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Felicity: Season 4 Episode 17 - The Graduate · Shit 90s Shows Taught Me | Felicity/ Buffy the Vampire Slayer/ Boy Meets World / Dawson's Creek/ 90s TV

• 0:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes a world looks like you ain't ever seen it before.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just be how never ended with those, how you need as a door.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Searching for something to put a smile back on your face.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just remembering unusual times that can come from on an usual place.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I need a partner for a ride Cause everybody needs a ride Such a bird is to the side Just ask See the word and I'll be there Just ask
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know the greatest things in the life I'll come in a pair They say hindsight's twenty twenty That ain't far enough behind me So we can walk this sweetest honey I think hindsight's nineteen nineteen Isn't need to pretend I got a hand I can land Who's like you really need a friend Just ask
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Shit-nine shows dot me.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Shit-nine shows Tommy was not filmed before live studio audience.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to fake your finale?
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So are we?
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to shit nineties shows taught me.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just early in here with my co-host Sarah Humphrey.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah, how are you?
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just I was just gonna say, I'm, you know, I can't believe we've gone through an entire another show, this being like our third or fourth.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's been so many ups and downs, but it's nice that, you know, the finale has
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: finale.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, especially since we've been complaining so much.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's nice that we don't have five more episodes to cover.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we definitely don't have more episodes to cover of the show.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the end.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But of course, we're not alone.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are joined by someone who I got to imagine was like, what the heck is going on in the final five minutes of this episode?
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Emily, Emily, how are you?
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: You are quite right about that.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm offering both of you and the rest of the listeners a knock of defiance which has also become known as a fist bump in the time senselessity has recorded.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: They call that a knock of defiance.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it was very strange and later they called it banging fists.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so embarrassing.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about season four episode, seventeen, they're graduate, also known as the original Felicity Finale.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: From what I understand it, I'm sure we've got some feedback from our more, you know, fanatic listeners who really love the show when it was on.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe that originally this was supposed to be the finale and then it was the network that ordered five more episodes because they needed like time to fill or something.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, hey, drama's up another five.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why it feels very strange because this episode feels like a series finale.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like this is where the show should end.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get into whether or not we think it was a good ending, but it's I don't understand.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, I think it would be fun if at the end of the podcast after we talked through all the stuff that happens this time.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we make some predictions for like how they're going to do an extra five episodes because I have some thoughts on what I think they're going to do.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's first talk about the graduate.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to start with Felicity and then because they're kind of like our we're following them for a lot of this story.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are like
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this season specifically is so loosey, cozy with our timeline.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm never quite sure when we started an episode, how far into the future we're going to be, because Emily, last episode, Ben was in the hospital.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he was like near death, okay?
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He lost so much blood that he almost died, and then we start this episode, and he's out of the hospital.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's perfectly fine.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, how many months have we out?
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: How long has it been?
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's very jarring.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: The summit's having just, you know, a mark on his face, which is really the only reminder that in the previous episode he was
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: bedridden in the hospital, you know, it's so yeah, we have the ben stuff going on, but the thing that screws with my brain the most is the pregnancy storyline where was Lauren really just like about to pop in the last episode and now he's having like six or seven months.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I suppose we're like two months, three months into the future.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I hope that lines up with our graduation timeline.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I guess so.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm thinking if she got if she told Ben, she was pregnant around Halloween or Thanksgiving, I suppose the math maths.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she would pop around graduation time.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she went a little earlier, something.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we also have this plagiarism storyline.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if we're taking that, you know, two or three months ago, it's the last time we really saw them.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's when Felicity got caught with plagiarizing her paper.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then she didn't know until today that, you know, she had failed that paper, but I guess then, you know, was going to pass the class.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I don't know.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I vividly remember my last couple months of college because I had a list of everything I wanted to accomplish.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to spend as much time with my friends as possible.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that that is honestly the part of college that I remember the most.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So to kind of like skip over that, what is such an odd decision.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we've definitely got it this finale.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel as though we missed an episode in between our last episode and this episode and that an ultimate episode, a proper an ultimate episode could have been
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, spending time with our side characters for lack of a better word to, to, to, to chiller.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's what the word is, but like I didn't want to embarrass myself.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: To chiller is Felicity, because she's the title name.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, oh no, was someone about our like secondary and tertiary tertiary.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the word.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't, I feel like I especially dislike how we spent the last five episode minutes of this episode because that's where I felt the most.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got to get out of it, where it was just like, yeah.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Elena did this.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the hobby I did that.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like, well, that could have been, I understand that we need to spend the majority of our finale sorting out the Ben and Felicity stuff because at least in this, if we use this as like,
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: the finale finale.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like this was the bed and Felicity story.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It, you know, and it has been for the most part.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it does make sense to spend the finale focusing purely on bed and Felicity.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if that, but that's, if that's the case that we needed a penultimate episode.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: where we spent time with all the side characters that we had.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, and then it went to felt as Yati got to have that like recap where Felicity's like writing to Ben or whatever she's doing and being like, yeah, like this is what they're up to in the last like couple months since graduating college.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel as though,
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It felt extremely rushed, which is so stupid because this whole entire season felt extremely slow.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they were trying to fill in time.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then they filled in with a bunch of fucking fluff instead of like
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: actually taking care of these characters that we've been getting to know for the last three seasons.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is really mind-boggling to spend waste so much time, but then have not enough time to actually give like
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: service to these people that we have learned to care about.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it really will get into it because I was annoyed.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to be nice about it about the Elena and what Elena and Megan were given.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: as compared to some of the other characters.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, this timeline is what really throws me off because you're right Sarah.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this whole season has been very much a slog.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then at the very end, it just feels like we're pressing the fast forward button on everything.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're jumping in time twice in one episode.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of crazy, but to stay with Felicity and Ben, right?
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's out of the hospital.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're laying in bed together.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like talking about graduation is coming up.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are totally yada yada in the plagiarizing storyline, which is also crazy to me because I mean, I made a big stink on the podcast of like, this is a serious thing.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't plagiarize and then just be like, okay, I'm still gonna graduate.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know Emily, it really did not work for me that
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, she just fails the paper, but not the class and no repercussions whatsoever.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, no going to the dean, no nothing.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she doesn't even have to go in front of like, you know, anyone to be like, this is why I did it.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no slap on the wrist, even.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't sane.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I sit on my campus's academic integrity committee.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we review cases just like this.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, generally not if it's a first offense in which case, you know, a lot of the time the instructor has, you know, almost full
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: ability to kind of give the consequence that they want up to a certain point, or if the student can test the decision.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm trying to remember, Felicity has not had a previous speeding or plagiarism, not that character, not that specifically, I don't
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so these are Felicity's crimes, some of which she has not gone caught for.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: When she worked in the admissions office, she stole, or borrowed, she read, and reviewed.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Applications, that should be over in the fence.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But she really got in trouble for the most.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's sneaking into the pool.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know getting in trouble for that.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: She also never really gotten trouble for rewriting Ben's paper.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but like that that feels like the worst offense in terms of August the most related offense to this one, but that was all on Ben adjacent, but like yeah, but also I'm sure Emily, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you do take into consideration if you're on the board, other like behavioral
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: instances like we don't look at like the behavioral stuff, but there is someone else who does do that, who the basically who we turn at our recommendation into is only looking at past academic integrity violations.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean,
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: If Felicity got in trouble, which I don't think she did administratively for the Ben situation with rewriting his paper, but you know, if this was a second offense for her, she probably, where I work, that would have been probably failure of the course, if not worse, you know, and it's
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard, but students will come back and they'll say, you know, I was so stressed.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't manage my time while if they admit to even doing it and kind of ask for mercy.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, soliciting knows better.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have seen enough of these storylines throughout this show that by the time this came up, it felt so tired already.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It also feels like what growth has solicited had over these past four years that she's making this decision.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I was very upset with
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, just waving this away.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, she failed the paper, but we also don't know.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Does that mean it was an F or zero because there is a big difference there.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if it.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the difference between an F and a zero.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, like, cause an F could be like a fifty or some point of the nine, yeah, whereas a zero is a full one zero, which like your at a great point.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely changes.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then, like, let me just reference the time in high school where I got all F's for three semesters of Spanish, and then I got an A. My final sum of marking period of Spanish, so then my average equal out to a C. And I believe that's probably what happened for a city.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: She probably got like all A's and everything else, and then got like an F or zero.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she didn't even feel the class.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she just failed the paper.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's what she wanted.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but that's a big reason.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't even matter because like when you're in college, all you care about is the credits, right?
