Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 27-28) (10/25/26)

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Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 27-28) (10/25/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're heading back out to Idaho to check
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: in on day number 27 of the Chad Daybell trial.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: This article was published by eastidahonews.com, and the author of
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: this article is Nate Eaton. 8.20 a.m. It's day 27
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of the Chad Daybell murder trial. The first person in
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: line this morning, a man from Provo, Utah, got here
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: at 4.05 a.m. I arrived at the courthouse around 5.30 a.m.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Far less people here today compared to yesterday, but most
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of the benches will still be full. 8.21 a.m. Joseph Murray,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Chad's son-in-law, will be back on the stand first thing
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: this morning. 8.27 a.m. Larry Woodcock and Vicki Hoban, Tammy
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Daybell's aunt, are in the courtroom today. John Pryor's chatting
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: with Rob Wood and Ingrid Beatty. Chad's sitting at the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: defense table alone. 8.30 a.m. Rocky Wixom and Lindsay Blake
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: are at the prosecutor's table. Looks like Blake got a haircut.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: After court yesterday. 8.36 a.m. The attorneys are headed back
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: into Boyce's chamber. Chad's wearing a tan plaid shirt with
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: a red tie. 8.41 a.m. As we wait, someone's watch
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: made an alert noise. The bailiff reminds everyone that this
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: is a good reminder to silence all devices. The guy
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: admits it was him rather than trying to hide it. 8.43 a.m.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Boyce is on the bench. Joseph Murray walks in and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: takes the stand. The jurors were just escorted in and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: are seated. 8.46 a.m. Rocky Wixom, Fremont County Deputy Prosecuting Attorney,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: will conduct cross-examination on Joseph. Wixom begins by asking for
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: an exhibit. 8.48 a.m. Wixom begins by asking about the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: loss of Tammy being a traumatic experience for Joseph's wife
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and siblings. Joseph agrees that finding the bodies of JJ
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and Tylee have been traumatic. Joseph says he and his
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: wife have had many conversations over the past few years
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: about the case. 8.49 a.m. Wixom asks if Joseph has
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: had many conversations with his siblings about the case. Joseph
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: says they have talked, but not many conversations. Wixom asks
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: about the attempted shooting of Tammy and Joseph confirms he
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: did not see the shooting. Joseph learned about it from
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a Facebook post that Tammy put up. 8.51 a.m. Wixom
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: asks about Joseph testifying during the grand jury. and yesterday
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: that he has no personal knowledge about the shooting and
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: how it went down. Joseph says that's correct. Wixom asks
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: about Joseph, calling 911. Wixom asks about meeting with Deputy
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Cannon and the fact that Joseph denied he ever heard
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Tammy scream. Joseph says that is correct. 8.54 a.m. Joseph
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: says he believes that Detective Cannon was intentionally inaccurate in
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: his report when Cannon wrote that Joseph heard Tammy scream.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Joseph says he was very clear and what he explained
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to him. 8.55 a.m. Joseph says after he gave his
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: information to Cannon, he had no further conversations with Cannon.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Wixom asked Joseph about him needing to borrow Tammy's truck
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: to help a friend on October 18th. Joseph says it
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: was his in-law's truck. Joseph went to Tammy to get
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the keys. Tammy had the truck at the school where
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: she was working. Joseph got the keys, and when he
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: was done with the truck, he returned them. Chad Daybell
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: gave Joseph the truck In December of 2019, 8.58 a.m.,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Wixom shows an exhibit on the screen. It's a bank
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: account record. It shows that on June 9, 2020, there
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: was an $ 8, 000 deposit into Joseph's checking account. Wixom asks
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: who made the deposit. Joseph says he isn't sure. Wixom
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: asks if it came from Chad. Joseph says yes, it
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: was from Chad. Wixom emphasizes that in December 2019, Chad
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: gave Joseph his truck, and then on June 9th transferred $ 8, 000
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: into his account. And then he had the move into
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: his house. Chad also gave Emma $ 9, 000 in cash that day, 9.01 a.m.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Wixom asked Joseph if he ever met Lori Vallow. He
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: says yes. They met the day after Tammy's funeral at
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Chad's house. Joseph never met Alex Cox and never saw
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Alex on Chad's property. Imagine the day after Tammy's funeral,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: you're out here bringing your skafooza, dirty-ass gumad side piece
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to meet the family of Tammy, her kids, her son-in-law.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Talk about an absolute piece of garbage. 9.03 a.m. Wixom
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: asks about the long driveway Joseph was questioned on yesterday.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Wixom follows up about Joseph testifying that Detective Hermosillo often
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: drove by the property. Wixom asks if it would be
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: unusual that detectives would drive by the property if they
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: assumed bodies were buried there. Joseph says, That would not
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: be unusual, but Hermosillo continued to drive by after the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: bodies were found. 9.06 a.m. Wixom says, wouldn't it be
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: possible that a detective might continue to drive by after
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: two bodies were found buried on a property? Joseph says
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: he didn't think it was necessary. Joseph says he would
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: rather be anything other than in law enforcement. Wixom has
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: nothing further. 9.08 a.m. Pryor back up on the podium
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and shows the bank record. The fourth entry shows $ 8, 000
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: also went to Seth Daybell. Pryor asks if any other
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of Chad's kids got money. Joseph says he believes they
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: all got eight grand. Pryor has nothing further. 9.09 a.m.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Blake asks for a sidebar before the next witness is
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: brought in. 9.13 a.m. Next witness is Dr. Kathy Raven.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: She's board certified in anatomic, clinical, and forensic pathology and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: has worked in the area of forensic pathology for over
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: 25 years. 9.14 a.m. Raven is a medical doctor. She
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: went to medical school and then became a forensic pathologist.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: She practices primarily in California. 9.16 a.m. Pryor asked Raven
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: about her background. She explains her education and training. She
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: has testified in over 300 cases. 9.19 a.m. Pryor retained
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Raven to review the autopsy report and other materials in
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the Daybell case. Pryor has her report and asked her
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to review it. 9.20 a.m. Raven reviewed Dr. Christensen's autopsy
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: report from Utah, photos, law enforcement investigation reports, and more.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: She also reviewed Christensen's testimony. 9.21 a.m. Pryor asked Christensen
