Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Darling Bish Hour: Maternal Instinct

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Darling Bish Hour: Maternal Instinct · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Drama, Darling Drama, Darling Drama, Darling.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hi, Friends, and welcome to another Darling Bish Hour with
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: our dear friend Amy Phillips. Hi, Amy, friend Melissa Reich, Hi, Hi,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: how are you well?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: I'm doing okay. I have to say this is not
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: our normal Kiki time. Even though I know we take
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: on some serious topics, this is one that certainly left
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: me pretty scarred. I have to say about what we're
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: going to discuss, So immediate trigger warning. Melissa will give
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: you all those trigger warnings. Momentarily, we may not have
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: as many laughs as we normally do.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe not, although you know I do love an inappropriate giggle.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: But you know, I'm going to try my best, especially
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: with the mood that I'm in. My brain is just
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: like not firing on all cylinders. But Amy is right.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So today what we're covering is Maternal Instinct on Netflix,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: which is truly one of the darkest, most horrifying documentaries
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: that probably I've ever seen. Me too, which puts it
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: in perspective because you know, I'm a true crime girl
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: and I watch a lot of true crime, but this
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Maternal Instinct. When I watched it, I felt a really
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: important need to cover it, but also knew that it
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: would be a challenge. Right, We're not talking we're not
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: key keying, we're not talking about housewives and something stupid
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: that Alicia said. We're talking about very serious psychological issues here.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: But there's a lot for us to talk about.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: So at the top, I'm going to give a trigger
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: warning that we are going to be talking about, oh,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of things.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: We're going to be talking about murder.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about specifically death of an
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: infant of a mother, and we're going very very violent,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: very disturbing details. We're going to be talking about personality disorders,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and you know, I'm going to talk about the difference
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: between cluster A, cluster B, cluster C things like that.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I just encourage people to use their discretion because what
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: we're about to cover it, it's no joke.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: This is there's tints.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I think that any trigger warning that's ever put out there,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I think that you should just assume that there's a
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: trigger warning for this because it really does, you know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: it covers pretty much everything out there, Yeah.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: From murder to deceit to just things that a regular
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: human brain has trouble processing. All of this, which is
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: why I feel called to cover it because so many
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: people have asked, you know, why and what's going on,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: and so.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Everybody's talking about everyone seeing it, and it really is,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: I think, like the number one documentary on Netflix right now,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: or at least this week. And I was shocked by
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: the end of this because I did not know this story.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: I have to be completely honest with you, I felt
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: so sick to my stomach I almost threw up, that's
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: how bad. And truly have done very much of a
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: deeper dive past this just to find out more answers
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: to some of the questions that I had, because the
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: documentary can only cover so much and they did a
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: great job, so there were a lot of unanswered questions,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: you know, just details here and there. So I did
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: do a little investigating with that, and in doing that,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: I know Melissa has covered so much of the clinical
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: aspect of it, and I'm going to be posing questions
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: to her just from you know, the viewer perspective, the
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: pedestrian perspective as to what maybe you guys would be
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: asking someone like Melissa, since she's got an amazing background
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: and truly has her finger on the pulse of all this,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: so I'm very interested. I think that this was an
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: awakening for me on many respects in terms of personality disorders. Yes,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: this was a huge awakening for me to understand what
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: this is. And it also became a personal thing for
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: me because I know someone who has personality disorders much
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: like this, and I never understood how serious that can be,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: and now I feel like I am getting it. So
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: for that, that's why I am grateful for these types
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: of documentaries and covering these things.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Wow, you know.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And the thing that I'll say is like everyone experiences
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: personality disorders differently, and I look at everything clinically on
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a spectrum from not problematic on one side to pathological
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: on the other. And for me, you know, who has
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: worked with people in practice treating personality disorders and things
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: like that, this case, to me is it's very intense
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and it's like nothing I've ever even watched or seen before.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So yeah, let's get into it with I'm going to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: share a little bit.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: I'm going to share the synopsis, yes and synopsis yes.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Also for people listening to this, if you haven't watched
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Maternal Instinct, please know we're about to tell you what happens.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So there are I don't even to call them spoilers,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: because it's not like this is not like great entertainment,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: right you how to describe it?
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? You're gonna know what happened
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: in this story by the end of it.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I'm about to tell you what happened. So if you
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: don't want to know, tune out watch Maternal Instinct and
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: come back, okay you or don't watch it, or literally
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: don't all yeah and just listen to this because I
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: definitely know that there is some people, especially if you've
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: struggled with infant loss or child loss, this can be
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: very triggering to fox. Yes, yes, the synopsis Netflix. Maternal
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Instinct is a harrowing true crime documentary detailing the twenty
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: twenty murder of twenty one year old Reagan Simmons Hancock
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: in New Boston, Texas, which, by the way, New Boston,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Texas is a very small town. I think it was
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: like a population of fifteen hundred people. So it's worth
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: noting because you know, things like this typically don't happen
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: in very but dangerous people live among us, and I
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: think that's the scary thing and also important to know
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: So continuing with the synopsis, it chronicles the chilling links
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to which Taylor Parker went to maintain an elaborate fake pregnancy,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: which culminated in her brutally murdering Hancock and surgically removing
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: her unborn baby.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: To pass off as her own.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: So I'll give you a little bit of the case
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: background and then we can start talking a little bit
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: about it. So the deception was this woman named Taylor Parker.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: She faked a pregnancy for months to deceive her boyfriend
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Wade Griffin. Her elaborate ruse included fake culture sounds, a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: maternity photoshoot, and a gender reveal party. The crime took
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: place in October twenty twenty. Taylor Parker attacked her friend,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: twenty one year old expectant mother, Reagan Simmons Hancock, in
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: her home. Taylor Parker murdered Hancock and cut her feetus
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: from her womb while her child was in the next bedroom.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Which I added that because there's another level of pathology
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and antisocial behavior that goes to that this woman killed,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: this woman, cut her baby out and took the baby
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and left the child there just disgusting. And then the
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: aftermath was hours later, Parker was pulled over by Texas
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: State Police hysterically claiming she had just given birth on
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: the side of the road. When they got to the hospital,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: medical professionals quickly determined she had not been pregnant. And
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: so with the overview of this documentary is that the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: film uses police bodycam and dash cam footage, hospital interactions,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and interviews with investigators to piece together Parker's devastating web
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: of lies and ensuing police investigation. And what I appreciated
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: about this is that rather than sensationalizing Taylor the murderer,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: the documentary really focused in the second half on the victims,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the victim's family. They interviewed Reagan's mom, her sister, her stepfather,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and they talked about how they navigated this tragedy. And
