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NANCY GUTHRIE MISSING 4 MONTHS, SEARCH AT CHILLING TURNING POINT · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:09
Speaker 1: Do you have any idea your dog was very likely
0:14
Speaker 1: foiling a kidnappers plan to take Nancy Guthrie out the
0:19
Speaker 1: back door.
0:19
Speaker 2: I mean they're out puppies. You know, this was not
0:21
Speaker 2: typical behavior at all.
0:23
Speaker 1: Many people believe bitcoin cannot be traced. The FBI believes
0:28
Speaker 1: that's their best lead.
0:30
Speaker 3: Every transaction is traceable, trackable, and immutable.
0:34
Speaker 4: In other words, it's there forever.
0:35
Speaker 1: There is a possibility more Google images are to come.
0:41
Speaker 1: We were told by Nanas at the Get Go Yeah,
0:44
Speaker 1: no video, she didn't have a subscription, and then bam,
0:47
Speaker 1: somehow Google makes a save. The perp insists that they
0:52
Speaker 1: know where missus Guphrie is. Who do you think this
0:56
Speaker 1: guy's hanging around with nuns and priests and virgins hgl
0:59
Speaker 1: n Oh, he's hanging around with people like the person
1:03
Speaker 1: that kidnapped Nancy Guthrie.
1:05
Speaker 5: She is eighty four years old.
1:07
Speaker 6: Her health, her heart is frascial in every hour and
1:12
Speaker 6: minute and second and every long night has been agony
1:17
Speaker 6: since then. She is without any medicine.
1:21
Speaker 5: She needs it to survive.
1:23
Speaker 1: We need your help joining us Tonight, Crime Stories investigative
1:27
Speaker 1: reporter Dave Matt Dave, what's the latest Nancy.
1:32
Speaker 7: We are now four months into the investigation of Nancy
1:36
Speaker 7: Guthrie's kidnapping, and believe it or not, we have new
1:39
Speaker 7: information to share right now. One, we just found out
1:43
Speaker 7: that Savannah Guthrie has used over a half million dollars
1:47
Speaker 7: of her own money to privately hire a security team
1:51
Speaker 7: investigators to look into the disappearance of her mother her
1:55
Speaker 7: own money. Now, some have determined that this means she
1:58
Speaker 7: lacks confidence in the investigation. It's not necessarily the case.
2:03
Speaker 7: Savannah Guthrie is a daughter who wants her mother back
2:07
Speaker 7: and she has the means to spend the money, so
2:09
Speaker 7: she has spent five hundred thousand dollars to hire a
2:12
Speaker 7: team of investigators to help find her mother. We also
2:17
Speaker 7: have found out Michael Ruiz Fox Digital reporter, who is
2:20
Speaker 7: on the ground in Arizona and has been covering this
2:23
Speaker 7: case since the beginning, he has insiders inside the investigation
2:27
Speaker 7: to tell him. The Pima County detectives are still investigating
2:31
Speaker 7: video footage from inside and outside Nancy Guthrie's home. Now
2:36
Speaker 7: we all know the video that's been released to the public.
2:39
Speaker 7: Porch guy right, Well, there might be more. They're still
2:44
Speaker 7: analyzing video footage. According to the Insider, also still analyzing
2:49
Speaker 7: forensic data found inside the home. Forensic evidence found inside
2:53
Speaker 7: Nanacy Guthrie's home.
2:55
Speaker 4: Still being looked at.
2:56
Speaker 7: Also, something else has come out Nancy as the online
3:00
Speaker 7: theories have really taken over, and you know, we're looking
3:03
Speaker 7: for why would it happen? Who had the motive and
3:06
Speaker 7: means to pull off this kidnapping? And many have thrown
3:10
Speaker 7: out an idea that the kidnappers were people known or
3:14
Speaker 7: person or people known to Nancy Guthrie. They're pointing now
3:19
Speaker 7: to this fact. Remember we had the ransom notes that
3:22
Speaker 7: came out early in the investigation. The FBI said some
3:26
Speaker 7: or probably nothing, but maybe one or two might have
3:28
Speaker 7: been real. Well, if you remember, the ransom notes were
3:33
Speaker 7: not followed up on. They were there was never a
3:35
Speaker 7: proof of life, There was never a follow up. That
3:39
Speaker 7: is leading some experts to believe that this kidnapping it
3:42
Speaker 7: was never about money. It was never about getting instant wealth,
3:46
Speaker 7: you know, digital currency. It was never about that. The
3:49
Speaker 7: fact that there is a lack of follow up on
3:52
Speaker 7: the ransom notes indicates to some experts this was personal.
3:57
Speaker 7: Now that breaks the case in a whole different direction.
4:01
Speaker 7: So the update possible just a personal kidnapping for personal
4:07
Speaker 7: revenge or something. But we also have five hundred thousand
4:11
Speaker 7: dollars being spent by Savannah Guthrie on private investigation. And
4:16
Speaker 7: we have Michael Ruiz Fox Digital reporter his sources indicating
4:20
Speaker 7: that the Pima County detectives are still investigating video footage
4:25
Speaker 7: found inside the home of Nancy Guthrie. That's the latest
4:30
Speaker 7: on what's happening in the Guthrie investigation after four months.
4:34
Speaker 1: So tonight, in addition to a re review of video
4:40
Speaker 1: footage from not only that Uber driver, but from Anny
4:44
Speaker 1: Guthrie's vehicle to determine not just what was missus Guthrie wearing,
4:50
Speaker 1: what was her demeanor? Did she look ill? Was she concerned?
4:54
Speaker 1: Not just that looking for the vehicle? And that is
4:58
Speaker 1: going to require a lot, a lot of enhancement of
5:01
Speaker 1: the video, god willing the video still there. We also
5:05
Speaker 1: learned that fresh Eyes are reviewing the evidence from the Feds.
5:11
Speaker 1: Not only is that video being reviewed as we go
5:14
Speaker 1: to air, we learn that Annie Guthrie herself provided the
5:20
Speaker 1: route she believes the killer used that night. Let's think
5:24
Speaker 1: a look at it straight out to Dave Matt Crime
5:26
Speaker 1: story's investigative reporter. What is this? Where did it come from?
5:30
Speaker 8: This?
5:30
Speaker 7: Actually, Annie Guthrie was in a group chat online with
5:34
Speaker 7: neighbors and sent this map to them at the beginning
5:39
Speaker 7: of the investigation. Nancy, this was put out there early
5:42
Speaker 7: hoping that somebody might have seen something or had video along.
5:47
Speaker 7: You see the blue map line there, that somebody along
5:51
Speaker 7: that way could look through their video. I mean, this
5:53
Speaker 7: is really an incredible source of information from Annie Guthrie
5:58
Speaker 7: coming up with what she thought was the plan or
6:01
Speaker 7: the route rather taken by on the way home. So
6:06
Speaker 7: they're looking for anyone along this pathway, you know, that
6:10
Speaker 7: might have seen something. It's curious when you really get
6:16
Speaker 7: into this that she's marked different addresses along the way.
6:20
Speaker 7: It's just an incredible piece of information that Annie Guthrie
6:24
Speaker 7: offered to this group with neighbors talking about the area.
