Latest / Speak In Flow / Uncover Strategies for Deep Listening and Discover Why This Can Up Level Your Leadership Skills With Marni Heinz

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Uncover Strategies for Deep Listening and Discover Why This Can Up Level Your Leadership Skills With Marni Heinz · Speak In Flow

0:02
Melinda Lee: Hello, welcome to the speak in flow podcast. I am
0:07
so excited to be here today to introduce our amazing speaker
0:11
expert, Marni Heinz. Marnie Heinz is an executive leadership
0:17
coach, she has so much experience over 20 years of
0:21
experience in technology. And she's worked at small little
0:25
companies such as Salesforce, Disney, Sony, and so I brought
0:30
the best of the best. And I'm so glad you're here, Marnie. Can
0:33
you share more about your expertise and some of your
0:35
experience with the audience?
0:37
Marni Heinz: Yeah, thank you. And thank you for having me. You
0:40
already did a great job interviewing me. So yeah,
0:43
executive leadership coach, also an expert in enterprise software
0:47
sales. So not that long ago, I left Salesforce was back in
0:52
October, I have 2022, where I spent 12 years in enterprise
0:56
sales space and in a leadership role, as well as individual
1:00
contributor roles covering some of the companies that you
1:02
mentioned, Disney, Sony gap, wide range of companies. And
1:07
yeah, so I got my enterprise sales kind of chops through
1:10
Salesforce and the training there. And then prior to that, I
1:13
have a whole other 10 year career in IT, where like most
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recently leading Google I was an IT leader there covering
1:21
applications for the legal department, have some
1:24
experience, a big five consulting, and then also buried
1:27
and all of that history, I also was in a Ph. D. programme and
1:30
communication, something that people don't always know about
1:33
me. But in my 20s, I decided to venture out into academia, and
1:37
go explore that path. And so I also have some training in that
1:40
as well.
1:42
Melinda Lee: And what lights you up about executive coaching?
1:45
What was what makes you passionate about it?
1:49
Marni Heinz: I I'd say it's kind of funny, because now that you
1:51
bring it up in that way, I would say my superpower and my
1:55
strength is deep listening skills. So I have the ability to
1:59
listen and hear and understand beyond maybe the words that
2:01
someone is saying, it's actually the reason that I went into
2:04
sales. So when I was in it on at Google, I was seeing like
2:09
software vendors coming in and speaking, but maybe not always,
2:13
they were more pitching than they were listening. And that
2:15
didn't always land for me. And I didn't always feel like oh,
2:18
we're on the same page solving the same problem. And or they
2:21
really understand where I'm coming from. And so I said, Hi,
2:24
I have this deep listening skills, how could I take them
2:27
and turn that into something like in the sales profession as
2:30
a differentiator for myself, so it was the reason I went into
2:32
sales, I tend to get bored easily. So after 12 years in the
2:36
sales profession, I was really itching to move one into
2:39
leadership, but also coaching and mentorship and taking this
2:43
deep listening skills into a space where I could really help
2:46
people in a one on one capacity and potentially in like a group
2:49
coaching capacity. So it's that that natural strength or
2:52
aptitude that I had to really hear beyond maybe what someone
2:55
is saying on the surface that I wanted to kind of take to the
2:59
next level into coaching.
3:01
Melinda Lee: And we're so lucky to have this opportunity to say
3:04
because you have all this experience you curated from
3:07
these large organisations. And now today you're going to talk
3:10
about it, we're going to talk about what you learned in sales
3:14
and deep listening. And so what does make deep listening
3:17
important? Like you said, there's moments where you felt
3:20
like you were not heard people were pitching, and but what,
3:24
like, go a little bit deeper about what makes this skill so
3:27
important for people nowadays.
3:30
Marni Heinz: Yeah, I would say nowadays, Well, nowadays,
3:32
especially with, you know, AI and so much emphasis on
3:36
technology, and rapid fire communication, and more of like
3:39
a transactional way of engaging with people, I feel like deep
3:42
listening is now more important than ever, because at the end of
3:45
the day, a lot of big decisions are not simply based on factual
3:51
information. But the place in which those decisions are made.
