Latest / Journey to the Fringe / We're ranking assholes (part 2 of 5)

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We're ranking assholes (part 2 of 5) · Journey to the Fringe

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
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us on a journey to the fringe. Hello and welcome
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to Journey to the Fringe, where we are continuing
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on our look at the assholes, where we're ranking
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them. None of them, as far as I'm aware, have
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paid to shoot anybody, which is probably a good
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thing. So maybe we break them a little too high.
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But man, it's going to be in the back of my mind
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for a few of them. Yep. Anyhow, this is a continuation
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from last week. So if you haven't, please go
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back and listen to part one of this series where
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we actually cover the people who we didn't think.
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conclusively, we all agreed probably are assholes.
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Although Copilot disagrees with us. Anyhow, we
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don't care about Copilot that much. Now, we're
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going to get into the people we consider real
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assholes. Now, before we get too far into this
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episode, we should go over the scoring system
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again really quickly. We're covering people that
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we've done episodes on in the past, ranking them
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on a score of 50 based on five different factors,
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deception and fabrication, vibes, harm, grift,
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and legacy, giving them a score of 50 on that,
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with anything below a 20 being likely not an
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asshole. We're starting to list 20 and up from
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here on out. And Chelsea, the first person to
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reach. Non -asshole status on my list. No, no,
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asshole status. Sorry, to reach asshole status
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on my list. Just barely, because I know he's
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an asshole. But man, I don't want to think of
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him that way. Oh, who is it? Dr. Michael Sala.
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Oh, he's the first non -asshole. At 39 on the
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list. Season 5, episodes 62 and 64. Oh, that's
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an interesting ranking. Okay, let's, how do you
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spell Sala? Where is he? S -A -L -A. Oh, there
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he is. In case you're wondering, Sala is the
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founder of ExoPolitics, which frames UFOs and
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alien contact as a political science discipline.
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His achievement was giving UFO narratives an
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academic veneer, making them appear scholarly.
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So Chelsea, I gave him a 21 overall, his highest
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score being in Grift. He got a 6 in Harm, a 7
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in Grift, a 6 in Legacy. Deception and Fabrication,
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I gave him a 2. Because I know he believes everything
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he's talking about. Oh, okay. And I gave him
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a 0 in Lies. Because there is absolutely no amount
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of asshole I see in that guy. He's a guy who
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I look at and I'm like, I think he gets bullied.
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Yeah, but I still look at him and I think asshole
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is my thing. So, sorry, what was your total score
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for him? 21. Oh, mine's 32. I had to give him
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a zero in vibes because I do not get asshole
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vibes from him. I know he's an asshole, but I
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gave him a zero in vibes. Interesting. Interesting.
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I give him a five. But that man could say anything.
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Like, he could be advocating for genocide of
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a group, and I'd say, like, with that, the way
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he talks, not an asshole. It's true. It's true.
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The way he talks, like, it's just... I get what
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you're saying. I can't even describe it into
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words, but yes, I get exactly what you're saying.
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He even says, like... When he starts out, he's
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like, we're just starting from a point that everything
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that's being looked at is true. And there's a
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UFO implication behind it. It's true. And he
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gets higher to me because he's still deceiving.
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So I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt
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on those ones. I don't think he's deceiving.
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And that's that weird thing about him. Like his
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educational, like the background education for
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him. I don't think he's deceiving. But he got,
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unfortunately. He is very grifty. Like, I think
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that is very apparent from everything that you
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look at with his websites. And his legacy of
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exo -politics leads that group, the UFO community,
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to have something, that term, to lean back on
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to support anything that they do, which is where
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he ends up being an asshole for me. Yeah. You
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know what? I can pick that up because, you know
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what? Now that I look back on our ranking for
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deception and fabrication, it's knowingly. Yeah.
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So I might be able to come down a few pegs on
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the deception, but I think everything else I
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have is fairly accurate. Yeah. Though I might
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bring him down maybe on the harm. Maybe I can
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come to a 28. Okay. I still think he's higher
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up there than some other people. Fair enough.
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But I just, the only other thing that got a zero
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for me. in um vibes was weekly world news i'm
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pretty sure shut up i think there might be a
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few more but there's other zeros i think on the
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list but like i just do not get asshole vibes
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and i know he's an asshole too i just don't get
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the vibes no i still i still get the vibes i
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would come down on deception and fabrication
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i see i did get the vibes from him A little bit.
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Not full asshole vibes, but I did get a little
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bit of the vibes. And sorry, what number was
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he on your list? Well, he was ranked, I have
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to add two, so I would say 25. Okay, and Copilot
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has him at 26 with a score of 36. Another, I'm
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coming very close. I do agree. I do think my
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viewpoint is tainted. From watching him. Yeah.
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And I, out of everybody, actually, Copilot might
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have seen more of him. But I do think I am the
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most attuned to him. See, here's why I, I'll
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tell you outright why I scored him a little bit
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higher on things. Because I specifically remember
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what was the last episode I did, Skinny Bob.
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Yes. And Michael Sala made an appearance. And
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as soon as I said Michael Sala, you were like,
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that's it. It's not real. It's not true, yeah.
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Yeah, so, and I know it was a small portion of
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it. As soon as you start, right off the bat,
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he says, everything I do just takes everything
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given to me as true, and then I go from there.
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See, and that means something, too, as an asshole,
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though. Yeah. It might not be a knowing asshole,
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but you're still an asshole. So, Copilot gave
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him. Copilot gave Salah a 36 overall. Salah scores
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high in deception and grip for pushing exopolitics
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and monetizing UFO lore. His legacy is solid
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in UFO circles. His vibes are middling, seen
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as opportunistic, but not universally toxic.