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: about her conclusion in this case regarding the autopsy. She
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: explains there are usually five matters of death, homicide, accident, suicide, undetermined,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: or natural. 9.23 a.m. Christensen said she paid close attention
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: to Tammy's autopsy report. She says it was a thorough
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: autopsy and there was nonspecific bruising on Tammy's body. Pryor
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: asks what could have caused the bruises in the arms.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Raven says it's unknown. 9.24 a.m. Raven says there was
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: no anatomical cause of death for Tammy, meaning that all
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: of her organs appeared fine. The toxicology report was extensive
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and nothing they tested was positive, so it's unlikely that
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Tammy was poisoned, unless they used something exotic. What, that's impossible?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: This day and age, How interconnected everybody is? You mean
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to tell me that it's impossible to have some sort
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: of poison of some sort that isn't going to register?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, not likely, but it's possible, right? 9.31 a.m.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Prior asks about someone dying from asphyxia from having someone
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: else sit on their chest. Raven says it would be
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: extraordinarily difficult for a healthy person to die from having
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: someone sit on their chest. 9.32 a.m. Prior asks if
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: there was damage to the neck or throat. Raven says no.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about the difference between her report and Christensen's report,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: where he said asphyxia was a matter of death. She
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: says there is nothing that points to asphyxia, and she
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: believes the cause of death is undetermined. So a battle
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: of the experts, right? Death is undetermined. Okay, fine. But
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: guess what? Those kids were still buried in Chad Daybell's backyard. 9.35am.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about seizures. Raven says there are different types
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of seizures. Large, shaking, and convulsive. With smaller seizures, people
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: might stare into space, make repetitive motions, etc. Pryor asks
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: about arrhythmia, an electrical disturbance in the heart. Raven says
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: you may not see anything at the time of autopsy
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: if someone dies from arrhythmia. 9.37 a.m. Pryor asks about
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: what could have led to Tammy's death. Raven says seizure, arrhythmia,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: other things could have contributed. She says no conclusive or
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: scientific evidence shows how Tammy died. 9.40 a.m. Pryor has
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: nothing further. Lindsay Blake will now conduct cross-examination. 9.41 a.m.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Blake asks Raven if she is a medical examiner. She
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: says she has in the past but is currently an
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: independent contractor. Blake asks Raven if she has investigators who
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: work with her. She is in a coroner office system.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Blake asks who determines whether an autopsy should be conducted.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Raven says it depends. Could be a coroner or a pathologist. 9.43 a.m.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Blake asked about Raven reviewing Tammy's autopsy report and other
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: pertinent information. She asked Raven to list what she has reviewed.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: The autopsy report by Dr. Lily Marsden. Autopsy photos. Toxicology reports.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Brief investigative report from the medical examiner. Typed coroner report.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Fremont County coroner informal record of death. Report from Detective Greenhall.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Seen photos. Report from Detective Mattingly. Fremont County incident report.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Tammy's death certificate. and transcript of Dr. Christensen's testimony. 9.46 a.m.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Raven has reviewed a few other things over the years.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Defense provided her with everything. Blake asks if Raven reviewed
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a report from Lt. Powell requesting Walmart records. Raven says
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that does not sound familiar. Blake asks if she reviewed
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: an interview with Paul or Emily Daybell. Raven doesn't recall.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Blake asked Raven if she reviewed more reports from others,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and Raven doesn't recall. 9.48 a.m. Raven did not review
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the Lolly Cloud account, the FBI analyst report, the season's
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: medical records, or Teton medical records. Blake continues to list
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: other reports that Raven did not review. Pryor objects. Blake
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: responds and says she is reading a list of everything
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: reviewed by the Utah medical examiners. Judge allows Blake to continue.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: She continues to list all the reports to medical examiner reviewed.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: And what Blake's doing here is pointing out that Raven
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the full picture, right? She doesn't have a
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: complete HD view of what's going on. So her recommendations
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: or her opinion, while it's valid, doesn't have all of
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the context needed to give you all the information. And
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that's the point that Blake's trying to slam home. 9.53 a.m.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Raven says there was no structural damage to Tammy's health.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Blake asks about the bruises and putting pressure on someone's chest.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Raven says to die from someone sitting on the chest,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: you would likely need at least 450 pounds of pressure.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Blake asks about other ways someone could die from asphyxia.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: She lists drowning, suffocation, pressure on chest, chemicals, etc. 9.55am.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Raven says you could suffocate someone by putting an object
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: over their mouth. You could also put a plastic bag
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: over their head. Blake has no further questions. 9.57 a.m.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Pryor takes the podium and asks the witness about documents, etc.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: that Blake referenced. He asks if taking into account all
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: other documents is an example of confirmation bias. Raven says
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: she has never looked at such an exhaustive list when
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: determining the cause of death. She bases her findings off
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of scientific evidence. 9.59 a.m. Pryor asks if ruling that
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: a plastic bag over a head or a pillow on
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: face without any evidence Would just be a hunch. Raven
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: says yes. Pryor has nothing further. Morning break. Back in
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: 20 to 30 minutes. All right, so we're going to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: break here as well. And in the next episode, we'll
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: finish off day number 27 of the Chad Daybell trial.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're getting
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: right back to it with the Chad Daybell trial. And
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. Once again,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: this article was published by EastIdahoNews.com, and the author of
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: this article is Nate Eaton. 10.28 a.m. Pryor calls the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: next witness, Regan Price. She takes the stand and Pryor
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: says he plans to admit and exhibit. Regan was a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: neighbor of Chad Daybell's. 10.32 a.m. Pryor asks about Regan
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: reportedly hearing gunshots on September 9th. She says she isn't
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: sure of the date. She contacted law enforcement about a
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: few things that were unusual. She has talked to law
