Latest / The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast / HARBAUGH BLEW IT! 0-5 AND SEASON IS OVER | Chargers vs Broncos Wk 5 Recap

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HARBAUGH BLEW IT! 0-5 AND SEASON IS OVER | Chargers vs Broncos Wk 5 Recap · The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast

0:02
Who's got it better than us? No one! It's being
0:07
chased, thrown on the lawn, and it is caught
0:10
down! Keenan Allen! What a great goal! My goal
0:13
is not to break, my goal is to make you harder
0:15
to break. Number six! Number six! Touchdown!
0:25
This is me, takes a shot downfield, has Nighton!
0:31
Touchdown! Chargers! Grab your lunchboxes and
0:36
go attack this game with an enthusiasm unknown
0:38
to mankind. It ain't about how hard you hit.
0:46
It's about how hard you can get hit and keep
0:49
moving forward. Rocky Balboa said it and right
0:51
now the Thunderdown Underchargers podcast is
0:54
living it. Welcome to the show, bold fam. I am
0:57
absolutely furious and I know you are too. A
0:59
23 -17 home loss to the Denver Broncos leaves
1:02
us staring at an inexcusable 0 -5 start to the
1:05
20 -26 season. Is it over? The team had a 17
1:10
-10 lead in the fourth quarter and once again
1:12
the wheels completely fucking fell off. Jack
1:15
Allister, welcome to you both. A new week and
1:18
more creative ways for the charges to let another
1:20
one through the fingertips, literally. Jack,
1:24
how are you, mate? Uh, four hour - Audio. For
1:36
the audio listeners, Jack's just held up a couple
1:39
of placards. His silence is protest, apparently.
1:42
So I'll go to you, Allister, the ever optimist.
1:45
How are you feeling now? You said last week that
1:48
oh and five, it is completely over. It's completely
1:52
over. Put us in the bin as Jack's placard says,
1:56
I'm embarrassed listeners. I'm embarrassed because
1:59
the charges are so bad. They've turned Andy and
2:03
me into gibbering superstitious imbeciles before
2:07
the game. I'm going over to Andy's getting ready
2:10
to bring my libations, a few beers. And Andy
2:13
goes, Maybe we're losing these games because
2:16
we're drinking craft beers. And I said, maybe
2:21
that's right. Harpo's a blue collar guy. Maybe
2:23
we've got to throw the yuzu lager and the wattle
2:25
seed and honey golden ale in the bin. And let's
2:29
just drink the most standard imported or cheapish
2:32
lager you can imagine. So we did. And the result
2:36
was the exact same. So I don't know what we can
2:39
try. Jack, this season has been diabolical. It
2:43
has been incredibly difficult to cover, probably
2:46
difficult to listen to as well out there, although
2:48
we appreciate you. Where to from here, my friend.
2:53
Nah, I'm not going to leave my mouth shut for
2:55
that long. It's too big and full of too much
2:57
stupid shit to say as well. Uh, yeah, this is
3:00
now becoming a ruining of my week, actually.
3:04
Uh, my partner rightly will always stick by me.
3:08
But she goes, you know why I hate the charges
3:10
and you know why I hate them losing because it
3:12
actually affects my life too. I was, uh, this
3:15
is the, this is the lowest I've been in my fandom
3:17
for the charges since we've started this podcast.
3:19
Uh, I'm, I'm quite negative. Um, kind of now
3:23
just come to the realization that the season
3:25
is, is fairly much over or it is over. Um, and
3:28
what we're seeing, I thought was even though
3:31
the result was the same, Andy, Uh, the way we
3:34
got there was actually quite different this time.
3:37
Uh, and something that I never, uh, never thought
3:40
I'd say, um, some decisions that no doubt. And
3:44
you've got your little referee top on there that
3:46
you're going to, uh, throw a few questions through
3:49
Alistair and my way, uh, very, very disappointing
3:53
and very sad. For sure. You have to go back to
3:56
2003 to, uh, a season where the Chargers started
3:59
Owen five. So it's a long time since we've been
4:03
in this position and the fall from the ceiling
4:06
chat, the expectation chat has been, uh, catastrophic,
4:11
uh, and just the absolute opposite of meteoric,
4:15
maybe the meteor plundering into and through
4:18
the surface of the earth, those kinds of areas.
4:24
Let's look at it analytically. Jim Harbaugh has
4:26
taken ownership of that failed fourth and one
4:29
sneak, but there's late game execution. It's
4:33
brutal. It's brutal. It's confusing. Justin Herbert
4:37
is under a mountain of pressure behind this rookie
4:41
line and the late turnovers again are killers.
4:45
We have to address the scheme, but there is some
4:49
optimism, I guess, or a silver lining, maybe
4:51
not optimism, but Um, from, you know, all the
4:55
discussion we had last week about who is at fault
4:58
in a hierarchy, uh, Harbaugh says that he and
5:01
ownership are in this fight together to turn
5:03
this thing around, which is a whole other sort
5:07
of kettle of fish that we can dive into. The
5:10
talent is, is there in patches. Uh, and this
5:14
third quarter surge showed that we, you know,
5:16
we have a bit of fight and, uh, we can play clean
5:19
football. Um, we just got to keep moving forward,
5:22
right? So, uh, yeah, I totally agree with you,
5:27
Jack. I'm as, as flat as a pancake watching this.
5:30
And the worst thing, uh, for our US, uh, listeners,
5:34
the worst thing for Aussies is that this happens
5:37
on a Monday morning. This is the start of the
5:39
week and we wait, Al and I, uh, at the moment
5:43
haven't been able to watch a game live, but you
5:45
know, we'll wait sort of 10 hours after the fact
5:48
or eight hours after the fact to get excited
5:50
throughout the whole day. And then this happens
5:53
and we're watching this sort of thing. And let's
5:58
get right into it. I've got the ref shirt on
6:00
because there's varying differences in belief,
6:06
cognition, all these things, the fourth and one.
6:10
We're going to start there. Okay. I think so.
6:15
It's the biggest talking point of the whole game.
6:17
No, I want to let, I want to let Jack go cause
6:18
Jack has a good feel in the moment. He's a passionate
6:21
man. He's an emotional man. And tell us how you
6:25
were feeling at that time, what you'd been saying
6:27
beforehand. And then what was clearly a massive
6:30
swing in the win probability of the game. Yeah,
6:35
listen. And I'll let you talk about the numbers,
6:37
but as far as I'm concerned, you can stick the
6:39
wind probability in the bin in that conversation.
6:42
I, I don't really care about any of the numbers.
6:45
We're going to need a bigger bin. Yeah, we're
6:48
going to, we're going to need a bigger, we're
6:49
going to need a bigger bin. There's a couple
6:50
of things that I've been thinking about this
6:52
over and over since it happened because I cannot
6:56
remember a more egregious decision in the moment
6:59
when I'm sitting there going, What are you doing?
7:02
It just felt wrong. And remember we've lived
7:03
through this daily era of go for it, go for it,
7:06
go for it. There's a couple of things here. Whatever
7:09
the numbers say, Alistair listeners, you're going
7:11
to hear Alistair say, it's actually a really
7:12
good decision to go for it and go and fair enough
7:14
to, but you know what the numbers don't show.
7:16
They don't show that there were more Denver fans
7:18
in the stands and there were charges fans. They
7:20
don't show that Justin Herbert was hit pretty
7:23
badly on the, on the, on the last drive before
7:25
that play. They don't show that the offensive
7:27
line was gassed. They don't show that. Bow nicks
7:30
on the tape, Alistair was running for his life,
7:32
most of his game and throwing check down after
7:34
check down. It doesn't show that Peyton was probably
7:36
getting really annoyed on the sideline. It doesn't
7:39
show that the fact is that Harbaugh has been
7:43
so, so sort of black and white flipping and flopping.
7:46
When do you go for it? When did there's no continuity?
7:48
The players don't know. There's the, the numbers
7:50
don't show the lack of confidence from the players.