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like as long as you like pass, like get a C or whatever the numerical equivalent is to a C. Yeah, then it doesn't matter because then you get the credits.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It does like it's
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: nobody is like checking your resume to see if you got like a sea in art history, or the fuck this class was.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really annoying because it's again, it's the pacing.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: The pacing is so off.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, they wanted us to to worry and spend this time on this plagiarizing story line.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Only for then, it to get resolved off screen within the first two minutes.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the fake finale.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben's injury, like honestly, I don't understand the point of the besides the fact that like it was fucked up and it was like a lot of drama to be like Lauren who was pregnant, drove, drove, drunk so badly that she gone to a car accident and nearly kills Ben.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was huge drama, but then
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lauren was just able to like up and leave the state.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, how is the problem?
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Legal repercussions Emily for Lauren because she endangered an unborn child.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: She endangered another person as well as like all the surrounding people.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was driving drunk like how in the fucking world, but she just be like able to get up and leave the state of New York to go to Arizona.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great question.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So do we think like something happened where the producers were told you're only going to have seventeen or eighteen episodes, but they had already had these storylines planned and now they just couldn't essentially resolve them.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, is that what's going on here?
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have three very strong storylines that had a lot of set up to them, where we have invested a lot of time in Lauren as a character, not just as Ben's baby mama, but also as someone who is very close to his dad through the AA program.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like we're throwing all of that away, essentially, in this finale.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we've spent so much time on these storylines for them all, you know, well, we have the baby storyline.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: That does come to something.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lauren's gone this episode to never be seen again.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I just wonder if there was stuff going on behind the scenes where the producers and writers were like, Oh, you have one episode to wrap these things up.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we truly we needed like
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not that I wanted to cover more episodes of Felicity, but we needed like a penultimate episode in between the last episode and this one to tag up these things.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then like I don't think I would have been coming in as like angry.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not angry.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm not impressed.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I have more things to worry about than an episode of Felicity.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like less pressed about this fake finale.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, because they're dilly dallyed for sixteen episodes.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then they rushed the finale, the fake finale, like they completely rushed it to the point where we are getting all of these things that we are getting in one episode feels like we could have had way more time leading up to them.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So right within one scene, we have been as proposing.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the list of these says yes.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: unhinged, absolutely unhinged, like sure media is more common in the nineties, but like if
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a child.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am a child bride.
• 17:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are you doing?
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just, I know she's on the child.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, seriously, like, twenty-one is a child nowadays.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we all take a lot longer to become true, full-fledged adults now.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that we're coming from this as I think Emily, you're, I don't know, are you Midwest or East Coast?
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because East Coast, I agree with you.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that culturally is very uncommon for people to be engaged once they, like,
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: before they leave school or whatever.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I think I had one friend that was engaged in school out of like all of the people that I knew in college.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, in the south and different regions, it's a lot more common.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even to this day, to be engaged, to be married while you're in school.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'm on the east coast definitely not Midwest, but I attended college in Indiana, which is the Midwest and graduate in twenty ten and so many people that I knew we're graduating with their MRS degrees at that time, which
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, so that's that.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I did not see the proposal coming.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can even call it that, we're, I mean, I just don't agree.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Frank, there's a offer of the moment.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, hey.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just get married and I'm not trying to say Ben had.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ben is not null in all his like ulterior motives.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he was like, well, if I propose and if she's my fiance, well, then she has to follow me to Arizona and I get what I want.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he was thinking that I just don't think he was thinking.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the answer is thought came to him as they were in bed together, and he's like, I'm having all these problems.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, oh, what a great idea.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: If the city and I got married, and then we'll be together forever.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and clearly it's coming out of his insecurity of potentially losing her.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I agree.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like a manipulative tactic.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think to force her to come with him to Arizona.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I still do not see this coming, but it makes so much sense when I think about it.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: That this is what these characters do.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, get married, you know, very quickly and don't always tell if anyone and then, you know, it's they're rushing these marriage decisions.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a, okay, it is such a red flag in my opinion, if
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: every teach their own in terms of engagements and all of that.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like personally it's a red flag if you get engaged and then are afraid to tell people.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if it's one thing if you're like we want this to be just us for a little bit and like live in that moment day.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: different like if you if you're like we just want it to be our little secret for like a week that's a totally different thing than being like afraid to tell your parents afraid to tell your friends like if you have fear of the reaction probably a red flag and you needy shouldn't be getting married
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And teach their own, that's just like my, I say this from as as I have experienced two proposals, which I had vastly different reactions to.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is coming from like personal experience of my first proposal, not really wanting to tell anyone.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my second proposal not being able to wait and calling everyone immediately.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was very sudden, you know, Felicity surprised, but I think.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: She, like, I felt at the time I may have actually been the same age as Felicity when I got proposed to of like, well, I love this person.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So why wouldn't I say yes?
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how it feels.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then Ben immediately having to leave apparently Lauren ends up in Philly, who the hell knows why, but that's where she is.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably because it's a bus ride away for Ben to get there.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where she ends up.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he has to go because she's in labor.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's going to go see the birth of his kid.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have shit to complain about this as well because he, like, pays off the phone, it's midnight.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's talking to her sister or whatever.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, that's all the phone, he's like, yeah, Lauren's going to labor.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I should go, right?
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Felicity's like, yeah, like, I think you should probably go.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay if you're going to go.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then furthermore, you are engaged to Felicity.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Theoretically, we are living in a world where Felicity is this child's stepmother.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why the fuck is Felicity not getting up to go either?
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is your partner in life.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a huge, probably the biggest moment of your life, up into this moment.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're not going to get up with your partner, your new fiance, and go, I understand that her parents were going to be there the next day for lunch.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, and she, like, didn't explain to them, which is also whatever.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like, go, like, that's the part, that is the whole reason of having a partner in life is to experience these things with.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, like, is this, this was crazy, right?
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: For not only him to question if you should go, but her to not even offer to go.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was crazy for two mature adults who have logical thinking skills.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: for the only one year old babies who know nothing about the world.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and this is something that some people will do that in noise.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Me is Ben needs Felicity to tell him what to do here.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if he is in the right and that's something that just annoys me so much, make up your own mind.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have been with Lauren throughout this journey.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've been telling Felicity that you want to be to some extent part of this process.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just go.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why did he need to give you her permission?
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm totally with you.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just just go.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, Felicity, like you're saying, Emily, if they are actual adults, like, you know, that are seriously engaged in all of that.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: She should be going with him.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He goes alone.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has a son.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: The baby's name is Andrew after his father, which are feed.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remind all of us is the same guy who kissed Felicity.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the who the baby is named.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like her, yes.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ben.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, like obviously this guy has a history like not not gray.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's a recovering alcoholic, so at least he's like going trending in the right direction, but still.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's made about naming this kid Andrew.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, just also okay.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Ben comes back from this obviously feeling like a changed person because obviously now he's a father like a he's a bent of person can have and they're like pretty much I mean like there's a lot of big events but like I like it is top five
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: of probably a person's life.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not, that's something about a parent.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like, of course, he came back and changed person.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Felicity is like feeling out of sorts about it a little bit because she wasn't there with him because she didn't experience
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's, I mean, on the bright side, right, at least when Ben returns from his trip to Philly with the baby being born, he says, I can't imagine being away from this baby now.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that I've met this baby now that I realize like the gravity of the situation, I need to be an Arizona and I want you to move with me.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Emily, of all the things happened in this finale, this actually does make sense, and actually like feels like a good decision, right?
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least for Ben or for Felicity.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: For Ben, one thousand percent not for Felicity.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if he wants to be involved, then yes, he should go to Arizona.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: So,
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was looking into going to med school right over there, but I'm assuming the time ran out on that offer that his one professor suggested, right?
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I assume so because he was only going to have like a day and they didn't.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we just leave that hanging thread out there.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, but I mean, it's not like Arizona doesn't have universities that he couldn't attend for his medical schooling.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you can do that really anywhere in the US.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, he can go out there, be with his baby, be with Lauren and see how that goes.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think anybody between Ben and Felicity are really thinking about what this means for them.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe Felicity is as we'll see by later conversations.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Ben is not really thinking about
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's thinking about himself.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's thinking about the baby and hoping that Felicity will continue to be very, very understanding as he puts it to her dad later.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so he invites her to move to Arizona with him.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a big decision for Felicity, right?
