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ou & Your Cat's Dental Health Matters with Dr. Emily Stein · Back In The Closet - Two Crazy Cat Ladies

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OK, so now let's get to the podcast.
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With wine, always with wine. I'm Jay, I'm Adrian, and
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together we are there's. 2 Crazy cat ladies.
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I'm going to cut you. I think I just peed.
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Buckle up, we're back in the closet.
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Welcome to another episode of Back in the Closet with the 2
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Crazy Cat Ladies. And we were super excited today
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to be joined once again by none other than Doctor Emily Stein of
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Teeth, Teeth Health and Life. And yes, and and the the one and
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only scientist like Nerd Genius when it comes to when it comes
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to dental health. But today we're actually not
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just talking about our cats. She is actually going to be
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schooling us on ourselves and our cats, the whole family and
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how they're tied together. So we're super excited for this
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doctor. Emily, thank you so much for
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joining us again. I.
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Have all the butterflies. It's been one year since we were
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able to launch T phone shop a lot, right?
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Can you believe us? This is like our anniversary
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podcast. Yeah.
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Anniversary it's. Not our shelves.
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And it is just, it's one of the most proactive, important things
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that we can do for anyone who doesn't already know you and
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love you and learn from so much from you.
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Can you give a short introduction?
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Who, who, who are you? And tell us how you're taking
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the world. Yes, I'm Emily, come from the
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Midwest, Iowa undergraduate microbiology, immunology, and I
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accidentally double majored in anthropology.
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I really nerd it out on anthro and then went to Berkeley
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undergrad or PhD in microbial biology, where I studied like
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the social beings that microbes are and what happens when they
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get hit with insults such as gamma radiation or antiseptics
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or antibiotics or nutrient deprivation.
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How they work together to survive that stress.
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And I actually studied oncogenes in bacteria, believe it or not.
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Oncogenes. Onco is that like?
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Cancer causing genes I know. Oh, so that's like the
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oncologist? Yeah, so basically I was
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studying like the the intersection between
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unicellularity and multicellularity in bacteria,
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because they go through developmental cycles too.
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And they're very social organisms.
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They kind of swarm together. They they predate on worms and
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stuff and the soils. You are using big words tonight,
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girl. They hunt, they go hunting, they
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go hunting and poo poo poo, you know?
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Wow, this is something that I love so much about you.
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You really take some really complicated stuff that's so
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important for us to understand and you make it, you make it
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understandable and give us like the, the, the tools to be
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empowered. It's it's really a remarkable
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thing. Like I don't know many super
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nerds that are able to speak. To dumb it down for us dumbos
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like you do. I go Pew Pew Pew.
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I see your little one in the background.
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That's our Annie Bell, who loves her teeth.
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He's her babe. Yeah, she loves it.
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OK, so let's get seated on this conversation.
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And so then I went to Stanford and then I nerded out in
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neuroechrine immunoxis and rheumatology.
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Oh yeah, that's right, rheumatology.
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Because UC Berkeley and then Stanford.
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No biggie. Wait, no, you're from another
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school, right? Well, I went to Community
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College for two years before I went to Iowa.
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So I I was in school from the time I was like kindergarten to
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32 years old. Oh my God.
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And then you got out and you're like, OK, let's do this.
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Well, and your grandma. Your grandma.
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Oh yeah. Grandma Kamala?
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Yeah, my grandma, she had a stroke actually, one day.
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She was like my bestie. And we would play online
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Scrabble all the time when I was when I first moved back to when
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I moved away to California. And that's how we stayed in
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touch every day. And, you know, they had the chat
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on the sides we'd like, we'd check in with each other and
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she'd make a move. And then before I knew it, I'd
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be losing my, my shirt on these games.
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And one day she didn't play when I was at Stanford and it, my mom
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called me and basically she'd had a, a stroke from a tooth
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extraction. And now we know from examining
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like I'm talking over 50,000 and 40 some thousand different
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Medicaid and Medicare claims. We know that there is a
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association between bad cardiovascular problems like
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heart attack or stroke if you get a tooth pulled or a dental
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implant placed. Yeah.
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And that risk lasts for weeks. And it doesn't normalize back to
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baseline until six weeks after or six months.
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Excuse me? So it's like a long progression.
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That's because you create a massive wound.
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If you have disease, disease causing microbes go into the
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bloodstream. They'll either wind up in, in
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the head like my grandmother in the heart or in the joints.
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And so we need to be mindful of what's growing in the in the
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mouth because it can go into the kidneys, which is for cats a big
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thing, going to the liver, which for dogs and cats and other
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places as well. Well, let's kind of start there
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because I feel like, you know, Jay was saying the other day,
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you know, we've got doctors, we've got if we've got something
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wrong with her mouth, we go to the dentist.
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If we got something wrong with her heart, we go to the
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cardiologist. We got right, we got cancer, we
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go to the oncologist and and yet the mouth is so I think you and
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and incredible Rita Hogan call the mouth the gateway to health,
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right? So can you talk a little bit?
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You're talking about bacteria, you're talking about tooth
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extractions. Can you talk a little bit about
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just the oral microbiome in general?
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Like I think people think of, you know, their mouth is like,
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oh, you got to brush your teeth. You don't want bad breath.
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You know, they're not necessarily thinking about how
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the health of the mouth impacts the rest of the body and, and
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how, how do you even take care of your mouth other than
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brushing your teeth? And when it comes to our cats,
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that's really hard. For good luck brushing teeth.
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Yes, I've actually, we actually have some customers that brush
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their cat's teeth. Yeah, we have a lot of community
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members that are able to do it as well.
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Yeah. If you get them started young,
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you actually like, yeah, it's not that difficult to do.
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If you get them started young, it's when we don't learn, once
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we don't, you know, once we know better, we can do better.
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But, well, a lot of us don't know better until they're grown
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enough, and then it's like, no. I know.