7:53
The numbers don't show that Mike McDaniel was
7:55
going, Oh, we're going for it. Okay. I didn't
7:57
know. It's just all wrong. And the numbers can
8:00
say, Hey, you go for it. Your wind probability
8:02
goes up. I just thought if it was less than six
8:04
minutes to go, I'm probably defending it a little
8:06
more. 10 minutes, the only, the numbers also
8:09
don't show the only time that the Broncos are
8:12
scoring is on a short field that we've given
8:14
them because of a bad decision or a bad mistake.
8:17
So whatever the numbers say, fine. If you purely
8:20
want to go from an analytical standpoint, you
8:21
can, but that's not what good art or good coaching
8:25
or the quantitative does not show what is happening
8:29
in the wider picture of the stadium. You don't
8:31
go to a Van Gogh and try and look at the paint
8:33
that he's using in the dots. to appreciate the
8:36
art. You got to take it in whole, and then you
8:38
do your analysis. And I'm going, what is a $16
8:41
million coach being paid to do? That is the decision
8:44
that he's making in that moment that I can almost
8:47
feel. And that almost every other pundit, and
8:49
I know there's going to be catchphrases and people
8:51
use it because it's a good sound bite, but every
8:53
single other pundits going, what are you doing?
8:56
There is no feel there was absolutely no feel
8:58
in that time, in that moment. The play call is
9:01
something else. I don't know what the hell was
9:03
going on for me. It was disastrous. It was negligent
9:06
coaching. And that really, really worries me.
9:09
Alistair diatribe finished. Excellent diatribe
9:12
like eight to 10 fantastic points. And yeah,
9:15
if you're going to sit back and Appreciate that
9:18
work of art you can end up chopping off your
9:20
ear at the end of it because it was correct it
9:23
was it was pretty. Well it was pretty disgusting
9:28
and lead to even worse things I wanna explain
9:32
what my take is which is an annoyingly nuanced
9:35
take because my take is not he should have gone
9:38
for it and he was right to go for it my take
9:41
is it's probably a finally balanced decision
9:44
so that. Either way, it's not egregious that
9:48
he went for it because I feel like we've got
9:50
past the point where going for it on fourth and
9:53
one is egregious. You trust your offense to get
9:55
the one yard. If it was a fourth and three or
9:58
a fourth and five. So I don't believe it to have
10:01
been an egregious decision. I basically think
10:04
he would have made a decision based on what he
10:07
thought was a chance to put his foot down on
10:10
the opposition when you are up by seven points,
10:12
keep that drive going, and finish the game with
10:15
some confidence. So I like that he kind of backed
10:19
the team in there, but you've made point after
10:23
point after point where the numbers are one thing,
10:25
your win probability is one thing, and I don't
10:27
even have access to the numbers, right? I assume
10:30
that the Chargers analytics model in Harbaugh's
10:33
ear would have been like, hey, we think this
10:36
is worth going for it because The math makes
10:40
sense and I've done a four -minute post about
10:41
on the math separately. You can see it on Twitter
10:44
and YouTube I won't go into it there. I agree
10:46
Jack where with what you say is The decision
10:49
to go for it is only one part of the equation
10:52
The other is when you go for it What's the play
10:54
call and I don't think a QB sneak through the
10:58
a gap when the defense is ready for it and shifts
11:00
is your best way of converting that fourth and
11:03
one. Harbaugh said, when I saw that, I should
11:05
have called the time out. And I agree with that.
11:07
That would have been a better outcome than running
11:09
a play that you're really worried isn't going
11:10
to work against the defensive front. And I do
11:14
also agree with you, Jack, when you say, I don't
11:18
believe in the ends justifying the means, but
11:21
in a way, the numbers is one thing and then you
11:24
need to make the gut call. And to an extent,
11:26
if you think your team's going to get that first
11:28
down and they don't, That is kind of on you.
11:31
You need to have that feel that, uh, is my team
11:34
going to convert this fourth and one, or is it
11:36
better trusting the defense at this point in
11:38
the game? And I do agree with you, Jack. The
11:40
defense has been by far the more dependable side
11:44
of the ball. So, but just, just let me give you
11:48
some numbers then. Okay. So far, we'll sit in
11:51
there going, all right, I got my numbers through
11:52
week five, EPA per play. LA charges are the last
11:55
in the league at negative 0 .22. We're 32nd success
11:58
rate. We're 28th. Okay. APA per pass is 30th
12:02
APA per rush. We're 26th in the league. Flip
12:05
it over and you're going APA per play. The, the
12:08
charges defense seventh in the league success
12:10
rate tied six in the league. And then APA per
12:13
rush is tied fifth. And then we're tied. We're
12:16
tied 17th in, in, uh, in APA per pass. So the
12:21
numbers there say, you know what? I don't trust
12:24
and the game itself you'd like the offense has
12:27
been terrible. No no no like these other number
12:30
is the charges offensive scored on two out of
12:33
the last three drives gone on long touchdown
12:35
drives so I think maybe those numbers are in
12:37
his head a little bit saying our offense was
12:39
starting to move the ball we only need one yard
12:41
jeez we got a bad spot actually bloody hell I
12:44
reckon Herbert actually got it. We're going to
12:47
just keep them on the field and get this first
12:48
down. I think that's probably in his head as
12:51
well, because if the offense was playing like
12:53
they were in the first quarter, would he have
12:54
gone for it? I don't know. He was just trying
12:56
to insert himself in the game, Alistair. He was
12:58
throwing challenge flags. He was wanting to influence
13:03
the game. I cannot remember. I don't think I've
13:05
ever seen, not that I know of follow Jim Hubble's
13:08
career closely, but he felt like he was trying
13:11
to insert himself. He was going to make the call
13:14
that was going to... take the team over the line
13:16
and get the win. And I think that's bad coaching.
13:19
That's fair enough. Fair enough. And to bring
13:22
Andy into it, part of the reason why he goes
13:25
for it there is he thinks if we get it great,
13:28
we're in prime position. If we don't Denver still
13:31
needs to score and then it's a tight game and
13:34
we've got the ball back on offense and off we
13:36
go. It's a tight game. That's why I'm going for
13:38
it. But after that point, Andy, what the heck
13:42
happened? What the heck happened in terms of
13:46
we're saying Justin Herbert fumbling the ball
13:48
on a second down and then missing it, missing
13:51
an open receiver and almost fumbling it again.
13:53
And then the interception for those who believe
13:56
in momentum. And if you want to have a 30 minute
13:58
discussion on whether momentum is real, that's
14:00
a whole separate podcast. That's the, what is
14:02
the momentum podcast? You can join us on that
14:05
separately. We won't do that here, but geez,
14:08
if Jack's point could be made any stronger. the
14:11
team made it for him by actually totally shitting
14:15
the bed after Harbaugh made that decision. Yeah.
14:19
Uh, that was obviously the turning point. That
14:23
was the just colossal momentum killer, uh, in
14:27
that fourth quarter. And what it did was it,
14:30
it just obliterated the trust that Herbert that
14:34
I think the offense entirely had. with within
14:39
the the whole team not necessarily just with
14:41
Harbaugh, but Like what's the personnel grouping
14:46
in that fourth and one you've got Darius Davis?
14:49
Almost in the wing off the off the line and then
14:52
on the other side. You've got MVS and Theo Weiss
14:55
who don't even motion Like a Marion Hampton doesn't
14:59
even help Charlie Cola kind of pushed to the
15:02
side, but kind of missed Got blocked blocked
15:05
out of it. So It's not even like you've telegraphed
15:11
to the Denver defense that we're sneaking it.
15:15
And who's pushing Herbert behind Herbert? Have
15:17
you ever watched it? That's exactly what I'm
15:19
trying to say. That's exactly what I'm trying
15:21
to say. There is just no cohesion in the stance
15:26
to go for it, which if you get it and you should
15:30
get one yard, like the way that the offense had
15:32
been playing in the third quarter. Sure. I think
15:35
the drive before Herbert gets banged up, but
15:37
You've got to be you've got to be positive and
15:40
say hey look Mims is a great returner. So we're
15:44
not great on special teams kick coverage. So
15:47
let's let's keep that in mind Jack, believe me.
