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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger And The "Perfect Crime" Theory · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Brian
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Koberger was a criminology student and somebody that should have
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: known better when it comes to evidence left at the scene. However,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: somehow he left that sheath there with DNA on it.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And that sheath, as we all know, helped the police
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: put the pieces together and leave them directly to his doorstep. Well,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the question that people are asking now is, Did Brian
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Koberger leave that sheath on purpose? And if so, was
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: he trying to commit the perfect crime? Today we have
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: an article from Newsweek, and that's exactly what we're going
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to discuss. Headline, Brian Koberger was trying to commit the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: perfect crime. This article was authored by Kalita Rockman. A
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: man facing first-degree murder charges for the slaying of four
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students was trying to learn how to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: commit the perfect crime, a forensic psychiatrist told Newsweek. Brian
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Koberger was taken into custody by state police at his
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: parents' home in eastern Pennsylvania. During a press conference, Latah
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: County Prosecutor Bill Thompson said investigators believe Koberger broke into
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the student's home in Moscow with the intent to commit murder.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And there is no doubt that we have learned a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: lot more since this article was originally published on January 3rd.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And we have certainly learned a lot more about who
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger is, who he was, and what his mind state,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: if you will, was leading up to these murders. Considering
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: now that we're armed with the information that Brian Koberger
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: was in the midst of a tumultuous situation at work,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: He was losing his job and he eventually did end
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: up losing that job. So with all of that as context,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: when you look at something like this or a scenario
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: like this of him trying to commit the perfect crime,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it puts things in a little bit more perspective and
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it makes you wonder. It really makes me wonder what
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: he was up to and how that sheath was left
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: at that crime scene. I just have this feeling that
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: we're going to learn a lot more about that sheath
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: moving forward. And honestly, I find myself waffling back and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: forth almost on a daily basis about whether he left
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: it on purpose or if it was just an accident.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: The students, Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: were stabbed to death sometime in the early morning hours
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of November 13th. The women lived at the house and Chapin,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Kernodle's boyfriend, was visiting. two other female roommates who lived
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: in the three-story home, survived. Well, we now know also
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: that Kaylee Gonsalves was not living there at the time,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and she was already back living with her parents because
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: she was done with school. So it was only the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: four girls that were living there at that point. You
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: had Madison, you had Zanna, and then the two surviving roommates,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Dylan and Bethany. Those were the four that lived there
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: at the time, and now that we have more context,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and we have more knowledge about what went down, we're
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: able to clarify that. Kohlberger was a Ph.D. student and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: teaching assistant in the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: at Washington State University. He graduated from Northampton Community College
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania with an Associate of Arts degree in Psychology
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: in 2018. He then went on to receive a bachelor's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: degree from Pennsylvania's DeSalas University in 2020. and finished his
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: graduate studies there in June of 2022. At DeSalas University,
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  Speaker 1: Koberger was taught by Catherine Ramsland, a renowned forensic psychologist
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  Speaker 1: and an expert on serial killers. I'm making no media
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  Speaker 1: statements at this time, Ramsland told Newsweek on Monday when
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: asked about Koberger. Oh, you better believe she's going to
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: write a book, though. I can almost guarantee that Dr.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Catherine Ramsland, the same lady who worked with BTK, is
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: going to end up writing a book about Brian Koberger.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Forensic psychiatrist Carol Lieberman told Newsweek that she thinks Koberger's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: decision to study psychology and then criminology was because he
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: was trying to calm the demons inside of him that
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: were telling him to kill. But she said she believes
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: he was simultaneously trying to learn how to commit the
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: perfect crime. And it makes sense now when you look
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: at it with the information that we have, right? Now,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I ascribe to this scenario, but
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that it's something that we can't write off yet,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: and it's something that needs to be explored. Because Brian Koberger,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: as a criminology student, as a psychology student, as an
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: ardent fan of true crime in general, you would think
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: that he'd be smart enough not to leave the crime
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  Speaker 1: scene the way he did. So people are racking their
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: brains trying to fill in those blanks, and figure out
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  Speaker 1: why somebody who is allegedly educated in how to commit
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and solve crimes was so damn stupid while he was
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  Speaker 1: allegedly committing them. And that's something that hasn't made sense
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to me either, to be honest. He just strikes me
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  Speaker 1: as the smug kind of dude that would want to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: do something like this. And the more we learn about him,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and the more we learn about how he felt about women,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and how he was fired from that job, it all
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  Speaker 1: lines up. Jennifer Koffendaffer, a former FBI agent, told Newsweek
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  Speaker 1: that Koberger would have studied people who had already done
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the crimes he was likely dreaming about doing. And again,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to note that the first murders that BTK
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: was involved in, it was four people, a whole family,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the Otero family. Now, I don't think that Brian Koberger
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: expected to murder as many people as he did this night.
