Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 15 - Tombstone (1993)

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Ep 15 - Tombstone (1993) · Popcorn and Pals

• justin: Welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, and we give you our completely unqualified takes on ⁓ He's Zach and I'm Justin. And today we're talking about the nineteen ninety-three Western epic that'll make you want to be somebody's Huckleberry. It's Tombstone. Zach: ⁓ man, I'm good. How are you doing? justin: Zachary, how are we doing? Barely surviving, but we're okay. I feel like it's been a minute. How are things? What have you all been up to? Zach: Man, I haven't told you yet. So we bought a new house. It's very exciting. Yeah, yeah. justin: ⁓ you did? Wow. Well okay. Zach: So Carly and I have been searching for like two years to get into a good school district for our my son who's starting kindergarten in like two months. And so we've been searching forever, I feel like. We just like never found the right house, never could commit to a neighborhood. And nothing, ⁓ like so we've been looking for like two years and like you know, nothing will make you commit. justin: Mm. Zach: Like, all right, well we got two months left. Now we g we gotta make a move. So we ended up we ended up in ⁓ a little further south than you guys, but ⁓ but yeah, so it's it's good. We're gonna build. So actually we're not gonna get there in time. But ⁓ it's in a new n it's in like a kind of an existing neighborhood that's doing like a new phase. ⁓ yeah, so it'll be it should be good. We'll see. How justin: Yeah. So what what Okay. So what do you are you Yeah. You'll have to w what y what are you are you gonna stay in your current house until everything gets done? Is that the plan? Zach: Yeah it is. So we got the joy, so we we're trying to get Henry into the school he's gonna be at. So even though we're further away and not technically in the d district ⁓ for it, we're gonna try to get him like z like early admittance ⁓ like since we're building and we'll have be it'll be ready next semester. So this is the bullshit. So because we're out of like the school's district justin: Hm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: ⁓ we have to pay them for him to go there. Which is fine. That part, okay, I get it, we're not in the zone or whatever. But we're gonna move there. So they're like, okay, well, if you move by the time the before the semester ends, we'll give you your money back. So we have to move before December eighteenth. Our house is done, November thirtieth. So we have like a two week like delay period, grace period. justin: No. No. Just g kiss that money goodbye, buddy. It's gone. Yeah, you know. Zach: Well we can like like I was like I was I was talking to the agent and I was like, Look, I don't care who the project manager is, it's gotta be the best project manager. I'm not gonna be out this money. Get ⁓ in there, get it started. I was like, if you need us to make decisions earlier, we'll make decisions. Go, go, go, go, go. justin: Yeah. Yeah. That's Dude, it's wild. I mean, when when my wife was a teacher in that school zone or school district school zone. yeah, even like the discount that teachers would get to to bring their kids that were in other counties was astronomical. I can't imagine what you're paying full price. But just just go ahead and budget it out, man. You're not getting it. There's no way that house is gonna be done. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, whatever. I mean, you know. ⁓ I know. I was tell I was telling my dad that too and he's like, Well, they're not getting that money back I was like, it's ⁓ we got two weeks, maybe it'll do maybe we'll make it. justin: No. No way. That's exciting though. Are you so wait, are you guys going to be 'cause I know you were looking in like Franklin. Are you gonna be closer to us or are you in the Franklin area? Zach: ⁓ yeah. Well nothing podcast better than local references. But ⁓ j just for us, I'm we're actually gonna be in Thompson Station, so a little even further south. So we're really not getting much closer to you guys, which is kind of annoying. We looked in your area for so long we just could not like find something. There was some stuff in our prices, but we just did not want an old house. We've had a house from the thirties, we've had a house from the sixties justin: Sure. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: We've remodeled both of and I'm like, I'm so tired of doing house projects. So we wanted something newer just so we didn't have to justin: Man. And what you You're gonna have what do they say with new houses? You get like a decade of like no problems. It's just just clean. Like no appliance issues, no house issues, like you just in just enjoy it. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, good for y'all. That's exciting. We'll have a we'll have a Zach: Exactly. No roof issues. Everything's gonna be brand new. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we'll we'll we might be a little closer, but not much closer to you guys. justin: We'll have a funeral for Henry's enrollment fee that you won't be getting back. Well for your birthday, I'll I'll I'll give you like a hundred bucks for your birthday to help contribute to the fun. Zach: Definitely. Definitely no. You know what? That's just like that'll cover like the, you know, transfer fee or the wire fee for it, I swear. It's like everything's so expensive now. justin: I don't That'll cover the ⁓ parent teacher packet that you have to pay for. ⁓ Well good. Good for y'all. I mean, I know it's probably been just hectic and stressful, but it'll be that'll be really, really good for y'all to get in the in that system. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: Yeah, right, right, yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Wow, it's all good. This is like good problems to have, right? Like this doesn't stress me out. You know. There's a lot more there's a lot worse things going on in the world and and so getting a new house and getting my kid into the right school district, that's that's not a problem. That's a good thing, so. You gotta do it for the kid though, right? justin: Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. ⁓ that's what it's all about. These damn kids. We're doing a laundry reno, so that's fun. Yeah. Hannah got a contract with Lowe's, so we are getting Zach: Yep. Anything exciting happening with you guys right now? Okay. Yeah, for everyone who doesn't know, all twenty-five of our listeners, Hannah's v much more famous and and a much better ⁓ online content creator than we are. justin: Hmm. Huh yeah. But she got a contract with Lowe's, so we are getting new washer and dryer and new s like cabinetry and all the things for our our laundry room. Zach: If you wanna keep those washers and dryers for like six more months until we get our house built, we might need some, so justin: You can hey you're welcome to ⁓ They are we were trying to look for kinda all right, so this is a just total off topic rabbit hole, but so I mean you could probably have ⁓ There I mean I don't think you want ⁓ Have you ever seen ⁓ Our units? Yeah. They are Zach: We'll negotiate offline for prices. No, I'm just I'm just that's it with justin: Okay, before I met Hannah, before I met my wife in what, twenty sixteen, I think it was, ten years ago, I bought an old washer and dryer from some grandma. ⁓ 'cause I was like, I mean, she's selling ⁓ I'm gonna need a washer and dryer one day. I'm pretty sure they're from the eighties. What one of ⁓ is like Zach: Mm-hmm. Ha ha justin: cream yellow and it has the wood it has the wood panel on like the where you turn the knobs. ⁓ but we can't find any date markings on either of them. But I tell you this, we have used those units religiously for the past decade. We have not touched them for anything to do any kind of maintenance. ⁓ yeah. No, you you could drop these things off the off the roof and they would still run great. Zach: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, bomb bomb proof, man. Yeah. I've gone through like two dryers in that period. Yeah. justin: Yeah. I mean these things are solid. We've never had an issue. So kind of bittersweet to say goodbye to ⁓ but they look like hell. I mean, they're so ugly. I wish you could see a picture of our laundry room. It just looks like something that, I don't know, exists like thirty years ago or something, but anyway. Zach: Mm-hmm. I know, we'll have to get we'll have to get Hannah on the podcast 'cause just like putting her like Twitter or her ⁓ Twitter this is how like un justin: You are ⁓ where where are what planet are you on? Twitter Zach: This is like how unsocial media savvy I am. But we'll put her Instagram handle like in our show title and like we'll get like six sixty more views or something. It's we're talking like tens of more views, okay? Cause no one's listening to our podcast regardless. So justin: Yeah. It's all for fun. But yeah. So that's what we've been up to. We've been scrambling because we have a family reunion for Hannah's family in Milwaukee. Yeah. Milwaukee next weekend. So we gotta try to get this room done and all the things. ⁓ so it's a mad dash to the finish line. But other than that, watching Tombstone. Zach: Yeah, exactly. Mm. Okay. There you go. There you go. Yeah. It was s a special one. I wanted to watch White Earp at the same time. Like go like watch it 'cause it comes out like six months after this. It's like one of those like I don't know if parallel thought or like, you know, someone was like shopping the Wyatt Earth movie around and s someone's like, Well, that's a good idea, but I wanna pay him for it, so we're gonna write our own white herp movie kind of thing, you know? It was like that Armageddon Deep Impact thing too. justin: This is this is gonna sound terrible, and I apologize to anybody listening that's a diehard tombstone fan, because I know tombstone is cult classic. People love it. ⁓ I actually thought Kevin Costner was in Tombstone. I thought he I thought it was Kevin Costner and Val Kilmer. I didn't realize that Kurt Russell was in Tombstone. So imagine my surprise when Kurt Kurt Russell gets off the train. I was like, Who's this? What is go where's Kevin Costner? Zach: Mm-hmm. Ha ha. I thought the same thing except I like I'm like, ⁓ isn't Dennis Quaid in this one? Nope. Wrong one again. But you know it's like, hey, they came out at the same time, so justin: Yeah. Zach: But but anyways. You wanna jump into it? I feel like we've gab we've gabbed enough about things nobody's gonna care about. Me moving across town, you know. The age of your laundry machines, you know? Alright. You wanna get into my synopsis real quick? Alright. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, let's hear it. Zach: Here we go. Three brothers and their mustaches move to the Wild West. In an effort to bring law and order to this lawless town, they embark on an endless murder spree. justin: That's yeah. It's spot on. I love the mustache line too. Did you read the Zach: ⁓ yeah. I was like I gotta put them I'm I have like so many mustache facts for this, I was like I gotta get into these mustaches because it's intense. justin: I was blown away to learn that all of the facial hair except for one person, I can't remember who it was, all of the facial hair was real. Zach: It was the ⁓ the sheriff, the like not the sheriff, but the the local law guy who's like the the weasel kinda guy. He's the only one has a fake one. No, ⁓ that's the first thing I wrote down, like is Kurt Russell's mustache reel, 'cause holy shit. justin: Hmm. Yeah. It's I was blown away 'cause they're I all the facial hair looks great. And it yeah, I I Zach: Yeah. I mean I knew that like Sam Elliott can grow a mustache. He's like famous for his mustache, but everyone was was crushing it. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The mustache movie. Zach: I have it and I we'll s I'll skip right to my one of my age the best, but like hey, Gen Z bringing it back, mustaches are back, baby. This movie's coming full circle, you know? justin: It makes me wanna try to grow a mustache. Maybe the I don't know about just like the mustache clean shaven, but maybe the mustache and the stubble. That feels Zach: Yeah, yeah. I've done it a few times. Carly, you know she's into it a little bit sometimes, you know. She's like, All right. justin: I would not have taken Carly for a mustache girl. But good for her and good for you. Zach: Ha ha. Yeah. ⁓ man, no, it's ⁓ yeah, it's it's it's a look, you know. I I do not feel like most people pull it off. Even still, even though it's a popular thing to do right now, I feel like you gotta have like there has to be like a manliness to you. And it's not little we always bring him up, it's not little Timothy Chalamet, you know, hitting ping pong balls, okay? justin: Mm-hmm. The the medieval shoe. Zach: Alright, you wanna get into the podcast structure real quick? Alright, so we're gonna do a quick chat about the movie. We'll go over some ⁓ we'll compare our notes, go over some superlatives, and then finally we'll rate whether or not we think this cult classic should be a true hard classic. And then ⁓ from a real plot synopsis perspective, this movie like is pretty expansive, I felt. justin: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Zach: You know, it's like it covers a lot of territory and I have really no sense of timeline. This movie's either like six weeks long or like four years long. Right. justin: Yeah. I couldn't tell you how long it was. And they don't give you any timestamps throughout. Zach: No, not at all. You have like no con no one has kids, so there's no like aging or anything. Like, you know, it it's i it is in I that was like one thing I noticed. Like it's interesting, like nobody has children. Of the three brothers and their wives who all look exactly the same, no one has children. So it's like ⁓ but anyways, so the movie follows three brothers, the ERP brothers, led by Kurt Russell's Wyatt ERP. justin: Mm. Zach: An American ⁓ folk hero, I guess. I don't know. Out you know, lawmen of the West kind of thing. And ⁓ they moved to a new town called Tombstone in Arizona, and there's kind of like a local band of outlaws, ruffians, called the Cowboys, led by old old Michael Bean himself, and I could I don't know who the actor who plays Curly Bill, but justin: Mm. Mm hmm. Zach: ⁓ it's good it was good to Michael Bean. He's like not into enough stuff, you know, it was good to see him. He's ⁓ are you are you a fan of Michael Bean at all? justin: I don't even know who that is. Is who is that Ringo? Okay. Zach: That is ⁓ No, yeah, that's Ringo. So he is the guy who's in ⁓ he's like in ⁓ shit. Terminator. He's John Connor. Not John Connor, god idiot. ⁓ his dad, yeah. Whatever dad. Anyways, but yeah, so that's who he is. He's also in there's a movie called The Rock with it's got Sean Connery. justin: ⁓ yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's his his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: And Nicolas Cage, it's like a it's like a ⁓ it's like from the nineties. Sorry? Yeah, it's Alcatraz, yeah. And it's kinda like a like a Michael Michael Bay directed it, and it's kinda like a it's like a ⁓ 007, like in the future if Michael Bay directed one. So he's like Sean Connery is like a old British spy who's been like in an American prison for espionage for like thirty years and he gets out. justin: Mm-hmm. About the prison Is it's Alcatraz, right? Is it yeah yeah yeah. Mm. Zach: And he's basically just James Bond, except thirty year old and grumpier. So thirty years older and grumpier, but ⁓ it's a good movie. But he's like one of the he's one of the guys in that movie too. So he's also in ⁓ Alien, the r ⁓ I think the second one, with Bill Paxton as well. So lots of lots of ⁓ crossover between the sh the Michael Beaniverse. So But anyways. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm, mm. Zach: ⁓ yeah, so there's a rough a group of ruffians in the town. And at first Wyatt Earp and his brothers are there just to kind of westward expansion. Go out there, make your money, you know, find gold, find silver, open up a saloon, you know, kind of the free man of the West kind of thing, right? And they have no interest in being lawmen, but Historically, they've been lawmen and they're he's famous for it, right? White's famous for it. And so everyone's always asking him, asking him, Come on, be a lawman, lawman. This town is out of control. And really, like, through the forces of nature, his brothers, like, they kind of force themselves into the law just because it's like just what they're meant to do, kind of thing, right? It's like they can't ⁓ get away from it. He can't get away from it. So they become, I guess, like. the sheriff of the town, and in that pursuit they have a famous showdown at the OK Corral, ⁓ where he takes on some of the cowboys and kills them in a big shootout, several of them in a big shootout, which kind of leads to this like tit for tat revenge ⁓ plot narrative, right, where the cowboys are always trying to, you know, Get a i get their revenge on the Earth Brothers. The Earth Brothers keep, you know, being successfully taking some of them out and arresting them and trying to create law in this lawless ⁓ city of tombstone or and then finally there's kind of like a moment where the Cowboys get like overly aggressive, I would say, and they kill one of the brothers and shoot the other one. So ⁓ they kill Morgan, which is played by Bill Paxton. and ⁓ shoot Virgil, which is played by Sam Elliott. and so at that point, like the two brothers go off and Wyatt Earp and his friend Doc Holiday, who's who's kind of a sickly guy s suffering from tuberculosis, just become US Marshals and they just go ham. And and that's that's the murder story I referred to, right? Just go ham and start murdering you know, I guess like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: In a lawless land the law of you know, is like you can't put up with these people anymore, so they just gotta go. And so they go and they kill almost all the cowboys, right? So justin: Mm-hmm. Frontier justice. Zach: Yeah, Frontier Justice, exactly. Yeah, so it's kinda like based on a true story, right? So, ⁓ I'd be I'd be curious, did in your research did you do how true the narrative was? The OK Corral shootout is like famous, right? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I actually like I've watched documentaries on the OK Corral shootout. ⁓ I've I I've I really enjoy history of all type, but Western history especially. 'Cause it's a fascinating time period. I think that's why we get enamored with Westerns, and I think that's why Hollywood got enamored with Westerns for so long, is because it's so it it it's Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: It's that frontier justice, it's the wild west, the lawlessness, how our ancestors moved into this land and just everybody had guns and they just did what they wanted. Like that's the the fever pitch dream, right? But yeah, I think like in terms of this movie, because it's I think objectively it's a little bit of a mess. Zach: Yeah. Yeah. justin: It's all over the place. Right? Even if you love it, I think you have to be ⁓ honest and say that there are just some things that I don't know. It's ⁓ it's everywhere. But I think it's like the writer and I can't remember the dude's name because he was the original director and he backed out, but Zach: Ha ha. Yeah, ⁓ I have it written down here. It is Kevin Jar or Jari. justin: There you go. I think probably when he wrote it, it's almost like he was he was battling himself to try to have some level of historical accuracy. ⁓ especially on the big moments, but narratively in this movie, it's j it's it's all over the place. ⁓ like I have we'll get to specific examples, but like for the sake of this discussion right now, ⁓ Morgan's death. Like In the movie, Morgan leaves at a time that is just like his whole entire family is at at risk of being killed. And Morgan leaves to go play pool. It makes no sense in the movie, in my opinion. But I think in real life, Morgan was shot while he was playing pool. So it's like the writer like wanted to keep that detail intact. Like, ⁓ he was killed while he was playing pool. But like in the movie, it just doesn't it doesn't really work. It doesn't make sense. But Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, the the writing is kind of a mess. The dialogue is a little cheesy. Right. It it it it's it's the pacing is interesting to be kind, right? Like there's a lot of things I think that don't work in the movie. ⁓ I think so let's pivot back. All right, let's talk Westerns. 'Cause you're saying how you're a big Western fan or at least you love the hit the West history. justin: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Zach: And like I do agree with you, right? That there's like a romanticness. There's like two factors in the West. There's like the romantic West. It's like freedom, westward expansion, you know. Like the only thing is that you can rely on is yourself and your horse kind of stuff, right? Like it's you know, it's there's like the romantic West. And then there's like the true grit hard west, where it's like a man can be a man. Like I I see the appeal of justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: like of the Western. For me, like I've never been like a Western guy. Like I've never liked really liked Western movies. I've seen some good ones. ⁓ I've never s seeked them out. I've never seen like Sacrilege to a classics podcast. Never seen a John Wayne movie. So we gotta get a John Wayne on our list. ⁓ like I just I just do not seek them out because I kind of find them I don't know. There's like something like justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: Something about them that just is not it's not it's not for me, you know. justin: It doesn't it doesn't tickle your fancy. It's it's not your Zach: Yeah. Like we we picked this movie, right, because you told me it was your dad's favorite movie. justin: ⁓ yeah. Like my dad thinks this is the best movie ever made. And this is a man who his knowledge of movies is almost exclusively limited to Westerns. so like it is, yeah, like he Yeah, absolutely. And I mean ⁓ also, you know, like a sign of the times, right? Like when he grew up, I think that's when Westerns was really, really popular and really big. Zach: Ha ha ha. Which I mean like and that's a that's a big genre, you know. There's some great ones. justin: But yeah, I mean I have never this was the first time I've ever seen it. I've grown up with my dad talking about this movie. ⁓ and I've seen bits and pieces like years ago, I remember watching Shameless Plug for there's a documentary about Val Kilmer on ⁓ Amazon Prime. If you haven't seen it, it's really interesting, phenomenal. It dives into just his whole life and his background and all the things. But they spend a significant amount of time talking about his role in Tombstone because I think he is the best part of this movie. And I mean he's phenomenal, right? And so like I think Zach: Yeah, he stands out. We'll get the best characters, but yeah, he stands out. justin: I've seen bits and pieces of this movie through other from YouTube, from that Val Kelmer documentary, but this was the first time I'd ever seen it. And when we first started talking about making this podcast, we joked about like, ⁓ let's do tombstone. And somehow here we are actually reviewing it. Zach: Ha ha ha. justin: ⁓ And no no no harm, no foul, no shade to anybody that really enjoys this movie. Cause there are there is a lot of things to enjoy. There are certain elements about it that I thought were really entertaining. ⁓ but yeah, it's it's just kind of a jumble, I think, from start to finish. Which in the background of the movie, we're talking about like the original writer and director, he backed out. And then I don't know if you read the Wikipedia page, but they brought in another director, but then there were claims that like Kurt Russell said he was actually the director. Like it was all over the place. Zach: Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Yeah. And the director I wasn't super familiar with. And and he had a few things, but I like, okay, ⁓ nothing I was like R Rambo first blood part two. I'm like, whatever, okay. Yeah. I'm like, that that make that that tracks. You know? ⁓ Cobra. I'm like, nah, that tracks, okay. Yeah. Well, it was interesting, so Kevin Gerrari, he's only he he's like a ri the writer, right? And he wrote which I'm like justin: Ha ha ha. Zach: This is the movie we should have reviewed was Brendan Fraser's Mummy. He's