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like whether she wants to stay in New York or move to Arizona and meanwhile Sarah, like she's having this lunch with her parents and her dad is being like a lot.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a difference between asking the question of, what do your plans after graduation?
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do you want to do?
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, braiding her for making the decisions that she's making, especially when they've been on her ass about, well, what are you going to do with an art degree?
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are your plans next?
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: She says a very valid plan, which is I'm going to come back to New York and work at this architecture job, which is related to my field.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, and is a job, is a stable job.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's still not satisfied.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't exactly know what he wanted from her.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess he wants her to move back to Palo Alto so that he can have full control over her again, is probably what he was wishing in hoping for, which is not realistic as like having an adult child.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, like the thing that he said, well,
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So why, okay, so I'm just trying to remember, because at this point in time, he said, he said the words, like, you have to stop following Ben Covington.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how have you done it for the last four years?
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at this point in time, Ben was staying in New York or was not staying in New York.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: At this point in time, Ben was, Ben was away with the baby.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he hadn't returned yet and made the decision.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because then he got something.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He got medical school or something in New York.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Be free.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, is that what it was?
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so originally Ben was going to stay in New York, go to medical school, Lauren and the baby were moving to Arizona and Felicity was coming back to New York to be with Ben, but also to take this architecture off.
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's really hard to keep track because of like how wish she was she bed was.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, wait, is he going to Arizona, Arizona?
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I, those, I mean, it's one of those things where like the people that like know you the most or the closest to you could hurt you the most by the words that they say.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the fact that like Felicity's dad said that was probably the most fucked thing that she's ever heard in her life and like I think back to and as somebody has like a strained relationship with their mother over the years like
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, like, there's some things that my mom has said to me that, like, ring in my head repeatedly.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I'm afraid that, like, that is going to be something that Felicity probably hears in our head up until her thirties, which is so unfortunate.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, like, it's, like I said, it's the people that are closest to you can hurt you the most.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It sucks.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, although it was a little true, um, it's really fucked.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's something that you keep in to yourself.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also think only it's a little different if she didn't have the architecture job like if she was just coming to New York and being like, oh, I'm going to do like I'm going to be with Ben that's what I'm going to do.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be Ben's wife that's what I'm going to do like I feel like that's a different thing than
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love New York.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: All my friends are here.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've built a life here and I want to pursue architecture.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a big difference.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I could understand his dad having problems with her moving to Arizona and being like, I don't know what I'm going to do in Arizona.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be with Ben and Arizona.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is so different.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her staying in New York.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: She already lives there.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we know that Felicity has the strange relationship with her dad.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she's probably not keeping him up to date with the rest of her life with the friends that she has.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Does he able to name any of her friends outside of Ben and maybe no.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about that.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: He, you know, clearly doesn't agree with her choice of major getting the art degree and then wanting to go into this architecture field.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what why it really hurts so much is because he is
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: saying that he believes that her only value, that she sees in herself as to be with Ben.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is not what she's saying.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: She is saying, I have a full life.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a job out here that is relevant for my major.
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have all of these wonderful things going for me and all you can see is Ben and that he will be here too.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think some of that is on Felicity and not on Felicity.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think some of that is on the strain of their relationship and him not having an awareness of all these other things.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he's also saying it in bad faith.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: If he thought about it for two seconds, he would realize that it's probably not just Ben.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're probably are these other things.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: She probably has friends.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: She probably has a good life out here.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We see her grow to be this independent young woman.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: and he's not ready to recognize that that's what she's become.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it only gets worse when he comes to see her and in the elevator, Bumson, to Richard, who spills the beans about, oh Ben just had a baby and who were you to the baby and like he just rambles on for a while all about Ben's baby.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: and then which which then is like it causes all these other issues because Ben has to talk to Felicity's dad about the baby and about Arizona and about all this other stuff meanwhile Felicity hasn't decided whether or not she's moving which again
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: is like, are you engaged to a person?
• 32:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, the answer, it should not be there.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there, there should never be a, are we engaged or are we breaking up because of this move?
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's unhinged.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just, I can't imagine like thinking back when I was engaged to there ever being a moment where there's like I'm going to move and either you're going to come with me or we're not engaged anymore.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so crazy.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I mean, I think Emily said it best where they're twenty-one-year-old children.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that like our thirty-something-year-old brains can't profit out this because I think that it's
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, maybe you think, you know, we're not that close.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not that like, we're not, we're not ready to be engaged, but we still want to be together.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's like, this is where the promise ring, the horrible promise ring.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is where you go to your local sales and get a hundred and thirty dollar heart ring and you say I promise to be loyal to you while we do our own things.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I promise that will be reunited.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I promise that one day.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: get engaged but today is not that day and then you then a year later realize that you don't want to make these promises and you throw that heart ring in the trash that but that's what they should be doing honestly.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be as black and white but you know I don't know.
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: When's the frontal lobe fully developed?
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Twenty five is that what is five?
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not there.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's not be making engagement decisions prior to that.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then it's all right.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Felicity is really going through it, trying to decide what she wants to do.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she want to move to Arizona with Ben?
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she want to stay in New York?
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And throughout this time, right?
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's having these little conversations with Noel, because as we've established, Noel's like her BFF, because Elena and Megan have dropped off the face of the planet.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so she, Noel is the first one.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: She tells that she's engaged again.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty shocked and maybe we'll get this in the other remaining five episodes.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty shocked.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get a more love triangle story here.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: That Noel is really more of her confidante where she like, he's the first person who finds out she's engaged.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the first person who finds out she may be not staying in New York.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like Emily, we're used to prize that we didn't get more of the like will they won't they sort of a triangle thing here?
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: A hundred percent.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm thinking about what the message of season four is, especially for a full of city been and all, where
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Noel has at times seemed like he would like to be with Felicity, right?
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Felicity in season four has never really returned that.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, this episode made it seem almost fully platonic until toward the end.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know we're not there yet, but Felicity does ask no later.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever think about what the future could have looked like if dot dot dot.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess we can talk about what she was thinking there.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read that as if you and me, and I think she said you and me, if you and me had gotten together, stayed together.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the first time I watched this episode, Nolce has never, and I really didn't think much of it, but the second time I watched, it felt like a very loaded never, where he smiling at her just kind of with this really knowing full smile.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the feelings for him are not over, but he has come to a place where he's accepting their relationship and that while that might hurt, he is accepting of it.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I am really surprised that there really wasn't more to Felicity giving this more thought.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's really been on the ben train the whole time.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's I think kind of what's one of the disappointing things about season four, not that I needed it to be love triangle the whole season, but it's just I'm so confused what what what was no doing here this whole time then, right?
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was just a foil for Ben a couple of times.
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was just bringing in a little bit of drama at the beginning of the season when he and Felicity do sleep together like I it's so strange.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It felt like we wasted a lot of time on nose feelings for Felicity being that like it really didn't amount to anything besides kind of like them going back to their friendship right and like again I wish we could have had if we could have done more with like the will they won't they were like is there a chance for Felicity a null we could have left these like life
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: changing conversations for like a character like Megan or a character like Elena, right?
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we could have given other characters opportunities to have Felicity confide in them.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, all of it is Noel.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Noel is the one she tells she's engaged to Ben.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Noel is the one who gets her the architecture book, New York architecture book for graduation and she tells him I might not be here next year.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so it just feels like we wasted a lot of the storyline on, no, when we could have given it to a character that really felt sidelines like Megan or Elena.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think she's also Sarah, correct me from wrong.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: The first person who she tells, she's not staying in New York.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's not coming back in the fall.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think so too.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I find it pretty interesting, actually, because obviously it's like a team noiler.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that it was going to be more of a toss-up, but the story ultimately is the Ben and Felicity story, which
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose it makes sense.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's where we started.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where we're going to end.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree with Emily, like I think that there are some feelings, but I think that he has realized that like he is not the person for Felicity.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: and that he has to get over it.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: He has to move on.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking this season specifically, there were a lot of opportunities where he told he was trying to help Felicity and Ben, especially later on.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was times where he was like,
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you should forgive him or her.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just know that there was like one more than one occasion where he was trying to like get them together or like, um, like, oh, like you shouldn't.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: feel this way or you should forgive.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was trying to be like, I mean, like, I was coming into him, but you're like, is there a world where I missed right at the entire time?
