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Kunst Speak With Brask - Shirin Neshat · Kunst Speak With Brask

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back Thursday, new podcast every Thursday, Can't Speak with Bresk.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We are still in New York. We're going to see
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Sharin Nassat. She is right now at the Venice B
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and L. I'm looking forward to see sharing talk to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: her and of course see what's new. Thank you for
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: listening to can Speak with BSk. Thank you so much
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: for taking your time. We are in your studio in
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Brooklyn and you just had a photo shoot with the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: young generation of a new photographer, isn't that correct.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, her name is Kiara and she's studying at ICP
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  Speaker 2: International Center for Photography, and she's doing a series of
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  Speaker 2: artists woman artist portraits and yesterday she did John Jonas
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  Speaker 2: and today me and I'm just very happy to be
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  Speaker 2: able to provide the opportunity and just I enjoyed it
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  Speaker 2: a lot.
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  Speaker 1: And you know her mother as well, right.
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  Speaker 2: Her mother is Nancy Spector, the chief curator at the
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  Speaker 2: Guggenham Museum for years and years and now she's an
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  Speaker 2: independent curator.
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  Speaker 1: I like the way the Americans help each other. So
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  Speaker 1: you know, the mother and the mother ask can my
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  Speaker 1: daughter take a photo of you? And of course you said.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, And it's really about the community and all of
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  Speaker 2: us just looking up for each other.
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  Speaker 3: And it always interests.
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  Speaker 2: Me to pay attention to the younger artists who are
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  Speaker 2: trying something.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we're looking forward to follow her and see
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  Speaker 1: what will happen with her. And of course the picture
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  Speaker 1: of you, we had a sneak view for fifteen minutes.
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  Speaker 1: It looked pretty amazing. What does the story with all
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  Speaker 1: these many king hits around in your studio?
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  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I have made three new videos, yes that
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  Speaker 2: actually the premiere would be at the next Venice Biennial
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  Speaker 2: in May of twenty twenty six. And all of these
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  Speaker 2: mannequins were used in the production design for the videos.
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  Speaker 3: So it's a trilogy of three videos. Uh.
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  Speaker 2: And there's this constant relationship between reality and the artificial,
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  Speaker 2: a real woman and mannequins, And so we have the
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  Speaker 2: scenes of a very surreal you know, setup of a
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  Speaker 2: like a week shop where the mannequins sort of come
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  Speaker 2: alive and they cry and there's blood and there's the capita.
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  Speaker 2: So all the three films going to realism and surrealism.
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  Speaker 2: And sometimes we are on the streets black and white
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  Speaker 2: with her, and sometimes we're in color in the artificial world.
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  Speaker 1: And are the videos too shot in you here in
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  Speaker 1: your studio or no, they're shot.
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  Speaker 2: In Actually we had three different locations. One of them
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  Speaker 2: was in Bushwick, book on Where I Live, which is
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  Speaker 2: mostly immigrant communities, Banic immigrants and mostly poor community of immigrants.
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  Speaker 2: Then we shot in the suburbs of Long Island, and
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  Speaker 2: then we shot in Wall Street, which is kind of
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: represents a more corporate landscape. So for me, it was
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  Speaker 2: very particular that we should in three very different socioeconomic
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  Speaker 2: landscapes in New York area. And then of course the
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  Speaker 2: artificial spaces where we rented a studio where we set
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  Speaker 2: up in Bushwick.
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  Speaker 1: When you do mixing and what you all do in
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  Speaker 1: the film, you have a studio out here you can
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  Speaker 1: mix and caut and do everything right.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, we have an editing studio here. We also record sounds,
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  Speaker 2: We do photography here. The studio is used for also
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  Speaker 2: the work I do with calligraphy. We have also shot
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  Speaker 2: many videos here, but a lot of my work deals
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  Speaker 2: with exterior space, so we do that. But it's very
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  Speaker 2: self sufficient and here we live and work in the
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: same place and at the moment, as you saw, my
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  Speaker 2: husband is editing one of the videos, so we're constantly
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  Speaker 2: there is no real separation between life and art.
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  Speaker 1: I love that. So you live and live and we shoot.
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  Speaker 2: Where we lived in the area, and a lot of
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  Speaker 2: the local people are inside the video.
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  Speaker 1: All interesting.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we shot a lot of the local people as
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  Speaker 2: well as people we cast.
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  Speaker 1: And you also, like you said, when you're doing your
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  Speaker 1: photos with the calligraphy, and you also do them here, right, Yes, I.