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: enforcement a few times. 10.33 a.m. Pryor goes to play
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: his exhibit, but there appears to be technical difficulties. 10.39 a.m.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Pryor plays a recording of Regan talking to law enforcement
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: on June 9, 2020. You hear her saying she heard
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a gunshot and there was a discussion about raccoons. Regan
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: says she and her husband discussed strange events that happened
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: with the Daybells over the past year. She said they
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: created a timeline to figure things out. 10.42 a.m. Pryor
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: asked Regan about her willingness to wear a wire or
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: work through Joseph Murray to try to find the kids.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked Regan if she engaged in any discussions with
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: police for payment in regarding the Daybell case. Regan says
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Officer K comically said that, not as in taking government funds.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Pryor has nothing further. He's just reaching. And that's because
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: there's nothing to go on for Chad Daybell. There's nothing
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to sink your teeth into if you're a defense attorney.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: So all you can do is hope that loopholes, technicalities,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and perhaps some prosecutorial misconduct pops up. Because short of that,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: there's no way to get a guy like Chad Daybell off. 10.44 a.m.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Ingrid Beatty is cross-examining Regan. She asks about
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Regan hearing a gunshot. Regan doesn't remember the date or
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: time frame of when she heard the shot. just that
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it was before September 9th. Regan says it's common for
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: people to have guns out in the country. 10.45 a.m.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Beatty asks Regan if she ever accepted payment from law enforcement. Never,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: she replies. Beatty has nothing further. Pryor has to redirect. 10.46 a.m.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks a question. Beatty objects. Judge sustains. And Pryor
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: has nothing further. 10.47 a.m. Pryor asks for a sidebar. 10.49 a.m.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Boyce says the defense has two more witnesses scheduled to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: appear today, but they are not here. Boyce says there
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: are some matters that can be taken up outside the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: presence of the jury. Once the witness shows up, the
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: jury will be back. 10.51 a.m. Jurors have left the courtroom.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: He says the exhibits need to be properly identified and
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: marked before being submitted to the jurors. He says that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: it'll take some time with the clerks and court to
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: work through the list. 10.52 a.m. Wixom has another issue.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: He wants to let the court know that after Heather
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Daybell testified, he found a slight inaccuracy in her testimony.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: She was asked on the stand if she had provided
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: information to Detective Hope, and she said no. Wixom found
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: her name in a police report later. Wixom believes this
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: is fairly inconsequential and informed the defense. Pryor agrees this
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: is a non-issue. Boyce says he could bring Heather back
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to testify, but Pryor says this is a non-issue and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: appreciates Wixom's candor. even if it was in the middle
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of the night when he let me know. Boyce is
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: not concerned about the issue. So when you have everybody
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in agreement, obviously it's not going to be an issue
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: for what's happening and for the proceedings moving forward. 10.58 a.m.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: We are headed out of the courtroom until the next
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: witness arrives. 11.06 a.m. In the hallway of the courthouse,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Boyce says defense has two more witnesses today. If you recall,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Pryor said during opening statements that he planned to call
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the following. Chad's children, Dunn, Dr. Kathy Raven, Dunn, Greg, Hampikian,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and Patrick Eller. Hampikian is a DNA expert. Eller is
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a data forensics expert. Those two could be the witnesses
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: this afternoon, 12.35 p.m. We're back in the courtroom. Prosecutors
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: in defense are at their tables and voices on the bench.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Jurors are in their seats. Next witness is Asmir Kararik,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: an investigator with the Idaho Attorney General's Office. 1240 p.m.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Kararik originally worked on the case after former Fremont County
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: prosecutor Marsha Murdoch asked the AG to take over. When
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Blake was elected, she asked for the case back
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and the AG was no longer involved. 1241 p.m. Kararik
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: spent around three hours and 38 minutes talking with Melanie Gibb.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked why the interview took so long. Kararik says
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: he had a lot to discuss and he had a
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: lot of questions for Gibb. Pryor asked Carrerick if he
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: asked anything about Gibb's personal beliefs. Carrerick said he didn't
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: understand a lot of what Gibb was talking about, so
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: he asked a lot of questions. Yeah, imagine walking in
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: cold and asking these people questions. They start explaining light, dark, zombies,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: all this other weird shit that Chad Daybell was pumping
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to him. You might as well be speaking Aramaic. 12.42 PM.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked Carrerick to share some of what Melanie Gibb
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: told him. Carrerick says Gibb spoke about a light and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: dark scale. And she was able to determine whether a
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: person was light or dark. Gibbs spoke about castings and vibrations.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: This interview took place on August 5th, 2020. And I
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: know I've said it before, but I think it's worth repeating.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: These people were all crazy. The whole lot of them.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Anyone who's sitting around here talking about castings and light
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and dark and how these little children are zombies. And
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: if we do this casting, I can use my spiritual
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: sword to sever their so-and-so. I mean, really? Who the
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: fuck's buying any of that nonsense? And if you're buying it,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you're a moron. Point blank, period. 12.44 p.m. Kerarik didn't
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: really understand Gibb's beliefs, so he was learning a lot.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Kerarik said Gibb told him she heard from Chad and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Lori some of the things she was mentioning. After the interview,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Gibb continued to talk without the tape recording. After the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: interview was done, I believe she mentioned that I was
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: nice and a good person. I asked a question of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: where she believes on the scale where I would rate.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: She said that I was on the light side. I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was so light that I was given a light aura. Oh, yeah.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: That's not arbitrary or anything like that, huh? A lot
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of research went into that. Oh, well, look, I could
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: see your aura, so you're part of the light side.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Shut up already. 12.46 p.m. Prior as nothing further, Betty
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: will now cross-examine Kerarik. Betty asks if Gibb told him
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that she created the light or dark scale. Kerarik says
