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"The Mandalorian and Grogu" is the Best (and Worst) of Modern Star Wars · Meet Your Double Feature | Movie Reviews & Forgotten Films

0:09
Hello and welcome to Meet Your Double Feature.
0:11
My name is Thomas, joined as always by my brother Frank.
0:14
Frank, how's it going? Oh man, I'm so excited.
0:17
We're talking about Phantom Menace today.
0:19
This is a good one. We haven't gotten to this one
0:21
yet. You see Qui Gon Jin, He's Nope
0:24
Irish I think. Incorrect.
0:26
Well, that's also wrong. You should know that.
0:31
I think you got the wrong program.
0:33
We are talking about a Star Wars movie, but it's from like 20
0:36
years later. We're looking at the this
0:38
weekend's past release of Star Wars, The Mandalorian and
0:43
Gurgle. I'm not familiar.
0:47
I'm not familiar with that title.
0:50
All right, well, we're in conversation anyway.
0:53
I don't get it. Yes.
0:57
The whole episode just sandbagging the idea of going
0:59
with the movie. Yeah, we're switching things up.
1:04
Normally, you know, long time fans know we mostly talk about
1:06
older, somewhat more obscure movies on our show.
1:08
But every now and again we like to chime in on the discourse,
1:12
you know, see what people are watching right now.
1:14
And since we have talked about Star Wars a lot on the show, we
1:17
are known prequels apologists and something.
1:21
To apologize for first of all. Prequels.
1:26
Our good, our goodness. Our goodness.
1:30
Yeah. So I thought people might be
1:31
curious what we thought of the newest Star Wars film.
1:34
I feel like I hadn't seen this until recently, but it makes
1:37
sense. It's the first theatrical
1:39
release from the Star Wars franchise since 2019.
1:42
Quite a while. Yeah, You know, I saw some
1:46
online discourse, mostly like people on Reddit, I guess.
1:52
It's opening weekend, so we don't know yet, but people are
1:53
predicting that this movie was going to bomb.
1:55
And I'm like, there's no freaking way this movie's going
1:59
to bomb. It is the first Star Wars movie
2:02
in a while. I I saw on the like news the
2:05
other day that there was people like camped out overnight to see
2:08
this movie. Well, also, it's good timing.
2:11
It's like, it's like the first big summer movie release.
2:15
I mean, it's not really in competition with anything.
2:17
There hasn't been anything to go see at the theater in a couple
2:20
months. Like that's a big deal.
2:23
I'm sure it'll do great. I think so too.
2:25
And I mean I saw this like in a packed theater and this was a
2:30
crowd pleaser. This was this just hit like
2:34
every beat. You need to, to like there was a
2:36
bunch of people with like they were there with their kids or
2:40
you know, whatever it and it was appealing to everybody.
2:43
So I, I, I feel like this movie is going to be a big success.
2:47
I think the early critic reviews are not super high but not bad
2:51
either. Yeah and Star Wars really hasn't
2:54
had, I mean aside from the original 3 films I don't think
2:57
any Star Wars movie has had good critical reviews cause they've
3:00
all been like mixed to bad. So it's not like the bar is that
3:03
high anyway. Yeah, I think from what I saw,
3:05
this one has pretty high audience scores though.
3:10
Like the critic reviews are are not bad.
3:12
They're in like the 60% range, but the audience scores was like
3:16
88% or something. Which honestly, I mean, I guess
3:20
to get into it, I, I, I actually liked this movie, which was
3:24
surprising to me. I interesting and I knew, I just
3:29
knew I was sitting there watching it and I'm like, I like
3:31
this, but I know Thomas is going to hate it so.
3:38
OK, well, I mean, I could stay off the bat, I thought.
3:42
I thought I was going to hate the whole thing.
3:44
I thought the first half had nothing.
3:46
Oh, that was the part I liked the most.
3:48
Was the first time that's. Crazy.
3:49
OK I thought the movie is both. My like headline review is that
3:54
Mando and Grogu is basically the best and worst of Disney era
3:59
Star Wars. Like there are parts of this
4:00
that were some of the most like boring repetitive nonsense that
4:05
I've seen in a movie in ages. But then there was elements
4:08
towards like the second-half where I was like, this is like
4:10
oddly ambitious for a modern tentpole action movie, and I'm
4:14
surprised both things exist in the same film.
4:17
OK, OK, I, I think I know what you're referring to in the
4:21
second-half, but let's let's stick to the let's stick to the
4:25
first half. What what, what was your what
4:27
were your thoughts? You were you were hating on
4:29
this. So I guess for clarity, just for
4:33
people listening, I'd say we can mostly do a non spoiler ish
4:36
review because a lot of my thoughts on the film are kind of
4:39
broad. And then maybe like at the end
4:41
we can get into more specific spoilers if we want.
4:44
But our perspective coming in, I think Frank, for you as well.
4:47
We're not like super fans of this particular segment of Star
4:52
Wars. I only saw the first season of
4:54
the original Mandalorian show. Did you see anything past there?
4:58
I saw the first two seasons but not the third one.
5:02
Yeah, OK, so both of us not fully caught up on the series.
5:05
That might be the case for people listening as well.
5:08
I'll say off the bat, you don't need to have seen the entire
5:10
Mandalorian TV show to see the movie.
5:12
I would even go as far as to say that watching the movie spoils
5:15
almost nothing about the TV show.
5:16
So like, you really could go back afterwards if you're
5:18
interested in the character. It's basically just a trope that
5:24
anyone would be familiar with that it's like, I don't know,
5:27
crotchety old man takes care of small baby.
5:30
You don't really need to know much.
5:35
How often bring up some other examples of of crotchety old man
5:38
takes care of small baby. Well, the, I think the one, this
5:43
isn't something I've seen, but I know a lot of people compared it
5:46
to an old Japanese film series called Lone Wolf and Cub, which
5:49
is about a samurai taking care of like a adopted child that he
5:54
found, which is basically the same gimmick.
5:56
It's. Yeah.
5:58
It's not the first time, like, I think I've seen it as like a
6:01
plot thread in other stories. It's just a truck.
6:04
That makes sense on paper. It's just like when he first
6:07
finds Grogu in the original TV show.
6:09
He doesn't want to raise a tiny alien baby.
6:11
But then by the time this movie starts, you can tell that
6:13
they're closer and that they're kind of just like a team at this
6:15
point. That's what, yeah.
6:17
I, I, that's what I thought was fun from the kind of opening
6:22
action sequence of the movie. Like I understood the audience
6:27
appeal of the movie right away with the dynamic between these
6:31
two characters. You have like Mando doing all of
6:33
the action for the most part. And then almost anytime Grogu is
6:39
the focus, it's like, it's like the comedic relief, you know,
6:43
like there were definitely times where I was kind of laughing out
6:46
loud in the theater. I thought it was really funny at
6:47
the beginning when he's like knocking on his helmet.
6:50
That was good. That was good.
6:52
I do like I know this has been talked about a lot with the show
6:54
itself. I like that Grogu as often as
6:56
possible as an actual puppet. Yes, that helped.
7:00
So much in terms of like endearing him to the audience,
7:05
like a lot of Jim Henson esque vibes.
7:10
Much like the original Yoda. The original Yoda was a like a
7:13
Jim Henson puppet. Obviously they, they use some
7:17
like visual effects enhancements with Grogu without the movie,
7:20
but for the most part it's like, yeah, that's, that's a, a
7:24
tangible little character and I think that works.
7:27
I I don't think the movie would have worked nearly as well or
7:30
the show I guess 'cause I think it's the the same thing for the
7:33
show if he was a VFX character like the second that first VFX
7:39
character shows up that Steve Bloom is the voice of which I
7:44
don't know his name. I just called him Steve Bloom
7:47
the whole time. Yeah, I'm sure he had a name.
7:49
Which I, I quick aside, I'm just super happy that Steve Bloom is
7:53
getting such a spotlight and a big feature like this because
7:57
he's such an iconic voice actor and he's, he's been a part of so
8:00
many like space properties before that that felt like very
8:05
intentional casting to bring in Steve Bloom.
8:07
I mean, he's the voice of Spike and Cowboy Bebop and Tom and
8:10
Tsunami. Yeah.
8:12
But you're right that as soon as he comes on screen, I'm like
8:14
this. I feel nothing like he.