6:28
Speaker 1: You know, if this route is real, if this is
6:33
Speaker 1: the route the killer took straight out to you. Cheryl
6:35
Speaker 1: McCollum joining US crime scene investigator of a many years,
6:40
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, and star of Zone seven, Okay,
6:43
Speaker 1: what do we do with it? This is the route
6:45
Speaker 1: that Annie Guthrie is allegedly convinced the killer used. It's
6:50
Speaker 1: full of evidence, Nathy.
6:55
Speaker 8: When you're looking at this map and you see all
6:57
Speaker 8: the places, the nail salon, I mean, you've got tons
7:00
Speaker 8: of businesses, You've got residential areas. I would not number one.
7:05
Speaker 8: I would not limit my investigation to this map, but
7:08
Speaker 8: I would certainly go through it based on what her
7:11
Speaker 8: daughter believes could be a route. We are over eighty
7:14
Speaker 8: days into this thing and we don't have a legitimate
7:17
Speaker 8: video of a vehicle. You've got to ask yourself, why,
7:21
Speaker 8: how is that possible? With all of these intersections that
7:24
Speaker 8: we know have cameras. It's the gas stations, the churches,
7:27
Speaker 8: the businesses. How do we not have a vehicle? Well, Nancy,
7:32
Speaker 8: as you know, I was out there, and here's what
7:35
Speaker 8: I can tell you. At any given point, almost you
7:40
Speaker 8: could take a hard right or a hard left and
7:42
Speaker 8: cut through little parts of the desert.
7:45
Speaker 1: It's vast, it's open.
7:47
Speaker 8: You don't have to go through that intersection if you
7:49
Speaker 8: don't want to. You can go right through parts of
7:53
Speaker 8: the land and avoid some of these places. So again,
7:58
Speaker 8: we know at one time twenty seven he's at the
8:02
Speaker 8: front door. We know by two twenty nine the app
8:06
Speaker 8: has disconnected to her watch.
8:09
Speaker 1: We have a timetable.
8:11
Speaker 8: There's no way at this point, after eighty days, they
8:15
Speaker 8: can't pinpoint one mile away in that circumference and not
8:19
Speaker 8: catch him somehow. And I think with all the planning,
8:24
Speaker 8: he avoided those cameras.
8:26
Speaker 1: You know, he avoided those cameras, sheeryly. I hear what
8:28
Speaker 1: you're saying, but it's also a non secretary. Doesn't make
8:32
Speaker 1: sense if he did all that camera avoidance, and how
8:35
Speaker 1: come he didn't know the camera on her front porch work.
8:38
Speaker 8: I don't think he cared because again he's not in
8:41
Speaker 8: a hurry. He knows he's completely covered. He knows there's
8:44
Speaker 8: no connection to her. They don't know who he is.
8:47
Speaker 8: She doesn't know who he is. Again, after eighty days,
8:50
Speaker 8: we don't know who he is. So he didn't have
8:53
Speaker 8: a jammer, otherwise he wouldn't be acting like he did.
8:57
Speaker 8: I don't believe he had an accomplice. If he did,
8:59
Speaker 8: why is he the only one called on video over
9:02
Speaker 8: multiple days and multiple times? Why is he the only
9:06
Speaker 8: one we see dressed the same and the only thing
9:09
Speaker 8: that changes on the thirtieth he now has a weapon
9:12
Speaker 8: and a backpack. He came mission ready on that day.
9:16
Speaker 8: He was ready that day the days before chasing the
9:21
Speaker 8: joint laying out his plan.
9:23
Speaker 1: Let's look in depth at the route Annie Guthrie identified
9:28
Speaker 1: as the killer's route. Let's start with Lulu Walker Elementary
9:33
Speaker 1: School first. Out to you, ryf at s Gibbons. Take
9:37
Speaker 1: a look at that. You know they've got to have
9:41
Speaker 1: cameras on the map is to the far left. See
9:45
Speaker 1: that it's on the frontage. In other words, it faces
9:49
Speaker 1: the street. They have got to have cameras all over.
9:54
Speaker 1: What do you make of it?
9:57
Speaker 9: Yeah, in this map was provided by Annie Guthrie out
10:02
Speaker 9: to the public in an effort to generate video tips.
10:06
Speaker 9: Right to identify a route and say hey, any private
10:09
Speaker 9: residences and individuals that may have captured video, send this
10:13
Speaker 9: in right away.
10:14
Speaker 10: Now.
10:14
Speaker 9: To your point about the elementary school, we've got public
10:18
Speaker 9: locations like a school library, and then you have private
10:22
Speaker 9: businesses along that route, pharmacies, gas stations, things like that
10:27
Speaker 9: that undoubtedly captured video at that time. And I think
10:32
Speaker 9: we've talked a lot about a lot of the missteps here,
10:35
Speaker 9: getting this route information out was not one of them.
10:38
Speaker 9: This would help generate that those leads and help people
10:42
Speaker 9: to save that video before it expired.
10:46
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, there is a plethora of information. Look at
10:50
Speaker 1: the elementary school. What do you see?
10:55
Speaker 10: Well? I can see four points or at least probably
10:59
Speaker 10: multiple more than four points of where cameras could be positioned,
11:04
Speaker 10: and it's going to have a field of visual visual perspective.
11:11
Speaker 10: Here's the thing. When you take a look at this
11:13
Speaker 10: and these cameras, if they're working and we've run into
11:17
Speaker 10: that before, have we not, on each corner of the building,
11:21
Speaker 10: these cameras, they're field of view will be intersecting. Okay,
11:26
Speaker 10: so if you think about if you think about the
11:30
Speaker 10: vision that a camera has as it goes out, it
11:33
Speaker 10: kind of expands, right, So each one of these points
11:37
Speaker 10: will intersect with the other. The cool thing about this
11:41
Speaker 10: from let's just say from the perspective of the school,
11:44
Speaker 10: that these things are going to be overlapping, all right,
11:47
Speaker 10: They're going to overlap, and you can catch If you
11:50
Speaker 10: can't catch it from one, you can catch it from
11:52
Speaker 10: the other. I'm talking about the color description of the vehicle.
11:56
Speaker 10: And in addition to that, you might be able to
12:00
Speaker 10: get a hit on a license plate. Relative to all
12:02
Speaker 10: of this, So these fields of view, if you will
12:07
Speaker 10: are intersecting or overlapping of one another. And this is
12:10
Speaker 10: on obviously a main thoroughfare here. We're talking about a school, right,
12:15
Speaker 10: so parents are coming and going, you know, throughout the
12:18
Speaker 10: day they're gonna have circle. You know that you have
12:20
Speaker 10: to pass through drop these kids off. And nowadays, with
12:24
Speaker 10: the way schools are, security is at the top of
12:27
Speaker 10: their list. So hopefully these cameras are all functioning. Hopefully
12:31
Speaker 10: they're sensitive enough to pick up on any critical data,
12:35
Speaker 10: you know.
12:35
Speaker 1: Fits after there have been a number of to say
12:39
Speaker 1: euphemistically putting perfume on the pig, miss steps translation, screw ups.
