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What do you want me to do for you?: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast the First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
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  to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
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  what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  The conversation you're about to join was inspired by our Spring
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  Mixtape 2025 non series sermon series.
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  Rather than a series, this will be a collection of sermons based
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  on what God is leading us to preach on this spring.
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  You can find out more information about our church at
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  fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
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  conversation. So this is your last one off
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  sermon for a while. How late in the week did you get
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  the the basis of the foundation for this week's sermon?
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  I think it was late Wednesday afternoon, it might have been
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  Thursday morning. I'm going to vote Thursday
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  morning. And how did that come about?
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  I took some time on Wednesday because I was feeling stressed
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  that I didn't have a sermon kind of in process.
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  Took some time to really just pray about it, think about it,
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  flipped through the Bible a little bit just to see, looked
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  at some things that I had been thinking about again that hadn't
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  really come together earlier in the week and still didn't feel
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  like they were the right thing. And so I went to the lectionary
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  readings for the week, which if people don't know what the
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  lectionary is, it's a three-year cycle that kind of makes sure
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  that churches that use it are kind of hitting all the the
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  major points in Scripture over a three-year period.
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  And some pastors always preach from one of the lectionary
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  passages. There's always a, an Old
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  Testament reading, a gospel reading, a reading from the
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  epistles and a Psalm that are a part of that.
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  And so there's some pastors who just take that as they're
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  preaching text each week. And so when I looked at that,
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  the Acts 11 passage about Peter reporting his experience with
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  Cornelius and the spirit was in there and that kind of got
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  things rolling. I forget somewhere in there the
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  idea of change came up and that's that's how we got there.
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  So so you open up talking about health and trying to shed, you
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  know, 100 lbs. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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  And picking as I think the phrase was similar to correct me
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  choosing which hard path. Yeah.
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  Choosing which hard as in like. You can suffer all the
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  consequences of not exercising and dieting and all those kinds
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  of things, or you can choose to eat broccoli and for Whole Foods
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  and and you know, be intentional about taking care of your diet
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  and not having all of the ice cream that your heart desires.
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  Or even half of it. Or even half of it, I said.
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  What's the most ice cream you've eaten in one sitting?
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  I don't know, I'm not like a big sit down all at once.
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  I just I like a little bit, but I like to eat it frequently.
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  Like throughout the day, like you just.
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  I don't know, just. Nightcap.
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  Yeah, there were spices. Yeah, good for you.
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  We're very on different structures.
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  I'm I'm like 99% sure at some point if not multiple points in
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  college I just ate an entire half gallon.
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  Oh gosh. Yeah, but I've, I've grown.
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  Yeah, grown me. Too.
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  That's the. Problem.
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  Yeah, more more outward than up. But what are other areas in
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  which we can? We have two options essentially,
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  we can go kind of the passive, which has hard consequences or
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  we have the hard intentionality that saves us from the poor
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  consequences. What are some areas in which we
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  can, as you discussed with all of the various stories, kind of
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  like team up with Jesus or partner or followers leading in?
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  Yeah. What are some other areas
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  besides physical health? I, I think most of the, the
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  practices of the Christian faith can fall into those either or
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  kind of categories like take Sabbath, for instance.
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  You know, it's I'm a better husband, pastor, father when I
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  am practicing Sabbath, when I do what God has already told me to
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  do and set aside a day to rest, to enjoy him, to do things that
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  fill me with delight with God. And so, but to do that, I have
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  to choose the hard of blocking out that time, right?
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  I have to protect that time. I have to prepare for that time
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  if it's going to be as meaningful as it could be and,
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  and just a lot of scheduling stuff.
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  It falls into that category. I, I could say yes to every
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  opportunity that comes up during a week, but then I'm going to to
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  suffer from the reality of being over busy and not having enough
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  margin in my life for God to really speak to me.
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  I'll just be running from one thing to the next.
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  I'll be exhausted. Yeah, I I like the the one quote
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  someone wise, I'm sure that said, if you're too busy for
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  God, you're busier than God intended you to be.