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So, yeah, like, you know, the microbes outnumber us.
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It doesn't matter if you're a salamander or a human or a cat
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or a dog. The microbes are going to coat
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every single surface inside and outside possible.
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Like the sperm and the egg are coated with their own microbes
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and then they fuse and microbes are a part of that fertilization
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event. If that just wasn't expecting.
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The birds and the bees today this.
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Is I am a bit of wine, a little bit, you know, whatever.
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No. And so, so they're, they're
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always there. They're part of the equation.
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The mouth, it is home to for humans way more than we thought.
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It's quoted at 700 species on average.
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But in our big public health study we just recently finished,
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it was over 1400. Wow.
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And. Yeah, and the metabolites in the
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mouth ranked up words of inhuman ranked up words of like 3 to
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4000. Wow.
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And third of those, we have no idea what they are.
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They're very novel. I bet that makes you excited.
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Oh, yeah, I just like I, I, yeah, if I could focus on that,
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I would love to, but I can't be focused on business stuff and I
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can't nerd out too much these days.
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But it's just like, it's so exciting.
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It's the frontier. And we're, you know, now we're
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linking around, you know, hit or miss around 100 different
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diseases that are systemic diseases that actually originate
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in the mouth. Wow.
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And that's, and that's literally just for humans.
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Yeah, and cats, we know CKD, kidney disease is definitively
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linked to, and joint problems, cognitive issues and behavior
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and neurostimulatory behavior issues are linked to the mouth.
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Yeah, I mean, you, you would think like when like we brush
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our teeth every day, multiple times a day for many of us and
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our cats, you know, they're, they're they just eat their food
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and do their do their thing. But yeah, when it, when you're
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talking about like the systemic like we are.
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I was just writing in our new book.
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I was just writing a section on arthritis and, and the, you
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know, the statistics when it comes to dental health and it
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comes to statistics for arthritis, 90% of cats by the
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age of 10 have some form of arthritis and it's, and it's
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like 60% / 6 or something. And the same, same type of
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statistics come with dental disease, right?
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I mean, but like 90% by the age of 770% by the age of three.
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And then you look at kidney disease and now it's like, I
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think one in every three cats are going to end up with kidney
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disease. So it so it definitely
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correlates for, you know, for us that that understand those
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statistics that that deal with cats and diseases every day.
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Yeah, I mean, honestly, a cavity is just, it's like
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osteoarthritis. OK, explain.
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Well, you get like a, you know, you get a wound in your tooth so
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it demineralizes and you get what's called a carry carious
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lesion. The dentist call it that, but
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it's like a weak enamel or missing enamel.
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And so then the microbes start to eat into the dentin and
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stuff. And so that's a big infection in
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the tooth. You get similar things we've
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seen in joints, well, arthritic joints and knees and shoulders
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and stuff. OK, back to the cats for a
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second. Do you find in your, in your
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research, in your experience that cats are particularly
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susceptible to inflammation and parallel disease?
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Like, is that, is it just? Well, there's resorptions.
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I mean, yeah, like cats. Resorptive lesions are a big
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thing for cats. We just treated a snow leopard
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with resorptive lesions actually.
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Really. And, and you know what that like
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everybody that I've asked, nobody knows why I, I have, I
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have one person, a zoologist that I spoke with that I, I off
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camera. And she has a theory that it has
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something to do with mineral, mineral imbalance, but.
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Well, yeah, I can see that. But there's so many theories.
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But no one's studying resortive lesion biology.
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They just pass. They just examine the pathology
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of it. So they'll cut out the tissue
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and look at it under the scope and stain it with different
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things and then call it, this is, you know, blah, blah, blah,
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hyper keratinized blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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You know, and but what does that mean?
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And what's the 'cause, you know? So it's, it's a, it's a
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manifestation, but there's an underlying cause.
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Right. Yeah.
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And we think it's the wrong kind of microbes doing really bad
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things in a an environment where the tissue is malnourished and
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that might lead to susceptibility.
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My hypothesis based on our research.
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Well, we should get together and study that sometime because I
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would love. I cannot stand it when we have
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all these idiopathic issues when it comes to our cats and
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everybody's just like, oh, well, it's probably this or nobody
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knows. And this one is like the world's
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worst to me because the probably I can live with because I can be
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like, oh, OK, well, we could address these probably and see
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if it helps. But the whole like nobody knows.
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It's just, it's just a thing I can't stand.
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Even the the feline immune system is very understudied, you
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know, and that's like a big driver of a lot of a lot of
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response, like how healthy a cat is, is literally as strong as
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its immune system and is well balanced as its immune system.
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Because the immune system stays on constantly.
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You're going to wind up with chronic inflammatory diseases,
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lots and lots of joint problems, kidney problems, probably
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central nervous system issues as well.
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Not, you know, things. Not just in the mouth.
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Yeah, and that's what we're dealing with.
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OK, let's get to the subject. No, yeah, that's good.
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Sorry, Sorry guys. We, I, I, I love Doctor Emily so
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much. Like I, I could just like, sit
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and listen to her talk and like question, pick her brain
13:22
forever. But I want to pick your brain
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about this subject because you only talked to us for like 1/2 a
13:28
second on a Zoom a couple weeks ago and said just kind of in
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passing that that our dental health effects, our cats dental
13:38
health. And I was like, there's a
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connection. And yeah, and that there's a
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connection. And I was like, OK, let's talk
13:43
about that because that is like super interesting.
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And I don't know how it works but please tell us.
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Yeah. So you know how your cat
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constantly, well, my cats used to just constantly lick or just,
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you know, preen themselves and lay around and then rub them,
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rub themselves against you, particularly when you're in bed.
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And they'll just like completely, you know, pancake
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you and they're spreading their flora onto your face.
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And when you go nuzzle them and you're spreading your flora onto
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their fur, you're doing a transfer.