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Gibb did not. Gibb told Kerarik, That Chad would tell
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Lori about the ideas and Lori would convey them to Gibb.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: There are no further questions from either side. Again, Chad
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: being the point of origin for all this bullshit. And
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that's what the prosecution is trying to show. That Chad
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Daybell was at the center of all of this. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it was a gigantic conspiracy to kill Tammy Daybell and
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: those children. So that Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow could
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: be together. 1248 p.m. Next witness is retired Rexburg police
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: detective Rick Schmidt. He takes the stand and Boyce asks
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: for a brief sidebar. 12.50 p.m. Boyce says the jurors
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: need to leave briefly while an issue is discussed. The
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: jurors have left the room. Boyce says Schmidt may have
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: inadvertently heard some child testimony of a previous witness. Schmidt
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: returned home from work and his wife was listening to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: a device. The clip was when Ron Arnold responded to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: John Pryor. I don't know. You own the property. All
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: parties agree that this doesn't create a major issue and
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Schmidt can testify. 1254 p.m. Pryor asks about Schmidt participating
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: in shovel work at the Daybell property on June 9, 2020.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about Schmidt's testimony from Vallow's trial, and he
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: said there weren't any boundaries. Pryor wants to help refresh
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Schmidt's memory by showing him a transcript of his testimony
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: from Vallow's trial. 12.56 p.m. Pryor says when he was
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: given a shovel to go out and look, he responded, yes,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: pretty much. Pryor has nothing further. Rob Wood will now cross-examine,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and Pryor asks for a sidebar. 12.59 p.m. Boyce says
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the term evidentiary hearing was used in a question by Wood.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Boyce tells the jurors to dismiss that and simply go
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: with hearing. Wood begins questioning. He asked Schmidt about the
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: boundary question he received, and if he recalls what that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: was about. Schmidt doesn't remember. Wood provides a transcript to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: refresh his memory. And you'll see a lot of times,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: They'll do that in the courtroom. They'll provide a transcript
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: or they'll provide an exhibit. And you can't testify off
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that exhibit, but you can look at it to refresh
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: your memory. And if you're following along with the Karen
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Reed trial, there has been a whole lot of that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: 101 PM. Schmidt has shown the transcript. Wood asked what
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: he was asked about in relation to boundaries. Schmidt says
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: that was in relation to the grid search. Schmidt was
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: assigned to search the fire pit and Pet Sematary. Wood
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: asked if there are any boundaries in the area. Schmidt
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: says there are no specific boundaries. Wood asked Schmidt to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: clarify about being handed a shovel and walking around. Wood
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: asked Schmidt the first thing he did when he arrived
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: at Daybell's. He doesn't remember the first thing. He was
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: instructed to carry a shovel and walk around. 103 p.m.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Schmidt was told to walk around the property and look
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: for soft spots or areas that look different, he says.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Wood has nothing further and neither does Pryor. 104 p.m.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Pryor says because of travel, Some of his expert witnesses
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: will not be available until tomorrow morning. Court is now
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: in recess. So we're getting down to the end of
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it here, folks. And before you know it, we're going
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to be at the verdict. And if everything goes the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: way I think it's going to go, we're going to
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: see the state of Idaho drop the hammer on Chad Daybell.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: So we'll pick up with a conversation tomorrow after the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: proceedings and after we have some testimony inside the courtroom.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: But that's going to do it for this one. All
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: back to the program. In this episode, we're heading back
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: out to Idaho, and we're going to check in on
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: what went down on day number 28 of the Chad
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Daybell trial. To do that, we're using EastIdahoNews.com, and the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: author of this article is Nate Eaton. 8.29 a.m. Chad
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Daybell is sitting at the defense table with John Pryor,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: At the prosecution's table, Madison County Prosecutor Rob Wood, Fremont
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: County Prosecutor Lindsey Blake, Fremont County Deputy Prosecutor Rocky Wixom,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and Special Prosecutor Ingrid Beatty. 8.37 a.m. Correction, Lindsey Blake
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: is not in the courtroom this morning. Boyce is on
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the bench, and the jurors are in their seats. 8.38 a.m.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Pryor calls Patrick Eller as a witness. He's the CEO
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of Metadata Forensics and a digital forensic examiner. 8.42 a.m.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Metadata Forensics is a consulting and training firm that does
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: digital forensics on devices, expert testimony training for law enforcement, attorneys,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: victim advocates. We examine any device that contains data or
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: any data that's turned over to us, Eller says. 8.43 a.m.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks Eller about his education and training. He's been
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a police officer, served in the Army, and was the
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: command digital forensic examiner for the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Program. 8.45 a.m.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: The last seven years, Eller was in the Army. He
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: helped build out the digital forensic program at Quantico, and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: it was spread across the globe. Eller's company does 25
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to 30 classes a year for legal entities and law
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: enforcement agencies. 8.47 a.m. Eller compares the amount of data
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: people use daily to an iceberg. The 10% you see
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of the iceberg is Shows above the water is what
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: people use day to day. His company focuses on the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: 90% of data below the surface. The in-depth stuff. 8.48am.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks what metadata is. Eller says it's data about data.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: When you see a photo, the metadata is all the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: information that's created the photo. If it's been filtered, cropped,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the date, etc. Everything about the picture. So it's basically
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the DNA of the picture, right? When you look at
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the metadata, it tells you all the stuff that you're
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: looking for, as an investigator. 8.50 a.m. Ehlers says the
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: best source to get information about data on a phone
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: is the actual device itself. He calls it native location data,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: data directly from the phone. You can also use information
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: captured by the phone manufacturer or the operating system on
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the phone, whether it's iOS or Google. 8.52 a.m. Ehlers
