Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1190: Finding Wellness in Outdoor Sports with Jeffery Swayze

Transcript

Ep. 1190: Finding Wellness in Outdoor Sports with Jeffery Swayze · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: your listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk with adventures from around the globe to give you the inspiration you need to get started in the outdoors or keep moving if you're already there.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Now here's your host, Kurt Lindville.
0:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, happy Wednesday to you.
0:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope your day is fantastic.
0:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe it's already March the 11th.
0:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess we say that as time flows by.
0:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It just seems like it gets faster and faster and faster.
0:33
[SPEAKER_03]: But Nid March is sometimes spring skiing and Colorado.
0:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it has the best snow that we've had all year.
0:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it's the beginning of mud season.
0:45
[SPEAKER_03]: We are drying out early here.
0:47
[SPEAKER_03]: People are already mountain biking at Hartman Rocks, and usually it's still buried in snow and mud at this time of the year, so man, early spring, I'm looking forward to getting out myself on the mountain bike and on the motorcycle, but it's kind of hard for me to shift gears.
1:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I was laughing the other day because I was preparing my motorcycle for motorcycle season which is coming up.
1:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to replace the clutch cable and of course do all the standard maintenance stuff.
1:17
[SPEAKER_03]: But the same day while I was working on the motorcycle, I pulled my skis off the wall and I remounted my ski binding so that my new ski boots would fit.
1:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was preparing my skis, get this.
1:31
[SPEAKER_03]: where the first day of skis season for me.
1:34
[SPEAKER_03]: That is.
1:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason is because of course I went to Kilimanjaro and the snow conditions weren't great this year and I thought, you know what, I'm just going to go to Kilimanjaro and focus on that.
1:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll worry about skiing when I get back.
1:47
[SPEAKER_03]: and then I came back from a Kilimanjaro, and it's no conditions we're still not great and anyway, long story short, my skis season started, the same day that my motorcycle season started, and that has never happened before.
2:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really curious what you do during this springtime.
2:07
[SPEAKER_03]: What are the kinds about door sports that spring calls you to?
2:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's midday fishing, maybe it's starting to take some hikes, maybe it's some other things, but you transition away from your wintertime activities, and it's not quite summer yet, so what do you do on the shoulder season?
2:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot of fun to be head out there.
2:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was listening to another show just today, matter of fact, and the host of that show started down the list, said, okay, if you want to support the show, then go to Patreon.
2:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and I want you to subscribe and please while you're there, give us a review, give us five stars.
2:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and make sure that you comment and oh, make sure that
2:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You see where I'm headed?
2:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It went on and on and on and on and I thought, huh?
2:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I say one thing or maybe another on some episodes, but I just don't get into those constant reminders to do everything for me so that my show can get there.
3:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope you don't see it that way.
3:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I certainly don't see it that way.
3:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I often say the number one thing that you can do to support our show is to share it with a friend.
3:19
[SPEAKER_03]: If there's an episode, you think will be helpful to someone else.
3:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Please pass it along.
3:24
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big one for me.
3:25
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would love to see more comments.
3:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason is because it helps us to make the show better.
3:32
[SPEAKER_03]: But it also is a platform where listeners can interact with each other.
3:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Another place where you can interact is on our Discord server, and I have to refresh the link from time to time so that people can join that Discord server, but it's just a place where you can text each other and share ideas, and people have been asking questions about, you know, if you're going to do this outdoor thing, where would you do it, or what kind of gear would you recommend?
3:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would like to see that grow as great for the Adventure Sports podcast family to be able to visit with each other.
4:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to put the Discord link, the fresh one, whatever it is today.
4:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to put that in the show notes so you can join our Discord server.
4:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Today's guest has spent a lifetime helping other people get out into the outdoors and to enjoy the outdoors safely in addition to just helping people to understand the little things you might not know if you're not accustomed to being out in the woods or out on the river or out on the lake or out in the snow in the winter time.
4:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has a lifetime of doing this stuff and man I felt just a kindred spirit with him.
4:41
[SPEAKER_03]: and really, really enjoyed meeting Jeffrey Swazzy.
4:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's enough of me talking.
4:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's dive into the episode.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, friends.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited about this episode.
4:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I have Jeff Swazzy with us.
4:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He is an outdoor nature advocate.
4:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I can tell just by the brief conversation we just had.
5:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he's a man after my own heart.
5:03
[SPEAKER_03]: He knows what a positive difference in countering nature can have.
5:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And he has been a guide for years and years and years.
5:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Still does guiding.
5:13
[SPEAKER_03]: He's also a mental health and wellness counselor.
5:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So he understands.
5:18
[SPEAKER_03]: how positive the impact can be that nature can provide.
5:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to talk about things like mountaineering, rock and ice, guiding, fly fishing, guiding, I mean, easy outdoorsmen, in New Hampshire, Jeff, welcome to the program.
5:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot for having me.
5:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And after listening to the podcast for about a year, I'm just really happy to be talking to you.
5:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You're kind of living my dream job, Jeff.
5:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell people what you just told me about your current arrangement for guiding.
5:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a licensed new hamster fishing and outdoor recreation guide, which is pretty all encompassing.