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  Speaker 3: Have a few assistants. They come.
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  Speaker 2: We just finished some new photography that we sent out
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  Speaker 2: for exhibition, so yes, you know, we only do that
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  Speaker 2: of course when we're doing exhibitions, but at the moment
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  Speaker 2: at Venice, I'm only showing videos, so I'm only focusing
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  Speaker 2: on video editing.
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  Speaker 1: And in the nineteen ninety nine you got a reward
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  Speaker 1: at Venice, right, and a lot of mon Ten years later.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it was the Film Festival in two thousand and
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  Speaker 2: nine Women with that man got the Silver Lion for.
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  Speaker 3: The Best Director.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, it was interesting because in nineteen ninety nine
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  Speaker 2: I got the Golden Lion from the Art Biennial and
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  Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine I got the Silver line
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  Speaker 2: from the Film Festival, so it was very exciting. I
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  Speaker 2: think Venice for me has been pivotal in terms of
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  Speaker 2: you know where the most significant things that happened in
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  Speaker 2: my career happened in Venice.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting, and now we go back, Now we.
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  Speaker 2: Go back in twenty twenty six. We have a palazzo
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  Speaker 2: in that it's one of the collateral exhibitions, so it's
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  Speaker 2: a very beautiful old palazzo and three different videos will
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  Speaker 2: be shown in three different rooms. I'm very interested to
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  Speaker 2: see how these videos would work in interaction with that
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  Speaker 2: kind of you know, incredible Italian space of palettes, and
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  Speaker 2: the sound would be often Persian speaking and Persian music.
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  Speaker 3: But also you have Bushwack.
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  Speaker 2: Brooklyn and New York showing up, so I think it
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  Speaker 2: could be very powerful. The combination of the work we're
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  Speaker 2: doing in this ornate Italian architecture.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting. And do you which gallery do we work with
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  Speaker 1: about that? Or is you doing that yourself?
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  Speaker 3: Well?
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  Speaker 2: Actually I work with Gladstone Gallery in New York, but
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  Speaker 2: Leo Ruma in Milan it's also participating in this whole
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  Speaker 2: production a Goodman Gallery from London.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, it's a pretty big production, right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean I mostly produced myself, but they
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  Speaker 2: are very much helping, especially Coladstone gallery of putting the
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  Speaker 2: show together as well as lio Roma.
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  Speaker 1: And how long are the videos each of them?
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  Speaker 2: I think each video would be about fifteen minutes long, okay,
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  Speaker 2: but they're interrelated. Same actress placed in all of them.
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  Speaker 2: She's Iranian, and so there's a lot of parallels between Stylistically,
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  Speaker 2: they will be kind of real and surreal, color and
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  Speaker 2: black and white, and they will be about the artificial
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  Speaker 2: versus the reality. And so I think there's a lot
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  Speaker 2: of parallels in all three and I think I'll be
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  Speaker 2: very interested to see how the audience can put the
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  Speaker 2: dots together in terms of the meaning of the work
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  Speaker 2: and what it's trying to convey, walking from room to
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  Speaker 2: room and seeing things that are repeated but also very different.
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  Speaker 1: So they've work together the three videos absolutely, yeah. Interesting.
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  Speaker 2: It is really an experience of an Iranian woman living
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  Speaker 2: in America immigrants as she carries her own baggage as
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  Speaker 2: a human being and her own i would say, emotional
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  Speaker 2: and political dilemma, but at the same time dealing with
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  Speaker 2: the American culture, and it's on dilemma as a society,
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  Speaker 2: and it's good and evil and both in political dimensions
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  Speaker 2: but also in the class system. And here, of course
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  Speaker 2: we're dealing with Bushwick, with a deeply struggling community of
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  Speaker 2: Hispanic community who are many of them are undocumented, at
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  Speaker 2: the risk of being reported. And then you're dealing with
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  Speaker 2: the corporate environment of a great access and you know,
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  Speaker 2: kind of the corporate world in America that's so much
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  Speaker 2: money driven and market driven. And then you're dealing with
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  Speaker 2: the suburbs, which is lower middle class income community. Kind
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  Speaker 2: of an image of America that is very kind of melancholic,
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  Speaker 2: I would say, so through the experience of any immigrant,
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  Speaker 2: you get to travel and visit different facets of American society.