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: so before we start talking about it, I just wanted
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: to say that a lot of true crime docs get
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: it wrong. I believe this one really got it right
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: in terms of doing right by the victim and you know,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the family and everything like that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So where should we start, amy, I.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Think one interesting part of the documentary was that there
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: were interviews with all the people that you said, but
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: also people that knew Taylor Parker when she was younger,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: and they were the ones who were aware of how dangerous,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: or maybe not so dangerous as they could have ever anticipated,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: but they were aware that she put on fake personalities.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: She would adapt to other people's stories and them her own.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: She was a pathological liar. She was constantly saying there
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: was there were things that were wrong with her. She
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: was saying that she had cancer, that she had a stroke,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: that she had ms. She had a multitude of problems
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: and issues throughout her life. And so these are some
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: of the earlier friends that she had, maybe in middle
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: school through high school, that were speaking to that. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: they knew her very well. They were not in touch anymore.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: So it's interesting to hear their testimonies about her because
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Facebook is a place where they're all watching some of
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: this stuff happen, with the pregnancy photos and things like that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: And the biggest aha was that Taylor Parker couldn't have
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: kids anymore because she had a hysterectomy right right.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: And she had been married.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: What's so bizarre about this whole case is that as
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: we unravel some of the details, it gets to the
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: point where you're like, well, how on earth did she
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: expect this to end. And so many people became aware
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: of the grift because the friends that you mentioned, Mackenzie
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and Abby were the two friends that were interviewed, and
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to me, they gave the best insight into Taylor. Because
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: personality disorders, they're present in childhood, but they really form
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and solidify in early adolescence and early adulthood. And so
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I find it fascinating when before the disorder presents, there's
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: behaviors that we see. And the behaviors that Mackenzie and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Abby talked about were what you mentioned that she had
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: always said that one of them said she stayed sick.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: She was sick all the time. She said she had cancer.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: She said, you had MS and she had a hysterectomy.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So the other people that participated in this Northeast Texas
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Women's House Center and they knew they saw the post,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: but they couldn't break hippo laws. So they were in
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: a really tenuous situation right right.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And the story kind of begins with this, well what
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Taylor always probably wanted, which was this love story of
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: being with someone and having a baby. But this is
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Wade who she got with, and that's where the story
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: really takes flight before that, and we know nothing much
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: about this at all. But she was married twice and
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: she has two kids, of which she does not have
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: custody of. This takes place in Texas when she met
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: this man, Wade. I think they met at a rodeo.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: She said she wanted to they vote for land because
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: she claimed that she had oil money.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, she was an all Heirs, honey.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, according to her, she was an all Airs. But yeah,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: they met at the twenty nineteen rodeo and she was
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: telling Wade and everybody her family was rich and she
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: was an heerding well that her grandmother was a multimillionaire
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: eight million dollars. And basically she approached Wade and was like,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: here's what I can give you. And then all of
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: a sudden, she was buying cars, cattle, side by sides, tractors, which,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: by the way, I know not everyone is going to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: know what those things are, but those things are very
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: large pieces of equipment. And one of the biggest early
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: red flags was she Taylor bought Wade's mom a car
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: and posted it on Facebook.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: Oh she posted that, Okay.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, Facebook is a really integral part of
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: the story because it is there is a lane of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Facebook that is like at tension seeking folks who are like,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: you know, something's wrong with me every five seconds, prayers,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: you know, bo fun of me.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Is, et cetera.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a grift or paradise on Facebook, if
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I'm being honest, and I think that, and then that
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: car the way that she posted on Facebook ended up
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: getting repossessed and so weeks.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right right.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: But to your point is that when she met Wade
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and she told him all this stuff and they got together,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: she really didn't see the kids a lot, Like, they
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: didn't talk a lot about that.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Some of the info that you got Amy, some of
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the other background info tells us what happened.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: It doesn't, haven't. I haven't come across any of that.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: But it was very strange to the family that she
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: didn't have custody and it was noticed. But only after
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: one month of Wade and Taylor dating did she start saying,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: my mother, she's trying to take this money from me.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: She's trying to sabotage my life. She's trying to put
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: a hit out on me, she's trying to kill me.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: We'd be safer if we lived with you, Wade. So
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: she moved in with Wade. She sold all of her stuff.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: She didn't have a lot of stuff to sell, No,
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: she sure didn't. Sure because Wade's mom noticed that Wade's mom.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: There were a couple other people interviewed in this one,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: the mother of Wade, some friends of Wade, a real
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: estate agent, and one of Taylor's ex bosses.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: And Reagan's mom right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, Reagan's mom, Jessica, her sister, Emily, her stepfather, and
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: so they really got a great cross section amazing folks
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: to tell the story. It wasn't just like one person's side,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It was so many people's side.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: It was just so well done, so well done.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: So after she moved in with Wade, this is when
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: things really started to escalate, and escalate quickly with the
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: lies about all the money. I saw this later that
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: she pretended that she had a miscarriage with Wade early on.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I don't remember hearing that in the documentary. You know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure if that's true. But then she
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: said that she was pregnant and.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Literally she did not have a uterus or cervix. It
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: was removed the doctors that removed it confirmed them. They
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: were interviewed, and it was after that that she claimed
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: she remembers she went to one of Wade's family members
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: who was a chiropractor, and she said, I feel in
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: my spirit that I'm pregnant. And I was like, well,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: that'd be the.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: Only place you could feel it, lady, because that's yeah, yeah,
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: that's nothing going on.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: And when she actually had the hysterectomy, apparently there was
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: some trauma that happened where like she had an ectopic pregnancy, yes, yes,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: and she had her tubes tied, okay, right.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And then she came back because she had pain, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: they found it was like, despite having whatever surgery she had,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: she had an ectopic pregnancy, which would have been fatal
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: if they didn't take care of it. And then she
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: also had like a sister or something. It was some
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: sort of a real medical thing, not one that she
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: made up, because she did make up a lot of
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: medical things, which, by the way, you are always going
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to see that in Grifters. There is some form of
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: like a people used to call it Munchausen disorder, but
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: that was just an inaccurate name. Munchausen interestingly enough, it
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: was named after this guy Baron Munchausen who just told
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: tall tales. But it's really called factitious disorder, either impost