8:16
He walks in fully VFX alien character and he feels so
8:19
separate from Mando and Grogu. Even though Grogu, like you
8:23
said, has a ton of VFX supporting his movement.
8:26
He just feels tangible in the space.
8:29
And that is maybe one of the biggest things that Star Wars
8:32
has reclaimed is that the audience kind of bullied them
8:35
into using more practical effects to be more reminiscent
8:38
of the original 70s films or 70s and 80s films.
8:42
Because like, Marvel today is so VFX heavy.
8:44
That's like the other big Disney franchise.
8:46
And they don't really do much to like, wield that back in.
8:51
But the Star Wars movies, a lot of times we use physical props,
8:54
physical droids, and it definitely helps.
8:57
I I agree. I mean, like you said, there's a
9:00
lot of complaints to be had about modern Star Wars and the
9:04
Disney era of Star Wars. But I would say that's one of
9:07
the, if you're going to point out the positives, that's one of
9:10
them is that they're. Yeah, because I, you know, I
9:15
think they do it with their droids and a lot of their alien
9:18
characters. And it just, you can tell, like
9:22
the audience might not always be able to articulate it, you know,
9:26
even if you're just like general audiences that are like, I want
9:28
my puppets back, like, you know, but Grogu is a great example.
9:33
It's like people love Grogu. And, and I just, I don't think
9:36
it would have worked the same if he had just been like a full
9:39
EVFX character. I think it would have taken
9:40
people out of it. Grogu manages to like nail the
9:44
most like, emotional scene in the movie with a close up on his
9:48
face. And I'm like, it's a puppet.
9:51
It's like we're getting acting credit to a puppet because it
9:55
works in context for what you're seeing.
9:56
And like towards the end, he's like believably, I don't know,
10:00
he emotes, which I think is just very impressive.
10:03
Absolutely. I mean, I assume there's like
10:04
some animatronics in his face as well.
10:07
I think it's like some traditional puppeteering mixed
10:10
with animatronics in order to get that effect.
10:14
I thought they just hired a little Green Man.
10:16
Yeah, girl, who was real? I, I saw him.
10:17
He's. At the red carpet for the movie.
10:22
Yeah, actually it's pretty cool. At the AMC I went to at the
10:25
Grove, they had like in the the front area, they had like a
10:29
little Grogu puppet robot thing walking around the lobby and I
10:33
was like, oh, that's, that's pretty fun actually.
10:35
That's a cool little guy. He's actually here.
10:38
He's Mr. Grogu loved you in the film.
10:42
Yeah. OK, yeah, so I feel like we've
10:44
we've set the tone a little bit for like what the movie is, what
10:47
the background is like these characters.
10:49
Probably the biggest success story of Disney era Star Wars.
10:53
Because while these are both rooted in existing lore, they're
10:56
new characters that people liked enough to like build upon.
11:00
So the movie is not as worn down by like referencing old Star
11:04
Wars constantly. Like it's, it's looped in with
11:07
the old lore, but it's like a thing that Disney made that
11:10
people like. And I can tell they're very
11:11
proud of that. They're like, we got one.
11:14
Well, it's just like, I was thinking about this while I was
11:16
watching the movie. Like if you took somebody that
11:19
had only seen that the original Star Wars movies back in the day
11:22
and show them this, they'll be like, yeah, that makes sense
11:27
that that's what Star Wars looks like however many 4050 years on
11:31
compared to their more recent films where it's just like, oh,
11:35
this is just like they did the same thing again in a lot of
11:39
ways with these. Like they brought back all the
11:41
same characters and just told the same story in a different
11:44
way. Like this is like this captured.
11:47
I think what I like a lot about Star Wars, I said this to you, I
11:53
don't know if I've said it on the show before, but Star Wars
11:55
is it's, it's like I'm like almost not embarrassed, but it's
12:00
like, I don't even want to admit that I like Star Wars sometimes
12:02
because some people are so freaking weird about it, like.
12:08
Yeah, it's like, how do I say I like this without, without
12:10
saying like this is my identity as a person.
12:12
Exactly. I'm like, I just want to, I just
12:15
want to like it the normal amount.
12:16
But when I was watching this, I'm like, this encapsulates what
12:19
I like about Star Wars in the sense that it can just be these
12:25
space adventures, like isolated stories.
12:29
I, I remember growing up, I've definitely told you this before,
12:31
but I used to read like like little Star Wars novels, like,
12:35
and that's all they were. They were just like, you know, I
12:38
was joking before, but it'd be like, here's Qui Gon and Obi Wan
12:40
just going on an adventure to this random planet.
12:43
And it's almost like what like Star Trek will do with their
12:47
television series. And I know there's been Star
12:49
Wars animated series that have been kind of running for a long
12:53
time, but I don't think even those really captured, like with
12:56
the Mandalorian show and also this movie have done where it's
13:00
just like we're in this world, but we're just kind of going on
13:04
little adventures. And that's what I liked about
13:05
this movie. It was pretty small scale.
13:08
It was small scale. I actually moving a little bit
13:11
more into what happens in the film.
13:13
I had this impression throughout parts of it that this feels like
13:15
it began as like a 40 minute episode script and then just got
13:18
like bloated up to two hours. There's not a lot going on.
13:22
It's a very relatively straightforward plot that Mando
13:27
by this point after 3 1/2 seasons of character development
13:30
in his own show, is just working for what they called the New
13:35
Republic, which is like what became of the rebellion after
13:37
Darth Vader died. And he's just like head hunting,
13:41
like ex imperial officers who are still functioning as like
13:46
criminal kingpins. And then the whole thing is just
13:48
like one job, you know, like he, he gets a lead, he has to go
13:51
talk to the huts, which I guess is our main like nostalgia poles
13:55
that we bring in the huts. And then most of it just
13:59
revolves around that one little mission.
14:00
Like it doesn't really interweave too many other plots
14:03
like a modern blockbuster often would.
14:06
Which is what I appreciated about it.
14:08
I may be wrong about this. I think I heard leading up to
14:12
the movie that this was going to be season 4 of the show.
14:17
And so I was kind of not sure if this was something where they
14:21
had ideas for like multiple episodes of season 4 that they
14:25
stitched together into one movie.
14:27
Or if it is something like you said, where they just kind of
14:29
took maybe one part of what was going to be Season 4 and then
14:33
stretched that out. It feels like they took one
14:36
episode's worth of plot and then interwove a season's worth of
14:41
character development for Grogu. Which I don't know, I think
14:46
again, more so in the first half of the movie, I found it that to
14:48
be a detriment like the movie did not have a lot going on like
14:52
let's let's look at the very beginning of the film because we
14:54
don't want to go too heavy into spoilers right away.
14:55
But like the film opens on a big action set piece on a snowy
14:58
planet reminiscent of like Hoth in the original Star Wars films.
15:03
And the pacing of that scene into Mando going back to like
15:08
the New Republic base into him kicking off the main plot is
15:12
paced very awkwardly. Like there's a bit where he gets
15:15
back from the opening set piece. He lands.
15:18
He goes to talk to Sigourney Weaver, who's here just for some
15:21
star power, although she has nothing to say and no character
15:23
to speak of. Well, she's also like Steve
15:26
Bloom. I feel they wanted to bring in
15:29
people that were part of other space, you know, aliens.
15:32
They, they wanted that connection.
15:34
I. Think they wanted the sci-fi
15:35
connection but I did find it odd that she has like nothing going
15:38
on. She's just here as like to
15:40
deliver plot information. She just says hi, I'm Sigourney
15:44
Weaver. She just says hi, I'm Sigourney
15:45
Weaver. She has really flat line reads.
15:47
It's like she doesn't even want to be there.
15:49
Very strange honestly. Like it made her look bad to
15:52
bring her in in like a look who it is kind of role and then give
15:55
her like no material to work with.
15:57
Yeah, yeah, I feel like they filmed her scenes in like a day
16:00
too, because she's mostly in the.
16:01
Same place exactly. So he goes in, he talks to her,
16:07
she explains that they have a new job for him that involves
16:09
going to meet with the huts, not Jabba the Hut, 'cause he dead,
16:12
but other huts who were like trying to take over the, the
16:15
empire. And she tries to like sweeten
16:19
the deal by being like, I got you a new ship.
16:21
And if you take on the job, which I know you don't want to,
16:23
you can have the new ship. And so the following scene, that
16:26
conversation ends. He's just gotten back to this
16:28
plane and he walks over the ship.