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  Yeah. And so, you know, sometimes we
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  have all the excuses, especially not just American culture, but
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  Northeastern culture of like busy, it's better.
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  It it is a sign of productivity. It's a sign of.
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  Yeah, it's a badge of honor, right?
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  Yeah. So that's one.
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  I, I think, you know, how we spend our money could easily be
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  another one where, you know, you can choose to, to put away some
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  money, have a little bit of savings so you can have some
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  buffer room in case of an emergency.
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  But that means you have to say no to some of the things you
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  want to do in any given moment or day to make that happen or.
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  The number in the account and then the thing you want is under
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  that number. So why not get the thing that
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  you want? Sure.
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  I mean, that is an option, but then, you know, somebody backs
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  into your car and you have to have it repaired in order to be
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  able to get to work the next day and so.
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  I've got your car one time, Scott.
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  It kind of even connects back to what I was preaching on a couple
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  weeks ago of like we kind of shove God and God time and all
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  that kind of stuff into the church, which makes it easy to
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  like compartmentalize it. It we can put all these other
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  areas of our life away from being affected by our faith or
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  from God and his will for us. What's an area that you struggle
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  like? Maybe the one that you are most
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  resistant, even if you weren't aware of your resistance of like
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  giving up to God in your lifetime.
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  All of them by by nature, I really don't like people telling
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  me what to do. And so I think he could define
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  my spiritual journey as as one of coming to various points of
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  surrender and, you know, giving up whatever might be the issue
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  at that time. That's that's been the journey
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  the whole way. You know, whether it's what I
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  was going to do with my life or if I was going to actually lean
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  into those things that that God has already told.
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  So that's a little bit when I talked a few weeks ago about the
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  year that rest was my word, and that passage from Jeremiah about
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  standing at the crossroads and asking for the ancient paths.
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  And if you walk in them, you'll you'll find rest.
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  That year was kind of another, a deeper invitation to lay aside
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  my preferences and my kind of natural rhythms, that kind of
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  stuff, too, to do the things that I know God has already told
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  me to do so that he could do what he wants to do in me.
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  What about for you? Is there, has there been like
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  one of those things, or has it been more like what?
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  You're probably better than me, though.
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  You probably probably haven't had to wrestle with it so much.
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  That's true, I I'm in 100% agreement with that statement.
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  I'm getting called from the wife back to me being better than
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  you. The more recent one that comes
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  to mind, I guess, like finances. Yeah, I feel like you tithe, you
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  give a little extra, bam, That's all that's being asked of you.
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  If all of me is supposed to be gods and he's provided all of
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  the ways in which I've been able to make money, then why wouldn't
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  all of it? Shouldn't all of it be at his
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  disposal? And so I feel like COVID ish,
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  somewhere in COVID era, there was a time where just like the
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  algorithm was getting me every single night as I was trying to
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  get to sleep, I was like, oh, this is 50 to 90% off.
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  Yeah, it's like you, you, you eventually wise up that they're
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  always 50% to 90%, that you're not saving as much money as you
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  think you're saving. But our so I got in in those
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  kinds of bad habits. And our young adults at one
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  point did a Lent challenge where you couldn't make any purchases
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  besides I think it's grocery and gas.
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  Those are like new purchases. You could, you know, pay for
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  medical things. Obviously you could pay for
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  continuing subscriptions and utilities.
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  And like I. Like your bills?
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  Your bills and all that kind of stuff, but groceries and gas
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  were the only new things you could get.
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  And so that means like before Lent, you prepped for like
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  toiletries and whatever else, cleaning supplies, whatever else
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  you need in the house for that time.
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  And then it's no purchasing. And so you're able to learn not
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  only the self-control, but as temptations and things come up
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  after those days, you realize like, Oh, I didn't really need
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  it. It was more of just like a, a
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  jump the gun purchase. And so it made you a little more
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  thoughtful about what you were buying.
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  I hope it's still kind of a journey like, you know, the all
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  these things are, but trying to get to a place where like each
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  purchase is with God in consideration because he
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  provides our needs and blesses us with more.
