Latest / Kinesis Money / Get Out of Credit Before It's Too Late Ft. Alasdair Macleod - LFTV Ep 282

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Get Out of Credit Before It's Too Late Ft. Alasdair Macleod - LFTV Ep 282 · Kinesis Money

0:00
SPEAKER_02: It's no longer a question of increasing your wealth.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: Forget that.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: It's a question of protecting your wealth.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: And there's only one answer: get the hell out of credit.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: They don't have to keep renting away credit.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: We've got this ticket time on talking gold with the one and only Andrew McGuire.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Life from the Vault.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Life from the Vault, brought to you by Kinesis Money.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is the show that goes beyond the headlines to uncover the truth about the gold and silver markets.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: And with us today is world-renowned whistleblower and industry expert Andrew McGuire.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: And this week he's joined in the vault by a very featured and special guest.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: And I know the community loves Alistair McLeod is in the vault.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: And we're talking gold, we're talking silver.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to want to miss a second of this conversation.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: So let's head over to the UK and join Andrew McGuire and our featured guest, Alistair McLeod.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Over to you, Andrew.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Alistair, thank you so much for coming back and sharing some of we want to know what you're seeing.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Um we've had so many people asking, where's Alistair?
1:20
SPEAKER_01: How come you haven't got Alistair on it?
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, here you are.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: And perhaps we can start with the elephant in the room.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: There seems to be no mainstream media seem to be talking about the launch of the Hong Kong Shanghai Gold Exchange Gateway.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: What are you seeing?
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, you know, I mean, this is this is part of uh a long-term process.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: And I have to say, they've uh hurried it up recently, and I think the reason they've hurried it up is, of course, because of President Trump and what he's doing to Hormuz against Iran.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, let's face it, the Chinese are um allies of Iran.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: They know exactly what's going on.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: They can see that the end of the fiat currency system has been brought forward very substantially as a result of the failure of the Americans in attacking Iran.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the closure of Hormuz, I mean, it just amazes me that people just have got no conception as to what's gonna happen to the the uh G7 economies.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna talk about G7 rather than globally.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, the G7 economies, I mean, basically, it's just gonna kill them dead.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: And uh what will the central banks do?
2:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, they'll try and support the markets, they'll try and support the economy.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: How do they do that?
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Print, print, print, print.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: And that's what's gonna happen.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: What happens to the purchasing power of these currencies?
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Down, down, down, down.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: What happens to bond yields?
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Up, up, up, up.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: What happens to the stock market?
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Down, down, down, down.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: What happens to businesses?
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Bust, bust, bust.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is what's gonna happen.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, the Chinese can see this.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, the first thing they did was they started dumping dollars for everything they could.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, any any gold, you know, if you've got some gold, please let us know, we'll give you dollars.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: If you've got any silver, let us know, we'll give you dollars.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Copper, we'll give you dollars.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and by the way, we're gonna hang on to our sulfuric acid and we're gonna hang on to our fertilizers because we don't want any dollars.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: And amazingly, uh, in spite of all the sort of tooing and froing over tariffs and all the rest of it, um, the trade surplus is standing at a record.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: More damn dollars.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: We don't want the stuff.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: So they're trying to get rid of dollars.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: Now they can see what's going to happen to the purchasing power of the dollar.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: They've known this for a long time.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: And indeed, you go back to April the 2nd, which was um uh Trump's Liberation Day.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, the following week, President Xi did a whistle stop tour round Southeast Asia, following which uh suddenly we found that there were plans to open for the SGE, no less, uh, which is a purely domestic um operation, to go and open um vaults in Hong Kong and also in Saudi Arabia.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Why?
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Because there were two sort of areas.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Hong Kong was, if you like, the International Center for China.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: Saudi Arabia, well, there's, you know, they buy a lot of oil in that part of the world, etc., etc., and they could see what was going to happen to the dollar, and therefore, I mean, I tell you actually, just diverting just a little bit.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, back in 2014, I interviewed a director of a major Swiss refinery, and he was telling me they were working 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things they were doing was they were shipping in LBMA 400-ounce bars in Arab ownership, yeah, recasting them into Chinese standard 49s, one kilos, and then shipping them back to the owners.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Arabs.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: For goodness sake, they could see back in 2014 which way things were going.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, so the idea that this is suddenly a surprise, you know, I mean, no, no, no, it's not a surprise at all.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: The real money knew that this was basically going to happen at the end of the day.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, whether it was going to be a violent transition or whatever, whatever, who knew?