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I used to be a rock ice and mountaineering guide, but I don't do the technical rock and ice climbing anymore like I used to.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I do is I work through a local hotel and I teach people how to fly fish.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: teach people how to travel safely in the mountains.
6:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I take them snowshoeing, we may do some winter tracking, so really it's a great way to incorporate my love of the outdoors and teaching outdoor skills and engaging people with adventure maybe for the first time.
6:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great arrangement to have.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah it sounds fantastic and you were just telling me you don't have a big online presence because you get all the clients you need through your arrangement with this hotel which is also nice so you don't have to sweat the details so to speak.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: What's really cool about that is the clients will go to the hotel and the hotel has they call experiences.
7:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I've traveled to the hotels in the Adirondex and all over and you might go to their website and you see, oh, we have this experience or that experience and
7:13
[SPEAKER_00]: For a lot of these people, we were talking about this earlier, they're from suburban areas, or major metropolitan areas that are within three or four hours of the Mount Washington Valley in New Hampshire, where I live.
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're surrounded by this really big wilderness area with a lot of remote backcountry areas.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That for a lot of people, they just wouldn't think about accessing it on their own.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: and they're staying at a hotel and they might say, oh, it'd be really cool to try snow-shoeing.
7:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm up for that.
7:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I saw somebody fly fishing the other day in the river and that just looked really cool.
7:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I could be in that.
7:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I would like to hike up sugar loaf one, which is a mountain we have here, which is a really popular sort of like moderately steep, easily accessible hike.
8:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't want to do it on my own.
8:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to learn something about hiking, how to dress properly, how to layer moisture management in the winter, things like that.
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I like being with people, especially being with people outside, and I'm passionate about, and beginners to advanced.
8:28
[SPEAKER_03]: that's so fun.
8:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't do much in the way of taking new people into the woods anymore, but I spend a lot of time doing that in my life, and I found it so rewarding, and I could never get bored in nature.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: But when you see someone encountering it for maybe the first time, and their enthusiasm is contagious, you know?
8:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just kind of brings it back to life all over again.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: so contagious and you know in the outdoor space there's a lot of people especially nowadays and there are a lot of experience advanced people and a lot of people who may spend time on social media and they see a type of way to do something and they may think oh in order to do this
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It really helps to sort of diffuse that and say, anybody can do this.
9:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was a beginner once.
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: When I first started fly fishing or rock climbing, I was a total hack.
9:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels hard to ask people how to do something.
9:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you do and you bring them into it, like you said, when you see their enthusiasm, it really is contagious.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could bottle that, it will be awesome.
9:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you'd be a billionaire selling that stuff.
9:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's amazing.
9:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's so crazy about it is that nature doesn't have to be expensive.
9:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a matter of going out into nature and encountering it.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just such a beautiful opportunity for people.
10:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And many people just don't know.
10:05
[SPEAKER_03]: They haven't experienced it yet.
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a, I think that's a really prescient point right now because my local RRI is just minutes away from me.
10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like being able to go there in some days, I'll just go walk around RRI before I'm meeting my wife and town for dinner just to do something.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But the cost of entry in outdoor sports for a lot of people, if they think they need a certain amount of approval, or certain types of equipment, it's prohibitive.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: but the one good thing about guiding or having a resource behind you is having equipment or introducing people to safe ways to dress and equip themselves for not a lot of money.
10:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's tell people, trail running is not very expensive.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean in some sense, it's kind of like the original outdoor adventure sport.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like at some point, like we're all running outdoors.
11:05
[SPEAKER_03]: seems like that is true.
11:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Very much so.
11:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And you and I are of a similar age Jeff, I remember the world before Gore-Tex.
11:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We do.
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You probably remember when Patagonia, which was then maybe great Pacific Ironworks, came out with their H2No Range Acute, and I was like, you know, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost like bulletproof armored vest of a rain jacket that my father bought me for my 18th birthday, which was part of his gift to me, which set off a lot of life of adventure was a 30 day Colorado or bound course.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So he bought me this rain jacket and he made me stand outside in the backyard and he turned the hose on and he just hose me down and it wasn't Gore-Tex, it wasn't breathable.
11:58
[SPEAKER_00]: but somehow I survived 30 days in Colorado without being well ventilated.
12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're right.
12:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I remember the world before Gore-Tex and these dried meals.
12:10
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the modern outdoor equipment really is nice.
12:13
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, very convenient.
12:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's comforting.
12:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It can enhance your safety, but I just have to go back to my roots and say, you can do it without it, you know.
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's true.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: When I wish I had my very first Kelty external frame pack.
12:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I would line it up next to sort of like, it almost be like the evolution of man.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like the evolution of my backpacks.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It was as massive like Kelty frame pack.
12:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I traveled everywhere with it.
12:49
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad and I, we brought it to Africa.
12:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't believe,
12:53
[SPEAKER_00]: With the exception of being on Killy, I lug that thing around everywhere in Africa and then on Killy having to watch the Porter is carried on their head I have this kind of really weird feeling about oh, this is this is what they're doing This is what they want to be doing But just there is this awkward thing I felt I can't really quite describe it It just felt like this very interesting relationship at the time, but by the end of the trip
13:21
[SPEAKER_00]: The Chaga tribesmen who were guiding us on this guide were like we love carrying your frame pack You know you may or may not know that I just got back from kill you a week ago I do I just had that same experience.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard I listened to part of the last podcast and I just I meant to say that in the beginning and forgot But congrats on What in your mind was a successful trip
13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, congratulations to you too.
13:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an amazing life experience.
13:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say that amazing life experience.
13:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
13:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm still trying to wrap around it.
13:58
[SPEAKER_03]: But let's let's get back to New Hampshire.
14:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned that adventure fuels the connection to nature.
14:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, we're the Adventure Sports podcast, but it's all about nature, but a lot of people do adventure without nature, but what do you mean by that that adventure fuels the connection to nature?
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's this real deep hunger inside of people to connect to something bigger than themselves and when you're adventuring in nature, the wilderness, whether it's trail running, hiking, bird-watching.
14:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter what the activity is.
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the chatter inside of your head goes quiet.
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're really mindfully focused.
14:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Even you might not have the language to name it that way, but that's what's happening.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like on a physiological level, your cortisol level is dropping, your literally physiologically connecting with the very place that you come from, like which is wild in nature.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that when we're moving our bodies through the wilderness,
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: it's something that really taps into something very primitive, something that we're meant to do, I think, born to do.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that demand of focus is, I'm sure you know, because I've heard you talk about mountain biking, you know, that demand of focus is
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you enter this flow zone and it fuels a deeper connection to nature because you really become part of it.
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not necessarily looking at it through a bubble saying, oh, it's out there.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We almost always refer to nature as it's something that's out there because we're in here.
15:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But what if nature, the wilderness, the mountains, whatever environment you live and what if that was really our natural home?
15:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it is, but there's a transition that people go through as they start encountering nature.
16:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems foreign at first, but at some point, it almost feels more like home than your house.
16:12
[SPEAKER_03]: It is for me.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's well said, and I totally relate to that.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: The point where a lot of times when I come back from a trip, I can't unpack, I can't really
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't unpack, and almost feels like I should be ready for the next trip, like immediately.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like I've never left.
16:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get back to this because it was a way that I really liked to do it.
16:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But I used to have a ready pack that had everything in it that I needed, except for food and clothes.
16:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I was ready to go, I could just grab it, get some food, get a change of clothes, and I was out the door.
16:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And I never had to worry about where everything was getting anything organized and you need to go all in the pack and all that kind of stuff.
16:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really encourage people to think about it that way.
17:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe don't unpack.
17:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you have a pack that's ready to go.
17:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but is that just invites you?
17:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really cool.
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You should say that because one of the things that, you know, I do it in the first day of the wilderness skills 101 is how to build the right day pack for your environment.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, what should you put in it?
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people may want to carry an end reach.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people may not need to.
17:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people may not know how to use a paper mapping compass.
17:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we could work on that.
17:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people may need lots of heavy layers for the winter.
17:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're always going to need water.
17:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You're always going to need some snacks.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: What you put in your go bag is really going to be different for your environment.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's cool that you mentioned that because having a go bag, I think, is, it just makes it so much easier.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you think about, you're like, oh, this isn't hard.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: All I have to do is like, I got an hour free.
18:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I can just grab my pack and throw it into the vehicle and go.
18:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I can feel your passion for this, and it's a passion that we share, but people that haven't experienced it, why would you say it's worthwhile?
18:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what is the why that might get someone out the door who's never thought about going into the woods and facing the unknown, so to speak.
18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a really good question.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the first reason has to do with something you set at the end there, which is fear of the unknown.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, as I'm looking around my house now, a lot of things in my house are designed for my comfort, which is great.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of things in the wilderness and the mountains on the water are not intentionally designed for our comfort.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we encounter an unknown environment, I think that's really good for us because I think our brains lay down a lot of rich footage.
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: There isn't a lot of firsts that we wouldn't encounter in life at some point unless we got outside of our comfort zone.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that.
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think encountering the fear of the unknown,
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: does have a corresponding value to other areas of life.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So being outside demands a little bit of hardiness and grip.
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Resilience is the outcome, like having being a more resilient person, but developing that hardiness means that, well, I'm gonna get bitten by bugs, but I can do a little bit about that.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna be uncomfortable.
19:35
[SPEAKER_00]: There's gonna be wind rain, cold, snow,
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: and it forces us to adapt and I often find that the most kind, flexible and gritty people are people who approach unknowns, whether it's having a conversation with a stranger in public, which I do every day because I just think that's a good thing to do because it's things.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: but I think the rewards and the benefits are lifelong.
20:15
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a very big mental reward, but there's also a really good, you'll find that your body is capable of doing really beautiful things when you get out in the outdoors and you move your body and it may feel difficult.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, you come back from doing something, even if it's a two mile walk, maybe even ever done that before.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe getting out of the car,
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: and just finding the trailhead is an achievement for some people, but they're gonna come back and feel like a badass.
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is going to help them feel like they have more agency in everyday life.
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So that may be a very longer answer to your question.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm thinking on my feet as I go along, I'm trying to put myself in the position of a newbie, but I don't know, I'm still excited.
21:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I go fishing, I still run down to the bank.
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know I shouldn't, because I know I'm scaring a lot of the fish.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I just can't help myself.
21:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Years ago, I used to take middle school kids into the wilderness for a week-long experience.
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, cool.
21:21
[SPEAKER_03]: and uh... these inner city kids some of them had been in nature a little bit some of them never had you know they'd never been out of the concrete jungle
21:30
[SPEAKER_03]: and we would take them up into the mountains.
21:33
[SPEAKER_03]: They're just kind of fascinating to watch how that impacted different people in different ways.
21:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of these kids just absolutely fell in love with it and they said, oh, this is what I was made for and you could see them just take off, just connecting with nature and wanting more and more and more of that experience.
21:52
[SPEAKER_03]: We had other kids, though, that being removed from all of the distractions that they had built around themselves for survival in the inner city, right?
22:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Being removed from that and placed into an environment that was so foreign.
22:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even just not having the stereo to play the music through use, too.
22:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that music had a purpose for them.
22:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't just entertainment.
22:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of them would come unglued.
22:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I watch kids really have some strong cognitive dissonant crises maybe might be one label for it you know because they're encountering something so brand new but I still think it pulled them out of something to experience something and hopefully the end result of that is is a better awareness self-awareness awareness of the world.
22:37
[SPEAKER_03]: but it was amazing.
22:38
[SPEAKER_03]: It really was amazing and I would encourage anybody who maybe hasn't been in nature.
22:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen to what Jeff is saying.
22:45
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something there for everybody and it can be life-altering.
22:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It really can.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I couldn't agree more watching somebody, you know, I've been in really difficult positions with people who
22:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, from their estimation, you know, rock climbing for the first time or being in a canoe in a river for the first time or spending their first night outside without any type of light or as you mention noise.
23:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Of people's, you're right, it's almost as if they had a kind of
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They delaminate it a little bit and bring their brains went offline for a little bit.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then trying to sort of bring them back to a more manageable level, reducing that anxiety is also fun to watch.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of adventure athletes have utilized whether they know or not, just good breath work to calm themselves down and other things.
23:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, watching somebody sort of for lack of a better term just like absolutely freak out because they're in this a new environment There's no noise or least there's no noise that they're used to right yeah
23:58
[SPEAKER_03]: the same way I feel if I have to take a subway somewhere in a city that's a good point Jeff you know I've I've told this story before but I'm going to share it just because I found it's just such an amazing experience we took a group of about a dozen teenagers on a backpacking trip we went into the Colorado wilderness we're up at about 11,000 feet
24:17
[SPEAKER_03]: and it gets dark we're camping with these precipitous peaks all around us and these teenagers there were city kids there were nervous they're out of their element so what are teenagers do when they're nervous they joke and they laugh and they they you know the carry on and make a lot of noise and i mean it was not a major experience at that point so i i finally just said okay everybody let's separate into small groups walk away from can't just a little bit sit down and just try to be quiet
24:45
[SPEAKER_03]: for like five minutes.
24:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't say a word.
24:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course it was so uncomfortable that there is a lot of giggles and laughs and you know it was hard for them but here's the crazy thing.
24:56
[SPEAKER_03]: The reward was that the crags above us at a distance were starting to freeze, and as they froze, it triggered rock slides.
25:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the kids were sitting under the open sky looking at the stars listening to boulders come charging down these craggy slopes and crashing into the valley.
25:17
[SPEAKER_03]: and their eyes get so wide open and they suddenly connect with something.
25:22
[SPEAKER_03]: They realize this is something special.
25:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was special.
25:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it impacted me.
25:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm still talking about it, you know, 30 years later, right?
25:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So as a mental health and wellness counselor, why do those experiences make a difference?
25:43
[SPEAKER_03]: How do they help us?
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the first way they help us is they teach our brains that any anxiety we have either in that moment or otherwise is kind of a liar.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that when we're feeling anxious or maybe we're
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We're experiencing something in our life where we might define it as a mental health crisis, although I think crisis is a term that gets thrown around too easily now.
26:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, because we often people talk about, I have anxiety.
26:19
[SPEAKER_00]: rather than I'm feeling anxious.
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, those may sound the same, but there's a different way our brain responds, one is, oh, this is just temporary inhuman.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The other is, oh, I have something.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that when we're doing something that increases dopamine,
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Endorphins naturally.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That is one of the best ways to suppress overcome and develop management for to sort of everyday stress and anxiety.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just it just builds really good
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: coping mechanisms for other areas of life because it just it turns down the amplitude like a lot of times we might be over-analyzing something or problem that isn't really a problem because there's so much messaging I think often where there's this culture of harm in everyday life where it always feel like oh
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You go somewhere and you always feel like I could be very easily harmed, I shouldn't do this or I shouldn't eat that or I shouldn't say this or I shouldn't read that or this is going to be dangerous and I think that our our brains will create a narrative around something we feel and I might not even be accurate.
27:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
27:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know getting outside and getting robustly involved in in adventure activities or just being in nature.
27:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that being outside and the mindset we apply to it will make it adventure.
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this humans were meant to walk long distances and a lot of people don't have to do this now, but hunt down prey and avoid things that might want to incorporate us into the food chain as well.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, you know, whether that be a tick or a mosquito or, you know, a rushing rapid it, like just learning how to manage those things, I think is a really great way to improve mental health and wellness because you're earning your dopamine, you're, you know, you're getting out there and sure, there's some risks involved.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, bad knees, broken bones, things like that, but all those things I think can be mitigated.
28:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's beautiful, you know, I was lucky enough to over here a mountain biking coach talking to one of the students when on a ride one day and he was talking about experiencing near crippling anxiety.
28:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And he said, it's like you're going up rungs of a ladder and the higher you go, the more dangerous it gets and the more wrapped around the axle you get and the harder it is to see clearly and and he just encouraged Terry, he said, find the thing that allows you to come back down
29:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Instead of worrying about the ladder, worrying about the fall, worrying about where, you know, what kind of things will help you to step down or run or two on that ladder?
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what nature does for me.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I, I like that.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's such a good idea.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I, I, I, I may incorporate that and use that, just be sure.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: That analogy is so good because if somebody is feeling anxious, whether it's an about an event or I do a lot of public speaking, which I actually like, I like the excitement that comes with it.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, when you talk about anxiety, there's a different way, language too.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Excitement versus anxiety.
29:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of times we confuse, we confuse them both.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I often teach people to practice applause.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, at some point, whether you're facing something difficult or insurmountable,
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have a thought or sensation.
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter which comes first.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But allowing that thought or sensation to exist at the same time that you do what you have to do is teaching a brain that you're not going to stop doing what you need to do just because you're feeling a certain way, like... Yeah.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You can experience this, but I, man, I love that analogy of like getting back down to a lower wrong and like intervening at the earliest possible level, being like, all right.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, for a lot of people that I take outside for the first time, they have a lot of judgments about things.
30:50
[SPEAKER_00]: where I've heard this is going to be really hard or really afraid of this or what if this happens you know people will pile up the what ifs like their seat cushions before you know like what if I get bit by this what if this happens what if that happens well what if it all works out
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, those things might happen, but those what ifs is about sort of realizing that judgments are just judgments about that experience.
31:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all they are.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not good or bad.
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They just are.
31:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell people, it's not the anxiety that's bothering you.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your judgment.
31:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your assessment of the anxiety.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You bothering you.
31:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a little bit meta, let me go meta just a little bit more.
31:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't just what the coach told the mountain biking student that I loved.
31:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It was that we were in an environment where it was comfortable to have that conversation because we were on mountain bikes in nature.
31:52
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something about a walk.
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: a hike being outside people begin to share they begin to explore a little bit of wow what really happened last week what was that about you know because they're giving themselves space I just feel like there's something so powerful about nature as a place to heal
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, and I feel like if they could just sort of encapsulate that, that would be like the best advertisement for you as an adventure based counselor Just saying this is the way you said that was was perfect
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The things that people share around a campfire or on a mountain bike or on the side of a cliff or an hour into a hike, I've done multi-day trips with people I've never met before until the day I arrived and that's a whole other experience and leaving those trips as friends for life.
32:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure was really altering so you really write about this space because
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I can have a student at the college I work at, sit in my office, and we're not going to get anywhere.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just not, because I think it's a really intimidating environment for a lot of people.
33:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I say, hey, there's a trail right out back.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if you're really up for it, and this is where being a licensed guide Dovetails nicely with my job.
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I could put that person in a canoe.
33:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I can say, hey, if you're up for a window for trail run, or there's some birds I've never heard before outside, and here's some binoculars.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just go, you know,
33:33
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever.
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the students are really up for it and then they want to plan day long hikes like day learnings with groups.
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the session.
33:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's exciting.
33:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It is really so cool.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Jeff, you have guided rock and ice climbing and mountaineering and flyfishing and I'm sure a plethora of other things.
33:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So just for fun, if I name the activity, can you give us a few bullet points on why this is a good activity for some people what people could expect out of it and what you love about it?
34:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You bet.
34:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, let's start.
34:10
[SPEAKER_03]: We've already talked quite a lot about just hiking.
34:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We touched on fly fishing, but let's just start with fly fishing.
34:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is that an activity that calls to people or can have benefits?
34:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's water, so, you know, any time you're in on or around water, it's just a relaxing environment.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, it's very calming.
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the, the active fly fishing.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I do traditional fishing as well, and I guide conventional fishermen, but the learning curve to fly casting is pretty steep.
34:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not easy to learn how to fly cast.
34:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the process of learning how to flycast, you're really learning this very mindful movement.
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's, you mentioned transition points in, you know, being outside and in fly fishing, versus transition point when you go from totally sucking with your cast to getting it.
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And like laying down a good cast.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels so good, like in your body, it registers on a physiological level when you nail a good cast.
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're learning how to cast, you're going to bring the rod up, accelerate quickly, then come to a rapid stop.
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: the line on a fly rod is very heavy so it's meant to load the rod and then you move the rod forward and it shoots that line out and you so there's a kind of a 10 to 2 motion of the fly rod that's very mindful and very repetitive and people get lost in that.
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, when we're teaching casting and we get on the water, they're like, I just totally forgot that we're efficient.
35:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's one way that fly fishing could, you know, really attract certain people.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very mindful exercise.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could do it alone.
36:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you just described about casting, line casting.
36:08
[SPEAKER_03]: If you fight it, you won't win.
