Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #275: Alleyne Francique-Francique Sport and Education

Transcript

#275: Alleyne Francique-Francique Sport and Education · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and Field world Juvenile tuned in to our humble servant
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  Mike Cunningham for another extraordinary message for Guild
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  Athletics connections. All right, welcome back.
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  Here we go on the Gil Athletics Connections podcast.
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  So humbled to be your host, Mike Cunningham, National Business
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  Development manager here for Gil Athletics.
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  And today, you know, I've talked about this a couple of times
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  where, you know, I've been in this industry, the track and
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  field for well, it feels like forever, right?
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  All through high school coaching for 10 years and now getting
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  closer to 20 years of Gil, which is nuts.
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  So I know a lot of people and I love a lot of people.
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  And so a lot, some of the guests that we have here I've known for
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  20, sometimes 30 years and it's awesome.
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  They're good friends and I still get to learn a lot about them.
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  And then some guest, I have no clue who they are, meaning I
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  don't have a, a relationship with them.
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  And that's exciting as well. And really excited that that's
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  the case today because I love learning about new people, new
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  things about people. And, and I just know this one's
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  going to be, I'm just going to predict this one's going to be a
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  banger. I just know this is going to be
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  great from the pre interview and stuff.
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  I just think this is going to be awesome.
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  So help me welcome from the Franzique Sports and Education.
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  Help me welcome the wise, the wonderful Mr. Eileen Franzique.
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  Mr. Franzique, how are you, Sir? Good, good.
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  How are you? It's great.
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  Great for me to be on your podcast.
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  It's my first podcast. So I'm I'm excited.
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  I'm, I'm delighted to just have people understand who I am and
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  to kind of put myself all day and let the people follow,
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  follow along with my journey. Oh, it's your your first
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  podcast. I'll be gentle, but I do want to
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  publicly now that we're actually recording here, I do want to say
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  thank you. I know you are, you know, you're
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  not a social media person. You're not, you know, this is
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  your first podcast. This is a little bit out of your
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  comfort zone here. So I appreciate just personally,
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  I just appreciate you the trust and coming on and doing this.
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  I think it's, I think hopefully it'll be really good for you to
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  talk about some stories and people and mentors that maybe
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  you haven't thought about lately.
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  And then also for our listeners and viewers out there to, to be
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  able to learn another side of a coach and coaching life and, and
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  how you, you conduct your business and, and your life.
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  So again, just grateful for the for the trust sitting down with
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  us today. Yeah, no problem.
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  But my my first question actually has nothing to do with
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  any of that. It's your shirt.
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  Isn't that you have if you're watching on YouTube, isn't that
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  like the old school? What is that?
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  I I know that from somewhere. What is that?
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  It's the only, only Tiger. It's like a ASICS 1, the high
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  end, the high end of the ASICS brand.
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  Yeah, yeah, OK. I knew I'd seen it somewhere and
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  I was like, that's some like that's some deep level track.
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  Like we don't see that very much.
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  I love that. That's cool.
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  Very cool, very cool. All right, Mr. Eileen, let's
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  jump into your journey here in track and field and and coaching
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  track and field. My favorite question right off
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  the bat is, you know, where does track and field start for you?
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  Well, I want to stay started back in Grenada in in primary
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  school. And because if you, if you know
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  a little of Grenada, track and field is one of the like, the
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  most like sport. Like a lot of people do it.
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  We do it from, from a young age. And if we have track and field,
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  we have soccer, we have cricket. So I grew up and running track
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  in, in primary school. And my mom back then, she never
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  wanted me to to do it because I was so skinny.
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  She just thought I would have run in so much would I would
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  break my leg or something like that.
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  So. That's so Mom.
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  I love that. So yeah, so I want to say
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  started back in from high school and, you know, just keep it
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  going from there. So, so let's paint the picture
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  because, you know, the vast majority of our audience grew up
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  in America. So we know, you know, elementary
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  school, middle school, high school, we know we watch
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  football on the weekends and things like that.
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  Help us paint the picture here in Granada.
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  It seems like track is a big part of the culture with on with
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  soccer and cricket. You mentioned, are you, if
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  you're doing that in in primary school, is this so is this club
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  that you're doing? Is this like a neighborhood talk
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  to? How do how do people get
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  involved in track in Granada and, and, and what are like, you
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  know, we grow up maybe with heroes like, you know, for, for
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  my age, Carl Lewis and Leroy Burrell and those guys.
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  Were there people that you looked up to like, oh, I want to
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  be the next so and so from Granada?
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  Yes, well, I'm growing up in the village because in Grenada we
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  have villages. So in my village we had guys
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  that went to one of the the big high school and which is the
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  high school that I went to is recalled the Saint Andrews and
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  again secondary school or we say SAS.
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  So a lot of them ran. And you know, back then I didn't
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  have any TV. So what we do, we have the the
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  games, the car, we call it the Intercar.
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  So that means early high school come together and have a
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  competition. So when we have the Intercar,
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  it's like big, it's big on the island.
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  So I also listen it on the radio.
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  And we are one of the guys from my from my village.
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  He went to the high school, I went to SAS and every time he
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  went to the games I saw I was listening on the radio to see
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  what position he plays, how he do.
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  And so we all get around the radio just listening the
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  commentary and you know, because cricket was was my first love.
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  I like, I love cricket. I could play it.
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  I was pretty good at it and cricket was my first love.
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  I never really got involved into a track on until later on.
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  But yeah, I was listening to and his name was John Wayne.
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  Is is is. We used to call him Saxa.
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  So I said, man, I want to be like him.
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  And we have guys like Louis, Stan Nelson, those guys.
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  He's from another village, but I know villages we are close by.
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  So I said I want to be like these guys.
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  So that's how I get really involved into track and field.
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  What? What's the state is it at this
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  time when you're in, in the high school side of the coaching, you
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  know, you, you obviously are way more educated today about what
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  coaching, what I hesitate to sometimes say good coaching
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  because you, you know, there's a lots of variables that play into
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  that. But was when you're in the high
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  school side and you're being coached, where the coaches, did
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  they even have access to coaching education or was it
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  like we're just a bunch of cricket players doing track?
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  What was the kind of status of that?
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  No, I don't. I don't.
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  They probably had some some knowledge about coaching or they
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  probably did track while growing up because you know, we have
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  physical education as one of the subjects in in high school.
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  So we do physical education. There's a period for it,
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  physical education and then so back then you would have times
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  when there is cricket and times when there is soccer and times
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  there when there is foreign. So I think and even in high
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  school, because we have this technical intercal that when you
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  get selected to represent your high school and to get selected
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  to go to the intercar is a big deal because it's it's it's,
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  it's very massive. Is that kind of similar?
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  I've never been, but I hear the culture of like the Jamaica High
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  School. OK.
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  So it's like the whole lot, everybody, this is the big deal.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is it. And we because we have different
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  parishes, so every parish have high schools.
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  So we have the, the high schools from the, the capital because I
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  was from the countryside, OK. So it, it was like a rivalry.
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  So my high school used to be a rivalry with the, with GBSS and
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  from the, the capital, St. George's and I was from Saint
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  Andrews. So it was it, it's fun.
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  But then you get selected because in high school there is,
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  we call it houses. So we had, so I was the yellow
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  house, which was Lane Lane house.
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  So we had yellow, blue-green and red.
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  So we had four houses. So the houses will compete among
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  themselves. And who scored the most points
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  would be the winner. And then so you get selected
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  based on how you do in your sport.
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  So if you're in the top three in your event, you might get
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  selected, you know? So that's how, that's how it is,
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  yeah. And I know you, you know, life
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  is about pigeonholing people, right?
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  Just, you know, I always tell people, and I've told you this
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  before we hit record, you know, I don't do any research here.
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  So it's just what I just kind of know from being around, right?
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  I know you as a a really good track coach, but you know, half
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  mile seems to be like, OK, this guy's an 800 meter coach.
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  What event were you? Were you a 800 meter guy or?
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  No, no, I was 11240. Is that right?
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  OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 102 hundred.
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  Well, my first medal that I won in high school is was in the
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  triple jump. Really.
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  Oh, cool. Yeah, the triple jump I.
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  Did wait, wait. So if you're doing triple jump,
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  Mom had to get over the, you know, legs breaking thing
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  because, you know, Yeah, yeah. OK, yeah.
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  Yeah, my first met, I wanted a triple jump and then I expanded
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  to running. I was.
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  I won 102 hundred 400, so yeah. And this may be my Americanism
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  showing through here. Was there, as you're going
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  through high school and you're getting better, finding your
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  events, was there a, is there a desire for those caliber
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  athletes to go to America college or was that like, how,
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  how did that come about? What is that even a culture?
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  Well, to be honest with you, I I never really knew about
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  scholarship and stuff, you know, and I'm going to give you a
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  story when I finish high school. We have one of the coaches from
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  Essex. Coach Smart may soon rest in
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  peace, yeah. Mike Smart.
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  I I did like, yeah. Absolutely.
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  So he came down, he came to Grenada and we had a, we had a
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  track meet and he was looking for talent and I ran and I ran
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  the 400 and the 800 and I ran the four by four.
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  But back then we had no, we had grass tracks, we didn't, we
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  didn't have any, we didn't have any stadiums.
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  So we ran in the grass. So I end up around 47, three
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  barefoot and 1:00. Oh, hold on.
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  Barefoot. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I had no, no spikes, nothing.
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  Oh my. So around 47 three, which is
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  hand time, you know. Yeah.
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  And then 152 in the 800. So I was offered I would offer
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  that a scholarship right there on the spot.
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  But he said, he said, he said he going to give me a free ride.
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  You know, so growing up, growing up in my village, when we say
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  ride, we think in car, we think of somebody giving you a car.
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  So, so I was in a tongue. So I went, I went home, I went
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  up in my village. So I was telling all my friends,
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  I said, man, I was telling them, I said, man, I'm getting a food
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  ride, man, I might end up going to America.
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  I'm getting a food ride. So we had the, we had the, you
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  know, normally we have a block like we will, we sit like after
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  school, everybody hang out. We sit on the block, we sit by
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  the side of the road and we just we just watching cars and we
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  just and we just keep pointing and say, man, we think, I think
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  you'll get this one. I think you're going to get this
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  one knowing I didn't know what food, right, dude, That's not
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  the people's story. Sometimes I think of it and I
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  just laughed to myself. Did you end up going to Essex?
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  Yeah, yeah, I end up. When did you?
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  Realize you were not getting a car.
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  Like did you show up first day you're in his office?
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  Like hi, where's the keys coach? What do I need to?
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  Do here no, when I'm is no later on I kind of figure out, you
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  know, I'm not getting no car when they see a full ride.
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  That means they paid for everything.
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  But but, you know, knowing growing up and not getting
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  exposed, you know, you just, you're just on the island,
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  you're just with your friends and you never really travel and
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  stuff. And when you talk about the
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  ride, you know, we're thinking about cars and stuff.
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  So yeah. You know, that's really
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  interesting. What that's called is jargon,
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  right? Like a, a full scholarship, 100%
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  scholarship. The jargon is a full ride.
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  That's, you know, just how we, we say it, right?
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  That's a really important lesson.
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  And you know, we, we think about that a lot of times here as
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  sales people as well. Like, you know, like we, we, we
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  may say, like one of the things that people say a lot of
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  different is a pit versus a landing system, a pole vault pit
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  or a landing system, right? And we may say it one way or the
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  other. And we got to make sure that how
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  you, the customer is saying it, that we're speaking back into
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  that. So there is no confusion like
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  that. So it's just that's a good
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  lesson about jargon. And, and, and you know, with
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  coaches we're talking to, you know, typically eighteen, 1718
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  year old kids, that's easy to misunderstand, you know, so it's
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  that that's really interesting that that's cracks me up.
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  I've never heard that. Man, I love that you I, I could,
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  I could picture you guys all sitting around hanging out like,
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  oh, look at that car. That's the one.
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  That's the one. And you know, I think of it I
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  used to love. So before we get to Essex, Essex
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  itself, what was there any thought?
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  What thought was there when you're looking at coming to
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  America for colleges? Are you looking for your next
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  educational opportunity? What were you thinking about
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  majoring career? What was coaching at all in in
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  the thought process? No, when when I left Grenada and
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  I went to New Jersey, to be honest with you, I didn't even
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  know. I know there's running.