16:29
He just immediately boards that ship and goes and flies straight
16:32
to where the huts are. And I'm like, bro, did you not
16:34
have anything on your ownership that you needed?
16:37
Do you have like, a suitcase? Do you need to, like, eat lunch?
16:41
Like, it has such an odd pace to it that how did the huts even
16:44
have time to find out? He'd agreed and was on the way.
16:46
Like, I know you lose time in like, the hyperspace travel, but
16:50
it comes across almost comical that he just immediately up and
16:54
leaves. It feels like a video game
16:55
character who's just like on to the next.
16:57
Question I Well actually I was thinking that too that this felt
17:03
like a video game in a way well it felt like something you would
17:07
do in the Old Republic MMO. It's like, here's your quest,
17:12
you got to go meet with the huts.
17:14
There's going to be some enemies along the way.
17:17
But I didn't mind that actually, because again, that kind of tied
17:21
into the things that I do like about Star Wars, about the
17:24
things you can do in that world, in this universe with these
17:29
characters. And I even liked the Hut
17:32
connection because that didn't feel too fan service Y to me.
17:37
I I also thought it was hilarious that we had a big
17:39
jacked like Hut slug guy. I was going to say, you don't
17:43
think it's fan service? Like I'd like to know what
17:45
demographic of the Star Wars audience is like.
17:48
Can we please bring back the huts?
17:49
But can we make them tall and jacked and cool and handsome?
17:53
Like who was holding out for like slug violence in these
17:58
movies? It was kind of weird, but that's
18:02
what I appreciated about it. It wasn't.
18:05
It was weird, but it didn't and that's almost why I was it
18:08
didn't feel super fan servicy to me because you could almost see
18:11
it as like an affront to like if you were a fan of Jabba or those
18:16
Hutt characters. It's like this is borderline
18:20
like really stupid. But I like that you went in this
18:24
direction because I wouldn't have pictured a big slug guy in
18:28
like an arena. So I appreciated it for that.
18:31
But again, again, I was watching it.
18:32
I'm like, man, Thomas is going to hate this.
18:34
But I had just had a big smile on my face.
18:36
I'm surprised because I'm not. I'm worried it's coming across
18:41
like I just don't like simple action premises.
18:43
I do. I like stuff like that.
18:44
The thing that was dragging down the entire first half of the
18:47
movie for me was some pacing things.
18:49
Like I said, that transition from the opening into the main
18:52
plot with the huts feels like it's just missing some time
18:55
elapsing in between kind of abrupt.
18:57
I also really despise the dialogue in the entire film
19:01
because. I was going to mention.
19:03
That too very flat, very repetitive and kind of has that
19:08
quality that people are catching onto now of like second screen
19:12
dialogue where the characters have started to repeat
19:15
information in a way that feels very unnatural because usual
19:19
film logic would tell you if you've established something,
19:22
it's established. Whereas now I think the very
19:25
first dialogue in the movie is this ex imperial officer who is
19:29
basically functioning as like he's like racketeering and kind
19:33
of trying to function as like a local area mob boss.
19:36
And like the first thing he says to these people is the empire
19:39
has fallen, but you still are under my protection.
19:43
I will protect you. And I was like, that just feels
19:46
like a screen writing sin. And we've just opened the movie.
19:48
Like why would you use the same word in two sentences in a row
19:52
with no additional context? It's like.
19:56
Fix this. It sounds so clunky.
19:58
I agree it a lot of it felt like either a first draft or very
20:05
much that second screen experience type dialogue.
20:08
Especially with I don't remember the character's name but Jeremy
20:12
Allen White's slug Hut guy like. Handsome slug man.
20:17
Handsome slug man. Rhoda yeah, his dialogue was the
20:21
most egregious. I was it was almost comical
20:24
because he would say the same thing like 3 or 4 times in a row
20:27
and I'm like, what do you, what is this?
20:29
Are you having a stroke? Like, why are you?
20:31
Like why do you keep? That's again, that's my problem
20:35
with the first part of the movie, which mostly focuses on
20:38
Mando being sent to find Rhoda, who he's told has been
20:41
kidnapped, but then discovering that Rhoda doesn't think he's
20:44
being held against his will and is is just a warrior Princess in
20:48
the arena. But he's seen that exactly.
20:52
But again, there's dialogue from Rhoda where he's because he's
20:54
the son, he's the actual son of Jabba the hood.
20:56
And he says like, I'm nothing like my father, period, my
21:00
father Jabba. And I'm like, what is that?
21:02
Why is that in here? That's not even second screen.
21:05
That's just like oddly redundant language that movies usually
21:09
straight. Any type of written word strays
21:11
from that kind of repetition like a book theater movie, no
21:16
matter where it is. Nobody would think that sounds
21:18
good and would tell you explicitly not to do it, and
21:20
this movie does it all over the place.
21:23
Oh, 100% agree. That was that was a, that was a
21:25
complaint I had early on. I I think it was very emphasized
21:29
by his character. I also didn't think that his
21:31
character had much of A characterization.
21:35
It was just him like just spitting out exposition mostly
21:39
and the same exposition over and over again.
21:42
So I was like, who is this guy? I I He's told me repeatedly who
21:50
he is and what he's doing here, but beyond that, he doesn't seem
21:52
to have much of A personality or a character.
21:55
And I didn't, nobody does. There's no good foils in the
21:58
movie for your two main characters, which I think was a
22:01
strength of the original Mandalorian TV show, at least in
22:04
the first season that I saw was they often would pair him
22:07
against a more like interesting, like kind of energetic
22:10
characters that would bounce off of his stoicism in an
22:14
interesting way. Whereas here the other
22:16
characters in the story either had no specific qualities and
22:19
we're just talking about the plot or we're like dull and
22:22
boring. And I feel like that again, is
22:25
what made the first half of the movie feel like such a slog as
22:27
I'm like, I don't care about Rd. of the Hut.
22:29
I would like to leave now. I'd.
22:32
Like to leave the theater. I think I can still get my
22:35
ticket validated. Going to go see Mortal Kombat 2.
22:41
Oh, that one's worse, let me tell you.
22:43
Oh, bummer. So yeah, that I'm surprised that
22:46
those elements for you did not also drag down the opening half
22:51
of the movie, because to me it was distracting and annoying.
22:54
It definitely did. And like I said, I think it
22:58
reached a peak when his character got introduced because
23:02
I was noticing it before that, but kind of giving it the
23:04
benefit of the doubt up to a certain point.
23:07
But when he started talking, I'm like, this is ridiculous.
23:10
But the movie was still sort of moving at a pace that I found
23:17
interesting and enjoyable. And as I said before, it just
23:22
had this crowd pleasing element to it.
23:25
I I think maybe seeing this in a theater full of people 'cause it
23:30
you may have mentioned before, like whether this is worth
23:33
seeing in the theater or just waiting till it comes on
23:36
streaming maybe. Yeah, we talked about that
23:38
before we started rolling that. To me, it is sort of a question
23:41
of because the second screen dialogue aspect, I was saying
23:44
that to my wife. I was like, you don't have to do
23:46
that in a movie theater. People have to pay attention.
23:48
You're not supposed to be on your phone.
23:50
But she was like, well, yeah, but most people are going to
23:52
catch the sun streaming. It's going to have a long tail
23:55
as a Disney Plus release. So I guess that's why they felt
23:58
obligated to do it anyway, because that sort of dialogue
24:00
has, for the most part, not infected theatrical first films.
24:05
It's sort of like a Netflix syndrome.
24:07
Yeah, but I've seen it in in. I remember one of the first
24:11
instances where I thought it was really egregious, which I did
24:14
see this movie on streaming, but it had a theatrical release
24:16
first, was like the two most recent Mission Impossible
24:21
movies. I was dumbfounded by the
24:23
dialogue in those movies. I think those were probably
24:25
worse than this, with the way that they would repeat
24:27
information over and over and over again, like you weren't
24:32
paying any kind of attention. It was like an audio, you know
24:35
how you can turn on audio description subtitles, but you
24:39
know on your TV where it doesn't just tell you what's being said,
24:41
but it'll like say out loud what's happening visually.
24:44
That's how the dialogue itself is now.
24:46
Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. It it's upsetting.