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's maybe the point.
36:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to be so patient with yourself.
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And you have to find the rhythm and go with what the line requires.
36:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Not what you want it to do.
36:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But what the line requires and it's magical.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is magical when you put a fly rod on somebody's hand at first, they're looking at this, most fly rods are eight and a half to nine feet long, they just like this big wand in their hand, they don't really, it feels awkward, but then once they pick up that rhythm.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: once that clicks, and it's different for everybody, both fly casting, you pretty much have to, you're gonna progress from like, disbelief to anger, to self-loading, to everything.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you get it, and you lay that line down on the water without a lot of splash, Matt, as you said, it's really magical.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so cool.
37:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that was a very good explanation on flyfishing.
37:16
[SPEAKER_03]: What about ice climbing?
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, ice climbing is like your on water is just that the mediums not moving as fast as a river is.
37:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's really dynamic environment.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of physical focus and vigor that's involved.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's low angle ice climbing that even people could do on a top rope and they can do it safely.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is very cathartic.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, with ice climbing, it first people are going to take their ice tools, which you talk about progression of gear.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: When I first started ice climbing, we had straight shafted ice tools.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody used a sling for the rest.
38:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, now all ice tools are leechless, and
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where equipment has really made a difference in entry level.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But ice climbing, it just feels good, man, when you stick that ice pick and you could feel the ice when it's solid.
38:17
[SPEAKER_00]: When you drive an ice tool home and it's a really good placement, you just feel it.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you could hang off that thing.
38:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people do, you know, but it feels so good to do that and it
38:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very important.
38:37
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people hide from nature in the winter time and where we live, Gunnison, I looked this up, from fall to spring, Gunnison, Colorado is the coldest average temperature in the nation.
38:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously?
38:50
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah except for Alaska so except for Alaska from fall to spring if you do year around then there's some other some other cities towns that they battle for first place but the point is that we have like the coldest winters around
39:08
[SPEAKER_03]: and when people move to our valley they move here because it's a beautiful natural place so many opportunities we call it the base camp of the rockies for a reason you can do anything from here but i i just tell them find your winter sport and do it because if you hide in your house all winter long you're gonna leave this valley you're gonna move on you know it's too punishing that's great advice
39:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, winters here could be right now.
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in a slight uptick in temperatures, but last week we were negative 14, negative 15 at night, out windshield.
39:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, those are the days I remember being out on Mount Washington or maybe being called out for a rescue.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's extreme winter temperatures, but on average, if you, you can move here and not like winter,
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Engaging winter and liking winter at some point is going to become mandatory to sort of to to be here So ice climbing is a great winter sport.
40:09
[SPEAKER_03]: What are some others that you would recommend for people so that they can get out and feel good about life?
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Easiest way to get outside in the winter.
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's snow showing.
40:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not expensive
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You can access the back country pretty easily.
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go on trail if you're not comfortable being in the back country.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: They're Nordic centers that have snowshoeing trails in the center, so you can be outside in the winter, moving your body.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So snowshoeing, I think, is a great way to access the back country in the winter, because you can tweak your kit.
40:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to layer.
40:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to think about moisture management.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: hydration requirements.
40:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great way to really sort of up your winter game and figuring out, okay.
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I can be in the back country, I can get outside and winter in the snow shoes and it's really really physical and the more off trail you go, the more physical it becomes.
41:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So it can be as easy as you want or it can be as difficult as you want.
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You can pull a sled behind you with three or five days
41:16
[SPEAKER_00]: do some winter camping or hot tent camping and access backcountry on snowshoeing but really for somebody who really wants to experience winter and they don't want to shell out for a ski pass or even a day lift ticket snowshoeing is the way to go.
41:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Just I couldn't recommend it enough.
41:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Very cool.
41:41
[SPEAKER_03]: you mentioned moisture management, and that's like top rule number one in the winter time.
41:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So explain what you mean by that.
41:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of thinking on how people run into heat and cold emergencies in the outdoors, in the winter, you often hear people talk about frostbite.
42:03
[SPEAKER_00]: and really it's about moisture management because if you overheat and you don't stay dry and then you happen to stop if it's a windy day all that sweat is now going to dry on your skin and you're going to get cold really quickly and the early stages of hypothermia are really interesting because they almost render you unable to recognize what's happening.
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it?
42:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You're almost like, you know, you get the mumbles, the stumbles, the fumbles.
42:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just think that you're sort of like, yeah, I'm really cold, but
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: you know that's all sort of moisture management and you know the winter another part of that is your thirst response is diminished because it's winter so oftentimes people are in drinking a lot you know and getting back to snowshoeing if you're staying dry I mean you can overheat but you can regulate your body by wearing layers I always carry a dry base layer top in my pack with me in the winter it's mandatory
43:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're next to skin base layer, it gets totally soaked, going uphill, I just assumed dump that and put on a dry layer.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So moisture management, you know, for my years of living up here and being on official rescue teams and also going out after people in my own friend group, I can tell you that usually, a lot of it has come down to not one thing, but hypothermia has always played a role in that.
43:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I prefer me as, well, people ask what makes nature dangerous and I really think it is weather more than anything else.