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  I know I'm going. I'm going to go to junior
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  college to compete and go to classes and come before the
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  school and they pay for everything.
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  All I have to do is just pass my classes and compete.
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  So I didn't, I wasn't thinking beyond that, you know?
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  Yeah, I am my my associate degree.
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  I was doing accounting and, you know, I was doing pretty well,
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  but, you know, balancing the books so that I would miss it by
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  $20. I would miss it by $5.
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  I just couldn't figure out where to put the.
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  That's called not being a very good accountant.
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  You know, I called receivable, I called, you know all the stuff.
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  So I, I switched from, I went from because all the, the
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  classes I was taking, it would come.
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  So I switched from accounting to business administration.
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  So I got my, my associate degree in business administration.
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  But most of my friends because I was in New Jersey, Newark, NJ
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  after my friends was out in Brooklyn.
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  So I will say, OK, after I'm done running, I'm going to just
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  go over in Brooklyn and, and be, be with my friends.
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  But my mom was also in Toronto, so I I was thinking I could
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  always move if if you don't work out, I could always move and go
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  be with my mom. Yeah, that that makes a lot of
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  sense. You know, it still boggles me
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  whether we're talking about, you know, a kid from Granada coming
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  up to the states for college or even a kid from Kansas going to
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  school. You know, we we make 1718 year
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  old kids pick a major when they don't even know what tomorrow
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  is. It's really that's why.
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  And we're learning that, you know, most coaches when they
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  were looking at colleges, it wasn't because I'm going to be a
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  coach. It was because I'm going to be
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  an accountant, a business owner, a teacher or whatever.
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  And then coaching, you know, different ways falls into the to
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  the conversation. Now I'm curious.
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  I've never been to Essex, but I've been to New Jersey lots and
• 17:31
  lots of times. I've never been to Grata, but it
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  sounds like a little bit more tropical down there than what I
• 17:37
  know of in New Jersey. How did you handle that
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  transition? Well, yeah, green ice, tropical,
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  We don't get cold. And I think I came up.
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  I went to New Jersey in 1998. I came up, Kakosma picked me up
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  from the airport. You were a flag out in the night
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  time. So I didn't, you know, get the
• 17:59
  night. So you I didn't see the
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  surrounding until so you go to sleep and you your first time in
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  America, you you can't wait for the morning so you could see
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  that we, you know, even know where SX is.
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  SX is right downtown Newark. OK, downtown Newark.
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  Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  So I couldn't wait to get up the next day to go outside and to
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  look around. So and I woke up and hot shots
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  and T-shirt on and then I went outside and it was cold but the
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  sun was out. And you know, I'm growing up in
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  Grenada when we see the sun, it's supposed to be hot.
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  So I'm looking up in the sky and I was like, but the sun is hot.
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  Why it's cold? So I didn't, I didn't know you
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  have different change for me. Everything was just a shock.
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  Everything was just, you know, everything was just a shock.
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  And I went back inside. I think I didn't go because I
• 18:56
  came in because everybody, I was a freshman and everybody was out
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  like my, my teammates, like they went home.
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  So nobody school, school didn't start it back yet.
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  So yeah. So I stayed inside for probably
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  2 weeks without even going outside until, until my until
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  my, my my roommates came back and they introduced themselves
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  and we all get to know each other and then, you know, they
• 19:25
  start explaining things to me. Yeah, because you had a lot of
• 19:29
  common brotherhood with S 616, right?
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  He had a lot of Jamaican Caribbean, so there.
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  Was Yeah, we had had two friends and Vincent and one from one
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  from Jamaica and myself and and then we had we had ladies that
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  was from the islands as well. Right, right.
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  So assuming that you got choose to actually start running, and
• 19:51
  how did junior college go for you?
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  Junior college was was pretty good.
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  That's at first it was very tough because we didn't even
• 20:02
  know Essex. We didn't have a track right
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  Like so when we trained in the fall, we trained on the
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  basketball flow. So Chris, Matt will mark out if
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  we're running 400 or we're running 800, he would mark it
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  out and put coins. And you know, the 1st, the 1st,
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  I remember the first, the first walk what we had, we had I think
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  what, 818-8800 and we had to run into 210 on the basketball
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  floor. I mean, this was painful.
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  I mean, Jesus, Jesus Christ, thinking about it, no, it hurts.
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  And we had, we had this kind of workout and my body, I wasn't
• 20:45
  used to it. I wasn't used to running and
• 20:48
  going around in circles, you know, So it was, it was tough,
• 20:54
  but the, the guys, they, they talk to me and coach smart kind
• 20:59
  of guide me through. So it was, you know, it, it paid
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  out. It paid out in the end.
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  And this would did you say this was around the 99 two thousand
• 21:09
  season? In 9898. 98.
• 21:13
  Yeah. I, I coached junior College in
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  2001, so this is right before I got a junior college, but that
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  was a, you know, it's tough today too, but that was a tough
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  time in junior college. You know, Barton was the the
• 21:26
  number one at that point for a lot of years.
• 21:28
  But I mean, all the Kansas junior colleges that was, and I
• 21:32
  remember Essex because you guys were always really solid.
• 21:34
  I always had a solid 4 by 4. That's always what I remembered.
• 21:37
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have. Yeah, we have a good 4x4.
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  One thing we one thing we have, we have a good four by.
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  Four. Always.
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  I remember that. But what I could say about
• 21:45
  Essex, it made me, I want to say it made me tough because I think
• 21:51
  I grew up tough. But yeah, when I left there,
• 21:57
  nothing couldn't affect me like I was mentally strong, like the
• 22:02
  mental toughness because even though where you coach junior
• 22:06
  college, so, you know, we don't have anything and we take buses
• 22:10
  to go everywhere and you know, so that just it prepared me for
• 22:17
  the next level so that. Any homesickness?
• 22:24
  Well, when I left Grenada, we had to go from Grenada, we had
• 22:29
  to go to Puerto Rico and then flight to New Jersey.
• 22:34
  So the flight from Grenada to Puerto Rico was about two hours
• 22:37
  and 45 minutes. I cried for the two hours and 45
• 22:40
  minutes like because I didn't know what I was getting into and
• 22:44
  I was living out my friends. I didn't, I was living out my
• 22:48
  friends back. So I was just sad and just just
• 22:52
  crying because even growing up with my friends, we were very
• 22:55
  close because we are always around the same age.
• 22:58
  So everybody kind of, we did everything together.
• 23:01
  So he didn't really, you know, you're going to America, so
• 23:04
  you're excited. But when you get on the plane
• 23:07
  and the plane take off, then he really hit you.
• 23:10
  Reality. Yeah.
• 23:12
  God damn. I'm I'm God, you know, and you
• 23:14
  don't know, you don't thinking, you don't know when you're going
• 23:17
  to see them again. So yeah.
• 23:20
  And even things like food, now you're in Newark, so maybe there
• 23:24
  was some cultural food for you there.
• 23:26
  But yeah, there's a lot of differences.
• 23:29
  But growing up in Grenada, I never eat meat.
• 23:31
  I was more a vegetarian, yeah. So I never eat no meat.
• 23:37
  So and. Is that a was that a you thing
• 23:40
  or is that a culturally in Grenada thing?
• 23:43
  Well, I want to say, OK, growing up, my mom left.
• 23:52
  My mom left when I was pretty young, you know, so she left
• 23:56
  when I think I was about 10 years old.
• 23:58
  She left and migrated to Canada to get a better life for us and
• 24:03
  for ourselves. So I grew up with a lot of older
• 24:09
  guys, you know, and if you call it a lot of guys, that was Rasta
• 24:16
  or we call it Rasta like like Bob Marley, Bob Marley stuff.
• 24:21
  So thank. You for Americanizing that for
• 24:23
  me. Oh, Bob Marley.
• 24:24
  Yeah. So I'm so I spent a lot of time
• 24:28
  with them and they will need, they will need salt and they
• 24:34
  will need no, no meat. So I grew up.
• 24:38
  I grew up in that culture. Yeah, that culture.
• 24:40
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so I kind of follow that
• 24:45
  because you know, you the theory is is more healthy, like you're
• 24:50
  going to live longer. So, so that's the kind of life I
• 24:55
  cannot grow up even. No, no, I I basically eat more,
• 25:00
  more fish and and chicken. Like yeah, I don't eat any pork
• 25:05
  because you know, Rasta, we don't eat no pork.
• 25:07
  So. Got it, Got it.
• 25:08
  Perfect. Yeah, Yeah.
• 25:10
  So where does it take you from Essex?
• 25:13
  Where do we go next? Well in Essex when I left green
• 25:18
  I ran what, 47? Three, grass on grass and Essex,
• 25:23
  I end up running 46 four, yeah, 46, four.
• 25:28
  And I was being recruited by a lot of schools like, you know,
• 25:35
  Ohio State, Oklahoma, South Carolina, a lot of the schools.
• 25:40
  But LSU wasn't recruiting me at the time.
• 25:44
  They were recruiting the girl I was dating and she's from
• 25:49
  Jamaica. Renata.
• 25:50
  And one day the car and I answer the phone.
• 25:56
  And so I asked him. I said, why are you not
• 25:58
  recruiting me? And they asked and they asked
• 26:02
  what time I wrote and stuff. And I told them.
• 26:04
  And then I, you know, then, then they started talking to me.
• 26:07
  So she and I went on a visit together.
• 26:12
  And in, you know, growing up in New Jersey, it's cold and then
• 26:16
  you go to Baton Rouge, it's hot. So the moment I turned on in
• 26:20
  Baton Rouge, I said, yeah, I'm coming.
• 26:25
  So, you know, Cocheni was recruiting me and, you know, I
• 26:30
  went on a visit and we talk and think.
• 26:32
  And when I was leaving, he was taking me back to the airport.
• 26:38
  I told him I want to come. And he was like, a lot of people
• 26:42
  say that, but they never come. I said I'm coming.
• 26:46
  I said I said just so many papers, I'm coming.
• 26:48
  And yeah, I end up signing with LSU.
• 26:51
  Yeah, it's interesting, you know, coming from where you grew
• 26:55
  up in Granada, I'm imagining when you mentioned, you know,
• 26:59
  Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, you know, when a, when a kid who
• 27:04
  grows up in America, when we hear those schools, we
• 27:07
  automatically have like a thought.
• 27:09
  You know, when you said Oklahoma, you know, I think of,
• 27:12
  you know, Bosworth, the football play, it's usually around
• 27:15
  football. You know, we kind of have those
• 27:17
  ideas around that you you probably, I'm assuming you had
• 27:19
  no like emotional tie to like, oh, the LSU football team you
• 27:23
  like. That'd be a great culture to be,
• 27:25
  you know, going to games like you.
• 27:26
  You were more, well, what were your like?
• 27:29
  No environment when I when I went on a visit, my host Lori,
• 27:34
  Lori at the time, Lori Calhoun, he was from Jamaica and I think
• 27:38
  LSU, LSU were playing Tennessee. A game.
• 27:44
  Yeah, so we went to the game and.
• 27:49
  You had never experienced anything like.
• 27:50
  That No, I never, I never played a football game.
• 27:52
  Yeah, football. Game and LSU football game,
• 27:54
  that's a whole different. Ball game.
• 27:56
  So we went to the game. Mind you when I left Grenada the
• 27:59
  population in grade I was about 80,086 thousand when I left
• 28:03
  grenade. Oh, I know where this is going.
• 28:06
  And then I'm in the stadium and they announce, they announce the
• 28:11
  attendance. It was 113,000.
• 28:15
  Your whole country. And I'm.
• 28:18
  Dude. The the moment time they
• 28:19
  announced it, I'm trying to count the people in the stadium.
• 28:23
  I'm standing there, I forget everything about the game and
• 28:26
  I'm trying to count. I was like, there is no way.
• 28:28
  There is no way. There is no way.
• 28:30
  There is nowhere. There is so much people in the
• 28:32
  stadium. That's surreal.
• 28:35
  I mean, that's like eerie a little bit, right?
• 28:37
  Yeah. And I was like, God damn.
• 28:39
  And then but LSU they beat, they beat Tennessee at the time and
• 28:47
  you know, I think Tennessee was ranked and Tennessee was either
• 28:50
  ranked number one or number 21 and they were ranked high.
• 28:53
  So they rushed the field. So I rushed the field because my
• 28:59
  my host rushing the field. So just following along.
