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Beek on being SPIRITUAL · Beek on being

• 0:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Hi! I hope you are well. This podcast is a place for people to share personal and professional perspectives, talk openly and ask questions. From serious to silly to sublime, it's all about communication and connection. Always coming from a place of kindness and curiosity, we talk about shared humanity, discuss ideas, and highlight people creating a better world.
• 0:24
  We've got to keep learning, keep growing, keep being. I'm Melissa Beek, and this is Beek on Being. Today's episode is Beek on Being Spiritual. Spirituality, finding meaning and connection to something larger than oneself. So many different beliefs and definitions.
• 0:42
  Spirituality doesn't have to be religious, but it can be. Maybe spirituality is something you personally practice, connecting with nature, meditation, prayer, artistic expression, positivity, acts of kindness, finding unity and harmony, looking for a connective thread that unites and uplifts us all, a higher meaning in life or connection to the universe. So how do we start a spiritual practice? Where do we begin? What does it mean to be spiritual?
• 1:09
  Today, we have two incredible clergymen, Rabbi Fred Klein, senior director of Mishna Miami and Rabbi of Greater Miami Jewish Federation, and Reverend Doctor Theo Johnson, senior pastor of Sweet Home Missionary Baptist Church. Welcome. I am so honored to have both of you here.
• 1:25
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Thank you so much. Thank you very much.
• 1:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Good to be here.
• 1:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Would you please both introduce yourselves and tell our listeners a little bit about you?
• 1:35
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Hi, everybody. My name is Fred Klein. I serve as the rabbi for the Greater Miami Jewish Federation and direct our spiritual care programs, our chaplaincy programs for the community. It's so nice to be here with all of you. I grew up here actually in South Florida.
• 1:50
  Grew up in North Miami Beach, Florida. And, in college, I really started exploring my religious faith in a serious way even though I was very motivated as a kid in my traditional Jewish community in North Miami Beach. I started exploring my own spiritual journey in the context of a lot of different, spiritual journeys at when I was at Brown University. So I decided to, concentrate study in the study of religions and comparative religions. And I think for me, one of the most formative experiences was being involved in interfaith dialogue on campus, and actually a person that became my best friend, who became a congregationalist minister, profoundly influenced my life about how to look at other people and other people's journey.
• 2:39
  And so I always feel like the first thing that a person needs to ask is a conversation of curiosity. What motivates you in life? What brings you meaning and purpose? And so I've always tried to, have that front and center in terms of my own journey.
• 2:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: I like that.
• 3:00
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Well, it's great to be here. Thank you so much for the invite. My name is Theo Johnson, and I am, the pastor of Sweet Home Missionary Baptist Church. It's on the south end of town in Cutler Bay, and I'm originally from Dallas, Texas, but been here since 2010. And so what brought me here was the opportunity to become the assistant pastor for the church, but in a few years, I became the senior pastor.
• 3:26
  And so so I am excited about this opportunity and excited to explore what spirituality means for each one of us.
• 3:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Love that. And what inspired you to become clergymen?
• 3:39
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Well, I would say, in my tradition, it's more so of a divine inspiration, I would say. I had no desire whatsoever to ever preach or pastor. But ironically, God, I call who I call God, began to impress upon my heart that that was what he was desiring for me to do. And so, so I went on this journey, went to seminary, and and just through that revelation, I began to sense that this was what God was calling me to do.
• 4:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beautiful. Yeah. And how did you two become friends?
• 4:17
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: We debate about it, I think, but I think it was from one interfaith meeting, and and we got to know each other to to the point where I was invited to Shabbat one night. Remember that?
• 4:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Oh, I remember that. It was a funny story. So, reverend Johnson gets to my house, and he's very excited.
• 4:37
  And he says, why are your lights on? It says in the Bible that you shouldn't light fires on the Sabbath. So I think he thought we were gonna sit in darkness and meditate. I said, no. I invited you for a Shabbat meal.
• 4:49
  We're gonna celebrate. We're gonna partake in, you know, partake in in a meal together. Yeah. And that's how you really create friendship around around bread and around eating.
• 4:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes.
• 4:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And, I think it was your your first challah.
• 5:02
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 5:03
  Rabbi Fred Klein: They were. We had a few extras, and you guys liked it so much that we gave it to you and your wife. We should
• 5:09
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Sure did.
• 5:10
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Take it home. Make a make a French toast on on Sunday morning.
• 5:14
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yes. We ate it. We ate it. One of the things I was very intrigued by is that he asked me to to open his refrigerator. And I was like, what?
• 5:26
  I was like, so explain to me. So you could you can't turn the light on, you can't open the refrigerator, you can't open the, you know, turn anything on. And so he began to explain to me the significance of Shabbat for him and I just thought that was interesting. And so that's what I love about Fred, I love about different individuals that I get to meet because I just believe that we're all interested. We're interesting individuals, we need to get to talk and you see how much we have in common with each other.
• 5:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well said. Well said. So, before we start the whole conversation on spirituality, can we sort of define and clarify these terms?
• 6:02
  Spirituality, faith, and religion. Because I've heard sometimes they're used synonymously or interchangeably, but think there's a small difference.
• 6:15
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, for me, I think people think about faith as a belief, and that is true. But I think faith is also an action. Right? The people have to act faithfully. So in life, we do actions, and that inspires how we think about the world.
• 6:35
  You don't think about love. You love somebody, and through loving them, they become the object of your devotion and your effort. So I always think what it means to be faithful is to take actions of service to the other and, in in this case, to God Okay. As a as a person of of faith. So it says in the the Shema, which, our Jewish listeners will know, it says, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might, and these things I command today should be upon your heart.
• 7:05
  How do you love? You don't love in your heart. You love in actions. Just like a child, just like a spouse, just like a parent, you express acts of devotion, and that actually the heart is a muscle. Right?
• 7:19
  And we cultivate faith by doing actions in this world that are meaningful.
• 7:25
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I agree with that. So from me, coming from a Christian tradition, for me, faith is a personal trust in God or to have a confidence in God. Hebrews eleven one says, now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So for us, it is more so you believing in something so much that you're willing to, as as Fred said, act it out. Even though you don't see it, you believe or you may not have all the the facts, you you live it out to the point where you believe it.
• 7:58
  And, what we believe is that faith is an action as well. Mhmm. That's a part of your that's the whole part of the makeup.