12:47
Speaker 1: Is there a way to make a save on this case?
12:51
Speaker 9: I think there is. There's been a tremendous amount of
12:56
Speaker 9: leads generated, a tremendous amount of digital evidence. Important to
13:00
Speaker 9: remember here, there's a game clock on here. In the
13:03
Speaker 9: game clock for the public eighty eight days and for
13:06
Speaker 9: the Guthrie family it's tremendously heartbreaking. But the FBI controls
13:12
Speaker 9: that game clock, not the perpetrator of this crime, and
13:15
Speaker 9: they have an unlimited amount of time in resources to
13:19
Speaker 9: go through this evidence and find who did this crime. Okay,
13:25
Speaker 9: So that's an important piece to remember.
13:27
Speaker 6: Here.
13:27
Speaker 9: I don't think hope is lost that justice can be
13:30
Speaker 9: served in this case.
13:32
Speaker 1: And the latest missive sent again to our friend Harvey
13:35
Speaker 1: Levin at TMZ. The perp, one of them insists, while
13:40
Speaker 1: they're not the kidnapper, according to them, that they know
13:43
Speaker 1: where missus Guthrie is and they seem very angry that
13:48
Speaker 1: they have been dismissed. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
13:53
Speaker 1: Listen to Harvey Levin at TMZ describing the note.
13:59
Speaker 11: We got another letter today from this person, an email
14:04
Speaker 11: saying I know where her body is and who the
14:07
Speaker 11: kidnapper is. Give us, give me half a bitcoin and
14:11
Speaker 11: I'll tell you. And this person has been really persistent,
14:15
Speaker 11: knowing that if it's a scam, it's a federal crime.
14:20
Speaker 1: Right that from our friends at TMZ. That's Harvey Levin
14:24
Speaker 1: on TMZ Live. Dave Mac what the hey. Now, let's
14:29
Speaker 1: be clear, Savannah and I believe that she conferred with
14:33
Speaker 1: the FBI before she stated this. Says that she believes
14:37
Speaker 1: two of the ransom notes are real. Let's divide it up.
14:42
Speaker 1: You've got the deadline notes, the original ransom notes to
14:46
Speaker 1: which she is referring, where the person says I have
14:49
Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie. They give information details about the interior of
14:53
Speaker 1: her home, and they state they want bitcoin. We'll call
14:56
Speaker 1: that the deadline. Okay, then we'll call the the other
15:01
Speaker 1: notes that Harvey Levin has just gotten. We'll call that
15:05
Speaker 1: the hyena, because he is trying to capitalize on a
15:10
Speaker 1: horrific crime by claiming he can give information about Missus
15:15
Speaker 1: Guthries whereabouts. So we've got the deadline notes, the ransom notes,
15:19
Speaker 1: and then the hyena. Now this is why at the
15:23
Speaker 1: get Go many of us here on the panel tonight
15:26
Speaker 1: believed that two of the ransom notes could be real,
15:29
Speaker 1: and we learned from Savannah that she thinks the saying listen.
15:33
Speaker 6: The two notes that we received that we responded to.
15:39
Speaker 6: I tend to believe those are.
15:40
Speaker 1: Real from our friends at today on YouTube, and I
15:44
Speaker 1: guarantee you, knowing Savannah from our days at Court TV,
15:48
Speaker 1: she would not go rogue and say something that disagreed
15:51
Speaker 1: with the FBI analysis, So I agree with her. So
15:54
Speaker 1: we've got those, and then we've got the hyena. Tell
15:58
Speaker 1: me about the note Harvey received, Dave mac.
16:03
Speaker 7: These are from the rat that wants a bitcoin to
16:06
Speaker 7: rat out the guys, the people who have kidnapped, allegedly
16:11
Speaker 7: Nancy Guthrie. Now in there were two notes sent Nancy.
16:15
Speaker 7: In one of the notes, this individual says that he
16:20
Speaker 7: had mentioned in an earlier and some note Nancy that
16:22
Speaker 7: he had seen Nancy Guthrie in the presence of the kidnappers.
16:25
Speaker 7: This time he goes a step further and says, I
16:29
Speaker 7: saw her with the kidnappers in Sonora, Mexico.
16:33
Speaker 1: Well, you're right, Dave Matt take a listen to Harvey Levin.
16:36
Speaker 11: But they also made the point that they wanted to
16:38
Speaker 11: make it clear that they have nothing to do with it. Right,
16:40
Speaker 11: they've been out of the country, but who knows.
16:43
Speaker 1: We forward and we forwarded.
16:45
Speaker 5: To the FBI, right as we have in the past.
16:48
Speaker 1: Dave mac I like your characterization that we had used earlier.
16:51
Speaker 1: The rat he wants to rat out. The real kidnapper
16:55
Speaker 1: joining us is renounced psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction,
16:59
Speaker 1: doctor Bethanie Marshall. She is the author of deal Breaker
17:03
Speaker 1: and she is now starring on Bravo and Peacock and
17:07
Speaker 1: you can find her at Dr Bethanymarshall dot com. You
17:10
Speaker 1: know what the irony, doctor Bethany, there's so much. But
17:15
Speaker 1: Savannah has to wake up every morning dealing with a
17:19
Speaker 1: the kidnapper and now be the hyena slash rat that
17:24
Speaker 1: is trying to make money off missus Guthrie or her body.
17:29
Speaker 1: And he's very careful to state now I had nothing
17:33
Speaker 1: to do with it. I just want to make money
17:35
Speaker 1: off of it. I mean, the gall.
17:39
Speaker 12: But you know, Nancy, if he wants to make money
17:41
Speaker 12: off of this, it suggests that maybe he knows the
17:44
Speaker 12: kidnappers because he himself is a part of a criminal enterprise.
17:49
Speaker 13: So I would think that if he makes his identity
17:52
Speaker 13: known that that would be more daunting to him or
17:57
Speaker 13: threatening to him than facing other kinds of charges for
18:02
Speaker 13: obstructing justice.
18:04
Speaker 12: It's kind of hard to say, but I just think
18:06
Speaker 12: he's sort of one of them that is broken away
18:09
Speaker 12: from the pack, and now he wants to kind of
18:11
Speaker 12: profit off the knowledge that he has.
18:16
Speaker 1: It's so easy to go down the vortex of Savannah's pain,
18:24
Speaker 1: her family's pain, so near the surface and so obvious tonight,
18:30
Speaker 1: How do we catch this piece of crap that has
18:36
Speaker 1: done this to the Guthrie family, to David Richard's founder
18:41
Speaker 1: CEO blockchain unmasked, How do we trace a the email,
18:47
Speaker 1: b the bitcoin account that he has provided.
18:53
Speaker 14: Sure, email can be traced through what we consider open
18:56
Speaker 14: source intelligence. You're searching the exact address us the web,
19:00
Speaker 14: public data breaches, looking for the same username on other sites,
19:04
Speaker 14: social media, other sign ups that this individual could have used.
19:09
Speaker 14: That's the email. More specifically, if you've got the info
19:14
Speaker 14: inside the actual email header, header analysis can show routing,
19:18
Speaker 14: path or server info. Although currently spoofing technology does exist
19:23
Speaker 14: and make it a little bit tricky.