• 29:02
  I got to rush the field, so I rushed the field with him and
• 29:06
  what they did I remember like it was tomorrow it, you know, the
• 29:11
  middle of the field, you know, if you look at LSU games, they
• 29:14
  have the eye of the tiger. So he dug his hand in the dirt,
• 29:19
  tried to pull up the eye. So I dug my hand in the dirt,
• 29:23
  tried to everything he do, I tried.
• 29:28
  I was following everything he did.
• 29:30
  I was following everything he did.
• 29:31
  Oh my God. I can just see like, oh, we're
• 29:35
  doing this now. OK, all right, let's go.
• 29:39
  Yeah. So yeah, it was.
• 29:41
  Oh man. What a visit, holy cow.
• 29:43
  Yeah, yeah, it was it was fun because, you know, I went to
• 29:46
  visit because in Essex I'm my teammates went to Ohio State.
• 29:53
  So if I had gone to Ohio State, Buddha, I kept thinking we were
• 29:57
  on three O three or three O 2 in the four by four in Essex.
• 30:01
  So if I had gone to Ohio State, we still have the same 4x4, but
• 30:07
  when I went on the visit there, it was too cold.
• 30:09
  Yeah, yeah. And when I went to Oklahoma, it
• 30:14
  was still too cold, so I only took two.
• 30:17
  I only took three visits. After my third visit, I said,
• 30:20
  this is it. I said I'm not taking any more
• 30:22
  visits. So what years were you at LSU
• 30:24
  that that you ran? What seasons I I.
• 30:27
  Ran 2000 to 2002. OK, because I I coached at
• 30:33
  Mississippi State the O four and O five season.
• 30:35
  So right after you. I I was my last year at
• 30:38
  Mississippi State. We were 3rd or 4th at yeah, 3rd
• 30:41
  or 4th at nationals. You know, three O 3 flat points
• 30:44
  something That's when you guys it was well, Kelly Xavier.
• 30:52
  They came after me, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 30:54
  The O five was the so that that race, that O five race that LSU
• 30:58
  won and set the national record back then is what got me out of
• 31:01
  coaching because I was like, you know, we we ran 3 flat.
• 31:03
  I'm supposed to we're supposed to win.
• 31:05
  If you run 3 flat, you know, that's you know, and we were
• 31:07
  like 3rd or 4th and LSU runs 57. It's like this isn't fun.
• 31:11
  I was like, I'm just not not having fun.
• 31:13
  I'm out. I'm out.
• 31:14
  You set the. You were part of setting the
• 31:15
  stage for that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:17
  I think even now, God, when I was in LSU, we were in Indus, we
• 31:23
  were in three or four. Yeah, and, and that used to be
• 31:26
  fast, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's crazy what's going on
• 31:29
  today. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it still
• 31:30
  is fast. I shouldn't diminish that, but
• 31:32
  it's just crazy what, you know, I got out at the right time.
• 31:35
  You know, it's nuts what what you guys are doing now in the
• 31:38
  coaching. So you're at LSU and, you know,
• 31:40
  I remember this time. This was, you know, much like I
• 31:44
  talked about in the junior college time, that was kind of
• 31:46
  Barton's time. They were winning, you know,
• 31:48
  most of the titles, men and women.
• 31:49
  This was when LSU was winning a lot of the titles, you know of
• 31:53
  or there's SEC or NCAA's an amazing staff.
• 31:57
  You know, they've always had amazing staff there, but amazing
• 32:00
  staff, things like that. How What did you end up majoring
• 32:04
  in and is at this point is coaching at all in your idea of
• 32:10
  a career? In LSU, I end up doing technical
• 32:14
  sales and with three minors, with three minors and but no,
• 32:21
  there was no nothing to do with any coaching.
• 32:26
  My first year in LSU as a junior, I made it to the we had
• 32:34
  the world championship in Winnipeg in Canada and I went, I
• 32:40
  went to the to the the championship representing
• 32:44
  Grenada and I made the finals. That was in Yeah, I made the
• 32:50
  final. I think that was in 2001.
• 32:52
  Yeah, I made the finals and people, you make the finals and
• 33:00
  then coach only was there with me and people approached me to
• 33:04
  Google Professional and I was running 44 seven like that.
• 33:09
  My question is, I was running 44 seven, so I went from 46 to 44.
• 33:16
  Yeah. So you know, I was looking at
• 33:18
  coach. I was like, what?
• 33:20
  What? What are you talking about?
• 33:21
  I didn't have no I you. Have no clue, but yeah, right.
• 33:24
  Yeah, yeah. I didn't have any idea.
• 33:26
  So what are you talking about, Pro?
• 33:28
  He said yeah, you could go out and run professional.
• 33:31
  I said what is that? You can get an actual ride.
• 33:34
  Yeah, so. So he was telling me.
• 33:36
  He was telling me about it and I was like, but I'm still in
• 33:39
  school, like, no, right, He said.
• 33:42
  I said no, he said you could after you're done school.
• 33:46
  But you see, I was back then. I don't want to say I was naive,
• 33:50
  but I I didn't, I didn't know. Yeah, right.
• 33:53
  Yeah, I think it's. I think it's the definition of
• 33:55
  naive. I know sometimes naive feels
• 33:57
  like a a slander or something like that, but I mean, I'm
• 34:00
  envisioning your if if this is your junior year of LSU, so
• 34:04
  you're 20 years old at best. Maybe yeah, 21.
• 34:08
  Yeah, it's it, you know, you're, it's your third year in the
• 34:11
  States. You made a team.
• 34:14
  You know, when you said that, I thought back, I was like, wow,
• 34:16
  like what kind of experience is that?
• 34:17
  You know, you were, you were good in Granada, but not
• 34:20
  stellar. Like you weren't making world
• 34:22
  junior team, you know what I'm saying?
• 34:23
  And now three years later, which is like that, you're traveling
• 34:28
  to Canada as a member of the Granada national team.
• 34:31
  Like bro, that's I mean, there's a billion things being thrown at
• 34:35
  you. That's amazing.
• 34:37
  Yeah, I made it. I made it the finals and I think
• 34:40
  I end up getting either 6/6 or 5th and back then they pay, they
• 34:46
  pay the the top eight. So yeah, I got paid, but I
• 34:52
  couldn't accept the money because I was in because I was
• 34:54
  in college. So Cochini, I think you could
• 34:58
  get the money, but you cannot get it physically.
• 35:01
  So he put it in a trust fund and he said then when I'm when I'm
• 35:05
  done, like I would get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:08
  So I think the LSU, they did something.
• 35:11
  They put it in that. Yeah, I remember something about
• 35:12
  that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:13
  Yeah, yeah. So and then we're not done.
• 35:15
  So from there and from there, and it kind of hit me that no,
• 35:20
  no, I start studying the sport. No, no, I made the finance, so
• 35:24
  now I'm start studying it. Because you didn't even have
• 35:27
  like a per view that running could be a career.
• 35:31
  You knew it as a collegiate, like, oh, I can make an
• 35:33
  education, but there was no like, I could be Michael
• 35:36
  Johnson. Like that's still not even that.
• 35:39
  So, so now I'm start, I start studying, studying the sport.
• 35:42
  No one start looking at the history and having a better
• 35:46
  understanding though. So you could say Winnipeg.
• 35:50
  Can I open my eyes? Yeah.
• 35:51
  Very cool. Yeah.
• 35:53
  And from there. And I just.
• 35:55
  I just took off. Yeah.
• 35:57
  Yeah. Because in college, in college,
• 35:59
  I was pretty good. I want to start with number four
• 36:01
  in the world. So no, I no, I started now.
• 36:05
  I want to be the best now. Yeah.
• 36:07
  No, Yeah. I just say, man, I could do
• 36:09
  this, you know, now I make the finals.
• 36:13
  I could do this. Yeah.
• 36:15
  So. Yeah.
• 36:16
  That's that, you know, that's just, it's amazing to me because
• 36:21
  you know, I'm obviously very US folks.
• 36:23
  I grew up in the US and things like that.
• 36:24
  And you know, we for, for track people, we may not be as into
• 36:29
  track as some of our coaches may want, but we certainly knew, you
• 36:31
  know, like I said, when growing up, I knew Carl Lewis and
• 36:34
  Michael Johns, like those were like, Oh yeah, they're, and I
• 36:37
  knew I probably maybe didn't know what professional meant,
• 36:39
  but I knew that's what they did for a career.
• 36:41
  But I didn't know, you know, what all that actually entailed.
• 36:44
  And as you run track and I was terrible.
• 36:46
  So I never had an idea of even going to college for track.
• 36:48
  But you know, there's the thought of like, oh, they're
• 36:50
  stages and you know, you go from high school to college and
• 36:53
  college to pro. I I just imagine, you know, I
• 36:56
  don't want to over index and say, Oh, you know, you're just a
• 37:01
  little kid growing up in Granada, but you didn't even
• 37:03
  have ATV for crying out. Like you're listening to the
• 37:04
  stuff on radio. That's crazy to me.
• 37:07
  But so to, to in this really small window to go from like,
• 37:10
  Oh, wow, I can go to college because of my running.
• 37:13
  That's cool. Oh, I can now I can go like I
• 37:17
  can get paid for my like within three years.
• 37:22
  I mean, that's amazing to me. We've been doing this podcast
• 37:25
  for five years. So longer shorter than we've
• 37:28
  been doing this podcast. You had you had this
• 37:30
  unbelievable education of track and field.
• 37:33
  That is so cool. Like I mean just.
• 37:35
  So, yeah, but, but you know, 'cause when I got to wear a
• 37:38
  shoe, when I got to wear a shoe, Cochin, we had Derek Brew.
• 37:45
  So I was kind of the, yeah, I was kind of the replacement for
• 37:48
  Derek Brew. And I remember, OK, you know, I
• 37:53
  went to the SEC. So no, you know, I know it's
• 37:58
  good competition because my my teammates was telling me, man,
• 38:02
  it's you know, we have we're going up against these guys.
• 38:05
  It was the Alvard Monk cause and the did you know why and those
• 38:12
  and the Brendan calls and the Andrew Pierce.
• 38:15
  So they were telling me about these guys that I don't know.
• 38:18
  I have no idea who they are, you know.
• 38:21
  And then I remember we had a Indo meet.
• 38:24
  We had a Indo meet in in LSU and Auburn, Auburn team and Auburn
• 38:31
  had they are good 4x4. They had even Monko but I didn't
• 38:34
  know whoever Monko were in my first year.
• 38:37
  And we uncle the Cuccini was like when I got there he was
• 38:42
  like I want you to uncle my 4x4. I was like, so then you know, I
• 38:47
  said, I said, why me? You know, because I mean, I just
• 38:52
  got just got you like why, why you want to put that?
• 38:56
  So I thought there was somebody else.
• 38:58
  You can't, you know, I'm candy for my for it's a big deal.
• 39:01
  Like you for the, you know, it's a big, especially in the SEC.
• 39:04
  It's a big deal. And sometimes people don't want
• 39:07
  that pressure. So I first of all, I didn't want
• 39:09
  the pressure because I was like, man, Dang, I just got you.
• 39:12
  Let me get you know. Yeah, let me breathe here,
• 39:15
  buddy. Yeah, but then when he told me
• 39:19
  and then he and I, we we were, I was in the office and we were
• 39:21
  having a conversation and we were like, because I just think
• 39:26
  you're you're ready for it. I was like, OK.
• 39:29
  And so with the monk, we had the four by four.
• 39:34
  And I think we were when I got the stick, you know, we were, we
• 39:38
  were foot, but I end up running and we end up running him down.
• 39:44
  But we didn't beat him. But we got second.
• 39:47
  Close the gap. Yeah, but I end up and everybody
• 39:50
  was hogging me up. So then I was like, what the
• 39:52
  heck they hogging me up for? Everybody was giving me dabs and
• 39:55
  stuff and they were like, good job, good job.
• 39:57
  But I was like, but we got second.
• 39:59
  They were like, yeah, but do you know who you run against?
• 40:04
  Right. They were like, this is Eva
• 40:06
  Monko. And so probably, probably
• 40:10
  because I didn't know who he were, I just went after him.
• 40:14
  Probably if I knew who he were, I might not just back off or
• 40:17
  whatever. But I didn't ask him.