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  And so making sure that we're being good stewards with what
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  he's given us. But that one's been been a
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  tougher 1. And that's, that's part of the
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  part of the discipline of fasting, right, is that we're
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  learning to tell our body no, we're learning to tell our
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  desires no. So that way we're not just
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  constantly making decisions based on what we want in any
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  given moment. That's, that's a part of it.
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  And I think what you were talking about there with
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  finances as kind of the shift we see from the, from the Old
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  Testament to the New Testament, Old Testament kind of get that,
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  that focus on here's what the expectation is.
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  Here's the 10%. You know, this is what it means
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  to tithe. But then Jesus comes in and he
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  says, you know, really God owns it all and it's more about your
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  heart than about the actual 10%, right?
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  If he's given it all, then he should get a say in it all.
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  Yeah. And I think with all of these
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  areas, one of the questions that you posed that I think warrants
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  deeper reflection from those that are listening and listened
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  on Sunday is the do you want to be well?
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  Because I think there's a lot at play there that we probably
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  don't even have time in this podcast to get into depending on
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  people's views of themselves, views of God, histories and
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  relationships with different areas of Wellness.
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  I think that question is very profound.
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  And it's one of those things where if you're talking like
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  eating better and physical stuff, like it takes a long time
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  to see the results of that hard work.
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  And I think same thing as we've been doing practicing the way
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  course or we did practicing the way course is that it's doing
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  the practices we see Jesus doing for a long time to see the fruit
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  of how it transforms us and not to have what was the the quote
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  you always did like? It's not.
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  The practices aren't the means to an end.
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  Or no, they're not the end. They're the means to the end.
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  The end is becoming like Jesus. It's learning to love like
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  Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  The ultimate goal isn't doing the things, but the the fruit of
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  what they will bring. And I and I also, as you talked
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  about Naman, went in the Jordan River and that was viewed as
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  something below what someone of his position would do.
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  What is something in ministry you've done that maybe others
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  would view as beneath the pastor?
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  And it has been kind of a, a philosophy of ministry kind of
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  thing where I don't ever want to ask someone to do something that
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  I'm not willing to do myself, at least in some form or function.
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  But to, to think about the other day, just a few weeks ago, we
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  had finished up our service. We'd had communion that day.
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  And, you know, there were some bread crumbs in the sanctuary
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  where our servers were standing as they were handing out the
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  pieces of bread. And I, I ran and grabbed the
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  vacuum and was, you know, vacuuming up the bread crumbs.
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  And some people from Lamb of God were coming in as they were
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  getting ready for their service. Hello, Pastor, you shouldn't be
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  doing that. I was like, if Jesus can wash
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  feet, I can vacuum up communion crumbs.
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  So that was just, you know, one of those easy ones.
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  I'm not somebody so special that there's nothing I shouldn't be
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  willing to do. Yeah.
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  And I think that's tough within ministry since you touched on
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  like Jesus washing the feet and come to serve and not be served,
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  the balancing of leading with that mindset.
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  And then also, I think of like early church where they had to
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  find like the seven to help like feed and take care of people.
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  Like, you know, you have a place in position to do certain things
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  and God has provided and equipped other people within the
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  body to do other areas. So it's not that you have to do
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  all of the things, but like you said, be willing to do all of
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  the things with a, with a servant's heart.
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  Yeah. And so for me, the the struggle
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  is, you know, I have to recognize that as pastor in the
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  role that I fill within our congregation, like it's not
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  always the best use of my time to do all those things right.
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  And so I have to have had to learn, and I am still learning
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  to let go of some of that stuff that other people can do for the
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  sake of doing what God has called me to do.
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  And it seems, it seems counterintuitive, but there's a
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  sense of pride that I've had to lay down in letting other people
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  do those things. And not like, it seems like it's
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  a very humble thing, say, oh, no, no, no, I can do these
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  things. I can vacuum up broad crumbs, I
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  can fold bulletins, I can whatever.
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  But at some point there can be an inversion there, and that
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  actually becomes a prideful thing.