• 8:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I think it's part of a fabric of a life. So, you know, in a life of study, when you're constantly studying scripture or in Jewish community, also rabbinic text, the Talmud, you begin to actually create a language of faith.
• 8:20
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Mhmm.
• 8:21
  Rabbi Fred Klein: The way I think people of faith speak is very different. The way you look at the world, the way that we understand the world around us. And I think that that's a very important idea, that I grew up in a traditional Jewish community. I'm an Orthodox rabbi, Orthodox Jew. And so even when I was a little kid, every day, I would have to say blessings and bless God for the food that I'm about to eat.
• 8:47
  That changes like a simple act like eating, which people think so unconsciously about what they're doing. All of a sudden, when I take a piece of food and I make a blessing, thank you God for giving me this, that changes even the way you think about the world, that everything has that divine blessing
• 9:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 9:04
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Within it. And I think that that's really important in terms of a faithful way of looking at the world as well.
• 9:10
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. I think about what you just said. I think about every morning when you get up and you say, like, the Modi Ani, which is the blessing. In the morning when for getting up, being alive, arising.
• 9:20
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right, Bodhaini is the thing that I as we wake up in the morning and recognize that you've woken up, the wonder of actually being alive.
• 9:29
  Melissa Shere Beek: Alive.
• 9:29
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Because there's no reason why anyone should necessarily be alive.
• 9:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 9:33
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So, in some ways, it's a symbolic resurrection. Every morning that we wake up unconsciousness to consciousness is an opportunity to reflect upon that.
• 9:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. And to say a blessing for rising in the morning.
• 9:45
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I love it. Yeah.
• 9:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: And what what is what are your definitions of religion and spirituality? Or you could just do religion now and then we'll get to what spirituality means to you after.
• 9:55
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. So I think that for for for us as Christians, religion just basically is an outward expression of our faith.
• 10:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 10:07
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: You know, it may it may look different for so many different people in terms of how you practice it, but overall, it's it's just the expression of what you believe.
• 10:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 10:18
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: And you're you're adhering to its its core principles.
• 10:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 10:24
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: And so so religion for us may look different than the Jewish tradition, but but to me, it's all act of faith.
• 10:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: Act of faith. Yeah. I think that's well said. And what does spirituality mean to both of you?
• 10:38
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So for me, working as a chaplain, so as opposed to when a person comes into a church or a synagogue where you become the religious authority, when I go into a room of a patient or I go into a room of another human being, I'm going into their sacred space.
• 10:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Got it.
• 10:54
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so spirituality is an idea of how does one create meaning out of life? How how does one create a sense of value that's beyond this moment? And I think most human beings are spiritual seekers.
• 11:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 11:09
  Rabbi Fred Klein: They want a sense of their lives that's more than this moment, that here you're here for now, and then you're gone tomorrow, but rather that who they are, what their essence is, will live on.
• 11:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beyond them.
• 11:21
  Rabbi Fred Klein: The way people construct that sense of meaning is diverse among different groups and cultures, but ultimately, I think always looks for something transcendent about this world. And I think that that's actually ingrained in our hearts. I think all of us want to live our lives in light of something larger than ourselves, because if we're just out here atomized individuals, it's very hard to get up and go day by day, especially when there are life's challenges.
• 11:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 11:54
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. Yeah. Religion, on the other hand, I think religion is once you have a religious insight, that's concretized in a community, a discourse. So every, you know, religion is gonna have its own insight. In fact, you know, very often, the founders of religion came out from other religions, and they had a deep insight about what the truth of this world was.
• 12:16
  Right? And in their community, they were seen as heretics. They were seen as revolutionaries. Right? You know, whether it be Abraham smashing idols or, you know, reverend Johnson could speak about Jesus.
• 12:28
  But these new spiritual insights were not accepted at the religions of the time, but ultimately, it was adapted by a community and concretized in law or credos.
• 12:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 12:38
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so religion is a, I would say, a cultural phenomenon
• 12:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 12:43
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Where we create communities around certain spiritual insights, but spirituality is always, I think, unique to each individual. 10 people could be practicing religion and 10 people each have their unique own spiritual experience.
• 12:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: Idea of spirituality.
• 12:59
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: That's good. That's good. I heard the statement, and I don't know how true it is, that we aren't human beings having a spiritual experience, we're spiritual beings having a human experience. Oh, I just think that we are the makeup is more than what we see now and is bigger is bigger than what we see now. So for me, spirituality is embracing that that life that you really don't see that connects you to a higher Mhmm.
• 13:28
  Some would say a higher being or higher God, and gets you closer to to those individuals that because I believe we all have more in common than not. And the humanness, while we connect, I think is also important for the spiritual life to connect as well.
• 13:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: So on the same thing of connection, have you noticed similarities between your faiths like ethical code, acts of kindness, compassion?
• 13:59
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I would say yes. I would say yes. I know it's expressed in different ways, but most of us have the fundamental practices like, for instance, prayer. I know prayer is a big part of what the Jewish tradition have and and I I we as well. Acts of kindness, treating someone the way you would wanna be treated, I think is just innate in us.
• 14:29
  Just being able to there's this thing called the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And so, for me, I think that there are similarities in terms of how we treat people.
• 14:43
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. And I also think what Reverend Johnson talked about when he was called by God to service. I think that idea of calling, you know, in the Jewish tradition, we might call that mitzvah. Mitzvah means commandment. But commandment has the same same idea of calling.
• 15:03
  Right. That a religion is basically making a proposition that you in this world are important. Yeah. That your actions make a difference in this world.
• 15:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 15:14
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I think so many people in our generation don't think that their life has infinite meaning, and that's really tragic.
• 15:22
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: It
• 15:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: is. I think when God says, I choose you, right, as my partner in redemption, I choose you in the project of improving the world, that gives a sense of importance
• 15:35
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yes.
• 15:35
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That we are called to service. Are and so I think people that have a spiritual or religious foundation very often have more resilience when they're faced with challenges in their life. So I think that that's something that all great religions really ask us to consider, that our lives are more than this moment. Our lives are more than what we might assume. And so I always that's why I I'm interested in in meeting people from other faiths.
• 16:06
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Because I don't think I have the entire truth. I think that anyone who thinks that they're have the entire truth is an idolater in my mind.