• 40:18
  Hey, I'm trying to win. Sometimes ignorance is good.
• 40:22
  Yeah. So I think from there on from
• 40:25
  that risk, I end up getting a lot of respect and like you
• 40:31
  could see the guys on the team, even my was my first year, the
• 40:37
  guys on the team cannot look up to me now because of what I did
• 40:41
  in that one race. Wow.
• 40:44
  Yeah. That's amazing.
• 40:46
  Let's do a little Fast forward because I want to get into
• 40:49
  coaching. So I'm assuming after LSU you
• 40:52
  ran on the pro circuit for some amount of time where did as as
• 40:57
  you were winding down that part of your career, which is still
• 41:00
  amazing because you had no idea that that was going to be your
• 41:02
  life in Granada. I just that's so awesome.
• 41:04
  That's so cool. When how does coaching come into
• 41:08
  the picture here? You know you becoming a coach.
• 41:10
  Well, you know when you left, when I left LSU, I still remain
• 41:16
  to train with Coach Henry. But you know, back then to train
• 41:22
  you had to be a volunteer, right?
• 41:24
  You had to be a volunteer coach. So Coach Henry made me a
• 41:27
  volunteer coach and so I was more helping with the, the 400
• 41:33
  Miller runners. So sometime when he, he would
• 41:36
  leave, he would leave and he would go to the the SEC meetings
• 41:43
  and stuff. So he would leave the team with
• 41:46
  me. And I I think probably, you
• 41:49
  know, my time in LSU training, you know, I could do the
• 41:57
  workouts, but my teammates, they would have a hard time.
• 42:01
  I'm probably probably sad that I would always encourage them.
• 42:06
  Like I would always say, OK, if you can't be in front, just be
• 42:10
  close. Just be close to me.
• 42:11
  Like it would help you. Just keep your eyes on my back.
• 42:14
  Just keep, you know, just keep. So I guess that I never thought
• 42:19
  I would end up in coaching like, like, you know, he wasn't like
• 42:24
  when I am when I retired. I retired after the Olympics in
• 42:28
  Beijing, and that was 2008. And that year I ran 44 six.
• 42:36
  I retired around 44 six. Yeah.
• 42:39
  And you know, I, I just didn't, I could, I know I could have
• 42:44
  still do it on a high level, but I just didn't want to do it
• 42:48
  anymore. Yeah, sure.
• 42:49
  You know, I just didn't want to do it anymore.
• 42:51
  And I went to Cochenry and I told him, you know, I said, man,
• 42:58
  I think I'm a retired. He was like, you're like, you
• 43:03
  sure? Like I was like, yeah, yeah.
• 43:05
  I don't think I want to do it anymore.
• 43:07
  You're like forensic when people say they retire and then after
• 43:13
  two weeks after this, people start back training, then they
• 43:16
  get the urge to want to come back.
• 43:19
  I said, Nah, man, that's it for me.
• 43:21
  And, you know, I retired. And then one day I was home in
• 43:26
  College Station. But I used to, when I retired, I
• 43:29
  used to always go up and help him.
• 43:32
  So because Pat went to Texas A&M, so you moved to college?
• 43:35
  Station, yeah, I followed, I followed him to College Station.
• 43:38
  So I used to always go and help him in training like I used to
• 43:44
  always go and help with the with the 400 million runners.
• 43:48
  And so when I was home and he called me and he said forensic
• 43:53
  come up because training was 2:30.
• 43:55
  So I said I would go for 2:30. He came.
• 43:57
  He said come up, come up a little earlier.
• 44:01
  So I said OK, I went up by there around 1:00 and we were sitting
• 44:04
  in the office. And then he asked me, he said,
• 44:08
  you sure you want to retire? So I thought he was trying to
• 44:10
  tuck me into coming back. I like the coach.
• 44:13
  That's it. That's it for me.
• 44:15
  That's it. I don't want to do it anymore.
• 44:16
  That's it. I say.
• 44:17
  I say. I'm sure.
• 44:18
  I said no. I'm going out on my terms.
• 44:20
  Yeah. Like nobody's forcing me out.
• 44:23
  I'm going to turn my terms. And then he was like, I'm hiring
• 44:27
  you, All right? What?
• 44:30
  He was like, I'm hiring you. I said, what you mean you're
• 44:33
  hiring me? He was like, I saved this.
• 44:37
  He was like, I saved this spot for you.
• 44:39
  He said I could have six coaches and I was at 5:00 and I was
• 44:43
  hoping one day you tell me you want to coach.
• 44:45
  So I was saving it for you. I was like, I didn't know what
• 44:50
  to say. I was like what the heck?
• 44:52
  What's I mean, Yeah, yeah. Then I was like, you were like I
• 44:57
  said, coach, so you telling me I'm going to be on staff, you're
• 45:01
  like, yeah, you're going to be one of my assistant coaches, so
• 45:05
  you're going to walk with me. I was like, OK, Then you know,
• 45:10
  you said I could only pay you this because this is what I
• 45:14
  could pay you for. And I said, I said main reason.
• 45:17
  It's more than I'm making now. Yeah, I said, I don't care, man,
• 45:21
  I said. And then that's all.
• 45:24
  That's how I end up. I end up in coaching, but I end
• 45:27
  up working with the with the 400 meters.
• 45:30
  I end up my my main responsibilities was the the 400
• 45:34
  meter group and helping him with the 1/2.
• 45:38
  So I was more like the 444 and the and the four by four and the
• 45:45
  800. No, we had so many depth in the
• 45:49
  400. We had Kevin back then our C
• 45:53
  team could run three or three like we had an A-Team B team and
• 45:58
  the C team could even run three or three.
• 46:00
  We had so many depths and we had guys that was running 46146 two
• 46:06
  and they couldn't travel. They couldn't get on the bus to
• 46:09
  travel. So one day he called me in and
• 46:11
  he was like, I want you to take this group of guys.
• 46:17
  I don't want you to coach them to run the 800.
• 46:23
  But I was like, but I never coached the 800 before.
• 46:27
  You're like, it's no different than coaching the 400.
• 46:31
  I like Nah, coach, Nah. It's different, You know, It's
• 46:37
  different. But my manager at the time, my
• 46:41
  manager was Ricky Sims. I don't know if you know Ricky
• 46:44
  Sims. I know by name.
• 46:45
  Yeah, Ricky Sims was my manager. So I called Ricky because Ricky
• 46:50
  was my manager, but Ricky was still coaching.
• 46:52
  Ricky were coaching somebody, Kenya, Kenya runners.
• 46:56
  So I called Ricky and I told Ricky, I said this is I said,
• 47:01
  man, this is Cochin. You give me a, a project, a
• 47:04
  character project editor and what you think, how you think I
• 47:09
  should go about doing it. And we had a conversation and he
• 47:13
  said it's no different to running the 400, but now you
• 47:18
  have to kind of add some mileage and do it.
• 47:22
  And you kind of help me out with that.
• 47:25
  And it's just history from there.
• 47:29
  It's interesting because a question that I love to ask
• 47:31
  because it was a big part of my coaching career was coaching
• 47:33
  education. And coaching education, I've
• 47:36
  kind of, I describe it as formal and informal.
• 47:39
  And you know, formal is like USATF level one level 2.
• 47:43
  Now we have USTFCCCA, Altis, things like that.
• 47:46
  Informal, which is just as important in my opinion, is
• 47:50
  calling up a Ricky Sims or sitting down with a Coach Henry
• 47:53
  and be like, all right, cool. What would you do on this kind
• 47:56
  of day? Well, I just thought about this.
• 47:57
  Should we do that? You know, that's that that back
• 47:59
  and forth is just as valuable. So you had someone like Ricky
• 48:02
  Sims does call up and bounce off ideas.
• 48:05
  Yeah, but what I like, what I like about coaching, and he's
• 48:12
  one of the most influential people in my life, not because
• 48:16
  he was my coach, but because of, you know, like I spent a lot of
• 48:22
  time with him like we have because basically the same
• 48:27
  hobbies. We like looking at hoses when
• 48:30
  people building houses. We like to go inside the house.
• 48:32
  I just keep looking at stuff. But what I like about him is I
• 48:40
  never had to look over my shoulder.
• 48:43
  He never asked me why I'm doing this.
• 48:45
  He never say you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that.
• 48:48
  Like he trusted me enough to let me do my thing.
• 48:54
  So you know, it was like probably trial and error.
• 48:57
  But even when I write the workouts and stuff, I because I
• 49:05
  write, I write my own workouts and he writes his workouts.
• 49:10
  So I used to give him a copy of what I'm doing for the week and
• 49:14
  he give me a copy of what he is doing for the week.
• 49:18
  So if we have somebody that runs the 800 that could run on the 4
• 49:22
  by 4, so we on the same page. So it give me that freedom to
• 49:29
  just be myself and go out there and just work with the kids.
• 49:33
  I never questioned what I'm why, why are you doing this?
• 49:36
  You shouldn't do this. You shouldn't do that and never
• 49:39
  write any workers for me. He just let me do my thing and
• 49:43
  which I really appreciate him for putting that trust in me.
• 49:47
  And I think, I think that kind of made me the person I am
• 49:51
  today. Yeah, that, that's interesting.
• 49:53
  You know, obviously I know Coach Henry this much compared to to
• 49:56
  you. I've worked with him when we
• 49:59
  hosted NCAA's at his place. And so, you know, we're, we're
• 50:02
  putting in equipment and things like that.
• 50:04
  And he's my experience with him and I love, this is not a knock
• 50:07
  at all on Coach Henry. You know, Pat is a legacy in our
• 50:11
  sport for coaching. He's very exacting.
• 50:14
  Like I, I remember things about when we were putting in
• 50:17
  equipment, like I, I remember this, this stuck out to me.
• 50:22
  We had everything set up. It was the day before practice
• 50:25
  started or whatnot. And he's in the middle of the
• 50:27
  field and I just go up and I just wanted to check to make
• 50:29
  sure he felt all good about everything, right.
• 50:32
  And he goes, yeah, he goes, you see this right here.
• 50:35
  And it was just a little platform, wasn't our, it was for
• 50:38
  the, the trumpeter to do the national anthem.
• 50:42
  And I, you know, now, so I was kind of puzzled because I'm
• 50:43
  like, well, you know, it has nothing to do with me, you know?
• 50:45
  But he's like, you see this right here.
• 50:46
  And I was like, yes, Sir. He's like, yeah, we need to make
• 50:48
  sure we get a skirt around it, you know, because it otherwise
• 50:51
  it looks kind of ugly. And I just want to make sure.
• 50:53
  And I just remember being struck like how I mean, this guy, he's
• 50:57
  also trying to win the national title by the way he did, by the
• 50:59
  way they won the the men's title.
• 51:01
  You know, he's a date. He's 24 hours away from starting
• 51:04
  the war that is NCAA championship at his place that
• 51:07
  he's hosting. And he still had the mind of of
• 51:11
  everything needs to be perfect that he was thinking about where
• 51:14
  the the bugler was going to be for the national.
• 51:17
  Like that just struck me of like, oh, this guy, he he's a a
• 51:22
  time management guru, a an operational, like everything has
• 51:28
  to be in its place. So I would have, if you would
• 51:30
  have asked me, Hey, how do you think Pat treated me?
• 51:32
  I'm like, oh, well, dude, but you're, you're a rookie coach.
• 51:34
  I mean, it's, it's one thing to be an athlete and then coach.
• 51:37
  That's not a automatic transition.
• 51:39
  I would have thought like, you know, under, under your finger,
• 51:41
  under his thumbprint of watching every workout.
• 51:44
  Hey, do this work it like it would have been more
• 51:47
  micromanaging and then lengthen it out as you prove yourself.
• 51:51
  Now it's your group. But you're saying from the get
• 51:53
  go he had trust of that's that's really it like like that There's
• 51:59
  a leadership lesson there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:02
  He just, he just let me do my thing.
• 52:06
  And people used to ask me all the time.
• 52:07
  People ask me all the time today, like men, like, what kind
• 52:11
  of person is, you know, And I tell them and they look at me
• 52:18
  like, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:21
  They're like, no, I said yeah, I said the thing about it.
• 52:26
  I said the thing what you all understand, You all don't know
• 52:30
  the man. I know him.
• 52:34
  You all don't know him outside in the hitter battle, like when
• 52:40
  he had the the NCAA championship or he had the the US
• 52:44
  championship, get in his atmosphere.