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  And so learning to let other people do what they can do, so
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  that I can do what I can do, and we can all fulfill what God is
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  calling us to do. Yeah, and it's good for the for
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  the health of the church, I think for others to be able to
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  know it and not all rely on Scott.
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  Because I remember when you left Trinity to come to Collingswood
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  every single day, literally every single day, like, oh, that
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  was a Scott thing. Can can someone call Scott or
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  text Scott? Like Scott knows that Scott
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  knows that. Oh, Scott knows how to do that.
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  Scott knows the person for this or that.
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  Like you just, you just and it wasn't, wasn't that you used or
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  abused your position. That's what you were supposed to
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  do within that. Part of that was my associate
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  role, right? Absolutely.
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  So that was like your role to do, but the church solely
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  depended on you to do that and didn't have an expectation for
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  anyone else to know or yeah, it it just wasn't set up well for
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  anyone else to know. And it was like things that some
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  of those things weren't even things that should have been in
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  your role. You just took them upon yourself
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  to help within the body. And so getting all the random
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  calls and we missed you. So we just found it.
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  So I was just thinking of like, the statistic of like 20 to 30%,
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  and it might be less than that, of like, church members do all
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  of the work, yeah. Statistics that gets thrown
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  around is 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
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  Yeah, it's like between committees and tech and like
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  you'll see that same kind of hub, hub of people.
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  And so when we get to like nomination time in the year for
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  nominating people for different committees and stuff like that,
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  it usually just ends up becoming the same people because usually
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  they're the willing ones and they're more familiar or
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  whatever it may be. And so to, but we want everyone
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  to have a voice within the body, but also, you know, different
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  people of different giftings and we want to be able to utilize it
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  so that people don't burn out doing a bunch of stuff just so
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  that's the stuff can get done, but be able to work together as
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  a body to accomplish what God is desiring for us.
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  Yeah, no, I mean that you're 100% right.
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  Thank you for joining us for this week's podcast.
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  We need everybody. That's the moral of the story.
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  I I don't know if you said this or if I question says what do
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  you want Jesus to do? Or I said, what do we want Jesus
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  to do for us? And I said more specifically,
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  what do you want Jesus to do for you?
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  Like kind of asking people to consider like, what what change
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  do they see needs to be made in their life that they might not
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  have the power to do? As a Francis Chan fanstan, there
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  was a quote from the book Crazy Love.
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  Overwhelmed by a relentless God, he says.
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  But God doesn't call us to be comfortable.
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  He calls us to trust Him so completely that we are unafraid
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  to put ourselves in situations where we will be in trouble if
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  he doesn't come through. And, and for me, it's just a
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  depth of faith and trust that he is faithful and that if he's
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  calling us to things that he will show up and be faithful to
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  us. What did that make you think of?
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  You pulled up something. Yeah, as you started talking, it
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  shifted a little bit as you went on, but just the idea that like
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  in preaching, we're called to comfort the afflicted and
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  afflict the comfortable. God is always working in our
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  lives. And when we settle into a
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  complacency with where we are, then, you know, can he still
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  move? Yes.
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  Does he do things to get our attention?
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  For sure. But so many times he'll let us
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  just kind of sit there and languish in that complacency
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  rather than continue to grow, and sometimes we need to be
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  challenged in that. So what would your challenge for
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  the listeners this week be? I think it's pretty similar to
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  to what I said in the in the sermon and it's, it's the idea
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  that God is working in somewhere in your life.
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  He wants to be, whether we're listening for it, looking for it
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  or not, he is working. There are things he wants to
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  change in US and, and would you take time to let him identify
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  that for you? And then would you be willing to
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  do whatever you need to do to cooperate with that, that grace
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  he's working in your life, right?
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  Because that's really what grace is.
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  We talk about grace a lot as like an unmerited gift of, you
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  know, it's God's favor towards us.
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  But essentially, grace is God's active work in our lives.
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  And so where is he working? Where is he pouring out that
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  grace? And will you do what you need to
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  do so that he can do what only he can do?
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  Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
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  the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
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  on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
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  we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
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  can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
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  Thanks for being part of this conversation.