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: says if you have an Android phone, you would need
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: to have Gmail account to use the device. Google would
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: have information about you registering the device, what services you're enabled,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and what you've allowed to be stored. 8.53 a.m. Pryor
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: asks about disabling a device. Can you just pull it
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: off and go into settings to turn off location services?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Ehlers says that's one way, but you could also go
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: into your Google account and change the settings. You could
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: just turn the device off to stop sharing information too. 8.54 a.m.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Eller reviewed a lot of data from this case from Google, Apple,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and other sources. Prior asks Eller if he reviewed geofence evidence.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Eller did. Prior asks what geofence evidence is. It's not
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: something Google intended to be used in this manner, but
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: geofence allows you to take a location, put a radius
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: around it, and submit a search warrant in order to
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: gain information about devices that would have passed through that geofence,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: he says. 8.55 a.m. Eller listened to the testimony of
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Rexburg detective David Stubbs and FBI agent Nicholas Balance. Pryor
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: asks Eller to talk about their testimony in relation to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Alex Cox's phone. Eller says in listening to the testimony
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: about how the geofence was done and what was returned
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in the search warrant from Google, he found there were
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: more devices than what were actually requested to be identified. Sorry,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you're not going to change anyone's mind, okay? Alex Cox
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: obviously killed these kids. And you can bring up as
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: many experts as you want to try and poke some
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: holes into the narrative. But the facts are the facts.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: And this isn't one of those cases that's going to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: hinge on a loophole or a technicality. And that's because
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: there's so much evidence here for the authorities to go on. 8.57 a.m.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: On the screen, Pryor shows the search warrant stub submitted
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to Google to provide information about individual device IDs. Eller
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: says when you submit a geofence to Google, They provide
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a list of numbers associated with the geofence. You then
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: need to submit another warrant to get information about the numbers.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Stubbs submitted a warrant to Google for information on 11 IDs.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: 9 a.m. Eller says it appears Rexburg police were trying
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to find information on devices that would have been in
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: multiple places. Pryor shows documents that list device IDs with
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: times and dates of when the device IDs were seen
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: inside the radius of the geofence. The latitude and longitude
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: is also on the list and the source of the data, Wi-Fi, GPS, etc.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: is also on the list. 9.04 a.m. Eller says the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: data was being collected for devices at the Daybell residence.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of other devices. There are more
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: records than what you see here. Pryor says there were
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: several IDs of phones within the proximity of the Daybell property.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Eller says that list includes the devices the police were
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: asking to be identified. 9.06 a.m. Prior asked the process
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: for obtaining IDs other than turning off location device on
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: a phone. Eller says if you were to connect to
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Wi-Fi from a device, you would generate a record with Google.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: The list of devices and information from Google was returned
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: in a spreadsheet format and organized by time and date. 9.09 a.m.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Eller went through and organized the data from Google. Prior
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: asked Eller if there was any information to suggest Chad
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Daybell's device was part of the location data on September 9th, 2019.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Eller says the results of the Google search show the
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: only device they were able to put at the residence
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: was Alex Cox's device. And that's all fine and well.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: And we know that Chad Daybell didn't kill these kids himself.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: He wasn't there swinging the sword, if you will. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: he was the one who motivated the whole thing. And
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: it's no different than if you're El Chapo. They didn't
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: get El Chapo for pulling the trigger on anybody. They
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: got him for conspiring. And it's no different here. 9.11 a.m.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: There was no location showing a device belonging to Chad
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Daybell that was on his property on September 9th from 9.19 a.m.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: through 12.10 p.m. Eller testifies. Eller says it can be
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: difficult to disable all the data Google collects on a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: device unless you simply turn that device off. 9.13 a.m.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Eller identified 19 devices from the Google records that would
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: have been within 250 meters from a spot in the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: backyard of the Daybell home. 9.17 a.m. Eller does not
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: know the phone numbers of the 19 devices. Stubbs pursued
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: further information on 12 of the devices. Eller explains that
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Stubbs testified Google told him it was too many devices
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and to remove some devices from the list. Ten devices
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: were ultimately looked at. 9.21 a.m. Eller says he would
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: have asked for the identifying information for all those devices
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: to identify everyone within the proximity of the property, not
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: just the ten devices that Stubbs requested. 9.22 a.m. The
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: information requested from Google started at 9 a.m., Pryor asks
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: if it would have been helpful to have requested records
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: from earlier in the day. Ehlers says yes. It could
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: have assisted in the investigation. Pryor stresses, again, that there
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: was no device associated to Chad Daybell on the property
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: that morning. 9.27 a.m. Pryor brings up another exhibit on
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the screen showing devices on or around the property on
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: September 23rd. 9.28 a.m. The chart shows information returned by
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Google for the geofence warrant based on a location at
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the Daybells for September 23rd. This is the non-filtered RADIUS version,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and there are several lines highlighted in yellow and other
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: lines highlighted in green. The yellow lines are Alex Cox's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: device on the Daybell property. The green lines are device
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: IDs submitted to Google for subscriber information. 9.30 a.m. Eller
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: says this chart should be the complete list of the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: records provided by Google at that time. He explains that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: there were 10 devices that were not included in the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Google data request. 9.32 a.m. Ehlers says there were 16
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: devices at or near Daybell's property on September 23rd not