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  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to see the tree once and we
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  Speaker 1: can see if I can see the red line in
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  Speaker 1: these three one all.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a very ambitious project to tell the story
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  Speaker 2: of a woman who happens to be Iranian, an immigrant,
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  Speaker 2: and then tell the story about America and especially at
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  Speaker 2: this moment. So as you know, all of my work
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  Speaker 2: always does this, where you have since running parallel. The
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  Speaker 2: issue is a single human being, an individual, but also
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  Speaker 2: the world and the political reality that is above and
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  Speaker 2: beyond her own little existence.
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  Speaker 1: Always have that in your works. If it's like a movie.
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  Speaker 1: It's like a.
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  Speaker 2: Photographer all so that were just personal. It's much bigger
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  Speaker 2: than one person.
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  Speaker 1: And when you have to do the three videos for venis,
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  Speaker 1: how do you come up with the idea? And what
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  Speaker 1: do you think about? How do I attack this?
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  Speaker 3: Well?
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  Speaker 2: To be very honest, this work is inspired a real
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  Speaker 2: human being that unfortunately she's no longer with us.
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  Speaker 3: Her name is Nascim Artam.
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  Speaker 2: She's this beautiful young Iranian woman who was not Muslim.
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  Speaker 2: She belonged to the minority religion Bowie. So she and
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  Speaker 2: her family had to flee Iran because this religious community
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  Speaker 2: gets persecuted in Iran. So she came as a refugee
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  Speaker 2: to the US and lived in southern California in the suburbs,
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  Speaker 2: which is deeply melancholic in my opinion. And slowly she
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  Speaker 2: found herself very isolated in America, very displaced, and she
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  Speaker 2: started to pull herself herself away more and more from
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  Speaker 2: the world, and she started to create this amazing little
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  Speaker 2: videos in her room.
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  Speaker 3: Secretly where she acted in it.
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  Speaker 2: She wrote the lyrics, she made the music, she filmed
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  Speaker 2: them herself, she edited them there and then secretly uploaded
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  Speaker 2: them to her YouTube channel and in social media before.
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  Speaker 3: We knew it. She became very popular.
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  Speaker 2: She had millions of followers, but nobody knew that she
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  Speaker 2: literally had no friends and she all she did was
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  Speaker 2: stay in this room and make these videos. Unfortunately, YouTube
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  Speaker 2: cut off her channel and took away all the videos
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  Speaker 2: for whatever reason. They were mainly there was a lot
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  Speaker 2: of dancing and music, but also she was a political activist.
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  Speaker 2: She she also was against animal cruelty, etc. But for
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  Speaker 2: some reason they disconnected it. And at this point, for
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  Speaker 2: a person who was really battling with connecting with the world,
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  Speaker 2: when her only connection to the world was cut off,
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  Speaker 2: she took guns and she actually ran away from home
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  Speaker 2: and the next day she went to YouTube headquarters and
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  Speaker 2: she attacked the staff and ultimately she turned the gun
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  Speaker 2: to herself and she shot herself and died. And this
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  Speaker 2: is really a tragedy. Fortunately nobody died at YouTube, but
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  Speaker 2: it's really about a sickness of people who it could
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  Speaker 2: be mental illness, but also seriously a political issue for her,
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  Speaker 2: where she had to flee her own country because she
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  Speaker 2: was worried about being persecuted, and then she died at
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  Speaker 2: the footsteps of you know, a corporation of an American
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  Speaker 2: Corporation because of censorship, and she couldn't deal with the world,
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  Speaker 2: and she had no friends, but she had millions of fans.
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  Speaker 2: You know, she had no She always dressed like a boy,
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  Speaker 2: almost like she had no.
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  Speaker 3: It was very masculine.
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  Speaker 2: And then she was extremely beautiful and sexual in front
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  Speaker 2: of the camera. So there was all these contradictions, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, she she ultimately loved the virtual world as
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  Speaker 2: opposed to the real world. So these three videos are
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  Speaker 2: exploring some of the teams that a person such as
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  Speaker 2: her had to deal with, the contradictions between the inner world,
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  Speaker 2: the outer world, the virtual space, the reality, and the
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  Speaker 2: political landscapes that really affected her, both from Iran and
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  Speaker 2: the US, and how she ultimately was a victim, you know,
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  Speaker 2: a deeply misunderstood person. But also that she was an artist,
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  Speaker 2: she was a creator, so you.
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  Speaker 3: Know, it's really inspired by that.