• 16:14
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 16:14
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That they have created a god in their own image. We are created in the image of god. God is not created in our image.
• 16:21
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. I, over the last few weeks, I've had to deal with several individuals who unfortunately decided that life was not worth living and they took their lives. And what came out of that is that they didn't think there was anything beyond the moment. And so what you're saying is important because when you have faith, no matter how bad it it gets on this side, you still believe that there's something greater beyond this moment. And so I think that's the foundation that many of us in religions have is we know that there's something bigger than us.
• 17:02
  There's someone bigger than us. And so this moment is difficult. This moment may be miserable in that moment but you keep you keep pressing on because, God has something better for you.
• 17:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: I'm sorry that you've had to deal with that. That's Yeah. That's heartbreaking.
• 17:20
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Someone told me once, when hope dies on the inside, there can be no help from the outside. And I just think when we that's what for us, for me in in particular, religion is a hope that there is something greater than what we see now.
• 17:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: How how do we have faith in uncertain times then? I
• 17:43
  Rabbi Fred Klein: think, that's a really important question, and, I think that one of the ideas of for me, okay, I I I think that there are many people that might believe, if I believe everything's gonna work out okay, and then it doesn't work out okay. And then people have a crisis of faith. Because life is supposed to go in a certain way, and it doesn't always go the way we want. Rather, faith asks me ask myself, what is a faithful response at every point in my life? There's a prayer during the Rosh Hashanah, the Rosh Hashanah services, which many people pray where it talks about that all beings are judged on the Jewish New Year, who will live, who will die, who by fire, who by water.
• 18:40
  A lot of times people have a lot of difficulty swallowing this, but it's not really saying that God is judging, that we could actually figure out the calculus of God's judgment because we don't know that. But we do know that these events happen every year to people that are worthy or people that are unworthy. Mhmm. These events happen, but the end of the prayer says three things. It says, which means repentance, prayer, and good deeds override the evilness of the creed.
• 19:13
  That doesn't mean the bad things are not going to happen, but there are three dimensions in which a person lives. Teshuvah means repentance, my relationship with myself, with my inner values. Tfilah means my relationship, my vertical relationship with the sense of the cosmos, the sense of the divine. Tzedakah, which means charity or good deeds, is my relationship with my fellow man. If I have those three dimensions in line in my life, I will know how to respond in every situation in my life.
• 19:45
  It says in the book of Psalms, the one hundred and eighteenth Psalm, it says, I praise you for you have answered me, and you have become my deliverance. But in Hebrew, says, which means can mean that I praise you for you have answered me, but some of the commentaries say that means you oppress me. I thank you because you oppress me, and that became the way to salvation. Now what does that mean? I think to a certain extent it means if we learn about ourselves, the times that we learn most about ourselves are in trial.
• 20:22
  And I'm sure you could talk a little bit about that in Christianity, how we grow in times of trial and even suffering at times. But the lessons of life very often, we are not the same people. Right. We go through those trials right. We are learning.
• 20:37
  We're learning and we're growing. And looking back, right, of course we don't want to suffer in life. Of course, we we want things to be only nice in our lives, but we know that's not true. The question is how do we respond? How do we grow out of our experiences?
• 20:55
  And so I could tell you from my own experiences going through very difficult times in my life, I don't think I'm would be the same individual that I am now if I didn't go through them. It doesn't mean I wish those experiences on
• 21:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: me. Yeah. Agreed.
• 21:09
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Well, because faith, in essence is like a it's like a muscle. You use it, you build it, it it grows. James one in in our New Testament says, consider it joy, pure joy, brothers and sisters, when you endure various trials because you know that, the testing of your faith produces perseverance. And perseverance, when it's complete, you're you're mature and lacking nothing. And so it it it lets us know that you are going to go through trials, you're gonna go through difficult moments, but it's in those moments that your faith is tested and your faith is built.
• 21:48
  And so, like I said, just like a muscle, if you don't use it, it won't get bigger. Agree. And just like he and so through trials, tribulations, through life circumstances, we're put in this place where we have to exercise what we really believe.
• 22:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Although, I I do think, you know, that when people go through suffering, a person has to figure out that meaning for themselves.
• 22:13
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I think, know, I think in religious faith, there is room for doubt. There is room to express one's anger, one's disappointment. Think about a most the most fundamental relationship we have with people. Right? We sometimes somebody will disappoint us.
• 22:33
  Yeah. Right? And we don't understand why they disappointed us. We'll be angry. We'll express our our sense of suffering at that moment.
• 22:42
  That doesn't mean that, there's no more relationship. It means that that relationship is strained because of what's going on. The and I think the same thing we can speak about in terms of our religious faith. I think there is room for religious questioning. Yes.
• 22:57
  I think that that's important because Yeah. That means that it's strong. It's an important dimension in our life. People that don't think that this is an important dimension probably are not gonna ask these questions. It's for those people that their faith is strong, that that relationship is strong when people begin asking questions about faith.
• 23:14
  So I think we have to have room for people to experience what they experience.
• 23:20
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And in time, people sometimes will find meaning out of those difficult times of uncertainty and suffering.
• 23:27
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. There was a statement that I made a number of years ago that you reminded me that I said, and that is while we may not know what our future holds, we know who holds our future. And so in that, there may be questions. I've dealt, you know, since being here in 2010, I have literally done about 300, almost 400 funerals. I mean, people have died, not just older people, younger people, tragic situations and it never fails me that people want to know why.
• 24:04
  While we may not be able to answer that, they still have to trust the God that they believe in to get them through that moment. And I've seen it so many times where sometimes people, they they don't get the answers that they seek and they still wrestle. And I tell them it's okay to wrestle. It's okay to wrestle with your faith. Sometimes it's okay to wrestle with the the crisis, but at the end of the day, for those who are able to endure to the end, they know that while I may not be able to explain it, I still hold on to that one who holds Yeah.
• 24:36
  On to
• 24:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: How do you handle that? How do you both handle that? When you're supposed to be the pillar of support for your congregants, when bad things happen, how how do you handle those trying times? Faith.
• 24:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think you have to listen to the people and understand where they're coming from.
• 24:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 24:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And then you have Every tradition has a lot of spiritual resources in which we can draw.