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: associated with Alex Cox's device. Alex's device made it 17 devices.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Once you exclude devices outside a 30 feet radius, there
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: were four devices left. Ehlers says information on those four
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: devices were not obtained by the police. So in other words,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: what they're trying to say is that it was a
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: chupacabra or it was some vagrant who was just roaming
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: around at that time, found Tylee and JJ, decided they
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: were going to kill him, and then, as the ultimate disrespect,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: they were going to bury them in Chad Daybell's backyard.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Is that what you're trying to tell us, Mr. Pryor?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: And if so, good luck with that narrative. I'm sure
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the jury is going to be very receptive. 9.35am. Boyce
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: asks for a sidebar. 9.39am. Pryor wants to admit an exhibit,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and there needs to be some redactions. Boyce says we
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: will take a recess while the redactions happen. Be back soon.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: So as you can see here in the beginning of
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: this morning session, it's more of the same, right? And
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: now we're getting to the part where we're hearing from
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: the experts, but I don't think it's going to make
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: much of a difference as far as Chad Daybell goes,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: because the narrative is what it is. The evidence has
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: pointed us in the direction of Chad Daybell, and I
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: don't think anything that's been presented thus far has pointed
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: us anywhere else. And they can try and say that, oh,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: it was this person or that person, or there were
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: 19 phones in the vicinity. But the fact of the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: matter is, all of the evidence in its totality, forget
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the cell phone pings, the evidence in its totality tells
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: us that Chad Daybell is guilty of these crimes. And
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I think when all is said and done, the jury
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: is going to feel the same way. All right, we're
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up the first episode here. And in
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the next episode, we're going to pick up with part
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: two of day number 28, of the Chad Daybell trial.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're getting
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: right back to the Chad Daybell trial, and we're going
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off. This article was
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: published by eastidahonews.com, and the author of this article is
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton. 1018 a.m. Back in the courtroom after a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: long break, Lindsay Blake is joined the prosecutors at the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: prosecution table. Pryor will continue to question Eller. 10.19 a.m.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Pryor begins by reminding the jurors that there was no
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: device associated to Chad Daybell on his property on September
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: 9th and September 23rd. Eller says that's correct. Eller says
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: he reviewed 10 TBs of data. If you were to
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: take the Library of Congress, if it was all printed,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: just one TB would fill it. 10.20 a.m. Eller reviewed
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: data associated to the Chad Daybell Gmail account Prior shows
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a document on the screen showing information from September 6, 2019.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It shows data returned from Google from the Homer J.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Maximus Gmail account, Alex Cox. On September 6, 2019, a
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: location point for that account was at or near Chad's
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: house at 12.42 p.m., 12.44 p.m., 12.51 p.m., 12.53 p.m.,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and 12.55 p.m., 10.23 a.m. There was no information suggesting
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Chad was at the residence on September 6th. On September 9th,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: there are multiple data points showing Alex Cox device was
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: at or near Chad's property between 9.15 a.m. and 11.45 a.m. 10.26 a.m.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Prior reviews the times and locations of where Alex device
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: pinged on the property. He also presents a list showing
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: activity from Sunday, September 22nd, 2019, showing Alex was at
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: or near the Daybell property. starting around 2.30 p.m. 10.30 a.m.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Alex's device was on the property on September 23rd from 9.55 a.m.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: through 10.12 a.m. There is no evidence Eller reviewed that
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: could place Chad Daybell at the residence on the morning
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: of September 23rd. And that's because that was all done
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: by design, right? It's all part of the plan for
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori to have plausible deniability. We weren't there.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: We had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, they're the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: ones who motivated Alex Cox to kill these kids. 10.31 a.m.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: On September 25th, 2019, there are records showing Alex Cox's
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: device at or near Chad's property between 10.05 a.m. through 10.24 a.m.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: On October 9th, 2019, the day of the paintball incident,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Alex's device was at the property at 4.50, 4.51 p.m.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and 5.01 p.m. 10.33 a.m. On October 19, 2019, the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: day Tammy died, there was no indication that Alex's device
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: was within 1.4 miles of Chad's property. 10.34 a.m. Pryor
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: asks about drive testing. Eller says the drive testing done
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: in the case showed the coverage area for multiple towers
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: surrounding Chad's house. Eller was concerned that there was a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: 5-degree difference in the cell tower coverage area between 2019
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: and 2020. 10.37 a.m. Pryor asks if drive testing is
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: considered a scientific test. Eller says it's used by cell
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: phone companies to determine signal. The drive test itself can't
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: locate a device. It only shows tower coverage. And this
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is something that we should pay attention to if we're
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: following along with the Brian Kohlberger case as well, because
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a whole lot of this kind
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: of testimony once that case kicks off. 10.38 a.m. Pryor
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: asks about Gladiator forensics and if Eller looked into the
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: availability of his company or the public using it. Eller
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: says he did, but Gladiator told him their testing is
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: only for law enforcement. 10.39 a.m. Eller says you can
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: take their data and map it using other tools, but
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean it will match because you aren't
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: testing it with the same tool. 10.42 a.m. Pryor shows
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: a document that says there were 138 text messages and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: 50 voice calls between September 1st and October 31st, 2019,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: associated to Alex Cox's device. Well, it was at or
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: near the Daybell residence. 1043 a.m. Pryor has nothing further.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Wood will now conduct cross-examination. 1048 a.m. Wood begins by
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: publishing an exhibit. It's a slideshow showing data he collected
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: from September 9th The first slide shows locations related to
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the Homer J. Maximus Google account. 10.51 a.m. Wood plays
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: a video from the exhibit. He asks Eller about a
