
Speaker 1: including a lot of interviews and a lot of you know,
40:47
Speaker 1: following other travelers and talking about how other travelers have
40:51
Speaker 1: have moved around the world and and some of your
40:54
Speaker 1: historic pieces I think have been the most some of
40:56
Speaker 1: the most meaningful content that we've had on the site
40:58
Speaker 1: because it's a reminder of the past and it's also
41:02
Speaker 1: the reminder that anyone can do this, that it doesn't
41:05
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be a certain kind of person.
41:07
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be this grizzled adventurer that can
41:10
Speaker 1: go travel the world. Anyone can do that. And I
41:13
Speaker 1: believe that the diversity of those stories is one of
41:17
Speaker 1: the most important things that we can do as Overland
41:20
Speaker 1: International is to continue to tell the story from every
41:23
Speaker 1: perspective that we can find. And what has been some
41:26
Speaker 1: of the more inspiring stories for you that reflect that diversity.
41:31
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, there are so many, But let's go
41:35
Speaker 2: into historical first. When I don't know why I got
41:39
Speaker 2: so inspired to write about the history of overlanding, but
41:41
Speaker 2: I think it's because when you think of the history
41:44
Speaker 2: of overlanding, I think everybody kind of thinks of one trip.
41:47
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's accurate. Like what automatically comes
41:50
Speaker 2: to your mind when you think of the history of overlanding.
41:53
Speaker 1: Well, I definitely think of the Wescotts. Those are some
41:56
Speaker 1: of the one The Gary and Monica Westron definitely come
41:59
Speaker 1: to mind because they were so formative for me when
42:01
Speaker 1: I first started, for sure started looking at doing this.
42:04
Speaker 1: The Camel Trophy very much. So yeah, did that as well.
42:07
Speaker 1: But it's interesting the number of people that I talked
42:10
Speaker 1: to that are new to the industry and they don't
42:13
Speaker 1: know what the Camel Trophy is, or they don't know
42:16
Speaker 1: or they don't know who Gary and Monica Westcott are.
42:19
Speaker 1: You know, both of those are were very formative for me.
42:22
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I think the other one that comes up
42:25
Speaker 2: a lot is the Cambridge Oxford Cambridge, the first Overla expedition. Yeah,
42:32
Speaker 2: that one comes up pretty much all the time, which
42:34
Speaker 2: I think is amazing because that was an incredible trip.
42:37
Speaker 2: But also Barbara Toy was traveling at the same time
42:41
Speaker 2: in a land Rover series one by herself through Saudi
42:44
Speaker 2: through Yemen, through Syria. Two women in a jeep driving
42:49
Speaker 2: around Africa ran into the Oxford Cambridge guys in Northern
42:53
Speaker 2: Africa at the beginning of their trip. So there are
42:57
Speaker 2: all sorts of cool history pieces that are out there,
43:02
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's really inspiring, and that's like a lifelong
43:06
Speaker 2: work putting all those together and all.
43:09
Speaker 1: Of those those little nuggets that you pick up from that,
43:12
Speaker 1: and then you've been able to start to even interview
43:15
Speaker 1: some of these folks that are maybe towards the end
43:17
Speaker 1: of their life, and they had these incredible journeys. What
43:20
Speaker 1: is maybe the top two or three lessons that you've
43:23
Speaker 1: gleaned from that from talking to these travelers who had
43:27
Speaker 1: these absolutely incredible journeys that actually would be very difficult
43:31
Speaker 1: for you and I to ever have because we have GPS, now,
43:34
Speaker 1: we have satellite, we have all of these technologies that
43:37
Speaker 1: allow us to remain very connected. Whereas if you think
43:40
Speaker 1: about the first overland there was no way other than
43:43
Speaker 1: the occasional post that they could send in the mail,
43:46
Speaker 1: that they could know what was going on in the
43:48
Speaker 1: world or communicate back to their families. What did you
43:51
Speaker 1: find in talking with these people that was that two
43:55
Speaker 1: or three bits of wisdom that you've applied to your
43:58
Speaker 1: own life and travels.