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, he actually didn't have feelings for Felicity?
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that he did.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do, but I think that he was like, um, she just is not that into me.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to get over it.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was just very strange and staying on null for a second.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: We might as well get through the Sean and, and null stuff here.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the his system.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: They like, well, they, like, they basically have Sean suck at his job for the majority of the season only for then and to like overnight.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's a few months because we're jumping in time again, like become better at his job only to get fired because of layoffs.
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, to remember that this was post nine to eleven and especially in New York City, there was a lot of people to get laid off from their jobs and the economy was like really below ease.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm actually not that surprised that like, I think it's realistic that there was layoffs.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there was a lot of businesses that were
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: like really fucked after nine eleven.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was this was this two thousand and two so maybe like it's yeah it's not so much that he got laid off.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's because that felt normal and realistic to me layoffs happen.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was more so that like they really gave him this like redemption arc of suddenly he's very good at his job only to get laid off, which I guess Emily they had to do that because in order for then Sean and Noel to then start their own business.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Noel
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: and want to start a business with him if he was shitty at his job.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me tell you what makes me mad about this storyline.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why are we spending so much time with Sean and Noel and not with Elena or Megan?
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are they?
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why can we not be seeing more from them?
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead, kind of like how Felicity's dad views Felicity only as with Ben.
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: and not having another life outside Ben.
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is what the whole season is telling us.
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we see almost nothing between Full of City and Megan or Full of City and Elena.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is just in my opinion, that's why season four is going to end up ranking so low is we have these wonderful characters that could have had such strong relationships with
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: and they have in previous seasons, and we just throw them out in this season.
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Megan is only around with Sean, and so that we can view and observe their marital problems and Elena just isn't around at all.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that makes me way more angry.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why we're focusing on Sean and Noel.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I guess we're not seeing Sean fight with Megan, so I guess that's good, but you know, it's,
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't understand the choices that were made to invest as much time into that storyline in the finale here.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really does make a lot of sense either, especially like I really don't think that they treated the character of Alena well in the entire four seasons.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's like part of my main issue with the character of Alena where I was just like, I just don't get enough for her.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like everything is surrounded about around like
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: a guy like I did like her with like Tracy but um so like I true and especially being like the only character besides have a year of color I feel like they mistreated Elena and I you know finally enough like I was like you know what is what's up with like tangy Miller anyway
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like I went on to her Instagram and I like scroll that was like scrolling for a while, no reference of felicity.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder like if she has any like
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: harboring any feelings about her experience as well because they underutilized her and I feel like they mistreated the character of Elena because they they really didn't I mean like they set up that whole thing with like Ben's buddy Trevor that wasn't complete like I kind of just feel like
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: we continue to get nothing.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one thing.
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like for Megan, who was like a day wonder, who we saw her do a massive transformation throughout the years, not only with her style, but also like
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: she was like horribly mean and scary season one like you know we but but the amazing thing is that we we got to learn like who she is underneath that armor and like in a way I don't even know if we totally understand like why she was that well because her parents were such normies but like
• 44:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, I feel as though, like, they really did a good job for three seasons, building up her character to get her with Sean, who kind of destroys her in a way.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or at least destroys her storyline.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, truly, what the hell?
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because, like, then her whole storyline no longer becomes, it's so
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: because the greatest thing about Megan is that she's an individual and then to lose her individuality in a man is probably one of the biggest injustices of this show.
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: infuriating to me that of this forty however minute episode of Felicity that is the series finale we get a total of maybe three minutes with the characters of Megan Elena total that's together and both of them
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: are also, it's not even just one on one.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're both sharing their time, Megan with Sean and Elena with Havi Air.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is so infuriating that we get almost nothing from them.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the Felicity Megan Dubai is cute.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I wish we got a more in-depth conversation with them.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wish she had been the one that Felicity had confided in because let's face it.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Megan is the most noble shit character.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she tells it like it is.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she would have said, like, you're being ridiculous or, you know, whatever, right?
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're being in ridiculous for all these reasons.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the Elena thing is like shoved in last minute with Haviyear.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the employee of the month thing while very cute.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not gonna complain about that thing in particular.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: that could have been one on one with with her and and hobby air why was Megan or why was um Elena there for that like it was just very frustrating to see all these other characters get so much more screen time when those two characters have been with us since the start and in my opinion are much more important to the character of Felicity whose name is the show like what
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was very, very, very frustrating that this whole episode, this whole finale, the series finale felt like the Felicity and Ben show with like a side helping of Nolan Sean.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sorry, but where's the rest of my meal?
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where are the rest of these characters that I really like?
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree with you.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Say, like, Elena has been given nothing to do this whole season.
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Megan has only been given scenes with Sean, where she's basically just fighting with him.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like,
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's to me, that's why I was so frustrated I'm only win.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's okay.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, oh, Megan wants to be a psychiatrist and all this other stuff.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, why have only explored any of that?
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, truly, that would make such good TV.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let us see Megan learning about psychiatry, perhaps trying to diagnose her friends.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: That would be super fun.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: But no, it's just, oh, Megan's going to probably become a psychiatrist and I'll be her first patient.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like, no, why weren't we seeing that?
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the side characters, Felicity's friends should have had so much more of a spotlight, not just in the finale, but throughout the whole season.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, Felicity and Ben have some good biceps after she decides like she's not coming back or not going to Arizona with him.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we like flash forward after Felicity is the Felicity was here on her wall and her dorm, whatever, who cares.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's in Palo Alto, it's six months later and she has decided, okay.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't just I'm trying to like not get so mad.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the funny thing is that I don't think
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is like literally what me, I was like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, this is what literally me, the most mad.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is what me, for the edge, okay?
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was walking this finale and I was like, this is whole hum, this is hum drum, this is like boring, whatever series finale, it's not like insanely offensive if we ignore the fact that Alina and Megan have barely been around.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's whatever is how I felt about it up until they had the audacity to be like, full of scenes to be a doctor.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what are you talking about?
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why did we spend four seasons of her trying to hurt herself from that?
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: This soul mad.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was so mad.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I truly don't understand why they would walk that back.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So so much.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can't even like,
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even, I can't, I can't even.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't even.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in reaction to watching this for the first time because I watched it twice now.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was a fucking doctor, are you kidding me?
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Emily, why have we spent four seasons being like, do what you love?
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Explore your passion.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what?
• 49:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said, she's not even like a...
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because in my head, I'm like, well, maybe she's going to do the like, fifty-first state thing of like combining like art and therapy or something.
• 49:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like art therapy, she's going to, for like that every way.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's going to bond grad.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wait a minute, yeah, maybe I need that too.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like art there, I wish I had that forget this smelling.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like art therapy to like combine being a doctor and art, right?
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe there's something there, but no, she's just, she's just going to be a doctor.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she's decided to go to med school in freaking Palo Alto.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you can ask me, what is the worst possible ending you think of Willis today?
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would have said she moves back home to be with one of her parents or nearby to them, and that she decides to become a doctor.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because then, and then the task on the bench showing up at the end, and then you've got the the trifecta of shitty end.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she and Ben follows her back.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's what has Felicity learned over college has she learned anything.
• 50:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there is a good argument that she has not.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: She clearly is just influenced by the people around her and cannot stand by her own decisions.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll not follow her passions, but she's allowing, you know, her mom and dad back into her life, which, you know, her mom seems to generally be okay.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, it's not, it's not wonderful, but it's not toxic.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, her dad,
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you imagine how thrilled he was that she's going to be a doctor?
• 51:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so maybe he's the real winner of the entire series.
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are we to learn from this?
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I'm learning that parents like to control their children and want them to move back after college so that they can continue being their children and not their own individual adults, at least if we're looking at it through her dad's lens.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that here's the other thing.
• 51:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have always been team null because ever since I bench the first to sixteen episodes of the first season in order to catch up to the podcast, I have said, this cannot end with her with Ben because if it does, then what have we learned here?
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are we doing here?
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stocking is okay.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stocking will get you what you want and guess what?
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is what we're learning.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is the moral of this story.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just stalk the person that you have a crush on to college.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you tell them they have to stalk you back because it's their turn.
• 52:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you just go back home, become the child that you were before you left for college.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully the person that you stopped has enough Stockholm syndrome that they will just follow you right back.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine?
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine being Lauren, okay?
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just gave birth.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You had a baby.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The guy who didn't want anything to do with you at first has been like, I want to be in the baby's life and you're like, okay, great.