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And it's, so it's a, it's a reciprocal transfer and sharing
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of the microbes. So you wind up with a, each
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person has their own unique fingerprint like that, right?
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And then so there's a transfer there.
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So with each lick, like with with with a human kiss, there's
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an exchange of about a million microbes.
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Oh wow, a dry kiss, not a wet kiss.
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A dry kiss. Who wants a dry kiss?
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Wow. I can think of it a few times.
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So if you want to think about it like that, then imagine like my
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dog when he just like, you know, wants to come and say hi to me.
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He'll literally he's been, he's learned that the mouth is, that
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is where you, how you welcome people.
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And I'm just like, don't, don't kiss anybody else.
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Don't kiss anybody else, you know, because I don't want
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anybody else's germs. Yeah.
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So but there's this massive exchange.
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And so we each have our own unique microbiome, including in
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the mouth. And that can shift based on
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who's living in the household because the household has, now
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we are understanding the household has its own collective
15:29
microbiome as well. And so if you get new, let's say
15:34
you rescue a new Kitty and that Kitty has massive gingivitis,
15:39
which some do and they come into the household, you're going to
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start to see transfer, horizontal transfer of some of
15:45
those microbes into family members mouths or other kitty's
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mouths or dog's mouths and vice versa.
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So are you saying that it's possible if one cat she is just
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on point tonight? She's so cute.
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She's awesome. She is awesome if if you know,
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say for example, Annie was the newbie in our family.
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We had four other cats at the time.
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If she had severe periodontal disease, it's possible that she
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could transmit that to our other cats.
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Yeah, the microbes are infectious, Really.
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And. Us and so it's it's basically
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something that's that's transferable like I could I
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could be like I have gingivitis from my cat.
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Yeah, actually very much so. And we actually, we have,
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believe this or not, we have dental hygienist referring teeth
16:44
to their human patients not to take, but to give to their pets
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to stop the cycle because they'll bounce back and forth.
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Oh my gosh, so everybody that. More reason to get your dental
16:59
in February, guys. Yes, yes.
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So what? I didn't realize it was like
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that that. Yeah, you can share cavity
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causing microbes. You can you can share gingivitis
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causing microbes, gum disease associated microbes, oral cancer
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associated microbes. No way.
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Wow. And so those are just like
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literally around our house. Like if you were to come over
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with your like microscope, you could be like, let me, let me
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tell you what kind of microbes you have in your house.
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And you my next Gen. sequencing. Look.
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Inside my microwave. That would be awesome.
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That would be awesome. Oh my God, that would be a
17:50
whole. That would be a whole thing.
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But you would be able to see like if we have infectious.
17:56
Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, it's in what's
18:02
really unfortunate is that the the narrative that dentists and
18:07
veterinarians and veterinarian dentists are taught is that it's
18:11
disease is only driven by like a few subsets of microbes.
18:15
And that's our findings fly in the face of that because it's
18:18
really the the collective that are are contributing to the
18:25
situation, not just one in particular.
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Because you can have, let's say Porphyromonas gingivalis in your
18:31
mouth. And if you don't have any signs
18:33
of disease, right? Porphyromonas gingivalis is
18:36
associated with gum disease, with Alzheimer's, pancreatic
18:42
cancer, colorectal cancer, ovarian cancer, cervical cancer,
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endometriosis, a bunch of stuff. It's very, it's very, it really
18:52
upsets the immune system. Oh wow.
18:54
OK. It's very hyperactive when it's
18:57
in an excitable state. When it's in a more chill state,
19:00
like surfer dude type, it's not going to.
19:02
It's not associated with disease, and it depends on what
19:05
its neighbors are doing, who they are, what they're doing,
19:08
and how they're interacting. OK, so talking about the
19:12
collective then, because it's been a year, I think since since
19:17
we've talked and we have a whole lot of new people on now.
19:20
And I want I want you to talk a little bit about the entire,
19:23
because you what you just said is so true as far as it's the
19:26
collective. It's not like, oops, there was
19:28
a, you know, we forgot it to brush a tooth.
19:30
And so now we have some kind of dental disease in in our cats.
19:34
Can we talk about the microbiome of the mouth?
19:36
Like what that, because it's the hole is what you taught us is
19:39
that it's the hole. It's not just, you know, the
19:42
parts. Yeah, it's really is.
19:45
It's like it's the missing piece for cell service.
19:48
Team. Or, or it's like, you know, it's
19:51
like it's, it's a big contributor to our health status
19:55
and they're secreting things 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
20:00
They don't stop. And what they're doing is
20:03
literally driving neuroendocrine, immune function,
20:09
tissue health. You know, they spread through
20:12
our face into our brain. There were just like a walking
20:16
Petri dish that they can mobilize and leave one tissue
20:21
and go systemically and go to another tissue.
20:23
We're finding through various different mechanisms, they can,
20:26
some can travel through the nervous system, obviously the
20:30
central, the peripheral and, and bigger veins and venules and you
20:36
know, the circulation. But some can actually invade our
20:39
own tissue and spread cell to cell kind of like Listeria does,
20:44
which is really cool. And that's what Porphyromonas
20:45
can do. So it can literally invade 1
20:48
cell and then spread all the way around your gum tissue.
20:54
I mean I. Mean it's.
20:55
Arguable how cool that is. Like super cool, scary as heck,
21:00
but super cool. OK.
21:02
I see that there's a lot of questions coming in.
21:05
Can I ask a couple questions as we go because this is a good
21:07
one. We're talking about human
21:09
health, and whoever asked Stephanie, we affectionately
21:12
call her Hoopler. She said human question.
21:14
I'm curious what you think about a dental hygienist telling me
21:17
that if I get periodontal disease that you can never get
21:20
rid of it. I thought that was super
21:21
pessimistic. Is that true?
21:24
No, it's not true. Why?
21:26
Why would a dental hygienist say that then?