44:00
Speaker 2: I think it's incredible because although they traveled at a
44:03
Speaker 2: completely different time and sometimes through countries that we can't
44:07
Speaker 2: actually access now, there is like a spirit of overland
44:10
Speaker 2: travel that is the same like they'll have they have
44:13
Speaker 2: written in books or told me and interviews, the same
44:17
Speaker 2: thing that we feel, you know, getting out there and
44:21
Speaker 2: just leaving and the importance of the importance of travel,
44:25
Speaker 2: and how it's almost like the media or the world
44:28
Speaker 2: wants you to believe that it's a dangerous place, but
44:31
Speaker 2: you have to go see it for yourself. That was
44:34
Speaker 2: almost every single book or interview I've done in some
44:38
Speaker 2: way has said that.
44:39
Speaker 1: So you have this huge group of people that have
44:41
Speaker 1: all said the same thing, and it's I wonder why
44:44
Speaker 1: it can be so hard for us to believe it.
44:47
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that the media is so effective at
44:50
Speaker 1: keeping people afraid. And I guess the more that they're afraid,
44:53
Speaker 1: the more that they watch television, and the more that
44:55
Speaker 1: they watch television, the less that they're interested in going anywhere. Absolutely,
45:00
Speaker 1: and that's it, Like you said, breaking that cycle of
45:03
Speaker 1: this is what is expected of my life, that I
45:06
Speaker 1: go to school, that I go to university, that I
45:09
Speaker 1: get married, that I have children. Those think to interrupt that,
45:12
Speaker 1: You're right, it sounds like it is painful to do that,
45:16
Speaker 1: And I wonder what. I wonder what we can do
45:19
Speaker 1: as an as an industry, as a as a community
45:21
Speaker 1: to help people feel less afraid. I mean, what are
45:24
Speaker 1: some thoughts that you have on helping people take that
45:28
Speaker 1: next step? When someone asks you, how did you do that?
45:30
Speaker 1: What do you tell them?
45:31
Speaker 2: I think we were so desperate to leave that we
45:34
Speaker 2: just felt like there was no choice that we had
45:37
Speaker 2: to go. But the fear part. The best kind of
45:42
Speaker 2: advice that I've ever heard given was by Sunny Eaton
45:46
Speaker 2: of the Vegabroads, and she said, to focus on the
45:49
Speaker 2: people that have actually done the trip. They've actually been
45:53
Speaker 2: in Africa. If you're going to Africa, they've actually been
45:56
Speaker 2: in Guatemala, if you're going to Guatemala. Not focusing on
45:59
Speaker 2: the name sayers that haven't even been there, because what
46:03
Speaker 2: do they know? You know what I mean?
46:05
Speaker 1: They want a box like the media does. They want
46:09
Speaker 1: they want. It seems as if when you hear the naysayers,
46:13
Speaker 1: it's they're projecting their own fears onto you that they
46:16
Speaker 1: haven't done that trip yet, or they are afraid to
46:19
Speaker 1: do it themselves. And so it seems to be that
46:22
Speaker 1: they can be a very loud voice to the contrary
46:25
Speaker 1: of going, because then it keeps all of us from
46:28
Speaker 1: going and having those experiences.
46:29
Speaker 2: Eight. I think Eric and Brittany of Our Less Life.
46:33
Speaker 2: I was sitting in on a presentation of theirs yesterday,
46:36
Speaker 2: and Eric made a really good point that if they
46:39
Speaker 2: traveled the world for ten years and had an amazing time.
46:42
Speaker 2: Nobody would ever hear about it. But if they got
46:46
Speaker 2: kidnapped or you know, of course they would make the news.
46:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
46:51
Speaker 2: So how many travelers out there, and there are a
46:53
Speaker 2: lot of them, You never hear about them, You never
46:55
Speaker 2: hear their story, You never hear like all the positive
46:58
Speaker 2: things that are happening.
46:59
Speaker 1: And that's it's been the general consensus in people that
47:02
Speaker 1: I've talked to is they've all had these very positive experiences. Yeah,
47:05
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean that you don't have a couple
47:07
Speaker 1: bumps along the way. No, those things absolutely happen, but
47:10
Speaker 1: they happen in real life. They happen in I mean
47:12
Speaker 1: real life. They happen in day to day life as well.
47:15
Speaker 1: People get their car stolen and people get robbed in
47:17
Speaker 1: downtown Vancouver. Oh yeah, And I mean I think about
47:21
Speaker 1: parts of Phoenix that I wouldn't want to go to.
47:23
Speaker 1: But maybe it's because those things are familiar that they
47:26
Speaker 1: don't seem so scary.
47:27
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and really digging into the fear, like what
47:31
Speaker 2: are you really afraid of that's going to happen? And
47:34
Speaker 2: why here is a big.
47:36
Speaker 1: Deal it is? And the amount of energy that we
47:38
Speaker 1: spend worrying about things that haven't actually happened. It's a
47:43
Speaker 1: lot of energy, it's a lot of end and I
47:45
Speaker 1: think it probably served itself well for humans one hundred
47:49
Speaker 1: thousand years ago. Yes, like anxiety probably had some kind
47:53
Speaker 1: of benefit to the human species, But I don't think
47:56
Speaker 1: it works as well today. In fact, I think it
47:59
Speaker 1: limits people's opportunities because the world is safer than it's
48:03
Speaker 1: ever been statistically. I mean, there's a great book called
48:06
Speaker 1: Factfulness that actually goes into the actual statistics of the
48:10
Speaker 1: world being way safer than it has ever been, way
48:13
Speaker 1: more peaceful than it's ever been, way less death than
48:17
Speaker 1: there's ever been. People are healthier in most ways than
48:20
Speaker 1: they've ever been. We believe because of what we see
48:23
Speaker 1: on the news that it's the exact opposite, that it's
48:25
Speaker 1: the most dangerous time, and it's the most divisive time,
48:29
Speaker 1: and it's the most unpeaceful, and none of that is true.
48:32
Speaker 1: The truth is is that the world is a very
48:34
Speaker 1: safe place. And once we believe the facts, and once
48:38
Speaker 1: we do the research and we look into the facts
48:40
Speaker 1: and we don't we're not so anxious. And I think
48:44
Speaker 1: that as a community, the more that we can encourage
48:46
Speaker 1: each other and say, you know, I haven't been there,
48:48
Speaker 1: but this is a person that I know that did
48:50
Speaker 1: go to Guatemalay, and you should talk to them. I
48:54
Speaker 1: think that that would be a way to change the
48:56
Speaker 1: script instead of saying, oh, I don't know, that seems
48:59
Speaker 1: so uns say if they have so much, so many
49:01
Speaker 1: kidnappings there or whatever. And the truth is is that
49:05
Speaker 1: there are dangerous places in the world, but they're very
49:08
Speaker 1: isolated or they're even very regional. So you can go
49:10
Speaker 1: into a country and there is a hot spot, but
49:13
Speaker 1: you can be in another city and it's totally fine.
49:15
Speaker 1: Everybody's getting their groceries and going to work and it's
49:18
Speaker 1: very safe. So I think that's an important reminder and
49:20
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that.
49:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've tried to be really intentional when we were
49:25
Speaker 2: traveling that we weren't on the defense. We were always
49:27
Speaker 2: very open and always smiling and always you are Canadian
49:32
Speaker 2: very open. Yeah.