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He's held back by moderate harm since his influence
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is cultural rather than destructive. You know
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what? I will agree with you. I could knock him
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down a few pegs because I agree he's not destructive,
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just an oblivious asshole. So I could knock him
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down a few pegs. Absolutely. I gotta admit, I
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think a lot of the bottom of my asshole list
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is a lot of people who I like. Kind of in weird
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ways that I couldn't put them higher. But I also
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do think I can justify this. I wonder where this
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is going. Oh, and sorry. Did we say Michael Sala
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before we move on? Season five, episode 62 and
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64. I can't remember if I said it. Just need
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to add it in there. And that means at 38 on my
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list, Chelsea, is... Who's it going to be? Andrew
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Baziago. Where's Baziago? Got a 21. Season three,
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episode eight. I do like me a Basiago. And...
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But... Yeah, I fully expect him to be much higher
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on everybody's list. Yeah, but I do like him.
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See, I agree with you saying, though I don't
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have him that low, I can't... Who did we just
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do? Salah. Yeah. Where are you? Oh, he's lower
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than Michael Salah. Okay. Yeah. So... Vaziago
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is best known for claiming he participated in
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secret government time travel and Mars missions.
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His achievement was building a niche following
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inserting himself in the UFO disclosure narrative.
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His asshole actions include fabricating elaborate
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stories, monetizing them through appearances,
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self -promotion, and misleading audiences with
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fantastical claims. I give him a 22 overall.
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His highest score is being in deception and fabrication
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and fives. I give him seven in deception, seven
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in vibes, one in harm, six in grift and one in
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legacy because he is going to be forgotten like
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immediately i think this is the closest we've
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come so far in a total i am at a 23 oh yeah right
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there and i yeah he would have much lower vibes
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if his website did not have those hidden words
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those skyrocket the vibes those just got so weird
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And if he had run for president this past term
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as well, because like he was supposed to be president.
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So what the hell? This is like his last chance,
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wasn't it? There's maybe one more. You know,
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the hidden porn links just does it for me. That
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was like the most memorable thing about him.
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But he's a lawyer, you know, and in my head,
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I still look back at him as a lawyer. Yeah. Well,
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and that's why I'm like. He did on his website.
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And like he never had, like I looked up, there
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weren't complaints against him. Like he had a
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successful practice. See, and that's where he
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gets like kind of a lower vibe on me. But he
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got a very high deception. And there's almost
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something about him that doesn't... There are
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vibes. There are weird vibes. There are weird
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vibes, but it doesn't properly amalgamate within
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myself. To an asshole, right? The type of person
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he is. Right? But he is. Like he had a unicorn
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in his logo thing on his shirt. I know! Okay,
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so this is what I remember. The unicorn logo,
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the porn links, and that he's a lawyer. And that
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gave him a score of 23. We are right beside each
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other. Copilot has him 29th on their list with
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a 35. They say... that Vazio scores high in deception
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for fabricated time travel. His grift is moderate
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with books and appearances. His legacy is middling,
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remembered in fringe circles. His vibes are middling,
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eccentric, but not universally toxic. And they
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don't take into account those hidden links. That
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might be the difference. See, no, I don't think
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nobody is. I think you stumbled onto something
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by accident that nobody else knows. I think it's
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a secret. And I think their description hits
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it dead on. It was... In my head, I associate
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him with Corey Goode with the Secret Space Program.
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Okay. And for that, he scores high on the deception
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and fabrication for me. Very high. Okay. And
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the last thing it says here is he's held back
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by moderate harm since his claims misled but
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didn't ruin anybody's lives. So they gave him
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a 35 overall. I would agree with that completely.
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We have 22 and 23. Yeah. So we're right. And
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Coppola's wrong. Yeah. Though... I agree with
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what Copilot gave as a description, so I just
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think their scoring's off. Next up, at 37, I
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have John Teeter, Season 2, Episode 44. Teeter
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was an anonymous internet persona in the early
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2000s who claimed to be a time traveler from
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2036. His achievement was creating one of the
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most enduring internet legends, sparking forums,
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debates, and memes. I have him at... 34. Oh,
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not that far. This is pretty much... Yeah, we're
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very close. And I gave him an overall of a 22.
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I have a 21. Wow. I think his highest score is
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in Legacy with a 7 because I do think this story
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lives on fairly well. And I gave him a 6 for
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Deception and Fabrication. 5. The story gives
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weird vibes, so I gave him a 5. I don't think
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his story has any harm attached to it. And as
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far as I can remember, there's not a lot of grift.
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He didn't really monetize this story. Yeah, yeah,
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I would agree completely with those. I gave very
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low on harm. I don't know about grift. That one
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I did score a little bit higher. But now that
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you say that, you're right. Though, even though
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it wasn't monetary, he was on forums. He was
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on Coast to Coast AM. he was but I don't actually
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think it was like plug your stuff I don't remember
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him ever plugging it no it wasn't you're right
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it was more about the storytelling and for deception
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I gave him very high see I think he was on there
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to deceive I don't think he was on there to make
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a buck yeah And the thing about Coast to Coast
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AM, though he did go on the forums, was Art Bell
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always said part of what he did was storytelling.
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So you never know with stuff like that. But Legacy,
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I have Legacy low, but you're right. He is one
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of the big hitters. Though you don't see time
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travelers talked about that much anymore. You
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really don't. Do you? No. No. Why is it going
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away? I don't know. And weirdly enough. You would
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think it would be more and more now that we're
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coming into technology. As more time goes by,
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there should be more time travel. Yeah. Yeah.