the writer on that. I like, that's one we should have reviewed. I love that movie. Incredible movie. The pacing is great in that movie. The dialogue is snappy in that movie. And they were saying in this movie, I guess like the script was just huge. Like really expansive. And I think, you know, it's easy I could see how it would become easy to write like an epic justin: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. The mummy's phenomenal, yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Zach: Which especially with this character in out in the grandeur of the West Arizona and all that stuff. And you see it in like the Kevin Costner version or other Kevin Costner Westerns. Or, you know, I think that Western genre just lends itself to this kind of epic storytelling grandeur. And when they were, you know, he gets fired, the director comes on, he's kind of butting heads with the crew, justin: Yeah. Zach: Kurt Russell's in there trying to claim to be a director, possibly was, you know, kind of thing. They're cutting the script up. And I'm like, you can really feel they're like, we need to cut the script down. Instead of losing scenes, we're just gonna make the dialogue more efficient. Damn it being convincing, right? Or damn it being, you know, character motivations. It's just like, let's just cut the script up as much as possible, get it as efficient as possible. justin: Yeah. ⁓ Zach: Where even though I wasn't a huge fan of LA Confidential, but the when you're when I was reading this, it just was reminding me of like kind of the stories behind that movie where it was this huge sprawling noir epic and they cut it, but w how they cut it was different. This movie feels like it was cut and they couldn't lose a scene. To your point, right? About like the pool table scene where they're he's gotta get shot at the pool table. Damn it if it's like Four in the morning in the West, right? You know, right? Like he's gonna get shot at the pool table it because that's what happened. Whereas, like ⁓ in LA Confidential, they were like, cut this character out, cut this character out, lean it up, focus on these three characters. Like how you lean it up is about the narrative of these three characters. If it doesn't support that narrative, it goes away. We don't have you know, it's like they felt like they needed to keep everything. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: With at least that's how I feel watching it. Like I felt like I had to keep everything and it kinda sacrifices the characters. I I wrote like in the second half of this movie when he gets its when he gets his second crew with like I think it's like ⁓ isn't it Michael Rourke on it? Or Michael Rorker or Rooker? justin: Yeah, like I I d yeah, it yeah. It was I mean I know him from Walking Dead, but I know he's a bigger actor. ⁓ Zach: Yeah, he's ⁓ he's ⁓ justin: He's Dale's brother. ⁓ yeah, he's in ⁓ Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Zach: Gardens of the Galaxy, right? Yeah. ⁓ but yeah, he Yeah, yeah, he's Dale's brother because his hand cut off too. Yeah. But I mean like when he gets in it, like that whole crew, I don't know any of their names. Don't know any of them. We spend like a third of the movie with his new crew, no personality given to any of them other than like they walked up on the day that his brother got murdered and be like, I heard what they did, I'm on your team now and that's like character development, right? It's like justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm yeah, I don't mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now Yeah. Zach: 'Cause they gotta be there 'cause he's got a new crew. Like you just could keep your brother in maybe attitude, right? Or like whatever. Like it doesn't have to be historically accurate to make this just the story leaner and smoother and more efficient. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I think you hit the nail on the head. It it's exactly what it feels like. It felt like disorganized chaos ⁓ at the at the worst parts of of this movie. But yeah, there's definitely I I jotted down a bunch of examples that kind of fall into that category of it just felt like things were rushed or they didn't want to cut things out. And so But it's a shame because I think like the first Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: Like my overall take of this movie was the first half of it, like it definitely had goofy moments. There's really bad writing, cheesiness, all the things, but I really enjoyed the first half of this movie. ⁓ it was just kind of fun. It was a fun world to get lost in. But the second half, it just like fell apart, completely fell apart. And it's Zach: Mm-hmm. See, like I I was like the opposite of you. I was like, okay, the mi the beginning to me was like kinda slow and they're just running through exposition and they're trying to establish everything. And then I think when it gets to the okay corral, between the okay corral and Morgan's death, I was like, Well, there's some tension in this movie at this point. And it's like, you know, I was a little more gripped by the narrative. And then yeah, once Morgan dies and he goes all like justin: Mm-hmm. Mm. It it goes off the rails after Morgan. Yeah. Zach: US Marshall just It's just a montage of murdering people. I felt I wrote down like are the cowboy like I feel like they keep adding more cowboys to the group as the movie goes along further because he's like he's killing them. I feel like it started out with like a posse of like 30 people and it ended with like a hundred and fifty people dead. So justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. There were ton. Yeah. ⁓ it's Zach: I was like, isn't he killing them all? Like I feel like they're getting more and more. Why are people joining this group? justin: I would yeah I I yeah, I would like to know what the final tally is 'cause he he carries out I mean it's it's straight executions in a lot of ex examples. Zach: ⁓ yeah, he's like walking in some guy's like high in a opium den. He just gets in there, puts the barrel in his ⁓ mouth mouth, shoots him straight in the head. For all he knows, this is the all this guy does is just kinda like mess around in the background with these guys. You know? How what crime has he committed that you know of, you know? justin: Yeah. Frontier. Exactly. Mm. Yeah. Zach: Other than affiliation with the cowboys, right? But ⁓ all right, you wanna get into our categories or do have any more thoughts before we get started? justin: No, no, let's kick it off. Zach: Alright, so our categories are or our superlatives are best scene, best character, worst character or weakest link in the film, depending how we want to look at it. age the worst the WTF are they talking about or what are they talking about? What would be a good sequel? Or what would happen the next day kind of thing? And then which is interesting, right? 'Cause he's like a real person. But okay. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: And we get the fun narration at the end. Water walked into the sunset and kissed himself a new girl and ventured the rest of his life. Lived to the ripe old age of one million or whatever they said, I don't remember, but like Anyways. And then we'll get into hot takes and nitpicks. So let's start off with best scene. justin: God. Yeah. ⁓ can't wait to talk about that. Mm. Zach: Anyone that you want to nominate first? justin: ⁓ I think I've really got well, okay. I'm gonna lump ⁓ all. I have one real true nomination and then like a lump. 'Cause I I like any scene that Doc Holiday is in with Val, I mean it's he steals every scene that he's in. So it's hard to narrow it down. ⁓ from the first intro into Doc to his ⁓ first meeting with Ringo when they're at the Oriental and they're kinda, you know, going back and forth and Zach: Yeah, he's great. justin: all the things like all of Doc's scenes are really good. I think my my favorite scene was the standoff between Wyatt and it's Wyatt and Doc and then the Cowboys after Curly Bill kills the sheriff. He gets I I think he's high. I don't even he might be high and drunk, but he goes on a shooting spree and he kills the sheriff. ⁓ but at that point you have The Cowboys and the Earps are kind of like they cross paths. The Cowboys are kind of douchebags, but they're just rowdy, right? And they kinda there's a little bit of friction, but this scene is where it all comes to a head. And Wyatt jumps in, he he knows that he can't let Curly Bill go after killing the sheriff. And so ⁓ I but I mean, this whole standoff, I was on the edge of my seat. Because like you said, it this is Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: kind of leading up to the okay corral. This is the incident that kind of escalates it to get to that point. Zach: Mm. Yeah, if anything, this is the starting point of the ⁓ of the the conflict in the movie. justin: Yeah. But I think it's when he has Ike. Fucking Ike, man. ⁓ but Wyatt Wyatt has Yes, he does. 'Cause they let him go like three times. Like what are you doing? But but Wyatt tells Zach: Survives the whole thing, man. I gets through it all. He'll he'll kill the poor opium guy in the den straight gun to the head and he will Ike's like, ooh, I give up and he's like, Alright, well I can't kill him now, he gave up. justin: Yeah, but he w but he will not kill Ike, like for Yeah. He's got Ike at gunpoint and he says he tells Wyatt, keep your like d tell your guys don't rush me or I will I had I wrote this down. He said he will turn his head into a canoe if his boys rush him. Zach: Yeah. justin: It it I don't know, but it Ike sees that he's not bluffing and then Doc comes out. Doc makes a fun one-liner because he's drunk and all the things, but that whole scene was really tense and it was really perfect. And at that moment, like I hated the cowboys. I wanted them to get into a shootout right there because it was like the feeling was perfect, but Zach: I also don't know if Wyatt knows what a canoe is, 'cause yeah, you're gonna blast a hole in his face, but it's also gonna go out the back of his head and holes in canoes don't really work, you know what I'm saying? So It is a great it is a good line though. I almost wonder if it was like true. justin: Right. Yeah. That we should we should probably Yeah, we should put that under WTF are they talking about? Because there there's a lot of lines. I was like, what? What does this mean? But yeah, that's my nomination for best scene. Zach: Ha ha ha. Yeah, I had like yeah, one of mine was like yeah, like when Doc and ⁓ Wyatt meet out in, you know, for the first time when they get the tombstone. Or like again it's like or when Doc and Wyatt are in, you know, playing cards at the bar and there's a lot of tension or when Doc is in I was like I had you didn't have the play scene on there when they go watch the play? justin: Mm. It's all d it's all dark. Yeah. Zach: And an old b Billy Zane a young fresh faced Billy Zane shows up. justin: ⁓ yeah. No they're When he jumped out of that carriage with ⁓ that has to be a wig, right? Do you think that was his real hair? It Zach: I don't know, he 'cause he's only he's what, four years from Titanic and in Titanic he's wearing a wig. So I'm like I think he's just wigging it up his whole career. Yeah. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think he was, 'cause that hair was too perfect when he hopped out. ⁓ betwe there I tell you one thing, there was a lot of th like big name actors that I'd I'd never knew that they were in this movie. ⁓ like Zach: ⁓ no, the cast is stacked. Especially I will say this on the male side. I feel like I didn't know any of the female actresses. Yeah. justin: Mm. Yeah, same. I didn't e even ⁓ Josie. I had no idea who Josie was. Zach: So she, fun fact, is 'cause what's her name? Jose Yeah. justin: Dana Delaney. Zach: But I think in my research she is married to ⁓ To the writer I believe. To the jar guy. Let me let me double check that right here. Through the magic of editing, this will be much faster than what I'm currently doing. justin: Mm. Zach: Spouse spouse spouse spell spouse. Hold on, never mind. Maybe this is So it's okay, here's Wikipedia. Okay, 'cause like this doesn't make sense to me. So this is proving how like shit Wikipedia is. So it says in the n early nineties he dated actress ⁓ Lisa Zane. ⁓ no, no, this is this is this is just me misreading things. There you go. So he dated actress Lisa Zayn, who he had wrote the part for Josephine for in Tombstone, ⁓ but then she didn't get the part. justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zach: she is related to Billy Zane, which is fun. But ⁓ this was a waste of time. And ⁓ so apologize. So justin: Yeah. through through the magic of editing we'll cut it out. Or just leave it in. Everybody can go on this journey with us. Zach: I was like, either Wikipedia's wrong or my memory is wrong and it turns out I am wrong. So that's ⁓ that that seems far for the course, so justin: So outside of all of Doc's scenes, what was did you have a specific favorite Doc scene or other scene? Zach: Alright, I'm gonna throw some out there. Just as like contenders, okay? So I ⁓ what about like when Curly Bill dies? And you know, Wyatt stands up in the river and he's like, No, no. Like, that scene do anything for you? I think it's supposed to be like an epic moment in the movie where he's like justin: Sl the slomo. I have Zach: Like divine I think like 'cause then the like the myth around him is like that he was like divinely protected. Like you couldn't even shoot him, even though he was in all these shootouts. I think justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's in that's like actually according to historical record, like bullets couldn't touch him. He his duster had like five or six bullet holes or something in it from where like the bullets didn't hit him but they went through his clothes. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yes, I I guess that's supposed to be this epic moment in the film, right? So contender or not? justin: Yeah. ⁓ no. It was terrible. You've you're you're you're poaching some of my age the worst ⁓ territory here. Zach: No I I thought it was so silly. Ha ha ha. So how about the Ringo I this is a Doc one, but how about the Ringo Doc Showdown? justin: That was just weird. ⁓ it yeah. Zach: Like when they're walking around each other, like and they're like literally walking, they're so close together. For a shootout, they're like this is it's like literally the same problem I have with my son when him and I are trying to play catch. I'm like, dude, back up. You are two feet from me. You are too close. Like you're gonna throw as hard as you can. I can't it's gonna go wild and hit me. It's like back up. justin: Yeah, they are. Yeah. That you know, you actually might be on to something here because that the end of the standoff is so bizarre that it might be a contender for best scene. Just the fact that they left it the way that it was, when he shoots Ringo in the head, and then it's almost like I I almost kinda got creep Zach: Yeah, it's like his brain's like misfiring or something, right? Yeah. justin: Yeah, I I almost got like creeped out 'cause Doc is like, Come here, come here. Like he's trying to get him to walk towards him and it's just like a weird why would you write it? Why would you do that? What's the point of filming that? It's just odd. A very bizarre choice. Zach: Well and they make it what's weird to bat it about it to me, and again this is probably like to your point, right, like they want to keep the historical accuracy or the ⁓ like the narration that was originally written, so Curly has to die before Ringo does. But I'm like, your setting justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zach: Curly Bill up as like the main villain of the movie. I think the actor's kind of overacting and kind of goofy at times. But like he's the main villain, and then yeah, you have this like triumphant scene where he can't get touched by bullets, and even if the it is again a little the the dialogue's a little goofy and it's kind of shot a little silly. Or at least I felt that way, right? ⁓ it's like not the climax of the movie. The climax is with justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Zach: Ringo and ⁓ and ⁓ Val Kilmer and Doc Doc Holliday and you're like and they had like one scene together that kinda set it up, but it wasn't like it it didn't feel earned, right? Like his character didn't feel earned as the climax of the movie. The showdown between them just didn't feel earned. And it's like even in the narration, it's like, Well, I was just messing around that day. He's like, Well, I wasn't justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. I mean it's I don't yeah. I have a whole thing about ⁓ Curly Bill and just him being set up as the villain and it it it doesn't pay off at all. But there's so many choices in this movie. ⁓ and it like yeah, it just doesn't s doesn't make sense. Zach: And I'm like, Yeah, it's not even earned in their minds. All right. So la last one, what about the shootout at the OK Corral? justin: Yeah, shootout was cool. ⁓ Zach: Yeah. Like I think like it it's probably most cinematic, all four of them walking up together. They have like the Again, just just movie's so silly. But they're all like staring each other down when they walk around into the alley, right? And they're like it's ⁓ it's flashing between everyone's faces, they're doing the thing, you know? And ⁓ and then White Herp says, ⁓ my god, or something like that justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: And then they start shooting at each other. He's like, ⁓ dear God or whatever. justin: Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I think he sees some I don't remember who it was. I think it was ⁓ what's I don't I don't remember the actor's name, but I know he was the bad guy in Georgia the Jungle. ⁓ But I think he like sees him making a move or something. Is that what his name is? ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. From Spider Man. Yeah. Yeah. I think he maybe s is yeah. Zach: No, Tom you talking about Thomas Hayden Church? Yeah, he's Sandman from the Spider Man movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's in Sideways and stuff, yeah. Or s yeah, Sideways, right? That's the wine one with Paul Giamatti. justin: But that actually all of that historically, which I think going going back to this whole point of like they probably wanted to be historically accurate, that was always a point of contention of who shot first. And the ⁓ the Clantons always said that the ERPs they they shot first and they carried this out in cold blood, that it was cold blooded murder. And I think you kinda see a little bit of that because I feel like the ERPs, I think they do shoot first. I can't remember in the movie, but Zach: They're definitely the aggressors, right? Like now, like they're getting threats, right? And they're in town and they're like, It's gonna go down and they're like, Fine, if it's gonna go down, we'll meet you we'll meet you first. So like they're a g the they're ⁓ they're meeting their the threats of the cowboys with the aggression. With aggression, right? justin: Mm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. But I think yeah, you kind of see that displayed in in the okay corral shootout scene because yeah, you have that wonderful line by Kurt Russell. ⁓ my god. And then it just I don't know, it just escalates from there. Somehow Ike gets away again. Zach: Yeah. Ha ha ha. Well and I I did not realize it was like so early in the narrative too. Like I would have thought, you know, that was like the f end of the film and I like, ⁓ shit. They're like yeah, they're in the alley behind OK Corral and I'm like, We're already here, we're already doing that. He just became the police officer like yesterday. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think honestly, you know, if if there was a way to go back in time and redo this movie, I think if you split it across two movies, Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: You could have done this in such a better way. Cause yeah, to your point, like the okay corral should have been like the climax scene. Everything that comes after it feels like they were just rushed to try to get it filmed and squeeze it in so that you can complete the story, but it just doesn't pay off. It it feels so disjointed. but yeah. Zach: My two my two notes on that scene is No Earth Brother takes cover. They're just standing there. I was like two of ⁓ get shot, but no one's taking cover. That's one. And then at the end of it, the the actress Josephine comes out and then is it Maddie? Is that his wife's name? She comes out and like people are making goo goo eyes at each other and I'm like, we just we're in a shootout guys. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know. Yeah, there's people dead. ⁓ there's people injured. And y'all are gonna sit here making googly eyes at each other. It just doesn't work, man. Zach: Your brothers are injured and you're like Like the whole romantic slubpo subplots in this movie I'm like I don't get it. I wasn't sold on it. But anyways. So what's your so your pick? Final verdict. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-mm. Let's go with the okay corral shootout. Cause I think it has everything. ⁓ it's got the tension. Yeah, it's got goofiness, tension, love. It has everything that you could want. Ike Clanton gets away, I think, for the first time. or no, that's the second maybe it's the second time. I don't remember, but he gets away. Zach: Okay. I think it's probably the one of the more fun scenes of the movie, yeah. The tension's good. Yeah. No, that's his second time, right? 'Cause he gets taken to jail the first time after he like Yeah. I don't know. Or second or third time. I He gets away like four or five times, so justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they let him go every single time. It was the most frustrating thing for me. Zach: Alright, I agree. Let's do it. Alright, let's get into best characters. justin: easy. Take two seconds, Doc, Val Kelmer, done. Next, superlative. No, he was I mean he is the movie. I think this is what makes the movie I feel like if if he was not in this movie, y I don't think Tombstone would have the reputation that it does, truly. Zach: Ha ha No, no doubt. justin: I think what it felt like to me, and this is probably just the millennial speaking here, ⁓ so please don't anybody get offended. Before Heath Ledger was Joker, Val Kilmer was Doc Holliday. That's what it Zach: That's you literally were like it's like what that classic thing like the Dark Knight for Heat Ledger's performance alone, right? It's like tombstone for Valkyrie's performance alone kind of thing. It literally was thinking the same thing as me. justin: Yeah. Exactly. He he's he steals every single scene. You look for him at every scene 'cause you just want to see Val Kelmer. He's so good. which I'm not like a big Val Kelmer buff. I've seen Top Gun, I've seen ⁓ Heat, ⁓ I don't know. It's good. Yeah. I ⁓ well sorry. I didn't spoiler. Zach: We need to put heat on our list. For sure. Yeah. I've never seen it. It's okay. I Valcomer's in it. I'm not like it's it's a it's a like a thirty year old movie. It's fine. justin: Yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean I yeah, he was this is by far the best thing I think I've ever seen him in. He's no. No, absolutely not. But yeah, he's just he's hands down. I mean, there are so many other good actors too. I I had a c a very, very close second was ⁓ what's his name? Virgil, ⁓ Sam Sam Elliott. He's great. I Zach: Not Batman. Sam Elliott. Yeah, he's great. He's just meant to be a cowboy, you know? Yeah. justin: Yeah, I I'm pretty sure he hasn't aged a day since nineteen ninety three. He looked the exact same. ⁓ but hi and even just his character, Virgil, I thought Virgil was written vr very, very well. but Valcalmer is you can't you can't touch him. Zach: No. It does. What about Kurt Russell? White herp as wide herp. justin: You know, honestly, kinda hit and miss. More miss for me. Like I I don't know. I couldn't get a beat on him. Like he was Yeah. Yeah. I'm an actor. I mean, I don't know. He was fine. I I I think the very first scene soured me on him his character. I don't think it has anything to do with him, but when when Wyatt gets off the train and he sees that dude whipping a horse Zach: Mm-hmm. There's a lot of acting going on, you know? Acting, I'm an actor. justin: And he s stops him from whipping the horse and he holds his hand and then he it was so cheesy and it was so goofy. No exactly. Y yeah, no exactly. It's so cliche. I'm anti cliche is what I am. Zach: That's supposed to make us like him, Justin. He doesn't let animal abuse, you know? So you're pro animal abuse is what you're saying. No, I r I think I wrote like cliche like six times down in my notes as I was like going through this movie. No, I I agree. He does like some it's his writing the writing of his character is very justin: Yeah. Zach: It's okay, yeah. Like and he oversells it a couple times and I don't know. What about Bill Paxton? What about Morgan? justin: Yeah. Honestly, I'd kind of equate him to just a piece of furniture in the room. I really I hate to say it. He's a great I I like Bill Paxton. I have nothing against him. But he just didn't it's like he didn't have a whole lot to do. Honestly, I thought he was a little bit of a Zach: I love Bill Paxton, so yeah. This is the same year I think as True Lies and he is like incredible in True Lies. But justin: Yeah. He honestly he kind of I mean, out of the Eark Brothers, he's by far the weakest link, but he kinda comes off as a little bitch in in a lot of the scenes. Like there's yeah, I don't know. He just kinda goes with the flow. He I feel like Morgan doesn't really add or take away anything. He's just there. He's background noise. Zach: Mm-hmm. Any of the ⁓ villains you wanna put as like best character or do you wanna put them as worst character? justin: ⁓ I've got worse character filled out. Zach: Okay. Alright. I mean I don't even know why we're debating this. It's like very clearly Val Kilmer's movie. Like he walks away with like the trophies. I don't think this movie won any Academy Awards, but like if there's one to give, it's his. Yeah. Alright. Worst character. ⁓ besides like the ADR wives in the whole movie there the whole time. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so who's your worst character? You know, I you you you called it out earlier that you didn't recognize any of the women in this movie. I couldn't even tell you outside of Maddie, I couldn't tell you which was Morgan and Virgil's wife's girlfriend. I couldn't tell you. No idea. Zach: Just hysterical and ADR'd the whole time. Well the all the three wives all look the same. I mean they comment on the movie that we could be sisters, but I'm like guys can get like some height variation just for for us, the audience, you know? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like nothing. I I don't even know if they say their names. I'm sure they probably do, but yeah. Zach: ⁓ it's Mrs. Earp, Mrs. Earp, and Mrs. Erp. They're the Earp ladies. justin: Yeah, the herbs. Hey, that's a solid pick for worst character, because they are they're pretty weak link. God. Zach: So Alright, what's your what's your nomination? Let's go through the two main villains, right? Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo or whatever his name is. Ringo Johnny. Johnny Rico star Ringo. justin: ⁓ Ring Ringo Star. Curly I had Curly Bill as the worst character. And for multiple things, but I think I don't know if he was poorly cast or he was poorly written, but he was the most unintimidating villain I think I've seen in a very long time. He was just he was the goofy red shirt man to me. And especially in the like in the very beginning, you know, when they storm that ⁓ it's like a Mexican wedding and they kill everybody. Zach: No s so first of all, my note on that. that is the most boring wedding I've ever seen. It's like a and the music is so cliche. They're like rushed riding up to like you know, it's got the the very intimidating cowboy music and then it flips to the wedding and they're like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. justin: Yeah. But I mean it Yeah. Everything is just I don't know, that whole scene was supposed to strike a chord with us as as as the viewers that like ⁓ yeah, like this he's bad man. Like he's he is terrible. You should be scared of Curly Bill. And he was just goofy the entire movie. Like ⁓ every scene that he was in, every threat that he threw, nothing felt scary. Zach: Yeah, it's supposed to set them up as like these are bad dudes. Yeah. The only time I think I felt threatened by him was when he was high and he was shooting randomly, but it was because he was like a wild card, not because he was intimidating. justin: Mm. Yeah, exactly. And I think also you touched on it, ⁓ but he wasn't i it's like they set him up to be the main villain because he is the leader of the Cowboys and he is Wyatt's like nemesis, so so to speak. but he wasn't even the climax like final battle. ⁓ I felt like his whole Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: Death we'll we'll get into it, but it it just didn't feel earned and it hi I feel like that was the final nail in the coffin to a terrible villain. ⁓ but Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I think he's like he's pretty weak, honestly. He you know, yeah. He's a pretty weak link. Like Ringo has the look. He's very intimidating looking. But you don't spend a lot of time with him. Like one thing I think this movie, while it's incredibly cast, 'cause I was gonna add a third character category of like best like ⁓ hey, look at the look, it's ⁓ it's Mickey Rourke or you know, or not Mickey Rourke, it's ⁓ Michael Rooker, it's mm Michael Bean, it's Thomas Hayden Church, you know, there's like so many there's Billy Bob Thornton, right? Like there's so many like ⁓ Billy Zane. I'm not going through all the whole list, but there's so many of those like justin: Yeah. Mm. Big names before they were big names. Zach: big name actors that are in this movie, so it's it's you know it's really well cast and a lot of famous people, you know, early, early, early, you know, were caught early in their career in this movie. ⁓ but it's almost like that's almost to its detriment. It's like very bloated with characters. For a two hour movie, like there's like what, ten police characters I could I can only name justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: A few of One second, sorry. Hey bud, you're not gonna say hi to J Uncle Justin? Hey gotta put your headphone in so you can hear You don't wanna hear ⁓ No. Here. You gonna say hi? Hi. Good. justin: Hey Henry. Hey buddy. How's it going? Are you getting ready for are you getting ready for bed? Yeah. How are things? Zach: Sh you shy on the camera? justin: Good. We're gonna get you on the podcast here soon, buddy. We're gonna talk about Pokemon and Zach: Yeah. What movie do you want to talk about? What's your favorite movie? Nothing. Nothing? You have no favorite movies. Not even not even Space Jam? justin: We just watched we watched ⁓ we watched Hoppers tonight. Zach: Juicy hoppers? Yeah. justin: ⁓ Hoppers was so good. Zach: was pretty cool. Alright, but what's up? What do you need? Yeah, buddy. Did I watch I watched it The Hobbit. You watched The Hobbit? Yeah. The animated Hobbit. justin: was gonna say, good call, as long as it's not the live action. Zach: I tried to show him the Lord of the Rings and Carly was like, What are you doing? It opens up I was like, It's a fun movie. justin: Hmm. Yeah. It's a great movie for kids. It it teaches it it's a cornerstone of morality. Zach: Ha ha ha. Alright buddy, hey, are you gonna and you wanna go see go g go get your mom, okay? I love you. Where's mom? I don't know, maybe go check her our our room, okay? Alright, but hey, can you close that door on your way out? Thank you. All right. Podcasting. ⁓ but yeah, no, I was saying like ⁓ the the movie is loaded with characters. There's ten police officer characters, there's fifty cowboy characters, and like in that okay like literally in the okay corral, probably for historical accuracy, right? Like they have all these characters in there and there's there's they're flipping between the faces of the Earth Brothers and Val Kilmer and Doc Holiday, right? And so you know them, but then there's flipping to the OK Corral. justin: Mm. Zach: Or to the excuse me, cowboy characters. I mean other than the fact that it's like, ⁓ that's you know, Thomas Hayden Church. You know, like new cast of characters as far as I was concerned during that scene. Like I've no idea who any of these were, besides Ike. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Ike was ⁓ Ike was prevalent throughout. You you you bring up a funny point 'cause okay, the two lawmen, I actually didn't know I couldn't tell which one was which for a long time. So there is the I think the main local law guy I think he had like the bowler hat and I think maybe he was dating Josie or something like that. ⁓ but when they first get when the herps first get into town, he's the one that greets them. There's him, and then there's the dude from Lost. Zach: Yeah, he's the mayor. I was I was those say that's another one. Guy from Lost. ⁓ Locke from Lost. justin: But like they but they look somewhat similar. I don't even know if there was an introduction to the dude from Lost, but he he looks very similar to the local sheriff. And I thought that was him at one point. And I was like, wait, when did he get older? When did there's so many people, there's so many characters, and there's Mm mm. Zach: Well and yeah, they don't take a lot of time yet. They they introduce the kind of snivelling County Sheriff or whatever he is, right? Opposed to like the town sheriff. And then they kinda like mention the mayor in passing and then all of a sudden he's like in more scenes and they don't really like spend time introducing people so you get established. And they don't keep it so tight that you can like follow along with it. justin: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Completely agree. Zach: ⁓ yeah, so worst character, I think Curly Bill, that's a good contender. I think he's like worse from like he's the villain of the movie, but also worse because he's like not e he's like the main villain who can't even make it to the end. And then the actor is kind of ⁓ struggling a little bit, let's just say. justin: Hm. Yeah. He w he felt like he was out of his depth or he didn't he just didn't know how to play him. I mean he was I don't know. I feel bad for the guy, but he was not the pick. Zach: Yeah. Alright, let's get to ⁓ our next category, which is age the best. justin: Mm. For me, ⁓ sets and production quality. ⁓ I think that's what I enjoyed the most out of the first half of the movie is it it actually felt like a real world. It kind of ⁓ I know they I read online that like they really tried to stick to historical accuracy on so many things. And I think you can see it, like those sets were very, very well done. I don't know if they built that town. I think they said it was like shot in two different locations, but ⁓ from like the open town with actual buildings to the inside of the saloons, even to there's the scene where Wyatt and Josie are riding around on their horses like up in the mountains and they're actually there. I mean you can see this beautiful backdrop behind them. Everything was very pretty to look at. I thought it was very, very well done. That's what honestly I think my favorite part about this movie was is like how how real The environment fell. Zach: Yeah, like c kinda when they let the cinematographer like do his thing, which I think there was a lot of contention between the cinematographer too and and the director. but when they let him do its thing and you take those big sweeping c west shots and you look through the town and the town's set design is great and they got the vistas of the Arizona countries you know, country. It's just like I just put like I wrote down in Age of the Best, like the Wild West is just a great justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: movie location. You know. I think there's movies that do it better. It's almost worse nowadays 'cause they focus so much on like, well, I want to have, you know, that particular mountain over there. So they do all these like CGI backgrounds. And I do love the nineties and eighties when they're doing a w or really even the fifties, sixties and seventies, when they're doing a western. They just like let the real country be the star. And I do think the Wild West has just justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: Like great, great, great movie location, timeless, it's perfect. justin: Yeah, for sure. Zach: I had I I had we talked about it. I think the casting is great in this movie. Really well cast. ⁓ I put man I miss I miss I know we talked about it already, but I miss Bill Paxton. I miss Fal Kilmer. I'm like, ⁓ th they were great, you know? ⁓ I miss ⁓ It they age the best 'cause I love them so much, and they age the worst cause I miss ⁓ so much too. No, I know. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. You got it in both categories. ⁓ Yeah. No, I mean it's I don't know. There's something that's very Yeah, they're very good actors and it's I know we we just have like a different caliber of actors and actresses in today's like modern movies, but there is something very unique about how they used to do it back back during that era. Zach: Yeah. No, I li I do miss them. And then I put of course, Age of Best. The stashes, you know. Yeah, they're great. justin: Mustaches. They're really, really, really well done. I was very blown away to f to learn that they were all real. Zach: Alright, anything else for you? No, it was incredible. Well, I literally yeah. I had no idea that Kurt Russell's mustache was real. I'm like that is incredible. Well done, sir. Yeah. Alright, you ready? Let's age the worst. justin: No. It's impressive. You kick it off. What'd you have? Zach: So the narration opens up. So this is like modern narration. One, ⁓ aid's the worst narration. But two justin: Yeah. Zach: But to in the narration, he says it was like worse crime than modern day LA or New York. And I'm like, thirty years later, I'm like, those are not the worst two cities in this country. justin: Hm. Yeah. Maybe I mean maybe the murder montage at the end, but ⁓ yeah, I don't know. Those are wild claims by the narrator. Zach: Ha ha I was just like there's just the narration at the beginning and end of that movie. I was like, ⁓ my god. It's just not well done. Yeah. ⁓ there's so much ADR in this movie too. And it just it stands out like so hard. And you can just tell they're like focused testing the movie justin: Yeah, it's really, really goofy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: And someone's confused and they're like, Alright, it's a bar fight. Have someone yell out in the background, Well he he's hit him with a bottle, you know, like so that you know he hit him with a bottle. And I'm like, What? He's like, Why did Arp just got here and he's and he's holding a pistol? I'm like, Yeah, we can see it. I don't need someone to yell at an ADR in the background. justin: Yeah. Zach: Anyways. What ⁓ what do you got ⁓ justin: ⁓ we touched on it, but I think ri just the entire ending, I think, age the worst. 'Cause it's just such a jumbled mess. But from the murder montage, and specifically like Curly's death, We Won't Beat a Dead Horse, ⁓ it just moves so fast and it feels you put it perfectly, it doesn't feel earned. ⁓ but I think to have Zach: Ha ha ha. justin: the kind of the main showdown between our main character, Wyatt, is objectively our main character, and Curly Bill, I think, is the main villain, to have their final showdown end the way that it ends with a slow motion noo from Wyatt Earp, I don't know why they thought that was a great idea, but that Zach: Yeah, yeah. Ha ha ha. justin: I watching it in twenty twenty six, I had the thought, like I bet back then they thought this was cool as shit. But now it is so corny and so goofy. I just it doesn't hold up in this day and age and it's only gonna get worse as time goes on. Zach: It like there's just so much about the end that's just so unearned. Like in the the scene where Doc is in like on his deathbed and why it's like I didn't have much time to think about it with Curly Bill, but I've had a lot of time to think about it. And I'm not gonna be Ringo, am I? You know, and it's like why? What do you mean? Because he did his little gun flipping show earlier, also age the worst? Age the best though was Doc's response with the justin: Ye yeah. You yeah, you're supposed Yeah, yeah. Why ⁓ Wyatt is supposed to be this legendary lawman who everybody is terrified of. They're sh they're absolutely scared of him. And he says he can't beat Ringo, why? Yeah, I Zach: With the cup. I have no idea. I nothing in the narrative said, Yeah, you sh you this guy is a b bad guy, you know, he's like I don't get it. justin: Yeah. It just doesn't it it doesn't make any sense. It felt like somebody came to their senses a a little too late and was like, We need more Doc because Doc is what's gonna make this movie. Yeah. Zach: It's almost like that scene was added. Yeah. Just like added. Like they're like, ⁓ we need one more scene to kinda s you know get some stakes for this final showdown because we didn't set this guy up to be the villain, the you know, the main villain for the entire movie. justin: Yeah. Yeah. So let's let's get more Doc in here. Like and we'll have Doc come and do the final showdown with him. It just doesn't make sense. But yes, file it under H the Worst, the entire back half of the ending of this movie. Zach: Yeah. I had ⁓ the dialogue, just cliche so much cliche stuff in there. Just it's just it's not character motivated a lot of it isn't character motivated, just they're just saying stuff to say stuff and do stuff and move to the next plot point. ⁓ like it says like when the especially the romance stuff between ⁓ Wyatt Earp and Josephine justin: Yeah. It's really bad. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: There's like one point she's like, Well, I'm trying to be good but it's so boring and I'm like, ⁓ my god, this is just rough to watch. justin: It's kind of shocking to hear that the dude that wrote this also wrote the mummy. 'Cause the the mummy is pitch perfect. It's Zach: I know, right? But it kinda it kinda sounds like he was like pushed out of the movie and like everyone was like following through playing clean up and chopping the movie up, rewriting dialogue, you know, Kurt Russell's directing. justin: Mm, yeah. Yeah. Did you read the part with ⁓ what they said about Billybob Thornton, his character? It completely imp yeah, like be a bully, and they didn't give him any lines, he had to improv it all. maybe that's how some of these s like these scenes worked out. I mean, 'cause some of the some of the dialogue is exceptionally bad in certain p places. Zach: Yeah, that his character like all of his lines were like they just said be mean or whatever. Yeah. The ⁓ the I had another one I had the when the brothers are like gonna be shot and there's all the lightning and there's the lightning in the doorways. I'm like, these are not good lightning effects. justin: Mm. Zach: Just looks like someone's flashing a light on outside. It's not you know, like lightning lights up the whole room. And y all you see is like the doorway, like someone's like took their flashlight and was like, Woo you know. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach: I was like, okay. And then ⁓ Doc said at the I think I mean it's true, but it's just like ugh gross. Doc was like, Well, when he's dying and he's talking about his first love and it's like his fifteen year old first cousin I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know how old he was, didn't say how old he was, so maybe he was young too, but like still first cousin Doc. Come on, man. justin: ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ I didn't even catch that. But I I don't know. I don't you I'm not Mr. Subtitles, so it probably went over my head. Zach: And then the last one I had in Age the Worst was ⁓ the second kind of US Marshall crew that he has. Like No idea who any of them are. No character development, no time spent with any of them, why they're even there, like, other than because maybe historically he had a second crew that he did it with. But the whole second crew thing is just justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: No development, just go and that's just kinda leads into what your age of the worst was, right? Just last third of the movie murder montage. No. justin: Yeah. And it's all just like filler and yeah, they just plop these dudes in there that no backstory, we don't know who they are. I think I mean we knew who w w his name, ⁓ Rooker, 'cause he like but he he leaves the Cowboys to come help Wyatt, but yeah. Zach: Yeah, Michael Rooker. I think all three of them are in that scene there, but like okay. Like, if you need us, we'll be there. He's like, Alright, crew, let's do it. Like, ⁓ shit, we forgot about these guys. Alright, put them in there or go go quick. justin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just doesn't make it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Yeah. Zach: Any other age the worst for you? justin: No. I'm just gonna lump it all into the the whole back half of the movie. Zach: All right, fair enough. Okay, let's get some WTF in going. justin: Mm-hmm. Hmm. I actually had a few, only from the beginning, because I think I probably just tuned out at certain parts and I don't do subtitles. Wyatt at the very beginning, when they get off the train in town, Wyatt's wife Maddie gets a bottle of Laudanum. I'd never heard of Laudanum. I think that's how you pronounce it. ⁓ it's opium, but she kept saying laudanum. So that was new. Zach: There you go. I'm a big Laudanum fan, so I knew about it immediately. I've been d ⁓ man, you know. Yeah, yeah. Have to schedule these podcasts in advance so I can sober up a little bit, you know, so justin: Yeah, you got a case. Got a case in your ⁓ garage fridge. Zach: I had the they kept referring to his tuberculosis as a lunger justin: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Zach: I did not know at first like use skinny lunger and I'm like, Lunger? What the hell is that? Also aids the worst. Tuberculosis. We've cured it. It's not a problem anymore. justin: Yeah. Ooh, yeah. Yeah. Doc had to go down like a little bitch. Zach: The old T T B death, you know. It's a rough one. justin: That's th that's a good one that's a good call out. 'Cause I was wondering there for a while, like why I thought they were calling him longer. I'm like, why are they saying why does Ringo keep saying longer? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: Yeah, it's lung, like lunger, I think. Yeah, yeah. They kept calling ⁓ like the neighborhood bur like a ⁓ like a bulge. justin: Hm. Zach: said, you know, like they said, hot damn this this b ⁓ bulge is jumping or the bulge on the dub like you like they like it kept calling things bulges. I'm not quite sure what they're talking about. justin: Yeah. Yeah, that's weird. I I had down the exchange between Wyatt and Billybob Thornton. I don't even know if his character has a name, but ⁓ Billybob tells Wyatt, for a man that runs heels, you're kinda reckless. I've never heard that. A man that runs heels. And then I don't know. I I don't know what that means. R a man that runs heels. But Zach: Does that mean he's like yellow or like you turn heel or like he's kind of yeah. justin: Also kind of impressive if Billy Bob didn't have that as like a scripted line and he just improved that. but and then Wyatt tells Billy Bob to skin his pistol. Skin it. That was a I'd never heard that either. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. No, there's there was a lot of like old western y ones. I'm like, some slang. Like a wrap on the breezer. I don't know. There's all kinds of ones. I was like, I don't they're just doing old west western things. But you know what? The di like when they put the the the like the western slang in there, it does feel more authentic. Cause I feel like today's audience or today's producers would be like afraid to do that too much. Where I felt like they kind of owned it a little bit. There's a lot of other weak points about the dialogue. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: But they definitely owned the terminology of the time, I felt like. Yeah. Alright, let's get the let's get to sequels. We'll bust through this. There's I I I justin: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Zach: It's a true story, you know, like w I guess she could go on wide herbs adventures. I don't really care. W th I think f you know, unless do you have one? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I there's nothing I was gonna say like some of the other movies that we've done in the past, I would say let's have a prequel and find out why why it became so legendary and why everybody is terrified of Wyatt Earp. 