Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct - Episode 149

Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 149 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News talks it be
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Inside the Game from Every Angle. It's Rugby Direct with
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Elliott Smith powered by news talks it B.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Rugby Directs powered by Habit Health, tackling
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: all your aches and pains from sports and work. It
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: has been I think about two and a half months,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: but your favorite podcast is back in the feed. Elliott
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Smith and Liam Napier Cross News Talks, ABB and New Zealand.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Here all back for twenty twenty five on Rugby Direct.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Liam decent summer.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Was it has been Elliott, Great to see you mate,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Welcome back. Yeah, I had a good summer, lots of
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: sun and surfing, family and friends. So good to be back.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: And Rugby's Rugby's here. Isn't it a one week earlier
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: than their previous years? And cricket season can take a hike.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Cricket season is year round now that's the you know,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: everyone talked about rugby and croaching on cricket season. Cricket
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: season just goes twelve months a year. At least rugby
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: you get a little bit of a break. We've missed
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a fair bit, haven't we over the last two and
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a half months while we've been on sabbatical, getting the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: overseas wages in Japan and various things into the main account.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks to Sheba. Appreciate, appreciate that.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna come on board as a sponsor. Let's
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: go through a few of those topics now in a
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: bit of what we've missed segment to kick things off.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: First and foremost news late last week Joe Schmidt out
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: as Wallaby's coach after the Rugby Championship. Interesting that this
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: was dressed up by Rugby Australia as a slight contract extension.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: He was supposed to end or his contract ended after
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: the Lions series. Now signed on for the Rugby Championship,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: but he is going to leave after that. I guess
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: your reaction and what this means now for Rugby Australia
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: and the Wallabies.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Not a great surprise, I think when you know the
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: circumstances around Joe Schmitt and his family, his son and
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: his health challenges. He wants to be close to home
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: and prioritize his family. His intention was only ever going
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: to be to take the Wallabies through to the Lions
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: and I think we've already seen quite drastic improvements since
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: he's taken over. It's easy to forget the absolutely disastrous
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Eddie Jones era that that he came on on board
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: after look, Rugby Australia would have desperately wanted him to
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: stay because of those improvements. Because of you only have
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: to hear people like Joseph Suey Lee talk about Joe
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Schmitt and you know sue Lee has come from a
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: rugby league background and speaks so highly of Joe. So
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I think all the players involved with Echo that we
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: heard that with the All Blacks, Joe Schmitt's level of detail,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: his analysis, his feedback for players, as.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: You know, second to none.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: So Australia in an ideal will would have retained him.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: He will be a massive loss.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: It is good he's staying on post Arabia Championship and
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: it's still a big task between now and the Lions series.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I guess what do you view the Wallabies prospects as
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: it stands for that line series? It will come round fast.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: It's only in July. And can the Wallabies replace Josemitt?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it for the Wallabies they can do
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: something in this British and Irish line series because I
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: don't think that the lines are infallible. I think the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Australia is certainly capable of taking at least a Test
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: off them. Where they can get to is another matter entirely,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: but I think this Australian team is capable of getting
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: at least one match, and you look at the lines
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: in their recent history, it takes a while for them
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to come in. The Test team tends to play it's
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: one of those big tour matches at least, and then
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: into a Test match. Off the back of it, Australia's
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: got Fiji first and foremost, they'll get some cohesion there.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: A lot of the combinations will have been playing Super
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: rugby as well, so I think off the back of
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: what they did on the end of year tour, Australia
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: can head into that series with a little bit of confidence.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: You've still got it as outsiders, but I think they're
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: certainly capable of shaking things up and maybe taking a
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Test off the lines. Would be great if it was
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: one all heading into the third and final Test, and
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I would put some pressure on there. And I think
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: now that the future of joshmud has been decided, there'll
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: be a bit more clarity in camp. It won't just
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: be the unknown that's hanging over them. By then they'll
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: know who's coming in as the head coach for the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: End of View Tour and beyond through the World Cup,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: so there'll be a bit more continuity and that person
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: you would expect would probably come in for the line
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: series and perhaps we have a watching brief over them.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So I think Australia, on the basis of what we
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: saw in the last year's End of View Tour, can
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: take a little bit of confidence out of that. As
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: for the replacements for Joe Shmidt, I think you look
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: at the obvious ones, Dan mccallor from the waratahs Le's
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Kiss from the Reeds seems likely. Stephen Larkham. You know,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: maybe there's other contenders around the globe, perhaps someone like
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a Vencotta, maybe from the Blues as contracted through to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: twenty six.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Ronan o'garaz has put his hand up.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I think Leo McDonald as a potential wildcard as well.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean I guess they're our contenders there.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It's just a matter for Rugby Australia to figure out
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: where they want to go to and they'll have to
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: be careful about it because they've improved under Joe Schmidt.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: They won't want to go backwards to the dark days
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: of Eddie Jones in twenty twenty three. So that's going
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: to be fascinating to see what kind of coach they
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: land on, where the jo Schmitt will stay on in
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: an advisory role, which he sounds like he's open to
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: according to some of the reporting from our colleagues across
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: the Tasman So it's going to be interesting. Dan mchaal
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: has certainly been earmarked as a coach of the future,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: but maybe Liz Kiss just has his ear and it
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: knows in front because he has worked with josemt before
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: itd Island.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the mumblings of heard is highly likely to be
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: an Australian coach and Australians love their own. While Eddie
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Jones was a disaster, You've had a period of foreign
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: coaches and I think ideally you would have one of
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: your own, and yeah, I think from the outside looking
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: in for me, it does appear to be a two
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: horse race between mccullor and Liz Kiss, and I'll be
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: very impressed by what les Kiss has done coming back.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: He has a not a strong established relationship with Joe,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: but they have worked together in some capacity previously, so
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: that would work and goes to what you're saying before
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: about Joe potentially staying on in an over arching role
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: or an advisory role, whatever that may be. And he
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: did that with the Blues with Leam McDonald and that
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: worked brilliantly, didn't it. So I think the Wallabies will
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: be desperate to retain him in that capacity, but I
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: will be surprised if it's not an Australian coach that
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: does succeed him.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: The tricky thing about I mean, it sounds great on
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: paper Jotion staying on in an advisory rob, but that
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: can quickly become too many cooks in the kitchen. Obviously
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: he's going to be based on this side of the Tasman.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It's going to be matter for whoever the head coach
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: is to decide whether that's something they want, whether they