• 52:46
  But you all don't know who he who he demands.
• 52:49
  I I know who he is. Great point.
• 52:53
  I I, I've said it in anyway, it affected my life when this coach
• 52:56
  told me this statement. It was George Williams from
• 52:58
  formerly of Saint Augustine's. If you're not in the huddle, you
• 53:01
  don't know the play. You're not.
• 53:03
  You are. You're in Pat Henry's huddle.
• 53:05
  We're on the outside. So here's what we see.
• 53:08
  And then there's reality of actually being in the the huddle
• 53:11
  and knowing the man the way it operate.
• 53:13
  Yeah, That's that's that's great insight.
• 53:15
  I do. I do love that.
• 53:16
  It makes me think that if, if Elaine is telling the story,
• 53:21
  then there are others who have similar stories of like, Oh
• 53:23
  yeah, he trusts me. He put me in charge of this.
• 53:25
  And I I did you did you still feel?
• 53:28
  Because you know, it's, it's always interesting to me when a
• 53:32
  coach works for when a coach who was an athlete works for the
• 53:36
  coach or work even works with the coach who was their coach.
• 53:39
  So Pat coach coached you and now you're working with Pat because
• 53:45
  there's deference, right? You know, as an athlete, you're
• 53:47
  like, oh, it's coach. He tells me to jump off the
• 53:49
  bridge. I'll do it because that's going
• 53:51
  to make me run faster. And now you get and he's the
• 53:53
  head coach. So it's not equal equal, but
• 53:56
  you're closer to equal business stature here.
• 53:59
  Was there any from your side as you're learning?
• 54:02
  He's giving you such a responsibility.
• 54:03
  It's it's quite amazing. Was there any like imposter
• 54:08
  syndrome, fear, like, you know, I don't want to mess up with
• 54:12
  what is this how Pat would do it?
• 54:14
  Or did you just full bore? And if I make a mistake, I feel
• 54:17
  like he's got my back no matter what.
• 54:19
  No, no, I am, because that's so that's what he told me.
• 54:25
  Like don't, don't be scared to make mistakes for his sake you
• 54:27
  will make mistakes. Don't be scared.
• 54:30
  So I never, I never was worried about making a mistake.
• 54:34
  And I assume you had to have had that kind of experience as an
• 54:37
  athlete for him as well. Like, you made a mistake and it
• 54:39
  was like, well, he didn't cut me off the team.
• 54:42
  I learned and moved on. Well, you know, in in because I
• 54:49
  I coach now and I don't get angry at the athletes.
• 54:54
  I don't cuss. I don't cuss at them.
• 54:56
  I don't use obscene. I didn't because my coach never
• 55:01
  he never did that for me. So I don't do that to my to my
• 55:05
  office, but I would I demand perfection.
• 55:14
  You know, I would be OK. We we have to come to you in 21
• 55:19
  one. So I want you to come to you in
• 55:22
  21 one, you know, and because if you come to in 21 one and then I
• 55:28
  would ask you, OK, you are 21 one, then you hit the 232, but
• 55:35
  you didn't finish and 11 like where did you feel?
• 55:39
  When did you feel bad? Then when you give me that
• 55:42
  feedback, then I could know to go and alter the world court so
• 55:46
  you could finish and the 12. But if you don't come to it in
• 55:50
  the in the in the 21 one, I can't make any.
• 55:54
  Yeah, you're guessing. Yeah, yeah.
• 55:55
  So. That makes sense.
• 55:57
  He OK, He's a forensic. We have to come to it 21/1 to
• 56:01
  21/3 and I think my time competing for him.
• 56:08
  I think I want to say I don't want to say is a mistake because
• 56:12
  I never think look at it as mistakes, but I want to say it
• 56:16
  was on me and the Olympic semi final in 2004.
• 56:24
  I want to say I was too confident, but I was I got into
• 56:27
  the finals when I should have won my semi final.
• 56:31
  I got into the finals based on time, but I had the race.
• 56:37
  I won the race, but I shut it down.
• 56:40
  You know, you know, you you come out and I just shut it down.
• 56:42
  You know, you had it. And then two guys just came and
• 56:45
  meet me on the line and you know, I was the favorite to win
• 56:50
  at at that games and I was keeping foot.
• 56:54
  And then I went out, I went back to the the warm up area and he
• 56:59
  never cursed at me. He never force at me.
• 57:02
  And he said, I still believe I got in it.
• 57:06
  He said, I still believe you could win.
• 57:07
  See, you know, I still believe you could win.
• 57:13
  So I was like, OK, let's go, you know?
• 57:15
  So I. Love that proof.
• 57:18
  Yeah, yeah. I always give me the yeah, I
• 57:20
  always give me the confidence that I could do anything that
• 57:25
  and that way I always wanted to like, you know, even competing
• 57:30
  for him in college, like I don't see, we never really fail.
• 57:34
  We always successful, you know, because because of the way that,
• 57:40
  you know, coming from Essex and then going to LSU and then
• 57:44
  sitting in the in the team meetings and listen to him
• 57:48
  speak, man, he just gets you pumped, man.
• 57:52
  You know, he just gets you. Like you want to go out there
• 57:54
  and just go to war, you know, go to war for him.
• 57:58
  So, yeah, that kind of, I think you know, me, me competing for
• 58:06
  him. But you know, I was, I was more
• 58:09
  on the macho side as an athlete and as a student athlete, like
• 58:16
  going to classes, you know, I never party, I never drink, you
• 58:19
  know what I'm saying? So I was more on a macho side.
• 58:22
  So I never really get into trouble.
• 58:24
  It was always more about I just wanted to do well.
• 58:28
  And maybe, you know, coming up, coming from green, you know, if
• 58:32
  they always tell you if you don't pass your classes, if you
• 58:37
  fail or whatever, and you don't stay above the 12 credit, like
• 58:43
  once you fail a class, you you mess up your visa, your student
• 58:46
  visa. So you always, you always
• 58:48
  trying. Yeah, I was trying to be, you
• 58:50
  don't want to mess up, you don't want to fail.
• 58:53
  So I think that him looking at me that way, never making a
• 58:59
  mistake. I was doing everything right.
• 59:03
  I think that kind of transferred to my coaching.
• 59:07
  So yeah, I was OK. Well, you do it, you do it as an
• 59:11
  athlete and you do it this way, you know, and yeah, he was just,
• 59:15
  it was just fun working for him. He just, it was, it was just
• 59:19
  fun. I am, I enjoyed.
• 59:21
  We, you know, sometimes used to before by four, we used to, I
• 59:26
  used to hate losing the four by four, I used to hate it.
• 59:30
  And I remember one time we had Fred Malik.
• 59:34
  We had a pretty good team. The team was was, I mean, great,
• 59:39
  but we couldn't beat Florida and Florida had Magic Glass and Hugh
• 59:44
  Graham and those guys. Do you know how?
• 59:47
  And then we couldn't beat him. And I was like, I start thinking
• 59:50
  to myself, as a man, we could match up with them.
• 59:52
  What why? Why we cannot beat him?
• 59:54
  So one day I went to him. I started thinking, I went to
• 59:57
  him and I said, because we used to anchor Fred.
• 1:00:00
  We were anchoring Fred. We were already Molik first.
• 1:00:06
  So I went to him and I said, man, I went to him and I said
• 1:00:09
  coach, I said I have an idea. You're like what?
• 1:00:12
  What? I said, man, let's run Fred
• 1:00:14
  first. I'm talking about Indus.
• 1:00:16
  I said let's run Fred first. You're like, what you mean?
• 1:00:20
  I said let's run Fred first. You're like.
• 1:00:25
  So then I give him my reasoning. He said OK.
• 1:00:28
  He said let me think about it. But then I tell him, I said
• 1:00:34
  let's not do it yet. Let's wait.
• 1:00:38
  He said what you mean I said let's do that in national meet.
• 1:00:43
  And then at the national meet. We.
• 1:00:47
  We weren't Fred first. No, you know you are.
• 1:00:50
  Yeah, we weren't Fred first, so. What year is this?
• 1:00:54
  When Fred and him when Fred was in, I think I want to say I left
• 1:00:58
  here name in. I left here name in 18.
• 1:01:01
  So I want to say in 17. Was this at home?
• 1:01:05
  No, we were in Atkinson. Yeah, we had, we had, we had a
• 1:01:09
  national championship in Hawkins.
• 1:01:10
  Because that, that story I told about Pat with the Nationals, I,
• 1:01:13
  I, you guys won. You were there.
• 1:01:14
  Because I distinctly remember now.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This memory just came up when
• 1:01:18
  when it was all over. I remember you running across
• 1:01:21
  the track, high step, that it was just a vision I had.
• 1:01:24
  I literally hit that memory just hit me.
• 1:01:25
  I was like, oh, wait a minute. I remember this.
• 1:01:28
  Yeah. Molik, Molik, our anchor.
• 1:01:29
  Yeah. So.
• 1:01:33
  So he said why? Why you want to do that?
• 1:01:35
  I said because Fred will give us a lead.
• 1:01:39
  I said we just have to put the pressure on Fred to give us 15
• 1:01:42
  meter lead. I said once we get 15 meter
• 1:01:45
  lead, they're not running us down.
• 1:01:46
  He said OK, OK, OK. And So what we did, when we did
• 1:01:51
  it, they couldn't adjust. It was too late.
• 1:01:55
  And then I mean, we just kill them, man.
• 1:01:58
  We just so that was that working with him, I would have ideas and
• 1:02:05
  and I would run the ideas by him and he would he would say OK.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah, that that's actually really first of all, it's a
• 1:02:12
  testament to both of you. You know, he if you told that
• 1:02:16
  story and said but Pat said, hey Eileen, appreciate that I've won
• 1:02:21
  a few 4 by fours. It's Fred.
• 1:02:23
  We're going to stick to way it is everybody be like Oh yeah,
• 1:02:25
  OK. Makes it you know, Pat's the
• 1:02:27
  man. Yeah, I get it that he was able
• 1:02:30
  to listen to his staff and make that and, and take that risk at
• 1:02:35
  nationals for crying out loud to take that risk.
• 1:02:37
  But also a testament to you that you can speak truth to power
• 1:02:41
  that you weren't just like, oh man, it's this is a crazy idea.
• 1:02:45
  I I can't tell. That's my coach, man.
• 1:02:47
  I can't tell him that that you were like, hey, I'm going to I'm
• 1:02:49
  going to risk it. I'm going to, I'm going to make
• 1:02:51
  I'm going to risk looking foolish.
• 1:02:53
  I'm going to give him my suggestion and my reasoning.
• 1:02:55
  That was important too, not just, you know, some Willy nilly
• 1:02:57
  I drew it up on the chalkboard, like I actually have reasoning
• 1:03:00
  behind it. That's a testament to you of
• 1:03:02
  like that, that leadership that you showed back as an athlete as
• 1:03:05
  well, that that's that's an amazing story.
• 1:03:07
  Yeah. But that's, that's the trust,
• 1:03:09
  trust, trust you having us as a staff, though we didn't, you
• 1:03:13
  know, we, we had a great staff too.
• 1:03:15
  Yeah, trust. Trust is the that that's the
• 1:03:17
  right word there. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:03:21
  You know, I believe, especially in situations like this, that
• 1:03:27
  when you get into coaching from kind of the background that you
• 1:03:30
  came from that you still have an out.
• 1:03:34
  What I mean by that is after year one, year two year three,
• 1:03:37
  because you're a smart individual, your experiences
• 1:03:40
  continue to grow as far as like what other job opportunities and
• 1:03:44
  things like that maybe in America or back home and things
• 1:03:46
  like that, that you still have an out that after three years,
• 1:03:49
  Oh, you know what? I enjoyed it, but I bought a
• 1:03:52
  business back in Granada and now I run a whatever, you know, when
• 1:03:56
  did, how many seasons did it take before it was like, Oh
• 1:04:01
  yeah, I'm a, I'm, I'm no longer a lean Francisque, the athlete.