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: on self or impost on others. And it's essentially, you know,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: making things up, making yourself sick, or making up medical records,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: doctor shopping, doctor hopping to try to get the diagnoses
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that you want to have. And this particular characteristic the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: reason I'm pointing it out, it's present in a lot
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of scammers.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting, interesting, Okay, it's kind.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: Of a red fly.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Wow, it just it kind of just go. It's just
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: free with with purchase. It just is there with the kid,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: no matter what. That's really interesting.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: I didn't know that. Okay.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Well, on top of that situation, when she did get
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: that a topic pregnancy, she was married at that time,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I'd believe her second husband, and for some reason maybe
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: at the time, she had been under for surgery, but
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: they made a decision without her to have a full hysterectomy.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: The husband made that decision for.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: Baby.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: You just okay, that's the last piece of the puzzle
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: that I did not understand. Yeah, okay, so the husband
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: decided for her. Yes, Oh, and I believe that's correct.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Now I'm leaving, you know, a little bit of elbow
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: room for me being wrong, but that's I know that
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: she said that, and I know that that has been
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: out there and stated in other publications and things like that.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: So that being said, she currently is using I don't
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: know the name that she called it fetal abduction syndrome,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: something like that. I don't know, you might be able
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: to tweak the words, but it's something that has to
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: do with fetal and syndrome and when you try to
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: take someone else's baby. That she is saying that that
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: is what she had because of the trauma that she
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: experienced with her hysterectomy. Well, of course she's going to say,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: saying in from prison, right of course. And she's also
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: saying that being in prison it's like a whole new life.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: She's so glad this happened because now she can try
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: and help people and bring awareness to this syndrome. Yeah, Amy,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: oh no, it's it's so messed up. But anyway, getting
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: back to we're gonna call some.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: Bull sheet on that number one.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Also, I'd like to say I survived O Varing cancer
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: when I was seventeen and I also woke up to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: people telling me that my things were gone, and I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: was seventeen years old, and I've never tried to steal
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: a baby.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: So I'm just saying, well, there you go, and.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I'm joking and I'm laughing of course, but like I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: since you are understand.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Person to be able to speak on that, So thank you, Melissa,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: and I'm so sorry.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Professionally, it's like, I've never you know, gone and try
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: to steal a baby or murder anyone. It's just like
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: people like her, they'll come up with any excuse for
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: why it's not their fault. And we're going to talk
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: about this later in terms of like how personality disorder
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: is different from mental illness because that is the response
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: of someone who is committed to themselves.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: And that's about it. So yes, that's insane. Yeah yeah, okay.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Well, one of the other things that I found out,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: not in this documentary but in other places is that
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: her ex husband contacted Wade and told him that she
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: has had a hysterectomy and she cannot have kids. He
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: contacted him, and there is a current civil lawsuit for
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Reagan's family suing Wade for basically like willful ignorance because
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: of these temps, which is really yeah.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And so to be clear about what Amy's saying is
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: that for people who feel bad for Wade Griffin, everyone
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: told him. Mackenzie and Abby they ended up knowing like
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: a friend of the family. They told Wade's mother, who
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: told Wade that Taylor can't be pregnant, she has had
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a hysterectomy.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: She neglects the children that she.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Does have, which, by the way, for someone with these problems,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: they don't want the child. They don't want to parent,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: they want like to present a child. But then like,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: parenting is the polar opposite of what they're usually looking for,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: because parenting is, you know, it's not glamorous. You know,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: you don't get attention for the day to day ins
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: and outs of tough parenting. She wanted the attention, she
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: wanted the spectacle, she wanted the gender reveal and the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: baby stuff, but she didn't actually want.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: To raise a child, right, right, right.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: But to go back to what I was saying, is
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: that Mackenzie and Abbey told Wade. Wade's mother told Wade.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Corey and Stephanie Ott, who were friends of Wade, told
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Wade they begged him, they pleaded with him, she is
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: not pregnant. She is lying, she is making this up.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And so to your point, there was a lot of
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: wilful ignorance and listen.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: And she was wearing this big pregnancy belly and he
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: never saw her belly. He never asked to see it,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: or if he did, her excuses were, I don't feel
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: comfortable in my body, I'm insecure, and so for literally
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: ten months ten ten never forced his way to see
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: this actual belly.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: People were talking about that too, because there were photos
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: of her that at times she would have this belly
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: and at times she wouldn't. But do you want to
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: know the one really interesting piece, Amy, while I'm thinking
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: of it, if you notice something Taylor Parker in every
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: picture that they show of her, she looks different.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Did you know that, Alissa? I was going to say
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: the same thing. I have been dying to talk to
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: you about this. I can't figure out her face or
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: what she looks like. And that to me is the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: most bizarre part, considering that she isn't the person you
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: think she is. Every single photo, every mugs, everyone, every video.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Everything, it's like not the same person.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: What is that I'm being very mindful of how I
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: say things here because I want to be really clear
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: about something before I move forward. Is that I am
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: not diagnosing Taylor Parker. I am using her case and
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: looking at symptomatology almost like a case study, to say,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: here's the disorders that could fit this. I am not
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: diagnosing her with anything. I just want to be really clear.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: But what I attribute that to is the fact that
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: she had such a distorted sense of self. She had
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: no self esteem, no self awareness, no self cut It
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: was just so distorted that I believe her disconnect with
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: self was so severe that it came across in every
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: single picture of her. And we're not joking. Every jail
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: interview before she was arrested, after she was arrested, even
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: her court appearances, every single time she looks different. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I believe that it is indicative of the disorders that
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: we're talking about, these these personality problems that are lifelong,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: that are fixed, and you know, our bodies and our
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: minds are one.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: And I've never seen this.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Before real, but it was something I've never seen it
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: in person. But it stands to reason that because she
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: feasted on other people's lives, because she didn't have her own.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: It's like her friend's. Mackenzie and Abbey said it was
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: like she feasted on other people's lives to get more
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: information about her grift so she could, like she learned
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: from her boss, like who had like a child loss,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and then she learned from her friend who had a pregnancy,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: and and she just took pieces from these people's lives
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and pasted them together to form her own life, which
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: is inherently indicative of personality disordered kind of characteristics. That's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: what I think that is all about.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, wow, wow.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I am so glad you brought it up because I'm thinking,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: am I just the only one seeing this?