49:36
Speaker 1: Oh, that's wonderful. When you're looking at going forward, talk
49:41
Speaker 1: a little bit about where you want to go next
49:43
Speaker 1: and what some of the goals are for your upcoming trips.
49:46
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So we've been just dying to do
49:49
Speaker 2: the Silk Road. We were going to go in twenty twenty.
49:53
Speaker 2: I have had an Excel spreadsheet already with you know,
49:56
Speaker 2: FEESA requirements and this and that and Kirkyston in Kazakhstan
50:01
Speaker 2: and oh my gosh, I just I'm in love with
50:03
Speaker 2: the history of that part of the world and the
50:06
Speaker 2: route and just everything about it, and I can't wait
50:09
Speaker 2: to go when the time is right. But yeah, unfortunately,
50:12
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be happening till I
50:15
Speaker 2: don't know when. I'm not sure, but that's our goal.
50:18
Speaker 2: And I think if we can get the truck to Europe,
50:21
Speaker 2: even just as a starting point, part of me is
50:23
Speaker 2: like whatever, I'll just stay there until the road opens up.
50:28
Speaker 1: It would be so bad.
50:30
Speaker 2: So yeah, that trip I'm really excited about. And I
50:34
Speaker 2: would love to get into Northern Africa on that trip too.
50:38
Speaker 2: That's the thing about the historical stuff is I just
50:40
Speaker 2: keep reading about all these places and keep adding them
50:43
Speaker 2: onto the list. So yeah, we're also interested in the
50:47
Speaker 2: Middle East again, So if an opportunity came up fly
50:50
Speaker 2: and by you know, sure, we would do that too.
50:54
Speaker 2: So we'll see what happens. We're excited to find out.
50:57
Speaker 1: Well, just getting the vehicle to Europe, like you talked about.
51:00
Speaker 1: Then you've got a bunch of options to go, and
51:03
Speaker 1: maybe you start moving east and surprisingly things can open
51:07
Speaker 1: up and you make it to Turkey, and then you
51:09
Speaker 1: go from Turkey into Georgia, and then then you're like, oh,
51:12
Speaker 1: Azerbaijan's open. So then you make it to Azerbaijan, and
51:15
Speaker 1: then the Caspian Sea ferries open again, and Turkmenistan is
51:19
Speaker 1: allowing people in and the next thing you know, you're
51:21
Speaker 1: moving your way across exactly, and then you've got options
51:24
Speaker 1: for there. I mean, Iran is it was the one
51:28
Speaker 1: regret that I had from the Silk Road was not
51:31
Speaker 1: taking having the courage to just do it and go
51:34
Speaker 1: into Iran, and I missed. I missed that opportunity on
51:37
Speaker 1: that trip, and I wish that I had done it.
51:38
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would love to go, and I think
51:42
Speaker 2: as Canadians, we can get in if we hire a guide.
51:46
Speaker 2: I don't know since COVID, obviously, I don't think we
51:48
Speaker 2: can get in right now, but I haven't been keeping
51:50
Speaker 2: tabs on it. But pre COVID, that was what we
51:53
Speaker 2: were thinking we would do, so we'll see.
51:56
Speaker 1: Well that sounds amazing. Share to the listener. How people
52:00
Speaker 1: can follow your trips, Richard and your trips where you
52:04
Speaker 1: guys are on all of the social interwebs and so
52:07
Speaker 1: that they can follow you.
52:08
Speaker 2: Sure. So our website is Deskticglory dot com and I
52:13
Speaker 2: wouldn't say it's kept up regularly right now, but if
52:16
Speaker 2: you are looking in for any Pan American content, we
52:20
Speaker 2: have done a lot of blog posts, so there's a
52:23
Speaker 2: lot of information on there. And then on Instagram Desk
52:26
Speaker 2: to Glory and my personal one is Deustic Glory underscore Ash.
52:30
Speaker 2: Same with Facebook, and we do have YouTube Desk to
52:35
Speaker 2: Glory on there too, and we're hoping to update with
52:38
Speaker 2: more videos as we hit the road.