15:50
I'm with you. I I just not to the extreme extent
15:54
I think the feel for the game just sort of wasn't
15:57
right and Kicking it back and letting the defense
16:00
You know, make bow nicks go the length of the
16:03
field. They scored off drives of 40, 41, 16 and
16:06
22 yards to the goal line. Like they were the
16:09
field positions that they scored from the length
16:11
of the drive. So you're risking it by, you know,
16:15
being one of those numbers or you kick it back
16:18
and make it 80. And I just don't think the feels
16:21
right. And the cohesion and the plan between
16:25
Harbour and McDaniel is gelling at all. We spoke
16:28
at the start of the year. I also, I also don't
16:30
think the numbers actually would have been that
16:32
favorable. That's why I'm staying quiet. Like
16:34
the amount you increase your win probability
16:36
by getting that first down versus the amount
16:39
your win probability drops when you, if you go
16:43
for it and don't get it, I doubt it would have
16:46
been like a clear go for it decision analytically.
16:49
I reckon it would have been a line ball at best.
16:52
What makes it so egregious for me is what is
16:56
his role? So what is he doing? If you're not
16:59
meant to bring 30 years of experience into a
17:01
point, it's the season on the line, dude. Like
17:05
you've gone 0 -4. It's going to go one, like
17:08
that is the moment where you're being paid as
17:10
one of the highest paid coaches. So what does
17:14
that say about the whole organization? That's
17:16
what makes it so egregious for me. And you know
17:18
what guys, NGS actually credited the failed sneak
17:20
with plus 12 percentage points to Denver's wind
17:23
probability. We have to talk about Justin Herbert
17:25
here because Alan's strip sack actually added
17:28
plus 21 points. So that shifted their wind probability
17:31
to 50 % to 71. So out of all those plays, it
17:35
was the strip sack that was even more damaging.
17:40
So I'm glad you said that. Well, it's, but it's
17:44
so, but again, it's preceded by this decision
17:46
and at all, it really felt. And again, we're
17:49
not talking about momentum, but it really felt
17:51
in that moment. I just saw everything and felt
17:54
everything shift. It doesn't happen as a fan.
17:56
Often we're so removed. We are so removed from
17:59
what's going on, but I felt my stomach drop there.
18:02
I absolutely did. And that's why I'm probably
18:04
so emotional about it. Cause they go. Well, we're
18:07
hiring this guy to make good decisions, right?
18:09
We're hiring this guy to make sure that there's
18:11
great communication on the sideline. Everything's
18:13
cohesive up until this point. It is an, I just,
18:16
the reason why I'm ashamed, I'm ashamed. That's
18:18
what, there he goes. I'm ashamed. I support this
18:20
team because I thought I had trust in this process
18:23
and something I think egregious has happened
18:26
off the field that we don't know. I'm not going
18:28
to pontificate on that Alistair, but it just,
18:31
it just was really, really, really damaging.
18:34
Anyway, this is what it is. It is. Earlier in
18:38
the game, I mean, it will be interesting to see
18:40
how this team under McDaniel and Harbaugh now
18:44
rallies in response to this 0 -5 start, because
18:47
with all the Mac rumours before the game, I'm
18:50
quite impressed with how the defense managed
18:52
to manage that, manage that extraneous noise
18:56
and come out and put... beat down on the Denver
18:59
Broncos offense. Maybe we'd pivot before talking
19:02
about the offensive words into some positive
19:04
stuff, Andy. I'll, I'll set you up for it. Chris
19:06
O 'Leary play calling again. He's mate. We we're
19:10
looking at some Mike McDonald like feel with
19:13
what he's doing out there. What, how are you
19:15
feeling about it? We keep saying this. He just
19:18
keep, he continues to grow weak, uh, and wait
19:22
week after week. And honestly, like If it wasn't
19:28
for his growth and feel of games and feel of
19:31
situations and tendencies and things like that,
19:35
then we wouldn't even be close to saying that
19:38
charges are in these games. There's, you see
19:43
when there is like a big issue, there are a couple
19:46
of blown coverage instances. And when the, when
19:52
the defense stuffs up, like it, it's very attackable.
19:55
Bonyx had plenty of opportunities to hit up free
19:59
receivers, but is just not a good quarterback
20:02
and freaked out and bailed out and threw the
20:07
ball away, or check downs as you said, Jack.
20:10
So, but hey, credit a lot of those instances,
20:13
the coverage was so tight, like Cortland Sutton's
20:15
not getting separation, Jalen Waddell not getting
20:19
that much separation. So just great. And then
20:22
Akeem Mezador, boy. That was a, that was a little
20:26
bit of a breakout for him. He was, uh, he was
20:30
awesome. He was everywhere. And I know he probably
20:32
didn't mean it, but the, the wherewithal to bring
20:35
Bo Nix down and kind of let him surf on his back.
20:38
So Tully could make that strip sack. And that's
20:41
another name that is going to be massive, especially
20:43
if anything kind of snowballs with the Mac chat
20:46
about moving on, getting traded. Uh, a lot of
20:51
fans are calling for a total. Burn the barn down
20:55
and start again. So, you know, I think Mac would
20:57
top that list of teams to go and the way that
21:00
we're heading, we're not going to give him that
21:01
fairy tale finish. So to a very decorated career.
21:05
So I'm in the mindset of, Hey, if that's what
21:07
he wants, let him go. Um, poor, poor Chris O
21:10
'Leary, right? Like he's doing everything. He's
21:13
going, Oh God, I'm going to learn so much off
21:14
Mike McDaniel. Okay. How he comports himself
21:17
and how he calls, I'm going to learn so much.
21:19
I'm going back in Harbaugh state. This is going
21:20
to be great. I know the players is going to be
21:22
really good. Hey, I might make some mistakes
21:23
as he did in week one. We were critical of him.
21:25
But since then, I feel like every single game
21:28
he's gone, okay, they're going to beat us by
21:31
doing this. And we're going to do our best to
21:33
take, he took away JSN. He essentially, I know
21:36
that, um, Jeannie had a lot on the ground, but
21:39
the Raiders were kind of like, they were doing
21:41
well to contain it for most of that game. And
21:43
this guy's turnaround going, I'm sort of being
21:45
forced Alistair to make these great calls because
21:48
I kept getting, I keep getting put in terrible
21:51
situations by this guy that's come off. Apparently
21:54
he's an offensive genius. I've got tight ends
21:56
drop on the ball. I've got tight ends. Okay.
21:58
All right, let's go. We got to try and stop them.
22:00
So. He's doing it without Derwin James, Dante
22:03
Jackson, like he's doing it without big names.
22:07
So, uh, and Rodney Shelley, he was out too, another
22:10
big name. The thing is, Alistair is the, so again,
22:14
I guess, you know, is the excuse that the fact
22:16
that the defense kind of let it go a bit late
22:19
in the game and it's, it's kind of the, the tail
22:21
of the tape, but what did you see on the tape
22:24
today was the, was the late perimeter gains that
22:27
Denver gets, you know, those, especially after
22:29
that. fourth and one fail. Was it like a fit
22:32
issue? What did you see? Was it Denver's blocking
22:34
just got on top of us a bit or was it something
22:37
else? Like what actually happened to the defense
22:39
later in the game? My take on it and my caveat
22:42
is for the first half of this game, I'm watching
22:45
every single play two or three times, four times.
22:48
I'm really energized to the last eight minutes
22:50
of the game after a couple of those offensive
22:52
turnovers. It's a bit of the old fricking fast
22:54
forward. So, but, but it was enough, it was enough
22:58
to say, I did think there was some run finish
23:00
issues because I thought at that moment, perhaps
23:03
the defense entered into, we need to make a play
23:06
mode. And I do think maybe some guys, Del Sean
23:10
Phillips, maybe a couple of others, slightly
23:14
dropped the ball slightly. You know, they tried
23:17
to maybe shoot a gap or tried to make a play
23:19
because they're realizing we need a turn over
23:21
here, which is completely understandable. Because
23:23
just time and time and time and time again, they
23:27
forced the Broncos to punt. They, you know, they
23:33
put pressure on Bo Nix. They forced him into
23:35
terrible decisions. The way the defense is communicating
23:39
is just fantastic on the back end. You see little
23:41
hand signals from the DBs. If they need to ban
23:44
Joe and pass off in man coverage, they do it.