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  Speaker 2: And also I'm hoping that I would eventually make a
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  Speaker 2: feature documentary film about her.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Really interesting. And you heard, of course, of the story
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  Speaker 1: that she attacked. YouTube had been.
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  Speaker 2: Obsessed with her since she died in twenty eighteen, and
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  Speaker 2: this became a big news all over. You know, even
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  Speaker 2: President Trump said something's about her, but she's not really
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  Speaker 2: known among Iranian people. She died when she was only
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: thirty eight years old, and I'm in touch with her family.
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  Speaker 2: But for the art world and for the Venice Show,
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  Speaker 2: it's more of an obscure reference to her. Because in
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: the feature film that I hope to make, it would
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: take a kind of a conceptual approach to documentary and
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: we would use her archival footage. But in this because
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: you know, so much of my work also deals with
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  Speaker 2: these notions of dualities, So much of my work are
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: so personal but also so political, and so I think
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  Speaker 2: my obsession with her is that she reminds me so
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: much of myself.
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  Speaker 3: It's almost like.
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  Speaker 2: Also like a mental illness, you know, where your kind
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: of this manic depression. And you'll see in this in
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  Speaker 2: these videos that we're dealing with the characters at once
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  Speaker 2: very masculine and then very feminine, and then very animated
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  Speaker 2: and alive and very melancholic, you know, And that's a
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  Speaker 2: little bit also about me.
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  Speaker 3: So it's really a.
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  Speaker 2: Combined stories of me and her together, which I hope
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  Speaker 2: to explore more in the future. And you know that
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  Speaker 2: many of my work are more comfortable in the kind
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: of magic realism like women without men, and I generally
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  Speaker 2: don't do very well in realism, so this was really perfect.
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  Speaker 3: Approach for me.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, really interesting. And when you do movies like this,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: they will be for sale, right, we will sell them?
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  Speaker 1: And how many are they made? In many copies of them?
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  Speaker 3: So this is a trilogy. I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: It would be very interesting if a I think there
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  Speaker 2: is one museum in India that is interested in acquiring
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  Speaker 2: the trilogy, which means three different work because they really interconnected.
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  Speaker 2: But then I really believe that each video would stand
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: on its own.
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  Speaker 1: So you can buy each of them. You don't have
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to buioltry believe that to be honest.
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  Speaker 2: It's a conversation to have to have in the future.
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  Speaker 2: But each video normally has editions of five and things
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  Speaker 2: like that.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and is it also called artist proofs in video? Yes, okay,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it's the same.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And there over, our title is called do you There?
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Do You There?
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Do You There?
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  Speaker 1: Very interesting, So hopefully the next thing you're working on.
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  Speaker 2: With this is my documentary about working a lot on opera.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I just finished a major opera in Paris Opera House
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  Speaker 2: in Pastill.
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  Speaker 3: It opened in September.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm coming from three years of working on an.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Opera, which is Aida.
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  Speaker 2: It opened September twenty fourth, and now I'm living in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: December to do another opera in Italy, in Parma Ofel.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So my time has been mainly spent on this video
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: triology and these two operas.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: And how does it work with an opera? Does the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: opera house cold write you what even say? Do you
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: want to do it? House? At working well?
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  Speaker 2: Aida is a project that I started with a Salzburg
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: music festival back in twenty seventeen, and then it was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: repeated in twenty twenty two and the Paris Opera House
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: acquired it. So now it's going to stay there. It's
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: going to me out every two years. But I took
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the liberty to change a lot for Paris because that
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: was the final staging, the final rendition of it. So
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I spent six weeks in Paris and and it was
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: just incredible.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: So I directed it.
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  Speaker 2: And I, you know, I really enjoyed it because it
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is like everything that I do but live. You know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: there's videos, every every sets, a tableau. You know, it's
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: this choreography of people, the image and music.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: It's fantastic.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So I think I'm slowly falling in love with the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: medium of opera. And now the next one or phil
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: would be an hour and a half, because I either
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: it was three hours.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So it involves collaboration with stage designer, with singers, with product,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: you know, with costume designers, with drum tourists, with the conductor,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and so it's an enormous journey, and every one of
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: them it takes years to really stage.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Of course, and you go there, like you said, superus
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: for some months and do it right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And now I'm living in December for six weeks
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  Speaker 2: to Italy for this.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And then back to Italy again for.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: The VI here to finish the videos.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and then two but you know, we've been
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: working on these videos. We shot the first one in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and then the second and third one
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. One of them was already finished in
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, so it's been a really long process.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I take a long time to do anything. I never
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: do anything I either opera. It started in twenty seventeen,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: and so it really I take a lot of time.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: When you are doing did the triology did you know
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: it was going to be tree and did you know
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: that how old three was going to be or is
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: it something work at the progress? How is it working?