• 1:04:05
  I'm, I'm coach Francisque. When do you remember, Can you
• 1:04:08
  kind of remember, feel like when it was like, Yep, this is now,
• 1:04:11
  you know, I'm, I'm 30 or however old you were when I'm 60, this
• 1:04:14
  is what I'm going to be doing. Do you do you remember that
• 1:04:17
  feeling? Yeah, when I left ANM, when I
• 1:04:20
  left ANM, I got this, the scholarship from the IOC, like
• 1:04:26
  it was, it was 32 Olympians. And so we had to interview for
• 1:04:36
  that scholarship to go and do your master's in sports ethics
• 1:04:40
  and integrity. So when I left, ANMI went to
• 1:04:44
  study in Europe. I spent two years doing a
• 1:04:46
  master's in sports ethics and integrity.
• 1:04:49
  Six, yeah, six different countries.
• 1:04:52
  So wow. And but when I left ANM, we had
• 1:04:58
  moved to moved to San Jose, San Jose.
• 1:05:05
  But you know, when Fred I was helping coach with Fred in in
• 1:05:10
  college because Fred was 400 million runners and but when
• 1:05:14
  Fred left, he he had went to us. Oh, is that?
• 1:05:17
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:05:19
  Yeah, in Arizona. But he wasn't doing as well as
• 1:05:24
  he wanted. So he reached out to me and he
• 1:05:27
  wanted to me to coach him. But I just got in the
• 1:05:31
  scholarship to go and study and it, you know, it's free.
• 1:05:35
  You get him to do your master's. Is the IOC paying for it?
• 1:05:38
  Nothing is coming out of your pocket.
• 1:05:41
  So I told him, I told him I didn't want to coach.
• 1:05:45
  I said, you know, I'm about to go study.
• 1:05:47
  So I don't think I could coach to write the masters that.
• 1:05:52
  That's that seemed to be a hard decision though.
• 1:05:54
  Yeah, yeah, it's Fred currently, for crying out loud.
• 1:05:56
  Right. Yeah, yeah, write that thesis.
• 1:05:58
  And so I told him, I said OK, what I would do.
• 1:06:02
  I would visit a couple camps and then I would tell you which camp
• 1:06:07
  I think best fits you. Interesting.
• 1:06:10
  So I went to Florida, Jacksonville, I visit a couple
• 1:06:14
  camps, then I put in the camp in Jacksonville is best suited.
• 1:06:19
  So he had to go to Jacksonville to trade.
• 1:06:21
  But then he had everything lined up, apartments, everything.
• 1:06:26
  And you know, when I think he's get there, I called him and
• 1:06:31
  said, man, how is it? He said, man, I'm not good.
• 1:06:35
  I was like, what? He said, man, I'm not good.
• 1:06:38
  He said I don't want to go. So then he said to me, can you
• 1:06:43
  send me the training and I get somebody to supervise?
• 1:06:49
  And I was like, OK, so I was selling in the training and and
• 1:06:54
  he had them. Joey, Joey, your team.
• 1:06:57
  So he was in Arizona, but sometimes you go to Miami and
• 1:06:59
  Joey was supervisor. And so then when he would come
• 1:07:04
  to Europe, I would meet because I'm in Europe.
• 1:07:07
  I would meet up with him. I would meet up with him and we
• 1:07:09
  will go to the track mix and stuff.
• 1:07:11
  And when I was writing my thesis and I went Athens, Greece, that
• 1:07:18
  was during the pandemic. Nobody was travelling, nobody
• 1:07:22
  was travelling, Nobody couldn't, you know, because I was in when
• 1:07:26
  the pandemic hit, I was in Belgium, but I had to go to
• 1:07:30
  Greece to write my thesis because that way my, my mentor
• 1:07:34
  was. And so Fred ended up in Greece.
• 1:07:40
  I don't know how the heck he end up in Greece, but he ended up in
• 1:07:45
  Greece during the pandemic. So while I was writing my
• 1:07:48
  thesis, you were there with me. Oh wow.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah, so we were training. We were training and getting
• 1:07:57
  ready and stuff. And then after I graduated and
• 1:08:00
  stuff with my master's and I couldn't do anything because,
• 1:08:03
  you know, I have a master's degrees, politics and integrity.
• 1:08:06
  I could, I mean integrity officer, I could go, you know,
• 1:08:10
  find job in the integrity business with sports.
• 1:08:16
  But yeah, yeah, administration. Yeah, big.
• 1:08:18
  Time yeah, I said Nah, man, I want to coach you know my my
• 1:08:24
  colleague is is coaching. I like the teaching aspect of
• 1:08:27
  it. Yeah, I like the I like the
• 1:08:30
  competition. You know, I like, I like trying
• 1:08:34
  to prove yourself. You know, I like coming up
• 1:08:37
  against the best, you know, like I enjoyed coming up against
• 1:08:44
  Michael Norman. You know, I think that's all you
• 1:08:47
  prove yourself. I enjoy coming up against with
• 1:08:49
  Fred running the four. I enjoy.
• 1:08:51
  I enjoy coming up against Stephen Gardner.
• 1:08:55
  You don't want to back down. You don't want to back down from
• 1:08:59
  from the competition. You know, you're not competing,
• 1:09:02
  but you have somebody with the same mentality and you want to
• 1:09:07
  get the best out of them. So you didn't you don't want to
• 1:09:09
  back down. So I like it.
• 1:09:11
  I like the aspect of it. And when Fred decided to, he
• 1:09:15
  wants to run 100, that'd make it more fun because, you know,
• 1:09:19
  people were daunting that people were daunting us.
• 1:09:22
  You know, when we made the decision, you know, I was
• 1:09:26
  catching him to run the brick world record in the four.
• 1:09:31
  And you know, we were going to the chairs to run the four.
• 1:09:35
  Then he said, man, I want to run 100.
• 1:09:37
  I was like, what? He said I want to run.
• 1:09:39
  I was like, no, I said no, you know, and then but we decided to
• 1:09:43
  do it. I remember we getting there in
• 1:09:46
  Eugene for the trials and you know when you, you know when you
• 1:09:51
  touch them, when we, we at the airport, so every people know
• 1:09:55
  who we are now. So you know, people looking at
• 1:09:58
  you and you know, they're not saying it to your face, but we
• 1:10:01
  know the way they're looking at you.
• 1:10:03
  The current is stupid. They say look, look at, look at
• 1:10:06
  those. Throwing it all away.
• 1:10:07
  Yeah, look. Look at those fools.
• 1:10:09
  You know, so, so with that, because I know Fred, I recruited
• 1:10:15
  Fred and I know I know him pretty well.
• 1:10:18
  So I had no dog. I had no dog, I had no dog that
• 1:10:24
  they could have pulled it up. But I told him, I said, man,
• 1:10:26
  listen, I'm going to be honest with you.
• 1:10:28
  It's either we look like geniuses or we look stupid.
• 1:10:33
  But I'm with you 100%. If we look, if we look like
• 1:10:37
  geniuses, I'm with you. If we look stupid, I'm with you.
• 1:10:42
  I said. So I said let's go.
• 1:10:43
  And yeah, So that's that's why I said, man, I want to, I want to
• 1:10:50
  coach. I want to give back what was
• 1:10:53
  given to me, you know? I love that you were removed
• 1:10:57
  from it for a bit and it brought you back.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah, yeah. You know my experience with
• 1:11:04
  athletics, athletes and coaches as it relates to coaching.
• 1:11:08
  You know, when you're an athlete, it's a very selfish
• 1:11:12
  pursuit and that's not, you know, sometimes we think of
• 1:11:15
  selfish being negative. But you know, like when you were
• 1:11:17
  an athlete, everything coach Smart and coach Henry would say
• 1:11:22
  to you, you were internalizing to how I can be faster.
• 1:11:25
  Okay, what what they're telling me to do this, that that how how
• 1:11:28
  can I be faster? When you turn over to coach
• 1:11:31
  mode, it now becomes a selfless, a more selfless activity because
• 1:11:36
  now everything that you coach Fran seek hears you're trying to
• 1:11:39
  figure out how do I digest it, understand it and now push it
• 1:11:41
  out to my athletes. How did you it?
• 1:11:44
  It was interesting how you talked about that competitive
• 1:11:47
  spirit and as an athlete who was, you know, very high level
• 1:11:50
  athlete and now you have that competitive spirit in coaching.
• 1:11:54
  But there's a big difference when you were in that semi final
• 1:11:59
  and you pulled up at the end and two people passed you, that was
• 1:12:03
  on you. You had the control of that.
• 1:12:05
  Now if an athlete, if your athlete does that, you don't
• 1:12:09
  have, you didn't train for that. So you don't, you have 0
• 1:12:11
  control. How do you channel that
• 1:12:14
  competitiveness when it's now out of your control?
• 1:12:17
  You more control practice when it comes me time you you have
• 1:12:22
  way less control. How do you channel and and
• 1:12:24
  operate that competitiveness when you have less control?
• 1:12:29
  Well, you know, the people, the people I work with, I try to get
• 1:12:33
  them ready mentally and physically and emotionally.
• 1:12:40
  And I, I told them all the time that, OK, I cannot run the risk
• 1:12:46
  for you now. It's it's on you, but I'm going
• 1:12:50
  to get you ready to run it. And what I want you to do is I
• 1:12:55
  want you to give it your best shot.
• 1:12:59
  You know, I say you're human. Sometime there's a lot of
• 1:13:03
  elements that comes with competing.
• 1:13:06
  So then people get nervous, people get overconfident, you
• 1:13:10
  know. But the most important thing is
• 1:13:14
  execution. If based on based on how I know
• 1:13:20
  what we did in practice and because I will study the
• 1:13:26
  competition I referred and Matthew and and Qi will study
• 1:13:34
  the level of competition and what everybody do in the year.
• 1:13:40
  And I will tell them, OK, we could make the team, we could
• 1:13:44
  make the final based on what everybody do.
• 1:13:47
  If you do this, if you run your best, if you do, you will make
• 1:13:50
  the fan. And so I just, you know, I kind
• 1:13:55
  of use my experience and because I don't get nervous.
• 1:14:00
  Like even when they compete and they and sometimes they look at
• 1:14:03
  me and they say you're not nervous.
• 1:14:04
  I like no. And I think that does kind of
• 1:14:07
  help them because because I don't get nervous.
• 1:14:10
  So then they say, OK, well, if you're not nervous, that means
• 1:14:12
  OK, I'm ready, I'm ready to go. So yeah, I cannot use my
• 1:14:18
  experience because, you know, I don't want to say I never really
• 1:14:21
  get nervous, but I was focused on me and I was let them try to
• 1:14:29
  focus on them. Just I liquid this country of
• 1:14:33
  what you can do. Like, you know, if you could run
• 1:14:38
  like with corner, as in if you could run 49, you run 49.
• 1:14:42
  Like if, if you're not, if you're not ready to run for, you
• 1:14:46
  know, government for the night, like just, but if you're growing
• 1:14:49
  50.1, you're only 50.1. Let's focus on what you can do
• 1:14:53
  and just blackout early outside. Now it is on the outside, the
• 1:14:58
  influence. Just do what you could do.
• 1:14:59
  So I kind of, I don't put pressure on, you know, I don't
• 1:15:03
  say maybe we need to win, we need to do this, we need to do
• 1:15:05
  that. You know, I don't, I don't put
• 1:15:06
  any pressure. And I think once you put
• 1:15:08
  pressure, it's, it's a lot. So I just try to make it.
• 1:15:12
  You're doing this because you love it.
• 1:15:14
  You know you're running track because you love it.
• 1:15:16
  Nobody forced me to do it. You're coming out there every
• 1:15:19
  day. You're doing the training.
• 1:15:20
  It's tough training and you're doing it.
• 1:15:22
  So you're doing it because you love it.
• 1:15:24
  Just go there and have fun. Yeah, it's it's interesting.
• 1:15:26
  My my advocacy is to the track coach.
• 1:15:29
  I love the athletes. You know, they're the
• 1:15:31
  entertainment. If if I can pour into coaches,
• 1:15:34
  then I feel like I'm helping athletes.
• 1:15:36
  And so it's interesting to me when, you know, it's outside
• 1:15:39
  chirpers and stuff like that, when it's like, oh, that person
• 1:15:41
  needs to leave that coach, yadda, yadda.
• 1:15:43
  And it's like, man, if, if the training's right and you know,
• 1:15:46
  that's a whole different discussion of, you know, whether
• 1:15:49
  that training is right for that athlete.
• 1:15:50
  You know, all athletes are a little different, but it's, it's
• 1:15:54
  ultimately it's the athlete who performs.