3:54
It's in the Olympic part of the brain. It's where emotion is
3:57
stored, memories are stored. So we all think that we're making
4:00
decisions based on these really logical, you know, practical
4:04
sort of decision making skills. And there's this emotional
4:07
component that goes along with it. When you look at the
4:09
communication perspective of it, about 7% of our communication is
4:14
actually based on the content of what we say, and 93% Roughly,
4:19
and I know there's different studies on this, the numbers can
4:21
vary, but a high percentage of our communication is actually
4:24
based on nonverbal cues. That can include things like the pace
4:29
of your voice, the tone of your voice, it includes facial
4:33
expressions, if you could include hand gestures or the
4:36
posture in which someone is standing or sitting. There's so
4:40
much more that goes along and what someone is communicating in
4:45
terms of if you are if you are the one communicating and then
4:48
listening to someone else really paying attention to what the
4:51
other party is doing and how they're responding. And if you
4:54
see a disconnect in the words that they're saying, and maybe
4:58
their body language or tone of voice face, that's an indicator
5:01
that maybe it's time to pause and really better understand
5:04
where that person is coming from. And whether it's in
5:07
business or in, you know, in our personal interactions, it's
5:11
helpful to really get on the same page with the other person
5:14
to get to a desired outcome that's mutually agreeable for
5:16
both parties.
5:17
Melinda Lee:
6:20
Unknown:
6:21
Marni Heinz:
6:26
Melinda Lee:
6:35
Marni Heinz:
6:53
Melinda Lee:
7:09
Marni Heinz:
7:16
Melinda Lee: I hear a lot of people getting the training that
7:18
they need to listen deeply to look for those language cues to
7:22
stop if you're seeing someone withdrawal. At the same time, I
7:25
think it's really difficult for people to do that. The it's like
7:29
they know how to do it. But then they don't know how or they
7:31
don't, they don't end up doing it. What is it? Yeah,
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Marni Heinz: yeah, I noticed the same. So for a lot of people,
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what I would say is that the way in which we our natural tendency
7:42
is to process information is based on our own personal mental
7:45
map. So you might hear a word or phrase mentioned, and what
7:50
you're naturally going to do is all happens at the subconscious
7:52
level, is your brain is going to process that phrase based on
7:56
your own personal understanding of that term. So I can even
8:00
given that example for myself recently, at a woman sharing
8:02
with me, she was having challenges with some job
8:05
interviews and are landing in executive sales role at larger
8:10
enterprise companies. And she kept using the term matrix
8:12
organisation and I was like, I finally had to tell her every
8:16
time you say this term matrix organisation, I go backwards in
8:20
time to my PhD days when I actually did like a presentation
8:24
on the topic of matrix organisation. So when you say
8:27
that word, the way I interpret it is PhD academia 20 years ago,
8:32
communicate organisational communication, but I know that's
8:34
not what you intend. So it's this way, we naturally interpret
8:39
things ourselves based on how we understand and make sense of the
8:42
world. And the reality is for someone else that meaning making
8:46
happens in possibly a completely different way. So it's important
8:50
to check in with others to say, hey, what I'm hearing is this, I
8:53
know you're saying this, can you share what you mean by that? And
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it could be a lot even simpler than that. But when you start to
9:00
notice a little bit of dissonance going on with
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yourself and trying to understand or you hear
9:04
something, you go, Oh, that's I could interpret that two to
9:06
three different ways. And you're not sure which one just pause
9:11
and say, Hey, can you share more about what you mean by x y&z?
9:15
Melinda Lee: Mm hmm. What do you think are the components of deep
9:18
listening? Because I hear that you're saying it's being aware
9:21
of ourselves, when we're listening? What are the cues
9:24
that we're getting? Are we listening for a certain? How do
9:28
we interpret the meaning if it's clear if it's not, and so if
9:31
it's not, then then ask every paraphrase mirror or say it back
9:36
to the person to ensure you are listening deeply. And and so
9:41
what are those key components that you think are pertinent to
9:46
deep listening?
9:48
Marni Heinz: Yeah, I would say there's at least a couple. So
9:50
one would be if a person is saying one thing and then the
9:54
facial expressions or gestures or tone of voice indicate a
9:58
different thing. communication or message, that's an indicator
10:03
that it's important to pause and check in. Or evaluate if your
10:08
understanding is accurate and where they're really coming
10:11
from. I found this highly useful actually in the role that I was
10:15
in in sales and enterprise sales when you're in a tough
10:17
negotiation. The other party if you're like, hey, offering up
10:21
all these different deal structures, trying to a little
10:24
bit guess at what are the levers that are most important to them,
10:26
knowing they're not going to probably lay out all the cards
10:29
for you up front, you might say, Hey, we're willing to give you
10:31
instead of like a, you know, a five year term, a three year
10:35
term, if you get like almost a zero reaction from them, or kind
10:39
of like, they'll say, Yeah, sure, that's great. Or no, I
10:43
don't care. Like they, no matter what they say, if the tone is
10:46
kind of low, or they kind of move on to the next topic, it's
10:49
not the thing that's most important to them. So you now
10:51
have that information that you can make use of going forward.
10:57
So there's going to be a dissonance or disconnect in a
11:00
maybe a yes or no response. But the like, you might get a yes.
11:04
But then what you're actually sensing is a no in either tone
11:07
of voice or facial expressions. And that can occur with just
11:11
about anything. And then another is your own internal barometer i
11:15
That's the one I use quite a bit for myself is if someone is
11:19
sharing something, and I notice the that I am having trouble
11:25
understanding what they're saying. And I can come up with
11:27
the two to three different interpretations. That's an
11:30
indicator for me that it's a moment to pause. And so it's
11:35
it's a combination of your own internal barometer of just
11:38
pausing long enough to say, Do I understand what this person is
11:40
saying. And if you can come up with more than one response or
11:44
scenario, probably worth checking in, and then also
11:47
checking in with the facial expressions, maybe not being
11:51
congruent with what someone's saying, the final thing I might
11:53
share is like what I what I would do as a solution engineer,
11:56
actually, I would actually, like interview someone for 30 minutes
12:01
on what were their requirements in 30 minutes time, you've
12:04
possibly if you're doing a good job at Deep Listening builds up
12:07
enough report that in the last 1/3 of the conversation, they're
12:11
going to feel comfortable enough, sharing with you some
12:15
emotional balance of things that are important to them. And it
12:18
might not be in the words they're saying, but their tone
12:22
might like perk up, they might get really excited. They might
12:25
be like, oh, yeah, that you know, like there's a, the
12:28
inflection of tone or voice can be an indicator that that's the
12:32
pause moment to go back and check in and gather more
12:35
information. So I think it's also just really being in tune
12:38
with what someone's saying, and how tone pace of voice change at
12:43
key moments in time.
12:45
Melinda Lee: And then pausing and then noticing what's
12:47
happening within ourselves and assessing the situation, what is
12:50
happening with me, what is the best thing to say, to help
12:53
understand and get a better perspective of where they're at?
12:57
Because what they're saying might not be congruent with what
13:00
their reactions are. So it's kind of a dynamic between the
13:05
external and the internal.
13:08
Marni Heinz: For both parties, and sometimes it's okay,
13:10
depending on the situation to, I would say even name what you're
13:13
experiencing. Yeah, coordinate your noticing. So you might even
13:16
tell another person Hey, I noticed that you perked up or
13:19
that your your voice kind of like started to go up? Or you
13:22
start to speak faster at this one moment? Can you share what's
13:25
what's going on there? Like, you know, just share more about that
13:29
experience? And that giving the person the opportunity to share
13:34
rather than you jumping to a conclusion about what's going on
13:37
for the other person?
13:41
Melinda Lee: What are the concerns that people have with
13:44
calling out and seeing some of these things? Hey, I noticed you
13:47
perked up, or I noticed that you went through? What do you
13:51
Marni Heinz: Yeah, I would say, it's so funny that you're
13:54
mentioning it because I'm like, well, in the coach training,
13:56
I've gone through training as a coach, it just becomes more
14:00
natural, because you're going through repetitions of practice
14:04
of naming on someone's behalf in service of them as well as the
14:07
relationship. But I would say that, that for people that
14:10
aren't familiar with doing this skill or practising this skill,
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it can feel quite vulnerable. Yeah. To ask someone to share
14:19
more in a moment that might feel sensitive or vulnerable. So
14:23
which I would just call out and name that's actually a very
14:27
normal experience to have, and to get to a different place with
14:31
that experience. It's practice and then also being self aware
14:35
of is that appropriate in that moment, given the context, if
14:40
it's a one on one conversation, there might be more room for
14:42
flexibility. If it's in a group meeting situation, maybe not. So
14:46
being contextually aware of, you know, the level of
14:49
appropriateness of of where to drill in and where to hold back.
14:53
Melinda Lee: How much of it are we bringing something like you
14:56
said, some experiences the subconscious moment Because the
15:01
drain quite a bit is it quite a bit? It's not a lot like how
15:10
much do you think? Is it?
15:12
Marni Heinz: Yeah, I would say so I didn't mention this in my
15:15
intro but I also have a master's certification in neuro
15:21
linguistic programming, which is the study of what's happening at
15:24
the subconscious level in terms of meaning making, we are always
15:29
doing our meaning making at the subconscious level, like we it's
15:33
not something that we can almost help or change it just is
15:37
naturally happening. So that could be beliefs, sensory level
15:41
experiences, memories, it's all kind of the filter through which
15:45
we make sense of the world. And so that's where the pausing
15:49
actually becomes important.
15:51
Melinda Lee: Right? And the pausing and also because when
15:56
we're noticing the other person we're listening to the other
15:58
person will also bring your own meaning into it. And then so
16:03
that's why the pausing helps us to differentiate between Is it
16:07
me, is it my own judgement, my own valuation? What I think
16:11
about this or is it am I really listening to the other person?
16:15
Or am I new even brought up
16:17
Marni Heinz: another consideration which I didn't
16:19
even necessarily name but it's there's also all of the like,
16:24
cultural considerations, our background or upbringing and so
16:28
that also is an additional layer on Yeah, I'm doing like a
16:33
training, or it's more of a volunteer programme, through an
16:37
organisation called calm clarity. On in the woman who
16:40
does that teaching her name is as way she comes from Vietnam.
16:44
She shares that like from her upbringing of coming over from
16:47
Vietnam, you know, for her parents, chicken feet are like
16:50
the best thing ever. You'd love chicken
16:55
Melinda Lee: sauce and soy sauce with the chicken
16:59
Marni Heinz: soup as either chicken feed I'm like,
17:01
Absolutely not. And she isn't same reaction, but it's just a
17:04
variation in experience for the same exact thing that we have.
17:09
And then also comes from, like a cultural upbringing.
17:12
Melinda Lee: I can imagine going into imagine for me going into a
17:16
situation maybe a masculine leader, and I'm a feminine I
17:21
brought it been brought up with being the women being more
17:24
submissive. And so how much of that is my cultural upbringing
17:28
that I already go into the situation? Just listening and
17:32
not really wanting to say too much?
17:34
Marni Heinz: Right? Yeah, that gets factored in, as well as
17:37
part of our social norms on Yeah, I do. Some facilitation
17:42
for a programme called I Am remarkable. And that comes up a
17:44
fair amount. So there's also considerations around gender,
17:46
what are the social norms and or upbringings that we come from,
17:50
that tend towards women potentially not speaking at
17:53
mismatch, or being a bit more passive or more moving in the
17:56
direction of a direction of active listening, but maybe not
17:59
speaking up? When it's an appropriate moment for our
18:02
voices to be heard of knowing those signals? And cues? Yeah,
18:06
Melinda Lee: so what do you recommend for me, because this
18:08
is so ingrained in us, this is subconscious, it's cultural,
18:11
it's like, we're not gonna When? When would you recommend for
18:16
someone, if it's so deep, such as, obviously work with you?
18:20
Right? There's nothing else that you could recommend. For us?
18:26
Marni Heinz: Yeah, I would say there's at least a couple of
18:28
things, I'm really big on intention setting. So I always
18:31
believed that the first starting point from which to have a new
18:35
and or different experience or develop a particular behaviour
18:39
is to have the intention to develop that skill, skill and or
18:42
change that behaviour. So you want to develop in the deep
18:46
listening area and or kind of overcome some of those social
18:49
norms that we were just talking about, let's say,
18:52
hypothetically, you're going into a meeting at work. And so
18:56
you could always set the intention to say in this
18:58
meeting, I'm going to practice two skills active listening, and
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speaking up at an you know, editor moment in time where it
19:07
makes sense for my voice to be heard. And I'll do that at least
19:10
two times, or, you know, you can set an intention for yourself
19:13
before you go into an interaction. And then there's so
19:16
the practising something that's not natural for you. And so
19:21
there are ways that you can get into the repetition of, I mean,
19:24
it could be as simple as what I just described, hey, in the act
19:27
of listening, of like a one on one that you're dealing with
19:30
someone whether you're a leader or you are an individual
19:32
contributor with a you know, with with a leader, I'm going to
19:36
practice act as an active listening in this particular one
19:39
on one. And what that means for me is, anytime I don't
19:43
understand what the other person is saying, I'm going to pause
19:47
and ask for clarification. So if you walk into a meeting or
19:50
interaction setting the intention, you could even then
19:54
sometimes our brains can process information better or learn more
19:57
if we break things down, actually physically, so you
19:59
could even leave meaning giving yourself five minutes to write
20:01
down the things that you noticed that were maybe in from a deep
20:06
listening standpoint dissonant, or from what the person said
20:09
versus the facial expression. So you start to get into the habit
20:12
and build the skill in the muscle,
20:14
Melinda Lee: starting to be more aware, having the intention to,
20:17
to do it, and then starting to be more aware of exactly where
20:20
you're at. And have you done it or have you not and supporting
20:23
yourself to making it habit? Yeah,
20:27
Marni Heinz: you can also do that, as I'm sharing now, too. I
20:30
mean, in a work context, obviously, everything is there's
20:34
an interpersonal dynamic to it. And or even in a group context,
20:37
it's the the meaning making isn't just by you alone, there's
20:42
always another party involved within the outcome being
20:45
decision making, or you know, behaviour, a wide range of
20:49
things. So asking others for feedback, if this is something
20:52
that you're intentionally working on, whether that's a
20:54
leader, your peers, etc, say, you know, hey, this is something
20:59
I'm going to work on over the next week or two, I would love
21:01
to get your feedback, if you notice any changes between now
21:04
and this time, when I'm personally, you know, planning
21:07
to work on this. Mm hmm.
21:09
Melinda Lee: What about those leaders that want to say they,
21:14
they're there, they're there with the people. And there's a,
21:18
they ask for the feedback, and then they listen, but they
21:20
really don't listen, or they want to move on. Because we're
21:25
in this world where we do want to listen, but we also have a
21:27
lot of things to get done.
21:30
So what about what are some strategies for those leaders?
21:34
That I think they have, they want to strike that balance? I
21:38
don't know if they really want to, but because they have all
21:40
these other things going on? Yeah, it's, I
21:43
Marni Heinz: would say it's, there's an art to it for sure.
21:47
The most simple thing that I've noticed is the the practice of
21:50
naming. Uh huh. Um, so let's say, you know, like, something
21:55
comes up in a team meeting. And the last, it's a 30 minute team
21:59
meeting, the last five minutes is when the really juicy stuff
22:02
comes up from some team members. I completely like, now we're out
22:06
of time. Now. Yes, I mean, that those things happen. So you name
22:10
and acknowledge it, notice it, and then also share, and given
22:16
that we don't have much time left remaining, you know, here's
22:19
the focus for what we accomplished today, I do want to
22:22
make sure we cover this topic. And then as a leader, you could
22:25
choose to cover it, you know, for a bit of time in a one on in
22:28
a one on one or multiple one on ones, or is dedicating a portion
22:33
of the next meeting to that topic. So I think it's important
22:36
if something's important enough to others, and that's the deep
22:39
listening part is kind of tuning into how important is that thing
22:42
that just got brought up, to name it, acknowledge it, and
22:46
then you and then you also, as a leader, have to hold yourself
22:49
accountable, because that's important to build trust. So if
22:52
you say you're going to acknowledge it, and bring it up
22:55
again later and address it again later, then following through
22:58
with your action and your behaviours is important as well.
23:02
Melinda Lee: I agree, what do you think are the key challenges
23:05
that people have with that, as leaders of the the naming and
23:10
then bringing people listening in general?
23:13
Marni Heinz: Yeah, um, I'll be honest, I want to this is me
23:17
coming from the sales profession. We're in the sales
23:21
profession. They don't it's not a lot of there's not a lot of
23:23
attention. This is very well known on going from individual
23:26
contributor into leader in that particular profession. I, when I
23:30
decided to move into leadership at Salesforce, I interviewed
23:33
about 16 leaders. And I asked them, I specifically hand
23:37
selected people that had gone from individual contributor to
23:39
then first or second line level leader. And I just said, Hey,
23:42
what were some of your biggest learnings? What do you now know
23:45
that you would wish wish you had known then, the number one thing
23:48
that people shared was to show empathy. So what they learned
23:52
was, they were they were kind of taking a command and control
23:55
leadership style with their team, which wasn't resulting in
23:58
the behaviour and or performance that they were wanting to see.
24:01
So they really had to develop a new skill set, which is really
24:06
getting to know someone on a one on one level, they brought that
24:08
up as now they've realised they have to get to know each
24:10
individual seller on an individual personal level,
24:14
understand what their motivations are, and adjust
24:17
their leadership and management style to each individual person.
24:20
So what I would say the biggest challenges is that they don't
24:23
actually get training in that you're put into a role to
24:28
actually exhibit these other qualities and skills that are
24:31
required lacks a certain
24:32
Melinda Lee: level, right? And then, yeah, right, and then
24:36
Marni Heinz: developing those skills. And part of it is that
24:39
you know, more training and or attention given to the
24:42
interpersonal skills, the softer skills that are required to be a
24:45
great leader, because being a great individual contributor,
24:48
whether that's in sales, or could even be like in software
24:50
engineering, you're really good at coding. Great. Guess what? To
24:53
be a great leader. It's more than being really good at the
24:56
technical skills. It's a different skill set. So putting
24:59
it tense Knowing that in the movement and the shift from
25:02
individual contributor to leader, and then getting the
25:05
practice the accountability coaching can be helpful because
25:09
behaviour change actually takes time. There's research that
25:13
shows practising a skill over and over again for about three
25:16
weeks is enough time for it to start to become more ingrained
25:20
at the subconscious level. So you don't have to think about it
25:22
anymore. So that practice is so important.
25:25
Melinda Lee: So there's hope for us, there is hope. There is hope
25:30
for us even when it's a subconscious behaviour, there is
25:33
hope. Because we were aware, you're listening on a podcast
25:37
now that you're aware, you have the power to make a decision,
25:41
that an intention, whether this is something that you want to
25:44
improve something you want to dig deeper in, if you're not
25:47
getting the results that you are getting from your team, then it
25:50
could be because you're not, you know, maybe leaning in to deep
25:53
listening, having more empathy with your team members. Find
25:59
that out for yourself, right? What do you think is the
26:02
difference between empathy and deep listening? There?
26:05
Marni Heinz: It's so funny that you're bringing this up, because
26:07
I'm like, they're so interrelated. No, I actually,
26:11
strongly believe like, there's like empathy and trust are kind
26:16
of almost like, you want to show up with both empathy and to then
26:21
develop, if you show up with empathy, then you're naturally
26:24
going to be having the intention to really want to understand the
26:28
other person and step into their shoes. So you want to start with
26:32
from the place of being curious about the other person coming
26:35
from a place of empathy, which then can then spark the deep
26:39
listening skills, and make them more available to you as a
26:42
leader, which then the next thing that happens is you
26:46
develop trust and reciprocity. So it's kind of this it's this
26:50
cycle that kind of builds upon itself, that then ends up
26:53
resulting in higher performance. You become a stronger leader,
26:57
you build a trusting team. Retention is another thing that
27:01
will end up likely happening and or people might even want to
27:05
work for you you become the leader that people want to
27:09
associate themselves with. Mm hmm.
27:12
Melinda Lee: And how do if people are struggling? I know
27:15
that a lot of people are struggling with deep listening
27:17
or needing to uplevel as a leader, an Executive leader, how
27:22
would they get in contact with you? Or what are some things
27:25
that you have going on? In your practice?
27:28
Marni Heinz: Yeah, so I, there's really two ways, the easiest way
27:31
to find me is just to go to LinkedIn. So just find me on
27:34
LinkedIn, Marnie Hines, and at the top of my LinkedIn profile,
27:39
there's a way to actually schedule time with me. So I'm
27:42
happy to set up time and do like a 30 minute Strategy Session. My
27:46
website is also listed on my LinkedIn profile. And coming up
27:51
within the next three to six months, I'll be probably putting
27:53
more attention on like a focus coaching programme. For leaders,
27:57
I still have it available. Now I work with people for anywhere
27:59
from three to six months at a time. And even ongoing after
28:03
that, should there be interest.
28:06
Melinda Lee: And you got Marnie here, as a coach, I would be a
28:09
jump right at it, because you've coached so many people and so
28:13
many big companies, and now you're available to the world.
28:16
And, and I can sense right, your deep listening for others and
28:19
your deep empathy for others. And that's how you see people.
28:22
And that's how you help them to rise. And so we're so lucky to
28:25
have you out here. And thank you so much for sharing, this is not
28:30
getting the nuggets and the valuable information. And before
28:33
we end the podcast, I want to ask you one question, they asked
28:38
everyone, what is the key ingredient to unleashing our
28:43
leadership voice?
28:45
Marni Heinz: Oh, we already talked about some of them. Yeah,
28:50
I would say, Yeah, empathy. I mean, I just brought it up as
28:55
being the number one thing that was shared with me that then,
28:59
you know, trust, I think is also important. And then being self
29:03
aware. All of those are also qualities that are tied into the
29:07
deep listening skills that we just talked about, and results
29:10
in highperformance.
29:11
Melinda Lee: Right, as a leader to elevate these are the key
29:15
ingredients, because we were probably trained to do doo doo
29:18
and to get the results and to probably not have as much time
29:22
to listen to people and to develop that sense of empathy
29:25
for others. It's counterintuitive because time is
29:30
of the essence. And so listening to others might seem like it's
29:33
just not a good use of our time. But now that we're all of us
29:37
here are elevating, as leaders, we want to be able to cultivate
29:41
these skills and we need to cultivate these skills, to have
29:44
empathy and trust and deep listening. And so I can see how
29:49
all of those are key ingredients to unleashing our leadership
29:52
voice and us as leaders. So thank you, Marty, thank you so
29:56
much for being here. I really had a good time. Each and every
30:01
one people reach out to Marnie
30:04
Unknown: thank you so much thank you