19:24
Speaker 1: Slow down, explain that place spoofing technology.
19:28
Speaker 14: Sure, given the level of technology nowadays, spoofing an email
19:34
Speaker 14: address making it appear as though it came from Nancy
19:38
Speaker 14: Grace dot com is possible. However, it is also possible
19:42
Speaker 14: to dig deeper into that header analysis, route and path
19:45
Speaker 14: and server info to determine where an email actually could
19:49
Speaker 14: have come from.
19:51
Speaker 1: Okay, that's looking trying to track the email. And I'm
19:56
Speaker 1: not sure how this guy has met and the actual
20:01
Speaker 1: ransomer has managed to stump the FBI. How are they
20:06
Speaker 1: doing it? David Richards, Well.
20:08
Speaker 14: I don't have specific details, but I can assume that
20:11
Speaker 14: there are certain email addresses email platforms that one can
20:17
Speaker 14: sign up to remain anonymous. To not provide any information
20:20
Speaker 14: that you or I would use on for example of Google,
20:24
Speaker 14: no real names, no real information. It can just be
20:27
Speaker 14: what would be considered a burner account. So that is
20:30
Speaker 14: possible here.
20:31
Speaker 1: Well, how do you track burner accounts?
20:35
Speaker 14: Well, it's no different than blockchain. The more interact the
20:40
Speaker 14: more correspondence, the more data points you have can add
20:44
Speaker 14: to the ability to track an account the platform providing
20:48
Speaker 14: that burner.
20:50
Speaker 1: You just told me something really important, Well, it was
20:52
Speaker 1: all important. I'm trying to ingest everything that you're saying.
20:57
Speaker 1: It's like drinking from the fire hydrant a lot at once.
21:01
Speaker 1: But you said, the more communications, the more likely it
21:04
Speaker 1: is they can trace him. And according to Harvey Levin,
21:07
Speaker 1: who have no reason to doubt, he's been contacting them incessantly.
21:11
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that help?
21:14
Speaker 14: It could help the problem with Harvey is that he
21:17
Speaker 14: may not have the tools or the knowledge to gather
21:20
Speaker 14: what might need to be gathered. FBI or federal law
21:23
Speaker 14: enforcement would be coming in as a second party versus
21:28
Speaker 14: controlling those communications.
21:32
Speaker 1: Well, he's been handing it all over to the FBI,
21:35
Speaker 1: So I assume they've got all the information.
21:37
Speaker 14: David, sure, And that's a little bit different. If FBI
21:41
Speaker 14: were actually controlling the information and the exchange of information
21:46
Speaker 14: versus going through a third party, they're still outside looking
21:49
Speaker 14: in in that instance. That said, it's still completely possible
21:54
Speaker 14: that this individual is using a burner email account.
21:59
Speaker 1: Can email it can't be traced.
22:02
Speaker 14: Through clever counterintelligence tools? Sure, yes, it can.
22:06
Speaker 1: Be what counterintelligence tool?
22:11
Speaker 14: Federal law enforcement, including other investigators like ourselves do have
22:15
Speaker 14: tools metadata from online interactions, and that includes on the blockchain.
22:22
Speaker 1: Okay, that's how to find the email, But how do
22:25
Speaker 1: trace the email? How do you trace the actual bitcoin account?
22:31
Speaker 14: Sure? So, a bitcoin account, I'm sure you've heard it
22:34
Speaker 14: a lot, is anonymous until the flow of funds reaches
22:38
Speaker 14: a centralized portal. I consider this similar to the DMV.
22:42
Speaker 14: You and I can see the license plate numbers, but
22:44
Speaker 14: only the DMV or law enforcement knows who's behind those numbers.
22:49
Speaker 14: Blockchain is no different. So we do need transactions in
22:54
Speaker 14: order to end up determining a flow of funds to
22:57
Speaker 14: a destination that does collect this type with information.
23:02
Speaker 1: Well, what if Harvey eleven put in, say three hundred
23:05
Speaker 1: dollars or does the have to move the three hundred dollars?
23:12
Speaker 14: Yes, in this instance the money would have to move,
23:15
Speaker 14: and again it would have to reach a place where
23:18
Speaker 14: law enforcement can submit subpoena warrant in order to gather
23:22
Speaker 14: the appropriate information around that user. If it's on chain, it.
23:27
Speaker 1: Remains if it goes to another country. If it's transferred
23:30
Speaker 1: to another country, less likely because other countries do not
23:34
Speaker 1: have reporting regulations the way the US does.
23:39
Speaker 14: Admittedly, they don't have to respond to federal law enforcement
23:42
Speaker 14: and our work on a daily basis with federal law enforcement.
23:46
Speaker 14: Non US entities can sometimes refuse, although they will also
23:51
Speaker 14: participate in many investigations.
23:54
Speaker 1: What's the chance that right now, David Richards, as we
23:56
Speaker 1: go to air tonight, there is somebody and some either
24:01
Speaker 1: in Tucson, Phoenix or Quantico, some office with those horrible
24:07
Speaker 1: overhead lights on trying to figure this out, trying to
24:12
Speaker 1: trace that email, trying to trace that bitcoin account. I'd
24:16
Speaker 1: say one hundred to nothing.
24:19
Speaker 14: Absolutely, I've got all the we work with federal law
24:22
Speaker 14: enforcement all day, every day, and I've got all the
24:23
Speaker 14: faith and confidence that the most intelligent people in the
24:27
Speaker 14: world and the country are on this. So the odds
24:30
Speaker 14: are well over one hundred percent.
24:32
Speaker 1: There is a possibility. More Google images are to come.
24:38
Speaker 1: We were told by Nanas at the Get Go Yeah
24:41
Speaker 1: no video she didn't have a subscription. And then bam, somehow,
24:44
Speaker 1: out of literally trillions of data points, Google makes a
24:49
Speaker 1: save and finds this video. And not just this video
24:54
Speaker 1: from the night Missus Guthrie was kidnapped, but video from
24:58
Speaker 1: an earlier date we believe, January eleven. Where the same guy.
25:05
Speaker 1: You can tell by his gait, his weight, his height,
25:08
Speaker 1: same outfit. It's not a twin, it's him. It's very
25:15
Speaker 1: casually casing Missus Guthrie's home. This freak was outside her
25:22
Speaker 1: home checking it out jan eleven. If it weren't for Google,
25:28
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know this, opening up countless possibilities of other evidence,
25:34
Speaker 1: probit of evidence, cell phone data, doorcam, you name it
25:39
Speaker 1: from Jan eleven and joining us right now a special guest.
25:43
Speaker 1: It's Airy red Board. Airy red Board is the global
25:48
Speaker 1: head of Policy Government Affairs trm Labs, the blockchain intelligence company.
25:55
Speaker 1: He is a former Assistant US Attorney in the DC
25:58
Speaker 1: Jurisdiction and former senior Advisor to the Undersecretary for Terrorism
26:03
Speaker 1: and Financial Intelligence. You can find him at trmlabs dot com.