23:46
Taib's still on that Troy Franklin tackle and
23:50
stop in the first quarter. That's what happened
23:51
on that play. Chris O 'Leary's got a sensational
23:54
feel for blitzing now. They maybe blitzed 11
23:57
times, but it was always just when they weren't
24:00
expecting it. You know, second and seven. All
24:02
of a sudden six players come and bro next is
24:05
like oh crap I'm gonna bail out of the pocket
24:07
throw it out. The first down of the fourth quarter
24:11
we play cover one we almost never play cover
24:13
one cover one man and same thing happened next
24:16
kind of panicked and there was one way on the
24:19
type you think cheese that could have been a
24:21
touchdown because he takes the aggressive. Six
24:23
man pressure. and Nix kind of throws it off to
24:26
the right and there are three Broncos there,
24:27
one of them just sitting there and it could have
24:29
been a touchdown, but the pressure made Nix throw
24:32
inaccurately. O 'Leary knew his guy just like
24:34
he knew last week he could do some things with
24:36
Sam Darnold and welcoming back Delvin Tomlinson
24:39
I thought was really nice for the run game because
24:41
it allows us to rotate between our four down
24:45
linemen and five down linemen because with four
24:47
down linemen Tomlinson can basically eat up two
24:49
gaps and it allows us to play more of our quarter
24:52
shell so mate I'm with you Jack O 'Leary sitting
24:54
here looking at the other guys going come on
24:59
like come on We've got Akim Mezador, a rookie
25:03
playing great. I've got Dean Leonard on the field.
25:05
Like they're all these guys who, who. Genesis
25:07
Smith. Yeah. Like really good by the defense.
25:12
Like very few things not to talk about is maybe
25:14
penalties, Andy. Penalties might've been the
25:16
only thing where a few times, and it was usually
25:18
those backend of the roster players anyway, like
25:21
a Dean Leonard being targeted. And then, you
25:24
know, otherwise a stellar performance. Yeah,
25:27
I think the Broncos ran heavy personnel about
25:30
39 % of the time. So whether they had a sixth
25:33
offensive lineman in, or they were using Nate
25:36
Adkins in line. So Sean Payton essentially, rather
25:41
than spreading it out and challenging the secondary,
25:44
really just out -harbored Harbaugh on the ground
25:48
game. They ran the ball 55 % of the time. And
25:52
yeah, it was only late when the sort of The Chargers
25:56
front got gassed that, you know, Dobbins was
25:58
able to get out. There were a few of those...
26:01
I don't think they were particularly good or
26:04
efficient in their looks, Denver. The EPA with
26:09
their 12 personnel was in the negatives, but
26:12
yeah, look, they just, they avoided crucial mistakes
26:16
and they let our self -inflicted wounds kind
26:20
of hand them the game and allow them to... keep
26:23
possession. So whilst it was a good effort, we
26:25
do still have to remember that offense as well,
26:29
there's just so much limitation more so on offense
26:35
with what you can do with who is not able to
26:38
suit up and play. And I'll leave it to you guys
26:42
later in the week to talk about who goes to Travis
26:44
Kelsey. But you know, it's another one where
26:47
we're missing Derwin James big time. But incredible
26:51
effort. We're not really in this game. Like honestly,
26:55
you wouldn't really notice that Derwin was missing
26:57
until late in the game, perhaps, but it was mainly
27:00
guys like a Boigby finally getting blown off
27:02
the ball by some really good offensive linemen
27:04
that the Broncos have with Miners and McGlinchey
27:07
and they're no slouches up front. And like I
27:10
listened to you guys did a stellar job, I will
27:12
say, on your preview podcast for the Broncos
27:14
game. Can you imagine with all that time you
27:16
guys are talking about Harvey and Dobbins out
27:18
of the backfield and Baddei, they had three catches,
27:20
the running backs out of the backfield. Waddell
27:22
didn't do much of anything to hurt us. Cortland
27:25
-Sudden didn't do much of anything to hurt us.
27:27
What hurt us is the offense and Mike McDaniel
27:31
and field position and coaching decisions and
27:34
using timeouts early in the game when we don't
27:37
need to use them. So we've got none left at the
27:39
end of the game, Jack. So let's flip to the offense.
27:41
I might start with, I want to throw in a question
27:44
because I had a few. All right, I'll go with
27:49
this one. As we talk about the offense, we're
27:51
now on five, Jack. How do you feel as a fan?
27:54
Should fans want wins or losses from here? Oh,
27:58
that's a goodie. Right into Jack's strikes. Listen,
28:04
well, we're flipping it, right? Because we expected
28:07
all the issues that Mike McDaniel is having is
28:10
going to be O 'Leary because he took Jesse Minter's
28:13
playbook, you know, took it to, was it, uh, what
28:16
was it? Western Michigan. What was his college
28:17
he went to? Eastern Michigan. Western Michigan,
28:19
you know, had to learn the hard way that he can't
28:22
do it. He's going to come like he came back and
28:24
we were all like, Oh, is he going to have the
28:26
ability to coach these guys again? As, um, is
28:28
he going to make the system shift or how is he
28:30
going to change it? And is it going to work?
28:32
And is Matt going to be able to, he's fine. The
28:36
other side, I just still feel like he's completely
28:40
bamboozled. Everyone is completely bamboozled.
28:43
Even one of the commentators that I forget which
28:45
one it was. They were interviewing Trey Harris
28:47
earlier in the week. And Trey Harris made the
28:50
admission that he's never ever had so, so, so
28:54
many words in a play call before he's sitting
28:56
there going, this is really, really complex.
28:59
This is really hard. One of the hardest things
29:00
that I'm finding is that there's possibly upwards
29:03
of 10 or 12 different verbs and combinations
29:07
of what we have to remember. And it, I thought,
29:12
Alistair, you watch the tape, but I thought that
29:14
the offense did an okay job with what they had
29:18
for up until that fourth down sneak. The Vidal
29:20
run was great. I mean, Weas has done more in
29:23
one game than Darius Davis has done in his whole
29:25
entire charges career. So it looked like, it
29:29
looked like McDaniel tried to do some things,
29:35
but to go off your, do we want wins or losses?
29:41
What's better for the Chargers? Is it tanking
29:43
in a high draft pick or is it better to be winning
29:46
games? What is better? for the organization because
29:49
that's what it comes down to when we watch games.
29:51
Should we be barracking for losses and a high
29:53
draft pick or a wins more important to your organization
29:57
and everything else? I don't want to say anything
29:59
and admit anything because if I say yes, let's
30:02
back for losses, get a high draft pick. What
30:03
happens to the coaches? Because all of a sudden
30:06
we fire another coordinator. The pressure goes
30:08
on hardball. We get another GM. All of a sudden
30:10
we're back at square one. Can't attract free
30:12
agents. We're starting, we're starting back again.
30:14
Great. Herbert, you know, maybe Herbert gets
30:16
unhappy, wants to go Mac goes. So like, I don't
30:20
want that. Like I don't want Jim Harbaugh to
30:23
be fired, even though I've been critical of him.
30:25
Do I want Mike McDaniel fired? No. Because do
30:27
I want Justin Herbert with a fucking 15th offensive
30:29
coordinator in 10 years? No. So I'd love to just
30:34
see some, some progress. I mean, Harbaugh keeps
30:37
saying progress, progress, progress. And I thought,
30:40
If I'm being honest with myself, as I'm watching
30:42
the offense, I thought for what the unit had
30:45
on the field for rookies and Cole strange hasn't
30:48
happened in 50 years or something like that,
30:50
that there was progress. I went, okay, it was
30:53
good seeing Burke out there. Okay. There was
30:54
some pretty good run fits. Okay. I'm still a
30:56
little bit worried about a Marion Hampton and
30:59
Gadsden, but no, I don't want to see tanking.
31:03
I think in my heart, I would like to see competition.
31:06
That's that's That that's, that's where I sit.
31:08
Where do you sit? Where do you sit? Good answer.