• 25:05
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: But
• 25:07
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I'll give you a story once. There was a person who was dying and somebody came to visit them before the Shabbat and they said, Rabbi, I'm dying right now. And the rabbi wasn't prepared to hear that. The rabbi said, no, you have to have faith. You gotta pray to God.
• 25:28
  And if you pray to God, everything's gonna be good. You know, you're gonna have a good Shabbat. And he gave him a challah for Shabbat. Of course, the man was at the end of his life. He couldn't even eat the challah.
• 25:39
  And he, a few hours after that visit died. That was a missed opportunity. That was the insecurity of the individual saying, what am I going to say? What am I going to do? How am I gonna deal with this person that's suffering?
• 25:55
  I think part of being a religious leader is to be with the person where they are at that moment. Mhmm. Right? Absolutely. They will figure out how to understand their own life and how to bring meaning to this event in their life.
• 26:10
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 26:11
  Rabbi Fred Klein: My role is to be there with them in the trenches. Yeah. It says, you know, that one of the most famous, images, God appears to Moses at the burning bush. And, that's the first time Moses actually sees or hears the voice of God. Right.
• 26:28
  And God decides to manifest God's self as the burning bush. Why the burning bush? So many of the rabbinic commentators say because it represents the suffering, that I, God, hear the suffering of my people, because that's the next thing that God says to Moses. I hear the suffering of my people and their screams, and I'm going to redeem them from the land of Egypt. So the image of Moses seeing a bush on fire represents the idea that in Hebrew, I am with you in your pain.
• 27:01
  The idea that we walk with people in their suffering, and we don't find easy answers to get people. Right. Because they won't be satisfied with these answers. Yeah. I mean, if there's somebody that died young and I tell a parent, well, this is why it happened, that's never gonna bring them solace or meaning.
• 27:19
  They have to figure out that themselves. You know, that I, my son died, they brought something to my life that I didn't know about life before. Now I created a foundation in their memory. I carry their memory in a new way. That's a way of person kind of seeking meaning out of something that is not explainable, not under you know, not we don't know the answers.
• 27:42
  I think to try to provide answers, I think, is counterproductive most of the time.
• 27:47
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I've had to learn that that I don't have the answers most times. I'm just present with you through that painful moment because there's nothing that you can say that's sufficient for that mother or their father. And I can think of countless number of times when I wanted to tell them it's going to be okay or this is why it happened but I can't tell you that. And I let them also know, I don't know what you're going through right now. Because even though that person may have gone through something and somebody else has gone through similar, that those are individual pains, their individual crises that they're having to walk through.
• 28:30
  But I I was reminded of something, Rabbi, I was in Israel a number of years ago and we were driving down, from Jerusalem to Jericho and I saw some bed winds on the side of the road and and and I saw this whole little sit ups setup and I asked the guy to let the window down and when I when he let the window down, there was this god awful smell. These these sheep, man, it was it was just dingy. And I was like I was like, what is that smell? He said, that's the sheep. And I said, well, what are those guys doing?
• 29:01
  He said, those are the shepherds that they live with the sheep. They're over there. They they're in that with the smell and everything. And I said, I asked them to let the window back up.
• 29:09
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Believe it. But it
• 29:11
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: but it reminds me of us as rabbis, as as pastors, shepherds of the people that that we're there with them. Won't be able to answer all their questions, but just the fact that you're there to hug, to hold, to cry with them, that's been, for me, that's been the biggest revelation for me is I don't have all the answers, but I can be present in that moment.
• 29:36
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. And I think you have to listen really closely to the way people respond to different events in their life, because I think one of the most important ideas in both religions, I think, is the idea of gratitude.
• 29:50
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Gratitude means that I'm dependent upon something outside myself. Right? And that, you know, no no one has ever come to me where they won the lottery and they said, Rabbi, why me? Why do I deserve that? I don't deserve this.
• 30:04
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Right. Right.
• 30:05
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? No. Nobody ever asked that question. But if you think about your life and you think about the number of days that you wake up we started about when you wake up in the morning. Mhmm.
• 30:14
  Most days, you're gonna wake up. Most days, there's a blessing actually in Judaism when you go to the restroom.
• 30:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? Until somebody, is incontinent, they don't under people don't necessarily understand that a simple function in the body that happens every day for most of us, is miraculous. Yeah. So if you look at your life in in light of miracles
• 30:37
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yes.
• 30:37
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That everything is from the divine flow of of God, if everything is a blessing in life, then I think that gives you a perspective about events. I I couldn't say this myself, but there was a person that just, we're talking about funerals. Somebody just lost a 15 year old son. And during the funeral, he said, I thank God that I had this blessing for fifteen years. I was privileged by God to be given this soul in my care.
• 31:09
  And then he began to recount all of the ways this child impacted his life, his friends, the people around them. And so he transformed at that moment. Now I don't know if I could do that myself. Maybe we don't even necessarily believe in what he said. Maybe he's trying to find meaning.
• 31:31
  Nonetheless, that's the story of his life that he chooses to tell, that life has not cheated me at that moment, but life has blessed me right, with this undeserved gift that gave me so much joy in my life.
• 31:48
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: So
• 31:49
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think that we can frame our stories of our lives in any way we want.
• 31:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 31:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? And I think that that kind of storytelling that we tell ourselves, which is spiritually informed, is empowering. It's empowering to us because walking around throughout our lives saying we're the victim of everything we'll create the next chapter in our life where we're filled the victim. We're not the author of the next That's chapter in our good.
• 32:15
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I love it. Yeah.
• 32:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: So what would you say to someone who's trying to start a spiritual practice to find more meaning in their life?
• 32:23
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's a great question. What do you think, Reverend?
• 32:29
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: For me, I would ask them to search for that that brings you peace. For me, I've learned and through pastoring, I've seen that materials, wealth, things that we see, those things don't bring you ultimate peace. And so you have to find that that will bring that inner peace in you that you can you can rest well, that if all hell breaks loose, that it's it's well with my soul, so to speak. And so I would encourage them to go on that journey to find that peace that surpasses all understanding.
• 33:17
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I like what you said. It says in the book of Proverbs, he who loves money will never have enough money. And I think it's interesting that we live in a time that we have so much plenty in this country. Our lifespans are longer than any other period in history. We have more material than ever before, and yet we have this attitude of scarcity.
• 33:43
  If I don't get the next iPhone, what's gonna be? What's gonna happen in my life? If I don't get the next house, if I don't get the next car. Right? We always have this idea that we need more.
