Latest / Identity at the Center / #217 - Identiverse 2023: The Expanding Scope of Identity with Andre Durand of Ping Identity

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#217 - Identiverse 2023: The Expanding Scope of Identity with Andre Durand of Ping Identity · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
0:10
am this is the go-to podcast. Now your host Jim McDonald and
0:18
Jeff Steadman. Welcome to the identity of the
0:22
sender podcast. I'm Jeff NSG, mhm.
0:24
Hey, Jeff, how are you? Not so bad yourself, I'm doing
0:27
great, man. Nostradamus week is in full
0:29
swing, you know, obviously we're talking about the future and how
0:33
things are going to be. Yes.
0:36
And we also talked about mic technique and I see you
0:37
awkwardly, like, leaning forward, trying to like get into
0:39
the right position. Yeah.
0:41
I mean I haven't gotten it down, right?
0:43
What are we sewed like to 18? So me 2:17 I believe.
0:48
Alright, yeah, yeah. Wait, for years of doing this.
0:50
I like 300 or 400 want to like lift the mic up if you would
0:54
like me to go, go ahead, I mean whatever I hate I feel like
0:57
you're just trying to. You have like appease me and
1:01
it's not comfortable and it makes me uncomment want to have
1:02
a crook in my bag either. Okay, are we good?
1:05
We're good, we're good. So we're going to talk about the
1:08
future. Yeah, the future and no better
1:09
person than maybe one of the finest prognosticators.
1:12
And all of identity, his name is Andre Duran were very lucky to
1:15
have him. He's the founder and CEO at Ping
1:18
Identity. Welcome to identify the center
1:20
Andre To be here Jeff. Yeah, thanks so much for taking
1:23
the time and this is a very busy week for you.
1:26
Here at identify verse. You've got lots of handlers and
1:30
things guarding your time, so we appreciate it.
1:32
You gave a keynote yesterday. We're going to get into that,
1:35
but we have tradition on the show that the first time anyone
1:37
comes on is we have to understand their origin story
1:39
from an identity and access management perspective.
1:41
And obviously yours goes way back.
1:43
So I'm curious, you know, for those who aren't familiar with
1:45
the and reader and identity Story.
1:48
How did you get into this space is something is Identity
1:51
something that you chose or did it choose?
1:53
You I'd say I chose identity but security chose me.
1:56
The I think the first time I gave it a lot of serious thought
2:01
was, I had started a company called jabber instant messaging
2:05
with based upon an open source project by Jeremy Miller, and
2:09
Microsoft. Shortly thereafter announced
2:13
Microsoft passport. And the notion that there would
2:15
be a single company that could in essence, One's access to, you
2:23
know, the world, really, the World Wide Web, what we referred
2:26
to it back then and that seemed that choke point.
2:31
Seemed exceptionally strategic. And it was obvious to me that
2:35
what was at stake? If they were successful in that,
2:39
that was pre Samuel and pre Liberty Alliance, you know, that
2:44
was there's always an equal and opposite Force at any moment
2:47
time and I think the world recognized pretty quickly, you
2:50
know, as the internet. Was just taking off what it
2:52
would mean to have a choke point.
2:53
And so that was at, that was a job.
2:56
That would have been, you know, Circa 2001 is my gas 2000 2001.
3:03
And then in Fall of 2000 2001, I took a three-month sabbatical
3:11
and longer story, but I went down and visited a friend who
3:15
was had a sailboat off of Venezuela, the ABC islands,
3:21
Bonaire Curaçao. And and so I went and spent some
3:26
time down on the sailboat. And if you have ever been on
3:28
sailboats, it's a very romantic thought.
3:30
And like I said that the reason for that sale was my this is my
3:34
high school buddy. Who had that sailboat?
3:36
We had dreamed of sailing around the world, our whole lives.
3:38
You know, this is 15 years later and the dream is still partially
3:42
alive. But now I'm married and running
3:44
a company and, you know, things are a little bit different.
3:46
So sailing is, you know, you pull up the anchor.