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And now that our technology gets, like, further
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along, you would think there'd be more talk of
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time travel. And weirdly enough, this is one
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of the lower scores. John Titor is number 44
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on Copilot's list with a score of 27. Interesting.
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Do we know what it says about him? Teeter scores
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high in deception for fabricating the time travel
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persona. His legacy is moderate, remembered as
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an internet legend. His vibes were neutral, more
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prankster than toxic. He's held back by low harm
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and grit since his hoax was cultural fun rather
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than exploitation. Well, yeah. Yeah, so that's
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where it falls on there. This one I think might
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be the most decisive choice I have made here,
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Chelsea, at number 36. Right at the middle of
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the list. Well, this is a very middling individual
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and he's going to be in your middle too. I just
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don't think you'll expect it this low. Okay.
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Can I take a guess? Is it going to be George
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Norris? No, it's not. Okay. This is David Wilcock.
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Season 2's episode 25, 26, 27, and 28. And 29
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and 30. It felt like, why? Why don't you read
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the description and then I'll tell you how I
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scored him. I'm mind blown right now. Because
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to me, he's one of the biggest fucking assholes.
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You know what? He probably, looking at my score,
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I probably could give him a few higher scores.
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But I think overall, I'm in the right spot. He
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was... I'll compare mine and tell you where I
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put him. Wilcock rose to prominence as a New
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Age author and lecturer, weaving together Atlantis
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myths, Ascension narratives, and UFO lore. His
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achievement lies in building a large following
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and... Large following? I think that following
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is dwindled now. And influencing the modern spiritual
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fringe landscape through books and appearances.
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Okay, where do I have him on mine? Oh, he's lower
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on mine than I thought too. Whoa. I didn't even
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look at this. Where is he? So again, I have him
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at 36. He got a 9 in grift for me. That is his
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absolute highest score. It's the highest score
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we've seen on this list at this point in mine.
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But he got a one in legacy. He is going to be
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immediately. He has been immediately forgotten.
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We're like one of the few people that still.
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Oh, you're fucking right. So, okay. Here's where
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we're varying. I think I have him at a 23. Yeah.
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See, I have a 23. He's just 36. I bet you we
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scored the same on everything else. So I have
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them at a 10 for deception and fabrication. I
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have them at an eight for vibes. I have him at
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a four for harm. I have him at a 10 for grift
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and you're going to like this for legacy. I have
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him at a 10 with brackets in my heart, which
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also means his legacy. Like, like to me, he's
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like the biggest asshole because nostalgically
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David Wilcock is like my original asshole. Yeah.
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But. Yeah. Which is why I scored him at a 10.
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But I, at the same time, I agree with you because
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like I just joked, his audience is dwindling
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now. And I would probably, if I was being honest.
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probably put him at a one as well because he's
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easily forgettable yeah but 10 in my heart because
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he's such an ad and that's why i turn into his
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lives just so i can laugh at him and he's even
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letting me down even you the person who gave
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him a 10 in legacy forget that he goes live on
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sunday sometimes so i gave him an h for deception
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and fabrication just because i don't think he
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cares enough he's not I just don't think he cares
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for a lot of it. I do think there is definitely
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some lying. But I think most of it is laziness.
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Yep. I gave him a three for vibes. Because if...
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You gave him a three for asshole vibes? Yeah.
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And I... Okay, but does thinking too highly of
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yourself count for ass? It can. Because he scores
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a ten. But this is another thing. And that's
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where you see that from him. I gave him a three
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because if somebody said, Taylor, let's pretend
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that you believe in alpha and beta levels for
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men. What would be your definition of a beta?
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And I would say, oh, David Wilcock. Like beyond
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a shadow of a doubt. He will always grovel as
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a number two kind. And I don't think he's done
18:02
that much harm. Yes, he's out there, but he did
18:06
like the 2012 stuff and just pivoted and didn't
18:09
even think about it. See, we speculate about
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David Wilcock. I listened to his arch nemesis,
18:15
Stephen Cambion, which is a little hard to listen
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to because he's just so homophobic about it.
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And I don't think he's a beta. I think he's a
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person that is so self -conscious about himself.
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And I think that's where you get the cockiness
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about him. But this isn't about me just analyzing
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David Wilcox. And the weird thing about his cockiness
18:39
is it's so made up. You can see right through
18:42
his cockiness. Yeah, and it's way overplayed,
18:46
but I think he's just so self -conscious about
18:49
himself. If you ever pushed him on cockiness,
18:51
he would immediately submit. That's what I get
18:54
from him. And this is the weird thing about David
18:57
Wilcock and why he fell so low. And also, he
19:00
doesn't, I don't think he has very many original
19:02
ideas. No. He waits to see where the winds are
19:05
and then he just picks up what's around. Yeah.
19:08
He plays a lot off of other people's research.
19:11
Yeah. Right now, his thing is Stephen Grew. Yeah.
19:15
And he's sucking up to him. Yeah. Yeah. And then
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there was Corey Good, who, of course, has gone
19:21
very sour legally for multiple reasons, which
19:25
gets him pretty high on my asshole list. But
19:27
obviously, he scored lower than I thought he
19:30
would definitely, though. Yeah. And I do think
19:32
at the end of the day, he has no legacy. Zero
19:35
legacy. Sorry, one legacy. Yeah, I think you're
19:38
right. He tied with Andrew Basiago and Paul Benowitz
19:42
as my only ones in legacy. And it's because,
19:45
like, if anything, he was going to be a remember
19:48
of 2012. He doesn't even talk about that anymore.