26:09
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about what we are
26:11
Speaker 1: learning tonight that there are other images they're trying to
26:16
Speaker 1: save them as we go to air tonight. How can
26:19
Speaker 1: that be?
26:20
Speaker 4: You know, Nancy, it's extraordinary.
26:22
Speaker 3: And when I first saw those videos a few weeks ago,
26:24
Speaker 3: it took my breath away. This idea that there could
26:26
Speaker 3: be no subscription, the actual camera could have been disabled,
26:30
Speaker 3: and Google is still able to generate these really extraordinary
26:35
Speaker 3: chilling images, just to me speaks to the ability of
26:38
Speaker 3: the private sector in many respects.
26:40
Speaker 4: Here.
26:40
Speaker 3: Google is the example to have just an extraordinary amount
26:45
Speaker 3: of data that can be used in these cases. Look,
26:47
Speaker 3: I think if and it'll be when this case is
26:50
Speaker 3: ultimately solved, it will be because of the digital evidence
26:54
Speaker 3: in the case, whether it's cryptocurrency tracing or whether it's
26:56
Speaker 3: this type of evidence from Google, And to me, it's
26:59
Speaker 3: just extraordinary.
27:00
Speaker 1: Aery, How are they doing it? And if they are
27:02
Speaker 1: doing it, why don't we already have it?
27:05
Speaker 3: Look, it's really it's really hard to say. They're obviously
27:09
Speaker 3: they obviously have these this data in various servers, you know,
27:13
Speaker 3: is it taking significant time to find it?
27:15
Speaker 4: Likely?
27:15
Speaker 3: I quite frankly can't believe that it exists at all.
27:18
Speaker 3: In many respects. And that's why I said, when I
27:20
Speaker 3: first saw this video, it really took my breath away.
27:23
Speaker 3: The fact that we're now able to get this type
27:25
Speaker 3: of information even without a subscription, even when this machine
27:28
Speaker 3: is disabled.
27:30
Speaker 4: It ultimately could be what cracks this case.
27:33
Speaker 1: Okay, Aery Redboard, you are the expert. I hate to
27:40
Speaker 1: throw you in the same pot to stee with Nanos
27:43
Speaker 1: who said, yeah, there's no videos. She didn't have a subscription,
27:46
Speaker 1: But yet there is, and we're learning there's more, and
27:52
Speaker 1: they're trying to rehabilitate it, resurrect it. Right now, there
27:59
Speaker 1: is more video. Now do you believe, after your extensive
28:04
Speaker 1: work as an assistant US attorney in DC, that they
28:09
Speaker 1: have video and they're not releasing it for some reason.
28:12
Speaker 3: Law enforcement is very usually thoughtful about the way they
28:16
Speaker 3: release information.
28:17
Speaker 10: Here.
28:17
Speaker 3: They released that initial video because we needed an image
28:20
Speaker 3: of this individual to put out there in the world.
28:22
Speaker 3: They have that image out there, assuming there's not a
28:25
Speaker 3: better image of this individual than Maybe these are really
28:28
Speaker 3: critical investigative leads that you don't necessarily you want to
28:31
Speaker 3: share with the public. Law enforcement is always thinking about
28:34
Speaker 3: what do we need to put out publicly to help
28:36
Speaker 3: our investigation from a crowdsourcing perspective, and what should we
28:39
Speaker 3: be holding back in order to not share what we
28:42
Speaker 3: have necessarily with the suspect and not hurt any other leads.
28:46
Speaker 1: You know another thing, Ariy Redboard joining us from TRM Labs.
28:52
Speaker 1: I believe that the reason the first guy was pulled
28:57
Speaker 1: over and questioned was because he made multiple deliveries in
29:02
Speaker 1: missus Guthrie's home. He's a delivery person and they got
29:06
Speaker 1: that from cast Sale Analysis Survey team by a data
29:11
Speaker 1: dump of all of the cell phones in that area.
29:15
Speaker 1: Then we have neighbors, so to speak in the loose
29:18
Speaker 1: sense of the word. Way down from Miss Guthrie. Their
29:22
Speaker 1: vehicles were seized, they were rousted out of their home
29:26
Speaker 1: at night. They were also questioned and released because I
29:31
Speaker 1: think their cell phones had movement in those hours between
29:35
Speaker 1: midnight and four am. I think that targeted them. Tell
29:40
Speaker 1: me what the FBI is doing now to track down
29:45
Speaker 1: any red flags in the cell phone data dump and
29:49
Speaker 1: the Wi Fi data dump. It's happening right now. What
29:52
Speaker 1: are they doing ery.
29:54
Speaker 4: They're doing a lot.
29:55
Speaker 3: They're looking at every possible piece of data that they
29:58
Speaker 3: can on any phone that they have siated with this,
30:01
Speaker 3: they're trying to triangulate location. Right, It's not just the
30:04
Speaker 3: cell phones, it's where they're hitting off those cell towers.
30:07
Speaker 3: And essentially what you want to understand is, you know, hey,
30:10
Speaker 3: who was in this location at this time based on
30:13
Speaker 3: this nestcam footage, and they're really trying to triangulate. Now,
30:17
Speaker 3: there's likely a lot of people who are in this
30:20
Speaker 3: general location, and that's why we've seen some of these stops.
30:23
Speaker 3: But the reality is those are going to continue.
30:26
Speaker 1: Ary Redboard. You told us previously that you would need
30:30
Speaker 1: to see a substantial sum of money transferred from the
30:35
Speaker 1: bitcoin account in order to track it. Well, I disagree
30:40
Speaker 1: because I think there are other ways to track it.
30:42
Speaker 1: But that's just me When you say substantial, how about
30:46
Speaker 1: a small amount of money? Why do you need a
30:49
Speaker 1: substantial amount of money to track the bitcoin?
30:52
Speaker 3: You need any amount of funds going into the account. However,
30:56
Speaker 3: what you're ultimately going to see there is likely funds
30:58
Speaker 3: going from an address control by the family or by
31:01
Speaker 3: a representative into that alpha numeric bitcoin account that's in
31:05
Speaker 3: the ransom note. But that's all you'll see. Really, what's
31:10
Speaker 3: really critical is what happens next. Where does that address
31:14
Speaker 3: that ransom address send funds, do we have attribution? In
31:17
Speaker 3: other words, have we associated that address with any illicit
31:21
Speaker 3: activity before? And then the real key happens. The breaks
31:25
Speaker 3: in these types of cases happen when funds go to
31:27
Speaker 3: a cryptocurrency exchange to cash out right, because the reality
31:31
Speaker 3: is that you can't really buy a bit point to
31:33
Speaker 3: buy anything in a meaningful way today. You need to
31:35
Speaker 3: convert it more usable, you know, cash to currencies. And
31:39
Speaker 3: that's the key, because that cryptocurrency exchange has that underlying
31:42
Speaker 3: user information on the account, the name, the social security number,
31:46
Speaker 3: email accounts, telephone numbers. And that's when law enforcement really
31:51
Speaker 3: starts running with these other leads.