21:28
Well, because the old school products on the market don't
21:33
treat the disease because they're going after zapping it
21:39
with harsh chemicals and you're just annihilating any good guys
21:42
remaining in the mouth. And so the bad guys are really
21:45
and good and bad is always, you know, it's, I'm trying to
21:48
simplify it, but it's much more nuanced than that.
21:51
But literally, you're encouraging the growth of the
21:54
guys that are causing disease by zapping in with harsh chemicals
21:58
and, and, and really harsh, let's call it molecular
22:02
sledgehammers or, you know, big things because they're going to
22:06
react even bigger and they're going to become more resistant.
22:09
And So what we're doing is just quietly nudging them into a
22:13
better space, better behavior, you know, and that's the better
22:16
way to go, 'cause then you're not eliciting what are called
22:19
their survival mechanisms. Where they?
22:22
Get where they can hyper mutate and then you're creating new
22:24
things you. Know right OK, so let's so let's
22:28
talk about that because this is what doctor Emily Stein has come
22:31
up with the T for life product, which is in a powder form.
22:35
Could you explain a little bit about why you came up with this
22:39
and what it does in the mouth versus and the human product
22:44
too? Because she because they also
22:45
have human they have it for dogs and they have it for humans as
22:48
well. What it does in the mouth to to
22:52
be the good guy and and to restore microbiome.
22:56
Yeah. So what we found in our research
22:59
was, sadly, humans, dogs and cats in particular, we're eating
23:05
too many processed carbohydrates in our treats, foods, whatever,
23:09
even if on a raw diet, believe it or not, there are microbes
23:13
can take certain kinds of molecules like nutrients and
23:17
turn them back into glucose through gluconeogenesis.
23:21
Glucose new making of in Latin and so they basically can take
23:27
like figure out so many ways to make their starter starters.
23:33
It's like they want that. Let's call it a Mountain Dew
23:37
equivalent, you know, supercharged, easy to burn, grow
23:41
fast, the party, party, party, right?
23:45
And So what we found is a way to curb that eating behavior by
23:52
putting them on a little keto diet.
23:54
So we're basically saying, no, ignore the sugar, focus, focus,
24:00
focus on the protein in that mouth and degrade that instead
24:04
because you're going to have, they're going to poop out much
24:07
better by products that are actually better and more
24:10
beneficial for us cats in particular, if that makes sense.
24:17
Can we talk about who's doing the pooping?
24:19
The bacteria. I just want to clarify.
24:22
That yeah, yeah, yeah. Just so if you guys haven't
24:24
joined us before, Doctor Emily likes to talk about how the
24:28
microbes poop. I just want to buy microbes all
24:31
the time. Yes.
24:32
You do, but that's what makes it so helpful is that you really
24:35
do. Then we can better understand it
24:36
so. That's really what what
24:39
metabolism is, is microbes pooping.
24:41
We absorb their poop and then we eat that.
24:46
Oh, uh huh. In the mouth, all from hole to
24:51
hole. From hole to shining hole I.
25:01
Feel like this podcast is going South?
25:03
No, it's not. No, it's not if I'm.
25:05
On I, I I will wind up taking it anywhere.
25:09
So I love you so much. I, I'm surprised ask this
25:12
question and I don't know what this is, but I'm gonna assume
25:14
that that your brain does. So I'm surprised that we rescued
25:17
our senior cat at 13 years old. First of all, bless you for
25:20
rescuing the senior. When we got him, he had some bad
25:24
periodontal disease. He has feline alveolar ostitis
25:29
2. Is this something that
25:32
correlates with their dental health?
25:35
Yeah. So is it osteomyelitis or
25:39
osteomyositis or? LVL.
25:43
AL what ALVEOLAR is explained earlier?
25:52
OK, so alveolar is bone, a type of bone And so basically mass
26:05
cells live everywhere and mass is it?
26:09
It's, so I'm not reading it. So I'm guessing it's there's
26:12
mass cells that are infiltrating the alveolar bone.
26:17
There's microbes that live in the alveolar bone too.
26:20
So especially if they're pathogenic, like there's a
26:22
microbe called Villanella that loves to live in our bones.
26:26
And if it's unhappy, it can really 'cause degradation like
26:31
osteomyelitis or osteonecrosis, which is basically the bone
26:36
dying. Oh my God.
26:39
So you get basically the bone gets thinner and thinner and
26:42
thinner and it, it starts to pit and stuff like that.
26:46
And that happens as we age and most, most mammals, particularly
26:51
if you bite a lot, like I sleep and I bite right here.
26:53
So I, this is a problem for me and I have to worry about that
26:57
because you're, because if you, if you clench, you actually
27:01
stimulate the activation of immune cells and these cells
27:06
called osteoclasts, which breakdown bone because you're
27:09
constantly rebuilding bone and breaking it down in a healthy
27:13
way. It's balanced, but when it's
27:14
unhealthy, you're getting too much breakdown.
27:17
Yeah, I'm a clincher too. Yeah, I was going through a
27:21
really stressful time and had to end it.
27:22
Ended up at a dental specialist and they sent me for a biopsy
27:26
because I had like some bone growing out of my gums on the
27:29
inside of my. Bone Spur.
27:34
It wasn't bone spur. Out on a live.
27:36
And it came out on a live like this.
27:38
I was just talking about it and I was like, the guy said that.
27:41
He. Said that it's OK, that it's
27:43
fine, that it's not answer, don't need to worry about
27:45
anything and that and that it will fall out on its own.
27:48
And then she's talking. I'm like Luca.
27:50
Fell. Out.
27:52
OK, OK, so I want to go back to, to, to your product and the
27:56
microbiome, right? So I want to talk about how this
27:59
product helps our cat's dental health just in general, right?