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: Because this is crazy to me.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: It was so pronounced that I'm going to tell you
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: my husband, who is not the most observant fella on
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the planet, you know, straight man, I'm.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Going to be honest.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Their perception, their observational skills are a little bit lacking
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: no offense. I'm sure I don't know how many straight
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: men listen to the show. Maybe there's one. If there's one,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: thank you for being here.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: But you are very perceptive.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: But my husband even said he goes to me. Why
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: does she look different in every picture, and I was like, wow,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: even you noticed it, that's pretty good. Yeah, so it's
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: pretty significantly Even he noticed it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Gosh, that's wild. Okay, well thanks for pointing that out.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: That's nuts.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So should she did five thousand internet searches based on
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: court evidence that they showed a.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Few of them in the documentary.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: In the documentary, and I wrote some of them down
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: because I felt that they were so fascinating, so she
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: would go. So Wade was willfully ignorant and because of that,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I believe these deaths happened, and I believe that they
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: were preventable, but he just wasn't. I'm going to be honest.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like Wade was more interested in the money, yes,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and trying to have a better life. And listen, I'm
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: not judging Wade because there's a piece of it that
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: it's like being whatever you want to call it, in
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a lower socioeconomic status, being a hard working, blue collar person.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I understand that this promise it hooked him in, but
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: she did that on purpose. Yes, so Wade is a
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: victim too, but unfortunately he engaged in behaviors that it
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: muddied those waters a little.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Do you completely agree, and I think that she chose
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: him for a reason. Clearly, he's very ignorant, very dim.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: His reaction not observant, not observant at all, and sent
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: to a lot. For example, when he was told in
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: the interrogation room by the investigator's police officer that there
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: was a murder and that she took the baby, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: so on and so forth, his reaction was, my parents,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I should have listened to my family. And it wasn't
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: at all like she killed somebody like. It was more
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: about I should have listened to my parents. It was
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: a very odd reaction, and I know that that's shock
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: I would imagine, but even still, I haven't really seen
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of his remorse towards the victim themselves. And
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: that was weird, right, That.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Was weird to me too, And I didn't love that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: When he was interviewed, he was very a man of
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: few words. He didn't show a lot of empathy towards
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the victims. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't feel it.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: He just seems like a man of few words and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: maybe not as expressive as one might expect.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: So it took you know, hold of him later and
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: which where he did seem pretty overcome with emotion at
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: the end. And he also said, I think it was
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: like the last thing in the documentary, which was him saying,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: I think she wanted me to tell her I loved her,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: but I never did.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Right, And so then you have to ask yourself the question, well,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: what was the endgame and why did she do all
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: this for a man that she knew didn't love her.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: But that is the reason, because.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: A healthy individual, right, they wouldn't choose a person who
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: wasn't into them. They would say, oh, this person's not
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: into me, let me move on into a better relationship.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: But someone with her characteristics, she also has a lot
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: of antisocial characteristics, meaning she you know, criminality, like at
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the end of the at the end of the episode,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: we learned that, you know, she had thirty aliases. She
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: tried to buy twenty million dollars of real estate, making
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: up people like lawyers, bankers and uncle things like that.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: And I just mentioned the Yeah, here's the little dark
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: humor for you. So she said that you know she
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: had oil money Shell right, So the letters that she
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: wrote to the real estate agent on behalf of the
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Shell oil company or the representative who gives her the
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: oil royalties.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Her name was.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Shelley Shelley, and her lawyer I think his last name
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: was like Lawlesson or something lawless.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: It reminded me of like Arrested Development when he's like,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I'm bob blah blaw.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: You know, it's just you can't.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: That's how someone like her must keep things straight because
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: she can remember her lies because she's making them so
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: easy to remember the name. But yes, and you know,
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: moving on to your point, she had apps that disguised
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: her voice that I mean distorted her voice, that she
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: could make these phone calls. She had burner phones, she
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: had so many n She had a blocking app that
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: where you could block your IP address. I mean, yeah,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: this is where it gets complex. And you think that
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: she's just some you know Texan. I mean if you
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: were to just you know, slap a you know, an
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: empty label on her, you'd just be like, this is
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: just some Texas crazy woman. It's like no, Actually, it's
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: so layered to inplexities of her diabolical behavior and the
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: work that she actually did to pull this all off.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: And Melissa, as we said, this town forty five hundred people.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: No, fifteen hundred, shut up fifteen hundred, fifteen hundred, Yeah, yeah,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: New Boston, Texas fifteen hundred.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very smoh it's waste fifteen I thought. Okay,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: so the doctors saw her Facebook post. Now that's gonna
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: tell you how small this town is. Right if they
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: saw her pregnancy photos, shoot you know what I'm saying.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: And they're like, hippa, we can't say anything.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then people would call, like Wade's family would
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: call and they would say, well, we can't give you information,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: but I would trust your gut.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's right.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: That's what Wade's mom and his aunt and some friends like,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: they all got that information and they called every place
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: that she claimed to go to, and they all had
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the same thing to say to her.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: So it's like everybody knew, but the only person who
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: could do anything about it Wade literally until the police
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: told him she murdered someone and cut her baby out
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: and claimed to be her own it. Literally, it's like
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the light bulb didn't go on, which is just like, oh.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: My gosh, that's insane, not at all.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: She's texting us like she's texting Wade as her mother
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: saying oh horrible, faster her push her down the stairs
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: so you can be free.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: She'll probably kill herself.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Which by the way, she was, and I think that
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: was her projection. So this is what I took a
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: note on, is that when she was pretending to be
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: her mom trying to tell Wade, like I wrote it here,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: she would say to herself like calling herself like a
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: fat bitch, but like pretending it wasn't her that was
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: saying it. And so my belief about that is she
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: was projecting how bad she really fell into these texts.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: It was almost like another way for that personality component
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to come in, if that makes sense.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: It completely makes sense. She even like told on herself
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: by saying like she's she'll kill herself like she's tried
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: to she'll kind of kill herself like she's tried to
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: do before, which we didn't we don't really know about
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: and we don't really know if that's true.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Well, people with these personality styles, let me put it
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: this way, they care too much about themselves to usually
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: do something like that. Like people who are highly narcissistic
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: or have a lot of narcissistic traits and tendencies, they'll
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: kill somebody before they ever take their own life usually
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: for the most part. I mean, there's definitely exceptions to
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: the rule, but again I think that was just that
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: was her ploy for attention. And you know I need
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: to be taken care of. Wade needs to take care
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: of me.