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you've come around.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you want to be a father.
• 52:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to live in Arizona because that's where my family is.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to help me.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move there.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Six months down the line.
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your baby daddy turns to you and is like, do you know that girl that I like kind of sort of dated in college that I I'd proposed to for like a split second and then we didn't end up getting married and also the one that stalked me just just a little bit.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to move back to my hometown to be with her.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't told her yet.
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's possible that she's with someone else.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I really want to do that and I think you should give up your family and your comforability in Arizona and come with me to California so that I can do this and also bring that baby with you, please.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fuck all the way up, Ben.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about?
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of crazy?
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's my turn.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought I couldn't be more mad when she became a doctor Sarah.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I couldn't be more mad and then fucking Ben showed up.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got to be honest, like I would like, you know, I'm such a, I'm such a, like, I really am romantic.
• 53:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm a Pisces Venus, like,
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did like how, I mean, off the record, of course, I'm team null forever legally, you didn't get bought.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did like the ben ending of him coming to Felicity.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, let's remove like the worn in the baby stuff like then I start gang and little clouded.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like, if I forget all of that, I think it's like, no, it's going on.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really cute and romantic, how like, you know, he's like, he comes and surprises her, decides to do men at school.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, decides to do med school and essentially with her in Palo Alto.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I like the Nate because I love a friend, drassure.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like him like showing up, surprising her and being like, it's my turn.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like those kind of sound bites.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's the equivalent almost to like
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which, like, didn't work for me because it felt a little creepy and he whispered it, but that's a Dawson's Creek reference, but like I did like it, however, like once we, I think like yeah, we, we really like.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: like we really were like we're not gonna learn any lessons.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to progress or character.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to grow like college and I thought this was the point of the show.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: College is supposed to be the most transformative part of your life because it's when you
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: leave your home and ultimately go to become like your own person and become an adult, become an individual, get your own thoughts.
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for her to like kind of just fall into everything that her father wanted and expected from her is pretty fucking crazy.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
• 55:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've done, we've learned nothing.
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is infuriant again, if it was like, yeah, she still calls Megan and Elena and whatever, but like, they got almost nothing in the finale.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not even about the friends we made along the way.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's truly we have had no growth.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Felicity was so much better as a character in like seasons like two or three or whatever.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really like to her and I think it was two.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: She had her peak.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now she's like a fucking bell curve.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're now she's back where she started.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, what do we actually, again, I'm team Ben legally.
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Legally, I'm team Ben.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was very happy to see them together.
• 56:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But logically, I'm like, this makes no fucking sense.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can't just drag your baby mama and your baby to a different state because you're like, wanna be with this girl that stalks you.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, make it make
• 56:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: sense while you're going through medical school and may not even be able to get through that, right?
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And transfering credits like what, how many schools have you gone to now?
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's going to be such a headache.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take you for ten years to get through med school at this point.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we could have taken one of these things.
• 57:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but for it to be all three, she ends up back in California with her parents.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: She ends up becoming a doctor or going down that path and she ends up with Ben, her high school crush.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: We could have done with one of those things, but for it to be all three, she's lost all of her individuality and any growth that she's had throughout the last four years.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's in theory.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then to top it all off, the reason why we get five more episodes is not because of this bullshit.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because the network needed to fill time.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is also crazy.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like when you think that like I assumed like, oh, there's gonna be some sort of upward uproar.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the people were like on the, I don't know, on the Tumblr streets.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't Tumblr at that time.
• 57:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like one of those little Reddit adjacent things.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like making like complaining.
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they were just like, you know, like we need to film more time.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty crazy.
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the whole thing's pretty nuts.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like it was a fine finale.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that if it did end here, I think we would have had the same conversation.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a bunch of bullshit.
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I would have been like, yeah, like fine.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I guess there's more of the story that is that it's the Ben and Felicity show.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, maybe I was wrong all those seasons that there's a love triangle.
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I was blind.
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
• 58:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it just felt like, I mean, there's a lot of like bullshit that happened in this episode.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just like, it was just like whatever.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think this is the point where we should make before we can into any feedback we have.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we should make some predictions as to like, okay, well, how will they fill out the remainder of these seasons?
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are they seeing me, the remainder of these episodes?
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I strongly feel like the only way they make this work is by giving us another time jump.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like we have to jump through time again.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that is like my first prediction.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it will be multiple years into the future.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think we may be looking at a point where they're done with med school where Felicity is a full fledged doctor.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what they're going to do is
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: going back to our good pal Dawson's Creek.
• 59:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of these characters is going to be terminally ill and that the reason they're going to end up getting back to like all coming back together is because someone is ill because you know how it is.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get together for weddings and funerals baby.
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's going to be a situation.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it can, I think it's going to be an ironic sort of a thing where Elena, the doctor is going to be terminally ill.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's going to be like, okay, Felicity and Ben come together as doctors to save her life.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's going to be so stupid.
• 59:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I agree with you.
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's just like the Jen thing.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what I'm saying.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, we don't know what to do with Jen.
• 1:00:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like Jen doesn't have like any good story lines.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We being up treating Jen like shit for all these seasons.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what are we going to do?
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to give Jen his dying story line.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I have a clean up.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I get totally see that which I don't I don't like it at all.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe maybe Emily.
• 1:00:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the right thing.
• 1:00:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how stupid are they going to make it?
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe what happens is
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then is whatever sort of like a let's pretend it's cancer.
• 1:00:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's non-college.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's right.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's whatever sort of a doctor she will need, but he's unable to save her.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, Felicity's like, I can't even look.
• 1:00:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then she gets together with Nolan.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have a happy end.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 1:00:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 1:00:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because it's dumb.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that like you think that like she's ultimately just going to end up with Nolan?
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think at the very least in these five episodes, we are going to get the question of who she's going to pick even if she goes with no one.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do think the null thing is not done.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I think if people had a complaint about the finale, it was more and more null, what about null and Felicity?
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like they'll incorporate that into these last five episodes.
• 1:01:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, I've never seen bringing Dawn part two.
• 1:01:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I was okay with that because like, I was just like, I just don't need to see it.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't need to, sorry, for the, for the, for the uninitiated, which one is that?
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the second part of the third one, the final line part or the fourth one?
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're very last movie.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very last movie.
• 1:01:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very very very last movie.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I thought the one with Vanessa me, Vanessa me.
• 1:01:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it is.
• 1:01:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
• 1:01:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you've never seen her.
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's terrible nightmare fuel that is.
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my point is is that like I've lived my life like seeing reading all the books and watching all the movies except for the final movie.
• 1:01:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen it.
• 1:01:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm
• 1:01:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay with it.
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I live my life did a day being okay with it.
• 1:02:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like saying right here right now.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe I don't need to see the last five episodes of Felicity is my point in all of this.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're at the my life as fine portion.
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: My life is fine without it.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think, Emily?
• 1:02:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of these predictions that I have?
• 1:02:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so it's really interesting because I do think you're right about no where there is an opportunity here to do something with these last five episodes and not to like, you know, totally given to audience once because whenever you do that just for the audience that usually doesn't turn out well, however, because it was so bad where Felicity is just not a character anymore.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I do think that the thing that makes the most sense to me is that she would revisit the null situation, even if she's not like at all on board, but that null would maybe find an opportunity to express his feelings for her and what she's meant to him.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if he does that, my guess is that she still picks Ben sadly.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: The idea that Elena might be terminal ale is super sad.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But when you were talking about people, I was thinking maybe it would be Megan if it's going to be someone.
• 1:03:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of hoping that maybe it's a happier route.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really hoping it's not the Ben and Felicity wedding.
• 1:03:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what I think could be, yeah.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: What could be better might be like maybe Sean and Megan are having a child together, you know, and we're going back for a baby shower or you know, it's around time of giving birth and they want to meet the new baby, maybe it's something like that.
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Which would be, you know, I think on a much more helpful note.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think generally, Felicity does tend to want to give you that happy ending.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it would be a real turn for it to be kind of like this terminally ill storyline, even if like Ben has these connections and can get her into like a trial, you know, that could be another route where he has, you know, or Felicity has the connections to do that.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it will be interesting to see if the writers, like, rethought any of the ending.
• 1:04:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't know how anyone's sitting in that writing room saying that these are good ideas.
• 1:04:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I got it.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, yes.