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: want that extra word. We sort of work well with
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks and then Jo Schmitt became came on
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: board full time in that coaching stuff. So it's going
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: to be interesting to see how that unfolds. If you're
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Joe Schmidt, obviously back in New Zealand, do you want
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to be still semi coaching Australia from Afar? Do you
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: want to stick your ow into something on this side
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: of the Tasman? Should New Zealand Rugby make an approach
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to him to get him involved in some way, whether
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it's not the All Blacks but an overarching role perhaps
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: in rugby. You know, the Crusaders for example, could use
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: them next year. Their succession plan has been blown out
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: of the waters. So yeah, if you're Joschmidt, what do
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you look to do here? Because obviously being on the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: side of the Tasman, being close to family is very
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: important to him.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: I think, like you say, it does depend on who
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: the next Wallaby's coach is. But look, he'll keep his
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: options open and there'll be no shortage of suitors for
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: his services, whether that be on the international market or domestically.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: And yeah, he is with the Blues previously, but they're
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: in a good space here. Has a tight relationship with
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Vern Cotter as well. But at the moment certainly the
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Blues don't need them, do they. They're going for back
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: to back titles and I've got a very very strong
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: coaching team. So yeah, very interesting to see where Joe
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: goes next. But I think one thing is certain and
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: that he will continue coaching in some capacity because he
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: is extremely passionate and when he does get involved, he
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: tends to be all in.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Indeed, let's move on watch the space on that topic.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Another big one from the summer, Richie Wong doesn't come home,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: won't be available for the All Blacks. As perhaps predicted
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, there was almost an expectation that
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: he was going to be back in New Zealand rugby
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: at some point this year. It got to that point
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: that it was seemed fairly obvious or fairly certain that
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: he was going to be released year early by Toshiba.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: There was going to be some working around of his
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: contract with them. He'd come back and be eligible for
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks from twenty twenty five and play for
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the Crusaders twenty six and twenty seven. That didn't happen.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So I guess if your reaction to that, because as
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: we sat here last year it seemed like that it
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: was heading to that conclusion.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very surprised, I think I said. At one point
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I put my house on it that he was coming home.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: So I'm homeless as of this year. If anyone wants
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: to take me in they would would be very eternally grateful.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: But look, it was all smoke signals. Everything pointed towards
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: that happening. Scott Robertson and Mark Robertson went up to
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Japan to try and.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Get that over.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: The line. For me had to be financial. That's the
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: only reason why they couldn't get over the line. Richie's
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: earning close to over then two million dollars a year
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: in Japan, so clearly he's on rugby weren't in a
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: position willing to bridge that gap. Maybe that he would
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: have been offered close to a million to come home.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: So it's a significant shortfall, wasn't it. But it is
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: only one year and a Ritchie really wanted that number
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: ten Jersey, if he really wanted to work with Razor,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: then he had to make that sacrifice that other New
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Zealand rugby players who are playing in New Zealand do
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: make from a financial sense. But it does change the landscape,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: doesn't it. Because if you look back to the end
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: of last year and we thought Muhoger was coming home
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: in July. He's always been raisers.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Now you're looking more longer term, aren't you. With McKenzie
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: and Barrett going head to heads. Even guys like Stephen
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Peterfetter may have been looking leaving. Harry Plummer when he
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: decided to go following the Super Rugby season. I spoke
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: to him and he said that Muhoger coming home was
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: a fact in his decision because he was that much
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: further down the pecking order. So I think everyone, including
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: you know, Harry Plummer and and these sort of guys,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: expected him to come home, so it is a major
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: surprise that he's not.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So is this a matter of New Zealand Rugby and
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Tshiba not being able to meet the asking price orr
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: New Zealand Raby? I will be able to meet Sheba's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: asking price to release him from.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: His contract or Ritchie's desired salary.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: I think yeah.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: There was all sorts of talk about maybe brokering a
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: deal with to Sheba where he would come back for
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: two years until the Ragby will cup and then maybe
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: go back to to Sheba, but that hasn't worked out.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: And the other part about that equation is.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Richie will now have what's basically a year of Test
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: rugby to get up to speed to try and stake
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: his claim for that number ten Jersey. And while he
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: has that relationship with Razor, we've seen consistently how hard
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: it is to come back. No matter what anyone says,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: who's on the payroll in Japan, it's infinitely harder to
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: come back from Japan and walk straight into Test rugby
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: than it is to go from Super rugby to Test rugby.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: It is a rung down and so he would have
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: been there for two and a half years, and I'm
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: not denying he's still a world class player, but it
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: does take time to get up to speed, to get
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: used to the pace and intensity and line speed, pressure,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: all those different elements that Test rugby brings. So it's
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: going to be much harder for him to waltz back
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: into their all Black team. And for Razor, having invested
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: in Damian McKenzie and Boden Barra and others, it's a
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: very going to be a very very difficult, delicate balancing
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: act for him.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: It is because those players, whichever way they split it,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: McKenzie and Barrett will both get tests at ten this year.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Whoever becomes the first choice. It was barred at the
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: end of last year, but both of them will get
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: game time at teen this year. It's another year under
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: their belts, it's another year playing under Scott Robinson's game
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: plan as All Blacks coach. And then Richiemong is going
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to have to come and cold, assuming it even comes
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: back next year, and that's the other thing he hasn't signed.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: He may go to Sven, might put some more money
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: on the table and go, here's another few million for
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: another three year deal. You might go, actually, I don't
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: need to come back, So we're you know, we thought
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: he would come back. Then he may not come back
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: We've seen that with guys like Charles Piedsows Stephen Latour.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Once you move abroad, the longer you're there, the more
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: comfortable you become. You're earning exceptional money, your family's settled,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: so there's lots of different factors to consider. And you
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: know who knows he could play for Tonga. Yeah, that
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: possibility is not off the table either. So you're right,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: there's no guarantees he does come home. Now, you'd suspect
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Razer will still be in his heir, He'll still want
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: them back, but who knows.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: James O'Connor, you know, might block his path of the Crusaders,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: he might have to go elsewhere.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Well, look, Riley Warhap has seen the light and gone
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: to the Canes, so there's hope for him yet.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: The king pen of your fantasy team, I believe. Also
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Sean Stephenson. This is a bubbled way with summer as well.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: He's gone to Japan for a few weeks, to Kibota,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: back for about round four in Super Rugby. Sounds like