28:02
Like how this product helps our cat's dental health and then how
28:07
we might be able to like what we need to do to to pay attention
28:12
to our own or what products we need to use to help our own
28:16
dental health. So the whole family and all
28:19
those little pooping microbes are not pooping everywhere and
28:23
like spreading poop. Good change.
28:26
Want to spread good poop, not spread disease?
28:29
Yeah, let's talk about the good poop versus the bad poop.
28:31
Let's talk about that. Let's talk about poop.
28:34
Yeah, so it's kind of like that song.
28:37
Let's talk about sex, baby. You know, it's like, let's talk
28:39
about poop. Let's.
28:40
Talk about poop, baby. I mean, I'm.
28:42
Crazy. So let's.
28:44
Go OK. Yeah.
28:45
So every cell in our body excretes waste products, right?
28:49
That's literally pooping. And then the accumulation of
28:51
that is literally feces. And most in in the majority of
28:55
feces, believe it or not, is dead microbes, dying microbes or
28:58
microbes that are living and hanging out there with combined
29:02
with fibers and food particles. And so in cats, the feces look
29:07
different right, than dogs usually than humans, right?
29:11
And a lot of that is due to the anatomy but and Physiology, but
29:14
it's also due to who's living in their gut and the diet because
29:17
diet drives who's living in the mouth and who's living in the
29:20
gut. OK, so cats theoretically need
29:25
to be eating a lot more protein than anything else.
29:31
I do like them to eat green things too.
29:36
Yep, but they should not be eating much carbohydrate.
29:41
They can handle some fats too. But the kinds of microbes that
29:48
they will encounter in flesh and animal proteins or insects, for
29:55
instance. Or living microbes living on
29:58
grasses, right? Or plants, that's a different
30:02
kind of a inoculum for the mouth and their gut, which is really
30:06
important. So if it's a kibble fed cat boy,
30:10
you'd see a complete change and shift in what the microbes, who
30:14
they are and what they're doing. And you see in the poop the
30:18
stinky, smelly poop versus less smelly, right?
30:22
Right. And you'll see a shift in the
30:25
immune markers as well, right? Yeah, that is a big deal.
30:28
So when it comes to teeth, you add this powder to the food and
30:33
what? Or a lake pad, or you know,
30:36
whatever, whatever works. Or the OR the water dish.
30:39
We add it to the water and the food.
30:40
Our cats really love it in their water.
30:42
But we, we, we put it in their mouth, right?
30:45
And what do? What does it do?
30:47
What is it made of and what does it do?
30:50
Yeah. So 2 pronged approach.
30:52
First prong, I feel like we're doing charades.
30:55
First prong is we are literally giving the microbes A Heisman
31:00
and saying you cannot eat carbohydrate, so stop eating
31:04
carbohydrate. We're going to plug you up.
31:07
And then they're freaking out because most of the microbes in
31:09
the mouth like to have carbohydrate because that's the
31:11
easiest thing for them to eat. And so then instead we're giving
31:15
him a carrot saying eat vitamin B6 and eat this amino acid
31:21
instead. So putting them on this little
31:23
keto. So I'm going to break this
31:25
microbes are thinking, OK, I'll switch gears because I'm
31:28
resilient and durable. And I, you know, most the
31:32
majority of health associated microbes and in cats in
31:35
particular, a lot of Clostridia species and microbes and that
31:38
need to have at the mouth and the gut and Pepto Streptococcus
31:41
C acne's needs to be a little quite low, but needs to be
31:44
there. These guys don't necessarily
31:48
desire carbohydrates much. In healthy, healthy cats, what
31:52
you'll see is an expansion of the microbial community the that
31:57
ecosystem in in a much more diverse repertoire that's very
32:02
carbohydrate heavy. In cats that get any kind of
32:06
kibble or any kind of grain, anything, even if it's in an
32:09
enrichment 2 or whatever or a treat, they're going to start to
32:14
see a big shift in cats because they're more sensitive than dogs
32:18
and humans. And they, and these microbes
32:21
kind of populate too, right? So like we're giving temptations
32:25
treats. We might be feeding the best
32:26
diet, but we're still giving them temptations treats which
32:29
are full of carbohydrates and like highly ultra processed
32:34
ingredients. Then then the the microbes are
32:38
like, yeah, yeah, yeah. The bad ones, right, are like,
32:40
yeah, yeah, yeah, you can eat those.
32:42
And then they're, they're repopulated, They're
32:45
procreating. Yeah.
32:47
So what we're using in is this is the powder and.
32:52
Don't snip it up your nose. I know I just, we just
32:57
transported a couple of kilograms on a flight to
33:00
Australia recently and the, the gentlewoman transporting them
33:05
was like, I hope I don't get. So we sent her with appropriate,
33:09
you know, paperwork and stuff like that.
33:11
But no. So it's a non non fermentable
33:14
fiber. So it's a fiber that microbes
33:16
can't break down and it literally passes through the GI
33:19
tract uncut. So they can't even process.
33:22
It doesn't get turned into acid because when microbes eat carbs,
33:27
they make a ton of acid and stinky molecules.
33:30
That usually causes leaky gums, leaky gut, and upsets the immune
33:36
balance in the mouth and downstream.
33:39
Yeah, OK. OK.
33:41
And then the vitamin B6 and the arginine are working in concert
33:45
and the microbes are ripping up using that vitamin B6 in their
33:50
cell body even, you know, and they're then ripping apart that
33:55
arginine and they're making things like that wind up being
33:59
nitric oxide and things like that, which help oxygenate the
34:03
tissue. And that chases away the
34:06
porphyromonasis and and other kinds of anaerobes that are
34:10
really facilitating that festering disease below the gum
34:14
line. OK, All right, so because we
34:19
just met with Doctor Katie Kangas last week.
34:23
Yeah. I love.