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sadly, mommy's funeral.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:04:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is required to call mommy's funeral.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the most dramatic, like,
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: beautifully decorated, like extravagant funeral that ever existed.
• 1:04:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe it's so heartbreaking.
• 1:04:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's a world where we see Ruby again.
• 1:04:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's a world where we see Tracy again.
• 1:04:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm interesting.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that I think that like we, okay, because like correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think that some of the original writers did come back for the last five.
• 1:05:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you could be right.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what he said that somewhere or maybe possible.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm being hopeful.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm maybe hoping that they're like more tolerable.
• 1:05:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also we feel like this season we really lost like a lot of people's core character, but maybe we'll see more of some of the people that we really came to love in the last five.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, hopefully once again.
• 1:05:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is, that's kind of where I'm falling.
• 1:05:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm, I'm, I'm pretty nervous and I'm like, you know, I feel like I am coming into this as a unwilling participant, but I, I gotta keep going.
• 1:05:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like yesterday at the one hour and forty minute mark of my bike ride, I just have to keep going.
• 1:06:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a long bike ride.
• 1:06:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is really long.
• 1:06:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Adam is a, is a biker through and through.
• 1:06:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He loves to buy.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: See, they're just if I could get a bike seat that was comfortable for my touch.
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe, but when you have like a wider butt, like, it is uncomfy.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was, I mean, Adam could bike ride eight hours a day.
• 1:06:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we did, yeah, we did it two hour bike radio yesterday.
• 1:06:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to die.
• 1:06:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you put Belle in a little basket and the phone?
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, both.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm invited.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: That would have been really cute though.
• 1:06:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to admit I heard a little basket.
• 1:06:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's get into some feedback that we got very, very curious to hear what our friends have to say.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear what DBK has to say about the fake finale.
• 1:06:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: What up to ladies, the graduate?
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're here season finale.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: The whoopsie doopsie as you guys call it, but it's not the whoopsie doopsie finale.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the real finale.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I think in Felicity, Laura, this is this is the finale.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is the finale.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: still what they were prepared for the oopsie dupsy finale is covered up I would say.
• 1:07:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: But what do you guys think I mean I think it's a pretty decent finale considering how bad this season was.
• 1:07:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: They tie up like the little, I guess, loose ends that they had going on.
• 1:07:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, yeah, so what did you think it was almost flussy ended up with herself?
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it was Ben's turn to follow.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do we like it, do we not like it?
• 1:07:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't.
• 1:07:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: I know where it's even all and we want it.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: But are you guys happy that flussy ended up together?
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: We get it.
• 1:07:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Blumberton Crane is off to the races, you know, Megan's gonna be the psychiatrist and, you know, Elena is off to be a doctor, and Havier is still at D to the Luke I guess.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's it.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Can't wait to, I mean, it sucks that you guys were spoiled out in the double finale, is I mean, it would be hilarious to actually have your guys reactions of like what the heck is going on with six more episodes coming.
• 1:08:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: We just had like a season finale.
• 1:08:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: But, you know, buckle up ladies.
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: You have no idea what you're in store for.
• 1:08:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, until next week, peace.
• 1:08:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're really in for a rude awakening next week because so many people were like, oh, it sucks that you didn't that you knew that it was like a fake finale or whatever.
• 1:08:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like we're going to get some real chicaneary next week with people's earnings is basically what everyone's telling us.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to move on to your hand.
• 1:08:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: That feedback didn't remind me of
• 1:09:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: What I was thinking when I was watching the finale, especially the last five minutes, where it reminds me of another movie slash musical slash story that has an ending that I despise, which is Greece.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, the movie, the Toronto Volta.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:09:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I know I know Greece is a parody and I know and I've seen Greece knowing that it's a parody and still hated it where the two leads change for each other, you know.
• 1:09:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: change for each other to make each other, you know, to be what their partner wants them to be, and then they can be together and be happy as newly changed people.
• 1:09:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hate that ending.
• 1:09:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hated this ending.
• 1:09:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just, it's so frustrating.
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Andy and the leather outfit is so hot.
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I hear.
• 1:09:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I hear you should not change the gender D to accommodate somebody else.
• 1:10:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this really is the story of not changing as well.
• 1:10:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we ended up where we started in Palo Alto being a stalker.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's hear what Tammy has to say about I guess this is the real finale.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's up calling at the fake finale.
• 1:10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the real finale and the next one is the fake finale.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, ladies.
• 1:10:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Close to the end, Andy should have been investigated for exposure.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have twenty questions.
• 1:10:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, three questions spaced out.
• 1:10:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you remember the character is changing elements of their life like Megan in the course of a show or movie?
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: She still has their witchy, sarcastic inclinations, but rarely.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought of rose from Titanic, Reynolds and wealth, and her previous aristocratic life to be with Jack.
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: or Arnold Schwarzenegger from Terminator One to the second movie, going from antagonistic opponent to weaker protagonist.
• 1:11:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: All three are James Cameron movies.
• 1:11:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Two more questions, what was the planning of your lives at the time of graduation from college like?
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: She is.
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: How do things go in the first year after college and compared to what you expected from the time of graduation?
• 1:11:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, bye.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: interesting questions as always, Tammy.
• 1:11:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, when I graduated college, I graduated, my story is a little strange in that I graduated early, so I graduated in December, which is strange.
• 1:11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Most people graduate in May or something in college, and I was substitute teaching because I wanted to, if that was what I was doing to fill my time in between that and starting a master's program,
• 1:11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... this was also if you'll remember way back in the day to two thousand twelve it was like the worst time to be a teacher in our country at least at that point uh... there were no jobs there were layoffs and so everyone that was getting the calls were actual like certified teachers were getting all the substitutes calls and i wasn't so i was the most oppressed i've been except for twenty twenty that's a whole different
• 1:12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was I was really depressed and I my goal at that point was to actually be a teacher my life very much changed in like I said my life changed
• 1:12:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: the most drastically in that year that I graduated college and then again like five years later.
• 1:12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're like my two most drastic changes in terms of like the beginning of the year to the end of the year.
• 1:12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, my biggest is very different than what I imagined it would be when I was twenty oneish.
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, what about you?
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also graduated in twenty twelve but the spring of twenty twelve because I transfer schools the majors so it tacked on a fifth year.
• 1:13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had a really hard time honestly transitioning from being a college student to being an adult in the real world like I know that there's so many people that have jobs lined up when they graduate.
• 1:13:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just like wasn't there mentally honestly like I
• 1:13:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I took that summer and I was just like on one summer break.
• 1:13:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I have been for the last like eighteen years of my life.
• 1:13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was really unmotivated to find a job during that summer.
• 1:13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I spent like the summer watching Big Brother.
• 1:13:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I had just gotten Bell.
• 1:13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So spending time with my dog and learn watching YouTube videos on how to
• 1:13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: apply makeup.
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was really fucking around and it was really hard because I just like my the last place in my mind was was to find a full-time job.
• 1:13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the job market itself was like really shitty as well because we were in a recession at the time.
• 1:13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when we graduated school, we were told, oh, you should expect salaries that are X and my friends that work in jobs were accepting salaries that were twenty thousand dollars of less.
• 1:14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So much so that, like, I had a friend that, like, got a job at an architecture firm, but decided to leave because she was making more money as a receptionist, a hair salon.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, like, that was kind of, like, my reality.
• 1:14:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, ultimately, through pressure, through myself, but also, like, comparing myself with peers and my, like,
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: family.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I ultimately decided to accept a unpaid internship in New York City where I worked for almost a year.
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They gave me a stipend to get my ticket and they bought me a lunch, but yeah, unpaid, unpaid internship.
• 1:14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was really hard.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was really, really hard.
• 1:15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember like,
• 1:15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: When the following spring was coming around so I had been a year since I graduated the amount of pressure that I felt of like the graduates from the year behind me were going to start competing for the same jobs that I was about to compete for.
• 1:15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember having like a real panic.
• 1:15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: all that to say is that like, yeah, like it worked out.
• 1:15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in my the same field that graduated in.
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in into your design and design in general, but it certainly was not
• 1:15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can only imagine if I had graduated different time in my life and if I was in a different mindset how further along in my career, I could be.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, all of that says I've been with my company for eight years and I'm like very comfortable.
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty happy.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's that was mine.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Emily, did you?
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: What year did you graduate?
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I graduated in twenty ten with the music education degree.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I graduated knowing that I didn't want to be a music teacher.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I decided to come back home, so I wasn't even certified to teach in the state where my home was.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, Sarah, those months and year, maybe even more than a year following graduating was so hard.