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: you'll be going full time as of twenty twenty six,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So sort of a short term solution to a longer
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: problem for the Chiefs and Shawan Stevenson and New Zealand
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Rugby and Caboda. Look, he's been there or there about
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Shawan Stevenson. You can hardly blame him for taking it.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: But there's been whispers he's going to the NRL, he's
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: going off sure of various things. Finally does go off, sure,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and it's only for a short term deal for now.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, he's painted his colors to the wall and
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: like you say, you can't blame him. He has been
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: knocking on the door for several years and the thing
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: with Sean and I think most people are aware who
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: have followed his career or followed rugby, there's always been
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: concerns about him defensively and his ability in contact. He
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: is an exceptionally gifted athlete. He can kick, he's very
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: silky with his schools. He can create for others, he
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: can finish. He can do a lot of things. But
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: on the defensive side of the ball he has been
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: exposed at times and we saw that even in his
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Test debut. I think it was against the Wallabies in Dunedin,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: and several All Blacks coaches have held reservations. You know
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: that happened with Ian Foster regime and now with Scott Robertson.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: He was in the All Blacks fifteen but never really
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: elevated beyond that. So New Zealand Ragby were clearly reluctant,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: unwilling to let him walk out of his contract with
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: So they when the name of the squad's, you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it's different to perhaps if he come to them in
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: September of last year he might have been the chance
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: of getting a release.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: So they've broken a deal where he goes he comes
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: back for the Super season and then he'll go back
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: to Japan and you know what, He's served the Chiefs
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: really well. He's been a multi All Black. You wish
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: him well and by all means mate Bank, because your
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: career is infinite. But unfortunately he is in one of,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: if not the most congested areas.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Traditionally in the New Zealand game.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: You know, New Zealand traditionally produces wings every single season,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: fullbacks the same. It's very hard to get a look
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: in there, and if you've got slight deficiencies in your game,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: then that can hurt you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Indeed, let's move on to some other news that happened
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: over summer. I think we touched on it at the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: end of last year. TJ Penina and the All Blacks
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: hocker in Churin. It's now emerged, according to reporting in
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: the New Zealand Herald, that took members of the All
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Blacks by surprise, the message that TJ Peninara sceend. Obviously,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: TJ is now playing in Japan full time. But you
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: look at that story and go just doesn't feel right though. Yes,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the whole way it's sort of played out from both
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: a media perspective and also an All Black perspective. Does it
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: your take on this.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Ye, it wasn't surprised that there were divisions.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I think if you go back to the Hurricanes poa Hucker,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: I don't think in any if you got thirty if
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: you walk down the street and got thirty people together,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: they're not going to share the same political views. And
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: that extends to sport, and so it's very hard for
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: someone to take soul authority of that and say we're
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: all on the same page, we're sending this message. Personally,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: I support the message, but that doesn't mean that all
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: the Barrett brothers do or Damian McKenzie does. And if
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: you think back to the photos that were posted postmatch,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: it was very clear that some people were on board
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: with that and some people weren't.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: And so that's that's come to.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Lights and I think it could have been handled better.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: But the only way you probably could have avoided it
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: was leaving TJ Pedinara out of that test and his
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: final test for the All Blacks. That would have been
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: a massive call, but it was a big issue. It
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: sparked a lot of division and I think if TJ
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: went back again, he would probably do it again because
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: he's very passionate about that issue, but people will have
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of differing, varying views on whether he was
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: right to do that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: How do you see that?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. And now on the head.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: When you gather thirty odd people into a room or
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: a team or whatever it is, they're not going to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: share the same beliefs. And when you do something like
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a hucker, Yes, TJ was the leader of the hacker,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: and he's the public face of the hucker and has
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: been of this particular hucker, but it's seen as an
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: All Blacks hucker. You're representing your teammates, the other twenty
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: two players that are standing alongside you delivering the hucker,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: regardless of whether it's your message at the front. And
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: it was explained to me that, yes, TJ's done the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: message itself. That's his here, that's his message at the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: top of the hacker, and the rest is the team hucker.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't always come across that way. And when
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: it seems like it's gone under the radar a little
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: bit and hasn't been presented as to the true nature
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: of the message that the All Blacks were expecting because
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it was sold as a unity and then the message
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: about whit's sung. I think the all Blacks players do
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: have a right perhaps to be a little bit upset
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: if that was the message, because you're standing there, there's
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: twenty two people, twenty three people as essentially co signing
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: this message, and if you don't agree with it, regardless
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: of your political beliefs, I think that you've been misrepresented.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: So I can completely understand why it has caused some consternation.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And you know, maybe TJ could have done this and
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: put this messagecross in a different way. It wouldn't it have
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: been as high profile as doing it in a hucker
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: in this final Test match. There are other avenues, and
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe you saw this way as the biggest
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: way to create some waves, some interest, because certainly it
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: managed to do that.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the only other I guess I'd just draw another
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: analogy in that if if we're going to go down
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: this line, then keep all politicians away from sport, you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: because everyone's not going to want the acting Prime minister
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: in the changing rooms getting smamy and imposing for political clout.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: So that anytime there's a political issue, it's it's highly charged.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: So personally, I'd like to see them keep keep keep distanced.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Politicians often use sports to leverage their their profile and
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: those sorts of things, and that makes me square them
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: a lot, So that that sort of thing makes makes
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: me feel uncomfortable, but it's very common in the modern worlds.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: And looking back at this instant, there were telltale signs,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: weren't there. The All Blacks on social media didn't share
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: t J Perrena's message. That actually cut that out of
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: their of their of their vision on social media. So
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: it was clear at the time, even with those who
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: posted in the photos and those who didn't, that maybe
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: everyone wasn't on the same page. So yeah, I think
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: if Scott Robinson and the All Blacks had their time again,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: maybe they'll do it differently. But it is a very
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: delicate situation to handle indeed.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: So let's move on to some rugby. The Six Nations
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: underway two rounds down a fellow week this week, so
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: we break in the Six Nations, but you'll read on
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: what we've seen so far. Liam the cream has risen
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: to the top a little bit, but some surprises along
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the way, England beating France and a cracking game at
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Twickenham over the weekend so I thought it was excellent.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Island's been very good the opening couple of weeks whiles