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  Speaker 3: It really was like a trilogy. I've done other times.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember my video Turbulent, which
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: was in Venice that won the Golden Lion Turbulent Rapture.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And further, they made a trilogy which.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Was a theme of men and women, masculine and feminine,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and it was really important parallels. But they were each
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: very different. So occasionally I work in trilogy. I also
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: did another one called Dreamers, so yes, and particularly this
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: one is stylistically they're very similar and the story is
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: very connected. I enjoy it because it takes very long time,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: but you tend to work with the same actress, with
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the same team of cinematographers and production design, and so
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: there's a continuity of production, which I really like because
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: it takes.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: A long time to put it together.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: It must have, but Venice would be the first time
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: that we see it all together for the first.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Time, and in peak screams, not like in a smaller
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: scream or anything. Are you going to do something like that?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do view something before we go
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: there or will you just do like a test view
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: in the Venice.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Just for Venice, it would be the premiere. And I
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: think after that, of course, we will never have this
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: opportunity to sort of make an intervention with an actual
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: beautiful space, because normally galleries and museums are just a box,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: you know. So I really I'm very eager to see
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and I've seen occasionally where my video art have been
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: shown in churches or in you know, palaces, and I
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: think there is something very powerful when you bring a
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: work of an artist from Islam background shown, especially with
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the kind of music and language sometimes of that origin,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: in the intervention with such beautiful classical European buildings architecture.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I think the last time was in Mosaic Carreer in Italy,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: where I had also some work, and I think it's
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: really it almost doubles the effect because it adds another
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: dimension that you don't have when you show the artists
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: work in just a square of white box. So I'm
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: very interested in this, in this conjunction between this different
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: kind of architectural settings that we filmed in UH and
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the musical work that we have incorporated in the videos.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: In this European space.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Interesting that did you choose the place that it is
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: shows at the venis Pianel or no?
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: The curators Uh, actually I haven't seen it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: We looked at it through images, but it was very
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: lucky because they chose very beautiful and very central. It's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: not a huge palazzo, but it's perfect for us.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter as long as it will show the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: video Thanksgiving Ornate.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: You have beautiful chandeliers and you can imagine paintings and things.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: It's just spectacular.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And do we also do the music for this?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: The music I'm working with, there's a Middle Eastern music
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: by Tunisian composer and singer Emml matth Luti. I've been
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: working with her and also sound designer and we will
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: go in and out of force speaking to English speaking,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: so it would be.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Like an opera, you know, okay, because.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Each video brings you to different landscapes and therefore we
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: have a lot of music that is definitely Middle Eastern.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Sounds amazing and I guess the music will be really
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: loud and you can really feel it everything right.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, we have to work it out because you have
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: three rooms, so.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course they don't have two interfia.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: But the overlap may also be good, I think because
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: in a way the stories overlap, you know, and.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: What is the space to see, like the first one,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: the second one, the third one, like in that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Row is We've been thinking about that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking the one that is shot in Bushwick first,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: and then the second one, the one in Wall Street,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and finally at the suburbs, because the suburbs is where
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: she lives, where we actually finally enter, where she takes
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the information from the world, and then everything culminates in
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: this private space. So some of the elements of the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: past two videos show up in the final suburban space.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Know really interesting. I'm really looking forward to see it
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and see what.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: They They will be good. I don't know. We're still editing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And how do you feel if people leave in the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: middle of one of your videos films?