5:31
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, China basically knew right from the outset, um, back in 1983, when they appointed the People's Bank of China as sole agent for the state in managing uh gold and silver resources, buying, selling, whatever, whatever, alongside its foreign exchange duties.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: They knew that they needed to accumulate gold and silver against the day when fiat currencies failed.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're going back 40 years, 43 years now, because that's when that legislation came in.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've got copies of it in English.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: So um, they've accumulated a lot of gold and silver off balance sheet, let's put it that way, rather than on, you know, as part of PBOC's reserves.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: They got stacks of gold.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, the people who were only permitted to buy gold from 2002 when the SGE was open, they've taken delivery of some 28,000 tons.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Now, admittedly, some of that's gone back in scrap, but it hasn't left the country.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: No, no gold was allowed to leave the country.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: If you wanted to take gold out, you had to get the permission of the People's Bank, which basically wasn't forthcoming, and of course the customs officials.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Two weeks ago, they turned round and said, you no longer need to seek our permission to export gold.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's now just a customs matter.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: And of course, this opens up the link between the SGE and the new clearing and settlement system in Hong Kong.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: And furthermore, they have appointed refineries in Shenzhen to specifically um recast gold for this new operation.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: It's all part of what eventually will be the monetization of gold in the sense that uh the yuan will take over, if you like, as the settlement currency for gold transactions.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Because if you look at what we're doing in the West, uh I mean, gold contracts, I mean, whether it's a futures contract or whether it's um a forward contract, is not really a contract in gold, it's a contract in dollars.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: It's paper.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: And if the dollar's valueless, you don't have a market.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's what they see.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: So they are setting up, if you like, of the market which will take over from us.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: And already, I mean, they've taken most of the world's gold over there.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, the market's now going to follow.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: So that's what I see.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, this this must be one of the most bullish uh structural events in the gold market's history.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, it'd be as you say, it builds eastern clearing, physical settlement, um, pricing, delivery architecture.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: It's got it all outside of the traditional London, New York access.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: So, so, and then you've got the the the H U the instead of an XA, you've got H A U a fix.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: My God, uh Alistair, I mean, when you get an LBMA fix, diluted fix, uh pop-up, which is technically T plus one deliverable, although all gold isn't T plus one deliverable, but at the fix, it has to be NSMR compliant.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: So, so when you get that fix, that moment of the fix, and the H UI, A H A U, is a different price, what an arbitrage opportunity.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: How long is that going to take before it starts to level it out?
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, yeah.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what I want to correct you on one thing.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you're talking about this being bullish for gold.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: No, it's very bearish for pit for fiat currencies.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: That's the key to understanding it.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: So um, I mean, you know, the the dollar's toast in this.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, let me let me put it another way.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: The last real crisis we had, oil crisis, was the OPEC crisis of October to January, October 73 to January 74.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you look at what happened to um uh inflation and uh what happened to bond yields, um, I can tell you that Japanese uh consumer price uh inflation ran at something like 25%.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: 25%.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: The bond yield went up to something like 8%.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Where is it today?
10:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, the 10-year bond yield is a bit below three.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the other difference, of course, is that um uh in 1973, Japan's uh government debt to GDP was about 20%.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Now it's 240%.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you've got similar numbers for all the G7 nations.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we had 25% inflation in the UK, and we saw um 10 to 15 year bonds, medium-dated bonds, we would call them in those days, the the GILTs, uh ran up, uh the yields went up to close to 17%.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: Where are we now?
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Knocking on five.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, these bond yields are going to go a lot higher and they're gonna break the currencies.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: That's really what we're looking at.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: And um it's it's happening.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if we wake up one morning in the next few weeks and find that suddenly this is running away from us.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Bond yields are running higher.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: And with debt to GDPs as we have at the moment, I mean, US 125%.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you look at um, you know, the UK is allegedly something like 95%.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: I think probably more like 100 and something.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh, France is about 110, 115%.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Italy is about 140%.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, Germany's sort of relatively good, but their economy is collapsing.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: So it'll rise if you like, as uh the denominated goes goes wrong.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: That's looking about 65%.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, these you're looking at debt to GDPs five times at least what they were.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, the last time we had a similar oil crisis.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna see, I mean, this is this is Armageddon as far as these currencies are concerned.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: That is the key to understanding.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's why you've got to get the hell out of credit, which includes currencies, currencies of credit, they're not money, and get into real money, which is gold, and in a subsidiary roll silver.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Silver's not even bringing price at all as a form of money, because um you just look at industrial demand, I, you know, and this is the other interesting thing, Andy.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: The the um uh Chinese have been keeping the price below 50 bucks for a long period of time.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just look at the export number numbers.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: They've but ever since COVID, every year they've exported between three and five thousand tons of silver, um, except in 2026, when suddenly this started turning around and becoming a massive importer.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, something like 1,628 tons in the first quarter of this year.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're looking at an annualized rate, which basically is going to correct, if you like, the um exports, the net exports of the last four or five years.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: China doesn't want dollars.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: And of course, the other thing is that um when America turned around and decided that this was a critical mineral, China didn't particularly want to supply her with a critical mineral.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, the whole thing's a mess, a complete and utter mess.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: And you, you know, well, what more can one say?
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think you've you you you've always been an advocate of of uh silver.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And and I think right now, um, one of the things you're I noticed that you uh recently were talking about this.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Um and and you were you were sort of talking about um silver as um it really the un how deeply undervalued it is, and and how people perceive it's it's amazing how people perceive this such weakness as structural when when absolutely it isn't.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And what an opportunity, uh Anister, I know you've been saying to people, look, what an opportunity here um to basically do what the Chinese are doing and exchange some of your dollars.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: You're high and and dollars are right now, dollars, what an opportunity.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: You've got a high dollar and a low price for silver.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it how much do you need a kick in the head to understand it?
14:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it was ever thus.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I you know, I I spent a little time looking at what happened in Germany in the early 20s.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, that's uh over 100 years ago now, 1920s, not 2020s.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: And um, it was fascinating that there were times when you had quite a sharp rally in the Reichsmark.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, particularly in the year uh uh 1921, there was quite a big rally in the I mean, for briefly, it was the strongest currency in the world.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it really was in the middle of its collapse.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you get these moments.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then uh in I think it was around about December uh 21, uh the stock market uh cratered.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: Um and it lost, I can't remember, but some a figure like uh measured in Reichsmarks, it lost uh something like 25%.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, what a bear market.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean they're not that great, but you'd say, but if you looked at it priced in gold, it lost over 90%.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh I mean it was only rarely towards the death that you had a sort of um some sort of rally, um, because Germany was earning huge, huge amounts of foreign exchange at that time, um, because the collapse in the Reichsmark meant that as a manufacturing center, it was extremely cheap.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's why the inflation kings were doing so well.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And they were telling the government, for God's sake, don't uh don't uh push the currency up, you know, because you because you push our costs up.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: So but um, you know, we're gonna face a similar situation.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh but this time, instead of having the dollar, which was on the 20.67 gold standard at that time, so it was as good as gold, it really was, uh, we're gonna have China.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: China's gonna start saying, well, hold on a minute, you know, we don't want implant down exports.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: So that's going to be something down the line.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: But I think seriously, seriously, um, this is a situation which, when the collapse comes, it's gonna come extremely rapidly.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: And you've got to understand, and so few people understand this because of all the propaganda we have about how nasty the Iranians are and how right the Americans are.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Ho ho.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, we don't realize, most of us just don't realize, and particularly in America, they don't realize actually the seriousness of what's going on in the Gulf.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: America's lost this war.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: And um now, of course, the Iranians are playing them along.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just wrote an article, I described it rather like a sort of going fishing.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you have, if you're fly fishing uh with a with a light line and you catch a whopper, you hook into a whopper, you've got to play him very carefully in order to land it in the nets.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: And that's what the Iranians are doing with the Americans.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna keep, they're gonna keep hormones closed.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: And um the problem is that the Americans have shown that they are completely incapable of um coming to an agreement.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, they could they they say, oh yes, we'll agree to this.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: The next thing you know, they bomb you.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they they do not respect the law or even um basic agreements.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, there's no way that the Iranians are going to sort of suddenly turn round and say, I tell you what, let's sit down and talk talk it over.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: They know what's going on and they know they've got to get rid of the Americans in the area.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: And also, um, you know, we haven't even started talking about what they'll do to the Israelis.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't see that um that's going to be very pleasant as far as Israel is concerned.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: This is a very dangerous situation, Andy.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that it's now, just to add a little bit of guilt on this one, as it were, um, G-I-L-T, rather than G-U-I-L-T, uh, I think that if I was in Putin's shoes, I would accelerate.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, also she, I would accelerate the collapse of um the fiat currency system.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Because, I mean, both the ruble and also the yuan could go on to gold standards tomorrow.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, that I have absolutely no doubt.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: You look at the economies, you look at the situation, you look at the gold reserves.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, Russia, uh as well as what they've got on the balance sheet of the central bank, they've got sovereign wealth funds with extra gold.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Both nations are major gold mining nations.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, they could go on to gold standards tomorrow.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we the propaganda that we have about um the Russian economy, um, you know, uh you you you talk to the NATO people and they say, oh, it's on the verge of collapse.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Rubbish.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what the debt to GDP is?
19:08
SPEAKER_02: It's about 18%.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: That's you know, that's 18%.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh um tax rate, personal tax rate, 13%.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, apart from the fact we don't speak Russian, and uh, you know, perhaps there are a few cultural differences we might not really want to fall in line with.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, this is this is, if you like, um an entrepreneur's dream.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: Because you could go to Russia, you know.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a huge, huge great market.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, you got all the resources you need, uh, and um, you know, you keep most of what you earn.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: We're going the other way here.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, I you know, we're we're we're the commies, actually.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: And the Russians are the capitalists.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: They their economy, I mean, it's I mean, their war economy has been bolstered by the fact that um they have huge, huge um uh earnings from um uh natural resources and particularly energy.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: And I know that the big discounts on the prices, but it's Israeli stood them in extremely good stead.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: They are in a very strong position, and yet we're trying to wage war against them.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: So what I would do as Putin is I would just hasten the collapse of the of the finances, if you like, of NATO.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's another reason that we should not be sort of sitting around thinking, oh, well, you know, uh McLeod and Maguire are just too pessimistic.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, come on, wake up, folks.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: This is actually a very serious time.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and a lot of what you're talking about has gone under flying under the radar.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, all the mainstream media's attentions on the Iran, US conflict, and of course, very, very uh biased and and and really doesn't give you the right picture, um, unless you dig down into um say Russian media and and and other media.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: But um and but essentially to me, it's a very worrying situation.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got people like our ex-prime minister here, Starmer.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you've got people who in Europe who are literally playing with nuclear fire.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they don't understand, thank God, that that Putin is a pragmatic, um, measured individual, who who I think we would be very we'd have greatly benefit from a leader of that kind of caliber.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: Um and and and so really when they keep pushing the they're pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope, supplying weapons, supplying um uh intelligence to hit um the infrastructure.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And there comes a point when you would just say if you put in my uh at this point, if I was if If I was uh in in a command position in Russia, I would say if that starts to get too onerous, maybe I'll use a tactical nuke.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, there's a lot of talk about that.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: I um and I'm you know, this is why I think that the answer is actually not to go down that road, but to just um let um you know, let us go bust.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Um I think that would be the practical way forward.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: Because once you start talking tactical nuclear weapons and all the rest of it, I mean, no, I'd I I that would not because suddenly things get out of control.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's that's not what you want to do.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the easiest, I mean, I really do think that the sensible thing for Putin to do, and also Xi's now got himself, I think, protected.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: He's got the currency all protected, which goes back to your first question.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: What's actually going on in Hong Kong?
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Um then I, you know, basically they're ready to watch the West collapse and maybe give it a little bit of a nudge.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think this is actually what China's doing.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's interesting.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: Back in February, it emerged that China had told its banks to um lighten its load, if you like, of US treasuries, which actually, you know, in put less diplomatic, was sell the damn stuff, get out.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: And then we have another thing, um, which was fascinating.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you had the Chinese banks, obviously under instruction from um the SGE, from the People's Bank, if you like, which owns the SGE and runs it on behalf of the Communist Party.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: Um uh, you know, close all your speculative positions by the 24th of July.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know what the the significance of the 24th of July.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: I guess it's something to do with the expiry of the SHFE uh current contract, I guess.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh, you know, why?