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: have been shit house you'll read on the first couple
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: of weeks.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess apart from Ireland, it's a very even tournament,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: isn't it. And I would argue maybe not of a
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: gold standard. I think that England France tests very dramatic, captivating,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: but not necessarily of the highest quality. I think we're
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: seeing that France to a degree have an element of
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: being home track bullies. They're not as good away from
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: home and you could see that in DuPont's performance. Maybe
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: they don't have the same level of care or passion
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: and maybe there's a bit of resentment from my side
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: about the team, the second string team they're going to
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: send out here in July, and just their attitude I
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: think to playing away from home, something that if they
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: want to be considered the world's best rugby nation, they
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: need to address. Ireland hold the mantle. They did a
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: number on Scotland. I think that was a very convincing
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: performance away from home Atale continue to improve And the
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: point I'd make about Wales is from my side, at
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: least there's no glee in their struggles. Fourteen losses in
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: a row. They're at their lowest EBB. This is a
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: very passionate historic rugby nation and they are on their
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: knees and it's very sad to see.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: It is sad to see.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: I can't see them turning it around here.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: No, that's the thing that's not like a different coach
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: is going to absently be able to waiver wand because
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: they thought that Warren Gatton was going to do. And
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: when you look at Wayne Pivock's results when he got
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: sent packing, they actually compare not too bad. The fact
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: is that they've had this generation for quite some time
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that were very very good and could contend with the
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: wilds Besus, Wynne Jones, Warburton retired a bit longer than
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the other's Dan Lydiott, Fellatad's still going number of couple of
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: good tens, bigger and all these players that were very
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: very good, seems like those coming into a place and
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: just haven't got the same quality. And whether that's down
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: to a provincial level in Wales not providing the talent
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the pathways through, I think there's some issues there. Without
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: knowing the intricacies too much of the Welsh domestic game,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: but that certainly seems to be reading some of the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: articles where some of the issues lie. There are some
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: promising players there, you know, Aaron Wayne Wright's a good
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: player of mine. A couple of others Jack Morgan are
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: very very good. But if you're far between, they don't
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: look like world beaters. And it's not like a coach
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: is not getting the message through. I just don't think
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: the players, whether it's Warren Gatland to whoever, is going
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to be able to turn the ship around anytime soon.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the systematic issues and wells and the domestic game,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: and that the financial state of the game, which is
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: prevalent throughout the international rugby worlds. I know we're going
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: to touch on Warren lately but later, but I do
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: think it was a massive mistake to bring him back.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: You're looking at a previous generation, like you say, in
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: terms of the players, you're looking at him with rose
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: into glasses. There were clear signs that rugby had pat
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: moved on. He struggled when he came back to New Zealand,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and it was seen as a very easy, quick fit solution.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: You hide someone on reputation alone, and that's really blowing
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: up in their face now.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: It certainly is and it's hard to see where the
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: next one comes from. I don't see them getting another
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: winning the Six Nations barring a massive upset. Maybe you know,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: they play Ireland and someone gets red carded full red card,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: you know, something like that, they play fifteen on fourteen,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: maybe they can get a win that way. But you're
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: looking for things like that because they just do not
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: have the quality to match any of the other teams
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: in the Six Nations. They were, to be honest, well
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: beaten by Adelie. It was only the late couple of
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: schools that got them even close to the Italians that
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: are well beaten. Their attacking structure is poor. That's where
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I think Warren Gatland does have some issues because their
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: structure on the park is poor. Attacking selection and attack yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: as it just looks labored, there's nothing much to it.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And again Warren ball, the game's moved on from that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: and that's where I think maybe new coach can ad something,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: but they're not going to turn things around overnight.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: And the tough thing now is it's seen as a
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: poison chalice. If you heard Rodan O'Gara talk, he was like,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: no thanks, and that would be the attitude of a
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: number of quality and coaches around the world. You are
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: staking the reputation and you've got an expectant rugby public
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: to come in and turn things around immediately.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: So it's not a desired position. So where do you
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: turn to?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Very good question. We will take a break here on
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Rugby Direct. Comeback with our Super Rugby preview the Final four.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Jack Measley here the Super Rugby CEO to join us
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: as well as Rugby Direct continues with Habit Health.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Every try try ten sixty second, every tackle, put back
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the tackles, get up again. Take you before I'm not
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct. You're back with Rugby Direct powered by
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Habit Health. Let's get stuck into a bit of a
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Super Rugby preview. We are days out from the opening
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: game of the season Crusaders and Hurricanes February fourteen. It
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: all gets underway. You can hear all the New Zealand
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: franchise games on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. Ligam Super Regular
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: rolls around again. I guess there's always a bit of
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: intrigue at the start of the season with some offseason
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: signings and everything like that. But to me, as is customary,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I suppose the defending champions go in his favorites. You
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: look at the Blues, they'll be hard to beat again
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: and hard to go past the scheme of things.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think this season does hold more intrigue
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: than others because we've had the demise of the Rebels
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: and I think that will change the landscape in Australia.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: You've seen the Wara Tars in particular pickup of a
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: host of former Melbourne players Rob Leota and they've got
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Sue Lee and a number of others. I think Taniela
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Tupo Yep and Dan mccallor is a big in for
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: them as coach side. Expect the war Tars to improve
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: and the competitiveness across the world maybe with the exception
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: of the Force to lift in Australia, I expect more
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Ona Pacifica to be better. With Ardie Severe probably the
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: biggest transfer in Super rigby history. They've got a better
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: coaching team, they've got a stable base. But the wider
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: New Zealand landscape does look to be the Blues title
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: to lose. They've got a pretty stable squad, stable coaching team,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Van Cotter's back, and then you had two time Player
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: of the Year Boden Barrett and the mix Man. They
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: are stacked from a playmaking perspective, Harry Plummer, Stephen Peter Fetter,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Boden Barrett's You've got Zen Sullivan there as well. You
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: look at at the back line, Ricoewanni, Caleb Clark, Mark.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: Talah, a j Lamb.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: But it was the four pack that did it for
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: the Blues last year, you know, so it is hard
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: to go past the Blues. I think Wallace a TC
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: is a massive loss for the Chiefs. They were well
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: beaten and last year's final, but were had a late
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: season run. The Canes were a surprise package last year
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: top the table. Nobody saw that coming with no Adie
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Severe and a new coach and Clark laid Law.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Can they back it up?