43:43
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to worry about the wild animals, you don't have to worry about, you know, the weather is what gets you.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, that's a perfect description because when my sons were younger and I would take them out and do all these crazy things, people would say, well aren't you worried about X, Y, and Z?
43:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say, well, there's some things that
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: don't merit concern like wild animals outside like bears or coyotes or you know large megafauna things that we have here don't merit concern the small things I mean I kind of feel like whoever said don't sweat the small stuff never went outside in the mountain right ever because now ticks merit concern yeah
44:27
[SPEAKER_00]: for me, I'm very, very proactive about preventing that for my kids.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Water in the winter, ice being on ice like ice fishing or in canoes, those merit some concern.
44:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, next sport.
44:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Rock climbing.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: great way to move your body.
44:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that sounds over-simplified, but even if you're just bouldering, going to a rock and trying to move your body over a rock close to ground where if you came off, you wouldn't get hurt kind of thinking through the moves and moving your body.
45:05
[SPEAKER_00]: When you see somebody who's a really good rock climber, it's almost like water running uphill.
45:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, there's this mountain involved.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seems effortless.
45:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great way of confronting the unknown because everybody has an innate fear of heights.
45:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people just learn to manage that more than others.
45:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, it's a really a three-season sport and in some parts of the country, it's a four-season sport.
45:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many ways to learn safely, so many knowledgeable and certified guides now.
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not an instantaneous adrenaline hit which would be something like, you know, like maybe like,
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: surfing or jumping out of a plane but there's this long adrenaline burn required of the focus that just and the confidence level you get from climbing you know yeah in high school seeing a maybe a little younger than a high school my dad had a book on the coffee table called mountains and
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I just saw all these people in these cool places doing these things, and I wanted to do them too, and one of them was mountaineering and climbing is kind of like a tall gangly skinny kid.
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't excel at football, didn't play team sports, but when I went rock climbing, I discovered my body was capable of something really beautiful and cool,
46:31
[SPEAKER_00]: and like his own, my body was perfectly suited to moving uphill in the mountains.
46:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And once I discovered that, it just gave me so much more confidence in other areas of life.
46:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think rock climbing, which is entry level prices, cheaper now, and it's ever had been.
46:48
[SPEAKER_00]: The movement is, it's just, it feels, just feels really good.
46:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I interviewed a fellow who is a bodybuilder, and he was really good at lifting heavy things.
47:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And then one of his friends took him to a climbing gym and said, I did try this.
47:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And he realized he had muscles that didn't know what to do.
47:10
[SPEAKER_03]: He quit bodybuilding and became a rock climber because he said, I wanted useful muscles.
47:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to have a body that did things, and he just loved it for that reason.
47:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the ethos of climbing is changed where, you know, when I was climbing in this climbing community, sort of, you know, during the 90s, there was a lot of emphasis on not just climbing, but, you know, the type of route you were doing.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it a traditional route where you placed your own gear?
47:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it a bolted route?
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, a lot of those ethical arguments and subcultures are always going to happen, but in terms of like the pure joy of the sport, I don't think that matters.
47:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get over that, because you're going to fall when you're raw climb, you're going to fall.
47:56
[SPEAKER_00]: at some point.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to either take a leader fall, if you're comfortable leading, or you're going to fall when you're being belayed by somebody.
48:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's on a multi-page climb, you're going to fall.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And once that happens, you're going to feel so much better about things.
48:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, okay, that's it.
48:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Robestratch, great harnesses.
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the gear is really when done safely, I think rock climbing is
48:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, for sure, yeah, much safer than driving a car.
48:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, what about mountaineering?
48:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Getting to the top of big things.
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely a real feeling of accomplishment on being on top of a mountain and standing there, knowing exactly what it took to get from, wherever you started, trailhead, card, to the top and every, but it's hard to describe that feeling.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just such a feeling of accomplishment.
48:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes for me it's been a feeling of,
48:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I just really got away with one, and that's never going to happen again.
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's happened to me a couple of times, but getting up is that Vester said, like, you're only halfway done, getting down, getting up.
49:11
[SPEAKER_00]: is optional getting down as mandatory and later in my climbing career I really try to remember that because I had a really bad climbing accident and I made a full recovery but it really impacted my ability to get out there right away.
49:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, mountaineering can encompass so many things.
49:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Glacier travel, traveling on snow safely, there's a whole idea you become.
49:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I think tuned in to Avalanche Awareness being a cutely aware of your environment is really important in mountaineering.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Conditions change.
49:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think learning how to adapt, scrub a plan if you need to, you're really not in charge of the weather.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're in charge of your own actions and decisions.
49:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that alone is a great place to be.
50:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I distinctly remember during my outdoor bound course we climbed Mount Elbert, and the feeling was absolutely incredible.
50:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the way down, the feeling was like doubly incredible because I had no idea about the way storms move through Colorado as quickly as they do.
50:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
50:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And experiencing lightning, and
50:25
[SPEAKER_00]: weather hazards, but yeah, I think the sense of accomplishment, but more than that knowing exactly what you had to do, what it took, the planning, the preparation, the stages of grief you may have gone through, getting up, the people you were with.
50:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't recommend it enough.
50:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It just as an aside, you mentioned Delbert.
50:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I climbed it in the first half of December, and the temperatures were single digit.