31:53
Speaker 1: That from our friends at Fox News. Many people believe
32:00
Speaker 1: that bitcoin cannot be traced, and tonight we are learning
32:05
Speaker 1: the FBI believes that's their best lead on who took
32:11
Speaker 1: miss Guthrie. Now, I think it's the video of the
32:14
Speaker 1: porch guy in the video of cars racing by, which
32:18
Speaker 1: is also in your wheelhouse digital evidence. But let's address
32:23
Speaker 1: the ransom notes and the possibility says everybody went radio
32:28
Speaker 1: silent on it of tracing this bitcoin request.
32:33
Speaker 3: No, it's a great question. Look and anytime First of all,
32:36
Speaker 3: thank you for having me on Nancy. Look, anytime that
32:39
Speaker 3: there's a cryptocurrency address involved in a case, it's an
32:42
Speaker 3: immediate lead. And what most people don't understand about cryptocurrency
32:46
Speaker 3: is every transaction occurs on a public blockchain, particularly Bitcoin,
32:51
Speaker 3: which is which is public, meaning every transaction is traceable, trackable,
32:56
Speaker 3: and immutable. In other words, it's there forever. In other words,
32:58
Speaker 3: crypto is the ultimate crime scene. You can go back
33:01
Speaker 3: in time. You know what transactions have occurred prior to
33:05
Speaker 3: this day involving this cryptocurrency address. Has this address sent funds,
33:09
Speaker 3: has it received funds, and ultimately you track and trace
33:12
Speaker 3: those funds across blockchains using tools like TRM.
33:16
Speaker 1: Okay, you do know that you're speaking to a trial lawyer.
33:23
Speaker 1: You need to explain what you're saying when you're referring
33:27
Speaker 1: to blockchain analysis. Bitcoin transactions, if you look at them
33:35
Speaker 1: in the US anyway, they are recorded. It's almost like
33:39
Speaker 1: a Google doc where everybody's adding stuff in and they
33:43
Speaker 1: are in blocks. It looks like blocks where each entry
33:48
Speaker 1: is made. Think of a spreadsheet and blocks of information. Okay,
33:52
Speaker 1: we typically write in paragraphs. It looks like a block,
33:55
Speaker 1: and then you follow the chain. That's where they get
33:59
Speaker 1: the phraseology block chain analysis. Now slow it down, airy
34:05
Speaker 1: and explain again, very slowly, how the FEDS can do this,
34:09
Speaker 1: and this is what they're doing right now according to reports.
34:13
Speaker 3: So what we do with TRM is we take that
34:16
Speaker 3: raw blockchain data that you're describing, that alphanumeric address, say
34:19
Speaker 3: for example, that would be in a ransom note, and
34:22
Speaker 3: we layer it with threat intelligence.
34:24
Speaker 4: We have a team of threats.
34:26
Speaker 1: A right there, right there, you mean like the number
34:30
Speaker 1: at the bottom of your check that it's every bitcoin
34:34
Speaker 1: account has an identifiable number, like we have a social
34:37
Speaker 1: security number. It's got an identifiable number like a checking account.
34:41
Speaker 1: Is that right?
34:42
Speaker 4: That is correct? It's a string.
34:44
Speaker 1: Dummy down, man, dummy down for me. Now start over plase.
34:49
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah.
34:50
Speaker 3: So look, every cryptocurrency address is a unique string of
34:55
Speaker 3: letters and numbers. And what we do is we associate
34:58
Speaker 3: those numbers with threat actors, I think terrorist financiers, sanctioned
35:03
Speaker 3: ransomware actors, and that allows law enforcement to track and
35:07
Speaker 3: trace the flow of funds, to build investigation prosecutions to
35:11
Speaker 3: ultimately seize back those illicit proceeds.
35:14
Speaker 1: There has been a high level of success by the Feds,
35:18
Speaker 1: by the FBI, by the irs. You know, they're about
35:22
Speaker 1: three inches up everybody's tailpipe. On Bitcoin, every transaction is
35:27
Speaker 1: recorded on a block chain. As Airy just said, Bitcoin
35:34
Speaker 1: wallets have an address and they can be watched by
35:37
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Then the tricky times when the purp chrise
35:42
Speaker 1: to cash it in. But right now we're not at
35:44
Speaker 1: that point because I don't believe that ransom was ever
35:48
Speaker 1: paid straight out to Chris mcdonnah joining US veteran homicide
35:53
Speaker 1: detective over three hundred homicides under his belt. He is
35:58
Speaker 1: the star of the interview him on YouTube, and he
36:02
Speaker 1: also is the director of the Cold Case Foundation. Chris,
36:07
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You immediately flagged a
36:09
Speaker 1: lot of problems with the ransom note. That doesn't mean
36:13
Speaker 1: it's not legitimate.
36:15
Speaker 15: Explain well, a ransom notes in of itself gives us
36:20
Speaker 15: a little insight into the behavioral aspects of what the
36:24
Speaker 15: suspect maybe you know, trying to pull off here. And
36:27
Speaker 15: if you think about it, just what Arry said there,
36:29
Speaker 15: you know, to use bitcoin as a you know, a
36:33
Speaker 15: hook into the victim. Well, automatically, that's just like saying hey,
36:37
Speaker 15: I'm over here, come get me now. There are some
36:40
Speaker 15: sophistications obviously that are on.
36:43
Speaker 16: A my league that Eric could talk about. But it
36:46
Speaker 16: just doesn't make sense that immediately this bitcoin becomes, you know,
36:52
Speaker 16: the talking point here for this case, and we have
36:56
Speaker 16: that with that guy in Hawthorne, California who was arrested,
36:59
Speaker 16: Derek Corolla. So it's a red flag in my opinion.
37:04
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think them asking for bitcoin was the
37:07
Speaker 1: red flag. If you will recall Savannah Guthrie took it
37:11
Speaker 1: seriously enough to say I will pay.
37:15
Speaker 6: We received your message and we understand. We beg you
37:20
Speaker 6: now to return our mother to us so that.
37:24
Speaker 5: We can celebrate with her.
37:26
Speaker 6: This is the only way we will have peace. This
37:30
Speaker 6: is very valuable to us, and we will pay.
37:34
Speaker 1: So do you have to input info to get a
37:38
Speaker 1: bitcoin addressed? Like here's a simple and now a comparison.
37:43
Speaker 1: When you create an email, you have to give a
37:47
Speaker 1: little information to get a new email, like your old
37:51
Speaker 1: email or your phone or your something. So what information
37:55
Speaker 1: do you have to input in order to get that
37:57
Speaker 1: bitcoin account?
37:58
Speaker 3: If any, you don't And the reason for that is Bitcoin,
38:01
Speaker 3: unlike you're paying, or unlike other financial institutions, is decentralized,
38:07
Speaker 3: but what is centralized are those cryptocurrency exchanges. So if
38:10
Speaker 3: you set up an account at a cryptocurrency exchange, that's
38:13
Speaker 3: when you have to provide that underlying name, address, social
38:17
Speaker 3: security number, email, And that's when that's when law enforcement
38:21
Speaker 3: really gets their leads from a crypto address, when those
38:24
Speaker 3: funds go to a cryptocurrency exchange, and that's when you
38:26
Speaker 3: send your subpoena to that exchange asking for that underlying
38:30
Speaker 3: user information and did they use a Gmail account, for example,
38:33
Speaker 3: to open up that account. Then all of a sudden,
38:35
Speaker 3: you can send a subpoena or a search warrant to
38:37
Speaker 3: Google to get those Gmail records. Do you have a
38:40
Speaker 3: cell phone provider that was used here? Can you triangulate
38:43
Speaker 3: location based on cell tower data? So a bitcoin address
38:47
Speaker 3: when the funds are ultimately moving, is a great investigative lead.