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: specific Wi-Fi data point from either Lori Vallow or Alex
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Cox's apartment. Wood asks Eller if he found any data
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: from Alex Cox's device during the early morning hours of
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: September 9th that went from apartment 107 to apartment 175,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Alex to Lori's apartment. Eller says, that's correct. 10.54 a.m.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Wood shows a record showing a phone call was made
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: at 8.11 a.m. from Chad Daybell's device to Alex Cox's
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: device on September 9th. Eller says Alex Cox's device showed
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: up at Chad Daybell's property at 9.21 a.m. Wood clarifies
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that the cast report used a 100-meter margin of error,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: while Eller used a 500-meter margin of error. 10.58 a.m.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Wood stresses that Chad made a call to Alex at 8.11 a.m.,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: and around an hour later, Alex showed up at Chad's house.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Many of the data points for Alex Cox's device were
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: recorded near the burial sites for JJ and Tylee. Well,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: that's not a shock considering Beaverface is the one who
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: killed them. 11 a.m. Eller says he spent a lot
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: of late night over Christmas going through the 10 TBs
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: of data that was turned over. Wood asks Eller if
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: he reviewed a cell phone belonging to Tammy Daybell. Eller
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't remember. Wood asks Eller if he is aware that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Chad sent a text to his wife about burning limbs
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: and shooting a raccoon. Eller says he's aware, but it
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't place Chad at the property. Just keep in mind
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that Chad Daybell doesn't have to be at the property
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: for him to be guilty. He's being charged with conspiracy.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: That means he was part of the plan to kill
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: these kids. And not only part of the plan, but
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: he had a leadership role. 1102 AM. Wood asks if
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: he's aware that combining the raccoon text message and the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: data on the screen was how law enforcement found Tylee Ryan.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Eller says no. He is not aware. 11.03 a.m. Wood
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: shows a chart showing Chad's device called Aspen. Alex's device
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: at 9.25 a.m. on September 23rd. Alex's device first showed
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: up at Chad's house at 9.55 a.m. that morning, 11.05 a.m.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Wood asks the significance of September 23rd. It's the day
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: after JJ was last seen alive. Wood shows another map
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: on the screen. 11.07 a.m. Wood shows some different places
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: where Alex's device was tracked on September 23rd. He also
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: asks about September 9th and how on both dates the
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Homer J. Maximus was located close to locations where the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: bodies were found. Eller says yes. Data from Alex's device
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: were tracked to the property after he spoke with Chad. 11.15 a.m.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Wood asks if Eller is aware Alex Cox's account went
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: to a sportsman's warehouse. Eller is aware. 11.18 a.m. Wood
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: asks Eller if he's aware of Alex Cox's relationship with
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Chad Debo. Eller says he's the brother-in-law. 11.21 a.m. Wood
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: has nothing further. Pryor follows up about a call between
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Alex and Chad at 8.11 a.m. Pryor asks if there's
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: any data of any kind to suggest Chad's device was
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: on property at the same exact time as Alex's on
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: those key dates. Eller says no. Pryor has nothing further.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: So that's all fine and well. That whole entire testimony, great.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Chad wasn't on the property. But does it really do
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: anything to tell us that he wasn't part of the conspiracy?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: It does not. And I highly doubt that the jurors
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: are going to be swayed by what we just heard. 11.24 a.m.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: The next witness is Dr. Greg Hampikian. He's the director
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: of the Forensic Justice Project at Boise State University and
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: the co-director of the Idaho Innocence Project. 11.29 a.m. Pryor
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: asks Hampikian about his profession. He has a lab at
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Boise State where he works on DNA projects, forensics, viruses
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: in the biology department, but also works on criminal justice projects.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: He is also an adjunct professor at the University of
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Idaho College of Law. 11.31 a.m. Hampikian explains his professional
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: and educational background. He's worked on many cases during and
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: doing DNA analysis. 11.33 a.m. Hampikian has worked with the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: French police. and published an article on familial DNA. He
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: also worked with a Taiwan forensic lab on a case
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: concerning a man who was wrongly convicted. 11.35 a.m. Hampikian
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: worked on the Amanda Knox case for several years with
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the defense until she was exonerated. Hampikian has been doing
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: forensic DNA work since 1989, and he has worked on
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: hundreds of cases. 11.38 a.m. Prior ass Hampikian has trained
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and worked with judges concerning DNA. He has. Hampikian has
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: also helped exonerate wrongfully convicted inmates, including Chris Tapp, in
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Idaho Falls. Well, guess what? That's not going to happen here.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: There's nobody that's wrongfully being accused or convicted at this trial.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Chad Daybell's bitch ass is exactly where he needs to be.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And that's in the crosshairs of the state, because there's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: no doubt about what he did, what he was involved in,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: and the animal that he is. 1144 a.m. Prior asks
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Hampikian about transferring DNA. Hampikian says it's very hard to
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: transfer someone's thumbprint from a glass to a gun or
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: something like that. Hampikian says DNA is really good at
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: telling us who may have contributed, but not how it
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: got there. 11.48 AM. Hampikian says DNA can be transferred
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a variety of ways. Prior asks if you were able
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: to have any type of contact with an item, would
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: DNA be transferred? Hampikian says there are many levels to
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: that question. It depends. Did you just wash your hand?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Did you shed skin or have dandruff? How long was
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the touch? Etc. 11.50 a.m. Pryor asks what a single
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: cell is. It's very small. You can't see it unless
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: it's a human egg cell. The type of cells we're
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: talking about, you have to use a microscope to see.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Hampikian says. 11.51 a.m. Pryor says as humans, we are
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: constantly shedding cells and transferring DNA. Hampikian says that's true. 11.55 a.m.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Prior lists a variety of ways in which DNA can
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: accumulate on objects. Fluid, air, hair, touch. Prior asks if
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: there is any he's missing. Hampikian says there are more.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: A bite of a sandwich, body submerged in water for days, etc. 11.53 a.m.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Prior asks if DNA can be transferred through breath. Hampikian