• 33:54
  And I think, it says in in the ethics of the fathers in our tradition, which means he who is the one that is truly wealthy in this world? The one that is happy with their lot. But they say, I have everything I need. I have everything in this world. God has given me so much.
• 34:16
  Wealth, feeling a sense of wealth, as you said, is really a sense of gratitude for the things that people have.
• 34:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Which you already
• 34:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: have. And in terms of the spiritual practice, I don't do this, but I think about it every day, is writing a gratitude journal. If every day you write down five things you're thankful for, after one month, you'll begin seeing the world differently.
• 34:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. It's true.
• 34:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I had that great latte and it just, you know, I loved it Made my this day. I saw a friend I hadn't seen in a long time. It was so invigorating to see this old friend.
• 34:56
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. Mhmm.
• 34:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You know, write it down. All of a sudden, start looking for things to be grateful for.
• 35:01
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. Absolutely. In our tradition, Jesus' words is, don't store for yourselves treasures on earth where thieves and robbers will break in and steal or moth and rust will destroy. But store for yourselves treasures in heaven where thieves and robbers cannot steal and moth and rust does not, destroy. And it it causes us to to put things in perspective.
• 35:24
  Those things that you can see, those things that you can hold on to can be taken away at any moment. And and those things that you don't see is really, in in my estimation, are the most important things. We make the statement in our tradition that, especially during funerals, I've never seen a U Haul carry all of your things to the grave with you. Now there are people who may be crazy enough to do those things now, but trust me, they're not enjoying those things because they they can't take them with them.
• 35:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 35:56
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. So I I, you know, I agree with rabbi just taking the time to have a a I don't know what you call it, a journal.
• 36:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: A gratitude journal.
• 36:03
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: A gratitude journal. Just looking at all the things we we say in our tradition, all of our good days outweigh our bad days so we won't complain. Right. Because you can always look at someone who has it worse than you. You can always look at a situation and say, I can be thankful and grateful Right.
• 36:21
  For
• 36:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Perspective.
• 36:22
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: When you add it all up, you say, hey, my life is better, you know, than it is miserable.
• 36:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's perspective. You said a gratitude journal, but so I'm a big person of God talk. I pray, like, all the time, and I don't doesn't matter when I wake up in the morning, before I go to bed Yeah. In the car. It's always God talk.
• 36:40
  I'm always but the the last thing I do before I go to bed at night, and it's not a gratitude journal, but I start off with thanking God for. And it's it could be simple things, just like getting up in the morning. I mean, health is a big thing, just like all the non tangibles, so to So and it does rewire your brain, I think, in a way that that you tend to look for the gratitude pieces, you know, all of those blessings that you have that you take for granted. So, I do you know, doing journal is great. I I don't write it out, but I definitely speak it out.
• 37:16
  Yeah. And I see that ever since I've done that, it my perspective on what has meaning to me is very different. Yeah. Maybe our listeners will start a gratitude journal.
• 37:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, I I actually think one of the best spiritual practices in Jewish in history is the Shabbat. Every seventh day, you pull back from the world around you to focus on other issues. So when Shabbat comes, I don't use electricity. Don't use a cell phone. I'm unburdened.
• 37:48
  Like people say, you know, but I'm gonna be disconnected. Yeah. I'm gonna be disconnected. That's right. I'm unburdened from all of the things of the week.
• 37:57
  Right? It says in the Bible that for six days you shall do all your work, and the seventh it is the Sabbath. So the rabbis asked the obvious question, what do mean do your all your work? You never do all your work. Right.
• 38:09
  You're always there's more and more and more and more. I mean, you know, you know this. Right? Yeah. You never finish your work.
• 38:16
  So the rabbis say, when Sabbath comes, you have to make it in your head
• 38:20
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: That's good.
• 38:20
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Like all the work is done.
• 38:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 38:23
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so you can just now, right, experience community, experience family. Yeah. Being around the the Shabbat table with family members, I think so many Americans
• 38:34
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 38:35
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Need this right now. You know, whether or not you're going to keep a traditional Jewish Sabbath or a different type of Sabbath, you need to unplug. You need to come together and enjoy one another as families. Find holy times during your week. Yep.
• 38:50
  You are not the sum total of your work. You're not the sum total of of all the pressures in your life. You are divine beings that were created in this world. This idea of seven Yeah. Is not an astronomical phenomenon.
• 39:04
  It's based upon the story that God creates the world in six days and rests on the seventh. It reminds us that we are created beings. Whether you take that story literally or not, the proposition is saying that you are divine creatures. Mhmm. And every seventh day, you focus on another order of being.
• 39:24
  Even the Jewish tradition says you get like an extra soul on that day, which just comes again to tell us how special we are. So we need those special times in our lives regularly, not like once a year or Right. But every seventh day, it doesn't matter what's going on.
• 39:40
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that, man, because I have to do that more often. But what I've learned to do is to disconnect from some things that would bring about worry and frustration like the news for instance. I used to look at the news every morning and I'm wondering why my day is just like drained and I'm just so much going on. But since I don't look at the news until the afternoon, I get through my whole day and sometimes I get a chance to just catch a little bit of what the current events are, but I've noticed that my pressure is down, my stress level is down.
• 40:17
  And so what I try to do is at least once a week is to disconnect from social media, disconnect from television, disconnect from all the phone calls. So I guess I'm starting that, maybe not on a on a Friday night and Saturday, but I'm trying to find a day to say you have to take time to disconnect. A 100%. On
• 40:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: that same thing of community and connection, how do you see spirituality making more room for
• 40:44
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: that? You wanna answer that one?
• 40:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: You both punted to each other.
• 40:54
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I guess I'll start. I think I think there's a Jewish idea that you can't be a spiritual person on a mountaintop. That ultimately we find our spiritual self realization in relationship, not just with God, but with other people.
• 41:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: To each other.
• 41:13
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. We have a saying in the Jewish tradition, if I am not for myself,
• 41:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: who will be for me?
• 41:18
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And if I am only for myself, who am I?
• 41:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Who am I?
• 41:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? And I I think that, you know, one of the best ways of battling a sense of despair or depression is to live life outside yourself.
• 41:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 41:32
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yes. Because I think we all go through difficult times in life. I don't think clergy are any different than anyone else.
• 41:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. No one's exempt.