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Why close your positions?
24:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, the answer quite simply is that um rather like in the West, um, you find that people are net long.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: The speculators are always net long, which means that the establishment is net short.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: So the establishment is saying, close your positions.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: That way uh they are no longer net short.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Boom, that's it.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if you're uh a swap on COMEX, you just turn around and tell everybody, close your positions.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: You know.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they know something's coming along.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think that um, you know, I I think it would be a bit of a stretch at this stage to say that um just at some time, you know, let's say in the week or two after the 24th of July, the uh government is going to turn around and fix the Yuan gold exchange rate.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: But I think um I think I would rather take the view that the Chinese authorities are exceptionally well informed about what is going on in the world of finance generally, and they have probably taken a view as to what is likely to happen to the gold price, which is why at the same time you had uh um the banks were um, if you like, encouraging savers to buy, you know, to invest in their gold accumulation accounts.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, proper investment, do away with the speculation.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: So this to me is a pretty powerful signal, particularly given that the banks have been told to get rid of their US treasuries.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just an amazing situation for it.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: It is amazing.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think I think we we're talking about the this this this this um uh this situation where uh uh China shuts down the speculative interest and forces um accounts to close.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Now it's been misread because clearly when you do that, well obviously you're gonna see that's why Shanghai's been trading at a discount to the fixed price.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: But the strange thing is, Alistair, and and obviously we are as you are, we're very close to to where these 400-ounce bars start moving uh at the fixes.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's really strange.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: But while the SGE has been trading for the last three weeks at a discount, at the fixes it doesn't.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: It it pops back to a price and then it goes back into a discount.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: So what more, how much more uh evidence do you need?
26:51
SPEAKER_01: That's PBOC footprints all over this, and maybe Russian footprints all over it too.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: But uh certainly that's what that is being misread by the mainstream media and everyone else.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, it's uh gold and silver, look how weak they are, they're on a they're on a decline.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: They're they're and and and and it's incentivized.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: This is the irony, the the shorts, the speculative shorts to load up again, probably 100 to 1, God knows what rate that they're loading up at.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that reaches an inflection point where this whole thing just literally implodes in their faces.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it it does.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's interesting because um I mean the whole point about uh both the futures market and also the forward market in London is they're paper markets.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: And um paper markets, why?
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Because the banks take part.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, banks don't want to have they they don't want to encumber their balance sheets with gold, physical gold or anything like that.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: They want to trade it for basis points.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's what they do.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: And they do it in huge, huge quantities.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: It's exactly what they're doing with the whole of the derivatives uh situation.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is why uh, you know, derivatives, I haven't looked at it recently, but I mean, typically you find there's something like 800 trillion of derivatives outstanding according to the Bank of International Settlements, you know, and that's probably 80% of it or something like that.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's a sort of quadrillion of derivatives.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh where is where is the capital backing this?
28:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not really there.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: It's basically um pass the parcel with great rapidity, if you like.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: And and that's that's that's why you're seeing that these sort of huge, huge, great numbers, and numbers which really uh I think shocked um the investment world when it first became clear what the turnover um, I think back in the 90s was on the LBMA.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you what?
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Really?
29:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, the the value of the turnover is just, I mean, in those days a billion dollars was um, you know, a serious amount of money.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, it's sort of getting in the way of small change.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: But you, you know, this is this is actually the way the whole thing um has has evolved.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: It's because of banks.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, banks, if you like, dealing in credit.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Now, the moment that the credit bit, if you like, becomes unprofitable, then you can forget it.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: Now, what that means is that um the artificial supply of uh paper gold, paper silver diminishes, which creates a greater squeeze.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is probably what we're seeing.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you see the drop in open interest now on uh Comex is actually um, you know, when it first started really dropping, the price of gold and silver was rising and rising and rising.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's continued to drop, I think basically as the establishment tries to get out.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was looking at the average swap position on silver um, you know, when when the price was up above 100, and you were looking at something like um the average swap position was short three billion dollars or something.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Now that's dropped to under a billion now.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that tells you roughly why it is that uh the price has dropped, because people have wanted, you know, that the establishment basically wants out.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: And it explains, if you like, also why it is that um uh uh, you know, it it's dropped at a time when the demand for physical silver and physical gold has been flowing, you know, with with in great numbers out of Western capital markets into uh into China and uh elsewhere in in Asia.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of things that I've been watching a lot of the things you're talking about, and one of the things that really struck me as um was very interesting, is your work that you've been doing on really what Japan, the I mean, you talk about Japan as the world's largest debt zombie, I think you put it is is your words.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: And and but but this is you know, basically that having reached the limits of QE and interest rate suppression, what's gonna happen here?
31:22
SPEAKER_01: Because how does that affect the the pension funds?
31:24
SPEAKER_01: How does that affect everyone else?