19:50
Like, he doesn't even pretend that there was
19:52
something about it that, like, is still continuing
19:55
on. Why would he? But you could so easily say,
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like... oh, this is the transition period that
19:59
we're in. It will be so easy. And he's like,
20:01
no, don't even talk about it anymore. Just pretend
20:03
it didn't happen. See, I forgot in all of this
20:06
not to have my personal bias included in it.
20:10
Here's my problem. So I could knock him down
20:13
a few. But I think it's fine to keep him where
20:15
you are. Again, we have the exact same score,
20:18
23. Yeah. Interesting. And sorry, we haven't
20:22
even gotten to the co -pilots yet, so I'm just
20:25
going to pull that up really quick. Oh, what
20:26
does co -pilot do? Wilcox is... Wow, they have
20:30
him at 11th with a 40 overall. And denying it
20:34
grift. So they agree on that. Yeah, we all agree
20:37
at the grift because he straight up told people
20:39
on YouTube. Yeah, I'm just not going to do it
20:41
if I don't get money. And they say, Wilcox's
20:43
grift and deception are strong. Endless books,
20:45
courses, and dubious claims. His vibes are poor
20:48
because he's often seen as arrogant and dismissive.
20:50
Throwing allies under the bus. Actually, that
20:53
would probably push his vibes up for me. He scores
20:56
high in legacy for shaping modern new age UFO
20:59
lore, but he's held back. I don't think he shapes
21:01
it. Yeah, I agree fully, but he's held back slightly
21:03
because his harm is more cultural than personal.
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Yeah. And that's where I scored him really low
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was in harm. I don't think he's harming anyone.
21:11
And that's another thing I have against his arch
21:13
nemesis, Stephen Cambium. He insults his followers
21:17
and just let them be, man. Just let them be.
21:20
Yeah, I agree with that. Just let them live their
21:22
life. who cares if they want to throw them a
21:25
hundred bucks if they have it i'm sure they're
21:27
not spending you know the last food they have
21:30
for money i really hope they're not because man
21:32
there's some whenever he says like oh man my
21:35
life's so tough what are you guys dealing with
21:37
and there's like cancer like a lot of cancer
21:39
in there And he's like, yeah, well, we're all
21:43
through a hard time. But that's where I think
21:48
he's very low in harm. Like who cares? These
21:51
people are doing it of their own free will. Like
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who gives a shit? Don't insult them. Just there's
21:57
someone out there doing every type of thing.
21:59
Just fucking let them be. We're all humans. Let
22:01
them throw away their money where they want.
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I choose to throw it away on other stupid things,
22:06
but they choose to throw it away on David Wilcock.
22:09
Who I'm sure would do anything for money. Yes,
22:12
he would. He almost does on that show. It's true.
22:19
Okay, next up. I don't know where this is going
22:22
to fall on your list, Chelsea. And I don't think
22:24
this is a number that's set in stone for this
22:27
person. Because this is one where I feel like
22:29
there's going to be an update in the next five
22:30
years that really tells us where they fall on
22:33
this list. Next up, at number 35, is Tom DeLonge.
22:37
Season 2, episodes 35 and 36. Ooh, I have him
22:41
at 37. Okay. not that far off no tom de long
22:44
former blink -182 front man founded to the stars
22:47
academy to push ufo disclosure his achievement
22:50
was mainstreaming ufo discourse bringing government
22:53
documents and credible figures into the spotlight
22:55
his actions include mixing legitimate evidence
22:58
with speculative claims monetizing through media
23:00
ventures and hyping investors with promises that
23:03
blurred entertainment and disclosure i gave him
23:06
overall a 24 which is the exact same oh no sorry
23:11
one above david wilcock and i don't know if it's
23:15
gonna be for asshole purposes his highest score
23:18
is an eight in legacy because i think no matter
23:20
what happens he's going to be remembered for
23:22
this it's true he got a six in vibes just because
23:26
i think he's easily taken advantage of you can
23:30
see it when he does interviews about this but
23:32
i don't think he's lying in any way and i don't
23:35
think he's done any harm per se yet Also, he's
23:38
gotten very high in grift because of what he's
23:42
done with To The Stars Academy and the very weird
23:44
practices with stock options. Oh, you're right.
23:48
And I think I could update some things. I do
23:51
think this number will change in the future as
23:53
we see what To The Stars Academy does, because
23:55
they've been very silent for a while here. They
23:57
have. I do think there's a chance he becomes
23:59
the John Lear of this generation, which is a
24:02
weird way to say it. But after... It is a very
24:05
weird way to say it. I finished reading a book
24:07
today, UFO Spooks and Kooks, which I finally
24:10
finished. And I realized there are a lot of parallels
24:13
between them. Interesting. Yeah. See, I scored
24:16
him very low on deception and vibes. Hear me
24:20
out. I agree with you now about the whole To
24:24
The Stars Academy. And so I might bump him up
24:27
a bit there because I did not get the chance
24:29
to listen back to that episode in season two,
24:32
episode 35, 36. I scored him very low because
24:36
Tom DeLonge reminds me a lot of me. in the fact
24:41
that he's just passionate about UFOs and he just
24:45
loves UFOs and he used his platform for Blink
24:48
-182 to like get in with these people. And I
24:52
think you're right. I think that leads him to
24:54
be easily taken advantage of by the grifters
24:58
in the UFO community. So that's where I score
25:01
him lower because I think that he's... He's lower
25:07
in something for me. And right now I don't know
25:09
what it is. Maybe it's vibes. Yeah, that very
25:13
well could be. Yeah, because grift, I think it
25:16
is higher because he's using also to the stars
25:19
to sell merchandise. So I have him at a 17, but
25:23
I think he should be a little bit higher now
25:25
that you put it that way. I think you put it
25:28
very well. Okay, well. Actually, he's very low
25:31
on the co -pilots list as well. They give him
25:34
a 31 and he is 40th on their list. But I think
25:37
we're in agreement here that we're still waiting
25:40
to see what his score is going to be because
25:41
his story is still going. Absolutely. And he
25:44
did put out that book. Yeah. The Secret Machines.