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: And the Crusaders they were an absolute calamity. Surely they
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: can't be that bad again. They've got will Jordan back,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Cody Taylor will be back, Scott Barrett should play a
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: lot more to Mighty Williams. I think I went through
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: They've got something like thirteen all blacks in that team,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: so there's really no excuses for them not to be better.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: What's your broad expectations.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, look, I think it is hard to go past
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: the Blues again because, as you say, you add in
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Bowden Barrett. The question is how they juggle all of
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: that and how they keep everyone happy with the amount
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of game time. Who plays Where does Boden Barrett play ten?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Do you move them to fifteen? Harry Plumber, Steven Peter Fetter?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: How do you balance all of that? Because yet it's
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: all very well having great depth, and that's what the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: best sides in super rugby are being built on. You
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: look at the Crusaders and that dynasty they formed in
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: other teams, the Chiefs and the twenty tens as well
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: built it on depth. But you've also got to have
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: the players in the right positions on the park and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: those key starting positions to get things right, and that
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: can be an issue where things fall down if players
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: are expecting more game time than they actually get. So
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I think the Blues head in his favorites are really
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: like look at them, They've lost a key to Jouannie,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: but they do have players like Anton Segna, Cameron Sawa
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: four who are next in line and ready to step up.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: They had taste of game time in recent seasons Adrian.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: Houston's Doulton Publi So yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, any number of players there, you know, I think
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it's hard to go past the kind of quality and
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: the depth that they've built there. The Chiefs I grew
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Wallace a TD being up for them is a big blow.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I'm interested to see how Clayton McMillan balances things as well.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Damien McKenzie wants time at teen obviously, Josh Jacob it
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: looks like a real up and comer. Do they give
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: him game time at ten and move McKenzie back to
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: fifteen Tenny Naneaea tutro Is there are thereabouts, but they're
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: going to lose Shawan Stevenson for at least the first
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: four weeks, so how do they balance that. That's the
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: interesting thing for me. Moving down the country that the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Hurricanes know Jordi Barrett at Leinster Ardie's gone. That's a
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: big loss for them, so it's hard to know exactly
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: what to get from the Hurricanes. No Brick Cameron, so
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: they lost a bit at ten this year as well.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Doing Flanders has suffered a broken league.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: So there's been so many injuries, and I think part
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: of that's down to the encouragement to be to disclose
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: these injuries, which is positive from a public point of view.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: I think everyone should be informed.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: But there has been some big casualties throughout well at
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: the back end of last year which weren't disclosed I
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: think by the All Blacks.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Guys like Reuben Love.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Sadari's now out for the season.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, yeah, but guys like I suffer our
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: moor Wallace a tit. We weren't aware they were injured
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: for the All Blacks, So what actually happened and why
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: did they? Did they play against Italy and then, like
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: you say, Sam Dowry throughout the preseason, so I think
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: you're always going to get that to start the year.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: The Crusader's lost a couple of props as well, so
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: interesting to see how that shakes down. One of the
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: big questions I think for teams like the Hurricanes and
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: the Crews. One of the big overarching themes I think
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: from in his Geller perspective, as so many of the
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: playmakers are congested in the Upper North Island with the
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Chiefs and Blues, so the Hurricanes are probably going to
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: start the season with Harry Godfrey. The Crusaders are what
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Taha Kima or James O'Connor. The Highlands have got camp
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: probably going to invest heavily in Cam Miller. So there's
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: a real disparity in class there and how much of
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: affect that does that play?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a big time. You look at
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the Super Rugby champions throughout the years and you need
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: a quality ten to steer you to the title. Pretty
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: much can't get by. But you might have some other
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: superstars on the team, but if you're lacking at ten,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: you just can't get the job done. And no doubt
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: the Crusaders have been scratching around. Maybe they thought that
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: m longer'll be back next year. Now they've got to
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: look elsewhere and go, you know, as Taha Kima a
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: guy for another season after this. Rivers Rayhan is injured
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: for a bit of the season and James O'Connor's there.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: The Hurricanes obviously Britt Cameron injured, Callum Harkins come into
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the squad. They've got a lot of questions around that.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Rubin Love might play a bit of ten, but he's
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: not back until March, so he expects. So yeah, I
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: think this has been a problem in sub rugby before that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: A lot of the talent has been congested in one
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: position in one team. The Crusaders for years had a
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: lot of playmakers, and then you know, Colin Slade goes
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: south to the Highlanders for a bit, other you know,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: other changes as well. But you've got to have a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: quality ten and if you don't have it, the job
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: becomes very very hard. So immediately you look at the
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Blues and the Chiefs with all black quality tens and
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: go they're automatically a step ahead. You mentioned the Holland
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: is there as well. Hard to know what to expect
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: from them under Jamie Joseph this year. A lot of
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: young players, a lot of academy players that are now
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: coming through. Fabian Holland had a bit of a taste
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: of the all Blacks environment. Didn't get on the park,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you know, Timothy, Timothy taaa why very impressive last year
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I thought for the Highlanders O captain this show captain
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: this year. If you rent a player of immense super
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: rugby experience, but again very young team and hard to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: know where they are going to pick up the wins,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: especially against New Zealand teams this year.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one thing you do know, and what I have heard,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: is that Jamie Joseph hasn't changed. Some of the trainings
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: have been notoriously ruthless, so they will be fits. Their
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: forward pack will be uncompromising with I think it's a
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: good move Clark Deermody going back into that capacity, but
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: they really do need to quickly unearth some of that
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: rising talent, don't They find a few nuggets of gold,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: hang on to them, promote them, invest in them, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: that's what they've been trying to do.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: But they face an up fill battle.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: They do. I spoke to Sean Withy last week and
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: he reckoned they could do some surprise some teams this
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: year and certainly they're capable of doing that. But you know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: guy only get you so far in Super Rugby. You've
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: got to be consistent and you might pick up a
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: win here or there, but you've got to be ultra
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: consistent across the course of the seas and I think
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: it might be perhaps a year or two too early
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: for some of those young players at the Highlanders.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: From a neutual perspective, Super Rugby needs those surprises that
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: they need Australia to come in and rock the Blues
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs at home to turn the competition on it here,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: they need the Fijian Jura to win. Away from home,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: they need the Landers to pull off a few shock
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: upsets to spark that interest. If it's just goes to
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: scripts as we expect, the Chiefs and Blues playing another
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: title decider, it's not ho' harm. You and I are
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: still going to be engaged and interested, but it's not
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: going to attract the casual fans. So it needs to
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: be competitive. We need upsets, we need surprises. You need
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: teams like the Highlanders, Wina Pacifica, the Waratahs, whoever it
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: is to really you know, turn the tables spark some
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: interests because otherwise, but it's gonna be tough like that
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Blues team is pretty much international quality it is.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Let's dig a little into Moreida Pacifica Artie Savia going there,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned a touch earlier, the biggest transfer in
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Super rugby history that they've pulled off there. How much
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: will that instantly improve them? And what can they expect
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: in terms of results this year? They've had some tweaks
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: to some other positions, but buying large ARTI is the
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: big magnet that has comeing to their team. He's going
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: to captain them this year. How much of an instant
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: influence can be on one PACIFICA And do they become playoff.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Cordy No, I don't think they've become playoff quality, but
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: that's very much their aspiration.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: It very much should be.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: I think Ardia is without doubt one of the most
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: inspirational figures, particularly from a Pacificer perspective, and he will
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: he will bring people with him. I think it's worth
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: noting that he is probably not going to be in
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: that team next year because he has a sabbatical option
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: that will mitigate his influence. But from this year at
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: least he will come in. He we've all heard that
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: he's lifted standards and expectations across the entire team. He's
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: been anointed captain. As he said, his style of rugby.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: We'll bring people with him, but it's not going to