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, it um that's a a very, very good point.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is quite clear from remarks made by the finance ministry, um, who try to encourage pension funds to invest more in uh JGBs.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Um we didn't put it quite clear as bluntly as that, but back in Japanese assets, if you like, which as far as the government is concerned, means buying our debt.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh of course, if they're going to invest in JGBs, then they've got to stop exporting capital in the form of investing in foreign debt.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: So um that means that they are being effectively um asked politely, if you like, and probably later less politely, to uh stop buying the foreign stuff, sell it.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh so, in other words, what you're going to see, I think, is you're going to see a reversal of the flows of capital going out of Japan into other G7s, um, and that becoming a drain on uh G7s.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and at a time, really, when China is trying to get the hell out of G7 currencies as well.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh there is only one way for um government bond yields to go, and that's up.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: And we've had a three-year consolidation, really.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you had the sort of the post-uh COVID jump in yields, which uh was exacerbated by um the start of the Russian um uh um special military organization, which drove up uh the price of oil.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: I think it briefly peaked up at something like 120 bucks or something.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh and um so that drove up bond yields very substantially.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: We moved sideways broadly since then, um, and we're now breaking out on the upside.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: And you can see why.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: The foreigners basically are no longer buying this debt.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: And um I mean, if you look at the condition, the underlying condition of the economies, I mean, the idea that our economies have been growing is is entirely false.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: The only thing that has been growing has in terms of GDP has been uh the um uh budget deficits, which of course bolstered GDP, but this isn't productive credit going into the economy at all.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh consequently, if you look at the private sector, it's take that, take that out.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: In most of the G7 economies, it's actually been contracting for over the last three or four years.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we've had economies which are effectively stagnating.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and now that you've got this price shock coming in from um the closure of Hormuz, and it's only just starting, and I tell you, diesel is going to be the big thing too.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh, on that basis, you can see that um, you know, the the we we face a slump.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh what do what do central banks do?
34:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, they will just print, print, print to try and stop, you know, economies tanking and also markets tanking.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and uh that'll just debase the currencies.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: That's what the Chinese see.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And also, um, central banks as a whole, I mean, the war word has been out.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, you know, I know they don't talk publicly.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Or they have a different story for the public, if you like.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: But the the the the central banks have been buying gold now for the last four or five years, they've seen this one coming, they understand it.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they will say something anodyne like, um, oh, we're diversifying our reserves or whatever.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, what's the point of buying gold?
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, the answer is to get out of credit, somebody else's credit, get out of their credit.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: And that's what they've been doing.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: And um, this is something which uh, you know, I think is accelerating.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: I think I think that uh suddenly there's going to be a huge rate squeeze in the gold market because there just isn't sufficient liquidity in the gold market to um uh uh supply, if you like, these very, very powerful forces.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, if we take the view that uh over the long term the purchasing power of gold is is immensely stable, and that's what history tells us.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, it might be some short-term fluctuation, but uh what that tells you is that actually it's not gold going up, it's everything else going down.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's been something that you've been talking about for a long, long time.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: Now, and um I think you know, if it here's the thing we're so used to, we sort of or gaslighted, or I'd say not you are and I aren't perhaps, but a lot of people are very gaslighted into the fact that um the dollar-derived fiat price for gold is the price, uh, and and we we know that's not true.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Um now if I have to own a physical bar before I can put it for sale, and and the buyer has to pay in full for that physical bar, that is the actual price.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm satisfied with that because there is a buyer, there is a seller, we've met at a price, and we're both satisfied.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: And on a larger scale, this is what's happening, isn't it, Alistair?
36:43
SPEAKER_01: With between with this new talking about this new exchange, the new uh corridor leading into Saudi, uh South Latin America, uh Africa.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: It's it's I mean, this thing has just started.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: So when when when you when you have to when you have to find a non-fiat price, you have to know it's almost the barter, isn't it?
37:08
SPEAKER_01: I have a bar, you have a bar.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: What is that happens to be dictated a price in whatever currency that is?
37:16
SPEAKER_01: That that is it, isn't it?
37:18
SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the answer.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Um but and the other thing is that the the markets are very, very um sort of manipulated by our governments.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: Classic, just moving off gold and silver for a moment, classic is oil at the moment.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the oil price has been suppressed basically by um uh the Americans drawing down on their strategic reserves, which are now pretty well running on vapor or will be very shortly.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: But already, um, if you take uh the price of the components of crude, I mean, particularly sour crude, where you know, which which is the source of diesel and jet fuel and heating oil and so on, um, you add them all up, uh, you find that actually the value in the market is considerably more than uh the value of the barrel from which they were extracted.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, this is this is where we are now.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: And um if you look at gold and silver, there is a similar sort of situation insofar as um uh you know the central banks and the Chinese and so on will use our prices, if you like, as a reference price, but they don't put the stuff through the market.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: It's all dealt off market.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's uh and and and China has very successfully used this in the past as a means of uh controlling the silver price because it's been importing Dory and particularly uh non-ferrous ores uh for refining and um had, if you like, as a result of that, an accumulation of silver.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: And they basically have used that as a means, if you like, of backing um their shorting as producers um of uh uh futures contracts in silver.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: So they've been able to suppress the price.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: And um they've done it very, very effectively.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think that um they've worked with someone like JP Morgan in doing that over the last 20, 30 years.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: So this is something which which um uh you know really means that the validity of spot prices um that we have actually doesn't really reflect the true position.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, and I think I think I think there will be an adjustment.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, as an old stockbroker, I remember, you know, we used to uh you know, we you find that um you come in one morning and there's a sort of been a change, if you like, overnight in in in something rather, you know, something major, and suddenly you've got a completely new level of prices.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh you know, it was a sort of reassessment.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: And I can see I can see that happening.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: But the the nasty kicker in this is that if we wake up one morning and find, say, silver has begun to really you know shift up and it's being revalued, yeah, actually what we're looking at is a devaluation of our currencies, the purchasing power of our currencies.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: And that is a major, major problem.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: That's you know, as I was saying earlier, I mean, we're going to find that basically G7 economies are bankrupt.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: And the thing that will really bring this home is when bond yields go above that 5% level.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: I don't know where they'll stop.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if someone told me, do you think it might uh go to 20%?
40:37
SPEAKER_02: I say, why not?
40:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, because basically government bonds will be uninvestable.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Do you know?
40:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, they're already, you know, I mean, as you you you raise the you know, the question over Japan.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: 240% debt to GDP.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: And bear in mind that when GDP starts going down, that ratio goes up.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: And uh, would you want to buy Japanese debt under those circumstances?
41:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even let's say six-month debt as opposed to 10 years?
41:11
SPEAKER_02: No, you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: So that is is the frightening future that actually we face.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: China must know that all the GDP data that is published around the world is fake.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: They know it.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: So so um, so really uh as you mentioned, uh at what point do you press that trigger?
41:33
SPEAKER_01: What point do you win over the situation by uh literally bankrupting um or putting them in your debt?
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Um and and uh literally uh that could be Russia, it could be uh China, it could be a combination of Russia, China, uh, Iran.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, really, these guys are all neighbors and are well correlated, and I can't think for a single minute that um they aren't all on the same page on doing what you suggested, what is ultimately take them down and and just uh ruin their financial, ruin them financially, and we've won.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's right, and and uh I mean we'll we know that uh there is an agreement between China, Russia, and Iran um to provide um technology, to provide um advice, whatever, all to do with defense and so on and so forth.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: This is not this is not Russia and China actually going to war as in partnership with Iran.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: No.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: You could be um slightly cynical and say it's rather like NATO uses Ukraine, they might be using Iran, but actually Iran is completely independent, it's taking its own decisions, it's got America on the hook.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: As I was saying earlier, it's a lot like you know, fishing with a you know, with a with a big fish on the end and light tackle, they're being very, very careful about reeling in the Americans.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it's up to the Americans.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: If they want to crash the global economy because they're too, you know, because they're too embarrassed to admit that they screwed it up, then as far as the Iranians are concerned, that's their problem.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: And uh China and Russia see this, and quite frankly, um, you know, I mean, the stupidity of um NATO and particularly the European leaders, yeah.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the approach of Macron, Metz, and Starmer, and now presumably uh um uh Burnham.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, have they got no sense of history?
43:43
SPEAKER_02: Do they not understand that nobody has actually managed to break up um Russia, conquer Russia?
43:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, what happened when Napoleon tried it?
43:53
SPEAKER_02: What happened when Hitler tried it?
43:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on, folks, wake up.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Same with Iran.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Never being conquered.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: The only sensible thing, I mean, the the only sensible thing as far as the Europeans are concerned, I mean, I tell you, if I was, if, if I was head head honcho in Brussels or wherever, wherever, I would say, I would kick out the Americans and say, you have been perfidious, horrid um people.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: You basically have created wars in the Middle East, which have given us an immigration problem in Europe.
44:28
SPEAKER_02: So we don't want to be with you anymore.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't mind trading with you, you know, but go away.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: We don't want you.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: And uh we I would go to I would go to the um uh China uh Russia um bloc and say, right, let us set up a sensible relationship with you.
44:49
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk in diplomatic terms about how we might cooperate in the future.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, does it do they actually think that Russia wants to invade Europe?
45:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're talking about, you know, I mean, I can understand the Latvians and the Estonians and all the rest of it being rather nervous than the Poles, you know, with their history.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: I can understand their nervousness.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: But realistically, does Russia really want to take over um parts of Europe?
45:19
SPEAKER_02: No way.
45:20
SPEAKER_02: The only bit that it wants to take over is the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine, which is the Far East and uh and Crimea, which was sort of gifted into uh Ukraine by Khrushchev, but was never really part of Ukraine anyway, in the first place.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, wake up, lads.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: This is actually that's the way forward, not a way which is just leading to an acceleration in our own decline.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: And the next thing that's going to happen is our currencies are gonna be completely worthless.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, like um I mean it I mean, words do it's just the stupidity of it, I find, is absolutely extraordinary.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: And words just cannot describe it.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: I I mean, it's it's a case really, I suppose, of follow the money, uh, because I mean it's ludicrous.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: They have lost all sight of the consequences of trying to keep doubling down on their investment in war, which it is an investment in war.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: It is, I mean, and and there's so much obviously it's very profitable, and the war hawks um are in control, clearly.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's it's a shame.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: Um I I think um I was I wasn't too upset to see um uh that that chap um uh getting about flying back from um um from Ukraine to to um the war hawk.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I wasn't too unhappy about the fact that um that that he went to meet uh meet his judge and make her.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean that I that there seem to be odd things about that.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, did he actually you know did he actually fly back in a coffin, whatever, whatever.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can imagine all the rumors for the rest of it, but um, yeah, I mean you've got this element in America, which uh, you know, is whether it's Jewish lobby or whatever, Zionist lobby or whatever, whatever, um, yeah, which is actually completely divorced from the reality of life outside America.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is this is, if you like, it informs uh US political opinion.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we don't mind people dying outside America.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, if they can die in their millions, we don't give a damn.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: And if we kill them, we don't give a damn.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, the one thing we don't want to do is have um body bags coming back with Americans in it.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: So, um, but I mean, you know, if they if they invade, if they decide to invade Iran in order to um, you know, free the Straits of Homo, that's what's gonna happen.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: If they tried it now, you're talking about um uh temperatures of 45 to 50 degrees centigrade, for which American troops are not um, you know, they're not accustomed to it.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: And they would need, I would think, at least uh two or three weeks um in order to become accustomed to it.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh probably more.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, as far as the Iranians are concerned, I mean you're talking about a nation of 93 million people.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: This isn't a well-educated people.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well-educated with a culture.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just look at the um I mean estimates of sort of as much as 15 to 17 million people who turned out for um the old Komenei's uh funeral.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: Um and who killed him?