25:47
Yeah. And there's that whole second side and
25:50
there's a lot of stories. I think we're going
25:51
to, we'll have to do an update in the next couple
25:53
of years on Tom DeLonge and To The Stars. Oh,
25:55
absolutely. Maybe I didn't think fully about
25:58
it because again, it was an episode that I didn't
26:00
listen to. Oh, and that's the weird thing is
26:02
the ones you listen to, you realize, oh, these
26:04
are all the asshole things I forgot about. And
26:06
it moves them on. Yeah. And this one was back
26:09
from season two. Jeez. Yeah. So... Didn't feel
26:12
like that long ago. That was three years ago.
26:15
I cannot remember all the details for all the
26:18
assholes. Tom DeLong, co -pilot, says DeLong
26:21
scores high in legacy for bringing UFOs into
26:23
mainstream pop culture. We're all in agreement
26:24
with that. His deception is moderate. He amplified
26:27
dubious claims. He doesn't think they're dubious,
26:31
though. That's the whole thing with it. His grift
26:33
is solid with media projects. His vibes are middling.
26:36
Seen as enthusiastic but naive. He's held back
26:39
by low harm since his influence was more entertainment
26:42
than exploitation. Okay, I can pick that. That's
26:46
pretty much what you were saying as well, I think.
26:49
Yeah. For the most part. Yeah, I think they gave
26:51
him a lower mark. Overall, they gave him a 20.
26:54
Sorry, I gave him a 24. They gave him a 31. So
26:57
they're just scoring higher. They are scoring
27:01
very high in general, yes. But anyhow, we can
27:04
move on next. Chelsea, next on my list at 34
27:07
is Edgar Mitchell. Season 5, episodes 40 and
27:11
42. Okay, where is he on mine? Well, let's tell
27:15
us about him. Oh, he's low. Yeah. Oh, sorry,
27:18
I got excited again. Mitchell was an Apollo 14
27:21
astronaut who later became a UFO and consciousness
27:24
advocate. His achievement was his role in NASA
27:27
history and lending astronaut credibility to
27:30
fringe topics. His asshole actions were relatively
27:33
mild. He promoted speculative UFO claims and
27:37
paranormal ideas but didn't exploit followers
27:40
or monetize heavily making him eccentric rather
27:44
than predatory. And I gave him overall a 24 with
27:49
the highest being legacy because he is going
27:51
to be remembered and used. And I think the further
27:54
away we get from him and especially, I can't
27:57
remember if he's alive or not. I didn't go back
27:59
and listen to these ones. But after he dies and
28:02
especially like in the future, he's going to
28:04
be used as the astronaut who pushed this stuff.
28:09
And that's... And he was even alive if I remember
28:12
correctly back from his episode. Yeah. Well,
28:15
a lot of the stuff he did was when he was alive.
28:17
And I gave him a seven for deception, which most
28:19
people might not agree with. But it's deception
28:24
by omission and letting people believe that because
28:28
you're an astronaut, you have direct evidence
28:30
about this. And he never has anything. That's
28:33
the annoying part with Edgar Mitchell. Oh, good
28:36
point. See, and I didn't score him that high
28:39
with deception, but you're right. He was a believer
28:43
in it. So I think that might be a little bit
28:45
sneaky to put him a little bit higher in deception.
28:48
Yeah, that's the annoying thing. It was never
28:50
firsthand evidence. It was always people telling
28:52
him stuff. but the fact that he was an astronaut
28:54
he didn't have it yeah the fact that he was an
28:57
astronaut let people believe that oh an astronaut
28:59
believes this so he must have first -hand evidence
29:01
or it must be something that we can use but no
29:04
he was just a believer yeah i didn't take into
29:07
the as an omission as a part of the deception
29:11
but you're right when you say that my highest
29:13
one was legacy Because of that. So if I was to
29:17
take in the omission part, I think he would be
29:20
a little bit higher on mine. He's fairly low
29:22
on mine. He was another person like Tom DeLonge,
29:26
who's just naive. So kind of was like, I believe
29:29
it. So I'm going to talk about it. I think they're
29:33
very similar, him and Tom DeLonge. Yeah, that's
29:35
a very fair point in that they have celebrity
29:37
status outside. Yeah, and they're very close
29:40
on my list too by that. We just found the bottom
29:44
of Copilot's list. This is their bottom. What?
29:47
Yeah. Really? Oh, so we have Tom DeLonge and
29:51
Edgar Mitchell coming up fairly low. Yeah. So
29:55
Mitchell scores low overall. His legacy is decent
29:58
as an astronaut, but his UFO advocacy was eccentric
30:02
rather than exploitative. His deception, grift,
30:04
and harm are low. His vibes are neutral, more
30:07
quirky than toxic. He's held back because his
30:10
fringe claims were minor compared to his genuine
30:12
achievements. And I think we're picking up on
30:14
the same vibes as we were with Tom Belong. I
30:17
think they're very similar. They just had a genuine
30:19
passion about it. I don't think it's exploitative
30:23
by any means, except for Tom Belong. He's scoring
30:25
higher because of the merchandise selling as
30:29
well and profiting off of it. That whole corporation
30:31
thing, yeah. As far as the naivete goes between
30:35
the two of them, I think it's very, very similar.
30:38
They just have a passion for it and took it from
30:41
there. Okay, next up on my list at 33, I have
30:45
Carl Allen from The Philadelphia Experiment,
30:48
season two, episode 45. Hey, I do not have that
30:51
same person there. Where are you, Carl Allen?
30:54
Carl Allen, also known as Carlos Allende, is
30:58
the man behind the letters that birthed The Philadelphia
31:00
Experiment. The idea that the U .S. Navy teleported
31:03
a ship in 1943. His achievement was creating
31:06
one of the most enduring conspiracy legends in
31:08
UFO and paranormal lore. He did fabricate it.
31:11
The whole story, wholesale. Misleading researchers
31:14
for decades and seeding paranoia that still circulates
31:17
today. I gave him overall a 25. His highest are
31:21
in deception and legacy. Nines in each of those.
31:25
I gave him a 3 in vibes. I don't... He was a
31:29
guy with mental health problems, if you go back
31:31
and listen to the episode. And he didn't try
31:33
to profit from it. And at the end of the day,
31:35
it's a weird story, but I don't think it caused
31:38
any harm. And I will say, just right now, there
31:41
are multiple people we could have taken out of
31:43
the Philadelphia Experiment episode. This is
31:45
the only one we took out. I have him higher just
31:48
because he's probably one of the more recognizable
31:52
people. I know we're going to have a few people
31:55
on this list that you're kind of like, huh? And
31:57
I was even like, huh? We did this person until
31:59
I remembered where they're coming from. But the
32:02
Philadelphia experiment is... Oh, legacy -wise,
32:06
I gave it a nine. Infamous. It could have probably
32:09
been a ten. I agree. I put Grift up there as
32:12
well, just because now that you say that, you're
32:14
right with the mental health. He didn't mean
32:17
to either. I don't know, though, because otherwise,
32:20
why did he do it? Because he had mental health
32:22
problems. Sorry, I went back and listened to
32:25
the episode. He had mental health problems. Oh,
32:27
you listened to it. Okay. See, and I didn't.
32:30
There's the thing. We could have done one other
32:32
guy in that episode, and it's the guy who watched
32:34
the movie. And he's like, wait, everything's
32:36
coming back to me. Yes. We probably should have
32:39
picked him to do this on. I picked Carl Allen,
32:42
though. Yeah. And he was the one who time traveled
32:45
like multiple times. It was great. Great episode.
32:48
Also, sorry. One thing I need to say right now,
32:50
every asshole episode we did, they're a great
32:53
episode to go back and listen to. Just saying
32:56
that now. Oh yeah. This one's season two, episode
32:58
45. Go listen. It's great. All great episodes.
33:02
All of them. We're ranking them now, but don't
33:04
go by rank. Just go listen to them. They're all
33:07
fantastic. And like I said, there's multiple
33:09
assholes in there. We could put on the list.
33:10
I only put Carl Allen on. And I did love that
33:13
just like his pseudonyms were always his name,
33:16
but like slightly different. Carlos Allende.
33:19
He was like Professor Allende on one of them
33:22
too. And sorry, what was your overall score?
33:27
I gave him a 25. Oh, mine's a 38. Okay. And I
33:31
think it's more for me, just the deception and
33:34
the legacy that bring them there. Oh, wow. And
33:36
Copilot gave him a 38 as well. Oh, my God. Another
33:39
one. And they didn't explain. So I'm going to
33:42
assume it's just your explanation. Oh, no, sorry.
33:44
I'm on your list, not your list. They gave him
33:50
a 37. No, you're right. I am Copilot. Okay, Chelsea,
34:00
next up. They still don't have an explanation.
34:03
No, I don't have an explanation, unfortunately.
34:05
It's one of those things where you ask Copilot
34:07
so many times and it just forgets things. And
34:08
I tried to get everything I thought I had and
34:10
I did not. Yeah. Okay, next up on my list, Chelsea,
34:13
is Corey Good. Season 4, episode 14. Although
34:18
multiple times outside of that. okay good became
34:21
infamous for his secret space program testimony
34:24
and the introduction of the blue avians his achievement
34:27
was gaining a devoted following and shaping ufo
34:30
disclosure narratives in the mid 2010s his biggest
34:33
action was revealed in court he admitted to inventing
34:37
the blue avians undermining years of claims while
34:40
simultaneously trying to copyright them as intellectual
34:44
property this mix of fabrication monetization
34:47
and lawsuits against critics makes him one of
34:51
the most egregious figures in the field. I gave
34:54
him overall a 26 highest being he got a 10 in
34:58
deception and fabrication because of that. I
35:01
gave him a five for vibes just because I don't
35:04
know like if you watch him talk he doesn't seem
35:08
as bad as other people especially as you see
35:11
higher on the list. I gave him a two for harm
35:13
just because like who's actually watching Corey
35:16
Good? Eight for grift and one for legacy. Cause
35:19
again, he's going to be forgotten. Let's see.
35:21
And he sits at a 32 for me, which is the same
35:24
as David Wilcox. Yeah. So where does he, he comes
35:28
higher on your list than David Wilcox? Just a
35:30
little bit. Like he, overall we've gone, David
35:33
Wilcox got a 23. Okay. And Corey Good got a 26.
35:38
he is higher in deception and it's just because
35:41
of the lawsuit stuff and he came higher in deception
35:45
because i get slightly worse vibes from poor
35:47
good because he has like thrown people under
35:50
the bus with that whole lawsuit thing He has.
35:53
Yeah, I definitely, now that I'm looking back
35:56
on it, David Wilcox seems to just kind of associate
36:00
with anybody that he probably thinks that he
36:03
can use to make money off of this guy. Whereas
36:06
Cory Good, yeah, Cory Good's not going to be
36:08
a number two. He gives me, like, he tried to,
36:11
like, trademark this in court. Yeah. So... deception
36:14
and fabrication i gave him a 10 because he admitted
36:16
to it in court i did give him asshole vibes he
36:19
like he gives me the creeps even just listening
36:21
to him talk yeah but also i still don't get like
36:24
weird like creepy vibes from him I get like.
36:27
I do. No, I get. Yeah. And I guess, I don't know.
36:30
Asshole vibes in my mind are different than what
36:32
Corey Wood gives off. But I get that asshole
36:35
vibes can be very different for everybody. Yeah.
36:37
Yeah. To me, he gives me a very high asshole
36:40
vibe. But at the same time, I get where you're
36:43
saying that. But it's the same with David Wilcock,
36:46
which is funny that they were associated for
36:48
a while. They give me the same kind of insecure
36:50
vibes. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. And I actually
36:53
think I gave him slightly higher vibes. However,
36:57
he still had the balls in court come out and
36:59
say Blue Avians are my like mine child. They're
37:03
my intellectual property. I don't know that David
37:06
Wilcock would have the guts to do something like
37:08
that because it would discredit him. And this
37:10
guy's just an idiot. Oh, wow. Copilot has him
37:13
at number two at 44. Really? Yeah. And anyhow,
37:18
his legacy is a zero for me because I don't think
37:21
that he's everlasting to anybody. I put it right
37:25
at David Wilcox level. So yeah. Are they tied
37:28
for me? They're tied for me. Okay. Corey Good
37:31
maxes out deception and grift with fabricated
37:34
space program and aggressive monetization. His
37:36
vibes are toxic. Lawsuit betrayals and community
37:39
feuds. He scores high in legacy because his story
37:42
still echoes in UFO circles and his harm is significant
37:44
for misleading thousands. Nothing holds him back.
37:47
He's a top tier asshole. I mean, I don't disagree
37:50
with that. I don't think that co -pilot is wrong.
37:54
Okay, Chelsea, next up on my list is J3. from
37:57
season 5 episode 58 and 60 and technically from
38:01
the stanley tiger episode as well That's so funny.
38:04
J3 Productions is a media outfit that packages
38:06
fringe personalities and UFO paranormal claims
38:09
into slick documentaries and online content.
38:11
Their achievement is amplifying fringe narratives
38:14
and giving them professional polish, helping
38:15
figures reach wider audiences. Their asshole
38:18
actions come from monetizing sensationalism,
38:20
platforming dubious claims as truth, and profiling,
38:24
profiting from controversy cycles, even when
38:27
the content is fabricated or harmful. I gave
38:29
them overall a 26, leaving them at 31. Which
38:33
is, there's actually four of them tied at 26.
38:36
Kind of in random in here. Let me see what I
38:38
gave them. Their absolute highest is Grift for
38:41
me. Oh no, sorry. Yeah. Everything is equal in
38:44
my mind at six. Except Legacy, because they're
38:48
not going to be remembered in a two. Yeah, okay.
38:50
These guys were really hard for me to rank. I
38:53
agree. Let me tell you why. Deception and Fabrication.
38:58
They literally just wanted to make money. Yeah,
39:03
and that's... But also, they don't really charge
39:06
people for anything. Exactly. That's why I had
39:08
a hard time with this. That's why they were really
39:09
hard. So what got them the highest to me was
39:14
through Deception and Griff via association with
39:17
Stanley Tiger. Because they fully stood behind
39:21
that story and with him, even after the allegations.
39:25
They said, no, we're sticking with this. We're
39:28
sticking to this story. Because this one's so
39:31
clear in my mind. I didn't even need to listen
39:33
to the episode. But the weird thing is, too,
39:36
they never pivoted from, like, I forget what
39:39
the name of that series was, but they could have
39:41
restarted the series, but they're like, no, we
39:43
can't throw away that. Yeah, exactly. And his
39:46
story is totally separate from him being a pedophile.
39:49
But I couldn't say that was worse than a lot
39:52
of what other people have done, but I do get
39:54
now that we're talking about, like, the whole
39:56
pedophile thing, I probably should have given
39:57
it a higher deception. But it's... difficult
40:00
because it's not their story yeah it's stanley
40:05
tiger would score higher in the deception because
40:08
it's no and it's unfortunately yeah it's the
40:10
corporate bureaucracy exactly that at the end
40:13
of it it's so mundane and benign that it's hard
40:16
to like score it high and outside of stanley
40:19
tiger they have nothing their legacy i have is
40:23
a one no they're like i feel like their legacy
40:26
is like a four percent roi on investment yeah
40:29
like these guys had no interest in the community
40:32
or anything it was just how do we make money
40:34
i even put their grift at five like it even wasn't
40:37
even that high because obviously no because again
40:40
their videos are free on it harm i put it as
40:44
seven just because of the stance that they took
40:47
behind stanley tiger with this whole pedophile
40:49
thing they didn't really say anything about how
40:53
it was bad. They didn't put out a statement otherwise
40:56
or anything like that. So I put their harm higher
40:58
for that one because they could have actually
41:01
taken a stance on that and had their voices heard,
41:05
but then they wouldn't have made that much money
41:07
on it. Right. Who knows if they even made that
41:08
much money vibes. I put it a one because they're
41:11
real fucking boring guys. So I have them scoring
41:14
a 21. So they are 35 on my list. Oh, okay. So
41:17
they're lower for you. Okay. And just reaching
41:20
asshole level. Yeah, they were surprising for
41:23
me. I found them very hard in that means. And
41:25
you know what? I actually had them. Oh, no, sorry.
41:28
Copilot had them the highest at 30th with a score
41:31
of 35 overall, giving them basically sevens,
41:34
six and eights across the board. Interesting.
41:37
They say J3 scores high in Gryffin Legacy for
41:40
amplifying fringe figures with slick media. Their
41:43
deception is moderate. They platformed hoaxes,
41:45
but didn't invent them. Their vibes are middling,
41:48
seen as opportunistic, but not toxic. They're
41:51
held back by moderate harm since they amplify
41:53
nonsense rather than originate it. And this is
41:56
the one we're going to finish off with, Chelsea.
41:57
The next one on my list. Who is it? Bruce Gernon.
42:01
Who the fuck is that? From Electronic Five. Oh,
42:04
right. Season 4, episode 48. Groening claimed
42:07
to have flown through an electronic fog in the
42:10
Bermuda Triangle, inspiring paranormal aviation
42:13
lore. His achievement was popularizing this anomaly
42:17
through books and documentaries. His asshole
42:20
actions are modest. He exaggerated a personal
42:24
experience into pseudoscience, monetizing it
42:27
without strong evidence, but causing little direct
42:29
harm. Overall, I gave him a get a 26. He scored
42:33
very high in grift. And this is because I went
42:37
back and listened to the episode, and we went
42:39
to his website, and he literally has interview
42:42
pricing on his website of $5 ,000 for an episode.
42:48
And... At the same point, he also put on that
42:52
listing of things that you can pay him to do
42:55
was to get him to fly you places. And it was
42:59
significantly cheaper to get him to fly you places.
43:02
And I totally forgot about that. And like his
43:05
story was like, I flew into this fog and then
43:08
I got to Miami slightly faster than I was expecting.
43:12
Like, that's it. But he originated electronic
43:14
fog. He says he came up with it. He's the first
43:17
person to use it. So his legacy was high. His
43:20
grift is nine. I gave him fairly low arm, three.
43:24
Vibes, three. Deception and Fabrication, four.
43:28
Because, yeah. Yeah, see, he's low on my list.
43:32
Just because he flew under my radar for everything,
43:35
pretty much. Yeah, and the only reason he ended
43:38
up where he did on my list, because I went and
43:39
re -listened to it, and I was like, wait, he
43:40
has some pretty high grit. Yeah, you know what?
43:43
And I didn't remember the grift about him, but
43:45
you're right. He should be higher on my list.
43:48
But deception and fabrication to me was low -ish.
43:51
That could happen. Like, it's not lying, really.
43:55
Like, nothing was, like, completely out of source.
43:57
Like, you got somewhere on a different, like,
44:00
slightly different timeline than... It wasn't
44:02
even a huge timeline. It was just slightly different.
44:05
No, but it's the fact that, like, he made an
44:07
entire career out of this. Like, he pushed...
44:09
I don't know that he actually did. make a career
44:12
out of it though. He was on 50 different documentaries.
44:17
Was he? Yeah. And he said it was $5 ,000 for
44:21
him to sit down for a documentary. So like that
44:23
was on his schedule. Maybe. But we also don't
44:26
know if he actually ever got paid for any of
44:27
those. Yeah. Maybe he should be higher on it
44:30
then. Okay. I'll rank him higher on Griff, which
44:34
will put him slightly higher. But I mean, he
44:36
was fairly low. Maybe it's just because I forgot
44:39
him. Yeah. And that he is very easily forgettable.
44:41
Yeah. And he's actually incredibly low on Copilot.
44:44
They have him at 43 with a score. I can't find
44:48
their description, but Chelsea already gave you
44:50
their description. So that's fine. But I think
44:53
that's where we cut it off because we're at an
44:55
hour already and we've covered 10 guys so we
44:58
can keep going. Oh my gosh. I can't believe that
45:00
was 10 guys. We have done so many assholes. And
45:03
with that, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.
45:05
We are journey to the fringe. Thank you all for
45:07
listening. We'll see you next week. Thank you
45:09
for listening to Journey to the Fringe. If you
45:12
have liked what you have listened to, please
45:14
like, share, subscribe, or follow depending on
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what venue you are listening to us through. Also,
45:21
please, if possible, leave a five -star review
45:24
as that really helps us in the algorithms. Should
45:27
you wish to interact with us, please check us
45:29
out on your social media of choice. I bet you
45:32
we are there. And if you really want to communicate
45:35
with us and give us ideas for new episodes or
45:38
tell us that were wrong and terrible either way
45:40
please send us an email at journeytothefringe
45:43
at gmail .com for now I'll see you in the next
45:46
episode Thank you for listening to Journey to
58:48
the Fringe. If you have liked what you have listened
58:50
to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow
58:54
depending on what. venue you are listening to
58:57
us through. Also, please, if possible, leave
58:59
a five -star review as that really helps us in
59:03
the algorithms. Should you wish to interact with
59:05
us, please check us out on your social media
59:08
of choice. I bet you we are there. And if you
59:11
really want to communicate with us and give us
59:13
ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're
59:15
wrong and terrible, either way, please send us
59:18
an email at journeytothefringe at gmail .com.
59:22
For now, I'll see you in the next episode.