'Cause it his story's over. There's nothing to tell after the the Zach: See. Yeah, see I I we'll get to it when we rate whether this would be a classic, but I do not think this story, this person is like untouchable for like another version. Like I almost don't really want to see a sequel. What I would like to see, what I would think you know, in the same vein of kind of like a Chernobyl or like ⁓ From the Earth to the Moon or ⁓ justin: Mm. Zach: Band of Brothers, like an HPO, like six part, eight part mini series that really, really explores this narrative in this time period. Really well crafted, you know, kind of HPO mini series, right? Like like those ones I just mentioned. Like I think that's what I want to see. Like, let's go back, retell the story, bring in new actors, bring in the whole new crew, like let's redo this again. We've seen it twice already, and I think both times this is okay. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: So let's try I think we can do it again. And I think spending more time with it, not making it a movie to your point, right? Like Okay Corral should be a climax of some story, even if it's halfway through the story, mid season or whatever, right? Like it wants to be a climax of a story. So I think miniseries is my pitch for a sequel. Do a new one, remake miniseries. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I this is off topic, but if you have ever watched Godless on Netflix, it is a Western mini-series. I mean it's I don't know. It's a it's a Western, so you have similar godless. It it has ⁓ Jeff Daniels. Jeff Daniels plays the villain and he is phenomenal. Zach: What what's it called? Okay. justin: He's really good. I can't remember who plays Roy Good, the main like hero. ⁓ but anyway, if you've never seen Godless, go watch it. It's phenomenal. I know there's tons of like modern Western shows out there, but that one comes to mind. Yeah. That one comes to mind. Nice, Westworld. because it feels very authentic. It feels like a really good Western, good versus bad guy type ordeal. Zach: Yeah, like Westworld, you know. justin: And I feel like something like this, yeah, absolutely. There I think there is clearly enough story to tell between the Earp Brothers and the Clantons and the shootout and all the things that you could just stretch it out to fit everything in there across six, eight, ten episodes, whatever. Zach: Yeah, like I didn't really get anything of the Cowboys and their story and why they're the way they are and who they are and all that stuff, right? I just got like silly villainous guy, you know, like So I d I think there's just so much more that can be explored with the story. Yeah, I agree. Alright. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Just mm. Yeah, yeah. Zach: Let's do it. Hot takes, nitpicks. Let's go. This movie is very lot of holes in it, so let's do it. justin: God. Yeah. ⁓ Alright, well we've got okay, we've got several ⁓ that we've already touched on, right? So like I Clanton, they let him live like three times, right? ⁓ Morgan gets shot playing pool when c that is not the time to be playing pool. Some of the all right, here's I've got two that we we didn't we kinda touched on but we haven't really dived deep into. ⁓ you hit on this, I can't remember what point you were making, but I think you were talking about how ⁓ they tried to keep everything in, but as a result they either shortened things or it's like they didn't film scenes, they just had it had certain things explained over ⁓ exposition. but okay, so after Curly Bill gets arrested and he's standing trial for murdering the town sheriff, we learn through Wyatt telling his brothers over a game of pool that Curly Bill was acquitted due due to there being no witnesses. That's it. That's the only way that we learn that Curly Bill got let out. I didn't even hear Wyatt say this. After the OK Corral shootout, Curly Bill just pops up out of nowhere. He's been gone from that moment up until the OK Corral shootout. He pops up, I was like, where the hell did he come from? I had no idea that he got let out because he was acquitted of charges. So I had to go online and look it up. Like, how did how did he escape or whatever? ⁓ but that whole That's my point though, is like that whole plot point. The main villain who was behind bars was let out and we learn that through just throwaway dialogue that if you just happen to check out for two seconds, you miss it. ⁓ it felt like it it should have been a scene that we should have seen it and saw that he got acquitted of his charges, but there you go. Zach: Plus Well and like there wasn't a witness. The only witness that they're gonna try to f I'm like there was a whole the whole he was out there for eight minutes shooting things. People, you know, no one's looking outside through a window or anything. Like maybe they're just scared of him, but I'm like, No witnesses? Okay. justin: Ha ha Yeah. Yeah. It just I don't know. Yeah, it the whole thing it felt half assed. It felt yeah. Zach: Yeah. But again, like in a miniseries, I feel like you could actually have that trial, right? Or whatever, right? Show the in the the reason why, if it really did go down that way in history, why it did go down that way, you know, kind of thing. justin: Yeah. Or like you could if you wanted to feed into, you know, the cowboys are like bad guys, like you can show them intimidating witnesses or, you know, like threatening people. Don't you come to you know, like you could have done something with it, ⁓ to to help better tell that story, but yeah, just learning about it from throwaway dialogue while they're playing pool. Like yeah. Zach: Exactly. Hundred percent agree. Yep. ⁓ okay. Tob tuberculosis is like extremely contagious, right? Okay. I just feel like he's kissing women, he's a little cavalier with his tuberculosis, I feel like. justin: Yes. Yeah. He's I'm pretty sure he gets blood on certain things in other people. ⁓ they just go about their day. Zach: Like I'm like his girlfriend slash you know, lady of the night friend or whatever her situation is. Like she's got some T V going on, right? She's like dying like six months after he does eventually. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. The T V was toned down for this movie, for sure. Zach: For sure. Alright, what's your next one? justin: ⁓ so you you touched on the the love triangle, but let's let's dig deeper into it because it was god, I hated it. All right, so it really is. I I I truly hated it. Because all right, we have the we have Wyatt, Maddie, his wife, and Josie. But like how we as an audience are supposed to feel about it. More importantly, Zach: So unnecessary. justin: protecting Wyatt as our hero is driven by the fact that Maddie is painted to be a very difficult person from the get-go. She's addicted to opium, she's distant, she's kind of a turd. Like Wyatt is seen to be putting in the effort. He cares about her and she just like, ⁓ meh, get away from me, Wyatt, whatever. It feels like such a cop out. ⁓ like there's no real stakes and at at risk in regards to you know is Wyatt gonna leave his wife to to go be with Josie, this other person who, you know, he fell in love with at first sight. I just wish that I don't know, going back to trying to s stay historically accurate Wyatt was married to this lady Maddie. It was a common law marriage, whatever. But I wish in this movie he could have just been single or something, because this love triangle, it just didn't it was so weak. Maddie sucked so bad. Zach: Well and like you you can't Yeah, and well and he can't be even though he's like maybe an emotional like a cheater, right? But he can't be a cheater because he's our main character. He's the hero and this the movie does not wanna put any fault on him. So they're like, Well, we gotta string that love interest along, make it interesting, but we're not gonna have him act on it until it's okay to act on. So he's just gonna be like justin: Mm-hmm. He's a hero. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: And we're gonna make his wife as terrible as possible so we can be like, ⁓ well it's justifiable, it's justifiable, it's okay. They're so afraid of it, right? justin: Yeah. The entire movie The entire movie you don't feel bad that Wyatt is, you know, having a loose affair with this other woman 'cause his wife sucks. Yeah, yeah. But the worst part Zach: An emotional affair, I would say, yeah, right. Yeah. justin: You like you were talking about with the narration is they double down on it. At the end, the outro, they say that Maddie died of a drug overdose shortly after she left Tombstone. So of course Wyatt had no choice. He had to go with Josie. Zach: Yeah, no. Well that that was the thing for me, like when he gets at the end with Josie, so he goes like on his like murder spree, and then he's like, Alright, nothing gets me more Randy for the rest of my life than a murder spree. So he goes to get directly to Josephine, and I'm like, Wait. What happened to Maddie? He just she goes off with his brother and he's like, Alright, well that was that. And I'm like justin: Yeah. Yeah. When when I heard when I heard the ⁓ the outro narration about how Josie died of a or ⁓ Maddie died of a drug overdose, I think I audibly said, Of course. Of course she did. Yeah. Zach: Well and it was like an but it was like an afterthought. They're like, ⁓ well ⁓ wait they like cut the whole movie together, it's edited, and they're like, ⁓ shit, we didn't say that like Maddie's dead. What 'cause he just goes with her. He's like, Well, I'm not gonna go back to her, you know. That's but I've been gone murdering for too long, you know? I'm gonna go, you know, to the actress lady 'cause, you know my buddy on his deathbed told me to and then justin: Yeah. Yeah. It felt like Yeah Yeah. Yeah. It felt like this was one aspect. Like if you're trying to be historically accurate, just leave the love triangle out of it. And don't don't pursue it. 'Cause it I don't know. The way that they set it up, it just ⁓ Zach: They're ⁓ shit, we forgot to actually say something about it. ⁓ and she's dead, so it's fine. It's fine, fine, fine, guys. No one feels weird. She's dead. It's just unnecessary to the narrative. It's like it's like the classic Hollywood thing of like put a love story in there. It's gotta have one. And you're like does it? 'Cause I think it's more about like lawlessness and protecting the town than it is about like googly eyes at the the mass shootout scene at the okay corral. Like I I still get it. justin: Yeah. Yeah. but those are my two. ⁓ but definitely the love triangle was just ⁓ I hated it. Not not for me. Zach: Okay, so Josephine and Billy Zane show up with this acting troupe to put on performances. Again, the n the movie does not do a great job at conveying time. So I have no idea how long they've been at Tombstone, but like they're setting up businesses, they're being successful, they're getting to know everyone. Like I feel like there's time that passes. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: This acting troop is just hanging around. justin: Yeah. Hanging around hanging around in one spot. Zach: They're just like there now? They're just like we're the local acting troop that's just always here now. I mean I maybe that was a thing. I just feel like they would have been you know they were traveling, right? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, I yeah, that's a great point. 'Cause I you brought it up earlier, but there's yeah, there clearly is a lot of time that passes, but we get no no mention of anything time related. Zach: I mean they're in Arizona so you can't even use really the weather to justify it, right? Even though Arizona can get cold, and especially if you're like up in the highlands of Arizona. But like the movie doesn't do anything to sell that. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm mm. No, not at all. Zach: One of my biggest gripes about this movie where like White Earp walks into the town, he stands in one spot, outside of some random saloon, the mayor comes up to him, the sheriff comes up to him, the bad guys come up to him, the girl gets out of the the the you know, the acting troop caravan right next to him. It's like everything that happens in this town, like happens. Happens where he is standing. He's not going to places. It's like he's sitting at his house. The parade of of the cowboys who were just murdered at the OK Corral or shot at the LK Corral or they're doing their funeral procession. It's right next to his house. It's like wherever he is is where the stuff is happening. And it's like the rest of the town doesn't exist unless it's around him. And it really bugged me throughout the whole movie. It's like it's like almost like justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: It's like a video game, like you walk in the room and all of a sudden the characters start talking at the important part of their narrative. And we're like you're standing there and everyone's walking like everything happens in your path. And it just really bugged me like the whole time I'm like, This guy can't get away from being the main character of the movie, right? Like the the world just feels like it's revolves around him. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that was a maybe that was a byproduct of Kurt Russell supposedly directing this movie on the on the low. Zach: Yeah, I don't know, just or just like, you know, I don't know, it's like he just walks into town. You want a job, you know? ⁓ we need a sheriff, you're a white herp, we all know you because we have drawings of you or something Like I don't know. justin: Yeah. Yeah. You're exactly right. Like that first day that they come into town, ⁓ he he pretty mu everybody just gets down on hands and knees for him and they just come right up to him. Yeah. Zach: They're come everyone's just coming up to him, up to him, up to him, up to him. And then it's like, you know, he becomes the sheriff. Everyone's coming up to him, up to him, up to him, up to him, right? It's like something bad happens, he's there. You know, like it's just if something that's important for the narrative happens, he's there, right? It's just I don't know, it's a lot. ⁓ I I touched on this earlier. I just felt like they kept adding more cowboys to the size of the group. It's like by the time it gets to the end of the movie's like 150 of them running around or whatever. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: And then they're shooting them and then you feel like you killed thirty, but they're still there like in big quantities. And then all of a sudden it's like Ringo dies and they're all gone. I don't know. justin: Yeah. They disband. Yeah. Zach: I don't know. And then yeah, my last one was like what happened to his wife? I mean, we figured out like three minutes later, but it's like they forgot to mention it. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it's so 'cause you clearly see her riding away with like the caravan that Virgil is in. And so I yeah, that was my thought is like did they did they just call it quits and she rides off and they go their separate ways, but yeah, they really double down on it at the end there. She like with her death. That was kinda ooh. Zach: Yeah, I don't know. But I was just like the movie does not s tell you what happens until after the fact. You're like I feel like you missed like justin: Yeah. That definitely was the yeah, like be Zach: Couldn't get a you couldn't give him a letter like while he's like, you know, resting between shoot murdering the the cowboys. justin: Yeah. They should have ⁓ or I think that definitely was a case of when that narrator came in to record his lines, somebody slipped him a post-it note saying, like, s we forgot this, say this. Zach: Maybe in real life Wyder didn't know if his wife died died or not and he was like, Whatever you know. justin: I mean, maybe he didn't. ⁓ he he probably kept in contact with his brother. But clearly he was off doing his own thing. He was hunting down bad guys. He didn't care. He was cool. Zach: Yeah. Alright man. Let's close it out. Should this be a classic? I think we've sold it, right? We we're we're both convinced, right? justin: Yeah. hard no. Absolutely not. It is not a classic. Zach: I think this movie wasn't bad. Like we've been dogging on it. It was fine. It was very watchable. But I think it's the worst movie we've watched so far. justin: Mm. It's it's pretty bad. I will say this though, ⁓ f if you have not seen it, I think it is absolutely worth watching for Val Kilmer Kilmer. Zach: Yeah, yeah. justin: And if you don't want to watch the whole movie, just watch like a YouTube highlights or something, just to get his scenes. Cause he is by far the best aspect of this movie. And he is so enjoyable. Like any time that he was in a scene, I actually got excited because I couldn't wait to hear what what Doc had to say. but as a whole, nah. Zach: Honestly, the Kevin the Kevin in my opinion, the Kevin Cosm. justin: I need to watch that one now 'cause I need to yeah. Zach: Yeah, it's good. I think it's good. I mean, I haven't watched it in a long, long time. Like I this is my probably third time, maybe see third or fourth time seeing this movie. But I've only ever like really watched it like back in the days before streaming when it was like on T BS and it was, you know you know, you pick it up and it's already like one third of the way through the movie and my dad is like, ⁓ this is a good movie and you're like, Okay, dad, we're we got nothing else to watch and justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: In the background making, you know, a snack and then leaving, coming back in, you know, kind of thing. Like, I'd rather go play video games or something. You know? That's like my experience watching this movie. So it's like the first time I like sat down very intentionally and like sat through the whole thing. It was okay. And that's honestly my experience with the Kevin Costner movie too. So I'm like, I say it's good, but I remember it being good, but I don't you know. Maybe it's not. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's there's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I no, I agree. There are things there are things that are entertaining and enjoyable about this movie, but I think by by far and large the best part is Al Kelmer is Doc Holliday. Zach: Yeah, yeah. What's your favorite western? justin: ⁓ god, that's tough. I really like Three Tendayuma. Yeah, Three Tenda Yuma's badass. ⁓ you know what I really liked? I can't I feel like you and I watched this like after we got out of college, but ⁓ it had Michael Fassbender in it, Slow West. Like it it was a different type of Western. ⁓ it was almost like more art house, ⁓ I felt. But Zach: I was saying we watched that together, I think. Yeah, that was a good one. Slow West. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's depressing as shit. justin: Yes. ⁓ but I actually I didn't mind it. I thought it was f for what it was. ⁓ but I don't know, man. Three ten to Yuma's so good. I Zach: That's good. Yeah, three ten to Yuma. True Grit with the remake. I have never seen the ⁓ but the remake with Jeff Bridges and ⁓ Haley Steinfeld is really good too. I was like I'm trying to think like an old Western that I actually like really like. I know we have the good, bad, and the ugly on our list. So we'll get there to an old western. I think we need I think do we have like McClintock? It's like we have, I'm pretty sure, a ⁓ what's his what's his face? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like there's Yeah. Zach: Why am I drawing a blank? Cla ⁓ I already we already talked about him. ⁓ John Wayne. Yeah, I think we have a John Wayne on our list, so justin: Mm, yeah. I will say, outside of movies, I think my favorite Western anything over like the last ten ish plus years, godless on Netflix. Absolutely loved it. It's really good. No. No. Unfortunately not. Zach: Okay, good, I'll have to watch it. Back to the Future three, that it That's probably my most experience with the West in movies. justin: Yeah. but yeah, I feel like I don't know. Westerns are they're such an interesting genre. And I feel like we have gotten a lot of really good westerns, but yeah, I'll be curious to see I'm always curious to see ⁓ you know, like what comes down the pipeline 'cause you know, westerns are a timeless genre that I feel like there's always gonna be stuff, but we absolutely miss the heyday, the the golden age of westerns. Zach: No no, for sure. The fifth the sixties and fifties were like Yeah, the Western was the thing. And it is funny now 'cause they had so many of ⁓ and you just like they're not ⁓ cracking most people's top ten lists, they're not or even top fifty lists, like I think i I think it'll be similar to like ⁓ superhero movies in like thirty years where it's like there's a lot of ⁓ I don't know. Some of them are fine. justin: Yeah. Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah. Like I know our kids are gonna come up to us like, How did you guys watch all of all of these superhero movies are the exact same? And we're gonna be like, Yeah, they kinda were Just like our dads with their Western. But yeah, I don't know. I I'll yeah, I I feel like there's like you said earlier, Westerns are not for everybody. Like I know you don't particularly enjoy them, but Zach: Ha ha ha ha. I'm not attracted to them, but I've when I watch a good one it's good, right? Yeah. justin: Yeah. No, that's that's fair. I like I feel like I don't enjoy desert and that comprises a lot of Western imagery. ⁓ like I I yeah, I don't know. It's a very interesting thing, but there's just something fun about shootouts and lawlessness and it's very interesting subject material. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I really like and this is like classic Boomer this is my Boomer Dad influence right on me. But ⁓ is I like ⁓ Dances with Wolves. I think that one's a really fun one. I know it's got like problems, but I I do like that movie a lot. justin: Mm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, Kevin Costner, I feel like he's Kevin's great. Zach: Did you watch that n his new his most recent one? We're like talk there's a our rate of classic. Yeah, this movie's fine, I don't wanna talk about it anymore. justin: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yes I did. That was supposed to be was it supposed to be a trilogy? Yeah. You wanna talk about meandering. Holy moly. Did you watch it? Man. Zach: Horizons or something, American horizon or something. Yeah. No. I was like I was gonna wait to see if it was good. Like I I'll give a Kevin Costner Western Epic a chance. He's good at him but justin: You I that whole movie feels like nobody had the courage to say, Hey Kevin, this is a little much. That's what it feels like. It feels like Kevin tried to put everything that he wanted in it and nobody told him to stop. Which I think clearly is why we never got the sequel or sequ I think it was supposed to be three movies, right? Or was it just two? Zach: Ha ha ha. Yeah, I think he filmed the two too. It's like it's it's on he's got it on a reel somewhere. justin: Mm. It's insane. Yeah, it w I don't know. I had high hopes for it because it I remember seeing the trailers and stuff for it, but it ⁓ yeah, it was not not good. Yeah. Snooze fest. Zach: Not it. Alright, man. Well, ⁓ so for us, Tombstone, not a classic. It's a fine movie if you want to go check it out. Doc Holiday, Val Kilmer performance. It's good. So for that reason alone. Alright, well, thank you guys for listening. If you wanna check us out, we have a YouTube channel. It's at Popcorn and Pal's Pod. ⁓ justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: We have the show goes up there, there's some shorts that go up there. You know, all the subscribing, liking, all that stuff helps us grow. ⁓ not that it really matters for us, we're not getting paid to do this anyway. So whatever. But you know, it's it makes us feel good. It's like it's it's it's moral support for us. It means that people are at least like, you know, like, yeah, you're all right. So appreciate it. ⁓ if you wanna ⁓ email us, we do have an email. It's popcorn and pals at gmail dot com. You can tell us, you know. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ Zach: How annoying we are. I have a cold this week a little bit, so I'm kinda like sniffly, so you can say like how annoying that was. You know, please let me know. ⁓ or you know, make movie recommendations. I think we're always looking for something interesting to watch and ⁓ so feel free to make a movie recommendation. ⁓ but yeah, so anyways, guys, thank you for listening and ⁓ keep popping that popcorn.