Latest / Brian Thomas / Don Heinrich Tolzmann - Latest Books

Transcript

Don Heinrich Tolzmann - Latest Books · Brian Thomas

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: 729, 55 KRC Detox Station. Good chunk of the show
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: dedicated to German history. We start with Herr Toltzman, Don
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Heinrich Toltzman, our resident German expert with a couple of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: new books he's got on German heritage and history as
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: it's related to the city of Cincinnati. And then after
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the top of the hour news, Donna Schwab and Oktoberfest
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: folks are in the studio to talk some Genieslichkeit and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: give us the info about the Oktoberfest this weekend. Herr Toltzman,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the 55 KRC Morning Show. It's always
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you on the program.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Guten Morgen. It's good to talk to you. And
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I'd like to begin by thanking Joe Strecker, who is
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: a Dona Schwab, for getting me scheduled. It's always good
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: to talk to him. And he's going to be out
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: at the Dona Schwab Oktoberfest on the weekend. And I
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: and my wife will be there tomorrow. We've been longtime
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: members of the Dona Schwab Society. And our granddaughter will
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: be there on Sunday because in the clubhouse they also
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: sell gently used German folk clothing, dirndls, lederhosen, and so on.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: So our whole family will be there. And tomorrow they
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: have the grand parade opening ceremony. And one thing I
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: would like to mention before I talk about my books, too,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: is also– Dona Schwaben sausage is available at Dona Schwaben.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: It's the only place you can buy it, and it's
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: made according to a special recipe, and I'm sure your
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: guests will talk more about it. If they're out there,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: wait a second.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Hold on. If they're out there and they're listening right
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: now and they're not bringing some of that with them,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: it's time to turn around, go back to where the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: sausage is, grab some, and bring it into the studio,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: although I've Heaven on good authority they're bringing that with
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: them because they know how much I love it. You
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: are right, man, and I'm glad you brought that up.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That right there is reason enough to go to the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Donner Schwab and Oktoberfest this weekend.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: You can only get it there, and it's homemade.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I know.
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  Speaker 2: It's an old country recipe. I mean, it's ten times
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: better than regular, in my view, Brats and Mets. Homemade
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  Speaker 2: Donner Schwab and sausage.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not to negate the goodness of a
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: traditional Brater Met, which I love, but no, this is
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a completely different realm.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's... It's great. And, of course, great brew. But, again,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: one thing I'd like to mention, too, you can get
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: German clothing there, too, if you don't have a pair
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of lederhosen or dendel. I mean, as a matter of fact,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I donated a German suit. So, I mean, it's just
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: a great event all the way around and in a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: beautiful location and park. Very nice.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: What is a, definitionally speaking, what is a German suit,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Herr Toltzmann?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a traditional folk clothing, and it has different tailoring,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: a different collar and lapels, and just overall different tailoring
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: and design that identifies it. And according to region, because
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Germany is very regional, so it's a Bavarian style. Okay.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: And just like lederhosen are Bavarian. Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a question for you, and I suppose
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  Speaker 1: German suit as opposed to one from Savile Row. But
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in terms of lederhosen, there are a whole bunch of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: different types of leather pants out there, depending on region, correct?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: That is true. I mean, there are lederhosen that are short.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: There are some that come down to the knees, and
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: then some that go over the knees. There are kniebundhosen.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So there are various types and varieties. And it's... Basically
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  Speaker 2: a Bavarian style, but for the different regions and towns
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  Speaker 2: and so on and villages, you can detect where the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: origin might be for folk clothing. Okay.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Because I have one pair of lederhosen that I had
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  Speaker 1: given to me, and I wore them one time, and
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  Speaker 1: a guy walked up to me with the three-quarter length
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of the over-the-knee length. He said, you got the wrong
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  Speaker 1: lederhosen on for this October festival. I'm like, what, what? Hey, man,
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  Speaker 1: you're looking at a guy who doesn't have any German
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  Speaker 1: heritage in him. I just love hanging out with these
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  Speaker 1: German folks because they're a riot. Good party. Oh, and
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  Speaker 1: I will, a props to Don Holtzman. I can just
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: say out loud, you know, who looks really hot in
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  Speaker 1: a dirndl? My wife.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I remember it. And I hope you get out
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  Speaker 2: this weekend, too. And, you know, the full clothing, it's
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  Speaker 2: just very interesting. It just drives. reflects the German heritage.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And Dona Schwaben, too, the men usually wear a dark
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: black vest and black pants. It's folk clothing that goes back, actually,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: to the 18th century. The dirndls reflect Dona Schwaben colors
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  Speaker 2: in their dress, so they are distinct. And they're a
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  Speaker 2: very important part of the German heritage, and they bring
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of enthusiasm to the community. And so, you know,
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  Speaker 2: My wife and I will be glad to be there,
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  Speaker 2: and our granddaughter and family will be out there on Sunday. So, Brian,
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  Speaker 2: we hope to see you. And I talked to Harry Strecker.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: He said he's coming out tomorrow. Oh, great. So we
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  Speaker 2: hope to see him.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And his family is Donut Schwaben, too.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: That's right. I don't think we have anything going on
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  Speaker 1: this weekend, so the likelihood of me being there is
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  Speaker 1: pretty damn strong, Don, I have to tell you that.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Because you've already got me thinking about these sausages and
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  Speaker 1: beer and women in dirndl's. Don Holtzman, don't go away.