• 32:22
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• 32:26
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• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Even though it's like it's weird because she was doing
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: all the things. She was cooking dinner, she was mowing
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the yard, but it's like that's how she got him
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: because the only thing that he cared about was that
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: like the things that she did, like yes, coming home
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: to a home cook meal and then she would bake
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a pie or whatever, and then he just wouldn't ask
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: any questions. And you know, he was a simple man,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: and she knew use this simple but to spoon feed
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: him to get him to participate in this.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: And she charmed his whole family.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, this whole family immediately where they were like,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: you know, marry this one.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: She's great. She came on with this great personality. Right,
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: one is not sure? Yeah.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And listen, I'm not saying are you saying no,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I just want to be clear. She multiple personality disorder
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: is a so it's basically called dissociative identity disorder.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying she has that.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I believe that she has various personality disorders, but not
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: dissociative identity disorder. No, those people aren't aware. It's not purposeful.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: There's not ego, there's not narcissism. That's that's a whole
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: other thing.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a whole other thing.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: And I get what you're saying, because it's like she
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: is choosing to play this role. Yes, it's a choice
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: to be this type of personality during this moment to
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: get what she wants.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, very antisocial, very I'm gonna use crime and aliases
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: and lies to get my needs met. And I don't
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: care who I have to step over or step on
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: or hurt or kill, because it's only about what she
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: wants at the end of the day.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Now, Melissa, Oh, one thing, by the way, this is
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: happening during COVID, which is a g which is great
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: for her because that's why Wade couldn't go to any
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of the doctor's appointments right for her pregnancy because she's like, Oh,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: you can't come, it's COVID, Okay. So I just want
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: to put that out there. What I found extremely fascinating
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: was there were no priors, She had no record. How
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: is that possible at this point in her life.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Because women who have these personality issues are typically able
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: to get off the hook, because this is where the
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: patriarchy and misogyny actually helps women who are inherently problematic.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Because she looked kind of like, I don't know, like
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: cute girl, you know what I mean.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: Like she was just like a regular gal.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: She looked kind of cute and because she was able
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: to be such a manipulator, people would know, Like her
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: friends would talk about these weren't the first lies she told.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Like she was a liar basically since birth. Her mother
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: said that she's just like always lied. Her friends Mackenzie
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: and Abby said she mimicked people. She would ask girls
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: for nudes to catfish guys when she was like in
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: high school. And so my point being is these behaviors
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: were there, but women who are con artists tend to
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: get away with it for a long time because they're
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: viewed as the fairer sex. Or a woman couldn't possibly
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: do this, or she doesn't look like she could do
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: something like this, and that's how dangerous women maneuver all
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: And on that note, you know she was married two times,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: she didn't have custody of her kids, and we don't
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: know what happened there, but clearly not fit when she
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: gets with Wade, Why and how did things escalate so quickly,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: literally over eleven months, ten months maybe to where she
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: became a photographer on the side to do like family photos.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: And that's how she met the victim, Reagan, who was
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: getting married and she found Taylor, probably through Facebook. Friendly
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: said this is a friendly and expensive this and not
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: a professional photographer.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: What but Taylor's the photographer at Reagan's wedding, which is
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: so gross.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Or your engagement photos right, and befriends. She did this
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: to Reagan, she sought her out to continue that friendship.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: To me, this was a long con Okay in my opinion, yes,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: but to your point, it happened so quickly because manipulated
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: it to do that so that he didn't have time
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: to think.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: So this is what I wrote down, like, how did
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: this happen? Okay? So the first step was my mom's crazy.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: I need to move in with you for protection, okay, Okay.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Then the second thing was I'll give you everything you want.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Oh have dinner ready, I'll mow the lawn, I'll take
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: care of the animals, I'll pull my weight. Number three,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I have money and I will buy your love. And
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: then number four rushing, It doesn't give you time to think.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: With intimate partner violence or domestic violent scenarios, you'll often
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: find these very rush timelines because people a sometimes they're
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: not capable of faking it for long enough, and they
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: want to really get their grift in Wow, but b
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: it's a mechanism to prevent people from thinking about the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: decisions that they're making.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Wow, Wow rushing yep.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, and unfortunately Reagan. You know, Jessica mother
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: really advocated for her in this documentary and she just
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: said that Reagan was a beautiful soul, someone who loved
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: other people and wanted to be there for people.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: Who didn't have others. And Taylor knew that.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: She picked her victim unfortunately, extremely well, which tells me
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: she has skills that are again antisocial in nature of
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: like predators. They can sniff out weaknesses and others. It's
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: like nothing I've ever seen before. It's like a sixth sense.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: They're so scarily good at it. And I think that's
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: something that Taylor understood. In fact, Taylor sought her out,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I think the night before she killed her and they
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: went out to dinner. They spent time together. And to me,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: again that's very indicative of like an antisocial lack of empathy,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: because how so she hung out with Reagan, knew what
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: she was going to do the next day, went home
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: and got a fitfull night of sleep, and then went
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: took the baby and left her child that it's just
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: so it's so predatory. I guess I just want to
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: be really clear about that.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: That makes so much sense, and it is my understanding
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: that she was stalking women and not just she was
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: her so like, and I don't that those answers for
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: me that I got when those were some statements that
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: I discovered that didn't go any further than that. I'd
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: like to learn know a little bit more about how
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: many people was she currently stalking, how many people has
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: she stalked in the past to potentially execute other grips
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: as you say, right, And what a perfect position to
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: put yourself in as a family photographer, because you will
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: agatiate yourself to these people and you make them see
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: it makes them seem like you're so great. And that's
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: why Reagan liked her, because then she's saying, you know, oh,
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: I've got these problems with my husband and I just
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: came out of a divorce or whatever, and now there's
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: a right I mean.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: And that's how she used her femininity to get away
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: with murder too, because again, you're not going to suspect
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: the female photographer from your wedding and your shower, you know,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: And she got people feeling bad for her because with
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: her history of feasting on people's lives, she had these
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: stories to tell that weren't hers. But she knew, she
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: knew what she was doing when she took these stories
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: from people and then fed them to other people, right,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just yeah, it's just really sad.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: It's unfortunate.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: How could this have been stopped? So many questions here
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: because her mother. The understanding that I have is that
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: her mother was living in somewhat a little bit of
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: fear because she would take care of her daughter, Taylor's daughter,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: and she was afraid that Taylor would take the granddaughter
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: away from her if she were to do something, you know,
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: So she's just trying to keep her at bay. Although
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: am I right that her her mother did say did
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: tell somebody that she couldn't have kids?
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Isn't that correct? Didn't the mother?
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: That is also correct? Yes, the mother spoke to people. Yeah,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: she just she wasn't on the documentary they showed a
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: picture of her. But she did also try to help,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Like when whoever called her, was it Connie Griffin, Waite's
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: mom or one of Cory's friends. Someone called her and
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: she said I've been waiting for this call.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Oh, I've been waiting for this call. She said,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: oh yeah, mother said that. Yes. The mother said that, yes.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: And so you know, you've got all these people that know,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: and they're kind of just waiting there, you know, the
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: friends from the past, waiting there to see what she's
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: going to do, because everyone's told Wade, what else can
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: they possibly do? Because how could you anticipate something so gruesome?
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: No one could have anticipated that, could they have? Because
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: she's never displayed murderous traits before? How could they have
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: expected this? Would the mother have?