31:11
And I do want to get into the offense. Where
31:14
I sit is I think I've watched enough sport and
31:17
NFL to believe that the tanking doesn't really
31:20
work. I mean, if you're there and you have a
31:22
hydrograph pick and you get a Jeremiah Smith
31:24
or a Leonard Moore, you're not upset about that,
31:27
right? You're fantastic. But I do think winning
31:29
is cultural. And almost it becomes endemic if
31:33
you develop this losing culture and all these
31:36
teams like the Browns and the Jets and whomever
31:38
else they can have all the picks one two and
31:41
three in the world it hasn't really. brought
31:43
them out of the doldrums. I'd rather a sustained
31:45
culture of winning games because I do think you
31:47
have these three win seasons, you have a lot
31:50
of departing free agents, you struggle to attract
31:52
incoming free agents. People already complain
31:55
about the California 50 % state income tax. Well,
31:58
good luck acquiring free agents where they've
32:00
got to pay that and the team sucks and they don't
32:02
have a head coach and I'd rather us eke our way
32:05
to eight wins and then draft in the middle of
32:07
the round. But yeah, on your point, Jack, I think
32:10
if you're being fair, you would say there were
32:12
signs of improvement, especially given what was
32:16
a depleted offense and a good defense. Denver
32:18
does have a good defense. I know they were missing
32:20
Satan and Riley Moss, but they still get pressure
32:23
with their fronts. I thought Harky and Burke
32:26
in the running game were solid. We expected Burke
32:29
would have some issues in past protection and
32:30
he did. Okay, great. He's a six foot, eight and
32:33
a half. Rookie in his first proposter. He did
32:36
some okay things as well. I agree. He really
32:39
did. Kola's return was good for the run blocking
32:41
for sure. Before Trey Harris got any fumbled
32:45
a ball that I've got no idea how he fumbled it.
32:47
Probably because his actual fractured arm hit
32:49
the ground. Like perhaps. Trey Harris who has
32:53
actually just quietly not been blocking that
32:55
well this year. I thought he had his best run
32:57
blocking game before he got injured. Another
33:00
freaking injury. And... You got these glimpses,
33:04
Jack, the Kimani Fidel touchdown was just unbelievable
33:07
effort showing the heart and will and want to
33:11
of the team, as Jim Harbaugh would say, a nicely
33:14
designed red zone touchdown to fucky rucky Andy,
33:17
where everyone thought we were throwing together.
33:21
Really great play design. Yeah, great play design.
33:24
Lost him. No one, no one is thinking that they're
33:26
going to throw that ball to Rucci. They were,
33:27
they doubled Gadsden to the flat. So that was
33:29
nice. Everyone bit up on the run too, because
33:32
it was a play fake under center to Hampton. Why
33:35
though, I'm not getting too excited about the
33:36
offense is because what I'm trying to see is
33:40
evidence that Mike McDaniel is actually a star
33:43
in the making and he will eventually get there.
33:45
And I see too many issues of that feel that Harbaugh
33:50
lacked Jack. Where i'm wondering like i've got
33:55
a few written down the some of the run calls
33:59
asking plays to pull in split zone or or you
34:03
know where they ran gap they'd run a trap run
34:06
you're asking ruchi to come all the way across
34:08
the formation and block. Dondre Tillman on the
34:12
other edge or you're asking Cole strange to run
34:16
across and block a guy and we saw multiple runs
34:19
blown up in the backfield Hampton did not have
34:22
a chance and I put that on run scheme and just
34:25
asking too much of players who aren't good enough
34:28
to execute it. There's one I posted on Twitter
34:31
with Trey actions play at Trey Harris's route,
34:34
being behind the line on a play action and in
34:36
front of it. And he got pushed into traffic because
34:39
the offensive line got knocked back off the snap.
34:42
And I've never seen a coach run the ball more
34:47
on second and 10 plus. And as I said in the thread,
34:52
you don't need to be Archimedes. To know that
34:54
the math ain't math and when an average run is
34:56
about four yards a carry and an average completed
34:59
pass is about seven and a half. When it is second
35:02
and 18, you don't run the ball to make it third
35:06
and 13. And I get it sometimes. I know, I know
35:10
better than you. I'm Mike McDaniel. I know better
35:12
than you. I know. No, don't tell me what to do.
35:15
I'm a genius. And he's going to say context,
35:17
like we've got Weiss, we've got these wide receivers.
35:19
Clearly they had a game plan to run the ball,
35:20
right? They didn't feel like they could get in
35:22
spread and throw without McConkey, QJ, and then
35:25
later Trey Harris and no Brennan Thompson. It's
35:28
actually wide receivers one, two, three, four
35:30
on the depth chart who were out of the game by
35:32
the third quarter. But still man, running the
35:35
ball on second and 18 is the fast road to nowhere,
35:38
Andy. Yeah, the worrying issue is with the The
35:43
penchant to run the football in Jim Harbaugh
35:46
and Mike McDaniel's football philosophies, we
35:50
are becoming so predictable in how we run the
35:54
ball. If it's a Marion Hampton, if it's a Marion
35:57
Hampton, it's between the tackles. If Keaton
35:59
Mitchell or Kamani Vidal, outside. And you're
36:04
running in the direction of the motion player.
36:06
So the motion player comes across and the defence
36:08
shifts. They're like, okay, it's outside zone
36:10
to the right. And they're there. Yeah. So that's
36:13
becoming really difficult because I do think
36:16
that Marion Hampton is a good runner of the football.
36:19
He's a good running back, but he does have, he
36:22
does lack. And I know how you, uh, have pointed
36:25
some stuff out on TDU film about sort of missing,
36:28
missing those low, those zones and where to plant
36:31
and cut back. People didn't like that one. I
36:33
had a few very negative comments in response
36:35
to that one. While you're in the seat, Andy,
36:37
I'll put some pressure on you that listeners
36:39
might come after you now. Well, you know, Hampton
36:43
had 14 carries, 33 yards and 11 of them was actually
36:47
a pass. So he's lucky they called that rushing
36:49
yards. We used the first round not pick on this
36:52
guy instead of trading down with the Eagles and
36:54
getting two picks. So was it the right call about
36:58
20 games into Hampton's career as a charger?
37:01
Was drafting him in the first round the right
37:04
call by Hortiz? Uh, I don't believe in high draft
37:09
peak value on running backs personally. Uh, but
37:14
in his defense, what has happened to the offensive
37:18
line has been borderline unpredictable. You could
37:21
not, JRR Tolkien couldn't fantasy the shit out
37:25
of what's happened to this offensive line. And
37:27
now we've got four rookies and Cole Strange is
37:30
the vet. Like, what do you expect? I think four
37:34
Broncos recorded. massive tackles for loss, or
37:39
averaged and average depth of tackle, well behind
37:44
the line of scrimmage. So, you know, his first
37:47
contact's three yards behind the line and it's
37:51
impressive what he's fighting for. It was almost,
37:54
it was a game of lady luck in a sense that Kimani
37:59
Vidal just kind of used all the luck. that we
38:02
had in the running game to break all those tackles.
38:05
And it just so happened that Travis Burke was
38:08
huge in the run blocking there. Scott Matlock
38:11
was great there too, downfield. MVS probably
38:16
had one of his best run blocking reps of his
38:19
career. And Vidal just kept motoring on and it
38:23
kind of made you, it puffed up his yards per
38:26
carry, charges overall rushing yards. I think
38:28
it really puts a veil over the cracks in that
38:32
aspect of our game. But I think it was, yes,
38:36
I think it was a mistake to draft Amarion Hampton
38:40
at 22. I disagree. I think the fact in the way
38:46
that Amarion Hampton has been used this year,
38:49
especially is another failure of Mike McDaniel
38:52
to go, yeah, I'm going to change my scheme around
38:54
a little bit to the, to suit, to suit the players
38:56
on my roster. No, you're not. Shut up. Shut up.
39:00
You are definitely not. You've made Justin Herbert
39:04
change his footwork. You've made Justin Herbert
39:06
do things that he's never done in his career.
39:09
And Hey, I'm all for being like, no, no, no high
39:12
expectations, but where's the support. So I feel
39:16
really sorry for a Marion Hampton. He didn't
39:18
really get a good run of it last year, especially
39:20
the offensive line was, was, was even, I don't
39:23
know, Alistair was the offensive line worse this
39:26
game or last year. I thought they were better
39:28
this game, to be honest. I was kind of impressed.
39:31
And I also think it really helps when the guys
39:34
you're calling up, even though they're OL789,
39:37
are guys who've been with you since the off season.
39:39
They're draft picks. They're not guys you've
39:41
signed up off the street like Bobby Hart or Brunskill.
39:45
That way you see what happens when those guys
39:47
are coming to the game. So Alistair, has Hortiz
39:49
done a good job then? I think we couldn't say.
39:56
I don't think we could say now that he's done
39:58
a good job because maybe the philosophy is a
40:03
lot of B grade and C grade players doesn't work
40:05
without more of these A and A plus stars. And
40:07
we definitely, we passed on Dexter Lawrence and
40:10
AJ Brown and DK Metcalf and Devonte Adams, and
40:13
maybe a couple more stars is what this team actually
40:16
needs. It's hard to know though. When the money's
40:18
there, absolutely. When the money's there, although
40:21
it put us... Put a lid on that one for a second.
40:23
We got to come back to that too. Jesus. It's
40:25
going to be a 10 hour episode. Um, but yeah,
40:29
Hortys also has the one hand tied now where so
40:31
many guys are injured, but you know, weeks one
40:33
and two, they weren't injured and they were playing
40:35
like ass as you Americans like to say. Um, but
40:39
on Hampton, why I say this is not anti Hampton.
40:41
Cause I think you're right, Jack. I think Mike
40:43
McDaniel's changing the way he runs too. I, I
40:46
think he's been coached so hard not to think
40:49
and just hit it. that he's actually stopped playing
40:52
with feel and vision. And so you're seeing more
40:54
of these things where he just kind of tucks his
40:56
shoulder and bulldozes straight into a line where
40:59
maybe he could feel out a hole like he was doing
41:01
for North Carolina. Where I get worried with
41:04
the first round running back is if the structure
41:07
and atmosphere around that play isn't good. I
41:10
think running backs really struggle to generate
41:12
yardage without a good offensive line. We've
41:14
seen it with the Raiders and then I think you're
41:16
kind of just wasting carries with a position
41:18
that already has high attrition. Before you get
41:21
stuff sorted. So now make Hampton's been banging
41:24
into stuff for 20 games. We've got nowhere where
41:27
Owen five and I want to see Hampton be a high
41:31
value player. I think he can be, I think he is
41:33
worth pick 22. I didn't think we were ready to
41:37
come out and spend that on a running back with
41:39
how our team was constructed. Do you think Andy
41:42
that that whole debacle in the front office was
41:46
kind of. the first blood in the water of where
41:48
we say, cause I now go back to that, you know,
41:51
that whole miss, this is a very loaded question,
41:53
but it just sort of came to me how Hampton even
41:55
got onto our roster was kind of like, what's
41:58
going on? Oh, what's, oh, we're just going to
41:59
take it. I'm Marian. That to me is, is, is a,
42:03
was a really interesting revisit and thinking
42:06
is that obviously we clearly wanted to maybe
42:08
move down, but we didn't cause someone didn't
42:11
like it. It's an interesting thing to, to, to
42:14
think about. Right. Yeah, it just screams like
42:19
a lack of Contingency it's a lack of sort of
42:25
preparedness and I kind of get the feeling that
42:28
yeah the ice the Hortiz is asking price for pick
42:31
22 was probably too high and he wasn't really
42:34
willing to move on that and Look everyone through
42:38
whatever Jimmy Johnson's chart or however you
42:40
want to value draft picks You know you have your
42:45
limit on on what it's worth, right? So you can't
42:49
just say yes for the sake of it, but to, yeah,
42:52
to fizz and kind of go, oh, yeah, we're, you
42:55
know, we're taking Hampton. It's tough. And I
42:57
think Al, Al made a great point that adds to
43:03
where I came to on the was Hampton a bad pick
43:06
at 22. No, but when your roster is not constructed
43:11
in a way that suit or benefits his play style.
43:16
It's like drafting a wide receiver at, you know,
43:20
in the, in the top five when you don't have a
43:23
quarterback with any hands. Like why are you
43:25
getting a wide receiver when you actually can't
43:27
get the ball to him? Why are you drafting a running
43:29
back high when you are not doing anything? And
43:33
look, they, we planned on having Joe Walton,
43:36
Rashawn Slater all of last year and them not
43:38
getting injured, but the interior offensive line
43:40
was junk and we knew it at the start of last
43:44
year. And then it wasn't fixed this year. Or
43:48
Andy, is it like drafting a center and then asking
43:50
him to, no, I think we can play. He can play
43:51
left guard. He was my blue chip pick. I don't
43:54
think so. Uh, Alistair. It's Hortiz's world.
43:59
We're just living in it, man. So are we now going,
44:02
we're not harder to break at all. We are more
44:05
breakable than ever. Like we've got to, we've
44:07
got to call it as it is. We're not, we're completely
44:10
broken. I'm not trying to break you. I've already
44:12
broken you. It's so hard to comment, but the
44:15
injuries are worse. Yeah. And they were bad last
44:18
year as well. So he talks a good game and it
44:21
looks good and it's exciting. They got the nice
44:22
videos. That makes you want to work out. But
44:25
the proof is in the pudding. Our injury list
44:28
is lengthy and everyone's broken. So he comes
44:33
in for criticism as well, including all of us,
44:36
our hearts. It's a matter of time before Justin's
44:38
broken too. Uh, be it physically or mentally.
44:42
And I think he's probably closer on the ladder
44:44
because let's talk about Justin perhaps before
44:47
we kind of end this thing, man, because this
44:50
guy plays, what I would say is a pretty good
44:53
game through three quarters. Right. But that
44:57
isn't good enough. The whole hub or mantra is
45:01
being at your best when your best is needed.
45:04
He ends this game again with three turnover worthy
45:07
plays. They all come in the last quarter. I know
45:11
he's not solely to blame. He's definitely not
45:13
solely to blame. But in a sense this week, he
45:16
was actually at his worst when his best was needed.
45:19
And you do feel, Jack, where when one bad thing
45:22
goes wrong, he goes into a bit of a tailspin,
45:26
which I haven't seen before this year. My take
45:31
is that this guy has been drafted by the charges.
45:35
He's been promised so many things and Harbaugh
45:39
has probably been the most overt promiser. of
45:42
greatness in Justin's career. Everything was
45:44
meant to be fixed under him. Harbor continually,
45:48
continually, continually to the detriment to
45:52
the, to the, it, it almost ruins a player's confidence.
45:58
Like this guy keeps saying, I'm going to be the
45:59
best ever quarterback ever. Who the hell is this
46:02
guy? And he kept saying, he keeps saying that,
46:04
Oh, we're not going to have to rely on Justin
46:05
to, to play hero ball. I think, I think it's
46:08
gotten worse. Like Justin Herbert is having to
46:11
play more hero ball than ever. So there's a point
46:15
where he's just going, and now I'm being told
46:18
to change my footwork. Now I'm being told that
46:20
everything's going to be okay. Everything's going
46:22
to be right. It's going to be fine. It's going
46:23
to be fine. I reckon he's cooked. I've never
46:28
seen Justin Herbert play like this. I still think
46:31
he's a very, very good quarterback. And I'm not
46:33
suggesting we trade him or anything, but those,
46:35
that last interception and the interceptions
46:37
in previous weeks, Andy, I actually think he
46:40
might be mentally cooked from this, whether it's
46:43
from the scheme, the change up, the fact is,
46:46
you know, he's got four rookies in front of him,
46:48
he wants to maybe protect himself, he's not thinking.
46:51
Again, Alistair, I think you put it really well,
46:53
that it looks like he's just thinking about so
46:55
much about what he needs to do that he's forgetting
46:57
about playing the game of football. Yeah, same
46:59
with Omari and Hampton, the same with our offensive
47:01
linemen, the same with Everyone on the offense
47:04
just looks scared. What's your take Andy? Yeah,
47:09
I think the, the fourth and one really damaged
47:15
him and that sort of bleeds onto what you were
47:18
saying with bleeds into the, uh, trying to take
47:23
the hero ball out of his hands. He is putting
47:25
him in himself in a position where if he doesn't
47:29
do it, no one else is going to do it. That is,
47:31
I think his mentality and it's a total lack of
47:34
trust. What they are that is it's almost putting
47:38
blinkers on him for two weeks in a row. We've
47:41
seen him throw his he's playing catch with defenders.
47:45
He's just not reading the guy underneath the
47:48
route and whether that's a an instance of Mike
47:52
McDaniel saying just trust me and throw it and
47:55
he's doing that then he doesn't have the mental
47:59
wherewithal to read the defense and actually,
48:03
you know, go through the progressions and go.
48:05
Well, Harris is breaking out there, but you know,
48:10
the, the corners just sat in the zone, um, either
48:13
throw it away or, you know, go to read two or
48:16
read three, or do what you're so good at doing,
48:19
man. Use your legs. Just hang onto the football.
48:23
And if you can get out of the pocket, use your
48:25
legs. But a lot of the time he's, he's just getting
48:28
absolutely jackknifed from the back when Benito
48:32
beats Travis Burke and. You know, instances like
48:36
that. I spoke about luck earlier. There was the
48:40
two, the two Herbert fumbles, the one that he
48:42
recovered and the one that he lost were both
48:45
instances of freak luck. Like he stupidly did
48:49
not tuck the ball when he had the ball kicked
48:52
out of his hand by Jake Slaughter, who was rolling
48:56
over a would be pass rusher and you know, it
49:00
spilled out. And then in the other one, he goes
49:02
down and I think he tries to He tries to throw
49:06
it again and it, or it spins out of his hand
49:09
and, and then it just sort of lands in his, it's
49:12
like, it's just, it's just crazy that we're in,
49:16
that he's getting in those positions to, to be
49:19
able to turn over the ball. He's so worried about,
49:21
we need to make this play and we need to get
49:23
the odds that he's not even willing to sort of
49:25
just take the sack, right? He's trying to get
49:28
rid of the ball again. I just don't think that
49:31
he has the sort of the awareness at the moment
49:33
and it's. He's, he's just been broken by, uh,
49:38
I don't know, maybe what McDaniel is trying to
49:41
change and get him to do. Or just the worriedness
49:44
that he doesn't have his four best receivers
49:46
on the roster out on the field. I don't know.
49:49
It's also the players around him, right? So you're
49:51
right that it is on Herbert. The offensive line
49:54
started to lose their way at the end. I think
49:57
Jack started this conversation with this and
49:59
we may as well end it. The Harbaugh decision
50:01
to go for it on fourth down. Kind of was the
50:05
beginning of the end of Herbert's play. What
50:06
was really interesting is two snaps before that
50:09
It's a second and nine and we miss a screen pass
50:12
to keep Mitchell which she drops That Herbert
50:15
maybe put a tiny bit too much mustard on he could
50:17
have just tapped it, but he didn't But he should
50:20
have caught it and the all 22 is damning if Mitchell
50:24
makes sternard miss He's got three blockers in
50:27
front of him and it's gonna be a 30 yard plus
50:30
game We don't connect that you see Herbert go
50:32
SPACK Second and nine. Next play, he takes off
50:36
and tries to get the first down. Just short,
50:39
fourth and one. Okay, we're going for it. Fails.
50:43
Next drive, gets the ball. Second and ten. MVS
50:46
runs a beautiful go route, but Travis Burke has
50:49
got his arse whooped, can't get the throw off.
50:51
And as he's going down on a second and ten, he
50:54
does too much and loses the ball. Then the next
50:57
drive, there's an open receiver. He doesn't see
50:59
him. falls over and fumbles it again and we recover
51:03
it. And then the next time he throws the ball
51:05
straight to the flat defender and on the other
51:07
side of the field, you've got Cola clapping for
51:09
the ball with a bunch set. You've got three guys
51:10
there. He, he melted down Jack and it was Jim
51:15
Harbaugh's fourth and one. Dare I say, dare I
51:22
say this is that the reason why we saw Justin
51:26
Herbert so early in his career was because of
51:28
organizational negligence. Dare I say that we
51:34
might see his last game of the charges because
51:38
of organizational negligence. Born of negligence,
51:42
die of negligence, not die literally, metaphorically.
51:46
Full circle. Thanks for clarifying. On that note,
51:51
Jack, we've, we've loved having Jack on school
51:53
holidays at the minute because what it means
51:55
is that Jack can watch the games live and get
51:58
on X. and start dropping some truths. So week
52:02
two of the Bolt Fam have their say and some comments,
52:06
reactions to just the state of woe that the charges
52:11
are in. So I'll pick a couple of these. This
52:17
one's just jumped out from Jay. I wish Harbaugh
52:21
would stop cheating again, Al. He can't coach
52:24
in college for 10 plus years for a reason. In
52:27
hindsight, the high seemed awesome at the time
52:29
for the LA because of his recent University of
52:32
Michigan success, but watching this team makes
52:34
me question the legitimacy of his college success.
52:38
Whoa. He's had success everywhere he's been,
52:43
including the NFL. So unless maybe he was cheating,
52:45
it all stops. And that could be right, Jay. We
52:47
need to start cheating again. It's a bit harder
52:49
in the modern day. Everyone's got their phone
52:52
out, phones out there, picking things up. But
52:54
I don't mind that Andy, I reckon cheating might
52:57
be the only way out of this LN5 start to the
52:59
season. It's not going to be coaching. One thing
53:01
I wanted to say, this is not only a disaster
53:07
in the In its evolution, but this is totally
53:11
uncharted territory for Jim Harbaugh in his NFL
53:14
career as a coach back in San Francisco, he lost
53:19
four games in a row In that, you know last season
53:23
that he coached there He's now lost in the NFL
53:26
eight games in a row the last three of last year
53:29
and now five here and he is known for taking
53:34
bad teams up But what can he do with teams that,
53:40
uh, that he's in charge of that are now hitting
53:43
the skids and, and, and failing. I find it fascinating
53:46
to see how Jim eats his own sort of humble pie
53:50
and his own, his own mantra and digs himself
53:54
out of this. Uh, but that's me. That's not what
53:57
the ball fam have to say. So Jackie boy. Yeah.
54:02
We give, we give Erica, Erica a big run. So.
54:05
We do. I love bolts up sees common actually at
54:09
the bottom of the, of the middle row there. There's
54:11
something deeper here that we don't know what's
54:14
going on. Don't know if it's Hortiz, Jim, Mike,
54:17
but there's something going on that we don't
54:19
know. What do you think? Yeah. The, the, the
54:23
put on your foil hat. Yeah. The social media
54:26
sphere has now gone into overdrive about the
54:28
Spanos's and, and, and wanting to sell the team
54:31
and all that kind of stuff. Uh, I'm not going
54:34
to, that's just our buddy Kyle actually. I don't
54:37
know. I'm not from San Diego. I, I, I don't know,
54:41
but I do believe that there is something going
54:44
on with communication lines. I do believe there's
54:47
something going on with either teaching too much,
54:51
trying to control too much, trying to change
54:53
too much too quickly. You know, leadership 101
54:55
is you walk into an organization and if you try
55:00
and change everything within the first year,
55:02
people, I go well, what I was doing before wasn't
55:05
correct. So then you're telling me I'm wrong.
55:07
So everything that I've been doing up until this
55:08
point is wrong. Okay, well, there's my confidence
55:11
go. Second, you try and change everything you
55:14
change you there are so many unforeseen. breakages
55:19
that happen to systems and communication. And,
55:22
you know, you, you decide to change this because
55:24
this is how you did it, but you don't realize
55:26
that 50 people or 15 people relied on the previous
55:29
way to do it. So they have to learn a whole new
55:31
system to, to do stuff. Again, I go back to what,
55:36
what has Jim, what's Jim doing here in these,
55:39
in these meetings, is he just letting Mike go
55:42
and go, well, I trust you. Um, it's maybe there's
55:45
been an era of judgment. Maybe Herbert hasn't
55:48
been open to say, actually, I don't want to do
55:50
that. Can we actually do something else? Maybe
55:52
there's, uh, there's, there's clashes. Who knows,
55:55
but I do think there is something. Thank you,
55:57
bolt up. So it's a really good comment. Very
55:59
much down very, very much in my lane. Love it.
56:02
Hmm. Last one I'll read on this page, Solana
56:05
beach bum, the organization needs to reassess
56:07
before Justin Herbert calls Carson Palmer and
56:11
asks for advice. Not bad. The O line is good
56:15
enough with the rooks. The run works. The D is
56:17
top notch. Receivers don't. Just one. The O is
56:21
fully broken along with Herbert. What is the
56:24
major FUBA? Is it Mike McDaniel? Well, look,
56:30
we've touched on a fair bit of this. There's
56:33
not much you can do with the injuries and things
56:38
like that, like having the rookies on the offensive
56:41
line. But Jack, you nailed it when you said that
56:44
McDaniel came in and said that he will craft
56:46
the offense relative to the players and the skill
56:49
sets, and he's not doing it. And I think the
56:51
major malfunction on the offense is McDaniel
56:55
not being able to self -evaluate and reassess
56:59
that he needs to dumb things down, simplify things,
57:04
and just get the ball moving and get some confidence
57:07
in the players. Yes, Solana Beach Bum. I agree.
57:11
I think it is Mike McD. Andy, can I leave you
57:15
in the hot seat? Cause there was another good
57:17
one from Veiled. I'm keen on your views at the
57:20
Veiled Bowl. Do you think any changes will be
57:23
made during the bye week? Changes in OC or GM?
57:27
If not the bye at the end of the season, if there
57:29
has been no signs of improvement at this point,
57:31
you consider Harbour too, right? O 'Leary has
57:33
been the one bright spot so far. Let's focus
57:35
in on the bye. Do you see any changes between
57:38
now and the end of the season? Uh, of anybody?
57:43
Of anybody? Well, I think there'll be, there'll
57:44
be, are we talking coaches or players? Yeah,
57:47
coaches, position coaches or OC, DC, special
57:50
teams coordinator. Uh, I don't think so. One
57:54
that I wouldn't, no, no, no. One that I would
57:56
like to see is Ryan Ficcan being shown the door.
57:59
He started off like a flash in the pan and it's
58:02
been mediocre ever since. Our buddy Ryan in our
58:06
little thread gave some damning stats and it's
58:08
not just Ficken's fault but the the length of
58:11
time between the Chargers last punt block, field
58:15
block, extra point attempt block is just revolting
58:20
and it was so noticeable how close every time
58:22
Denver got to JK Scott and we're barely touching
58:26
their blockers. We're not getting a whiff of
58:29
the studs on their shoes. It's just like the
58:34
coverage units are uninspired. I'd like to see
58:38
Ficken showing the door and a fresh start there,
58:42
but I think the hidden yardage is only so much.
58:46
We're costing hidden yardage on offense and field
58:48
positions as it is. All right. Bit of fun on
58:52
this page. Could I throw this? Could I throw
58:54
one to Alistair? Actually, I love the question
58:56
from Syed Hassane. Uh, I asked Kyle offline,
59:01
Alistair, do you think truly will resign with
59:03
the charges after the season? I don't think he'll
59:06
want to. And before I throw to you, I think we've
59:08
made a really big mistake. Now if the team really
59:11
sucks and truly has a good season because he's
59:13
going to demand a lot from us to stay. I think
59:17
they've completely cooked this by not resigning
59:19
him. What say you? I think. He is a chance to
59:24
want to stay because of the South Carol California
59:28
Southern California roots and he's grown up there
59:31
his whole life and he's a local kid and all that
59:33
thing. But I ultimately think he will follow
59:38
the money because I think if the money was not
59:40
important to him, they would have reached a deal
59:42
because I think the agent would have been pushing
59:46
for top five, six, seven, eight edge Russia in
59:48
the NFL money. Yeah, uh... A lot of these are
1:00:20
sort of similar floating around that Harbor McDaniel
1:00:23
call. And, uh, here we are. Where are we? At
1:00:33
this point, Jack, do you think we should consider
1:00:35
our 2027 draft position given the season is well
1:00:39
gone now? Maybe time to fully tank for Jeremiah
1:00:42
Smith. Is a wide receiver one? The answer is
1:00:45
what I want to ask out of that comment from Ajax.
1:00:48
Yeah. Cause we kind of already talked about it
1:00:51
on the, uh, earlier. I don't want to tank. I
1:00:53
think winning is great for culture. As Alistair
1:00:56
said, uh, is a wide receiver one, not a rookie.
1:01:00
I think trying to find one and free agency might
1:01:03
be the better way to go. Uh, I just, depending
1:01:06
on where we are, if we're sitting around that
1:01:08
10th to 12th, you kind of go, is there going
1:01:10
to be a true, a WR one that is the, I don't know.
1:01:13
I haven't looked in the class yet. Maybe I should
1:01:15
start doing that because the season's cooked.
1:01:17
Uh, is there, is there one there? I don't know.
1:01:19
Uh, I'd have to take best player available, I
1:01:22
think. Um, and try and find an alpha dog. Cause
1:01:25
we've got the money, right? Got the money. Go
1:01:27
and find a DK Metcalf on the free agency market.
1:01:34
Oh, Al, just never going to see a Superbowl in
1:01:37
my life. And I'm good with it. Yeah. 2112, probably
1:01:42
a rush fan there. That is a fitting way to end,
1:01:45
I think. Uh, yeah, it's getting to that point.
1:01:48
I'm almost good with it. I was thinking about
1:01:50
getting ready to save the money, book the tickets.
1:01:53
And I've said, said to Kirst, maybe we'll have
1:01:55
a holiday. I was going to say mid -Feb after
1:01:58
the Superbowl. And now we're going, maybe bring
1:01:59
that holiday bit forward to early February, even
1:02:02
late Jan, maybe even December, the way things
1:02:04
are going. Uh, thanks everyone for the comments.
1:02:07
Yeah. Thanks for the comments. I love to see
1:02:08
the passion. There's, there's some ludicrous
1:02:10
stuff out there, but I mean, it's, it's pretty
1:02:13
soothing to just smash your keypad. and get some,
1:02:16
get some words out on the internet when you're,
1:02:19
you're feeling so lost and hopeless, supporting
1:02:21
the team that we do. Jack, do us a favor, finish
1:02:26
us off with one of your finest teachable moments,
1:02:29
please. Teach, teach. All right, look, here's
1:02:33
the deal. I've got a hangover. I have a hangover
1:02:40
and I haven't even drank any alcohol because
1:02:42
we're zero and five. Short and sharp on this
1:02:45
week, boys. And to end the show, I think it's
1:02:47
a really good one. there's an ancient philosophical
1:02:50
thought experiment called the Ship of Theseus.
1:02:54
Imagine a ship. Over time, every plank of wood
1:02:57
is replaced, every sail, every nail, every single
1:03:01
part. Eventually, nothing of the original ship
1:03:05
remains. And yet, we still call it a ship. So,
1:03:11
philosophers have spent thousands of years debating
1:03:13
a simple question. If every part of something
1:03:16
changes, Is it still fundamentally the same thing?
1:03:21
And perhaps the more interesting question is,
1:03:23
if you replace everything, but the same problems
1:03:26
keep appearing, was the problem ever really with
1:03:30
the parts? Class dismissed. I want five. See
1:03:34
you next year. That's a good one. Thanks for
1:03:37
joining us to sit through the fifth losing pod
1:03:40
of the season. Don't forget to... Join Jack and
1:03:45
Alistair later in the week as we preview the
1:03:49
Kansas City matchup in week six hit the like
1:03:52
and subscribe Hang with us. Let's ride this together
1:03:55
Whether it can't just keep going down right the
1:03:59
right the rollercoaster has got to go back up.
1:04:01
It can We'll see you next week on the Thunder
1:04:11
down under charges podcast Lloyd turning, got
1:04:40
it! Goodnight to all!