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  Speaker 1: We'll talk about your books coming up next. It's 735
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: right now, 55 KRC Detox Station. Foreign Exchange, get your
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: car up to Westchester. Foreign Exchange, Westchester, KRC Detox Station.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Brian Thomas with what I like to call our resident
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: German expert. He doesn't live here, but he is Herod
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Don Heinrich Toltzman. He is an author of books, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: we've got a couple of new ones to talk about. First,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: let's start with the first description of Cincinnati and other
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Ohio settlements. It's subheading the travel report of Johann Holtzman.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Hackenwalder from 1792. We're going way back on this one. Plus,
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  Speaker 1: it has an introduction by H.A. Radiman, who is someone
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of note. Maybe you should explain, before we dive in,
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  Speaker 1: some of the details on the first description of Cincinnati.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Who is H.A. Radiman, and why is he important to
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  Speaker 1: this book?
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  Speaker 2: He was a German-American historian here who wrote and published
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  Speaker 2: many books. He edited a journal called The German Pioneer,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and he was head of a German insurance company, and
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the building that housed his company is on Walnut Street
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  Speaker 2: and over the Rhine. It's called the Germania Building. So
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: he was a very prolific author, and he found and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: translated a report that was written by Johann Heckeweller. He
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: was a German-Moravian missionary, and he traveled down the Ohio
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  Speaker 2: River in 1792. And of course, Fort Washington had been
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: opened in 1790. So it was a relatively new area
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  Speaker 2: coming here on the frontier. And Rotterman found that a
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  Speaker 2: German report was published in Germany. He translated, but was
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: never published. And then in doing my research, and I'm
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: always working on looking up materials that highlight the German
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: dimension of our area. And I always stress that if
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you don't understand the German heritage, you don't really understand
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: our area, because it's just, you find it everywhere you go.
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  Speaker 2: A good example are all of our Oktoberfest celebrations. But
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  Speaker 2: in any event, this report was published in Germany. It
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: was a positive report, and it was read widely in Germany.
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  Speaker 2: And so People always ask me, well, why do people
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  Speaker 2: come here? Well, one of the reasons they came early
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  Speaker 2: on in the 1800s was because of this report, which
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: describes what it was like here. Now, it does describe
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  Speaker 2: the conditions then. It was a rugged time period at
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  Speaker 2: that time. There was danger from the Indians at the time.
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  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, the opening sentence describes somebody
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  Speaker 2: getting scalped outside of the fort and how muskets were fired,
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  Speaker 2: but the Indians just proceeded with scalping. And also he
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  Speaker 2: describes coming down the Ohio River. That was a dangerous
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  Speaker 2: thing at that time because around every bend of the
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: corner you might get attacked. And so Heckewelder describes those conditions.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that you had to be very careful, but
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: he does describe the beautiful landscapes all the game. Even
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: at that time, there were still bears in the area.
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  Speaker 2: But I mean, there was a lot of game here
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  Speaker 2: and there was land that was available. And of course,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: in the old country, farms were relatively small, 30, 40 acres.
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  Speaker 2: But here you could acquire a great deal of land.
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  Speaker 2: So it's interesting that he describes the early settlement. At
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  Speaker 2: that time, there were about 900 people here in the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: early settlement. There was about 200 men at the fort.
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  Speaker 2: And he describes all the settlers that were coming here.
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  Speaker 2: And there were pioneers that were coming from the east.
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  Speaker 2: And there were also, he describes the good and the
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  Speaker 2: bad and the ugly. Because at that time, if you
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  Speaker 2: got into trouble or did something that wasn't right, What
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: people didn't in those days, they could always say they
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  Speaker 2: could escape to the frontier, come out west, come out like,
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  Speaker 2: for example, to Fort Washington in Cincinnati, and you could
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  Speaker 2: reinvent yourself. and other, you know, so that happened a lot,
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  Speaker 2: but there were a lot of pioneers that came out
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  Speaker 2: here and they acquired land and helped build the area.
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  Speaker 2: And the, uh, location here along the Ohio river, it
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  Speaker 2: reminded them of the Rhine and they felt right, right
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  Speaker 2: at home. They even call this area, the American Rhineland. So, uh, Again,
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  Speaker 2: this was so important, too, for describing the area and
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: being the very first description. It'll let you know what
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  Speaker 2: was it like when pioneers came here, what was it like,
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  Speaker 2: how dangerous was it. I mean, you wouldn't want to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: wander far from the fort. For example, from Fort Washington
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  Speaker 2: on the riverfront, if you wandered up, around where you
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: see is located, well.