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: be enough. I don't think to bring Moana into the playoffs.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: But one other point to note is I think they've
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: got something like fourteen new recruits and they have improved
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: their coaching team. They brought in celelem up Asuur who
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: was coaching Samoa, and they've got Tom Coventry and Tana
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: Umager and that's infinitely better than where they were with
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Aaron Major a few years ago. It's a lot of unrest.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: He was basically forced out by player power. They've got
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: a stable training base. They still don't have a home
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: as such, which is challenging, but you know, they've got
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I think Jackson gunn Bash it was a good pickup
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Solomon ala Malo brought him back from the NRL, So
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: they have got some decent pickups there. It's just whether
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: they have the quality and the consistency I think to
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: back it up week after week. But I would expect
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: them to be to improve and be competitive.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is exactly what we need out of that
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: team and heading into the future of Super Rugby as well,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: because to touch on that, you know, eleven teams is
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: suboptimal for this competition. There have been questions around one
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: of Pacific's ongoing involvements in this. They've seem to have
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: been put to bed, at least for the time being,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: but there's always gonna be a question mark, especially when
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: the results on the park haven't been as good as
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: they can be, So if you look to Super Rugby's future,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: it's probably got to expand again and find a twelfth
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: team because eleven is suboptimal in terms of draw buys,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: everything like that, playoff systems. So just to be looking
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: at an overall picture, it's going to be interesting to
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: see where Super Rugby goes to in twenty twenty six,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: which is also the commencement of a new broadcast deal
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: which is to be signed on both sides of the Tasment.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it sounds like positive news out of Australia
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: that they're going to get significant uplift over there, which
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: is great news for them and great news for New
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Zella Rugby because they've effectively been subsidizing Australia to keep
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: them off their knees. With the major events that they've got coming,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Super Ragby definitely wants needs another team. Where that comes
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: from and whether it's going to improve the competition, the
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: jury is out there. As you mentioned, eleven teams and
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: the top six final system this year, and I'm going
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: to put the onus on you, how Eliott and tell
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: your wee story. So I went over to Australia the
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Gold Coast earlier this year for a boxing event. David Nacre,
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: it's fight over there, and I ran into none other
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: than Scott Robertson at the airport and neither of neither
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: he nor me could decipher this top six play a format.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: At the time was early January, so I've got a
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: bit of time to work it out. But can you
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: explain to the punters out there, and the simplest possible
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: layman's terms, how this finals format works.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: It would be my pleasure, Liam. So you have six
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: teams in the playoffs. I'm with you now, yeah, good
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: start one play six, two plays five, three plays four.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: The winners go through to the next round. So three winners,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: three winners, the highest remaining seed that lost, so that
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: it'll be either team one, two or three. Well depends
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: who lost, it could be four.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, gotcha.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: They will go through to.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: The semi finals.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Semifinals, so they get a second life. So it's not
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: the format that I would have gone with put it
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: that way, but it gives Super Rugby the most of
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: the maximum games in terms of the broadcasters, which you know,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think is the right way to go about it.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: But that's the way they've gone about it. You know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: the simplest way we to give one and two a
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: week off, three plays, six, four plays five instantly into
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the semis.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: After that, that was the point is going to make.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: There's not really enough reward. Is therefore topping the log.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: No, you get a second life if you're the losing
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: team from the first week that is the highest seed.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: But if there are upsets there, you could be gone
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: first week. And I just don't know that there's enough reward,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Especially when you're putting six of eleven teams into a
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: plaoff system. You've got to give the upper teams some
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: more award, a second chance, whatever it might be, a
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: week off, some reward there. What they've gone with is
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: giving ultimately more games to the broadcasters. And we'll see
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: how it works this year. You know, maybe we're about
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: twelve next year and we can reinstate that popular eighteen
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: plaff that you were so forgot.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, there's very much a stopgap measure. All right, I'll
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: give you. I'll give you a pass mark for that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: It's a pleasure. Is there any whispers about a twelve team?
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Are we're hearing anything?
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Not currently.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, we had whispers last year about the hagaad
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: is about. You know, there's always talk about a team
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: in the West Coast of America. There's the long term
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: desire to bring in some of the Japanese top leagues,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: but the incentive for them.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Well, Butt and Barrett mentioned that last week, didn't he
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: that I'd love to see that Japan unless you were
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: to create a multiple division competition because there's so many
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Japan japan teams, how do you peck and go to
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Shiba Toyota, Kiboda Suntory. You're coming through with us, but
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: sorry to the Panasonic Wild Nights, you're gone. Unless you
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: were to create sort of a multi division Super rugby
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: competition that included Japan. It was three divisions, you can
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: include all those teams there. I just don't see how
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: that gets off the ground.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: I think longer term that's probably where it's going to
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: get to.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: They'll have to not bow to the Japanese wishes. But
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: they hold all the cards. Yeah, and they hold all
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: the money and money talks, and you've got the World
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Club Championship to consider as well. If that still gets
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: off the ground.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I understand as it is, yeah.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's twenty twenty six, twenty eight, I think
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: for twenty eight.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's a few things to play arts, but
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: I think Japan at least has a has a Rugby identity.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: If you're going to go plunker team in the West
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: coast of the States, that's going to be a failure.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: No, And I think Boden Barrett made a good point
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: around the travel factor on tour with some of those teams,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: and you could replace some of the factor of South Africa,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the fact that a lot of the Suffragan's actually playing
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: in Japan. If you bring them in, you're playing a
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Peter Steff Bigthow, You're playing you know, Fuff the Clerk,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: all those sort of players, You're actually playing them while
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you play those Japan teams. It's a matter of how
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: it shakes down whether it could work as another matter entirely. Yeah. Yeah,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: And the Japan teams instantly become better because they've got
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: more money.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: All right, So let's get into some predictions for the
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: season of fact, let's do some tips for the weekend. First
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: and foremost, as we always do.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: Who's winning Round one, don't we?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Friday Night Crusader's Hurricanes. Well the Hurricanes has got No.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: Ten so well yeah, because the Crusaders have got international
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: quality in their ranks.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Walby's teen, Walby's teen, thank you very much.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Well Luck, I hate to break it to here, but
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: your season is going to start where it left off
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: last year.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: With a win against Mowana. I think it was last year.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: Get on the cane cane train, mate.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Cane train is not going to get out of the station.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: It is Crusaders. I'm going that way seven five and
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Rob and Rob we trust before we make a big
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: play for Joe Schmidt in twenty twenty six and beyond.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Colm Mansbridge, if you're listening, get on the blower of
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Joe right now. Wartars Highland is the star studded war
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Retars in Sydney entertaining the Highlanders.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: Well it's a tough one, isn't it? Round one?
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I am going to go the war Tars.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, am, I I think they've got too much quality.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Will start the season. Sorry, Paul Kelly with the win
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: the drawer hosting the Brumbies. I know last week at
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: the Super Rugby Lord and showed us Ateno Robert Tamanda
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: was looking forward to welcoming the Brumbies on a sweltering
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon in Fiji.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Look, I think I'm going to go the Brumbies and
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I think Glenn Jackson's the new coach of the Dura
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: this year and I think they will not be as
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: good as they have been.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: In recent years.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with Queen Jackson. I don't not knocking Glenn.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I just think it's a bit of a transition here
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: for the for the.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Seven five Saturday night. Looking forward to commentating this on
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Goldswoldn't iHeartRadio? Grand Final rematch Blues and Chiefs Eden Park.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Do the Chiefs avenge in some way their defeat at
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: the same ground last year in the final?