• 41:40
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah, no one's exempt. But when I live outside myself, when I know that I'm needed and I try to serve and give, that ennobles my life. And I think we realize ourselves as human beings in the context of relationships. So I think that's why it's not just, I think some people are thinking about spirituality only against society, kind of pulling back from the world.
• 42:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right, as an individual practice.
• 42:08
  Rabbi Fred Klein: But religion basically says no. Part of being a religious individual, yes, you need that space to yourself. Yes. But you wanna give to the community. Wanna live together in the community and and the relationships you build.
• 42:21
  So I think that that's what's special about established religions actually. Yeah.
• 42:25
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: And we all need each other, we're all interconnected. There's a term in South Africa, it's called Ubuntu, which means I am because you are. When I realized that am not all that I am unless you're all that you are and because we are interconnected and intertwined together in this walk of life and so that's why for me, I think it's better to as much as possible break down barriers and build bridges because we have more in common than we do in not not having in common. So that's why I love speaking to different individuals from their different perspectives, different religions, different traditions because it it helps me see, listen, we really all still need each other.
• 43:10
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a quote and I I don't even remember right now and I'm sure I'll butcher it, but it says something, but the only way that we're gonna go far and get is we go together. Yeah. Exactly.
• 43:22
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: You can go faster
• 43:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: by yourself,
• 43:25
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: but you can go farther together.
• 43:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Together. Yeah. Alright. You said it
• 43:29
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: well. Yeah.
• 43:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: So in a previous conversation, Rabbi, you spoke to me and you said something about the problem that we're facing now is spiritual illiteracy. So I wanted to know if you could expand upon it, and Reverend, I want to know your take on that too.
• 43:47
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Sure. Well, the term actually came from a psychotherapist named Lisa Miller. But I think that we have great stories that we tell ourselves. And I think that very often in our generation, because there's this clear boundary between secular quote unquote and religious. So I think children are growing up in a world where they are denied any type of great narratives from our spiritual traditions, which I think give people a lot of resilience.
• 44:25
  So all of a sudden they're 20 years old and they reach a crisis in their life and they only have their own story. And sometimes even their family stories are not very rich because families seem to be very divided. If you come from a multi generational family and you're telling tales from generation to generation, and you hear the stories of your parents and your grandparents and your great grandparents, then you have a bigger story in which to place yourself. I think, as a Jewish person, I say my story begins with Abraham. I'm a descendant.
• 45:03
  I in Hebrew, we call Abraham Abraham Avinu. Abraham, my father. Right. Now he's not my father. He's my father, like, hundreds of generations ago, but no.
• 45:12
  He's my father. I'm part of a great story. Right. And so if I can link into that, that gives me a sense of purpose, sense of meaning, of resilience. When something happens, I'm gonna say, oh, this has happened before.
• 45:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 45:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: This is not the first time either me individually or our people have had challenges in history.
• 45:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 45:33
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so I think we draw upon that to give us strength. So that's what I meant that our generation is being denied. And I'm not saying teach a specific religion in a public school. I'm not saying that. But I think it's you know, it would be it would behoove us as a society to open up avenues where people actually explored the great religious narratives because they provide a sense of strength.
• 45:58
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Man, you said it perfectly. You know, it's funny in in our generations now, I'm even when I'm speaking about different stories in the Bible, our generations have no clue what I'm talking about. And so it's like, hey, we need to spend time to really retell those stories so that and like you just said, even in family, retell those stories and those traditions so you can hold onto that because if you don't someone said if you don't know your history, you're bound to relive it. Right. And so at least they wanna know what happened in the past.
• 46:34
  And so I think that's that's definitely important.
• 46:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: So how can we foster a more spiritual life for our children outside of just the storytelling and that sort of connected thread? And you said a little bit about why it matters, but maybe you can expand upon that.
• 46:50
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: So for me, one of the things I realize is some things are taught and other things are caught. My kids have and and there's a passage in the in the Old Testament says, train up a child in the way you should go. When he's old, won't depart. Now, we we use that as a promise. I don't I don't necessarily know if that's a promise, Rabbi, but I will say, I think the the part is important that we still train, we take that time, whether it is taught orally or written or they see our lives.
• 47:26
  One of the things my kids tell me is that they believe what they believe because they watched
• 47:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: me
• 47:33
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: and my wife.
• 47:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: A 100%.
• 47:34
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: And so people will see you and believe something more than what you say.
• 47:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm. A 100% I believe that. Because children don't listen to what you say, but they watch what you do.
• 47:48
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Absolutely.
• 47:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: A 100%.
• 47:50
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: They will.
• 47:52
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I totally agree. And I think one of the things that I think about a lot is when people ask the question, what do you want to be when you grow up? They're not asking, who do you want to be when you grow up? There's what do you want to do? How are you going to serve the economy?
• 48:11
  How are you going to be a productive member of society? I once asked a child, what do you want to do when you grow up? I want to do this. Why do you want to do this? I want to make a lot of money.
• 48:20
  Okay, now you've made a lot of money. What do you want to do? He says, Well, I want to enjoy myself. I said, Enjoy yourself to what end? And that was the end of it.
• 48:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: I
• 48:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: think one of the questions we should be asking our children is not what do you want to do, but who do you want to be in this I'm very interested in what kind of character do you want to be in this world? How do you want to be experienced in this world by others? Because as Reverend Johnson said, at the end of one's life, no one's taken the U Haul and bringing their things with them to the next world.
• 48:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: No one says, I wish I worked more.
• 49:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Carry We
• 49:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: do carry we're remembered.
• 49:02
  Rabbi Fred Klein: But as people of faith, we do carry our deeds into the next world.
• 49:05
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Our
• 49:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: deeds and that's when minister or rabbi gives a eulogy, they don't talk about how much money this person made. They might talk about how much this person gave to others, shared with others. That's our expression of people's values. So I think we really should be focused a lot on character cultivation, especially when children are young. Are you kind to your friends?
• 49:33
  What actions are you doing? If there's a kid that is not being included, what do you do? Yes.
• 49:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. I also think that goes back to what both of you said about leading by example. Yes. Because if you're not doing that in your life, then your children aren't learning that because they're not seeing it because you're not doing it.