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Is that I think it's absolutely okay. I mean, because
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I think that and people always say I'm going to
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: come back, and they never come back. I think it's
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: like you really have to respect your audience and for
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: their preference. Maybe some are some people spend the first
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: few minutes and they don't connect.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's that handle.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: You know, you have to give the audience the handle,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and if that handle is not cat by the audience,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: they have every right to exit. You can't force it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's also a matter of taste. Let's say
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I like very emotional work, and I like to appeal
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: to the audience emotionally. But some audience don't like to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: be approached emotionally. They're more rational, you know.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: But I also think it's important that you pay attention
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and the respect to the artists. So if it's only
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, you stay and watch, because all what you
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: have put into these fifteen minutes is I guess hundreds
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: of hours. So if I don't have the patience for
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, I feel that I'm rude because I can't
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: just focus in fifteen minutes and try actually to enjoy it,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: because I would probably learn something absolutely.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: But I mean, even think about our relationship to paintings.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Like when I walk in a gallery and I see
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: something quickly and I say, okay, this is definitely not
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: my style.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't spend a lot of time inu it.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: I go.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: But if I see something that really makes me curious
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and I find like, hmm, there's something really interesting.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Then I really take the time. So it's just it's
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: an intuitive.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Response of the audience, you know what, they establish a
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: relationship or not, and that's the right, that's their license
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to to say, you know, this just doesn't captivate my interest,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and therefore I'm just gonna leave it. Somebody else could
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: come and say, ah, that's really interesting, and that's what's
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: great about the democracy in art, you know. And you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: not everybody has to like the same thing, you know.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: No, of course, how do we have it. If you
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: see some paintings that you don't really like them and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: somebody wants to explain about it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: That's okay. I would be patient about that.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And can you after you've got an explanation maybe see
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I happened.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: To go yesterday to see a lot of shows, and
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of it was painting, actually, and I'm trying
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to be very patient with painting because that's not my miliu,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: you know, But there were some In fact, I saw
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: a Danish artist at a.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Gallery called Green Gallery. Green Gallery, yeah, in Tribeca.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And apparently it's a Danish artist who I don't remember
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the first name, and who lives in farms in farmlands,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: and its paintings are extremely abstract, and it really it
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: reminds me of Roskoll, you know, just like all about
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the light and the moon and the artist. I don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: think it's very famous, you know. I certainly didn't know
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: about this artist. But the owner person was working there,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: came and explained to me about this artist's obsession with landscape.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: And moon and light.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: And these are not the kind of things that I'm
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: usually interested in, but I thought they were extremely spiritually poignant,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you know, very beautiful. So I was really happy to
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: get explanation and dig in.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So the explanation gave you that you actually was beginning
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: to like all of the words.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Mostly And I didn't know anything about the artists. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: didn't know anything about his heritage where he came from.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: It was nice, it was nice too.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And then I went to another gallery where there was
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: a dancer who has passed away since then, African American
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: who is mainly a theater and dance person, but the
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: end of his life or something, he went through painting.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: And these were amazing paintings, all of dancing of kind
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: of clubs in with people dancing with each other and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I was talking to the owner about the you know,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: the history of this artist and now that he passed away,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: this dealer has discovered him. To me, these are really
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: kind of lovely stories about an African American artist, you know.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: After his passes away.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: He's discovered for his paintings, not for his dance. And
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I just was like, that's really exciting.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: So you also go out to see Shoo try.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I think that's every artist's job to keep up with
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: other arts. You cannot just stay in your own zone.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: It's not right. I see a lot of movies at
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: the same time, of course, and.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: You get inspiration. I've seen both movies.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: By the way.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I'm really big in Scandinavian films and filmmakers and artists
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Really.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I think some of the best films are made these
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: days are in Scandinavia.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope that includes them Mark as well.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, del marv Sweden, Norway, Finland. Yes, I mean you
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: have Bergman, you have lares Man Trier in Denmark. He's
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: been hugely influential in me. I remember Breaking the Wave,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: of course, one of the amazing is a masterpiece of
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: the film, and god knows, I think I've seen almost
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: every film by him, some of them like Melancholia is
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: really an astonishing film. I mean, I think he's a
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: very challenging filmmaker. He brings into the film all his
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: own psychosis and madness and.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Should right madness come He's unfortunately not that well anymore.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, all what you have done, he's cv and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: all the movies, everything is so incredible.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that I think Choris Macky from
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Finland also, I think I think he has a lot
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: of issues with drinking and all, but he brings incredible
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: cinema into the world. You know. Yeah, I think that
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I liked artists that bring a lot of themselves and
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: their own madness I would say, into their work, and it's.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Very powerful when it works.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, it's sometimes becomes very tragic when it becomes very
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: obsessive and intense.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Time is running in a good company. So I would say,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy to speak with you, and thank you
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: for asking all the right questions.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you for your time. I'm
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: looking forward to see the three ones I have the
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: discussion after that. Ye, thank you, another great visit again,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So please don't honor I have the opportunity to see
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: all these great artists, collectors, odd lovers and do the podcast.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to go and speak
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: with Bresk. See you next Thursday.