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: They do not, but it will be highly competitive and
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: what a way to start this season. Great to see Supergue.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: We finally get some scheduling, right, Yeah, I'm with you.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I think the Blues when that one and the Force
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: welcome on one to Pacifica to a Perth nine point
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: thirty five Saturday nights again. You can hear this song
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: called Sporting Nightheart Radio.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: You know what, I'm going to tip my line at
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: a one that it's always a tough place to win,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: but a bit of positivity, so I'll give them the
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt to start there.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I've got the fourth couple of new recruits, Darcy Sway,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: a few others.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: He's got a good reputation, that's right.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully it doesn't injure anyone.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, an interesting matchup. When he comes head to have
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: quinter Pi, he'll be.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Fireworks, could be fireworks. Right, let's get into our final four.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Big question, Liam, give me your winner of Super Rugby
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: plus the five other playoff sides.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, so Blues to win. Unfortunately, it's a bit boring
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: and predictable. Chiefs, Canes, Brumbies, Reds and maybe maybe the
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Saders sneaking there and just scraping to sixth.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Scrape into sixth. I think the Blues win it again.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I think the Chiefs made the playoffs, Crusaders make the playoffs,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: the war Tars make the playoffs.
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: You're going the Tars? Okay, Yeah, the.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Reds make the playoffs and the drumount of playoffs.
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: You left the Canes out, lift.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: The Canes out. You're no no Jordi, no TJ no
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: first five, no media managers, organizations and is Peter luck
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: to get to christ.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Great in your Billy Proctor, suffer more, Tyre Lomax, mate,
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: lose your tin.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: The list goes on.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: Harry Godfree, we trust man, We'll see and Ruben Love
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: will be back.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be a big game once they get him back.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: But I think it'll be they'll be chasing it.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: Look, you're going to regard you know, I'm not going
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: to let you forget this.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, Super Rugby m v P.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Oh well, probably if the Blues are winning, it probably
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: has to be someone from the Blues.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Because it could be an all around team performance. It
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: gets the Blues to the title. You might have someone
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: starring in a wicked team that gets all the points
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: every week. Hoskins last year, you're true. I am going
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: to go with not finily Christie cam Roygaate. Oh yeah,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: well there is another one you missed. You know, I'm
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: going to go Harry Plumber on his way out the door,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Harry Plumber. Is he going to get enough game time?
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: Well, he could play twelve.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Boden can play fullback and you know what, it'd be
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: pretty hard to go past him after what he did
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: last year. But very interesting to see how that plays out,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: isn't it.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going Joseph Sua Lee to be the super rugby
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: m VP. Cool.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: What positions is he going to play?
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Fullback?
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: It sounds like he's been training there and I would
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: like to see that. But more space to Rome. He's
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: brolling in the air. Get him evolved, get him in space. Absolutely,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: he's really on the tars yeast. This happens every year.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: The Hype train now the Sydney and they fall flat.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: The style of forward for the hype trade drinking the
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: kool well.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Last year write tipped the Chiefs drew a Fighter, which
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: did the exactly yes yes. Topic three in the final four,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: who are you Wooden Spooners.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: Going to go the force?
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: The force? Yeah?
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: Mawana no love, no love, okay?
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Topic number four. I originally wrote this last night before
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: some news reports had emerged that there's emergency Wales board
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: meeting in forty eight hours as well as rub union
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: to decide the future of Warren Gallon. The original question
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Lamb was will Warren Gatlan still be Wales coach by
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: the time the All Blacks visited in November? The new
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: question is will Warren Gatlin still be the Wales coach
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: by the time we do this podcast next week.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I think he will. But he should have been gone
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: at the back end of last year. They made a mistake.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: They it was a weak decision, but I personally don't
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: see there's a lot of upside and rushing into appointing
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: an interim What are they going to do put Rob
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Howley in there mid tournaments? They need to take time,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: have a proper recruitment process find their next coach. But look,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: it's bloody grim, isn't it. And I wouldn't blame them
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: for getting rid of them. Maybe they save themselves some
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: money by saving wait until the end of the tournament.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: I'm not too sure.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're probably hoping he resigns and perhaps
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: of feeding out some of these stories to go, Colin Warren,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: save us a bit of coin and just fall on
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: your sword. Whether that happens or not, I don't know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: but maybe an interim coach you might be able to
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: get a bit of a new coach bounce. Just for
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: the back end of this tournament. I think they've got
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Island next. When the competition returns from the break this week,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I think he's gone and we'll have an interim coach
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: in charge for the rest of the six nations and then
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: they can go and recruit. And we touched on some
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: of those contenders around the place, you know for the
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Wallabies job. Maybe some of them look to the valleys
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: and go that way. And before we go on Rugby
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Direct this week, good chance to catch up worth a
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: number of the rugby identities last week at the Super
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Rugby launch in Sydney, and also sat down with the
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: chief executive of Super Rugby Jack Missley, as he counts
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: down to his first season in charge. Let's have a listen,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Jack Missley, chief executive of Superroggy Pacific. Welcome to Rugby Direct.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks for your time, thanks for having us. How excited
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: to you your first season in charge of Super Rugby Pacific.
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm so excited.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I can't wait for it to be.
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: To kick it off on the fourteenth of February. I've
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: had six months in the role now and you know,
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: I thoroughly enjoyed my time getting to know everyone sort
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: of in the ecosystem and getting the planned down for
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: twenty five and yeah, just itchy feet now to kick
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: it off and get it going.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: No rebels obviously, the ship, which has been well documented.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Do you think there'll be a concentration of talent on
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: those Australian teams and how will that affect the overall
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: product on the park?
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's no doubt squads have been bolstered
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: and you know, we're glad we could. You know that
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: they've those players are found a home that will just
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: drive competition for place, drive standards in all those all
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: those organizations, and hopefully we see that come out on.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: The on the park. I guess everyone's got an idea
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: and everyone's got an opinion around with Super Rugby can
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: be better? How tricky is that? Balancing that and trying
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: to implement new things? And we've seen the fantasy competition
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: this year, but it feels like a competition with everyone's
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: got an idea of how it could be improved or changed.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: How do you balance that as the chief executive? Yeah, well, firstly.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: We're really lucky that people care enough to have an opinion,
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: So you know that's exciting, and you know what we've
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: got to work through is how we prioritize the things
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: that we do with the with the resources we have.
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: And so for us, that's about making sure we're listening,
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: but also going and seeking seeking information, be that fan
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: insight or be that shape of game data to work
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: through what will have the most impact and then balancing
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: that across a competition that spans across five different countries
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: and he's watched globally, and so that added complexity of
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: where to focus, you know, comes with a little bit
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: of Okay, well this might work really well in New Zealand,
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: maybe that's not an issue in Australia. So that is
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: a challenge. But we have there's a lot of low
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: hanging fruit. I think that we still have to pick
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: to make sure that we are as good as we
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: can be on field, and that you know, we have
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: all of the tools for fans to engage with the competition,
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: so there's still lots of work to do.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: One of those is Fantasy, which is launching for the
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: first time to the Super Agybander the season, something that
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: fans have cried out for for a while. How important
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: is that strategically to get that into the market and
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: have people playing that.