52:40
Speaker 1: Oh, that'll be amazing. Since I know you're a voracious reader,
52:44
Speaker 1: and this is one of my most favorite things to ask.
52:47
Speaker 1: This is an entirely selfish ask that I do in
52:49
Speaker 1: almost every interview because I like to read. Talk to
52:52
Speaker 1: me about your top couple favorite books.
52:56
Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this last night because this
52:59
Speaker 2: is such a hard question for me, and I don't
53:01
Speaker 2: think I have top favorites, but I'll tell you what
53:05
Speaker 2: I've been reading recently.
53:06
Speaker 1: Do that that sounds great?
53:07
Speaker 2: So the one recently that I really enjoyed is called Quiet,
53:12
Speaker 2: and it's about differences between extroverts and introverts and how
53:16
Speaker 2: the loudest room in the voice isn't necessarily the one
53:19
Speaker 2: with the best ideas.
53:21
Speaker 1: Sure.
53:21
Speaker 2: So yeah, the author she also has a ted talk
53:26
Speaker 2: that's really good and it'll kind of summarize the book
53:29
Speaker 2: if you don't want to read the book. But I
53:31
Speaker 2: highly recommend the book too because there's a lot of
53:34
Speaker 2: really good studies and personal anecdotes. So, yeah, that's a
53:39
Speaker 2: great one. I really like Russian spie like books. So
53:44
Speaker 2: Agent Sonya is when I've been reading recently about she
53:48
Speaker 2: was a communist Russian agent that was quite instrumental in
53:54
Speaker 2: I think it was World War yeah, world War two.
54:00
Speaker 1: Fiction.
54:00
Speaker 2: It's non fiction. Yeah, So she traveled all over the
54:04
Speaker 2: world and she was under this guise because she had
54:08
Speaker 2: a couple kids, and so nobody suspected this woman with
54:13
Speaker 2: a family to be sending intel back to Russia.
54:18
Speaker 1: Interesting.
54:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite good. What else? When I was younger,
54:24
Speaker 2: I really loved Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. It's fiction.
54:29
Speaker 2: It's like a Gothic novel with a lot of twists
54:32
Speaker 2: and turns and there's a movie on Netflix now, but
54:34
Speaker 2: I would highly recommend the book over the movie.
54:39
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for the book recommendations. I always love them.
54:41
Speaker 1: Going to check out Quiet That sounds like a great read. Yeah,
54:45
Speaker 1: probably a nice one, even in the like as an
54:47
Speaker 1: audiobook while you're driving.
54:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
54:50
Speaker 1: And then is there any other travelers that you've been
54:53
Speaker 1: following recently that are particularly inspiring to you that other
54:56
Speaker 1: people could check out?
54:58
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, there are so many. I mean, Richard
55:01
Speaker 2: and I always go back to Grizzly and Bear because
55:04
Speaker 2: they've been everywhere and they're also avid climbers and hikers,
55:09
Speaker 2: and we love overlanding because it takes us to those
55:13
Speaker 2: places where we can get out of the truck. We
55:15
Speaker 2: really appreciate the footage of them hiking or climbing.
55:20
Speaker 1: Sure, oh that's one.
55:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're great.
55:22
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much Ashley for being on the
55:25
Speaker 1: podcast and for those listening. Ashley has developed this fantastic
55:29
Speaker 1: way of interviewing overlanders from the past and currently traveling
55:33
Speaker 1: around the world. So we're actually going to have some
55:37
Speaker 1: podcasts from Ashley where she's going to be interviewing other
55:40
Speaker 1: travelers and kind of gleaning from them their experiences and
55:44
Speaker 1: some other insights. So look for more of Ashley in
55:48
Speaker 1: the future on the Overland Journal podcast and we thank
55:50
Speaker 1: you all for listening. We'll talk to you next time.