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  Speaker 1: You'd be killed.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: You could be killed.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know who else wrote about this? Maybe a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: good companion book is the one by Peter Bronson, Promised Land,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: How the Midwest Was Won. I am talking about that.
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  Speaker 1: I read that book, and oh my God, if you
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: walked out of the fort, typically there were Native Americans
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  Speaker 1: lurking in the woods that would do anything they could
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  Speaker 1: to either kidnap you or kill you.
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  Speaker 2: That's very true. Peter Bronson, he's a good friend of mine.
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  Speaker 2: He's a great guy. I'm glad you mentioned that, because
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: he describes... what kind of things could happen to you
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: if you got captured. And there are things that you
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: couldn't even go into detail because they were so gruesome.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And what was happening then, too, relates to my other
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: book about the first mayor of Cincinnati, David Sigler, when
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: he came here because, well, when Cincinnati was formed, this
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: was after the American Revolution, but it's not generally well
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: known that although England lost the war, the Revolutionary War,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: nothing changed in the Northwest Territory. And I mean by
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: nothing changed. Britain kept its fort, Fort Detroit. They had
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: trappers and traders, honeycombs throughout Ohio, and they supplied food, weapons,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: clothing to the Indians and encouraged them to attack these settlers. Now,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: we could have had a peaceable frontier, but the British
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: fomented these problems because they did not accept that they
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: had lost the Revolutionary War, and also they valued the
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: fur trade, which was very important at that time. And
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: all of these things, they eventually percolated over into the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: War of 1812, which is really called the Second American Revolution,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: because Britain did not accept the defeat.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Well, can I draw a modern-day parallel, Don? The Native
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Americans were sort of, I guess, proxy terrorist organizations for
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the British. They got them to kill settlers. They were, and.
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  Speaker 2: I often think that maybe the frontier story could have
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: been peaceable if there had been a different case and
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: scenario of the British involvement. It wasn't until the War
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: of 1812, and of course that goes into another topic,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: but the British even occupied Washington, D.C. and burnt it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: So they finally had to admit defeat, but In the
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: time period we're talking about, 1790s, it was a rugged area,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and also Peter Bronson, who you mentioned, he did describe
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: that area. This other book that is on the first
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: mayor of Cincinnati, and I don't know how widely that's known,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: but the first mayor was a German immigrant. He He
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: came here at age 27 in 1775, and he had
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: served in the Prussian Army, which at that time was
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: the best army actually in Europe. And he, like many soldiers,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: they were excited about the American Revolution and the freedoms
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and liberties and everything. He wanted to come to the
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: new world, just like Baron von Steuben did. And the
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Continental Army, which was the American Army, counted on these
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: soldiers so much because they had military experience. They had
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: studied at military academies. And so when he came here
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: in 1775, things were just percolating and getting into, boiling
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: over into the revolution. And he'd joined a Pennsylvania regiment.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And he was at Valley Forge with Baron von Steuben
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: and George Washington. And the book tells about the first mayor.
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  Speaker 2: It's his biography and his experiences in the Prussian army
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and when he first came here and what it was like.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And also, At the end of the Revolution, the Continental
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Army was disbanded, but that is when the U.S. Army
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: was created. And that's what David Segal, he joined the U.S. Army.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: And the major reason it was formed at that time
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: was to protect the settlers and pioneers on the frontier
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: in Ohio. That's why it was formed. Because they had
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to protect it. And along the Ohio River, beginning in Marietta,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: you had forts. And the fort in our area, Fort Washington,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: was built and opened in 1790 to protect the people.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: And so he was involved with that with all the soldiers.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And when he came here, there was one company in
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: his regiment that was— Pennsylvania Germans. And what was important
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: about the soldiers at the fort, well, after their tour
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: of duty, they didn't go back to Pennsylvania. They stayed
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: here and lived here. And Siegler, he opened a store here.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And then he was so widely respected, he was elected
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the first mayor of the town. And later on, President
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Jefferson appointed him as the a Marshal of Ohio and
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: an Adjutant General. And over the Rhine, there is a
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Ziegler Park that honors him, also in Memorial Hall, which
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: is a great place to visit if you want to
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: see a lot of memorials to soldiers from our area.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: It was founded to salute soldiers in Hamilton County.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: That's a great facility. Well, we're out of time here. Hello, Toltzman.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The first description of Cincinnati and other Ohio settlements, a
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: travel report of Johann Heckewelder and the first mayor of Cincinnati,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: George Katzenberg's biography of Major David Ziegler, both edited by
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Don Heinrich Toltzman. Appreciate you being on the program. Appreciate
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you documenting Cincinnati's history and its connection with the German heritage.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I know my German heritage friends would be very interested
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: in reading it. And not so esoteric, others and fans
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of history will not also enjoy it. Reading it. So
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I heard Holtzman. See you at the Oktoberfest this weekend.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your time this morning, and thanks.