• 1:16:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like probably the most depressing time in my life as well, where ingested that too, where I did not feel emotionally prepared, where I had just spent four years making extremely close friendships.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we all went our separate ways, none of us will have close together.
• 1:16:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you lose that to a certain extent.
• 1:16:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had really become an individual, but then was moving back into my childhood home with my parents.
• 1:16:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do as well.
• 1:16:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, and that was really hard with the power dynamic of, you know, my parents don't know how to treat me as an adult.
• 1:17:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: especially when you move back home into your childhood bedroom, you know, there are these different expectations.
• 1:17:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I went out and found jobs related to, you know, what I had studied but not quite the same and ended up in libraries and getting my master of library and information science.
• 1:17:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But one thing that I still remember is when I was making that decision to get my master's degree for library science, my dad had said to me,
• 1:17:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, I wish you had asked me or like consulted me for my opinion.
• 1:17:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, but I am like, at the time, I was like, twenty four years old or maybe twenty three.
• 1:17:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yeah, but if I know I'm going to do it and I'm capable of doing it, like, I mean, I don't want to be asking your permission.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I could have like, you know, like, let you know, I guess, but it was like, I'm not a child and you still expect me to be acting as a child here.
• 1:18:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my advice would be for anybody who has privileged enough when you graduate college, if you're able to get your own place or roommates or something to do that, because for me, at least in my experience, it was really hard to go back home and then to
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, not be a child, but your parents still be the view of that way.
• 1:18:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was really tough.
• 1:18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had the same exact experience because I moved back home either in the paradigm dynamic and the regression that I risked like had as a individual.
• 1:18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty damaging, like it really like kicked me.
• 1:18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always said that I always felt like I was like five years behind my peers and I think like a part of that was moving back home feeling like a child again or like
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: a teenager.
• 1:18:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was having the same fights that I was having with my sister and my mom before school.
• 1:19:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I moved back to my home where when I left for school, my dad was still alive and living there.
• 1:19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I came back to the same home and my dad was no longer there.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always say this, but I don't think that
• 1:19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: people give people in their twenties enough credit for how hard life is after like in your mid well your entire twenties honestly for different reasons.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that twenties is extremely hard.
• 1:19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is kind of like just trying to figure out their life and even like your friendships are like
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody has time to be like a true support in your twenties because everyone's just trying to figure out their own life.
• 1:19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: What am I going to do for a career?
• 1:19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who am I going to be with?
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where am I going to live?
• 1:19:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: What am I going to do?
• 1:19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's really really hard and like I I get so frustrated when like
• 1:20:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: fucking boomers or whomever are like, yeah, like Gen Z or I guess now Gen Alpha, they're a bunch of like lazy people.
• 1:20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't do this.
• 1:20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't get jobs.
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't.
• 1:20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have no this that are the other thing.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, well, you're not thinking about how hard it is to be a person in your twenties trying to navigate life.
• 1:20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel for somebody like a Felicity who didn't have that much had a hard time navigating your last year's school because especially for me or Emily who had a really great college experience.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Jess, I know that you barely spend any time in college.
• 1:20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: like enjoying yourself.
• 1:20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like we had like a great experience.
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had like really good friends.
• 1:20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we like built our like own life for like maybe the first time ever away from like family and to go right back into it.
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like maybe that's why
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Emily and I are so sad for Felicity to go back to Palo Alto because like we know what it's like to move back into your childhood home and just feel like shit.
• 1:21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm living in like the thought of like sleeping in my the same bed in my childhood home which I did.
• 1:21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean like it's it's it's pretty fucked.
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty fun.
• 1:21:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:21:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we do have one more piece of feedback from Jamie.
• 1:21:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, who argues this shouldn't be the fake finale because this is the real finale.
• 1:21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll call, we'll call the next finale.
• 1:21:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot believe that the next finale is going to be worse.
• 1:21:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why am I getting punished?
• 1:21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jamie says, overall, I think this episode was a great way to end the series.
• 1:22:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, it would have been much more powerful.
• 1:22:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Had the season been set up better for it, not least a time on stupid episodes.
• 1:22:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the paper chase was that whole story even necessary.
• 1:22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, does Lauren just get off for drunk driving while pregnant and injuring Ben?
• 1:22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: They should have just cut the paper to a episode out, but Ben don't leave in its place and use episode sixteen for the fallout of the accident and better set up Ben wanting to propose.
• 1:22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, I love that the finale wasn't so much about Felicity choosing a boy, but the boy choosing her.
• 1:22:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't been happy with Ben since season three, but him showing up in Palo Alto reminded me why I had been teen Ben prior to the Avery Fiasco.
• 1:22:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the ultimate friend, Drescher.
• 1:22:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: She said, grand gesture, but, you know, I'm translating.
• 1:22:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not looking forward to the last five episodes.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: This was a perfect way to end the show.
• 1:22:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I knew they were just going to fuck it up.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah.
• 1:22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And uh, the other, uh, thing Jamie, Jamie was bothered by Felicity's dad saying, uh, isn't four years of falling, been coming to an enough and her telling Ben, I've been following you for four years.
• 1:23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I do not believe that to be completely true.
• 1:23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the season two episode called The Slump, when she started seeing Dr. Prevo, and they basically debunked the idea that she came to New York to just to follow Ben.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And was also, uh, as she was also escaping the role, she was forced to play in her family.
• 1:23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wish Felicity would have stood up herself more to her father and told him that.
• 1:23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And her existence, excuse me, her existence, these past four years has also been so much more than just been.
• 1:23:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: She stayed to other people that with personal career stuff, ran for student government, successfully let us sit in in the morning after a pill to be provided for students in the health center.
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her father and Felicity herself are doing an injustice to her journey.
• 1:23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: While I'm glad Felicity decided to go with not to go with Ben to Arizona.
• 1:23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: If she had, I don't see that it's her following him, Ben proposed marriage to her.
• 1:23:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is willing to make the ultimate commitment with her.
• 1:23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They would be going together as partners to build a life together.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think this season has really proved Ben's love and devotion towards Felicity.
• 1:24:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: He forgave her for cheating and doesn't bother by the fact that she's so close friends with null.
• 1:24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, I would say now Felicity has more of the upper hand in the relationship.
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it wasn't for baby Andrew, I do believe Ben would follow Felicity to wherever she had wanted to go.
• 1:24:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, uh, as long as they're being, uh, sorry, cancels sound they're being a metal school school for him.
• 1:24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Jamie also hates they had Felicity go back to medicine.
• 1:24:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with her moving on from art.
• 1:24:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just wish she discovered something on her own for herself.
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's pretty much back on track her father on the track her father set her up when she graduated high school.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So here we go.
• 1:24:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
• 1:24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
• 1:24:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:24:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be a lot more digestible if Felicity really did go forward with architecture.
• 1:24:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a
• 1:24:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: even though it's a really sucky career.
• 1:24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a reputable career that would have like made her dad shut the fuck up.
• 1:25:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that she either she stays in New York because she loves New York or she tries a different city where nobody else is at.
• 1:25:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then he comes and is like
• 1:25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I surprised you, it's my turn to follow you and also we're going to try this new city like Chicago together or Boston or something.
• 1:25:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then they like start fresh in a new city something like we just need tweaks.
• 1:25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think like we would feel a lot differently about it if we just like she doesn't go back to medicine because
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: like it gets so murky with like her dad and the fact that like she spent like three years being like, I don't want to do medicine.
• 1:25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think like, you know, her sticking with architecture makes sense enough.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's art adjacent.
• 1:25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's logic adjacent.
• 1:25:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it mace laws sense.
• 1:25:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really liked him coming to her.
• 1:26:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but also what about the baby?
• 1:26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and the baby thing doesn't happen.
• 1:26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: None of that happened.
• 1:26:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Emily, I'd be satisfied with like erasing ninety percent of what happened in season.
• 1:26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a bad season.
• 1:26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I think when I think about season four, all I'm gonna think about is Ben, Felicity, and the baby.
• 1:26:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that I will really be able to recall anything else that happens.
• 1:26:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I so I agree.
• 1:26:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think if we could have kept at least one aspect of Felicity's identity as herself, then the other
• 1:26:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: stuff would have gone down much easier.
• 1:26:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she doesn't give a reason for wanting to be a doctor.
• 1:26:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have not seen evidence along the way that she's having these thoughts that you know what, maybe I do actually want to become a doctor.
• 1:26:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even after Ben says he wants to become a doctor, she's not thinking of that for herself.
• 1:26:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just looked at what she was saying in her verbal note to Ben, her tape recording.
• 1:27:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she says, I
• 1:27:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But now I know I'm not doing it for them because maybe I can make a difference.
• 1:27:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you know what, there are a lot of careers where you can make a difference.
• 1:27:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Art makes a difference to people, architectures important.
• 1:27:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are so many other potential jobs.
• 1:27:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: where you can make a difference and it doesn't have to be that.
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just wish that we had to see more seeds dropped along the way toward this.
• 1:27:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: But instead, she's becoming a doctor, Ben's becoming a doctor.
• 1:27:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be together with the baby.
• 1:27:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if we could have shifted
• 1:27:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: the whole Avery storyline to Felicity in terms of, oh, I helped someone and then I realized I actually do want to be a doctor or like, again, combine them.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Art therapy.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally right there.
• 1:28:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I get a smart therapy existed back in the nineties, but she could have invented it.
• 1:28:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who cares?
• 1:28:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had said medical drawing.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:28:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a medical illustration.
• 1:28:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jamie also had a few questions.
• 1:28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did anyone else think it was weird that Noll told Felicity not to go to Arizona after he had been supportive of their engagement?
• 1:28:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think if Felicity had stayed in New York, Noll would have eventually tried to pursue something with her?
• 1:28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that Ben would have been out of the picture in Arizona?
• 1:28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably.
• 1:28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a dirty dog, but it's fine.
• 1:28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
• 1:28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He loves to put things where they don't belong.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I could see it happening.
• 1:28:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, one last thing, while I do love the Megan and Felicity friendship, I hate that they basically sacrificed their friendships with Elena and Havi Air for it.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't even mention Elena and Havi Air in her dear Ben tape when she was giving an update on their friends.
• 1:28:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, why was it a dear Ben tape when we could have done a dear Sally tape?
• 1:28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We never, Sally is a ghost confirmed because we never met her.
• 1:29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it.
• 1:29:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's a ghost.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
• 1:29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So stupid.
• 1:29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So dumb.
• 1:29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: So annoying.
• 1:29:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
• 1:29:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, are we giving out a point this episode to you?
• 1:29:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 1:29:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to lie there.
• 1:29:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one deserves it.
• 1:29:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have you get it.
• 1:29:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: None of you get it.
• 1:29:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can I tell you with the next title of the episode will be?
• 1:29:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:29:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK, season four, episode eighteen.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Time will tell.
• 1:29:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's time jump, which is fine.
• 1:29:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are, but you're definitely time jumping.
• 1:29:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:29:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I still think that I think there's, I think this could be time will tell, terminally ill person.
• 1:29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just, why?
• 1:29:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because the show hates us.
• 1:29:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also like crazy.
• 1:29:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: How could they do that right after Dawson's creaked it that?
• 1:29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let me see, let me see.
• 1:29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Felicity, let's be copied Felicity.
• 1:29:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just looking to see when it ended.
• 1:29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where I can't times.
• 1:29:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, May, twenty second, two thousand two.
• 1:30:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's when Felicity ended.
• 1:30:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dawson's Creek was May, four teeth, two thousand three.
• 1:30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Dawson's Creek would have been the one copying Felicity.
• 1:30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really awkward, especially because obviously Dawson's Creek is such a better show.
• 1:30:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: They learn from Felicity's mistakes.
• 1:30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:30:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:30:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we're going to do a time jump and we're going to do it better.
• 1:30:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're still going to make someone terminally ill and kill them off.
• 1:30:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to do it.
• 1:30:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just lazy writing.
• 1:30:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was terrible.
• 1:30:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if they do a time jump, does Ben have a kindergarten or then?
• 1:30:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:30:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nobody wants to do it.
• 1:30:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to be a case where like, oh, Lauren's watching the kid today and the kid's not even there because literally who cares.
• 1:30:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we get like a wallet photo of the kid because it's early odds.
• 1:30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: People still have those.
• 1:30:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do we also have wallet photos now?
• 1:30:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way, right?
• 1:30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way people have wallet photos.
• 1:30:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if like school photos do anyway.
• 1:30:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter.
• 1:30:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we'll be discussing next week.
• 1:30:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we will have a guest, our friend Todd the Library, and we're too back to back Librarians.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: We love to see it.
• 1:31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be on chatting with us.
• 1:31:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, anything else?
• 1:31:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else we missed?
• 1:31:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this has been largely very cathartic for me to just rant and rave for the past hours.
• 1:31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: One more complaint about the ending.
• 1:31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, please.
• 1:31:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got it.
• 1:31:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was that stupid, twinkle, twinkle song again.
• 1:31:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, that the wait.
• 1:31:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was not that one.
• 1:31:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's this breathy lady voice.
• 1:31:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's terrible.
• 1:31:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have forgotten that song, but they have played that song.
• 1:31:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that can like season one and maybe season two and it just emerges me when I hear it.
• 1:31:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the whole ending.
• 1:31:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: was set up over that song as well.
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So fun.
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if it's one of those like fake songs that they had to put in because apparently Felicity had really good music, but yeah, maybe that's the maybe it was like a placeholder song and that's why it's so bad.
• 1:32:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were other good songs in the finale.
• 1:32:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, it's just, oh God, I can't wait to see how bad it's going to be.
• 1:32:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll watch it out.
• 1:32:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But is it bad because people were happy that she ended up with Ben and then they retcon it.
• 1:32:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that's why I think I personally think they're going to say it's bad because of the decisions that they had the characters make within this time jump.
• 1:32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's why and I also think if they kill off Elena or kill of anybody really, I think also the fans will be mad.
• 1:32:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think because as much as this finale felt rushed, even though the whole season was slow, having to make five extra episodes, there's bound for to be like fluff and unnecessary shit that then people are like, well, if we'd gotten the original finale, we wouldn't have to watch this, you know?
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe it's just like bonkers weird, like maybe it's just like five episodes of like the Twilight episode.
• 1:33:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to see where it has to be.
• 1:33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, no, no, no, no, no, the Twilight Zone, the Twilight Zone.
• 1:33:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
• 1:33:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I laughed in the theater and it greatly upset my best friend who was crawling when I was laughing.
• 1:33:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it was so dumb.
• 1:33:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this, I'm a jerk face.
• 1:33:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: What can I say?
• 1:33:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are meant to be laughed at.
• 1:33:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 1:33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought so.
• 1:33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was ahead of the times Emily.
• 1:33:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was ahead of the times.
• 1:33:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, anyway, so that's it.
• 1:34:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be covering next week.
• 1:34:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Emily, anything to plug anything you want people to read or watch or anything like that.
• 1:34:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I will have an upcoming appearance on one of the scribble podcast, which our friends over there have been covering Everwood.
• 1:34:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I will be on that a little bit later this month.
• 1:34:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you can find me there and then you can also find me in what was previously called the PSR patron discord.
• 1:34:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hang out there.
• 1:34:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:34:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Question, have you, Emily, this is your first time watching Everwood?
• 1:34:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:34:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fascinating.
• 1:34:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:34:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cannot wait to listen to your thoughts.
• 1:34:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a very strange show to watch as an adult.
• 1:34:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can only imagine how strange it is to watch as an adult for the first time never having seen it before.
• 1:34:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, in like fullicity, I had a misconception of what it was.
• 1:34:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: When I started Felicity, I thought it was a show about witches or something.
• 1:34:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was incredible.
• 1:35:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: The first episode is a show about stalking.
• 1:35:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: For everyone, I thought it was going to be much more of a team drama and it's really not.
• 1:35:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's much more of a family.
• 1:35:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like a family kind of show.
• 1:35:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, and I can now wait to hear your thoughts on everyone.
• 1:35:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.
• 1:35:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do go check that out over on whirlwind podcasts.
• 1:35:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, anything you would like to plug?
• 1:35:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 1:35:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:35:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can't break.
• 1:35:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome.
• 1:35:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Check out everything else we have going on.
• 1:35:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Should any spot calm or still covering Buffy the best season season four?
• 1:35:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So go check all of that out.
• 1:35:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And next week, we'll be back with season four episode eighteen until then everyone have a good one.
• 1:35:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
• 1:35:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Shit, night and show start.