38:50
Speaker 3: But that's when law enforcement uses all those other tools
38:53
Speaker 3: that they have in their toolbox.
38:56
Speaker 1: What I was saying earlier, Airy, is that people expect
38:59
Speaker 1: this high action scenario to play out. It's not always
39:04
Speaker 1: like that. I can remember so many nights sitting in
39:06
Speaker 1: the floor of my office, first as a FED and
39:10
Speaker 1: then as a felony prosecutor at inner City Atlanta, with
39:13
Speaker 1: stacks and stacks of papers in front of me, just
39:18
Speaker 1: stacks and stacks, wading through them, marshaling the evidence, much
39:26
Speaker 1: as we do tonight. So it's not always a high
39:30
Speaker 1: speed chase with cars turning over. It's guys and women
39:35
Speaker 1: coming into the office seven am, drinking their coffee and
39:39
Speaker 1: then diving in. So when someone is analyzing this trail,
39:45
Speaker 1: one of the hottest trails we've got in finding Nancy Guthrie,
39:49
Speaker 1: what do they do? Is it all on computer? Are
39:51
Speaker 1: they looking at documents? Are they all together in a
39:53
Speaker 1: conference room? What is it? What does it look like?
39:57
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you essentially have an investigator like le In and Off,
40:00
Speaker 3: in front of a laptop or a computer who's in
40:02
Speaker 3: a tool like TRM. You know, it's an application that
40:06
Speaker 3: actually shows funds moving on a blockchain. There's a user
40:09
Speaker 3: interface that creates graphs, and you're saying to yourself, all right,
40:13
Speaker 3: I'm looking at that initial address that's in the ransom note,
40:17
Speaker 3: where are funds going? And then you start tracing and
40:20
Speaker 3: you have these really cool graphs that are following the
40:23
Speaker 3: money in real time. The problem is you need that
40:26
Speaker 3: initial payment in order to start that activity, right and
40:30
Speaker 3: open question about whether or not we have that today.
40:33
Speaker 6: I mean from the very early moments, you know, Annie
40:36
Speaker 6: and Tommy were saying, this isn't this isn't that case
40:39
Speaker 6: that you are used to where someone wanders off. She
40:42
Speaker 6: can't wander off, my mom. She was in tremendous pain.
40:49
Speaker 6: Her back was very bad. You know, she was trying to.
40:53
Speaker 6: On a good day she could walk down to the
40:55
Speaker 6: mailbox and get the mail, but most days not so
40:59
Speaker 6: there was no one off and the doors were popped open. Yeah,
41:05
Speaker 6: and there was blood on the front doors.
41:07
Speaker 1: That is from our friends at Today on YouTube and
41:11
Speaker 1: joining us now special guest Jeff le Me Nancy Guthrie's
41:17
Speaker 1: neighbor who pastor often when they will both be out
41:20
Speaker 1: walking in the neighborhood. Jeff, let me tell me again
41:26
Speaker 1: what happened that night, how unusual it was, and did
41:29
Speaker 1: you have any idea that about four doors down your
41:35
Speaker 1: dog was very likely foiling a kidnappers plan to take
41:40
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie out the back door.
41:43
Speaker 2: Our dogs are sound sleeper, so this was really unusual
41:47
Speaker 2: for the dogs to wake us up at that hour.
41:53
Speaker 2: Were horrified as a community, speaking to neighbors, speaking to people,
41:58
Speaker 2: we know here people just cannot imagine what she went
42:03
Speaker 2: through that evening and how shocking this is and how
42:08
Speaker 2: terrible this is.
42:10
Speaker 1: That night your dog out of the blues only happened
42:15
Speaker 1: one other time to your recollection, and that would have
42:17
Speaker 1: been on January the eleventh.
42:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that was another night that we were questioned. And
42:24
Speaker 2: when we went through the camera data with the with
42:29
Speaker 2: the investigators, that's when we discovered it was the other
42:33
Speaker 2: night that where this happened. And as I've noted, it
42:35
Speaker 2: hasn't happened since, so perhaps the animals, the dogs were
42:40
Speaker 2: aware of some activity. As I noted, one of the
42:45
Speaker 2: evenings our cameras went offline that night. We had discussions
42:49
Speaker 2: with the investigators whether or not that was a coincidence,
42:53
Speaker 2: whether it was spotty service that we have with Sellen
42:57
Speaker 2: what have you here, or some meeting. And I hope
43:01
Speaker 2: that all these issues the dogs and cameras can add
43:04
Speaker 2: some value to what happened.
43:07
Speaker 1: Mister LEMI, has it occurred to you that your dog,
43:13
Speaker 1: a dog barking foiled the kidnappers plan. We know that
43:20
Speaker 1: they had the back door propped wide open. We think
43:24
Speaker 1: maybe according to one source by Missus Guthrie's own flower pots.
43:29
Speaker 1: That was the plan. If that door was meant just
43:32
Speaker 1: to go in and get missus Guthrie and go out
43:35
Speaker 1: in the front, they wouldn't have propped it open behind them.
43:38
Speaker 1: That was the plan. But your dog barking, I believe,
43:45
Speaker 1: may have foiled their plan and they had to go
43:48
Speaker 1: out the front. So do you know that you've actually
43:53
Speaker 1: been attacked furiously online after you visited with us before,
43:59
Speaker 1: people wondering, wow, how did he happen to bring up
44:03
Speaker 1: that his dogs went crazy on jan eleven and the
44:07
Speaker 1: early morning hours of FAB one. You didn't know. You
44:11
Speaker 1: didn't know until the fans asked you to look at
44:14
Speaker 1: your video. Isn't that right?
44:16
Speaker 5: That's correct? I mean we didn't. We dismissed this as
44:19
Speaker 5: maybe this.
44:21
Speaker 2: You know, so the inconvenient of a dog waking you
44:24
Speaker 2: up in the early hour morning morning hour, minutes of
44:29
Speaker 2: the evening and as being going back to bed, and
44:33
Speaker 2: we didn't have that correlation until later on when we
44:36
Speaker 2: were in discussions. You know, people, you know, the reality
44:43
Speaker 2: is that your people can be critical, but the community
44:47
Speaker 2: overall is trying to be supportive of the investigation, supportive
44:52
Speaker 2: and compassionate about the family that suffered, has suffered incredibly,
44:58
Speaker 2: and we have to put the aside and this move
45:01
Speaker 2: forward and try to be as helpful as we can.
45:03
Speaker 1: Mister Lamaye again, about what time was it that Joe
45:06
Speaker 1: Laine insisted on going outside?