24:50
I I it's like we were saying with Sigourney Weaver, she
24:52
basically just came on and said, hi, I'm Sigourney Weaver.
24:54
They could have just called the movie like Pedro Pascal and Baby
24:58
Yoda, and more people probably would have like, engaged with
25:02
like, oh, I know what that means.
25:04
Exactly. That's the other part of this
25:06
that is frustrating is that in addition to dialogue being
25:08
really repetitive, it's also stripped of any like
25:12
characterization. And almost nobody in this movie
25:14
talks in a way that informs like who that character is.
25:19
Like you're talking about Rd. of the Hut.
25:20
He just speaks in the most plain text, like literally, this is my
25:24
purpose in the story kind of dialogue.
25:26
He doesn't have a quality to how he speaks that makes him sound
25:29
like he's a Hut or that he's from a different planet or that
25:33
he had certain experiences. And our two main characters are
25:36
defined by the fact that they don't really talk much between
25:39
the two of them. It's a massed, mostly silent
25:41
protagonist and a literal baby, and that would be offset by
25:46
having characters who are interesting and more dynamic.
25:49
And nobody in this movie is. They're all less dynamic than a
25:52
literal gurgling baby. He also had his little buddies
25:58
that were smaller than him and and made funny noises.
26:01
Those I don't know what the race of people is called, but it's
26:04
all the Babu Frick guys who were in is.
26:07
That the least name. In the in Rise of Skywalker,
26:10
there's one of them and they call them Babu Frick and he's
26:13
very cute and he's also a puppet.
26:15
And the best decision in this movie made was what if we had
26:17
four Babu Fricks? And I'm like, you know what?
26:19
That feels so like studio note, like people like that guy bring
26:23
him back, but I don't care. That was great.
26:24
Him hanging out. The baby girl grew.
26:27
Hanging out with those four guys was where the movie completely
26:29
turned a corner for me. And I was like, now I'm back.
26:32
I've come back to my seat. I'm I'm going to stay.
26:35
Mortal Kombat 2 wasn't that good.
26:37
I'm back here now. Wasn't that good?
26:39
It's a little gross. I'm going to come sit back down.
26:41
He's. Like oh OK 4 Babu fricks now I'm
26:44
I. Kicked his name.
26:47
Babu and Nabu and Jabu Frick are here.
26:52
Yeah, it's interesting because I enjoyed the second-half in
26:57
isolation. Watching it in the theater,
27:00
though, the movie felt long and being engaged by the first half,
27:04
I felt myself sort of like my interest is waning by the
27:08
second-half, and that's where it really slowed down, which to me
27:13
was sort of an interesting pacing choice.
27:16
I don't know if other people watching it in the theater had
27:19
the same experience, but it felt very high energy in the first
27:22
half and then really slowed down for a significant portion of the
27:26
second-half. And watching it, I was engaged
27:30
with it. I'm like, this is still good.
27:31
But I'm, you know, I kind of felt that like, you know, you
27:34
want to check your check the time and be like, Dang, how much
27:38
more this movie is? There the movie is over long.
27:40
It's like 2 hours and 10 minutes and again, feels like a 45
27:44
minute TV episode kind of. But to me, because I was so
27:47
disengaged by the beginning, because it felt so empty, like
27:51
there's constantly things happening, there's a ton of
27:53
action, very little in between. But only when we got to the
27:57
second-half and it basically became the Grogu movie for a
27:59
while did I feel like anything was happening on screen that I
28:03
felt like compelled by or felt any emotion towards.
28:07
So when that part kicked in, I was like, this is interesting.
28:10
And again, a remarkable contrast to the, like, Insecure dialogue
28:15
and plotting of the first part of the movie because it does
28:17
slow down. It's like, hey, what if Mando is
28:20
largely out of Commission and we have to follow a silent film
28:23
protagonist in Pepiona while he navigates a jungle for a while?
28:28
And I was shocked at how much they took their time with that
28:32
scene because I think if you rush that sequence, it doesn't
28:34
work at all. But also, why would they even
28:36
try to make that happen in the first place?
28:39
Yeah, that part of the movie felt like watching the opening
28:43
act of Wall-e. Yep, I'm going to say the same
28:46
thing. Silent character going on this
28:48
little journey and maybe I'm. It was like playing to the
28:53
strengths that the film makers had because they were so bad at
28:57
writing dialogue maybe. And this was we didn't have to
29:00
worry about dialogue. Yeah.
29:01
Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni. I'm sick if we, the characters
29:04
have to say things. We already gave him a mute guy
29:07
and a baby. Maybe everybody goes deaf in the
29:09
second-half. I honestly think that those two,
29:13
I think there was a third writer credited on the film too.
29:15
There was. But T Filoni for sure has been a
29:20
huge part of shaping the narrative of Star Wars ever I
29:25
think post prequels he he's been a huge part.
29:28
Like he's been a part of it since the Clone Wars animated
29:30
series. And I know people are very mixed
29:34
opinions of what he's done, given how involved he's been.
29:39
And then Jon Favreau as well to I guess different extent.
29:42
I know he was a big part of the Mandalorian show, but I think
29:46
they're almost similar to George Lucas in a way in that they
29:50
understand the world, but they're just not good at
29:55
characters and dialogue and the more intricate pieces of
30:00
storytelling. They're they're good at
30:03
understanding the broad strokes and kind of what makes these
30:05
things fun, but can't get into the like the movie felt like it
30:12
was afraid to have any emotion for most of it, which almost
30:16
made it feel weird when I guess we're getting a little in the
30:19
spoiler territory now because we're heading towards the end.
30:22
Is this, is this the point? Should we make this the cut off
30:25
for past this point we get into more spoilers or did you have
30:27
any general thoughts beyond that?
30:30
It's hard to say, I mean. Sounds like you like the movie a
30:34
lot more than I did because you were more sold on the action set
30:38
pieces throughout the first part I.
30:40
Had so much just the action set pieces, but it had a lot of
30:46
little things that I liked. I, I, I thought the score was
30:52
pretty great at certain points. And I know it was it was I don't
30:57
know how to pronounce his last name or I don't remember what
30:59
his last name is, but it's it's Ludwig who is he's like huge up
31:04
and coming. He he's done.
31:07
He did sinners. He's he's like got three Academy
31:09
Awards already. I think this guy.
31:12
Yeah, it's Ludwig Gransen or something.
31:15
I don't know the exact pronunciation either, but people
31:16
will know the name. They've seen it on a lot of
31:18
recent stuff like you said. Yeah, like there's that part of
31:21
the movie where he he goes to, he goes to Blade Runner and like
31:25
Blade Runner City, like, yeah, yeah, OK, this is where we are
31:30
now. And the score leading into that
31:32
was very interesting. Reminiscent, for sure.
31:35
Reminiscent. I'm like, visually this looks
31:37
like Blade Runner, and this music is kind of making it sound
31:40
like that. But it was like Blade Runner
31:42
Chicago because it had like the L tracks above the street.
31:46
And it even the name of the place sounded like Chicago too.
31:49
So I was like, this has to be intentional, right?
31:51
Like. They did like a French
31:52
Connection esque car chase, which again is like what a weird
31:56
pull in the midst of everything else.
31:58
That's also where flipping Martin Scorsese shows up for no
32:01
reason to do a voice cameo. That's awful.
32:04
I know, I know. I saw his name in like the
32:06
opening credits. He was like one of the first
32:09
like 5 names credited as like actors in the film.
32:13
And I was like, what is Martin Scorsese a big part of this
32:16
movie? But yeah, that was weird.
32:20
I I don't remember the name, but it was something, it was like it
32:23
sound the the name of the planet or city they went to sounded
32:26
like Chicago. Yeah, and and it looked like it
32:29
too. It looked like dirty outer space
32:31
Chicago. And I was like, I mean,
32:32
honestly, yeah, pretty accurate. It's just weird.
32:36
It's like strange. But yeah, I guess to to zoom
32:41
out. I recognized early on what
32:46
audiences would appreciate about this movie.
32:48
I I think it's going to do very well with general audiences
32:52
because it is not ambitious in a lot of ways.
32:57
It it's basically a kids movie. I would say honestly, like.
33:02
Yeah, oddly it's PG13. Yeah, but it felt PG if that
33:07
makes. Sense it felt PGI think PG13 was
33:09
sort of just an inherent quality because Mando just like shoots
33:13
people dead like almost every scene.
33:15
But it definitely felt like the goal was Grogu is a hit with
33:20
moms and kids and just across the board.
33:23
And so they wanted to tone down the somewhat like somewhat like
33:29
sinister quality to the storytelling in the Mando TV
33:31
show, which feels more like a grungy old Western, and instead
33:35
make it like those characters been in a more like uplifting,
33:39
you know, traditional Star Wars setting.
33:42
Yeah, yeah. And I suppose it would be easy
33:47
to feel cynical about that, but I didn't mind it.
33:51
Weirdly, I was kind of OK with it.
33:54
I don't know that that was that was my general feeling from it.
33:57
And we can get more into spoilers towards the end 'cause
33:59
that's that I think what shaped my overall experience with the
34:02
movie, 'cause the first and second-half do feel very
34:05
segmented in a way. Yeah, it's like the Mando movie
34:08
ends of the girl Go movie starts.
34:10
Yes, it's basically like. Which one do you prefer?
34:13
Yeah, there's literally a point in the movie where, like,
34:15
narratively, it kind of comes to a halt.
34:18
And I was like, oh, OK. It's like you were saying
34:22
earlier, it's like he goes home. He's just like, you know?
34:26
He does eventually go home and you know, save and quit and then
34:29
he comes back this morning. So that is where I guess.
34:32
OK, so we'll mark this in the chapters for the episode.
34:36
So the next chapter will be spoilers and then we'll have
34:38
another one at the end that is like general wrap up.
34:40
So if you don't want to hear any major spoilers about Mandalorian
34:43
and Grogu, I would say skip a chapter and we'll see you in a
34:45
minute. Otherwise, I think Frank, we can
34:47
move into some some more specific details.
34:50
Sure, and honestly, there's not even that much to get into.
34:53
I thought it was weird that Grogu died, you know, like, I
34:56
was like that. Seems yeah, Yeah, he died and
35:00
then he came back as a zombie and he ate the Mandalorian that
35:02
was. Mandalorian and then he shouted
35:05
Mortal Kombat really loud and they were like his first words.
35:10
Shah Khan's like taking a picture of baby Grogu.
35:14
He's just got a different surrogate dad and he's just
35:16
like, I like him. He's green.
35:21
Yeah, yeah, the end, so. OK, so yeah, let's let's reset a
35:28
bit. So we were talking about for
35:29
people who've seen the movie or don't care about what happens in
35:31
it past a certain point, Mandalorian gets captured, Grogu
35:35
has to travel with four little Babu Fricks to go save him.
35:41
Because the narrative focus in the movie is that for three
35:44
seasons of television, he's been a helpless child slowly learning
35:48
how to like use the force and like survive in a harsh world.
35:51
In this movie is supposed to be that point of like his
35:54
overprotective bad underestimates how much Grogu
35:58
can do by himself. And so Grogu has a little mini
36:00
adventure to go rescue with Bade that has multiple pieces.
36:04
Like he has to go to where Mandalorian is, which is a
36:07
different planet, which I love because they get into the little
36:09
guy ship and it's just like the tiniest spaceship.
36:12
Yeah, yeah. And then Mando gets hurt in the
36:17
escape, he gets poisoned which this ultimate sin for me.
36:22
They show you that he gets stabbed and there's a whole plot
36:24
beat where Grogu heals the wound and is confused why his dad
36:28
isn't better because they've already shown you in the TV show
36:31
that he uses like force healing and it's because he's got poison
36:34
in him. And the movie very clearly shows
36:36
you that he's been poisoned. But they were so insecure about
36:38
it that they added ADR Hut dialogue that gets captioned on
36:43
screen that says you've been. Poisoned Well, it's a video
36:47
game, so you know it has. To it's a video game.
36:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Use a use an antidote or visit
36:52
the shop. I found that very, very lame
36:56
because that entire sequence that follows makes me more sense
37:00
if kept a slightly more vague, because the whole point is that
37:02
Grogu doesn't understand. He's like, I closed the wound.
37:05
He why didn't he get up? And then he has to learn from
37:07
another character that Mando's been poisoned.
37:10
But the audience, they were so concerned that his festering
37:13
purple wound wasn't clear enough that they just shouted from off
37:18
screen. Also, he's poisoned.
37:20
That Really. That really bothered me.
37:22
Sure. Yeah.
37:24
I mean, I, I think that ties into the fact that I was saying
37:28
that this feels like a kids movie.
37:30
That also means that it's easier for kids to understand and dumb
37:35
people like. Yeah, but like kids movies, good
37:39
kids movies would do all of that visually.
37:42
Like a 90s Disney movie, even a newer.
37:45
Like I went and saw like The Wild Robot a couple of years
37:49
ago, and that was really good. There's movies made for children
37:52
that if anything, take more advantage of film being a visual
37:55
medium than modern movies for adults do.
37:58
And again, it's because they're worried no one will look at the
38:00
screen. But then also in this case,
38:02
they're like, what if we had 20 minutes where it's literally
38:04
just Grogu trying to cure Mando of his poison?
38:08
And we actually like see Time pass and there's like montage
38:11
editing and it's interesting. Yeah, yeah, it was.
38:15
It was all very generally speaking, the whole movie is
38:18
visually pleasing outside of some parts.
38:22
I didn't like the snowy setting of the opening scene of the film
38:30
that that looks just very blue screen heavy, unappealing, But
38:37
their their fake Blade Runner Chicago city looked cool.
38:41
I liked the lighting there. The city they're on.
38:46
There's a I'm sorry, the planet they're on when they're in the
38:48
jungle and stuff. A lot of that looked really good
38:51
too. So cinematography wise, I I
38:54
thought the film had an interesting look to it and it
38:57
did remind me of like watching the Mandalorian series.
38:59
How at the end of some episodes they would show like the concept
39:03
art. I was kind of, I was kind of
39:06
hoping they would do that in the credits of this movie and they
39:08
didn't do it. So it was.
39:08
The last point of that that. That would have been neat.
39:10
And I wanted to see because there was, there's certain
39:12
frames there was where I was like, I can see this as the
39:17
concept art, you know, like how they visualized it and then how
39:21
they filmed it. So I would have liked to have
39:24
seen that. I would say that's maybe the one
39:26
area where the movie met the task of being a film cause like
39:32
television is getting closer and closer to just looking like
39:35
really long movies. But there's qualities to
39:37
filmmaking and like fan expectations that are a little
39:40
different. And a lot of this movie, I was
39:41
like, this could have just been the show again.
39:43
But I would say visually it was polished enough and they did
39:46
enough like higher budget, like action scenes and, and locations
39:50
that I was like, OK, no, this is a movie.
39:52
It doesn't look like they filmed it on that big ugly 360 green
39:56
screen thing that they're always touting now.
39:58
Which I think the Mandalorian TV show was one of the first major
40:02
uses of that technology. It was and I'm I'm I'm sure
40:05
they're going to come out and be like, Oh no, we used that for
40:07
like half the movie and then it looked foolish, but it didn't
40:09
look like a theatre backdrop like a lot of the Mando TV show
40:14
does. It looked like a fully realized
40:16
space that made good use of CG environments.
40:19
So yeah, I would say the visuals definitely don't have any
40:22
complaints. And because this ties back in,
40:25
what I liked about the whole sequence with Grogu and the
40:27
little Babu Frick guys is that like Star Wars is a sci-fi
40:32
property. And the biggest advantage of
40:34
science fiction is that you can create this boundless sense of
40:38
like, wonder for the audience. Like anything could happen.
40:41
You'll have known quantities if it's something like Star Trek
40:44
has, like recurring aliens and locations and stuff.
40:47
But there's that quality of like, anything could happen
40:50
here. And I can't even imagine what's
40:51
next. And Star Wars, for the most
40:52
part, gets stuck repeating itself so often that that
40:55
feeling goes away. You're like, how is this story
40:58
going to somehow land us on tattooing again?
40:59
Like it never changes. And so even earlier in the same
41:04
movie when they just redo the rancor bit where the hut's
41:09
dropping through the floor and there's a big monster under the
41:11
floor, I'm like, that's not interesting or even like awe
41:14
inspiring because as soon as he lands, like, oh, they're doing
41:17
the rancor thing. And then their clever subversion
41:19
is, no, we're doing the trash compactor scene.
41:22
And it's like, OK, then they also do the rancor scene right
41:26
after. And it's so it feels like
41:28
playing with the same small set of toys and you're just stuck in
41:32
them. Where is that whole scene with
41:33
Grogu from a plot perspective created a sense of like
41:38
engagement for me because I'm like, I genuinely don't know
41:39
where this is going. I'm not sure how this gets
41:42
resolved. But also from a filmmaking
41:44
perspective was so impressive to me because as someone who
41:48
watches a lot of movies, I still don't really know how they
41:50
achieved those effects. Like the combination of puppetry
41:53
and animatronics and CG to make all of those Grogu sequences
41:57
work was like amazing to me because I genuinely couldn't
42:01
easily place how they even achieved that.
42:04
Yeah, absolutely it. It looked great.
42:06
It looked great. I do actually.
42:07
I know somebody who worked on this movie, so.
42:10
Is it Grogu it. Was Grogu?
42:12
Yeah, I saw him at the movie theatre.
42:15
Yeah, it's unfair. So you know Grogu premiere, but
42:19
I'm sorry we're. We're good friends.
42:21
Yeah. No, I totally agree though.
42:23
I, I mean, I, if I get the chance, maybe I'll reach out
42:25
and, and ask them and they, they can give any insight on that
42:28
because I think they worked in the visual effects department.
42:31
But it, yeah, it looked great. And I, I think it would have
42:37
been, I don't know. I didn't think they were going
42:40
to do this. I didn't think obviously they
42:41
were going to kill Mandalorian, but that was the story they
42:45
were, they were trying to tell. They, I, I mean, I think the
42:48
huts even had dialogue towards him were like, you know, you're,
42:51
you're going to die someday and that little thing's going to
42:53
live forever. So another great example of
42:55
dialogue that comes out of nowhere to serve the plot that
42:58
Hut drops his Hut accent and just says in clear plain
43:00
English, this is what the story's about and everyone's
43:03
like, Oh, OK, I was concerned. Yeah, that was weird that they
43:08
just stopped speaking hotties or whatever languages.
43:15
It was fine for Rhoda to speak English because he was, you
43:18
know, he moved away. He moved to a new country called
43:21
Dirty Chicago Space, Chicago space Chicago, basically the
43:26
same thing. But yeah, I agree that it felt
43:30
like Mando dying would have kind of made sense.
43:32
But also, I think it was fine that instead it was more like,
43:36
that was the part that made me sad was that Grogu, he goes, he
43:40
he, he finds help. He gets an antidote for the
43:42
poison and he gives it to him. But because he's still, he is
43:44
small, he does not understand. He thought it didn't work
43:47
because he didn't immediately get up.
43:49
And then he just like nestles under Mando's arm and you zoom,
43:52
you zoom and hold on the face of a literal puppet.
43:55
And he gets more emotion out of the audience than any other part
43:57
of the movie. And I'm like, that's crazy.
43:59
That's so impressive to me. How is this the same movie that
44:03
had that first 45 minutes of nothing?
44:07
And that's what's going to make this movie work for people,
44:09
though I, I really think this movie, I don't think it will
44:14
have much of AI Don't know. I don't know if this movie
44:17
itself will have much of A lasting cultural impact, but
44:21
these characters already do. It is I I time what I was saying
44:26
earlier. Some people are saying, probably
44:28
rightfully so, that this movie waited too long to come out
44:32
between when the show was at its peak of popularity, which is
44:37
probably true. But I think this is almost going
44:39
to just throw these characters back into the center of pop
44:47
culture. It's just like you said, it just
44:50
works too well. I wouldn't be surprised if they
44:52
made another one honestly, if this makes enough money.
44:54
And that was almost certainly what they were thinking, too.
44:57
They're like, well, we can't kill Mandalorian.
44:59
If this makes a lot of money, we're going to make more of
45:00
these. So.
45:01
Well, they could have made Shao Khan and Grogu as the next one,
45:04
but they were too cowardly. Yeah, yeah, I would have watched
45:07
that. That would have been fun that.
45:08
Would have been fun. I agree that we get a very
45:12
status quo ending. Nothing changes, nothing big
45:15
happens. That was another aspect of the
45:17
storytelling that just felt like a dropped ball.
45:18
Was that a why is Mando a big idiot?
45:22
Because he betrays the huts, why he's so dumb, why he's so dumb.
45:27
He spends the first act being like, I know the criminal
45:30
underworld, the huts don't mess with the huts and then betrays
45:32
the huts and then go shocked Pikachu face when that like
45:34
backfires on him with no real explanation.
45:37
Like we understand morally he liked Rhoda and didn't want to
45:40
send him back to be tortured, but he just has no like
45:44
contingency. He's like I've betrayed the
45:46
huts, I'm going home, I'm going to save and quit my game.
45:49
Nothing bad will happen. And then spends the whole third
45:52
act being like, Oh no, something bad happened.
45:55
And it doesn't really interface with the New Republic plot very
45:58
well because they almost make it a thing that they get mad at him
46:02
too. They're like, hey, we're the
46:04
good guys, but we have to network with these criminals in
46:06
order to, like, get our job done.
46:09
And I honestly thought the beat would be because he brings Rhoda
46:13
back to where they are. And I thought that Sigourney
46:15
Weaver and Co were going to, like, kidnap Rhoda from him, you
46:19
know what I mean? And that would be how he gets
46:23
sent back to the Hut planet was they were going to be like,
46:25
Mando, this isn't about you. Like, we have a system we're
46:28
trying to rebuild, you know, from the days of the Empire.
46:32
And it would give Sigourney Weaver just a simple, mildly
46:35
villainous turn in the second act.
46:37
But instead she comes in, she's mad, and then just goes, I can't
46:40
stay mad at you. And then she rubs his head.
46:44
No face, helmet looking. Just muttering under her breath.
46:49
Stupid man. No, no, Jango.
46:51
Fett, look at Jango Fett. So that too, like when they do
46:59
that whole scene and then he walks back to a ship and Rhoda's
47:01
just hanging out on the beach with Grogger.
47:02
I was like, wait, what? He's here.
47:04
Like, yeah, that's like a that's a plot detail.
47:07
That's like letting the different like factions in this
47:09
story kind of interact in a way that's more interesting.
47:12
But they're like, Nope, nothing will disrupt our A to B to C
47:15
storytelling. Mando does a thing, he saves and
47:18
quits. He comes back the next day and
47:19
does something else and that's it.
47:21
Yeah. And and that I think is where
47:23
the translation of this going from ATV show to a movie to a 2
47:28
hour plus movie is almost like they were afraid to get into any
47:34
kind of deeper level of storytelling.
47:37
It's it's all extremely surface level.
47:40
Whereas if this had been a show, I think it would have been a fun
47:44
season of television if it was just the same simple story, but
47:48
you did kind of stretch it out and there was more twists and
47:49
turns and like, that could have been interesting too.
47:53
But this was just the very boilerplate version of that.
47:58
It's very stripped down, and it's a classic case for like,
48:00
I'll complain that it's dumbing down too much for the audience,
48:04
and then the movie will make $10 billion and everyone who made
48:07
those decisions will go, you're wrong.
48:08
And I'll be like, sort of, yes, sort of.
48:11
But it doesn't mean it's good. It means that it's like
48:14
everything else, Like you oversimplify and you strip it
48:18
away and you slowly make your audience stupider and stupider
48:22
and less able to even parse what's happening on screen.
48:25
And eventually Mando and Grogu 3 is just going to be like a green
48:27
BLOB in the middle of the screen that just shouts, it's Grogu
48:30
time, like over and over again. People are going to be like,
48:35
it's great. I thought it was minimalist.
48:37
And I'm going to and I'm just going to be not watching movies
48:40
anymore because it's a complaint that predates everything.
48:43
Everyone thinks that things were better before and they've gotten
48:46
worse, but like, movies have gotten stupider in an almost
48:50
objective level. Yeah, I I watched the first
48:55
episode of the studio recently and Bryant Cranston is playing
49:00
like a big studio head honcho guy in that.
49:03
And he has a line of dialogue where he's like, we make movies
49:08
here, not films. And I was like, that's pretty
49:12
apropos of something like this because that's like, I was
49:18
watching this movie, looking at it from like the marketing
49:22
perspective behind it. And again, seeing it with a
49:25
theater full of people and like, this is hitting, this is working
49:27
for all these people here. But for me, the thing that
49:31
really brought me in to enjoying films and movies, if you want to
49:37
look at that as two different things, almost like was big
49:41
budget studio films like this that were good.
49:47
I mean, that like, and again, if you watch the studio, that's
49:50
kind of what Seth Rogen's character is trying to do.
49:52
He was like, I want to make movies that make money, that are
49:55
good, but that are also like interesting and have artistic
49:59
value. And that's a really difficult
50:02
balance to strike. I, I don't know if we've talked
50:04
about it on the show before. We've definitely talked about it
50:07
in person. But like I, I remember in film
50:10
school, even they, they would emphasize like entertainment is
50:14
something intended to reinforce the ideas you already have,
50:17
whereas art is something that's intended to challenge your
50:21
perspective. And films are both of those
50:23
things at the same time. And so it's a very difficult
50:27
like balancing act and stuff like this.
50:30
I think with what you're saying, this went like full on, like
50:33
we're just going to, you know, full on circus.
50:36
We're just going to make the audience like give them a show
50:39
type thing. I just think that there is a the
50:44
movies that you and I would point to as the ones that worked
50:47
for us as base entertainment when we were younger, If you
50:51
look at those same stories now, at least maintained a layer
50:56
through which characters had dialogue that represented the
51:02
kind of people they were. And even movies with stupid
51:05
plots would have a kind of idiosyncratic quality to them
51:09
because it was a little more in the hands of the individual
51:12
creators like the directors and the writers.
51:14
There's just so much control over the final product now that
51:17
makes it to theaters that all of the worst impulses are
51:20
unrestrained. Someone can literally do the
51:22
dumbest, most tedious nonsense where they're like, add the
51:25
subtitle. He says he's poisoned and you
51:29
can't say no where it's before you could just, I'm sure there's
51:32
people working as like directors in the 80s who were just like,
51:35
sorry, Mr. Moneybags, like that's impossible.
51:39
You know, like they just just shoo them away.
51:41
They'd be like, we can't add a new scene.
51:44
That's not how movies work. And then they go, Dang it, if
51:47
only we could have added a new scene.
51:51
So now it's just, I don't know, I just feel tired by some of
51:54
these things because I know it's only going to get worse because
51:56
these movies still continue to make money because it's the fun
51:59
parts are still fun. I just think that there's like a
52:01
layer in the foundation that's missing.
52:04
I will. Say I absolutely hear what
52:06
you're saying and I and I think it's it's maybe just a case of
52:09
we're already pretty far gone and that the the floor is lower
52:14
because you brought up Marvel before.
52:16
Also Disney and those movies, like some of those that I've
52:22
seen are so much worse than this just in terms of the basic
52:26
plotting. This one at the very least felt
52:28
like it had the narrative scripted out from the beginning.
52:33
They knew all of this the like how the story was going to play
52:37
out. They just didn't get into making
52:41
the characters interesting outside of like Grogu's cute
52:44
Mandalorians. Cool, I guess Jango Fett it was.
52:49
Just like Boba Fett, she's like, Nah, no, no, no, Django Fett
52:52
looking at us. I know, I know what we're doing
52:55
here. Window in here.
52:58
Yeah. So, yeah, I don't think that's
53:04
that's more so an indictment of how bad other films have gotten
53:07
that this one felt almost refreshing in that they probably
53:11
had a a finished script before they started filming, unlike
53:15
other modern blockbusters that are just like kind of winging it
53:19
as they go along. Yeah, and they they mostly they
53:22
finished their VFX shots, you know, like there wasn't aspects
53:25
of the movie that looked like, I guess there was something in
53:28
there was like a one shot release on Disney Plus for the
53:31
Punisher. And there's this clip going
53:33
around that's like a stunt of like a guy falling that is a
53:36
stunt actor. And they were trying to, like,
53:38
mask his face with John Bernthal's face, but the effect
53:41
literally just wasn't done. And it made it into the final
53:43
cut of the show as everyone's clowning on that because it
53:47
looks insane. And this didn't have that.
53:51
I think it was a visually polished film.
53:53
And it definitely has a plot that, like, makes sense A to B.
53:57
So yeah, maybe I am judging it too harshly relative to the the
54:01
ecosystem of tentpole action movies.
54:04
Which is is fair, though. I'm, I'm not saying that you
54:07
should dumb down your expectations.
54:09
I'm just saying that I think that's maybe why I, I think I
54:15
went in with almost no expectations.
54:17
I was like, what if I just skipped to this movie and
54:19
pretended like I'd seen it for the review?
54:22
Because I was like, this is. That took me a minute.
54:27
I was just like, why would you do that?
54:29
That's bad that. Wouldn't work.
54:33
I just, I had, I didn't think it was going to be good at all.
54:36
And the fact that it somewhat exceeded those expectations that
54:41
I had and had a level of consistency to it, a level of
54:47
entertainment to it. There was enough that I could
54:51
latch onto to appreciate that the things that, again, I knew I
54:57
was like, I can't wait for Thomas to tell me everything he
54:58
hates about this because. No.
55:01
Am I the -1? I just knew.
55:06
I just knew. I'm like, he's going to tell me.
55:10
Like he's going to tell me that I should feel bad and then I'm a
55:12
bad man for like. No, no.
55:14
I was looking forward to it though, because I'm, I was just,
55:18
I was ready for that opposite, not opposite perspective, but
55:24
different perspective that you were going to have because I
55:27
knew it was going to be there because I recognized the faults
55:30
with it. But it just, it worked for me
55:34
on, on more levels than I anticipated that it would.
55:37
Yeah, which, and I will say there's a lot of movies I like
55:40
that are not good in the same way that something like this is
55:42
not good. And it really is just, is it
55:46
enough? Like, are there enough things
55:48
about it that you find charming that you end up generally liking
55:51
the movie? I mean, I'd say that that
55:53
applies to, I mean, the prequels.
55:54
We talk about the prequels all the time.
55:56
So flawed, so deeply flawed. And yet overall, I like them.
56:00
Whereas this one honestly probably gets just as many
56:04
things right and wrong as those. And I just kind of soured on it
56:06
while watching it. So it really is just a matter of
56:08
taste. It sounds like you came around a
56:11
bit more by the end, but. I could come around a bit more
56:15
by the end. Why don't we let's let's say
56:17
spoiler conversation done. Let's move into just like a
56:19
general wrap up because we did mention at the beginning,
56:22
possibly off air. Is this worth going to see in
56:27
the theatre? Is Mando Grogu a movie?
56:30
Or is it like when they put the last episode of Stranger Things
56:33
at your local cinema? I think it is.
56:38
I think kind of with everything I've been talking about, it
56:42
works in the way that a traditional blockbuster should.
56:48
It's a crowd pleaser. It works for people of all ages.
56:51
You know, I was in a theater with people who brought their
56:54
kids who, you know, they were probably fans of Star Wars and
56:57
they were introducing their kids to it and people who were older
57:00
who have been fans of it for a long time.
57:02
And they were telling their kids, like, when I was a kid,
57:04
Jabba was not this handsome. And then they were like, what?
57:07
This is looks maxing Jabba right here, OK.
57:12
This is manosphere looks maxing Jabba just on so much steroids.
57:20
Yeah, that's part of it. And I think as you mentioned
57:23
too, like from a budgetary perspective, I, I don't think
57:28
this is a relatively small scale story, but visually I don't
57:31
think would have been as bombastic had it just been a few
57:35
episodes of the TV show. I think they were sort of able
57:39
to condense their focus visually with this story and give it a
57:47
grander sense of scale. So I think yes, in terms of it
57:52
being I, I don't know if it's, you know, something you need to
57:57
rush out and go see necessarily, but I think it it feels
58:02
appropriate for it to be a theatrical release.
58:05
OK, I am 5050 on it. I think it has problems that I
58:11
often recognize as being like streaming era television issues,
58:15
like we said, with the dialogue and the odd repetitions in it
58:19
that almost feel like an affront when you're, when you're already
58:22
at the movies. Like you're locked in.
58:24
You listened when he said that same information 4 seconds ago.
58:28
So when he says it again, you're just like, shut it.
58:30
Like what do you think I'm doing in the interruption?
58:34
Like there's a scene where there's, there's no context
58:37
around this. It's not like a spoiler.
58:38
But this guy's, they're on a planet where like salt is
58:41
valuable. And so he's like, come on in,
58:43
pick out any salt you like. And Amanda walks into the room
58:46
and then the scene transitions because they're in a new room.
58:48
And he goes pick whatever salt you like.
58:50
And I'm like, you just said that you just told him to do that.
58:52
Like, and that scene continues. Yeah, yeah, no, that scene
58:57
continues to be repetitive, too. There's like multiple instances
59:01
where he keeps saying the same thing.
59:02
He keeps offering the salt and Mandel's like I don't need any
59:05
freaking salt man. Salty enough as it is during
59:10
this movie or like at the beginning, Sigourney Weaver
59:14
gives all this exposition to Mando about the missing handsome
59:17
Hut and then he goes and talks to the other huts and they just
59:21
immediately give him that same information just as flatly.
59:24
Nothing in between. They don't elaborate on anything
59:27
other than like telling him exactly where he is.
59:29
Again, weird choices that are reminiscent of ATV show and are
59:32
just a plague on entertainment right now and probably forever
59:36
because nothing gets better. But I would agree that the movie
59:40
has a cinematic presentation that I don't like you said, I
59:46
don't think you're like missing out.
59:47
There's certain movies that almost feel like less impactful
59:49
if you don't get a chance to see them in a theatre.
59:52
Like I really liked going to see like project Hail Mary a couple
59:55
months ago at the at the movies. I was like, this is fun and it
59:58
has a sort of like grand scale quality that I think something
1:00:00
might even be lost watching it like on screen at home.
1:00:03
You could watch this when it invariably hits Disney Plus,
1:00:06
but. If you're looking to go to the
1:00:08
movies, I don't think you would feel cheated at all from Mando
1:00:13
and Grogu. It's a film.
1:00:15
It's a it's a problematic film. Not problematic.
1:00:17
It's a trouble problematic. The mantle huts the.
1:00:21
Mantle Huts really dragged me down for me.
1:00:25
Just listens to Joe Rogan every day.
1:00:26
I don't understand. But yeah, it's still a film.
1:00:32
It's decent. I was my opinion of it was saved
1:00:36
by elements of the second-half that I thought were a lot more
1:00:38
interesting. So I ended up with kind of a
1:00:39
middling overall perception of it.
1:00:42
And and I did as well, but almost in the opposite direction
1:00:45
I was. You like the first part?
1:00:47
Well, I was just on board for what it was presenting.
1:00:51
I was like, OK, this is just a silly kind of fun action
1:00:58
oriented film. And then I think, as I said
1:01:03
before, I really appreciated the second-half.
1:01:04
But then I started to feel the length of the movie and I was
1:01:08
like, oh man, maybe this would have been better off as ATV show
1:01:11
where I could take a break and walk away.
1:01:14
Go see Mortal Kombat. Go see Mortal Kombat, Save and
1:01:16
quit. Save your progress.
1:01:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
1:01:20
Yeah. So it'll benefit from both.
1:01:21
I think there's aspects of it that are aided by watching it at
1:01:25
the theater, and then there's aspects that are watching it in
1:01:27
the background while you, you know, browse your phone three
1:01:31
months from now. Yeah, yeah, it's.
1:01:36
I guess that's, that's it, Mando and Grogu.
1:01:40
I thought it'd be funnier if I hated the movie more.
1:01:42
And I think in the first half I was like already like writing
1:01:44
out like titles for this video in my head where I was going to
1:01:47
be like, man, do I want my money back?
1:01:51
But instead I'm like, that's fine.
1:01:52
Maybe. You see, that's why they had to
1:01:54
keep repeating things, right? This guy's already working on
1:01:56
his episode titles. We got to keep telling him
1:01:57
what's going on here. This guy's over here thinking
1:02:00
about thumbnails, and then he's just going to miss it when he
1:02:03
asked about the salt. Yeah.
1:02:05
You know he needs this. I mean, he doesn't need the
1:02:06
salt. I I forgot.
1:02:07
He doesn't need the salt. Does he need the salt?
1:02:09
He doesn't want the salt, but the guy won't stop asking about
1:02:12
it anyway. That's I think that's fine.
1:02:16
I think we're clear to wrap up Frank.
1:02:17
Any any like parting thoughts about Mando Grogu?
1:02:21
Would you go see a sequel? Man.
1:02:26
There it is, It's real perspective.
1:02:29
Well, I mean, it's just, it's like I said before, Star Wars
1:02:34
has just become such an exhausting thing to talk about
1:02:36
because there has to be so many like caveats about it.
1:02:40
And I honestly don't know what you do with a Star Wars movie,
1:02:48
you know, unless you're going to take it in a completely bold
1:02:53
direction to boldly go when no one has gone before.
1:02:57
Like what if we took a couple of characters and we put them on a
1:03:00
five year mission? Yeah, like that would be.
1:03:04
Cool, right? New planets.
1:03:06
New, new civilizations, Yeah, Give.
1:03:08
Them different colored shirts. Yeah, yeah.
1:03:12
You don't want to wear red, though.
1:03:12
That's not a good look. Red shirt is bad, yeah.
1:03:16
And then we have a guy come in and he's just like Mando.
1:03:19
We've got to go to the, you know.
1:03:25
You keep saying you're not the impression guy.
1:03:27
But no, that's why I keep doing it.
1:03:30
I always do impressions that are untested.
1:03:32
You know how people usually like rehearse material.
1:03:34
In that moment I was like, can I do a Shatner?
1:03:36
And then it turned out no, So I just talked.
1:03:40
That's what that's what you were writing down in the movie
1:03:42
theater while they were talking about the salt in the looks Max
1:03:44
thing. You were like, can I do a wind
1:03:46
shatter impression that'll come up during this episode, right?
1:03:49
Just personal reflection, do I need to get groceries again or
1:03:53
do I have time I. Have to get those every week.
1:03:57
Gosh, often do I need groceries. Tell me I need salt, Dang it.
1:04:02
Damn, come back man dog. Don't drop it in the drink, I
1:04:07
need that. All right, well, in case we
1:04:19
didn't already fade out off of that awesome punchline about the
1:04:22
salt, thank you for listening. We'll be back.
1:04:25
Stay tuned for our regular uploads on the Meet Your Double
1:04:28
Feature podcast talking about blind movie reviews.
1:04:31
Frank and I will swap reviews about older, more obscure films
1:04:34
with actors you've heard of in movies you haven't.
1:04:37
So stay tuned for more and thanks for listening.
1:04:41
Bye. Bye.
1:04:43
That's Frank's season 1 bit. He did a reference, you see,
1:04:45
because it's like Star Wars references.
1:04:48
They love the references. Yeah.
1:04:50
Yeah, did you see the part where they the the chess board
1:04:53
monsters from from the Falcons showed?
1:04:56
Up No, I didn't see that actually, but I did that I was.
1:04:59
This was the one mental note I made.
1:05:03
They literally they blat what the heck is it called?
1:05:06
A womp rat? A swamp rat?
1:05:08
Remember what Luke Skywalker says.
1:05:09
He's like a he's shot a womp rat.
1:05:11
Yeah. I wonder what the point of that
1:05:13
shot was. I had to think about it for a
1:05:16
second. I was like, oh Yep, that's it.
1:05:18
No but the the this is all off air but the guys in the arena
1:05:22
were like the monsters from the like claymation chess hologram
1:05:25
thing on the Falcon. OK, I didn't catch that.
1:05:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're not a big enough
1:05:31
nerd. Yeah, yeah, that's stupid.
1:05:33
I caught the womp rat thing though.
1:05:34
Or swamp rat. I don't know what it's actually
1:05:35
called, but. Swamp Thing.
1:05:37
Swamp Thing. Swamp in the city, Swamp in
1:05:40
space. Chicago.
1:05:41
Swamp in the space, Chicago. The episode's got to be done.
1:05:43
If it's still going, please leave.
1:05:46
It's over. Go home.
1:05:47
Sorry, that's my new, that's my new this.
1:05:52
It's going to be for Season 3. Just sorry, sorry for all of
1:05:55
that. Sorry, come back next time.
1:05:57
Sorry. I'm so sorry for everything that
1:06:00
happened here today. Like and subscribe.
1:06:04
I'm sorry I'm. Sorry, I'm gonna stop recording
1:06:06
now. OK, Yeah, we're done.