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's a great example of you know,
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: fans wanting different ways to engage with the competition, and
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: gamification is a really growing part of sport, so it's
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: it is really important and we can't wait for fans
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: to to start playing. We also want that to feel
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: a whole new sort of content cycle which which we
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: can have fun with, bring new voices into the competition,
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: and where we're working through how we support those emerging
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: voices as well. So yeah, gamification more broadly is going
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: to continue to be important for us to look at.
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: You know, we've decided with Fantasy to go with a
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: fairly accessible product to start with that will be really
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: easy to use, and you know, we're already getting feedback
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: from more hardcore super fans wanting you know, other iterations
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: of Fantasy with drafts and things like that. So you know,
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: the so there's so many different things we can be doing,
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: and we'll continue to look at how we build on
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: the foundations we're laying.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: You've come from the A League, which is I guess
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: in Australia. Ge'st the NRAL of AFL. What listens do
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: you learned from the A League that you can implement
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: in super Rugby.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was my time in the A League and
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: you know, prior to that, I also worked for one
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: of the NRL clubs so yeah, there's some good learnings
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: that I've got from from some of our competitors. Now,
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: my time at the A Leagues was was really interesting.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: It was a time where the A League stepped away
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: from Football Australia and ran as its own entity. So
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: there are some commonalities there with us setting up a
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: new a new entity to run Super Rugby and so
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: you know, there are some direct learnings there around the
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: phasing in what we should focus on, where we should
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: where we should allocate resource, and work through what's what's important.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: In the unbundling on the A Leagues from Football Australia,
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: one of the learnings was that we focused a lot
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: on content and digital platform but maybe didn't have as
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: close a eye on.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: Our core product on the ground.
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: And so we're really trying to get that balance right
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: to make sure the amazing athletes with God on the
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: park are playing as good as shape of game as
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: we can for fans, and to ensure that the diverse
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: skill sets that exists through one to twenty three can shine,
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: but also then balance that with stuff off the park
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: to drive fan interest and appeal. So yeah, lots of
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: learnings from the previous experience.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: So it's no longer really about the eighty minutes on
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: the park of the weekend. It's that full week sort
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: of experience, isn't it. Yeah, that's right.
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: We know, the old business model of sport would be that, okay,
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: clubs have fourteen games to run their business. With the
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: advent of digital media, clubs now have the ability, the
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: competition now has the ability to engage arou undred and
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: sixty five days of the year. And you know, making
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: sure our full week in a Super Rugby Pacific week
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: is full and fans are getting the information they want
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: is really important.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: And then our next.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: Step is to work through, Okay, outside of those nineteen
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: weeks of Super Rugby, how we feel in conversations about
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: Super Rugby the rest of the year, because there is
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: so much that happens within our clubs and within the
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: competition outside of those nineteen weeks that fans want to
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: know more about.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: You know, that could be filling squads and how clubs
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: go about it.
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: That could be you know, there's huge interest in preseason
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: training on things like you know, you know who's lifting what,
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: who's running what, and so you know, once we get
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: our nineteen weeks sorted and really embed that communication flow
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: and that content. You know, the next thing for us
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: is to extend out of that nineteen weeks.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Without the rebels this year down to eleven teams. Is
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: that sustainable for this competition to have eleven teams? Does
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: it need to be twelve? Ordre us that ten? Can
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: you get by with that odd number for too long?
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I think we can.
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: There's no doubt an odd number throws up some complexity
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: when it comes to fixturing and feeling key slots around
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: a weekend.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, we'll see.
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: You know, we think we've done a good job with
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: a fixture in balancing balancing those complexities spacing of buyers
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: for example, ensuring that we're hitting key markets across the
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: Pacific every week.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: But we'll live and learn through that.
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: And being its first year, we'll continue to really watch
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: that closely.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: You've mentioned those timeslots there you mentioned in your speech
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: before afternoon fan friendly sort of timeslots which people have
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: been crying out for a while. How important. So I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: guess keep that accessible four p thirty Saturday afternoon, three
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: o'clock Sunday, whatever it might be to get those new
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: fans on board. Yeah.
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm a father of three.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Myself, so.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: It is really important that we hit those spots and
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: that we you know, we're also thinking about the nuances
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: of different geographies because an afternoons lot doesn't work for everyone,
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: and so you know, what works in Duneden is different
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: to what works in Wellington is different to what works
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: in Sydney, and so as well as making sure we
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: have those you know, family friendly time slots, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: where we want to go with fixturing is adding in
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: that additional level of smarts to make sure that we're
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: considering you know, Chiefs fans being different to you know,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: Brumbies fans, and so you know, we're looking at that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: in terms of our planning horizons. You know, we want
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: to get ahead of venue availability to give us more
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 5: options and we want more time to be able to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: implement some of those things as well.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: No super Round this year. Do you envisit it being
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: on the scheduling in at some point?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: I do. I think it's a great weekend to celebrate
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: super Abi specific and Rugby more broadly and bring fans together.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: We're certainly looking at for twenty twenty six and beyond
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: and having some really good discussions with some.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Territories and cities that.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: I think would be super exciting for Super Ambi fans.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: With just a few days to launch. Now, I guess
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: the work's being done. You can just sort of leave
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: it to the players and it's ultimately up to them,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: isn't it. Whether you know, the Aussie sides come together
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: and put some pressure on the New Zealand sides, or
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: whether it's the Blues that go back to back. But
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: ultimately it's down to the players and the product, isn't it.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: And that dictates a lot of it. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: But as a competition, you know, week in week out,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: we will be reviewing the on field product, working with
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: the match officials.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: To make sure that our focus area.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: Is to set the players up for success are executed well.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: And then, as we've.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: Talked about, making sure each week that consistent fly of communication,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: whether it be injury update, judicial outcomes, team lists, all
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: of those things happen, you know, in a really great
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: way so that fans, media, our great broadcast partners have
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: all the information they need to have the water cooler
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: conversation or you know for yourself, you know, be able
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: to report on the on the comp.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: So there we go Jack Measley and we will hopefully
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: get him back on the podcast as the season goes on. Truly,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: plenty of issues that we can get stuck into with
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Jack at some point a bit later in the season. Liam,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: it's been good to be back and get back into
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: the rug your Direct studios for twenty twenty five and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: promises to be a big old year, doesn't it.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: It does.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Indeed it can smell the linament, shoulders are warm, hamstrings
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: are getting there. A few hot colds yeap, much needed.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: At they say literally, have a good week.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: We'll catch you back next week on Rugby Directs. Thanks
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: to Habit Health tackling all your aches and pains from
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: sport on work
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B Listen live on
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio