Latest / Scene Projects Sports Network / Brandon Day: From Football to Flow States and the Science of Performance

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Brandon Day: From Football to Flow States and the Science of Performance · Scene Projects Sports Network

• 0:06
  SP SN.
• 0:14
  Welcome into the Scene Project Sports Network.
• 0:17
  I am your host, Bubba Starts, and we have a really exciting interview for you guys today.
• 0:21
  I'm bringing in neural coach and trainer, Brandon Day.
• 0:26
  Brandon, welcome to the show.
• 0:27
  Hey, Bubba.
• 0:28
  Thanks for having me, man.
• 0:30
  Hey.
• 0:30
  It's my pleasure.
• 0:31
  We we don't do a ton of interviews over here on this network.
• 0:34
  A lot of what we do is just sports coverage.
• 0:37
  But because you work with athletes and you work in that space, I thought that this was a little
• 0:41
  bit better fit for the conversation that we're gonna have today.
• 0:45
  So before we get into, you know, too much about what you're doing now, I I'd love to know a
• 0:50
  little bit about your history.
• 0:52
  I know you're rocking the four zero six shirt today.
• 0:54
  So, shout out to a fellow Midwesterner.
• 0:57
  I know you're from Montana, but give us a little bit of the backstory.
• 1:01
  Yeah.
• 1:02
  So like you said, I'm from Montana, the 406.
• 1:06
  Shout out to Papu and his company.
• 1:08
  I'm always repping their stuff as much as I can.
• 1:12
  But, yeah, I grew up in Montana and played sports all my life.
• 1:17
  I ended up playing football at a small college in Montana in Helena where I'm from called
• 1:22
  Carroll College.
• 1:23
  Had a great run there.
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  I played in three national championships in the NAI.
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  We won two of them.
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  I was an all American captain of the team, and I ended up on the cover of Sports Illustrated
• 1:33
  in 2007 when we played against your boys down there in Sioux Falls.
• 1:41
  It was a muddy game.
• 1:42
  There was a photographer there that was from the Associated Press.
• 1:45
  He snapped this picture at the end of the game of me sliding through the mud and doing this
• 1:50
  like celebratory celebratory pose.
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  And, it got picked up by Sports Illustrated and it was a was a wild story that we can certainly
• 1:58
  go into if you want but
• 2:00
  Oh, we're gonna talk about that one.
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  The short version is it it it really highlighted a lot of my insecurities and, self
• 2:11
  worth issues.
• 2:12
  And so the substance abuse issues and the ways that I would self medicate and hide from the
• 2:17
  spotlight just amplified a lot.
• 2:21
  So then I went into independent film because that's a pretty easy transition for somebody
• 2:26
  with substance abuse and insecurity issues.
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  Ended up in LA and kinda hit rock bottom and I was in so much chronic physical pain and mental
• 2:36
  and emotional pain.
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  The substance abuse was not helping and I hit I hit rock bottom and I had to make a change.
• 2:44
  So I decided in that moment, you know, when I was very near the brink that things needed to
• 2:52
  be different.
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  And so from then, for the last fifteen years, I've been trying to heal my body and heal my
• 2:58
  brain because I knew all those hits to the head probably weren't helping things.
• 3:02
  And so it was a long journey, spiritual, physical, emotional, mental, everything.
• 3:08
  And I people that know me, this is no surprise, they they I'm kind of a a rebel of sorts, and
• 3:17
  the traditional ways of going about things don't really jive with me too much, so I had to
• 3:23
  find my own way.
• 3:25
  And that led me down lots of different paths of education, some formal, so a lot of informal.
• 3:31
  And through my experience and these kinda off the beaten path education methods and things, I
• 3:37
  found my way and eventually landed in this world of applied neurology.
• 3:45
  And that's what really changed the game for me.
• 3:47
  That and the idea of flow states and the neurobiology of what's going on in your brain
• 3:54
  when you're in a flow state.
• 3:56
  And for those that aren't familiar with the flow state, it's when you're in the zone.
• 4:00
  When you feel you are performing at your peak so much so you're so involved in the moment, in
• 4:06
  the task at hand that everything else fades away.
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  Time goes away.
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  Your sense of self goes away.
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  It's the most enjoyable and our, most intense, focus and peak performance state that we can
• 4:20
  find.
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  And so when I finally understood that and that that's what I had lost after sports, I made my
• 4:29
  life about finding that again and making that the goal.
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  And as I tell all my clients, like, when you make flow the goal, everything else takes care
• 4:40
  of itself.
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  The outcomes, they just take care of themselves.
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  Like, you're focusing on the process.
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  You're focusing on being present in the moment.
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  So from, like, the mental mindset side of things, that's that's my jam.
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  Right?
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  I love flow states, and I love chasing flow in everything that we do, and that's what I coach
• 5:00
  people on.
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  And then on the physical, you know, and then brain optimization side, there's the
• 5:05
  neurotraining, which was what really unlocked my chronic physical pain.
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  Like, I'm talking like instantly fifteen years of pain gone.
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  So no surprise that I'm like, okay.
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  I'm going head first into this.
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  Whatever this is, let's just go.
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  Let's see where this takes us.
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  Cool thing about the brain is is that you'll never reach the end.
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  It's a universe inside of itself, so you can never learn it all.
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  And I think that's awesome.
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  Right?
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  You can always chase mastery in that one thing.
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  So
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  Man, I'm so glad, that we matched on PodMatch.
• 5:43
  Shout out to Alex Sanfilippo.
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  He has he has changed my life with this, network that they've built and, for this
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  because I come from the artist world.
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  I come from music.
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  I grew up playing sports.
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  You know, I didn't go on to play at any collegiate level.
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  But you talk about the flow state, and that's on stage.
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  Right?
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  And for a player where you're in the game and and you get into that zone and I felt that as
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  a, you know, a high school, you know, athlete.
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  But for me, it was always in music, and I had grown up playing and performing on stage.
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  It's probably why I didn't pursue sports more was because I had found music and found it
• 6:19
  easier to achieve that in this other area.
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  But, yeah, that high, that riding that high of that flow, which is exactly what leads a lot of
• 6:29
  artists and, you know, the physical pain of performing, the same as athletes is that you
• 6:34
  kinda end up chasing that high.
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  I myself have dealt with substance abuse issues.
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  My substance abuse and and bad decisions landed me in prison for a couple of years.
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  Right?
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  And I and I didn't murder anyone.
• 6:46
  I I sold a lot of weed, right, which was also, you know, not a great decision, but also now
• 6:52
  not the social stigma that it was ten years ago, when I caught my charges.
• 6:58
  We're talking about descheduling and now it seems kind of well, I was like, what are the
• 7:01
  last people that did hard time for marijuana?
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  But, I digress.
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  Right.
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  Talking about just everything you're hitting on there has so many relations outside of the
• 7:12
  sports world.
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  And you talked about how you help corporate clients and corporate athletes, I think you
• 7:17
  called them, because they are using while they're not maybe physically using a lot of
• 7:23
  those muscles, they're using their brains at a much higher level and securing these big deals.
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  And writing the deals, I mean, I can't imagine, and I hope I get there.
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  We're talking about some pretty massive sponsorships with our company right now, a big
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  tour we're planning.
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  But, like, the thrill of landing a mill multimillion dollar deal, right, because you
• 7:41
  are in the zone for that presentation and nailed it.
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  And then, you know, walking out of there and being like, we're gonna celebrate.
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  Let's all go get drinks at the bar.
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  Right?
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  And and for some people, you're riding that high for a long time.
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  And and before you know it, you know, you've built a habit out of that celebration even when
• 8:03
  you have nothing to celebrate.
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  And Right.
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  So there are so many things in your backstory that are just like, man, even though I never
• 8:10
  attained that at any kind of collegiate sport level, I have been there on, like, the artist
• 8:15
  side.
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  I've played in front of thousands of people.
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  I have performed in those moments and have been there.
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  And the the the brain, the the chemistry of it is exactly the same.
• 8:27
  Right.
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  Exactly.
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  Yeah.
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  And the that's why I call my corporate clients and my entrepreneurs, corporate athletes.
• 8:38
  And that's why I work with artists and musicians, and I call them athletes too because
• 8:43
  they are.
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  We're playing different sports, quote, unquote, but it's all the same.
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  And that's flow states.
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  That's what underpins it all.
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  Right?
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  And so when you treat it all like that and if that becomes the goal, then you can train
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  anyone to achieve that.
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  The context is a little different.
• 9:00
  The technical skills are a little different.
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  It's my transition out of sports, what actually got me really back to that place was music.
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  I play guitar and sing as well.
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  And so that I mean, it took a while.
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  It's a it's a hill to climb, right, to learn in any instrument.
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  Think it's hard to learn a sport, try picking up an instrument.
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  Yeah.
• 9:27
  Yeah.
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  Because you
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  don't just look bad.
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  You sound bad too.
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  Oh, man.
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  That's terrible.
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  You you you I spent I spent seven years in a dark room
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  before I I learned when I was, like, 12, 13 years old that I picked it up quickly.
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  Happened to come from a musical family, so I had some advantages.
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  Right?
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  But, yeah, I mean, I know people that have learned in their twenties and that I don't get
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  people in their forties that are pretty good performers but have that mental block where
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  they're like, oh, I would never perform in front of people.
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  Like, I I can't do that.
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  And you're like, well That's could, but but you have this mental block that you can't get past.
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  That's where I that's where I come in as a coach.
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  Right?
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  Well, now I have someone to refer them to when I hear that.
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  Well and and and the the short answer is, for anybody out there that's listening and is in
• 10:16
  that position, is you gotta for flow states, and this is the the like, no matter what the
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  sport, the skill, anything, no matter what it is, flow sits in the perfect balance between
• 10:30
  challenge and skills, where you are challenging yourself just a little bit outside of your
• 10:36
  current skill level.
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  If the challenge gets too high, and this is perceived challenge by the way.
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  Right?
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  Performing in front of I just performed in front of a full bar, like a few 100 people at
• 10:51
  my mom's sixtieth birthday.
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  This is my first performance ever in front of like an actual crowd, but I had performed in
• 10:58
  front of the family at parties, you know, I'll pull it out at a campfire or at a pool party
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  and we'll just sing some songs together.
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  And I could do the bigger performance because I had done the earlier ones, the easier ones.
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  I felt a little bit more confident because I had done those.
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  So my skill level was getting better.
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  You know what I mean?
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  So that's that's all I'm saying.
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  Like, was it hard?
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  Yes.
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  I was shitting my pants.
• 11:26
  Sorry.
• 11:26
  Sorry for the You're
• 11:27
  good.
• 11:28
  You're good,
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  man.
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  The language.
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  But Yeah.
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  I literally had to go sit in the car and do, like, my little vocal warm up, and I, like,
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  hyperventilate for a while because it was so scary to me in that moment.
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  But that is what life is all about.
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  That's why we play sports.
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  That's why we perform.
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  It's for that because when you go through the fear and you approach and you tackle that
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  challenge, the outcome actually doesn't matter.
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  Like, you can bomb or you can do well.
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  Like, I don't even remember most of it.
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  Right?
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  You've been watching out right.
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  Yeah.
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  You kinda do.
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  But you feel so good for taking on that challenge afterward.
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  You've been in the flow state, and then you get the, you know, the the euphoria that comes
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  afterward.
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  That's really why you do it.
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  Right?
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  You know, all of the other things that come after that, right, that's like, you know,
• 12:31
  you're sitting in that afterglow and you wanna have fun and you wanna celebrate.
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  That could be its own thing.
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  Right?
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  But why we do it is is for that state of consciousness.
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  It's literally an altered state of consciousness.
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  Your brain totally changes and this part of your brain up here, the frontal lobe, which is
• 12:51
  where our self referential thinking is, where our inner critic lives, our self doubt, our
• 12:57
  second guessing, all of that just shuts up and goes completely quiet.
• 13:02
  That part of your brain literally shuts down and you just start acting on instinct.
• 13:08
  Right?
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  That's where that's why when you improvise, you can do things that you're like, I've never done
• 13:15
  that before.
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  That was insane.
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  It was so good.
• 13:18
  Right?
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  You do that because your this brain shuts down and you go on your current your skill and your
• 13:25
  instinct and you're making these connections in your brain that you don't have the ability to
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  make when this thing in the front here is running the show.