3:51
And anything could go wrong. And oftentimes does, and then
3:54
you anchor and your board essentially it's like a floating
3:56
prison. So you have a lot of time to
3:58
think when you're on a floating prison and it was the first time
4:00
I started blogging and I wrote two or three blogs that were
4:05
observations of Trends in tech and and you know on the third
4:10
day woked up and realize something was missing like they
4:15
were good ideas but somehow the notion of identity over the
4:20
internet It was absent without it, they couldn't, they couldn't
4:24
be done. And one of them was actually
4:27
find my o. Find find find my on Apple was
4:30
verbatim that it was. If every device is connected the
4:33
network, I should be able to shut it off.
4:36
Essentially, it's mine and stolen, I should be able to shut
4:40
it off. You can't do it.
4:42
If you can't bind the identity of the owner to the identity of
4:46
the thing. So clearly identity was missing
4:49
So that was my aha moment that I said, hmm seems to me everything
4:55
needs to have an identity or a lot of very important things
4:59
can't occur. So I was yeah, that was the aha
5:02
moment. So very cool story about being
5:06
on a boat, but I'm wondering now that you're, you know,
5:09
obviously, you're CEO of pink, seems to make this would be an
5:11
excellent use case. The like really test the
5:13
boundaries of remote work via satellite connections, you know
5:18
making connections to To your resources and things like that.
5:21
And that's a very cool story. Take me into your thought
5:26
process of. Okay, there's this idea.
5:29
I'm going to turn it into this Mega company, like I even get
5:33
started. Like what was the thing that you
5:35
did to say? Okay, as I think a lot of people
5:37
have ideas and they don't act on them, but I have a theory to my
5:40
theory is that most entrepreneurs have a belief in
5:45
some fact, some Gap in the market and then they have to Can
5:49
big bet. Like I'm going after solving
5:52
that Gap. If I'm wrong, I'm going to go
5:56
bankrupt. But if I'm right, I'm going to
5:59
take over the market, you're giving, at least me or
6:02
entrepreneurs. I think too much credit.
6:04
We have an intuition, sometimes the right sometimes the wrong.
6:08
I think the big thing is that we're not risk-adverse, we jump
6:12
and then act, we jump in survive, I've come to appreciate
6:16
the entrepreneurial formula is maximum survivable risk.
6:19
Uuuuuugh maximum, survival risk is equal to your skill, your
6:23
work ethic and grit more skill. You have the more work ethic,
6:26
you have the more great you have, the more risk you can
6:29
essentially take on and survive if there's a spell well failure
6:36
there's small failures and big failures, right?
6:38
So now the big the you can have a lot of small failures and not
6:44
have the big failure right on your way to success.
6:47
So where were we? Whole was the Question again, I
6:50
just did a tiny Asian off at a tangent.
6:52
How do you connect the dots between idea and actually
6:55
starting? So this is also an interesting
6:59
thing for me, they say, you know, be careful of your
7:02
thoughts. They become your words, your
7:05
words, become your actions become this, your reputation,
7:07
your destiny, ultimately. And it's very, very true.
7:09
So I start with a thought if the thought reaches a threshold of
7:16
meaningfulness, I guess, however, people Define that That
7:20
then, I typically will verbalize it to see whether it not it
7:25
resonates with my immediate mentors or friends and family.
7:29
And if there's some resonance there, at some point, it becomes
7:33
a becomes a thing. You're going to do, what I find
7:36
is that when it comes to your reputation, and I only
7:40
discovered this many years later, your words have power.
7:44
If your words are always predictive of your actions, if
7:48
you have a one-to-one, Call a one-to-one.
7:50
Say do ratio if every time I say something, I do it.
7:55
If I say something in the future, you're going to believe
7:56
me. And beginning.
7:58
You don't know if words are cheap, you don't know that would
7:59
believe it. But over time you gauge people's
8:01
words to action ratio. If it's one to one, you believe
8:03
them. So, one of the things I did
8:06
unknowingly early before I had this formula was that I would
8:11
say I was going to do something. Knowing that I was risking my
8:16
reputation. I had to follow through, it's
8:18
one thing to say in your own head.
8:20
I'm going to do something, but you never verbalize it.
8:23
The second you verbalize it and you say I'm going to do it now.
8:27
You are risking your words and in a way you're risking your
8:30
reputation without knowing it and future.
8:33
But for me, it was a way of holding myself accountable.
8:36
So if I really want to do something and not back out, if
8:39
I'm afraid I'm going to back out, I'll tell someone, I'm
8:41
going to do it and come hell or high water.
8:43
I'm going to Uh do it that makes sense.
8:45
Yeah, not everyone treats it the same way but that was my
8:47
personality. So I told people I was going to
8:50
do it and then I was going to do it that was it and it was one of
8:54
those jump in figure it out you know on my first day so January
8:59
4 2002 I was in my office I move my computer from alpha side
9:03
jabber over to a blank office and you know you have no email.
9:06
You have no nothing. It's first day.
9:08
There's no employees. I'm CEO of one and it's 9:00 in
9:12
the morning and it hits you. I was like, what did I Still.
9:14
I just started a company in an industry that I know nothing
9:18
about nothing zero. And what do you do on the first
9:22
day? And it was about 11:00, of
9:25
course, I have no email most of us just run our lives off
9:28
incoming email and there was no email is a no messages.
9:31
When's the last time you've seen and maybe guys are go cheering.
9:33
Bob, you've seen your email with no messages.
9:35
Well, when you start out day one there's no message.
9:37
No one even has your email. I don't even think that's true
9:40
anymore because even before you start your mailbox is already
9:42
full with on Boarding an email, remember setting it up and
9:47
looking at it and it was blank. And even that is a surreal sort
9:52
of a thing. You know, it's coming from a
9:53
hundred emails hit you from every, which direction to go to
9:56
zero. So, you're at a dead standstill
9:58
and no nothing. I was like, well, I need a logo
10:02
and I knew photo shops are open. Photoshop and I did a ping ID.
10:05
And just for jokes, I did worldwide headquarters.
10:08
I printed that off on my inkjet printer and I taped it to the
10:11
outside of the door. That was day one.
10:13
I took pictures. Of it being ID, worldwide
10:15
headquarters, one person. It was two in the afternoon.
10:18
I went home. I guess my point of all of this
10:20
is that people can overthink the first step you overthink it I've
10:25
always just moved in a Direction.
10:27
One step, at a time, global domination wasn't a thought, it
10:32
was, this seems important. This seems like a problem that
10:37
needs to get solved. So I will just start moving in
10:41
the direction of figuring out how to solve the problem.
10:45
We normally ask for what your elevator pitch for, what your
10:49
company does. Yeah, I think most of our
10:51
listeners have a conception of what Ping Identity is.
10:55
Is what is it that they don't know.
10:57
How would you what is it? That made people think today?
11:02
Yeah, but really, it's Ping Identity is something else.
11:06
Yeah, you know, reputations are hard won and hard change.
11:09
That's all what I've also learned as well.
11:10
So, we spent a decade standing for Open Standards for single
11:15
sign-on. And we did it nearly
11:17
exclusively. So For many years.
11:20
We were well known as the single sign-on company, right?
11:24
And and a well-deserved reputation.
11:26
Like I said, we did it exclusively for many years
11:29
Identity obviously is a lot bigger than single sign-on and
11:32
it's growing daily right now. I would say that we're has
11:37
evolved to, in our aspirational sense is that if you really step
11:44
back and look at the role of identity, the role of identity
11:47
is to provide security in digital interactions but ideally
11:55
we'd never know it was there. I mean the perfect identity is
11:58
as invisible. As we can make it.
12:01
And so, frictionless is not just a word, it really is a desired
12:07
outcome. Security is a must, but seamless
12:12
and frictionless is the desired State.
12:15
We're always trying to balance those two, it some point or
12:18
another, I think. Now, if you roll forward into
12:22
what Ping desires to do, we've been known for security for a
12:25
long time. We've been doing for single
12:28
sign-on, but if you think about, Seamless customer experience and
12:34
interactions. Like to me, that's the Holy
12:36
Grail. I take the security for granted.
12:38
It's not to be taken for granted, but the higher calling
12:41
now is how we can Delight customers in something that
12:45
they've viewed as an impediment to their progress and probably
12:51
the bane of their existence. So that's exactly in my mind,
12:56
back in the early 2000s, paying was the single sign-on over
13:00
Sanders come. Panini.
13:02
And it's his kind of segue into the first question that we
13:05
wanted to get into around Legacy.
13:08
So your computer in this space where you've had incumbents
13:13
like, IBM Oracle CA right in most of them acquired their
13:17
products from other companies. But whatever a big part of their
13:22
solution was taking all the Legacy it and being able to
13:26
provide single sign-on. Yeah.
13:28
Now when you say we're going to provide single sign-on On bike
13:31
via sam'l now in early 2000s, you're talking to a very small
13:37
subset of the applications and only very forward-thinking
13:40
companies could do it, right? So but at some point that
13:44
support of that Legacy first off that that need that companies
13:48
had shrinks and shrinks so the value proposition of buying a
13:52
product that filled that Legacy integration need starts to
13:57
disappear but I think Legacy overall Is something that's
14:02
always there. There's always some form of
14:04
legacy and I'm wondering. So this is the question is, how
14:10
will Legacy it continue to influence the identity space?
14:15
Where will it? Hold us back.
14:17
You talked a lot about a lot of topics in your keynote.
14:20
User-centric, you know, some of the things like that house
14:25
Legacy. I Tegan holds back.
14:26
Yeah. Well, technology changes rapidly
14:31
these days, I mean, major Cycles you counting seven to ten years.
14:35
Major architectural changes every 7 to 10 years and if
14:38
you're a company that has has been around for decades and
14:42
growing through acquisition, entropy has gotten ahold of you
14:45
and it's not by Design. It's not that anyone wants to
14:49
allow, you know, entropy to actually rule their world but
14:54
it's, you know, it's you're battling physics at some Wait,
14:58
and ultimately physics will win. We only temporarily organize
15:02
things, all these large companies have a
15:04
multi-generational, it reality. And every new text cycle that
15:10
someone has come in and said this will solve all your prior
15:13
problems, it only ever gets partially implemented, and
15:17
budget Cycles change and economic conditions, change, and
15:20
Leadership changes, and strategies change.
15:22
And each one of those changes leaves.
15:25
A little bit of that. Sediment, that layer of Legacy.
15:29
Something that never got to 100% got to 90% the easy stuff.
15:34
Got done, the hard stuff didn't get done in the ten percent
15:36
becomes the Legacy and over many generations.
15:38
The 10% sad up and you end up with lots of those and they do
15:43
become you know ankle weights if you will the future progress
15:48
because you do things like identity in its no no a porno
15:51
identity left behind you, you want the identity control plane
15:54
to spike through all apps not just 90% of them.
15:57
Especially when we talk about security.
15:59
So it certainly creates challenges.
16:01
But I think it's a, I think it's just I think we are talking
16:05
physics and a certain reality of humans and cycles and budget
16:10
timelines and you know annual budgets.
16:13
Don't necessarily, you know Collide perfectly with tech
16:18
Innovation that changes everything.
16:20
I mean the world is different for five months later that chat
16:23
GPT has been introduced and it was 45 months ago and you know
16:27
he's not Withstanding, the prediction on, you know, AI in
16:30
21, I still didn't predict this level of change of AI back in
16:33
21. So, the world is just different
16:35
today in ways that we couldn't even anticipate.
16:38
And as a result, it will create more Legacy.
16:42
We're just gonna have to deal with it.
16:43
And I think that's normal, right?
16:44
And that's just the way the world works.
16:47
You talked about Ai and I want to ask you about AI, but you
16:52
also talked about the expanding scope of identity in your
16:54
keynote. Yeah.
16:55
What do you mean by that? What is the expansion?
16:57
Of scope. Yeah.
16:58
Because clearly we believe it's at the center.
17:01
Yeah. And now we're talking about
17:02
Rings getting out. That's the right way to think
17:05
about it. Well, so if he thought about
17:08
maybe the core of some of the identity controls, the
17:11
authentication Services, maybe the authorization Services, the
17:15
governance, privileged, kind of the big things that people do in
17:18
either a director decides a and am.
17:20
Yeah, Pan Am. And, you know, prior to those,
17:24
you know, shops just had active directory and, you know,
17:26
identity management, wasn't it? Term you just managed users in a
17:29
directory. Well now you look at the life's
17:34
the importance of identity is the gatekeeper for security it's
17:38
being attacked. So the things that we're needing
17:41
to do to add to essentially the controls of identity were not
17:47
viewed identity centered in the beanie.
17:50
So look at fraud teams. Fry teams have very little
17:53
correlation today. Now, they're in the security
17:56
team but they have very low correlation The identity teams
17:58
or totally separate teams yet. If you look at the types of
18:03
fraud which are occurring, its identity based fraud.
18:05
Just happen to be run by a fraud team with very little
18:10
coordination up until recently. I think only right about.
18:13
Now in real time are some of those teams now beginning to
18:17
talk and you don't have to go back very far.
18:21
When the identity and access management folks in it, this was
18:27
viewed a very tactical Administration function in the
18:31
org and the Sea. So, you know, 45 years ago, you
18:37
asked cisos about MFA and about some of these more advanced
18:42
authorization topics and they didn't, you know, Samuel and
18:45
oauth in. Do it.
18:46
Those were not terms that they were well versed, and you asked
18:49
him today, and you can see the rise in importance of identity
18:53
within the security. So it's clearly expanding in
18:56
scope. The risk in fraud signals is
18:58
changing that in a pretty significant way.
19:01
Right now, one of the ways I also think identity
19:04
verification. It's also been viewed as kind of
19:06
its own swimlane, but it's just Shades of Grey we don't.
19:12
I mean, I don't think about verification as as a one and
19:16
done anymore and it's not separate from authentication,
19:18
it's almost like the Authentication.
19:20
First. And last resort you do it before
19:23
you enroll someone in your authentication system and if
19:26
somehow they lose their credentials or device or
19:29
whatever factors they are to authenticate, you need to
19:31
re-roll them, you probably should make sure that you're
19:34
putting the right carbon with the account.
19:36
Yeah, I mean that's the unhappy path that we talk a lot about
19:38
being exploited and people taking advantage of for a
19:41
variety of reasons. I like to talk about AI.
19:44
I'm very bullish on. Wary, eye is gone.
19:47
I'm a little skeptical. When I talk with identity
19:49
vendors, And their use of AI. And the terms of May I, yeah,
19:54
because I think the term, I think the definition has changed
19:56
with the Advent of or really the rise of large language models.
20:00
Yeah, we've already has a small small AI versus all caps, bold
20:05
aii right in your face. The thinking for you that kind
20:08
of thing, I guess, where do you see IAI taking the identity
20:14
industry? I certainly have thoughts, but
20:16
I'd love to hear from you. Like what is, how is We've seen
20:21
AI in products already, but I think we're dealing with a new
20:24
generation, a generational shift in what a I actually means.
20:29
How do you see that impacting the identity industry?
20:31
Well, so I described a i forbade may I for good and you know, at
20:35
the end I think my My Philosophy on the universe is that
20:40
everything is an equal and opposite and a yin and yang and
20:43
equal proportions and whether you see it or not.
20:46
So we are in a bit of a nuclear arms race.
20:50
Now, with a, i forbade may I for good.
20:53
I think the, I think the cloning of Biometrics and digital
20:58
channels like voice cloning, the world is, as I said, in my
21:02
keynote, not prepared to have our senses that are so embedded
21:07
in, what it means to be human to basically be fooled.
21:11
Our senses are now going to be fooled, unless you're literally
21:15
seeing it in front of you physically.
21:17
Now, and that's a potentially a huge.
21:20
Step back. If we can't reinsert
21:22
authenticity back into this, all of that said, if I think on the
21:27
positive side of a obviously it can it can help us find needles
21:31
in a haystack and patterns that we wouldn't pre conceived or
21:35
think of it somehow. Well, I think we'll have an
21:37
ability to do that. So that's on the positive side.
21:40
I also think it's possible fed the right models, the right
21:44
constructs for you to describe an experience.
21:50
You want users to go through and actually have it pretty much
21:54
delivered. I think about what we can do
21:56
with orchestration engines now and it's not a big stretch for
22:00
me to think that that a large language model overlaying on
22:05
orchestration. Could you could literally
22:08
describe what you want and have 80% of it.
22:12
Designed for you, including some of the policies that you would
22:15
want depending on the risk. Scenarios are looking for.
22:18
So I think is a productivity Tool.
22:21
I think some of the things that we'll be able to marry to it are
22:23
pretty phenomenal. I just worry that those come
22:26
later and the abuse by the attackers will come first.