45:10
Speaker 2: So if this is an approximate time, I think it
45:12
Speaker 2: was at one am? Was the time that the dogs
45:18
Speaker 2: woke us up and took us you know, you know,
45:21
Speaker 2: encouraged me to take her outside, and she noticed activity
45:27
Speaker 2: and was staring towards the direction of the home and
45:32
Speaker 2: processing now.
45:33
Speaker 1: Of course missus Guthrie's home.
45:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, and at that hour I noticed this in the video.
45:40
Speaker 2: My task was to take Jolene outside, have her do
45:44
Speaker 2: her business, so to speak, and then take her back
45:46
Speaker 2: in at is notice that, But that was you know,
45:52
Speaker 2: as we discussed earlier. Perhaps this could help with time
45:55
Speaker 2: frame or awareness of maybe some where some activity was
45:59
Speaker 2: taking place.
46:00
Speaker 1: Let's see the timeline quickly, Control room. If I could
46:03
Speaker 1: look at that one forty seven am, the door cam
46:08
Speaker 1: disconnects and your dog, Joline and Jolene's companion wake you
46:14
Speaker 1: up and take you out around one forty What did
46:17
Speaker 1: she do to wake you up? And you said, encourage
46:21
Speaker 1: you to take her out? My dog barks his head off.
46:23
Speaker 1: What did she do?
46:25
Speaker 5: Julie is a very affectionate dog.
46:26
Speaker 2: She started to look my face, which is her signal
46:29
Speaker 2: to wake up and I need you, I need your help.
46:33
Speaker 2: And so she was licking my face and greeting me,
46:38
Speaker 2: and that is a signal to say, I need to
46:40
Speaker 2: go outside.
46:42
Speaker 1: So you take her out around one forty am. And
46:45
Speaker 1: let me be clear, you did not realize the only
46:48
Speaker 1: other time to your recollection, she has insisted you take
46:51
Speaker 1: her out. I'm referend to Joline was on jan eleven.
46:54
Speaker 1: January eleven.
46:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and we haven't had My wife and I were
47:00
Speaker 2: discussing this. We haven't had that happen since. And this
47:04
Speaker 2: was very I mean, they're not puppies. You know, this
47:06
Speaker 2: was not typical behavior at all.
47:09
Speaker 1: So question to you, what is your neighborhood been like
47:13
Speaker 1: since Miss Gutherine went missing.
47:16
Speaker 2: You know, people are trying to be supported of the family.
47:22
Speaker 2: I was very moved. A bunch of folks came together
47:25
Speaker 2: and heartfelt. People have put flowers and displays in front
47:29
Speaker 2: of the home, and people came together to clean up
47:32
Speaker 2: the displays. You know, people have are thinking about her.
47:38
Speaker 2: The yellow ribbons that you've seen in the neighborhood. We're saddened.
47:43
Speaker 2: We all saw the interview. You can't help but be
47:45
Speaker 2: moved and heartbroken by the pain that family suffered, and
47:55
Speaker 2: truly truly want some resolution and some solace to come
47:59
Speaker 2: from this.
48:00
Speaker 1: Have you observed any activity at Missus Guthrie's home.
48:05
Speaker 2: You know, there are still a few streamers about, but
48:10
Speaker 2: beyond that, I mean, the neighborhood has settled down. I
48:13
Speaker 2: do see people coming, and I think it's very meaningful
48:17
Speaker 2: to them to kind of stand in front of the
48:21
Speaker 2: home and process. But it's it's been much quieter. But
48:25
Speaker 2: despite it being quieter.
48:27
Speaker 1: What about my law enforcement?
48:29
Speaker 2: You know, you know I've not seen once again, I
48:33
Speaker 2: walked by twice a day with the dogs. I have
48:37
Speaker 2: not seen a lot of activity. I know there's security
48:41
Speaker 2: around the house, there's been a security system set up,
48:45
Speaker 2: a little bit of media, but I've not seen personally activity.
48:49
Speaker 2: But then again, I'm only walking by twice a day.
48:52
Speaker 1: Did your dog, Joelane know Missus Guthrie? Perhaps my pastor
48:57
Speaker 1: quite often right, we saw less.
49:00
Speaker 2: Of her yet recently, but early on, when we've lived
49:06
Speaker 2: here six years, we would walk by the home and
49:08
Speaker 2: at that time. We would see her up front with
49:10
Speaker 2: her dog at times, So perhaps my sight and we
49:15
Speaker 2: all know that dogs have incredible sense of smell.
49:18
Speaker 1: So perhaps question did she still have her dog?
49:24
Speaker 5: My understanding is that her dog.
49:27
Speaker 2: This is under an understanding that someone had expressed to
49:29
Speaker 2: me that in December that perhaps her dog had passed away,
49:33
Speaker 2: but we had not seen her dog recently.
49:36
Speaker 1: That video you saw us for our friends at Fox
49:38
Speaker 1: five in Vegas. What was your response to the haters
49:41
Speaker 1: and how does it make you feel that your dog,
49:45
Speaker 1: Joelane specifically, may have thwarted the kidnappers plan.
49:50
Speaker 2: You know, I initially I was not going to talk
49:54
Speaker 2: to the media, but someone encouraged me and said that
49:59
Speaker 2: this keeps attention on this case, It keeps awareness of
50:03
Speaker 2: the reward, It keeps awareness of someone perhaps coming forth
50:07
Speaker 2: with information that might be helpful. So there would be
50:11
Speaker 2: a value to doing this. And there are people who
50:14
Speaker 2: are going to be critical, but the reality is perhaps
50:18
Speaker 2: this can add value, and I'm going to dismiss those
50:23
Speaker 2: criticisms and move forward and let's try to be helpful,
50:27
Speaker 2: Let's try to be supportive, and let's try to move
50:29
Speaker 2: forward and move towards perhaps some resolution, some solace, some progress.
50:37
Speaker 8: With this case.
50:40
Speaker 1: Programming note.
50:41
Speaker 17: On April seventeen, on Crime Stories, we reported the death
50:46
Speaker 17: of six year old Jojo King and mistakenly described the
50:51
Speaker 17: charge for which is step dead Brandon Hale was indicted.
50:56
Speaker 17: Hale was indicted for assault of a minor, as the
51:01
Speaker 17: on screen graphic in the program correctly stated, Brandon Hell
51:06
Speaker 17: has not been charged in JoJo's death and as of now,
51:12
Speaker 17: remains innocent.
51:14
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
51:18
Speaker 1: disappearance of missus Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred
51:22
Speaker 1: call FBI toll free one eight hundred two two five,
51:27
Speaker 1: five three, twenty four. There is a one point two
51:30
Speaker 1: plus million dollar reward for information leading to her whereabouts.
51:37
Speaker 1: A conviction or even arrest is not required. And now
51:43
Speaker 1: we remember an American hero. Officer Dallas Hinton Thomas Fulle, PD, Alabama,
51:49
Speaker 1: just twenty five, survived by his grieving fiance. Officer Dallas Hinton,
51:56
Speaker 1: American hero. Thank you to our guest, but been she
52:00
Speaker 1: to you for being with us tonight and keeping the
52:02
Speaker 1: search for Missus Guthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
52:06
Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good
52:09
Speaker 1: night friend,