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  So it literally changes everything about your brain and allows you to access these these
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  parts of your brain that you don't normally have access to.
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  So it's like big creative breakthroughs, huge problem solving breakthroughs happen in a flow
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  state.
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  Einstein was well known for going when he would have a really intense problem, leaving when he
• 14:07
  would be at his, like, most intense point of frustration.
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  And he would go out on the little Lake Geneva, whatever it's called there at Princeton, and
• 14:17
  take his little sailboat out there and just go sailing.
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  Fun fact, he's not a sailor.
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  Didn't even know how to sail.
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  So he would get stuck out there more often than not.
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  But it would take that you could call it a distraction.
• 14:33
  Really, it's like a in the flow cycle, we call it the release phase.
• 14:37
  There's a great book called the breakout principle that talks all about this.
• 14:41
  Like, you go through this struggle phase at the start of any, task, and then when you release
• 14:47
  and let it go, you let that brain just, like, turn off.
• 14:53
  Totally forget about the problem, and then you'll have this boom moment of insight.
• 14:58
  They call that the paradox of inspiration.
• 15:01
  That's why you have these ideas in the shower or when you're just about to fall asleep.
• 15:06
  You have the best idea for a song ever.
• 15:08
  You gotta write it down because it's gonna be gone.
• 15:10
  Right?
• 15:12
  Well, in the in the case of problem solving or in the case of a game or in a performance, when
• 15:18
  you drop in through that release phase and you let go, these these chemicals, like, flush your
• 15:25
  system of all the stress.
• 15:28
  Right?
• 15:28
  This is why calling extreme sport or adventure sport athletes adrenaline junkies is not
• 15:35
  correct because adrenaline is not fun.
• 15:39
  Like, when you're highly adrenalized, like I was sitting in that car before that
• 15:43
  performance, like, I'm hyperventilating.
• 15:45
  I'm freaking out.
• 15:47
  That perceived challenge is, like, too high at that moment, and I'm, like, anxious.
• 15:52
  But when I like focus on my warm up and my breathing, bring myself back down and approach
• 15:59
  that challenge for what it is, it's just a challenge and I'm getting more excited about
• 16:03
  it, then those stress chemicals start to release.
• 16:06
  And once you're on stage, at least for me, once you got on stage and you got through the first
• 16:13
  song and you realize that nobody's like throwing things at you and there are people
• 16:18
  actually singing along and they're like, oh, okay.
• 16:21
  They're kind of enjoying this.
• 16:22
  Alright.
• 16:22
  This is kind of fun.
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  And then you drop into that flow state and then you just let go.
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  And that's where you really start to, you know, connect with your instrument, connect with your
• 16:33
  voice, and connect with the crowd.
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  Like, that's some magical shit there.
• 16:40
  That connection with the crowd, which.
• 16:43
  God, you went down the rabbit hole with this stuff, didn't you?
• 16:47
  Oh, I've done deep deep down the rabbit hole with all this.
• 16:51
  Cool, man.
• 16:51
  Seeing athletes get a rap of being dumb jocks.
• 16:54
  Look at you.
• 16:56
  Look at you.
• 16:58
  Am sorts of notes.
• 16:59
  You know what?
• 17:00
  I I've performed for so long in my life that, like, almost being on stage and playing music,
• 17:05
  like, doesn't do that for me.
• 17:07
  Like, I get into the flow in that so easily.
• 17:10
  I just like, it's it's natural.
• 17:11
  So I don't have that.
• 17:12
  Like, the gratification of it didn't reach.
• 17:15
  And that's probably why I picked up podcasting, and it kinda took over in that.
• 17:19
  So I quit my welding job in 2024.
• 17:22
  I thought it was gonna be a rock star.
• 17:24
  Right?
• 17:24
  And it was I had these gigs booked.
• 17:26
  We had these big, you know, amphitheater shows.
• 17:28
  We were opening for arm chair boogie, you know, Wisconsin kinda new grass band.
• 17:33
  Right?
• 17:33
  And that was gonna be the biggest one of the the summer.
• 17:37
  And then, like, that next I think later that day, I think I played the show on a Friday, and
• 17:42
  then I went up and played Saturday, Sunday in Minneapolis, two shows I'd never done before
• 17:46
  because I didn't wanna be, like, to get too big for my britches.
• 17:49
  Right?
• 17:49
  So it was immediately going from, like, the pinnacle of the stages I can play in South
• 17:53
  Dakota.
• 17:54
  There's, like, one stage that's bigger, the Denny Sanford Premier Center, which I'm sure
• 17:58
  you're you're familiar with.
• 18:01
  And I've worked in there.
• 18:03
  Right?
• 18:04
  I've done some I have done some work with the podcast and stuff in there already.
• 18:07
  So it was like, that doesn't like, I it takes a a massive move in my career for me to get that
• 18:13
  opportunity.
• 18:13
  So I was kind of at the upper echelon of what I could achieve in my music career.
• 18:17
  It was important for me to, like, go out and play to an empty room, and I did.
• 18:21
  That Sunday, I played on a rooftop in Minneapolis, the Lynn Lake Brewery now closed,
• 18:25
  which is a shame, really cool bar, that it's, there was nobody there.
• 18:31
  It was my wife and my kids.
• 18:32
  Right?
• 18:32
  And I needed that to, like, to stay humble.
• 18:35
  And I booked it that way.
• 18:36
  Right?
• 18:36
  Like, nobody sent me out on that.
• 18:37
  I did it on purpose because I knew mentally it's like if you make that the pinnacle and you
• 18:42
  think that that's the way that it's going to be, you're going to totally screw yourself for
• 18:46
  the rest of your career.
• 18:48
  And Mhmm.
• 18:48
  You know, from that summer it got to the end of the summer where I was like, I don't have the
• 18:53
  passion for this that I thought I that I thought I did.
• 18:56
  Like, to make it, I was gonna have to play five, six nights a week, play in these bar
• 19:00
  shows and doing all these things.
• 19:01
  And it was fun, but it was so taxing.
• 19:04
  Right?
• 19:05
  Like, physically exhausting every single day, and I was like, I don't wanna live my life in
• 19:10
  this, like, perpetual tiredness.
• 19:11
  I'm an early riser.
• 19:13
  I like, I'm up with the sun.
• 19:15
  I get my walk in.
• 19:16
  I get my physic you know, like, I like to get that brain moving.
• 19:20
  Yeah.
• 19:20
  The bit like, just, like, being up until 2AM and sleeping till ten or eleven, I was just
• 19:25
  like, this doesn't fit the lifestyle that I really enjoy living.
• 19:28
  I like to be up kind of before the sun and working and getting, you know, that time in
• 19:33
  when the world is quiet.
• 19:35
  And podcasting was already part of my life at that point, and it really I I really started to
• 19:42
  invest a lot more time into it.
• 19:43
  So I kinda came off the road, you know, after the summer, you know, fall tours were kind of
• 19:48
  over and really started dedicating myself to the podcasting.
• 19:52
  And in that time, I was very blessed to cover the Cinch playoffs, Governors Cup at the Denny
• 19:57
  Sanford and got to interview Rocker Steiner who is the now world champion, bareback rider.
• 20:04
  And I interviewed him at that point.
• 20:06
  He had just become the world number one, money earned.
• 20:09
  And interviewing him then and then interviewing him again this year when we got the opportunity
• 20:15
  to cover it, and he's been number one ever since, more money than anybody's ever earned in
• 20:19
  the sport, at least in his division.
• 20:22
  And, he's been on this ride.
• 20:24
  They're they're releasing a TV show about him on the cowboy channel.
• 20:28
  And then to meet him again this year and to see where he was, because he's a young man, 19, 20,
• 20:34
  21, 22 years old.
• 20:35
  Very young kid.
• 20:37
  Right?
• 20:37
  Yeah.
• 20:37
  At the top of his game comes from a and comes from a family of champions.
• 20:41
  Mom was a world champion.
• 20:43
  Dad was a world champion.
• 20:44
  Grandpa was a world champion.
• 20:46
  Like, somebody that not only did it at a high level himself, but grew up around people that
• 20:50
  had done it at a high level.
• 20:51
  And, getting to have a conversation with him this year, working a PGA tour event this year
• 20:57
  where I got to interview Chris Carter and Ronde Barber and Sir Nick Faldo, the world number one
• 21:02
  golfer for ninety six weeks in a row.
• 21:05
  And, you know, Ronde and Chris, both hall of famers.
• 21:08
  Ronde, a Super Bowl champion.
• 21:10
  Brother, that's I was sweating.
• 21:12
  Right?
• 21:12
  Like, I my pits were drenched from just being in the room with these high caliber, you know,
• 21:18
  people and and being in a new space.
• 21:21
  Right?
• 21:21
  I wasn't playing music now.
• 21:23
  I was in the press conference side, and really nobody else in the media, was asking a lot of
• 21:28
  questions.
• 21:29
  So it really came on to me, you know, like, having to drive some of this conversation.
• 21:33
  And that 45 presser and those nerves and, like, man, instantly became a junkie for that again.
• 21:40
  It was like, I I love this.
• 21:42
  I love that feeling, but it was getting in that flow state.
• 21:45
  And I'm so glad that, like, I had one camera facing at me and one camera facing at them.
• 21:51
  And there's a point in there, where, you know, Ronde is talking directly to me, and it's a
• 21:56
  small press conference, man.
• 21:57
  You're talking about less than maybe 15 people in the room.
• 22:01
  Right?
• 22:01
  And you're 15 feet away from, I mean, like, league MVPs.
• 22:06
  Right?
• 22:07
  Like, the freaking man, right, at the top of his level on the biggest platforms in the world
• 22:12
  and just incredible experience in that.
• 22:16
  And the the neural pathways that I had walked in music had served me so well to be in that
• 22:21
  room with those gentlemen.
• 22:23
  And, at one point, I think I referred to The Open as one of the other majors and having Sir
• 22:28
  Nick Faldo be like, the other?
• 22:31
  This is a a knight.
• 22:32
  Right?
• 22:32
  A literal knight ribbing me.
• 22:34
  My wife loves it, by the way.
• 22:36
  Right?
• 22:36
  She's like, they're making fun of you.
• 22:38
  I'm like, yeah.
• 22:38
  Honestly, he's knighted.
• 22:40
  So what am I gonna do?
• 22:42
  Right.
• 22:43
  But just being able to laugh about it and all of that stage experience coming in handy, you
• 22:48
  know, fast forward another two months from there, I did a 150 interviews on the red carpet
• 22:54
  at the Grand Ole Opry House.
• 22:55
  And a 150 independent artists who I vibe with.
• 22:59
  Right?
• 22:59
  They're they're me.
• 23:00
  I I have that.
• 23:01
  But working on these massive stages is just like that whole music career was only
• 23:07
  preparation for this broadcasting career.
• 23:10
  Right?
• 23:11
  And all of those neural pathways that I built being on stage and performing in that essence
• 23:16
  prepared me for that.
• 23:18
  And and in some way, the sports that I played as a kid had prepared me for the time on the
• 23:23
  stage and just the way that everything and to hear you now kinda talk about the technical
• 23:28
  side of that.
• 23:29
  Yeah.
• 23:29
  Right?
• 23:30
  Like, the neuroplasticity and all of these things that you built and that it's no
• 23:35
  different.
• 23:36
  All these different stages, all these different pathways.
• 23:39
  And in some ways, like, your, athletic career prepared you for being on the stage as a
• 23:44
  musician.
• 23:45
  Right?
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:46
  I I good friend of mine, Riley Wieslowski, paid for played for the Rapid City Rush, but he also
• 23:51
  played music and was mostly, you know, campfire strummer, but him and his brother started
• 23:56
  playing out around Rapid City and stuff and, you know, having conversations about him about
• 24:00
  the the similarities, right, between the two stages in life and how you both lock in.
• 24:05
  To have you iterate that now on this show is really just like a huge full circle moment for
• 24:11
  me.
• 24:11
  So I appreciate everything here.
• 24:14
  Can you talk more about, like, the you know, obviously, it was your rock bottom that pushed
• 24:20
  you into the neural, but, like, what keeps you going in that?
• 24:24
  Is it seeing other people kinda have these realizations and helping them along that
• 24:28
  journey now that kind of inspires you to keep going?
• 24:33
  In a word, yes.
• 24:36
  It's also still I sometimes say it's such a selfish pursuit because it still is a lot of
• 24:43
  it's about me and being the best version of myself.
• 24:48
  And, you know, I still have a lot to work on.
• 24:51
  I've I've kind of come out of the fog of chronic pain and the mental health and the
• 24:57
  substance abuse.
• 24:59
  This I'll be celebrating ten years without alcohol this year, which was a huge turning
• 25:06
  point for me.
• 25:07
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  Good for you.
• 25:08
  It's the easiest one.
• 25:09
  Right?
• 25:09
  It's so readily accessible and so socially accepted that it's
• 25:13
  it's hard Especially
• 25:15
  one to kick.
• 25:16
  Especially in the, you know, the Midwest or the Northwest.
• 25:19
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:20
  Montana, the Dakotas.
• 25:22
  It gets cold out there.
• 25:23
  You're stuck inside.
• 25:24
  You know?
• 25:25
  Alcohol is a big part of the culture.
• 25:27
  And I I didn't fully understand that until I moved away and got to Southern California and
• 25:33
  then over to Arizona here where I live now.
• 25:36
  Started running in some other groups and I'm like, you mean that booze is
• 25:40
  not You don't drink every night?
• 25:42
  Every at every occasion and you know?
• 25:45
  Yeah.
• 25:45
  So I've I did quit that, and that was that was huge for me.
• 25:50
  But coming out of that fog of all of that was just kind of the start of the journey.
• 25:58
  You know, like, getting out of chronic pain is great, but that is not the end point.
• 26:05
  Right?
• 26:05
  Every single client that I that comes to me in pain, we have a conversation day one.
• 26:11
  It's like, okay.
• 26:12
  You got this pain.
• 26:13
  That's obviously your goal is to get out of pain.
• 26:15
  Right?
• 26:16
  But I need you to pick something bigger and better for yourself that you wanna do when
• 26:21
  you're done with this pain.
• 26:22
  You need something else to strive for because too many times people will get out of pain and
• 26:28
  they'll come out of that fog and they'll be like, oh my god.
• 26:32
  Thank you.
• 26:33
  Finally.
• 26:34
  And then they stop doing their drills, then they stop striving for something and they get
• 26:39
  complacent, you're always gonna come back to that pain.
• 26:42
  Right?
• 26:42
  It's gonna be it's right there waiting for you if you don't continue to move forward.
• 26:46
  So for me, understanding what flow states are and how that's such a huge part of I think in
• 26:57
  my opinion, it's everything.
• 27:00
  It's it's what we're seeking in all of the things that we do.
• 27:03
  It gives our life meaning, right, in many ways.
• 27:08
  Like you, you found it in music and then it got a little stale, stagnant.
• 27:13
  And so you flip that.
• 27:14
  You switch to podcasting and interviewing people and you started to find that spark
• 27:18
  again.
• 27:19
  Right?
• 27:20
  Could you find that in music still?
• 27:22
  Hell, yeah.
• 27:23
  You could.
• 27:24
  But you gotta tweak it a little bit.
• 27:25
  You gotta you gotta tweak the challenge, and so it starts to challenge you again, right, in
• 27:33
  some way, if you wanted to.
• 27:35
  Right?
• 27:35
  Yeah.
• 27:35
  That's the ADHD.
• 27:37
  Right?
• 27:37
  Where it's like, I'm I'm I'm playing.
• 27:39
  I'm singing.
• 27:40
  I got my pedalboard in front of me.
• 27:41
  I'm running sound from the stage.
• 27:42
  I'm running the lights from the stage.
• 27:44
  Like, I'm doing like, literally, I'm on I could not be doing more physically than I am right
• 27:49
  now, and then you're like, this isn't enough.
• 27:51
  I need something else.
• 27:53
  Like
• 27:53
  Well and so the other part of that is you have to be really in touch with why you're doing
• 28:00
  anything.
• 28:02
  You know what I mean?
• 28:02
  Like, if the reason that I played sports was for the adoration, was for the applause, then
• 28:13
  eventually, you reach a pinnacle, and it's just like, well, okay.
• 28:17
  Now what?
• 28:18
  Right?
• 28:19
  There's no there's that's extrinsic motivation from outside of yourself, and that always
• 28:25
  always reaches a limit to where it's no longer motivating.
• 28:30
  You know, money is the classic example.
• 28:31
  It's like we it's very good motivator if you don't have any.
• 28:38
  If you are struggling to pay rent and pay your bills and you're living paycheck to paycheck,
• 28:45
  it sucks.
• 28:46
  Like, I've been there.
• 28:47
  It's not fun.
• 28:48
  It's very motivating to get out of that and to get to a place where you have enough money to
• 28:53
  cover everything.
• 28:54
  But once you get to a certain point, and I don't know what it is now.
• 28:57
  Ten, fifteen years ago, it was like $75,000 a year.
• 29:00
  Once you hit that point, you got everything covered, all your survival needs, food,
• 29:06
  shelter, whatever, your happiness doesn't increase anymore.
• 29:11
  It levels out.
• 29:12
  So you gotta find something else.
• 29:14
  So that's where extrinsic rewards no longer serve us to keep us motivated and keep us
• 29:21
  driven.
• 29:22
  So we gotta leverage our innate biology, and we gotta find intrinsic driven rewards.
• 29:29
  These are things like mastery.
• 29:32
  And when you're chasing mastery of a craft, then all of the extrinsic stuff doesn't matter.
• 29:39
  Right?
• 29:43
  I've John Mayer comes to mind here.
• 29:48
  A lot of people, a lot of my friends, macho guys are like,
• 29:52
  John Mayer.
• 29:53
  And they because all they've they've heard is daughters and, like, your body is a wonderland.
• 29:58
  But I'm like, bro, you need to go listen to his, like, catalog.
• 30:03
  His blues stuff.
• 30:05
  Like, he's a wizard on a guitar.
• 30:08
  And he has played so many different styles of music, and he changes himself up all the time
• 30:13
  because he is continually chasing mastery.
• 30:17
  Yeah.
• 30:17
  He's written some huge pop hits.
• 30:20
  Not for a long time now but
• 30:22
  Not for a long time because he kinda did that thing.
• 30:25
  Mastery.
• 30:26
  Yeah.
• 30:27
  But he continues Yeah. Going
• 30:28
  Going Why is he playing with the dead?
• 30:32
  He doesn't need to do that.
• 30:34
  He's touring all over the world with the dead.
• 30:38
  Like there's no notoriety there.
• 30:41
  There's no big I mean, he's probably getting a decent paycheck but that doesn't matter to him.
• 30:46
  You know what I mean?
• 30:47
  He's doing it because I've never actually been to a Grateful Dead show, so I can't actually
• 30:53
  say from experience.
• 30:53
  I have.
• 30:54
  But I know
• 30:54
  You got tattooed on my arm.
• 30:56
  I'm a huge deadhead.
• 30:57
  I know why you're chasing it.
• 30:58
  Right?
• 30:58
  Like, as a musician, I know because I've been in love with that music forever
• 31:03
  Yes.
• 31:03
  And everything that it meant.
• 31:05
  And I thought it was thrilling because I wasn't I had listened to he he released a couple of
• 31:11
  albums around the time I was in prison, and I really dug into those.
• 31:17
  The the name of the songs, you know, evading me now, but I remember the words all the time.
• 31:22
  And, it's just the wave is one of them.
• 31:25
  And That album my
• 31:27
  favorite album.
• 31:28
  Song, man.
• 31:30
  That whole album is incredible.
• 31:32
  Just
• 31:33
  Emoji of a wave, I think, is the actual
• 31:34
  Emoji of a wave.
• 31:35
  Yes.
• 31:36
  Yeah.
• 31:37
  And I think that explains flow state.
• 31:40
  Right?
• 31:40
  I mean, that's kind of what it's alluding to is, like, you know, you can't you're not
• 31:44
  necessarily in control of it, but there's things you can do to get yourself there.
• 31:49
  You know?
• 31:49
  You you Yep.
• 31:50
  But there's always, like there's a risk.
• 31:52
  Right?
• 31:53
  So you have to get in the pool to ever achieve flow state.
• 31:57
  And would you say that, like, the mental block to that is, like, people standing at the edge
• 32:00
  of a diving board.
• 32:01
  Right?
• 32:02
  And they're like, I can't.
• 32:03
  I can't.
• 32:03
  I can't.
• 32:04
  When you're literally one step away from doing it, it's right there, and you just can't take
• 32:11
  that step.
• 32:12
  That's the perfect analogy, Bubba, because we talked very briefly about this flow cycle.
• 32:20
  And flow is not a binary thing.
• 32:22
  It doesn't turn on or off.
• 32:23
  It always goes through a cycle, and those stages are struggle, release that we talked
• 32:29
  about with Einstein and letting it go, then flow.
• 32:33
  And then after you're done with the flow state, which is very demanding on your energy and your
• 32:38
  brain, you recover.
• 32:39
  You have to recover.
• 32:42
  So it always happens in this cycle.
• 32:44
  Now what you're talking about is the struggle phase, and this is where most people fail and
• 32:49
  why they don't have flow in their life is because they don't know how to struggle and
• 32:54
  struggle well and get through the struggle.
• 32:57
  When I was talking about that frustration earlier, that's part of it.
• 33:00
  Like, you're working on a problem and you're like your brain is, like, starting to increase
• 33:05
  the arousal and the stress chemicals and you're starting to, like, get so frustrated, that's a
• 33:11
  good sign.
• 33:12
  That means your brain is working hard and it's gathering all the information it can and it's
• 33:16
  holding all in your working memory and then you release it and let your brain go to work.
• 33:21
  Let the subconscious go to work, find the connections.
• 33:24
  It will solve the problem for you.
• 33:25
  K?
• 33:26
  That's like problem solving.
• 33:28
  Now when we talk about performance or a sport, and this is where action adventure sport
• 33:33
  athletes have been killing it in the game of flow for a long time because they understand
• 33:41
  the struggle phase.
• 33:43
  Take the diving board example.
• 33:45
  Yes.
• 33:45
  Most people, they wanna get there.
• 33:47
  They know on the other side it's flow, but it's scary.
• 33:52
  Now they did some research on this at the flow research collective in which they they they the
• 33:57
  the title of the paper was something about like the first two seconds of flow or something,
• 34:01
  like what's happening in the brain.
• 34:03
  And what they found was that in your brain, you have this area that has to choose what the
• 34:10
  fight or flight response.
• 34:12
  Like, you're backed into a corner, people coming at you, they want your money or to hurt
• 34:16
  your family, you're gonna you're gonna fight.
• 34:19
  Right?
• 34:20
  It's an instinct we all have to fight or flee.
• 34:24
  This is required for a flow state.
• 34:26
  You have to choose to fight.
• 34:30
  You have to get those chemicals, those stress chemicals all the way to the max.
• 34:36
  And where most people fail is they distract or they flee or they go do something else.
• 34:44
  It's too scary.
• 34:46
  I'm walking away from the diving board.
• 34:49
  Okay.
• 34:50
  It's your choice, but you don't get flow now.
• 34:53
  Right?
• 34:54
  So there is a there is a certain amount of risk.
• 34:57
  And again, when we understand that, we can tune the dials up and down, tune that risk trigger
• 35:03
  based on what your tolerance for risk is.
• 35:08
  The six foot diving board might be more than enough for one of my you know, well, it's
• 35:17
  probably way too much for one of my triplets.
• 35:19
  I have 18 old triplets.
• 35:21
  Oh, Yeah.
• 35:22
  So talk about challenge skills balance.
• 35:25
  Like, think we're a little bit off.
• 35:26
  Thank god.
• 35:27
  Thank god you've studied flow state.
• 35:30
  No doubt.
• 35:32
  Sidebar your diapers.
• 35:34
  If you want to see flow state, just watch a kid.
• 35:39
  Watch a kid playing around.
• 35:41
  They're in flow all the time.
• 35:43
  But Yeah.
• 35:44
  The reason I landed on the diving board analogy, Brandon, was because, I learned how to
• 35:50
  do backflips off a diving board at, like, 35 years old.
• 35:52
  Right?
• 35:53
  Nice.
• 35:53
  And, you know, doing and I started with the front flip, and I over rotate a couple times,
• 35:57
  smacked my face.
• 35:58
  The backflips, you know, took a while.
• 35:59
  They were ugly.
• 36:00
  My wife was always filming while they were ugly.
• 36:02
  Soon as I did wanna improve, I could do it repeatedly.
• 36:04
  The camera went down.
• 36:05
  She didn't care anymore.
• 36:06
  All all the kids were like, oh, do a backflip until I could do them regular, and they're
• 36:10
  like, yeah.
• 36:10
  Whatever.
• 36:11
  It's not that cool.
• 36:12
  You know?
• 36:13
  And so I started teaching my kids, like, hey.
• 36:15
  Front flip.
• 36:16
  This is kinda how you do it.
• 36:17
  I understand the body mechanics of this now.
• 36:19
  And, obviously, they were scared.
• 36:21
  Right?
• 36:22
  Like, they're they're so scared in that first time of running game.
• 36:24
  Well, the run up and then stop and then the run up and then stop.
• 36:27
  And I watched my, my my 12 and and just turned 13 year old last summer go from scared to do a
• 36:34
  front flip at the beginning of the year to throwing gainers and double front flips off the
• 36:40
  low dive by the end of this summer.
• 36:42
  Right?
• 36:43
  Yeah.
• 36:43
  And watch him challenge himself in that way, you know, throwing gainers.
• 36:48
  Because I was just always saying, hey, man.
• 36:49
  Well, try it.
• 36:50
  Just try it.
• 36:51
  Just keep going.
• 36:51
  I can't get it.
• 36:52
  I can't
• 36:52
  do it.
• 36:53
  I can't do it.
• 36:53
  I was like, the only thing stopping you from doing it is you saying that you can't do it
• 36:57
  because you can do it.
• 36:58
  Right?
• 36:59
  And watching him kinda learn that.
• 37:02
  And, you know, now he's like, cool.
• 37:04
  I can do it.
• 37:04
  Now you can do it.
• 37:05
  I was like, no.
• 37:06
  I can't do it.
• 37:06
  My ass is too bad.
• 37:09
  Oh, it's like, I the risk the risk isn't there.
• 37:11
  Right?
• 37:11
  I'm like, man, I'm almost 40.
• 37:14
  Judah is is my boy.
• 37:15
  Like, look, brother.
• 37:16
  I dubbed the back flips.
• 37:17
  I've learned how to do, you know, front flips.
• 37:19
  Now I've trained you guys, but, like, the risk reward isn't there for me to try and train
• 37:25
  myself to do a gainer.
• 37:26
  I'm not willing to go through
• 37:27
  That's the thing.
• 37:27
  I watched him smack him's face how many times, you know, getting three quarters of the way
• 37:33
  around that gainer, eating all this water up in his face, and I was like, I don't have that.
• 37:37
  Right?
• 37:37
  Like, I I don't have the ability to go through that.
• 37:40
  I'm gonna find other ways to challenge myself, but I'm pretty happy getting to come up to the
• 37:45
  diving board.
• 37:46
  And when the kids who haven't seen me do it are like, do a backflip.
• 37:49
  And I'm like, you know?
• 37:51
  Mhmm.
• 37:52
  Having that was good enough for me.
• 37:53
  Right?
• 37:54
  But not him.
• 37:54
  Yeah.
• 37:55
  He he kept pushing himself and kept pushing and kept pushing, and it was really cool to watch
• 37:59
  it in over the course of, like, a month of just, nope.
• 38:03
  I'm going to the pool today.
• 38:04
  I'm gonna get it.
• 38:05
  I'm gonna get it.
• 38:05
  I'm gonna get it.
• 38:06
  And but it had to he had to take that first leap.
• 38:10
  Right?
• 38:10
  He had to go out there and fail that first time miserably in that tenth time and that eightieth
• 38:16
  time.
• 38:17
  But, man, that eighty first time, he got it.
• 38:19
  And it was like, dude, you did it.
• 38:21
  Right?
• 38:21
  And now he's chasing
• 38:23
  Good feeling.
• 38:24
  Man.
• 38:24
  Yeah, man.
• 38:25
  It was awesome.
• 38:26
  As a dad, I think that's been one of my, like, most gratifying moments because Mhmm.
• 38:30
  It wasn't on me at all.
• 38:32
  Right?
• 38:32
  It was on you know, I encouraged him and, you know, I didn't train him how to do that.
• 38:37
  I had no idea.
• 38:37
  I'd seen little mechanical things that I was like, hey.
• 38:40
  Try this.
• 38:41
  Right?
• 38:41
  Like, you're not talking when you do this.
• 38:43
  You're like, you you gotta get a little more rotation or just like but I didn't do that.
• 38:47
  I there was nothing I could do for him.
• 38:50
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  You're hitting on a lot of, like so flow is pretty intuitive.
• 38:57
  Right?
• 38:58
  Especially if you've gone through some kind of skill training process like you did with music,
• 39:03
  also with sports.
• 39:04
  That's why I love sports so much.
• 39:06
  But also many, like, might say physical artistic pursuits, like learning an instrument.
• 39:14
  It's a progression.
• 39:15
  Right?
• 39:16
  And the the biggest my biggest pet peeve is people that are, like especially coaches and
• 39:26
  teachers that are expecting kids or others to be somewhere that they aren't.
• 39:35
  Right?
• 39:36
  Not meeting them where they're at and expecting, like, oh, you should know all of
• 39:40
  these scales by the end of next week.
• 39:42
  It's like there's too much challenge.
• 39:44
  We need to break the skill down more and when you break any skill down, the analogy I think
• 39:50
  is like a Buddhist analogy is like, an elephant, you know, is just one bite at a time
• 39:59
  or something like and there's this actually the story of this guy in France or somewhere that
• 40:04
  actually ate an entire airplane.
• 40:08
  Literally ate an airplane.
• 40:12
  So you take, like, one piece of metal and swallow it every day.
• 40:16
  And over time, he did that.
• 40:17
  But the point is is, like, you break skills down.
• 40:20
  And whatever as hard as something may seem, if you can break it down into smaller chunks that
• 40:26
  will fit both the challenge and the skill level that you currently have.
• 40:30
  If your skill level is zero, then you start with the most basic thing.
• 40:35
  Learn to approach and then jump on a diving board.
• 40:40
  That's day one.
• 40:41
  Like, do that.
• 40:43
  Nail that and then go on to the next thing.
• 40:45
  Increase the challenge a little bit.
• 40:47
  And for risk, your son's risk tolerance is a lot higher because he's got a malleable, like,
• 40:55
  smaller body that doesn't get injured as easily as your 35 or 40 year old body.
• 41:01
  Right?
• 41:02
  So, like, for me, yeah, I'm not going straight to a gainer off the diving board because I'm
• 41:07
  two hundred and twenty pounds and, like, I've been through a a full life at this point, maybe
• 41:14
  more than one lifetime that I've done to my body.
• 41:17
  So my risk tolerance is gonna be lower to start.
• 41:21
  Can we reach the same point?
• 41:24
  Absolutely.
• 41:25
  But maybe my path is a little bit further.
• 41:27
  And maybe my risk tolerance just ends at a certain point.
• 41:30
  I noticed after I had kids, my tolerance for risk and a lot of things changed, Like taking
• 41:38
  financial risks changed big time.
• 41:42
  Taking physical risks, you know, I used to be into skydiving, you know, I did a little rodeo
• 41:48
  back in my day, you know.
• 41:52
  A lot of the riskier sports, I don't do them anymore because it's not worth it to me anymore
• 41:59
  because now it's not about me.
• 42:01
  It's about way more than me as a father.
• 42:02
  So you gotta know where your risk tolerance is, and this is where action adventure sports have
• 42:08
  been killing it because they play with that trigger a lot.
• 42:12
  Like, standing on the edge of a black diamond on your skis or on your mountain bike, there's
• 42:20
  a big risk there.
• 42:21
  And, like, flow follows focus.
• 42:26
  You gotta have intense focus.
• 42:30
  And when the risk is higher, you get focused for free.
• 42:34
  That's the saying.
• 42:35
  This is why public speaking is such a flow rich activity in the, the cognitive realm because
• 42:45
  the risk, the social risk, or risk to your reputation is high, at least perceived.
• 42:53
  Right?
• 42:54
  So that's why it's intense.
• 42:57
  It's challenging.
• 42:58
  You get more flow there.
• 42:59
  A lot of athletes go into motivational speaking, public speaking of some kind.
• 43:04
  Podcasting, same thing.
• 43:06
  Like, there's there's a little bit of that risk there.
• 43:08
  You know?
• 43:11
  So when you start to understand these different triggers and depending on who you're talking
• 43:16
  to, there's anywhere from, like, 20 to 25 different triggers for individual flow.
• 43:21
  And then group flow is a is a different thing that's even more intense and impactful.
• 43:29
  So playing with a band, getting in touch with the crowd and connecting with the crowd, that
• 43:35
  elevates your experience way higher.
• 43:38
  Right?
• 43:39
  That's what John was chasing.
• 43:41
  Right?
• 43:41
  Yeah.
• 43:42
  Exactly.
• 43:42
  Because he had because
• 43:43
  he had attained it at such a high level in a studio because he could play all the
• 43:48
  instruments too.
• 43:48
  Right?
• 43:49
  He could do that.
• 43:49
  Oh, yeah.
• 43:50
  He got really good in that studio doing it.
• 43:52
  And then the chase became, well, how do you create that on this massive scale and connect
• 43:58
  with the crowd and connect with the band and to do that?
• 44:01
  Like, that's what he was chasing.
• 44:03
  Brandon, I've kept you long enough today.
• 44:06
  We could talk daily, I think, and still hit on stuff in this.
• 44:11
  I think it's incredible.
• 44:12
  But, obviously, you got triplets at home, and your time is extremely valuable to you.
• 44:17
  Share where everyone can find you before I let you go, and I'll make sure that we send anyone
• 44:23
  who needs this.
• 44:24
  Obviously, we touch so many artists and athletes now with the Scene Project Sports
• 44:29
  Network as well that would definitely be interested in in what you have to say and some
• 44:34
  of these services.
• 44:35
  So go ahead and plug away, man, and thanks thanks for taking some time for me today.
• 44:39
  This was this was brilliant.
• 44:41
  Yeah.
• 44:41
  No.
• 44:42
  Thank you, Bubba.
• 44:43
  This was fantastic.
• 44:44
  Really great conversation.
• 44:45
  You're a great interviewer, and I appreciate the space and the and the and the flow of it.
• 44:50
  So evolvedathlete.coach is my website where you can go kinda check out what neurotraining is
• 44:57
  all about.
• 45:00
  And some of the some of the other places I show up are, I have a school community.
• 45:06
  That's s k o o l.
• 45:08
  School.com/evolved.
• 45:12
  So you can join that for free.
• 45:14
  We also have some, you know, subscription based models where you get a little more access to me
• 45:18
  and our group training programs for flow states and neuro training and and my VIP coaching one
• 45:24
  on one stuff.
• 45:25
  You can find all the information there.
• 45:26
  You can follow me on Instagram at I am brandon day, all one word.
• 45:32
  And those are my three areas where I spend most of my time when I'm not watching little
• 45:36
  triplets run around and being flow all the time.
• 45:39
  Yeah.
• 45:39
  That's gotta be so much fun.
• 45:41
  My kids are a little bit older, but, you know, my wife has helped me raise children that
• 45:46
  weren't hers for a long time now.
• 45:49
  So we're talking about having another baby in the future, and that's kind of been my luck.
• 45:54
  We're like, we're talking about having one more, so we'll probably end up having three.
• 45:57
  Right?
• 45:57
  Probably.
• 45:58
  A time.
• 45:59
  Right?
• 45:59
  That would be our luck.
• 46:01
  Brandon, absolutely incredible stuff, man.
• 46:04
  We're putting together some some creator conferences.
• 46:07
  And when we get down into the the Southwest, I'm definitely gonna look you up and and have
• 46:12
  you jump in with us.
• 46:13
  So thanks for being part of the Scene Project Sports Network, and can't wait to chat with you
• 46:18
  again, man.
• 46:18
  This was a lot of fun.
• 46:20
  Yeah.
• 46:20
  Absolutely.
• 46:21
  Thanks, Bubba.
• 46:26
  SPSN.