• 1:15:56
  So you know, there's very little situational coaching at a meet,
• 1:16:01
  right? Like in a football game, I'm a
• 1:16:03
  football coach is always calling a play based on what they see
• 1:16:06
  and things like that. Here you're, I'm assuming I've
• 1:16:09
  not coached at your level. I'm assuming if you were working
• 1:16:13
  with Fred in 1/4 there, you know, this may be a bad
• 1:16:17
  assumption. You're not necessarily going to
• 1:16:19
  change your race plans based on who's in the race because you
• 1:16:21
  already know the rate, like you already know that set up right,
• 1:16:25
  Little nuances and maybe you know, between rounds, like, Hey,
• 1:16:28
  you, you let off in the first 100 or whatever, you know, those
• 1:16:30
  kind of things outside of like 4 by 1 personnel, which we are
• 1:16:33
  definitely not going to discuss that here today.
• 1:16:36
  That's coaching situational. You know, what players to put
• 1:16:38
  where and, and things like that. But it's ultimately the athlete
• 1:16:42
  who has to to do it. So I'm always a little bugged
• 1:16:44
  when someone says, Oh, the coach messed up.
• 1:16:45
  It's like the coach's training was 100 days ago, not today.
• 1:16:49
  Like I hate to say to blame the athlete, but it's on the athlete
• 1:16:52
  on this. This is what we love about track
• 1:16:54
  and field, by the way, that football, I have to have the
• 1:16:57
  quarterback throw me the ball to make me look good.
• 1:16:59
  Track, I don't. There's no one else.
• 1:17:01
  It's me, my lane. I I perform or not?
• 1:17:05
  But but say the coach messed up, I would say I would say OK, well
• 1:17:10
  why would you say the coach messed up?
• 1:17:13
  Because if they had this, if they had to look do bad, the
• 1:17:16
  coach look bad. You telling me the coach going
• 1:17:19
  to send a bad product all day because it comes back to him.
• 1:17:24
  So the coach is not saying a bad product all day.
• 1:17:27
  He's saying a good product. And but I tell is people at
• 1:17:35
  least a human, you know, like they are human, they are human,
• 1:17:39
  they are human being and not, they would not compete, not
• 1:17:42
  every every time they would hit it, you know, like there's
• 1:17:49
  there's a lot of things that comes into into competition, but
• 1:17:57
  you have to be there at the highest moment to kind of
• 1:18:02
  understand it. You see me, I've been to a lot
• 1:18:06
  of finals. I've been to Olympic finals.
• 1:18:08
  I won two World Tigers. I've been, you know, I want
• 1:18:11
  Commonwealth, I want, I want every medals there is to win in
• 1:18:14
  track and field, but I wouldn't pick medal and I was close with
• 1:18:17
  with food. So I've been there and I
• 1:18:20
  experienced it. So, you know, I know how to how
• 1:18:25
  to transfer it to the app. And I tell people all the time
• 1:18:30
  my strength in my coaching, writing workouts and stuff is
• 1:18:32
  easy. I could do that in my sleep.
• 1:18:34
  But it's my communication. Like I know how to communicate
• 1:18:40
  to the app. I know, I know, I know what to
• 1:18:42
  say to them. And I think is the communication
• 1:18:46
  level is the, the biggest thing huge, you know, like for
• 1:18:51
  example, add Quinera, Quinera. I told her Quinera is 3132, you
• 1:18:56
  know, and she's pretty good. She's still growing at a high
• 1:18:59
  level. And we had the, we had the US
• 1:19:04
  trials and Quinera, you know, she's been through a lot and in
• 1:19:08
  her life, in her personal life and stuff.
• 1:19:10
  And we've been to we've been at a trials and she got a little
• 1:19:14
  one. She got a little one in the
• 1:19:17
  finals and she, you know, she looked at me and she was like,
• 1:19:21
  what what you think I got a little one?
• 1:19:23
  I said, listen, if you believe in yourself, I said I believe in
• 1:19:30
  you, but I believe you couldn't, you could make the team from
• 1:19:33
  one. She said, you sure?
• 1:19:35
  I say I'm positive. I'm 100% positive.
• 1:19:38
  I said but to make it in one, you will have to run at least
• 1:19:45
  13-3 the last hundred. I said you, you have to.
• 1:19:50
  I said you would have to win it on the last hundred.
• 1:19:53
  You would have to face like a mad woman.
• 1:19:55
  I said you could be there with them 3635 adding 300.
• 1:20:00
  But if you can't run the last hundred, he doesn't make.
• 1:20:04
  And she was 50. She ran 50.5 from the one and
• 1:20:08
  she ran 13 three the last 100. And I mean, I mean, I coached
• 1:20:15
  some great ones, but in my opinion, this is this one of the
• 1:20:18
  best coaching, this one of the best coaching job I've ever
• 1:20:23
  done. You know, I, I caught some great
• 1:20:26
  people. People are running pretty,
• 1:20:27
  pretty fast. But this from running 50.5 from
• 1:20:31
  the one with this type of competition, that was huge.
• 1:20:36
  You had you had four athletes at this year's Olympics over in
• 1:20:40
  Paris. As as we start to wrap up today,
• 1:20:42
  I'm curious knowing we don't talk XS and OS.
• 1:20:45
  So I'm not when I asked this question.
• 1:20:46
  It's not about the actual, you know, on the track training you,
• 1:20:49
  you coached at a very high level collegiately.
• 1:20:51
  You ran at a high level collegiately and professionally.
• 1:20:54
  So you saw a lot of things, a lot of different coaches and how
• 1:20:58
  they talk and things like that. You coached at a high level.
• 1:21:00
  You were mentored at a very high level with coaches like Coach
• 1:21:03
  Henry and Coach Smart. Now you're doing it at a high
• 1:21:07
  level professionally. So these are athletes post
• 1:21:10
  collegiately. What is what's the difference?
• 1:21:13
  You know, sometimes as coaches, we think of this hierarchy of,
• 1:21:17
  you know, call it high school, college and professional.
• 1:21:20
  And you know, I hear a lot of high school coaches that say I
• 1:21:22
  want to coach collegiately because that's the best and all
• 1:21:24
  that kind of stuff. And it's not best or better.
• 1:21:26
  It's it's, it's different. And then there's a lot of
• 1:21:29
  collegiate coaches that will say, Oh man, I I want that that
• 1:21:32
  big stud so that I can coach professional.
• 1:21:34
  I want to go to Europe and those kind of things.
• 1:21:36
  And it's not it's not better to be a professional coach.
• 1:21:38
  It's a different part of the profession of coaching.
• 1:21:41
  What is that? You've done it at a high level
• 1:21:43
  on both sides. Talk us through what what the
• 1:21:46
  difference is coaching a a post collegiate, you know, someone
• 1:21:49
  who's trying to get to the Olympics and get to the Olympics
• 1:21:51
  versus a high level. You know, they're, they're
• 1:21:53
  trying to win NCAA's and things like that, not X's and O's more
• 1:21:57
  about I hate to go back to the word culture.
• 1:21:59
  Maybe it is culture, but what how you talk to them, things
• 1:22:02
  like that, What's what's the difference or, or is there a
• 1:22:05
  difference? Well, in college, in college now
• 1:22:09
  you're trying to get them in. It's not only about running, but
• 1:22:14
  it's about your academics too. So you're trying to get them for
• 1:22:20
  the next level. You're trying to teach.
• 1:22:23
  It's about, it's all about teaching and, and balancing, you
• 1:22:29
  know, but on the, on the professional level now, now as I
• 1:22:37
  tell people like, OK, in college you have more control.
• 1:22:41
  But now on the professional level, it's a job like in
• 1:22:47
  college, you'll see OK, but we have training at 2:30.
• 1:22:50
  You have to be there at 2:30, you know, and as a professional
• 1:22:55
  now, now you're doing this is your job.
• 1:22:56
  You get paid to do this. So if we have trained at 10:00,
• 1:23:02
  like I don't have to force you to come to train at 10:00, you
• 1:23:06
  know, because this is your job, you know, So in college you're
• 1:23:12
  trying to, because you get kids that come in there 17 to 18
• 1:23:16
  years old. So they're not as mature, but
• 1:23:21
  now you're trying to educate them on how to balance the
• 1:23:27
  academics with the running, with the, with the personal life.
• 1:23:33
  You know, you're trying to kind of teach them how to balance
• 1:23:36
  everything. And now they leave home, You
• 1:23:39
  know, they might be staying with the parents now they leave home
• 1:23:42
  and they come, they come to you. So now they're looking up to you
• 1:23:48
  to guide them though. But as a, the professional
• 1:23:51
  aspect now for me, I don't have to force you to do anything on
• 1:23:56
  the professional level. You know, you, you have to want
• 1:23:59
  to do it. I'm, I'm just all day.
• 1:24:04
  Like if we have a training session, I got the people like
• 1:24:08
  that Training is like a, it's like a ladder step.
• 1:24:13
  We go, we go into phases, you know, and so if we come today
• 1:24:20
  and I said, OK, we have 3, two 50s, you know, and you got to
• 1:24:27
  run 20, you got to run 282726 and we got 6 minutes between
• 1:24:36
  like you have to be able to do it because based on what you do
• 1:24:42
  this week dictate what you do next week, you know, but it's
• 1:24:49
  like in college, I enjoy college when I was coaching in college
• 1:24:55
  because you know, we had, I don't want to say we had the
• 1:25:01
  power, but we had, we could teach, but no, I think it's,
• 1:25:08
  it's just different. I think it's different now when
• 1:25:10
  you are not coaching college. I think the student have this
• 1:25:13
  have more power now. And like even I got the people
• 1:25:19
  out of there. I say when I was coaching in
• 1:25:20
  college, if I have to do a a black start with a female
• 1:25:25
  athlete, I never stood behind. Yeah, I was to to the side
• 1:25:32
  because I don't want nobody to say I was looking at the board
• 1:25:35
  or doing this, you know, So it's just it's different now.
• 1:25:38
  And you know, Cochenry, I talked to him.
• 1:25:41
  I talked to him all the time. You know, probably once a week
• 1:25:44
  or twice a week, he will call and he will talk.
• 1:25:47
  I didn't say sick is just different.
• 1:25:50
  He's just different now because we don't have any the kids this
• 1:25:55
  what they want to do. They could say, you know, they
• 1:25:57
  don't, they're not training today.
• 1:26:00
  And you have to know how how to talk to them.
• 1:26:04
  You know, like if you talk to them in a certain way, they
• 1:26:07
  might say, oh, you put too much pressure on me to win.
• 1:26:10
  So it's just different because I have opportunities to get back
• 1:26:14
  into college. People call all the time.
• 1:26:15
  People call me all the time. I want want to gauge my
• 1:26:18
  interest, you know, but I say you know my coaching style
• 1:26:26
  because you know, I know, I know like I'm I'm a push the athlete,
• 1:26:32
  but if we have 4 minutes recovery, there's a minute.
• 1:26:36
  There's a reason why you have 4 minutes, you know, like you
• 1:26:41
  know, and you know as an athlete, you know how to treat
• 1:26:44
  because you did it. You know, when you, you look at
• 1:26:48
  your watch and you see you are 350 and you untie your, your
• 1:26:54
  entire list and then you turn it back then to get that extra 30
• 1:26:57
  seconds. So, you know, and you say, Nah,
• 1:26:59
  man, we got to get on the line. We got to get, we got to go.
• 1:27:02
  So you, you have to know how to say in college, because if you
• 1:27:08
  say too hash, the people think you put in too much pressure.
• 1:27:12
  So it's it's, you know, it's I just hit the how it is now.
• 1:27:19
  I know, you know, with the transfer portal and the NIL and
• 1:27:23
  all this kind of things, I just hit, I just hit the way it is
• 1:27:27
  because it was maybe some of somebody app is making more
• 1:27:29
  money than the coaches and I just think it's not fun anymore.
• 1:27:34
  How does that this will be our last question here, I think
• 1:27:38
  because that's an interesting subject.
• 1:27:39
  You know, we have those topics when we talk about transfer
• 1:27:42
  portal and now, you know, with the, the new thing, the the 45
• 1:27:45
  cap on the roster, excuse me on the roster and things like that.
• 1:27:49
  You know, I'm always interested in having those conversations
• 1:27:51
  with college coaches. Like how's that going to affect
• 1:27:53
  you and things like that as a professional coach?
• 1:27:56
  How does all of this or not affect you?
• 1:28:00
  Because you, you have to still recruit you, you still need
• 1:28:03
  people to come into your stable to, to make your pay and things
• 1:28:06
  like that. How does any of this, the way
• 1:28:08
  college, specifically college track and field is, is going,
• 1:28:12
  does that affect you positively, negatively?
• 1:28:14
  Or is it still, you know, there's still only 20 athletes a
• 1:28:18
  year that I can even talk to Mike that can, you know, have a
• 1:28:20
  professional career. No, I don't, to be honest with
• 1:28:23
  you. I don't recruit at least to come
• 1:28:25
  to me. Like they reach out to me and if
• 1:28:28
  they if they fit what we do, if they if they fit the group, you
• 1:28:36
  know, then I let them come because, you know, we have a
• 1:28:40
  group that there are no egos and everybody get along pretty fine
• 1:28:43
  and you have to fit with that with what we do.
• 1:28:48
  But a lot of them reach out to me and I tell them, OK, well,
• 1:28:57
  this is where I'm situated. I'm in, I'm in South Carolina.
• 1:29:01
  It's not why the most sexiest place, but you know, if you if
• 1:29:06
  you want to come, then you know, we, we, we will welcome you to
• 1:29:10
  plan. But we have we have a
• 1:29:12
  conversation. I will, I will talk to to Qi
• 1:29:16
  will talk to Matthew and I say, do you know this person?
• 1:29:20
  You know, like what you think and you know, they will do the
• 1:29:23
  research. They will do the research and
• 1:29:26
  they will come out and say, well, yeah, I think they fit.
• 1:29:28
  They fit what we do. Yeah, but no, that's it's just,
• 1:29:36
  it's just for me. I don't try to go out there and
• 1:29:39
  recruit. So it don't really affect me,
• 1:29:42
  but I just don't like it. I don't like it.
• 1:29:45
  I really don't like it that we have student athletes that is
• 1:29:51
  making more money than than coaches.
• 1:29:54
  They may not make more money than the head coaches, but as an
• 1:29:58
  assistant coach, they're making more money than the assistant
• 1:30:01
  coach. I just think I don't like it.
• 1:30:04
  I just think the because I was, you know, coaching, I was having
• 1:30:08
  this conversation the other day and I was telling him that when
• 1:30:12
  I was in LSU, I wasn't making all this money, but there are no
• 1:30:19
  NIL and stuff. But when I got my scholarship
• 1:30:21
  check like it, it helped me. It taught me how to balance
• 1:30:30
  balancement. But no, you get you get just
• 1:30:32
  cash a check and get it out at once.
• 1:30:34
  So you have to pay your rent, you have to pay light, you have
• 1:30:37
  to pay water and you know, you have to buy food.
• 1:30:41
  So you can't just go ahead and buy a pair of jeans or buy a
• 1:30:44
  pair of jar. And so that taught me how to
• 1:30:47
  manage my money. But no, we forget all the I'll
• 1:30:53
  I'll that with the with the student at least.
• 1:30:55
  No, because everybody going to the giving them the more money
• 1:30:59
  and stuff and you know, people driving Range Rovers and BMWs
• 1:31:04
  and stuff. I just there's no more teaching.
• 1:31:07
  Yeah, it's different. Yeah, it's like, like.
• 1:31:10
  I, I like how you put it because I, I would agree.
• 1:31:12
  I, I, I'm cool with the athletes making money.
• 1:31:14
  I, I'm completely cool with that caveat.
• 1:31:17
  However, I absolutely believe our coaches, our track coaches
• 1:31:21
  should be making more money. You know, I, I, I keep a pulse
• 1:31:25
  on the new jobs and, you know, job postings and things like
• 1:31:27
  that. And it just you know, it's
• 1:31:29
  cringe, honestly, when I see jobs for 15,030 thousand and
• 1:31:34
  it's like, guys, we can't. The supply is too big for the
• 1:31:37
  demand, though. Everybody wants to coach.
• 1:31:39
  These are collegiate jobs. Everybody air quotes wants to
• 1:31:42
  coach collegiate and so they'll get their foot in the door at
• 1:31:44
  25,000. I'm like, you can't, you can't
• 1:31:46
  live in you can't live in 2024 on 25,000.
• 1:31:49
  You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't.
• 1:31:51
  So we just have to continue driving up and you know,
• 1:31:54
  Speaking of coach Henry and you know, the salaries he makes and
• 1:31:57
  mouse and Oregon, those help those drive, you know, those
• 1:32:01
  guys making really good money more.
• 1:32:03
  I think they should be making even more.
• 1:32:04
  That drives up our assistance. I'm I'm 100% on board that
• 1:32:08
  Eileen, you know, first of all, congratulations.
• 1:32:11
  You know, I I it struck me about your professional career, your
• 1:32:16
  whole career collegiately professional, no short of
• 1:32:20
  amazing. I mean, it's a Hall of Fame
• 1:32:21
  career, Commonwealth world champs.
• 1:32:24
  It struck me that you didn't get an Olympic medal.
• 1:32:28
  However, what is super interesting makes me super
• 1:32:32
  proud, makes me really see you in, in a light of, of, of
• 1:32:35
  wholeness here. Continuation is you coached an
• 1:32:39
  Olympic gold medalist this year. You may have had other Olympic
• 1:32:41
  medalist we hadn't even talked about, but I know we we talked
• 1:32:44
  specifically about Conera in the four by four.
• 1:32:47
  That's a part of your legacy, my friend.
• 1:32:48
  I know you didn't personally do it as an athlete and I know
• 1:32:52
  learning as much of A competitors you are, I'm sure
• 1:32:54
  that's still grates you a little little bit.
• 1:32:56
  I I, I could see that. But man, you now taking all
• 1:33:00
  those things that people poured into you and taking that now
• 1:33:03
  pouring it out into athletes. You, you're helping people like
• 1:33:07
  Quinera to not have that story that you have of man, I ran
• 1:33:10
  really well and didn't get another.
• 1:33:12
  You've you've taken that story off for her and given her an
• 1:33:15
  amazing legacy. And that, my friend, is a part
• 1:33:18
  of your legacy. And I just want to make sure you
• 1:33:20
  you know that. Yeah, well, I enjoy coaching.
• 1:33:24
  I enjoy the teaching aspect of it.
• 1:33:26
  I could say I don't know if there is anybody over there.
• 1:33:31
  There's none that I know of. And if you probably know so, and
• 1:33:34
  you probably might tell me, I'm proud of of what I did as a
• 1:33:39
  coach. I could say I could tell people,
• 1:33:43
  a coach at the US trials, I coach someone to win 100, to win
• 1:33:48
  the 200, to win the 400, yeah. And to win the 800.
• 1:33:53
  Oh. Yeah, yeah, I had, I had Fred,
• 1:33:58
  Fred 100. What is what is Spearman one the
• 1:34:02
  200, Fred one the 400 and Donovan Brescia one the 800.
• 1:34:09
  So I don't know if there is another coach or there that
• 1:34:14
  completes that, but I'm proud of of every.
• 1:34:20
  That's an interesting trivia question.
• 1:34:22
  Yeah, everything I did, everything I did and everything
• 1:34:28
  I'm going to continue doing because I have one guy that I
• 1:34:31
  work with now and I think he's if once he stays with it, I
• 1:34:36
  think we have another one coming.
• 1:34:39
  Jacory Patterson and and Macho Bowling.
• 1:34:44
  I think I have Macho Bowling and I'm very excited and motivated
• 1:34:51
  because he didn't get selected for the the Olympics and I think
• 1:34:54
  he should have been selected even as a reserve.
• 1:34:58
  So I got the fire inside me. I just don't, I just don't tell
• 1:35:04
  him, but I have it inside of me to prove, to prove that that
• 1:35:09
  he's he was, he was worthy of going.
• 1:35:14
  And we we're going to be on a mission to kind of for 2028 and
• 1:35:19
  I want to start it now. No doubt.
• 1:35:22
  Yeah, I want to start it now. I love it.
• 1:35:24
  That's exciting. You know that's super exciting.
• 1:35:28
  You've done it. So you know, I love when I hear
• 1:35:30
  about coaches having a fire in their belly of like, I have a
• 1:35:33
  mission, not just oh, it's the next year we're going to do as
• 1:35:35
  good as we can, blah, blah, blah, like to have a mission.
• 1:35:38
  That's where really magical things happen that occur.
• 1:35:41
  You know, so that's that's exciting to hear.
• 1:35:44
  Eileen, you are not a social media guy.
• 1:35:48
  You are not a you know, this is your first podcast.
• 1:35:50
  You did awesome, my friend, your journey.
• 1:35:53
  What super, super interesting there, there is a young coach
• 1:35:58
  listening right now that hears this story and is now
• 1:36:02
  understands that there's a path for them to become a
• 1:36:05
  professional coach or a college coach or a great high school
• 1:36:08
  coach. Those are all parts of the
• 1:36:09
  pyramid that we need to make Olympic champion.
• 1:36:11
  So I'm just so grateful for you, man.
• 1:36:13
  You know, the most valuable thing you can ever give me is
• 1:36:16
  your time. So I'm so grateful for your
• 1:36:17
  time, excuse me, grateful for your openness and authenticity.
• 1:36:22
  I, I mean, I, I know this is a, again, this is outside of your
• 1:36:25
  comfort zone. And so I'm just, you did a great
• 1:36:27
  job and I'm just so eternally grateful for you, my friend.
• 1:36:31
  Yeah. Well, I want to say thank you
• 1:36:33
  for giving me the opportunity to share my story and to kind of
• 1:36:37
  put me all day a little bit. Yeah, maybe.
• 1:36:40
  Maybe someone will know who you are now.
• 1:36:44
  Yeah. My friend, your journey is
• 1:36:46
  important and I am humbled that you'd allow me to to share it to
• 1:36:49
  to the world out there. So I'm very grateful.
• 1:36:51
  All right, thank you guys and gals.
• 1:36:53
  Thank you for being here. I told you this was going to be
• 1:36:55
  a banger. You know it's it's always
• 1:36:57
  amazing to see people come from humble beginning, you know,
• 1:37:00
  listening to sports on a radio. That's you know, and he's not
• 1:37:03
  that old. That's let's you know, he's
• 1:37:04
  actually a little younger than I am.
• 1:37:06
  It was a little embarrassing here up to, you know, world
• 1:37:09
  champs and Olympics and lessons learned and now pouring into the
• 1:37:13
  next generation. The guys and gals that you see
• 1:37:15
  at Paris and you'll see in LA that's that's the guys and gals
• 1:37:18
  he's working with and that fire in the belly.
• 1:37:21
  Boy, I tell you what, if if you're a competitor, one of
• 1:37:23
  those athletes, I'd I'd be concerned.
• 1:37:25
  You better get your own fire in your valley or your coach,
• 1:37:27
  because these guys are coming. So thanks for joining us this
• 1:37:29
  week. Join us next week.
• 1:37:30
  We'll have a lot more fun then. All right.
• 1:37:32
  Thanks guys. If it goes to appreciate the
• 1:37:35
  coach, the ones are pouring people most every season needs a
• 1:37:38
  voice of reason speaking the growth you got to prep before
• 1:37:41
  you carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
• 1:37:43
  For those of us stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
• 1:37:46
  zone which you packing for the road.
• 1:37:48
  There's more than one way to go taking notes that's paying
• 1:37:51
  you're told it ain't practice if your purpose ain't Claire, it
• 1:37:54
  can't happen until you listen with both is you can't mentor
• 1:37:57
  without a mentor of experience. You can reinvent those years
• 1:38:01
  Every plan's got to stand and deliver to and the price
• 1:38:04
  sacrifice can you give up you. It's a choice and the fight not
• 1:38:07
  a win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
• 1:38:09
  Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to it's all
• 1:38:12
  about why. You don't know till you know who
• 1:38:14
  you are inside 6,000,000 Waste of time choose none so we all
• 1:38:18
  cross finish line. The work ain't done so we learn
• 1:38:21
  from the experts but y'all got to put in the leg work.
• 1:38:24
  Your athletics is the network. It's all about connections put
• 1:38:27
  together for the profession. To every track coach could be
• 1:38:30
  blessing.