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  Speaker 1: It's my opinion that he didn't expect Kaylee to be there.
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  Speaker 1: And he thought that he was going to get in there.
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  Speaker 1: He was going to be able to do whatever he
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  Speaker 1: wanted to Madison. And when Kaylee was there, well, he
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: took his rage out on her. And then he was
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  Speaker 1: in such a state that when he left the room
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and he ran into Ethan and Zanna, well, we saw
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: the result there as well. But it's my guess and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: my hypothesis that Brian Koberger went there that night with
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the intention of only killing Madison. Now, I can't prove
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: that with facts and a whole bunch of evidence. But
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: when you start looking at how everything broke and the
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: fact that Kaylee wasn't even living there anymore, that Madison
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: was the one working at the Mad Greek, it just
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: seems that that is the most likely of scenarios. This
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: dude broke in here. And his plan was just the
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: one kill. He figured he'd be able to get away
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  Speaker 1: with that, get out of Dodge. There wouldn't be an
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: FBI presence. Sure, it would be a catastrophe and a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: nightmare for the community. But four murders, that puts it
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: in a whole different stratosphere. And that directly led to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: people like the FBI being involved. Do you really think
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: if it was one student that was murdered, there would
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: be this whole entire thing that we're seeing now? Even
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: though it would be just as tragic, there wouldn't be
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: all of this media attention on it. And my guess
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is that Brian Koberger, he didn't account for the other
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: murders here, and he certainly didn't account for all of
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the attention that they were going to draw. How interesting
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to be able to relate closely to somebody that's following
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: your own urges. And then also to gain that cloak,
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  Speaker 1: if you will, of knowing some of the pitfalls to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: try to avoid to not get caught, she said. Well,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: that didn't work out so well for him. And like
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I just said a minute ago, I think a lot
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of that has to do with his plans being thrown
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: off by Kaylee being there in that bed with Madison.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: But Kofendaffer added that she believes there is no such
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: thing as the perfect crime. especially with the advancement and
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  Speaker 1: DNA and where we stand now. You leave a trace
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  Speaker 1: of yourself no matter where you go, and you take
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  Speaker 1: traces of where you've been with you. She is not wrong.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: With the way technology is now, getting away with a
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: crime is very difficult, especially a crime like this. If
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  Speaker 1: you think you're going to get away with going into
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  Speaker 1: someone's home and murdering four people, and then you draw
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the attention of the FBI, well, you have not been
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: paying attention because that's not going to happen. DNA evidence
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  Speaker 1: played a key role in identifying Kohlberger as a suspect
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  Speaker 1: in the killings. A law enforcement official told the Associated Press,
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  Speaker 1: the officials were able to match his DNA genetic material
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  Speaker 1: recovered during the investigation. And we all know how that
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  Speaker 1: broke now. But the purpose of this episode was to
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about Brian Kohlberger, the sheath,
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  Speaker 1: and what his motivations might have been. Can you imagine
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  Speaker 1: if he did leave that sheath there on purpose? How
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  Speaker 1: much he's kicking himself now, considering that sheath was a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: huge part of the investigators finding him? In his head,
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  Speaker 1: he's thinking, well, I'm not in CODIS. I've never committed
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  Speaker 1: crimes before. If I leave this sheath here, maybe, just maybe,
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  Speaker 1: it'll throw them off the track and think it's somebody else.
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  Speaker 1: Could that be his plan? Or was that the plan
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  Speaker 1: that he was going to use? We don't know yet.
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  Speaker 1: But I have to tell you, the more I think
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: about it, the more it seems logical. But we always
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that with an evolving case
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: such as this, as information comes in, things can change drastically.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And we've already seen that in this case several different times.
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  Speaker 1: So I expect to see it, more honestly, moving forward.
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  Speaker 1: But what do you folks think? Do you think that
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger left the sheath there on accident because he
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: was panicked and he was in the middle of doing
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  Speaker 1: what he was doing? Or do you think him leaving
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  Speaker 1: the sheath there was for a much more sinister purpose?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Shoot me some emails and let me know. All right, folks,
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  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with the episode can be found
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: in the description box.