34:24
Her, and she was talking about how important it is, just
34:27
talking about the do's and don'ts of dentals, but she was
34:29
talking about how important it is that, you know, we look at,
34:33
and some conventional veterinarians just kind of old
34:35
school too, though, they just look at the, the plaque or the
34:38
tartar and, and that the, that you could have, she said you can
34:43
have a lot of plaque and tartar and be completely healthy under
34:47
that gum line, or you could have no plaque and tartar and be
34:51
completely unhealthy underneath that gum line.
34:53
So it's what's underneath the gum line that that you really
34:57
need to be looking at and you need to be addressing.
34:59
And she she is a a huge proponent for tea for your
35:03
product because it goes in there and it addresses the whole, the
35:07
body, the the mouth as a whole, the microbiome of the mouth as a
35:10
whole and and actually rebuild. So we're we're talking, you're
35:14
putting the good guys into our cats mouths with this product so
35:18
that the bad guys are then. Yeah, yeah.
35:24
So you, you inherently every single dog cat.
35:27
I haven't found a mouth that doesn't have some good guys
35:32
present. They just might be beaten down
35:36
and smashed down and oppressed by the overpowering microbes
35:41
that are driving the disease process.
35:44
And so all this is doing is giving the microbes a reboot in
35:48
the mouth and basically shifting it from a disease associated
35:52
ecosystem and environment towards a more balanced
35:56
ecosystem that where you're seeing the immune markers and
36:00
inflammation and and leakiness go way down.
36:04
You're rebuilding a population that normally should exist in
36:07
the mouth. So weren't this is not a
36:09
probiotic. Probiotics are really hard to
36:12
get them going and to get them to work in the mouth because
36:15
they need a gestational period to really get up and go and
36:18
grow. And so that's why they're better
36:20
for gut health, not necessarily oral health.
36:23
And so the best way to really tackle that is we're working
36:26
right in the mouth, in that cat's mouth.
36:28
And we're really re rebooting that ecosystem to get the good
36:32
guys to really start to grow up and start to naturally overtake
36:36
and oppress the the harmful ones again.
36:38
OK. And you're also doing studies,
36:40
doing more and more research all the time.
36:43
But your, your studies are, are showing that the, that it's not
36:47
just anymore, it's not just that it's rebuilding the microbiome
36:50
of the mouth, but it's also affecting the microbiome
36:53
downstream. Downstream, yes, we finished a
36:57
zoo study recently in gorillas, orangutans and snow leopards.
37:02
And it was a case controlled study.
37:04
So there was a snow leopard with healthy dental profile.
37:10
I mean, she has other issues, but her, her mouth is great.
37:15
And then for the, the male companion, he's, he's a mess.
37:22
He's had 6 teeth pulled from resorptive lesions and he's got
37:27
a lot of gut issues as well. And so we worked with a local
37:31
zoo here at Como Park Zoo in St. Paul, MN and they we did a study
37:37
for 12 weeks and we showed really nice recovery and gaining
37:42
a function and growing back some of those good even as early as
37:45
the six week time point, which is awesome.
37:48
And then we saw a reduction in get this anti gliadin antibody
37:54
titrate titers in in collaboration with innovative
37:57
pet Labs who did all the stool sample measurements and stuff
38:00
like that. We were blinded and the results
38:04
came back recently and it showed that, you know, these, these
38:08
snow leopards had high levels of, of like, you know, anti
38:12
gluten or gluten reactivity or gluten sensitivity markers at
38:17
the onset of the study. And by six weeks way down, they
38:22
were just drinking teeth in the water.
38:24
And then, and we were isolating from stool.
38:28
We weren't even doing the dental because it's really hard to to
38:30
swab a snow leopard it seems. So.
38:36
Yeah. But with that also you saw a
38:38
recovery. So they had really low levels
38:40
concomitantly of this protein called zonulin.
38:44
And zonulin is kind of the A protein involved in sandwiching
38:48
and making your mucosa from hole to hole tight, keeps it tight
38:53
junctioning. And so in leaky gut, you have
38:56
low levels of this. So it's a little bit leaky.
38:59
And then when you get higher levels of zonulin it starts to
39:02
seal. Yeah.
39:04
And so. I'm asking about.
39:06
This morning. Yeah, we were talking about her
39:08
on our walk. We had a couple other questions.
39:10
I really, since we had your brain here, I really would love
39:13
your insight on these, Lily said.
39:15
My senior cat is 18, cannot have dental cleanings, but started
39:19
him with teeth. Can this be an alternative since
39:22
he can't have anaesthesia? You know, I'm not a
39:29
veterinarian, but I can tell you that in our studies, tooth
39:35
brushing is inferior to what we're doing.
39:41
For instance, I don't know if you guys can see this.
39:45
Let. Me get a a neutral background.
39:48
Can you see this? Yeah, let.
39:50
Me, that's a better. That's excellent.
39:54
Yeah. What is that?
39:56
What are we looking at? What are they?
39:57
There are. Microbes that we recovered from
39:59
a mouth that where you're seeing different treatments over time.
40:04
OK. So some of the products on the
40:06
market that claim that they're dental products actually cause
40:09
worse problems and this is more of the healthy flora that you
40:13
want that teeth grew. And this is the control.
40:16
So we were just doing a titration study in a recent
40:19
experiment, but this is just showing you that what's on the
40:21
market quote UN quote for dental is, is can, can be problematic.
40:27
It's it's marketing, yeah. OK, yeah, let's click on a pig.
40:32
What was that? I call it lipstick on a pig.
40:34
Great marketing. Yeah, so another cat, Monica
40:39
said. My second cat was diagnosed with
40:41
early CKD. Can teeth help slow progression?
40:45
Yeah. OK, so you actually might want
40:48
to look at and work with your vet on this.
40:51
You want to might want to try your cat on the dog first dot
40:55
protecting 42 because that has sodium bicarbonate in it and
41:00
bicarbonate actually it has a feedback loop which is very
41:05
positive outcomes for CKD in animals.
41:09
So think about that. Oh wow.