48:43
SPEAKER_02: The Americans.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you know, with the Israelis.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: And they will seek revenge of that.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is something, this is something which I think is very, very much in the Islamic uh way.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is why they have fatwas and things like that.
48:58
SPEAKER_02: They will seek revenge.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: This is not something, um, you know, the idea, the American idea that, you know, you can beat the hell out of someone and uh they will submit and then surrender.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: This is not that sort of situation at all.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: It really is not.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: They've just succeeded in uniting 93 million people against uh what they call Satan, which is America.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what's you know, here's the situation.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: What does Trump do?
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Now he's got midterms coming up.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, if um in this process, and you describe it very well of the fly fisherman with a very light line, wheeling in wheeling America in.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so they're they're they're uh obviously the threat from Iran would be if we take out the the more of the infrastructure um and uh and destroy it so that it'll take what 10 years to rebuild, that would be what Trump sh clearly is trying to avoid.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: It must be part of the how far do I push it before they do that?
50:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, because if they do that, then that we're all in trouble, aren't we?
50:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's it.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we you and I are in trouble as well uh in this country.
50:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: I think I mean basically I think the objective is to get America out of the Middle East.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh what we call the Middle East, they're now calling West Asia.
50:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and um, you know, that quite clearly is what Iran will want now.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: When they go, then um at that stage I think there will be peace, but not until.
50:36
SPEAKER_02: The other thing is that um the future of Israel without America becomes a huge, huge great uh question, imponderable, if you like.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh and um uh, you know, the Netanyahu approach, if you like, of trying to create a greater Israel, uh, absorb your enemies and then neutralize them, um, genocidal tendencies and all the rest of it.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh, that um, you know, is is obvious uh that has obviously failed.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: It would have failed particularly once the Americans leave.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and um I can see that um what Israel would have to do, I think, is to go cap in hand to the Russians.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: Because bear in mind something like 20% of the population of Israel is actually a Russian Jew.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: Um go to the Russians and and say, you know, come on, we need to um uh you know, we need to uh pacify our neighbors.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, we need to change our approach so that it is acceptable to our uh neighbors.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: Can you help us to do that?
51:43
SPEAKER_02: I I think, I mean, other than that, I mean, if if they don't go down that route, I think Israel's finished.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: I really do.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, that again, I think is a huge, huge great imperial.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: And of course, this takes us back to America because the Jewish lobby lobby in America is so incredibly powerful um that uh you know it puts Trump in this in an extremely awkward position.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, not only is he blown it, but I mean, to my mind, uh, you know, he's now um become very, very unstable.
52:19
SPEAKER_02: Does he actually think that by charging 20% on all exports going through um Hormuz, uh where did he get that?
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Extraordinary, extraordinary.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: He pulled that within 24 hours, yeah.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I mean, they'd be happy to throw him under the bus.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sure you're happy to throw him under the bus.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that I think that's a fair, fair conclusion.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, as you say, we'll see with the with the midterms, but if he loses control, I think, of the Senate and Congress, then I think it becomes a racing certainty that he faces impeachment.
52:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: But again, um, you know, with a president who is effectively very, very unstable emotionally, uh every other way, um, then can Russia and China really afford to have him on the world stage?
53:20
SPEAKER_02: The only way in which he can be eliminated, I think, is to crash his currency, which is why I think, you know, it's all pointing that way.
53:28
SPEAKER_02: And I think this, if you like, is gets, you know, we can have some confirmation that this is the case when we look at what China is actually doing in terms of protecting her own currency.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: What's she protecting it from?
53:41
SPEAKER_02: She's protecting it from the demise of the dollar and the other G7 currencies which um align themselves with it.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh, to me, it's it's really quite simple.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I I wouldn't pretend to be as clever as the guys actually running China and the guys in the top of Russia and all the rest of it, but you know, to me, it's it's just damned obvious.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: Should be and it's a cheap way to invest in gold.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: And I mean you can buy these currencies and they're exchangeable to gold.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: And and so absolutely, uh, of course, I think all the ingredients, I think Alastair, you've you've pointed out quite a few ingredients here for the solution, the only solution um for for this to not to blow up in everyone's faces is to literally crash the economy.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: And and they're in a position, China's in a position to do it, Russia, uh, Iran are all in a position now where they, as you say, I think you you explained that very well about the fly fishing.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: And I think um it is a very delicate balance, and I think uh that's what we're looking at.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: I wake up every morning and think, what's happened overnight?
54:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and you know, how bad how bad is it?
54:57
SPEAKER_01: In other words, what mistakes have been made?
55:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh why are they doubling down?
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Why are you killing more Iranians?
55:05
SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing this?
55:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, you just the more blood you spill, the less of a back door you've got.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: And and I think it's just ludicrous, to be honest.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: It would be so easy just to actually walk away at this point.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and does America need this?
55:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, do they really need this?
55:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just a long way from home.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: You come back and your your your your diesel price is suddenly what$10,$15?
55:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, people are gonna rise up in our unobtainable, it will become unobtainable.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, also and we've already got that.
55:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've already got that in Russia.
55:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so exactly, because the Ukrainians hit a major, um, a major refinery.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh so Russia's no longer exporting it.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: China is no China does a lot of refining, no longer exporting diesel.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, basically, you I think it's a matter of a week or two when we suddenly find that diesel is unobtainable.
56:08
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, so we'll find our local pump, you know, you take your your uh your your laureate along, you know, which you rely on your for your uh logistics, if you like, your logistics business, and suddenly you've got no fuel for it.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: Great.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: What do we do then?
56:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, Alistair, I know you've got the solution, and the only solution, and as we wind this up, um this um you that solution, please tell everyone what that solution, and it has something to do with physical.
56:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean the answer basically for I can't I I can't um uh uh provide a solution for governments because the position is political and it is insoluble.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: But what I can do is help individuals protect their wealth.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: It's no longer a question of increasing your wealth, forget that.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: It's a question of protecting your wealth, and there's only one answer get the hell out of credit.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: And for the avoidance of doubt, currencies are credit, and we know that because if you look at the balance sheet of the issuer, central banks, it appears as such as a liability of the central bank.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: A liability is the other side of credit, it's all credit, it all depends on the valuation which creditors put on the stuff, and we can see why that valuation is going to collapse, get out of credit, get into physical money, which legally from Roman times has only been gold and with a subsidiary role nowadays, silver.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: Simple.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: Beautifully put, and thank you.
57:57
SPEAKER_01: And as you say, these what with these these episodes and these uh the time when we come on uh to discuss stuff, it is about ultimately about us being able to make better decisions for ourselves, and and I think that is what we've done today is and brought some information in.
58:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at this from the outside in, and I'm saying, hey, yeah, I get that message now.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: I I really if I haven't done it before, or I already get it, but but thank you for actually reaffirming that message because we do we can take responsibility for ourselves, and I think that's what this is all about.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: And I thank you so much for actually bringing that uh knowledge and uh well sage advice, really, um, to people.
58:49
SPEAKER_02: I think the other thing which is worth mentioning is um don't store your gold and silver in such a way that it is easy for your government to grab it off you.
58:59
SPEAKER_02: Keep it out of the banking system, don't store it in the bank.
59:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh you could probably store it in the vaulting system if you store it in a secure location in a vault not owned by an American company, because an American company would be bound to act um on instructions, if you like, of the American government.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I leave it up to individuals to decide what they want to do, you know, sort of in terms of how much they have in at home.
59:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're lucky in the UK because we've got coins of the realm, uh, which are not um liable to capital gains tax.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, not at the moment.
59:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, there are ways in which you can look after your um gold and silver, um, but for really big boys, um, you know, this is why this is why I'm I'm now an advisor, uh strategic advisor to um von Gretz.
59:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we've got we we we've got private storage facilities in in Switzerland.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh and um uh, you know, basically, um, yeah, we comply with the law and all the rest of it.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: Of course we do.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, nothing is 100%, but I think if you go that route, and also for more retail type business, gold money, uh, which offers you a variety of uh vaults in different jurisdictions, um, at least have some of it in that, or maybe the bulk of it there, so that um, you know, it's just that bit more difficult for governments to grab it off you.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I just do think that um as the situation deteriorates, um, and this is particularly if it deteriorates slowly, which I think is not so much the situation now, but as it deteriorates, uh governments um will begin to ignore property rights.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_02: Very, very important.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is this is this is what happened in America back in 1933 when Roosevelt uh forced forced um Americans to cash in their gold certificates for for dollars at 20.67, and then a few months later devalued uh the dollar by 40 percent.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: This is this is what they do.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't break the law, but on the other hand, you can do things to make it difficult for the law to be enforced against you.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that that uh is it it's a lot of a lot to think about.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but each individual, I think, has got to think quite carefully about um their policy towards gold, physical gold and silver.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_02: And ETFs, incidentally, are not physical gold and silver.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh ETFs, etfs are are um credit because um you don't own you don't own the gold and silver at all in there.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: It's owned actually by the ETF, which is a company, and uh the directors of the company have a duty towards you, which basically means that you um have a relationship with them whereby you credit them with discharging that duty.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: So it is another form of credit.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: Um look, you know, if if you want to if if you want to trade it and all the rest of it and play games and so on, um, and you're still sort of insistent on accounting in your own currency and thinking, well, I want to make a profit uh in my own currency, then ECFs, I suppose.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: Go and play um, you know, go and go and play the futures market, whatever, whatever, whatever.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: But the point is that you should be accounting in gold and silver, not running your accounts in in dollars, pounds, euros, whatever, whatever.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_02: You do that for the accountants, but think in your own mind that the money actually is gold and silver, not dollars, euros, yen, um, and sterling.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_01: And they're all in a tailspin as benchmarked against physical currencies.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_01: And as you quite rightly say, make sure you have absolute control of your own physical.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: Make sure it's not in a government vault or that that a government has access to.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and while we don't expect uh 1930s uh kind of gold confiscation because the market is now global, and if that happened, I mean the price of gold would soar other parts of the world.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, so it it doesn't stop being stupid, Andy.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: So, but no, they don't stop being stupid.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: You're quite right.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: But um hey, all we can do is take responsibility for our individual selves, get information like this, couch anything you do in with information, and at least you've got a better chance of um preserving your wealth.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: It's not about making money, as you say, it's about preserving your wealth.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: Right now, that is the only message.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: You need to preserve what you have now because big things are changing.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: And as you say, you walk, walk in.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: You were a stockbroker, you walk in one day, everything's changed completely.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: That's what's gonna happen.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: It'll be too late.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_01: You need to do it now.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_01: So essentially, that's what you say.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: But thanks for joining us, Alistair, and uh it's a bright note indeed.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_02: That's my pleasure.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much for having me, Andy.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks for joining us on this episode of Life from the Vault, brought to you by Kinesis Money.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: And a huge thanks to Andrew McGuire and our featured guest, Alistair McLeod, for really cutting through the noise and sharing insights that you just won't find anywhere else.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you like this episode, make sure you hit that subscribe button and turn on the notifications so you never miss an episode.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: And uh, don't forget to share this episode with someone that really needs to hear the real story behind the headlines.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: We're back soon with more hard-hitting truths from inside the precious metal space.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: And until then, thanks for watching, and we'll see you right here next time on Live from the Vault.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.