50:53
[SPEAKER_03]: The wind was so strong.
50:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It was the highest wind I'd ever experienced up to that point in my life.
51:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of my buddy and I, some of it didn't came back down how to glorious time and had so many stories to share.
51:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And then another climbing friend of ours said, well, you've still not done a winter descent.
51:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause it was the first half of December instead of after the solstice.
51:15
[SPEAKER_03]: it was it was truly winter winter climbing but that has its own reward.
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I hear you're saying the one-sided of presidential range traverse which is here in New Hampshire and the white mountains.
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The Prezutriverses we call it.
51:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of a test peaks or a benchmark of living here and being here, of basically climbing up and then traversing all the mountains in the presidential range in a day, or it doesn't even have to be in a day, but usually the benchmark is under 24 hours.
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And the hardest time I've ever had,
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: is in November.
51:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually Thanksgiving.
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We were in snowdrives up to our waist on a mountain called geod before we got to the bond cliffs and anybody listening to this from New Hampshire or or who has done the Prezure diverse in the Pemi loophole will know specifically about that area that I'm talking about.
52:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the middle of winter in a Prezure diverse, I've also had the best conditions.
52:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the other day I went out for a hike and it was 19 degrees, light and variable winds.
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: The snow was like walking up to cork.
52:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Micro spikes and crampons were just gripping perfectly where no obstacles in the trail because the trail had been so packed down.
52:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not going through that sort of like endless vertical rise and fall in the summer of like a lot of Yeah, yeah, I was like you're stepping up on a rock then you're stepping back down It's just perfect winter hiking conditions and I got back down to the truck and I like that was just Easy and kind and fast and Tomorrow may not be that way You never know you never know
53:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I love, like I said earlier, your passion for the outdoors, and I love the way that you introduce other people to do it.
53:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I know you're not trying to push your guiding service, but if people wanted to catch up with you, how could they do that?
53:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They could find me at, I think, my phone numbers probably in the show notes, text me, fish boy guiding.
53:23
[SPEAKER_00]: My email is Jeffrey Swazee One at gmail.com.
53:32
[SPEAKER_00]: so they can find me there, or if they're in the area they can, you know, book a guided, guided experience through the Mount Washington hotel where I work.
53:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
53:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you wrap us up with an anecdote a story about just something that happened in nature.
53:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You thought was just truly special that you're so glad you experienced.
53:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say being on Kilimanjaro with my father, and if you would ask me, you know, prior to August of this year, he was 92, he died, so not a tragedy, but lived a great full adventurous life, really inspired a life of adventure for me.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there are just so many, I could say, well, I solo this route, or I, you know, did a remote canoe experience in the backcountry, but I think being on Kilimanjaro with my dad, because when I heard your sort of quick, just, you know, back from Kilie, talking about it, it kind of like made me go back through my trip.
54:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we did the Morango route.
54:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We went from the Morango gate.
54:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We stayed and huts along the way, but I remember being the Kibo hut, which is the last hut before you summit the next day.
54:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's 15 in change.
54:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
54:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And just kind of like being there with my dad, I think he didn't get to summit because he didn't feel good the next day.
54:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So I summited, but just being on the summit of Kilimanjaro
55:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And just kind of thinking, our member is a kid.
55:08
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad wanted to go to Africa because he gave me the book, The Snow is the Kilimanjaro.
55:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just remember that some quote about some at breaking through the clouds and at being there before him, big and wide and unbelievably white in the sun,
55:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just something merged then and, you know, that was in 1990 that we did killy.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a while.
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was just feels like it was yesterday.
55:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's probably the biggest anecdote that comes to mind.
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: The second is just never stop moving, you know, just being outside in nature, engaging and ventures.
55:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always something that you can do outside.
55:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not making any more wilderness.
55:56
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
55:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not making any more, and I think it's really important that people have free accessible public wilderness to go outside and recreate them.
56:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
56:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have noted as I watch outdoors people here in the valley who are aging, they can go do things remarkable at ages you wouldn't expect as long as they never quit moving.
56:20
[SPEAKER_03]: But the day you quit moving is the day that you start losing the ability to do it.
56:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and a lot of it is just your, the brain doesn't stay pliable.
56:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It, like, just a refusal to stop moving and getting outside.
56:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I often think they're like, I don't know.
56:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I, you know, sort of like, trade my 60-to-year-old mind for my 32-year-old body.
56:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
56:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:49
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the best way I can put it, because just, I miss part of that,
56:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If you keep moving, I don't think you're going to notice a lot of decline at all, really.
56:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of the beautiful things about nature and getting outside is that something you can do for a lifetime.
57:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, absolutely.
57:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Well thanks Jeff.
57:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I really appreciate you to conversation.
57:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the way that you advocate for people getting out there and doing the thing.
57:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's encouraging to me.
57:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that what you are promoting
57:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I appreciate it and I appreciate you being able to talk about your Killie trip and having me on your podcast, that was a lot of fun for me.
57:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, good.
57:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
57:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone, you know, I say this every show, get out there and have some fun.
57:37
[SPEAKER_03]: But boy, Jeff probably gave us 57 or 100 reasons that we should be getting out there and having some fun.
57:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, until the next show, make sure that you do get out there and have some fun.