41:13
OK. And it's got a nominal amount of
41:15
sodium. Sodium.
41:17
Everybody's freaked out about sodium and and kidney, but
41:20
kidneys are built to self regulate.
41:22
Sodium is really a problem more for cardiovascular, less so for.
41:27
Kidneys, yeah. But carb is important.
41:30
OK if it's Fiji said I've virtually my cat has no teeth at
41:34
all. She seems to be doing great, but
41:36
I was wondering what problems can arise from having no teeth
41:38
if. You don't have teeth doesn't
41:41
mean you don't have periodontal disease.
41:43
You can still have gum disease, missing teeth because the
41:47
disease is below the gum line. And if it never, you know,
41:52
everybody thinks that by pulling a tooth that's the solution.
41:55
And that's actually an epic fail because that's like, oh, you
41:59
lost a tooth. You know, the goal for us is to
42:02
keep all teeth in the mouths of cats and dogs and humans for our
42:05
lifetime because we'll live longer, very likely and very
42:08
likely we'll also live a higher quality of life.
42:12
And so missing teeth is it's really cute, although it's
42:18
really my grandma signed, she had a, she had dentures by the
42:22
age of 23. Grew up in North Carolina, rural
42:24
North Carolina, where they just take them, you know?
42:28
And. Yeah.
42:29
And so she would always wind up with sores and stuff.
42:31
And that's because she, you know, she had untreated gum
42:34
disease even though she didn't have any teeth.
42:37
And so it is really important to actually put your, your, your
42:42
humans or your animal family members on products like this
42:47
that grow beneficial microbes, get them to behave better and
42:51
and block the bad behavior. Yeah, all right.
42:54
And then I, Lorna said. Just got here.
42:57
We have a cat with resorptive issues, and he's had teeth
42:59
removed before, and now he needs two more teeth removed and his
43:02
gums are red. What can we do for him?
43:07
Very common, yeah. So red means very inflamed, very
43:11
painful. So First off is make sure your
43:13
cat is eating well. I would say hydration is one of
43:19
the things that's undervalued in in dental disease for cats.
43:24
I think it's really important because you need to dilute those
43:27
toxins. So the microbes are making toxic
43:30
things and the immune system that are really upsetting the
43:34
the, the mucosa, the tissue and it's responding by growing up
43:39
and out almost tumor like to protect itself because it's
43:43
under attack. It's just a normal response, but
43:45
it's not able to regulate itself.
43:47
And So what happens is there's a lot more neurons and so it's
43:51
really painful and there's a lot more vasculature forming, which
43:55
means it's red because it's really upset tissue.
43:59
And so irrigating it, flushing the mouth out with just, you
44:03
know, I don't know what your cat likes to drink if it doesn't
44:07
drink water. But you can put the beauties,
44:08
you can put teeth into pretty much anything.
44:10
Bone broth or dilute goat's milk or things like that are a good
44:16
thing to try. You can make fish broth.
44:22
I really, really like omega-3 fatty acids, which you can find
44:27
in some fish. Or other sources?
44:30
And that's anti-inflammatory naturally.
44:32
And so it compounds and synergizes. 1 + 1 can equal 3 if
44:38
you actually map on to the right things, Quinolones, Coq, 10s
44:43
kind of things. Think about those opportunities.
44:45
And then there's probably tons of herbs which you guys can talk
44:48
all day long about that these cats can can also take.
44:52
Yeah, we're actually gonna have Rita Hogan on the world renowned
44:56
herbalist this month as well to to discuss herbs for dental
45:01
health in cats. So that's gonna, did you see
45:02
her? Thing on saponins, I was so
45:04
excited that she talked about saponins in a plant.
45:08
Oh yes. Yeah, the detergent like
45:10
molecules. I was like you go, you go.
45:12
Rita does that. Also, she's also like our our
45:16
our nerd friend that we just love.
45:17
She Yeah, yeah, it is so much fun.
45:21
OK, so I know we're almost like we're we're always running out
45:24
of time, but I know some people were asking if they won't, you
45:26
know, it turns the water green. That is normal.
45:29
I know that is good. That is good.
45:31
Someone said that their cat wouldn't drink it.
45:33
Is there any other way to? Use it.
45:34
Yeah, yeah, it's different, right?
45:36
So you can ease them into it by putting a tiny bit because they
45:40
will definitely smell the algae. So it's the cell wall material
45:44
of of of algae, Chlorella in particular.
45:49
And it is fresh water for folks that are worried about thyroid.
45:54
And it, the cell wall is really important because it's
45:58
anti-inflammatory and it, it sucks up, it's like a molecular
46:02
sponge. So it sucks up all those nasty
46:04
toxins in resort of lesion cases or in other kinds of problems or
46:11
gingivitis in particular. And that's why we put that
46:14
particular ingredient into the cat.
46:17
Specific product yeah, OK, I love it.
46:20
So just like a quick tip, I would say for everyone, and
46:24
correct me if I'm wrong, Doctor Emily, but you're now the third
46:27
person in the past, like I think 3 podcasts that we've had that
46:31
have mentioned how great omega-3 fatty acids are.
46:36
And Doctor Katie talked about Doctor Katie Kangas talked about
46:39
omega-3 fatty acids for dental health are and Doctor Zoo little
46:45
Penny Wood talked about the zoologist talked about how
46:49
health the omega-3 fatty acids are for the kidneys.
46:52
And so I would say and. Joints.
46:58
And I would say one of the easiest ways that we could and
47:01
healthy ways that we could give our cats this, if they're not
47:04
drinking in the, their water is to get sardines in water.
47:07
And that is now you've got your Omega threes and you put the the
47:12
teeth in there and now you've got in the water and now you've
47:15
got the the whole kit and caboodle for all the healthy
47:20
things and your cats. I mean, I, I, I doubt many cats
47:24
don't like sardines like we they're so.