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: says a certain amount of DNA is transferred in the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: air and it's being studied right now. 11.58 a.m. Lunch break.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Back in an hour. Usually this is where we would
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: break too, but no sense doing that considering there's not
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: much more to get to. So we're going to power
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: right through. 1.05 p.m. We're back in the courtroom. Attorneys
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: are at their tables and Hampikian is on the stand. 1.10 p.m.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Hampikian was supplied with a number of documents and electronic
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: files containing DNA data. The files are important as he
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: has his own software to analyze the DNA. He also
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: received a list of evidence that was never tested. 1.11 p.m.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Hampikian is most interested in the biological evidence. That's what
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: catches his attention. There were more than a dozen hairs
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: on an adhesive. Some of the hairs were brown. Some
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: were even short, dark hair. One was a blonde hair. 1.12 p.m.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks if it's possible to obtain DNA on hairs
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: without roots. Hampikian says it is. As of about three
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: to four years ago, private companies can test hairs without
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: roots and try to determine DNA. Four hairs from this
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: case were sent to Astrea Forensics for testing. 1.14 p.m.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Three references were sent to Astrea to compare the hairs, Chad, Lori,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: and JJ. They determined that two of the hairs came
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: from possibly the same person, Hampikian says, but none of
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: the three people, Chad, Lori, and JJ, match the four hairs. 1.15 p.m.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Hampikian says he found no evidence that Chad Daybell's DNA
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: was present on anything that he tested. 1.19 p.m. Hampikian
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: says when the hairs are being tested, they are testing
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: a hypothesis. Was this Lori Vallow's hair? Was it Chad
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Daybell's hair? Was it JJ Vallow's hair? The four hairs
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: showed it belonged to none of them. 1.23 p.m. Hampikian
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: says the smallest amount of DNA were searched for, just
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: a few cells. Hampikian says there was no indication there
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: were problems testing the DNA or that the labs did
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: anything wrong during the testing. 1.25 p.m. Boyce asks for
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: a quick sidebar with counsel. 1.24 p.m. Pryor has nothing else.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Wood will now cross-examine. 1.27 p.m. Boyce says there's a
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: question about an exhibit. He is allowing reopening of direct examination,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: and Pryor asks to exhibit the Bodhi Technology DNA report.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Wood's back on the podium. 1.29 p.m. Wood asks if
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Hampikian's lab at BSU is accredited for forensic testing. Hampikian
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: says it's an academic lab, so they never applied for
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the same accreditation as other private labs have. 1.30 p.m.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Wood asks Hampikian if he reviewed reports and testing about
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Tylee and JJ's remains. Hampikian says yes. He also reviewed
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the hair sent to Bodhi Technology that matched to Lori Vallow. 1.32 p.m.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Wood is nothing further. Pryor has redirect questions. He asks
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: about the samples found on the axe and the shovel.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Hampikian confirms Tylee's DNA was on the axe and shovel.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks if there is an accurate way to determine
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: how the samples got on there. Hampikian says not by
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: anything he can do with DNA. 1.34 p.m. Hampikian is
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: done testifying. Pryor asks for a sidebar. 1.40 p.m. Boyce
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: is excusing the public from the courtroom. There is nothing
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: further today. The jury will remain in the courtroom with
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the attorneys and judge to discuss scheduling. 2.28 p.m. Suddenly
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: we're on the record again. Everyone left the courtroom and
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: the live stream started again. Joined in late, but there's
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: discussion about Emma Daybell's testimony on the life insurance form
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Tammy Daybell filled out. 2.29 p.m. The state has a
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: problem with the statement Emma says that we did not
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: consult with our husbands when they signed the life insurance forms.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Boyce will allow the state to question Emma about the
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: statement when rebuttal witnesses are called. 2.38 p.m. Boyce says
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: there are two other potential witness issues relating to Detective
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Ray Hermosillo and Deputy Coulter Cannon. Wixom says Hermosillo was
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: released from his subpoena and has been hypervigilant at not
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: watching any part of the trial, but the state wants
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: to recall him as a rebuttal witness. 2.40 p.m. Pryor's
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: concerned that Hermosillo is a law enforcement officer involved heavily
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: in the case. I'm extremely skeptical that Officer Hermosillo did
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: not discuss the case with any other officers involved, Pryor says.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Pryor does not want him recalled. Pryor says he's preparing
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: to close his case. The state is bringing Hermosillo back
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: to open the doors to a number of issues that
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: can't be addressed through cross-examination. 2.42 p.m. Pryor stresses that
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: he does not want Hermosillo back in. Boyce says Hermosillo
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: will be placed under oath like other witnesses, so he
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: will need to tell the truth about whether or not
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: he watched the trial or discussed it with others. Wixom
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: reminds the court that Hermosillo was the chief officer for
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: the Vallow case, so he has heard most of the
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: testimony and seen most of the evidence. Wixom says the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: rebuttal case will take one and a half to two
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: days and the questioning will be narrow and focused. 2.44 p.m.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Wixom says all rebuttal witnesses will be focused on what
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: the defense said. Nothing outside of that. Boyce says if
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Hermosillo is called, Pryor can object and Boyce can hear
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: the argument at that time. The other witness the state
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: wants to ask back is Coulter Cannon. 2.45 p.m. Boyce
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: says Sam applies to Coulter Cannon. He can come back
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: to testify as a rebuttal witness and Pryor can object
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: a few wishes. Tomorrow at 8.30 a.m., we're back in
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: the courtroom where a proposed schedule will be presented to
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the court. Okay, I think we're done for the day.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: All right, folks. Well, we're getting down to it here.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And I don't think it's going to be long before
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Pryor closes his case out. And once that happens, we're
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: going to be rocking and rolling towards a verdict. And
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: if I had to make a wager, I would wager
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: that the jury isn't going to take long to render
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that verdict. But until then, that's going to do it
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: for this one. All of the information that goes with
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.