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: As I was watching it, I saw all the red
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: flags in terms of like stalking, an obsession with another
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: woman's child.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: So I wanted to get back to that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Her friend Mackenzie or Abby, I forget which one was pregnant.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: One of them was pregnant, like so, she and Taylor
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: were friends. They bonded over not being able to have children.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: But then the one got pregnant, and then Taylor became
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: obsessed with her pregnancy. She wanted to go on her
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: tracking app. She wanted to go to her doctor's appointments.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: That's right, she wanted her tracking app log in. Yes,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: and it spooked. It spooked her so bad, which, by
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: the way, this saved her life. I'm telling you right now,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: the only reason this woman was alive to tell this
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: story is because she listened to her gut and said,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I need you out of my life. I'm not talking
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: to you anymore. And then Taylor had to look for
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: a new mark. I fully believe, I will say this
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: with my whole heart, that her friend would have been
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: the victim if she had not cut her off Number one.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Number two, when you see the flags of the pathological lying,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: the planning, the internet searches, how to fake an ultrasound order,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: cheap silicone belly, private infant adoption, new board adoptions, how
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: to file birth certificate for home birth, how to find
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: a birth mother, and then her last search was video
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: of a sea section. She literally watched on YouTube a
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: video of a sea section, knowing that what she was
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: going to do to her friend that she just spent
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: time with that night. And so the stalking, the obsession,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: the pathological lying, I could see that something really bad
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: was coming. Unfortunately, an average person most likely is going
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: to miss those red flags.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they are not seeing this, They're not seeing
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: the Internet searches. They're not seeing that she's stalking this
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: person and laying the foundation. And you know, when things
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: are to the end, you know, nine months she doesn't
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: have the baby. She's telling everybody that she's going to
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: do this appointment, that appointment, and now it's ten months
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: and everyone's going like, what, what's going to happen? Yeah,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: she tells Wade that she's going to go to a
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: different hospital, one that's like in Oklahoma or something, because
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: she can't go to the ones in Texas because they
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: all know she's full of shit, so she can't go there.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: So she says that she's set up like a c
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: section or whatever, an appointment to get to have the baby.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: And that morning she sets fire to the fucking house.
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: To Wade's house.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: He wakes up and he's like, the house is up
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: far and he's like, I had no idea how happy
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: It's like, really, you don't, you know, to the enemy.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: And not only that, but she sent him to sell
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: hogs like four hours away. Mm hmm, So she set
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: his house on fire. She sent him four hours away
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: to sell these hogs. She called in a bomb threat
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: of Mount Pleasant Hospital using one of her like her
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: voice hiding apps because it said it was a male subject,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: and we're like, you know that was Taylor.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: You know that was Taylor. I mean, come on.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: And then she told Wade to leave to go sell
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: the hogs, and then she went killed her friend, took
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the baby and just drove down the road, thinking that
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: people were going to be like, yep.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: You know what this tracks. Yeah, that is so wacky
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: to me. That's so cy I mean it.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Is like, so this whole plan that she had, which
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: was to get this guy have a baby, and she's
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: executing this situation and at the very end, she ends
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: up having this baby, which by the way, does not
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: survive obviously, and neither does Reagan rights which is rest
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: and prestous peace.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: And I will never forget them ever.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: No, literally, I think about Reagan and that baby. I'm
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: not kidding a lot. I don't even really believe in God,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: but I've said prayers. I'm just like, I hope they're
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: at peace because the empathy and the grief that I
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: feel not even knowing them, I'm like to do something
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: like that. You have to really We'll get into this
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and I'll explain what I think is going on. But
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: primarily you have to lack empathy inherently. You couldn't do
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: something like that physically. They said in the at the end,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: there were one hundred and thirteen sharp force injuries to Reagan.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: One hundred and thirteen. That is one hundred and thirteen
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: times that she made choice after choice after choice to
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: continue with this, and that just shows complete lack of
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: empathy none whatsoever.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: The doctor even said that he could not believe the
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: way that she had done that because it I can't
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: even discuss that. I just get you.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Could look at you could watch the documentary. He talks
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: about how she did it and how she did it incorrectly.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: But I agree, we can. People can watch that if
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you want to.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the doctor did say in the documentary that because
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: they all knew that something was going to have to
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: give with Taylor, because her dutate and was pasted, and
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: what's she going to do? So the newborn unit what
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: a out of pink, A code code pink, which basically meant, like,
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: you know, she could come and steal a baby.
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: So they were right.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Because that's what they thought. She's going to try to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: steal a baby. No one ever thought that she would
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: try to kill somebody to obtain a baby, correct, Which
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: that's where I guess personally as a professional, I feel
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of people failed Reagan and her child in
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: the scenario.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, because I think.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: At this point, if you're doing that, there should have
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: been other interventions that needed to happen, and I you know,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I think there could have been more that could have
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: been done.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: So, Hippa, you can't get past that, right, I mean, no,
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: you cannot can't. It's so you know, I kept thinking like,
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: isn't there anything?
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: And no, they could.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: They did everything they could by saying, trust your gut,
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: you're on the right track, follow the breath crumbs, like
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: you know, they did what they could do you And
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's true. Never could have anticipated what
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: was going to happen. So when she's in the car
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: and she has this baby, Melissa, after all of what
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: she did to get to this point, where did she
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: think it was going to end? And how does someone
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: who's that specific in terms of planning this whole ruse
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: fail with an ending?
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Because the ironic thing about people with whether it's antisocial
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: personality disorder or different types of personality disorders, it's not logical,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: It's just impulsive in the moment thinking.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of impulsiveness. And so we can start
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: to talk about this if you want to. It's some
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: of like the characteristics of some of these like cluster
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: be personality disorders.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about the personality disorders. Thank you, okay, okay,
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: let's talk about that a minute.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: So the first thing that I want to say, because
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Amy had asked this question and it was such a
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: good point, what is the difference between personality disorder versus
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: like a mental health disorder? Because when you hear the
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: colloquial term, for example, crazy, this is not somebody who
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: was delusional or not understanding what they were doing.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: She was not psychotic.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: She was in charge, aware and making active decisions. And
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: so personality disorders are technically a type of mental health condition,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: but they differ from mental illness like depression and anxiety
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: in their duration number one, how the person views their
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: symptoms to and treatment number three. So let me explain
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: mental health issues like major depressive disorder, for example, which
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I have. I have major depressive disorder and I have PTSD.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: They can occur at any age fluctuate and be episodic,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: but personality disorders the big differences. They are rigid, lifelong
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: patterns that typically develop in late adolescents or early adulthood.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: As I had mentioned, now, this is the key thing
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: people with mental health issues usually recognize is that their
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: thoughts or feelings are causing distress. But individuals with personality
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: disorders often see their behaviors as normal or a necessary
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: part of who they are, attributing their problems to external sources.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: So when Taylor said that she has this like alien
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: abduction syndrome or whatever she tried to say she has,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: she's trying to blame something that's clearly not her when
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: this is all her. She ruined many families, generations. The
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: ripple effect goes on, but she's in jail saying, well,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: this is why I have trauma and this is why
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: this happened.