• 49:49
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yes. One of the things that was most impactful is my father and my mother would always go and visit the sick. They would go to the hospitals, they would go to the nursing homes. I did not like it as a child but they would make me come and I would see how they would be compassionate and care for others. And I look back twenty years later, I'm like, I'm doing the same thing.
• 50:11
  And I'm like, and I just think that you see and you emulate what you see. And so, you know, for me, it is like you said, action, faith without action. And matter of fact, that's what James says in our tradition, faith without works is dead. So you could say you have faith, but if you have not done anything, that's really dead faith.
• 50:32
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Do you find that there's a demographic that is more spiritual in life? I mean, do young this is just throwing this out there. Do young people with children just don't have time to be more spiritual in their practice or maybe retired people have more time for spirituality in life? Is is there a demographic that you see?
• 50:56
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: That's an interesting question. Don't know.
• 51:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I don't personally, I think that it could happen at any age. I mean, there are times that are maybe more pitched. For example, when young adulthood, when people are trying to find their place in society, so they're more in a place where they're seeking.
• 51:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:20
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? What does my life mean?
• 51:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? And then maybe in their forties where they go through the midlife crisis where they say, okay. I had the kids. I had the family. I had the house.
• 51:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: They're seeking again.
• 51:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And now what? Right? Because I did the rat race. I did I did what I was supposed to do, what society tells me to do, and then I don't feel good.
• 51:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:39
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So then they start then they start, exploring new avenues. And, course, when people get older, then they don't have to be anything that they don't wanna be.
• 51:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:49
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I've done it all. I've had the family. I have the house. Right? I don't need to be around people that just bring me down.
• 51:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: Then they're looking at the last third of their life.
• 51:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's right. And then they're looking like, oh, I'm not living fifty more years. Maybe I'm living ten. Maybe I'm living twenty more years.
• 52:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: How do I make it meaningful?
• 52:07
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Exactly. So I think that there are times where spirituality and seeking may be more prominent, but I think that it should be ultimately an ongoing Continuous. I think a person in life this is the way I see myself and should be a seeker. We should always try to be seekers. Sometimes we're going to fail, and I include myself.
• 52:33
  Sometimes we're coasting, and I would include ministers and rabbis. I know this, working with a lot of people over many years, we also go through difficult times. Right. I think
• 52:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: We're human.
• 52:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That we're all human. Yeah. But we all are seeking those kind of higher truths in our lives.
• 52:51
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. And it just makes me think that when an individual comes to the end of themselves, they start seeking after something greater or should. Sometimes we're self seeking, self serving and sometimes you can get all of the money, you can get all the accolades. I remember this basketball player was saying, I can't remember who it was, but he was saying at the end of his career, he had like a $130,000,000 and the guy was asking him, you know, what do you do with your life after that? He said, I was so miserable.
• 53:26
  He said, I was just nothing to do. I no longer had basketball. From the time I was a teenager to now, just didn't have anything to do. I'm driving around. He said he was just driving around in the traffic of in LA traffic just trying to waste time.
• 53:41
  I said, man, that's someone that, you know, that's that's that's that shows you that it doesn't matter what you acquire or what you have and who you have. If if it's not if it's not something substantially greater than that moment or those materials, it's not gonna be sufficient. So, those individuals seek after that, that's greater than those things.
• 54:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Yeah. So, I think we've already answered it, but just does having a spiritual life deepen our faith?
• 54:17
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I believe it does.
• 54:18
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 54:19
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I would like to offer your listeners an exercise. I teach spiritual care volunteers and it says that every human being is created in the image of God. And we walk through our day and we interact probably with hundreds of people every day, many of us, if we thought and kept that idea front and center that I am now talking to a manifestation of God, That this person in front of me is a universe, not a person in a transaction, not a person that I need something from, which I might. There are different types of relationships in life, but this person is an image of God. How would that impact the interaction I have with another human being?
• 55:10
  Even a difficult conversation you might have with another person. How would that impact interactions? I think that kind of mindfulness in our society, I think is extremely important right now.
• 55:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Necessary.
• 55:27
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 55:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. I mean, we're living through a time of such division and hate, And I think people are forgetting that we are all creatures in the image of God. There's a Hasidic saying in the tradition that the world was created for me and yet I'm but dust of the earth. Are all fallible and vulnerable. Those two ideas have to be held simultaneously in interactions with all human beings.
• 55:58
  So I think a spiritual view of us, our community, our country right now, that is inclusive, not that I have the truth and you're a heretic, you're out. That I don't think is gonna be very helpful. But, that kind of spiritual awareness, I think, would be so helpful in terms of the healing of the rifts that our countries are is experiencing right now.
• 56:24
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. I agree. I agree. But, yes, I I do believe that your spirituality influences your faith. It has to.
• 56:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: So if someone was so busy and they had so much on their plate, what is the biggest takeaway you'd want them to know about spirituality?
• 56:45
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: So for me, I I would I would say about faith. What what I would say is what you believe ultimately determines how you behave and how you walk through life. There's a statement by, I don't know if you all heard the story about Walt Disney and how he built Disney World and and the day they had the grand opening, someone's looked and said, man, I wish Walt would have been here to see this. And the other person looked and said, he did see it. That's why it's why it's here.
• 57:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, yeah.
• 57:16
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: And so faith is believing in what you see so much that you're willing to walk it out until you see what you believe.
• 57:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beautiful.
• 57:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. I like what he said.
• 57:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. What he said. I agree. I agree. Is there anything we left out in this conversation?
• 57:36
  I'm so happy we did this episode. I'm so happy. Is there anything we left out that you want our listeners to know or anything you think we didn't cover?
• 57:46
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Just stay encouraged and continue to seek fulfillment through your faith.
• 57:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: Like that.
• 57:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I'd say, look at your life as a life of agency. That your life makes a difference and that you're beloved by God.
• 58:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: I like
• 58:07
  Rabbi Fred Klein: When that you're beloved by God and God believes in you, even if you're fallible like all of us, you do make a difference. And keep that in mind and see how that plays out in your daily interactions in the world. That spirituality is not necessarily only in a synagogue or a church, although I encourage everybody to join synagogues or churches, but spiritually happens in the daily interactions in our lives.
• 58:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Well said. Okay. So before I end, I like to do something with all of my guests. It's called Quickie Questions.
• 58:42
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Oh, wow.
• 58:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: You game? Let's do it. Okay.
• 58:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I guess so. What do
• 58:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: you personally practice daily? Just something you do for yourself.