47:26
Good and high calcium. I mean, they're so good.
47:30
Yeah, super healthy and and most cats will just tear it up.
47:35
So that would be my. Smoke.
47:36
Have you guys had this? The smoked sardines and a tin on
47:41
a little toasted with a little garlic.
47:45
I'm going to try that next time you come back to Vegas.
47:47
We're going to do that. Adrian would not.
47:49
Not in a million. She wouldn't even watch us do
47:53
it. But we would.
47:54
I watch you. I watch you eating a giri and
47:56
anchovies. You don't do Caesar salad.
48:01
She watches me eat sushi and does this and I'm like, this is
48:06
not fun. I don't want to eat sushi with
48:08
you so rarely get sushi anymore. OK, so hold on girls.
48:12
I will watch. I will absolutely watch real
48:16
quick though. And so we talked a little bit
48:18
about this correlation between our dental health, our cuts,
48:22
dental health, Like there's a connection there, like every
48:25
home has its own microbiome. And Melanie here is saying, now
48:28
I want to get myself a human. Something is I have horrible
48:31
tooth problems and need a tooth pulled.
48:33
Can you suggest something for me?
48:36
Tell tell us what you have for humans.
48:39
Yeah, what I built for my grandma is it's a lozenge.
48:42
So because she couldn't brush her teeth, because she had such
48:45
bad rheumatoid arthritis, literally this is how bit, how
48:47
much she could hold. So barely a fork by the end of
48:50
her life. And so it's just a lozenge.
48:53
She could just suck on it and it it's the same ingredients in
48:57
teeth I love and you guys are getting some to give some away.
49:02
Yes. So, yes, so it's not here yet.
49:05
So we can't officially announce it, but like not officially.
49:09
We can announce that very soon. We are going to announce that we
49:12
are going to, we are going to have beautiful doctor Emily
49:17
Stein has generously, generously offered to donate some products
49:23
so that we can then start giving that away to you guys who are
49:29
are purchasing tea for your cats.
49:30
So we will be doing that very soon.
49:32
We will announce it, I have to say.
49:34
Yeah, you are such a a beautiful human.
49:36
I love your brain first and foremost, but your heart is
49:40
right up there. So knowing that you created this
49:42
for your grandmother, knowing that you had if you read the
49:46
story that we we shared on another podcast, but how then
49:49
you had a cat that Murphy. Murph dog?
49:52
Yeah. Murph that made you be like, we
49:55
need this for our pets as well. Like of your own?
49:59
I want to. Grandma, a dog and then a cat
50:03
all with all problems. So that's like dive head first
50:06
trying to figure this out. And trying to get it done and
50:09
then to generously offer to send us some so that we can, I mean,
50:13
teeth is flying off the shelves every day in our shop and with
50:18
with the reason and we talked a lot about this tonight.
50:21
But to be able to give to include something free like, I
50:25
don't think I didn't know that this kind of thing even existed.
50:29
You know, I after Katie Kangas was the first one that let me
50:32
like really kind of made me start start start taking my own
50:36
dental health more seriously. You.
50:38
Can use 10 years of your lifespan if you have dental
50:41
problems as a human. Yeah, that's that's why I went
50:47
and got some, got some stuff taken care of, but I'm, Nancy
50:52
said. I just got my human lozenges.
50:56
Human lozenges. And.
50:58
So we ran out of our toothpaste tablets.
51:00
They flew out like because you know, but I, I often drink the
51:04
water additive. We have the human version.
51:06
It's the same. I mean, the animal teeth is
51:10
human quality. It's, it's the same stuff.
51:12
We just put some extra flavoring in because some people don't
51:15
like to drink just water flavored water.
51:18
So. I know.
51:19
Isn't that a weird thing? Yeah.
51:21
It is a thing. If any final thoughts?
51:25
Yeah. Any final thoughts?
51:26
And if there was one thing that you wish everyone could take
51:29
from this podcast, what was what's, what's 1 or maybe 2?
51:33
I doubt you can have just one. I know hate from this podcast.
51:40
OK question dogma. Question dogma, Question dogma.
51:46
Because we're learning. Everything we're learning is
51:48
turning what we understand about what health looks like and what
51:52
disease looks like upside down on its head and how to get from.
51:56
You know, earlier we had a question about, oh, I was my
51:58
hygienist told me I had done, you know, periodontal disease.
52:02
And she said that it's permanent.
52:04
Not necessarily. There are ways to creep back
52:07
more towards the health side of the equation and get you into
52:11
more healthy space. And in some places you might
52:14
actually completely go to a 0 or A1 because they have a scoring
52:18
system. But you know, late latest stage
52:20
is a four where there's no more ligament holding your tooth in
52:24
place. And that's that's where things
52:26
and you can't, you can't regrow yet.
52:29
You know, maybe with stem cell technology in 25 years, people
52:32
will be able to build back periodontal ligaments.
52:35
But no, it's not that science is not there yet.
52:37
So right now you got to protect what you've got, and the best
52:41
way to do that is to grow the good, feed the good, the right
52:44
kind of way. And so you reduce the
52:46
inflammation, keep the tissue healthy, quiet everything down
52:51
so it's not a frat party every day in your mouth.
52:53
Yep. And the same goes for our cats.
52:55
We need to do that. We need to, we need to pay
52:58
attention to that for our cats too, because we, because as as
53:01
Doctor Emily said at the beginning of this, we're,
53:04
they're seeing so many, so many correlations of dental disease
53:09
stemming to these epidemics that we all know that our cats end up
53:14
with or deal with. And so the best thing that we
53:17
can do is pay attention and do something for their feed The
53:22
good guys don't feed the bad guys the good guy.
53:25
Yeah, I mean, it's even like to anal gland infections and stuff
53:29
and cats. So like so connected guys, so
53:32
connected. We're going to end on that note.
53:36
That's a whole new podcast. Later date.