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: And no, that's that's absolutely not so.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: The mental health conditions affect how you feel or act,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: but a personality disorder fundamentally distorts a person's sense of self,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: how they relate to others in the world. And I
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: know that was a lot, but that does not make sense.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: That's the difference.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: It does yeah, I had no idea how serious personality
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: disorders are. And well, to me, it almost seems like
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: they're worse than mental illness because like, and I know
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: that you're gonna say, no, that's not necessarily sure or whatever,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: but I'm just in my opinion right now, they seem
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: worse because like, when I see the term or the
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: title the category mental illness, that seems really intense, and
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: then I see personality disorder that seems less intense. So
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: that's why I was like, why aren't we putting that
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: under mental illness? Because mental illness is, you know, it
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: should be the umbrella that encapsulates all of the issues
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: that we have going on because it's mental and if
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: we're ill on some level, why wouldn't that be under
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: that category. But I understand what you're saying that these
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: are very separate, and I why aren't people talking about
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: this more often? Because it's maybe you're like, actually, they
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: do a lot in my life, and as a matter
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: of fact, it's quite obvious.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: No, but no, I mean it's so common for people
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: to not really this is something probably only a clinician
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: would really know. These are not things that the average
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: person is going to understand, Like, I went to school
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: for years to understand to learn about this stuff. Then
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I worked on it in private practice in my career
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: and all of that. So it's okay to not Like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: when you look at a person, you know, a personality disorder,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: mental health issues, they're invisible A lot of times you
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: can't see it on the outside, and so it does.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: It leads to confusion, it leads to misunderstanding. But the
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: one thing about personality disorders is that they're less treatable,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: but only because when you're struggling with a personality disorder,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: there has to be two things present. I believe that
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: anyone can change. I really truly believe it. I've seen
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: people change, I've seen miraculous things happen. But you have
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: to have two things, and one is awareness and the
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: other is motivation, and those are the two things that
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: people with personality disorders most often don't have. However, I
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: don't want to paint all of the personality disorders with
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: the same brush, because we're talking about so there's cluster A,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: there's cluster B, and there's cluster C. Now cluster A
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: is otter eccentric, and under that falls paranoid. Schizoid and schizotypal.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: So those are personality disorders, which is differentiated from schizophrenia,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: which is a delusional disorder under mental.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Illness Wow yeah wow.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: And they're yeah and they and they differ, which again
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: I don't we don't have to.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: They do differ, but we don't have time to go
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: into that.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: But cluster B is where a lot of the so
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: cluster B is dramatic, emotional or erratic, and so under
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: cluster B we have antisocial personality disorder, which is characterized
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: by disregard for the rights of others, impulsivity, and a
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: lack of remorse and so antisocial this is where if
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: you hear the term sociopathy or psychopathy, this is kind
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: of usually what those broad umbrella terms talk about is
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: antisocial personality disorder. So as children, you're gonna see a
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: blatant disregard of rules, maybe some conduct issues, getting in
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: trouble with the law, you know, disregard for authority, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: lack of remorse, things like that. And you also this
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: is where you see the dark triad of traits in
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: terms of like setting fires and like abusing animals and
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: things like that that would fall under antisocial borderline personality
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: disorder involves mood swings on stable relationships, if fear of abandonment,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: and identity disturbances. But people with borderline personality disorder generally
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: are not aggressive. They may self harm. That happens a
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: lot with borderline personality disorder, but that's not typical right
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: for people in that category. Histrionic, it's defined by a
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: constant need for attention, shallow emotions, and a highly suggestible
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: or theatrical behavior. And then the last one is narcissistic,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: which involves grandiosity and excessive need for admiration and lack
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: of empathy for others. Okay, I know that was a
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: lot I believe she has. By the way, comorbidity is
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: very common when you have one personality disorder, you can
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: experience others within the same cluster or different clusters, And
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, she meets a lot of the criteria
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: for a couple of these. In my opinion, Now there's
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: cluster C, which is anxious or fearful, and those are
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: like obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which differs from an obsessive
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: compulsive disorder, which is It's all a lot, and it
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: is very confusing, but the point of what I'm saying,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: it's very common for people to exhibit traits from multiple
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: disorders across multiple clusters.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: If that makes sense.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: It does does she span I mean, in your opinion,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: does she span ABC or is she just mostly in B.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I think she falls in BE for the most part.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: But you know, there's a certain level of delusional thinking
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: in terms of like reckless or impulsive in terms of
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: what we talked about, where it's like, well, there was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: no plan there, Like you knew you weren't going to
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: have a baby, so what were you like? I think
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: she was just so used to lying and getting away
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: with it that she wasn't accustomed to running into like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: a closed road for her, you know what I mean.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: She wasn't accustomed to consequences or having truth get.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: In the way.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: And so for me, it was a lot of things
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: that led to this, but a lot of very complex things.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: But yeah, that would have to be my thought.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: I think she really has some very antisocial, criminal, narcissistic
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: attention seeking.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: All personality disorders be treated with medication, no.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Not with medication, so they're hard to treat because they're
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: deeply ingrained. How Ever, there are therapies like CBT cognitive
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: behavioral therapy, and it's something called DBT dialectical behavior therapy
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: that are proven to be effective for people with personality disorders. However,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: again you have to be aware and you have to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: want to change. And the cluster bees of all the clusters,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: with the exception of borderline personality disorder, I'm going to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: pluck that out for a minute. They're typically not interested
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: in doing anything different. It's everybody else that's the problem,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: it's not them. But treatment can be highly effective. Now,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: there are some studies that suggest that people with like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: an antisocial personality disorder, that talk therapy only makes them
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: more savvy. They learn how to manipulate, they learn what
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: to say to manipulate, especially if they come across a
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: practitioner who isn't savvy enough to identify what's going on.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: So the point is, yes, they can be treated. And
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: I hope because I I know there's people listening to
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: this that have personality disorders, and I want to be
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: really really mindful of Like, people with personality disorders are
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: not psychos, they're not psychopaths. Right, we have some individuals
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: who happen to be those things, and also happen to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: have some of these personality disorders. But this is not common.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I guess I just want everyone to hear the absolutely
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: absolutely okay. I mean, and guys, we all have our stuff.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, you know what I mean. I
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: got my stuff.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: We all have. I got two hands of stuff, girl.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I got a bushelves, I got a bushelp,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: I got a hog farm full of it. But I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: do want to just mention a couple of things. I
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: know we'll probably have to wrap in a moment with
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: some of the things that I discovered outside of the documentary. Yes, Tom,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: she's not paying child support. In the past, she was
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: offering fifty thousand dollars to surrogates.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, which she doesn't have fifty dollars, So no, she
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: sure doesn't.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: That's wildcrift in prison. This is an interesting thing. She
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: before she was moved to death row. I believe she
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: was like with you know, the general population. She caused
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: so much trouble in a prison that they had to
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: move her because she was causing so much. Do you
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: know how hard it would be for a prisoner to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: cause so much trouble inside of a prison that they
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: would actually have to move you. I mean, that's what's wild.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: So she was asking she had like an inmate, a cellmate,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: somebody who she was convincing them that they did what
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: she did. She was having them write a confessional letter.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: She had other people try. She was trying to get
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: other people to write a confessional letter that they did
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: this crime that she did. Okay, I'm just gonna leave
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: that there.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: God.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: She wrote a letter to the FBI saying like, I
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: you know, I am really good about what I do.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: I can help you.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: And they were like, okay, so the narcissism and that
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I'm sure do we say what I'm talking about, the
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: narcissism to believe that the FBI could learn from you, bitch?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: Oh oh that's interesting. How you okay?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: They were like no, thanks. And the diagnosis that during
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: the court hearing they had like I want to say,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: three or four different diagnoses done on her defense, prosecution, whatever,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: And interestingly enough, they said that she wasn't mentally ill,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: she does have personality disorder.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Oh good, I'm glad that I know what I'm there,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: you go, I know I want to know that. They
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: said that, yes, I know, he didn't.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: And then they also had a neurologist look at her
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: and they did like an MRI of her brain much
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: to like what you said. They said that she has
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: frontal lobe dysfunction, which.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: Is very common with people with antisocial personality disorder and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: That is very very common.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: Lastly, we didn't talk about how Wade's coworkers or like
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: his boss boss and his wife were really invested in
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: this couple and really believed him. And she had her
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: fake pregnancy belly, she somehow was able to make it
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: move to make it look like the baby was kicking.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: So that person was completely believing Taylor and was like
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: very much in Wade's ear, saying like you got to
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: take care of her. You go, that's your baby, you
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: know all this stuff, So I just want to try
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: that's her plan. By the way, did she get is
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: that like some sort of electronic like movement thing or
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: how did she even do that?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: I don't here. That's what I'm going to tell you.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: People with these issues, if they put that time and
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: effort into something real, they could cure cancer. But instead
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: they want to fool people, rob people, builk people, you know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: whatever it is that they're looking to do. They will
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: put all their time, resources, brain power and effort into
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: that and they'll get it done because that they're motivated
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: to do right.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, And if she had that level of motivation towards
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: getting better, she could anything as possible. But she she doesn't,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: because that's ridiculous to think that you're having inmates write
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: letters like girl, the jig is up, You're on death row.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: You've been found guilty. There's no one else that could have,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: would have or is so to me?
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: It just displays again this like narcissism, ego and lack
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: of understanding about herself others in the world.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: My last thing is that just so everybody knows she
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: has exhausted all the appeals. Oh good, and so it
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: will continue with the death sentence. There's no there's the.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: Thing, Amy, I'm gonna be honest.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: I am not usually a proponent of the death sentence
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: For me, I feel tricky.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: That's not her us to decide. However, this woman is
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: a menace to society. It's proof in jail right that
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: she's still doing the same old Shitah. And this is
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: a very dangerous person that I am grateful she will
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: not be able to hurt, well, anyone on the outside,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: I'd be concerned for people on the inside if I'm
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: being honesty, if she thinks she can get something from them.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: But I think that this is a case where, you know,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: for Reagan and for that child.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: She needs to go away forever.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I hate to say that, but that's why
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: this case is so icky, because it makes you feel
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: it's just so bad.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: It's so bad, it's so ugly.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: But I really hope that through us talking about it today,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: people have gotten a better understanding of like, you know,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: because for me too, this is about right taking the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: stigma away from like mental health issues or you know,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: And you know, I love it.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: That's that's why I just I get so happy and
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: so excited about your explanation about all this. And I'm
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: the perfect person to talk to about it because I'm
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: a narcissist, No, because I because I'm so it takes
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: me a little while to understand things, and so I
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: feel like I can ask the right questions over and
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: over again in order to get a real understanding for myself.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: And then therefore, you know, those out there listening are
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: probably like, yeah, Amy, we got it. The first time
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: she explained it, we didn't need to say. But I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: feel like it just it helps, you know, you really,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: you can really put the layers down and explain it.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: I just this was we could talk about it for
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: another hour, you know, we could, but listen and maybe
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: we'll need to do and maybe and maybe we could
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: do a separate, a whole separate podcast where you do
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: talk about like the personality disorders in general and mental
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: illness in general, just like a you know, psychology one
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: oh one would be really interesting.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: But well, if y'all want to hear that, let me know.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to do whatever people want to hear.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: But Amy, I really appreciate your voice in this too,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: because you got all that other information and I just
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: appreciate you very much, Number one, everything you brought to this.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Number two, And you do represent the average American who
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: like is a good person and doesn't see how someone
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: who seemingly is a good person could do something like this, right,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: And so I think for me, it's just about like
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: helping to give people answers, also helping people to understand
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: red flags and keep themselves safe because there are other
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: tailors out there, and I guess What I just want
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: to say is to wrap this up, is if your
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: gut is telling you something is wrong, please listen to it.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: You don't necessarily need to put your finger on it.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: You don't need to name it, you don't need to
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: have like a litany of like backed up reason.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: It's just I believe your God.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Always to ears way, go the other way, because if
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: you're a very nice person and your receptive, predators will
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: be looking for you because they want that person that
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: they can and persuade little by little if you're ignoring
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: their bad behaviors and you know, and you're letting them
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: squeak in and you're letting this fall.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: By the way, oh, they didn't really mean that. They didn't.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: Surely they couldn't.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: Oh you know, I'm just gonna I'm a bright light
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: to them.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: And also, by the way, predators use something called habituation,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: which is like they step their toe over the line
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: over and over to get you used to it, and
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: then they step it over more. Get used to that,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: and then they step it over more and.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: You get used to that. Wow.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: See yeah, that's I'm just trying to let's keep ourselves safe, y'all.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Say from the tailors of the world, Amy, thank you
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: so much. This was actually, you know, it was tough content, but.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: I you know, I did I did my job, which
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: is showing up and just you know, asking the questions.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad that we did this. And and thank you.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: Thanks for your insight and your intelligence and all the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: work that you've done in your life to get us
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: to this point and understand this stuff so well.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Thanks to our listeners, yes.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for all the Darlingbishes who support
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: us and love us. And so you know what I
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: would say is, please check both of us out, check
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: me out at your bish therapist, check me out on Patreon,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: patreon dot com, backslash your bish therapist, and please give
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Amy and I five star reviews if you'd be so inclined,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: and you haven't already. The world is harsh, and you
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: know it really makes a difference. And thank you all
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: for those that have already done that.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Thanks you guys. You can find me anywhere listener to
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: guest drama Darling and my patreon is patreon dot COM's
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: last drama Darling. Okay, okay, all right, thank you all.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Bye listen Bye, disclaimer. Posts are not intended to diagnose,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: treat or provide medical advice. Your bish Therapist is for
• 1:11:52
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• 1:11:59
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• 1:12:04
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• 1:12:12
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• 1:12:15
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• 1:12:18
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• 1:12:22
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• 1:12:25
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