• 58:52
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: You mean activity wise?
• 58:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Could be anything. Just something that you just do every day.
• 58:56
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I typically work out every day. Good.
• 59:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. I'd like to work out every day. I need to work out every day. But I mean, I go to synagogue every day. I I pray every day.
• 59:11
  And even if I don't feel it at every moment, I know that when the message is ready, when I'm ready to receive the message, I'm standing at attention.
• 59:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Ready.
• 59:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So I think that's really important to have a daily discipline like that, which is independent of my role because I don't work in a synagogue, so I just go for myself.
• 59:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah, that's your daily practice. What is the most difficult part of your profession and where do you find comfort?
• 59:41
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: So for me, I have a pretty large congregation, so I deal with problems every single day. I'm managing people, managing problems every single day.
• 59:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: So where do you find comfort?
• 59:56
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: So for me, I I have learned to just enjoy life. One of the things that I tell people is that I've buried so many people, I've seen so much death that it has taught me how to live. So I just enjoy every moment. I take nothing for granted.
• 1:00:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: I
• 1:00:18
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: tell people I love them every day. I try to forgive if there's someone that has hurt me. I try not to miss a moment to make sure that if any moment God calls me away from here, that I've done everything. I live full and die empty.
• 1:00:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. No, that's right. A 100%. That's it.
• 1:00:39
  Rabbi Fred Klein: What Reverend Johnson is kind of referring to is I think the challenge of compassion fatigue. Many experience, of and you could go through the motions. And I think it's really important for us We can't solve all the problems in the world.
• 1:00:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: That
• 1:00:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: same for every human being in your family, with your children, they're We want to fix everything. And there's a certain amount of brokenness in people and in the world that you can't fix at every moment. You can only do what you can do. Own the good things you can do in this life and let God work out all the rest. And so I try to stay with that mantra like I love it, man.
• 1:01:25
  Like Reverend Johnson, like, I like having a good time.
• 1:01:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 1:01:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: The past few years after COVID, I like rock and roll. I go on road trips and I listen to a lot of rock bands.
• 1:01:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love it.
• 1:01:36
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Okay? So why? Because I find it freeing and liberating and a sense of community and people that love music.
• 1:01:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes.
• 1:01:44
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Music's very uplifting for me. Yeah. My other life, I'm a rock musician. I've said that to many hair
• 1:01:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: and Yeah, music is super important to me as well.
• 1:01:58
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Maybe not like Bohemian, that kind of thing, but yeah. So I try to find times to celebrate with my wife, my kids, my family. I think that's really important to enjoy life and not to feel guilty that I'm not doing this. Yes.
• 1:02:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Yes. Got it. What do you consider your greatest blessing?
• 1:02:21
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: My family. Yeah. I've been with my wife since I was 14 and I'm 50. She'll be 50 on Wednesday, March 4.
• 1:02:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Happy birthday.
• 1:02:29
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: I'm taking her out of the country, guys. Oh, yeah. So and then I have, four beautiful kids and two son in laws. So Wow. That's sweet.
• 1:02:36
  So family has been like that has been my first priority in ministry.
• 1:02:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's a great blessing.
• 1:02:43
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Ditto. Ditto. My wife, my kids, my step kids. So I think that's I feel very fortunate.
• 1:02:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. The greatest blessing.
• 1:02:58
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It is. It totally is.
• 1:03:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. You may have cheated and seen one of my questions, but I was gonna ask you, what's the first concert you went to?
• 1:03:08
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You mean in the eighties?
• 1:03:10
  Melissa Shere Beek: I can beat you both on that one. So go ahead. Give
• 1:03:13
  Rabbi Fred Klein: it to me. Probably went to Billy Joel.
• 1:03:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, great one. Okay.
• 1:03:16
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Good. I got six row tickets with a girl that I had a crush on.
• 1:03:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, that's good. I like that one.
• 1:03:26
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It did work out like reverend Johnson.
• 1:03:28
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: It worked out for me.
• 1:03:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: First concert.
• 1:03:34
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: First concert. Wow. I think it was, you may not know these people, but have you ever heard of Babyface?
• 1:03:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes. Oh my god.
• 1:03:44
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Boys and Men? Yes. Yeah. So funny. They had a concert and somebody invited me to it.
• 1:03:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: I like it. Yeah. That's good.
• 1:03:53
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: Else? We left out? Concerts. No. We left out anything?
• 1:04:01
  Anything else we could do?
• 1:04:01
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: No. I think
• 1:04:02
  Rabbi Fred Klein: we covered everything in was
• 1:04:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: an excellent episode. I cannot Yeah. Thank you both enough. I'm so honored to have you both here. So excited.
• 1:04:12
  I've been waiting for this episode. I I feel so blessed that you were both here, so honored, so appreciative.
• 1:04:18
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Listen. I did podcast a few weeks ago, and it was nothing like this. This is amazing.
• 1:04:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: You had fun?
• 1:04:24
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: If all my podcasts will be like this, I will come anytime.
• 1:04:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, okay. Then then we have to have you back.
• 1:04:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So we'll have anytime.
• 1:04:29
  Melissa Shere Beek: You did? Oh, good. I'm so excited. I I had the best time. So, Steven, you have to tell us what you think later, but I thank you both.
• 1:04:36
  I really, really thank you both.
• 1:04:38
  Reverend Dr Theo Johnson: Oh, thank you. Thank you.
• 1:04:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: To our listeners, thank you so much. So grateful you are here. Keep listening. Keep learning. Keep laughing.
• 1:04:46
  Keep up with beak on being. Follow Beek on being on Instagram for the latest. To share thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or nominated guests, DM us. Want exclusive content, behind the scenes stories, and listener links? Subscribe.
• 1:04:59
  Listen to Beek on Being wherever you get your podcast. All episodes are automatically transcribed. Big shout out and a huge thank you to Steven Chan at Penthouse Studios. BeeK on Being was recorded at Penthouse Studios and is a proud member of the Penthouse Podcast Network. Follow beacon being on Instagram for the latest.
• 1:05:18
  To share ideas, thoughts, suggestions, or nominate a guest, DM us. Want exclusive content, behind the scenes stories, and listener links? Subscribe. Beek on Being was recorded at Penthouse Studios and is a proud member of the Penthouse Podcast Network.