22:31
And it's the delta in time of which the or the asymmetry and
22:37
timing with which the technology is used and by whom that race
22:42
between positive and negative rate, the shorter, we can make
22:45
that distance and push it may be in the favor of positive use
22:49
versus - yeah. And the thing that we have,
22:52
we're bit handcuffed on the positive side because we
22:55
thoroughly need to understand the implications to IP and and
23:01
the adversaries are not concerned about that or as we do
23:04
so and there's a lot of issues there to figure it out.
23:08
I think all copyright as we know it is is going to come under
23:14
significant question and or flat-out attack by these models
23:18
if we want to leverage it. truly, it's funny you bring up
23:21
that that scenario of describing an experience because that's
23:25
what I've been thinking about to as sort of the differentiator
23:29
for products in this space. Is how hard is it to deploy,
23:35
right? From administrative standpoint,
23:36
how hard is it to use? And if I had, you know, the old
23:39
windmill wizard, right to get things done, this is the wizard.
23:43
This is clippy on steroids or whatever.
23:46
You know, how do you want? Yeah, except this time a lot
23:49
smarter. And so, one of the things I
23:52
think about AI is that I see the expansion of identity.
23:59
And I don't think the people Who can run identity and understand
24:02
identity can expand at a proportional rate.
24:07
Yeah, and so I feel like a eyes got to beat the layer in between
24:10
where a, I can run Identity or to your point build identity.
24:16
And a fewer number of people are required to kind of orchestrate,
24:21
what AI is going to do. But I think all technology is
24:25
about collapsing, complexity and everything.
24:31
About the ultimate competitiveness is always faster
24:34
cheaper. And it's just what what new
24:37
technology breakthrough has allowed us to achieve faster
24:41
cheaper and by what proportions? There's no question AI is a
24:45
Quantum Leap in that conversation.
24:49
Yeah. And I also wonder with the AI
24:52
how much of it like let me throw an example out there so we have
24:57
this technology in the cloud space called Kim and it can tell
25:01
you. Here's what people have, right?
25:03
Here's what they're using so you can go ahead.
25:05
And unproven access that people aren't using because they needed
25:10
it, they'd be using it. Oh, people were things or
25:13
whatever, right? We'll leave that detail for.
25:15
Now if we could take that into Enterprise or look at all
25:18
systems, look at all access. Now we're talking about
25:21
crunching humongous amounts of data, logs from systems, at
25:26
various levels of the stack and then analyzing it and coming
25:29
back with something that we can decision on are potentially
25:34
making automatic decision. It's on.
25:36
Well really it's kind of like business intelligence.
25:39
It's a bunch of rules being applied.
25:41
Is that really a I or not? I say it is because it's solving
25:46
a problem that we as people just we can't solve, it's just too
25:50
much. Yeah.
25:51
The whole access rights. Entitlement privilege roles in
25:57
some ways to apply a static control against an inherently
26:03
Dynamic problem is. Going to have its limits and I
26:07
think we're seeing those limits. I mean, rolls are a great
26:10
example of the 80/20 rule. Like, in theory, if I could have
26:13
ten rolls and 10,000 people. I've got leverage in my Access
26:18
Control model as we head towards zero, trust the need for finer
26:24
and more granular control of access is never-ending.
26:28
And so we're already at a state where it's like one roll per
26:30
person. Well, I was never the original
26:33
intent, it's because we've got a model.
26:35
Oil that had a lot of Leverage in the 80/20 construct.
26:38
Back when Corson medium grained, authorization was good enough
26:42
and we're willing to live with it but it's not good enough.
26:45
It's not good enough for the future just in time.
26:47
Just enough access has no limits on the granularity with which it
26:51
wants to be defined. So, defining an access control
26:55
model that is inherently. Static, is simply not you.
26:59
You just see where it's going to break 100 stock oil.
27:02
You're not going to achieve least privilege and not me,
27:05
never gonna Steve, it's, which is why Dynamic.
27:07
We're gonna have to redefine the future of authorization, not
27:11
around, static Concepts, or static principles, but around
27:14
Dynamic principles. Now, that creates another set of
27:16
challenges, which, how do you audit that, how can you
27:21
predetermine in a deterministic sense who has access to what
27:24
when the variables that determine access change?
27:28
Like, if a wrist signal is required to pass before I get
27:32
access and at that moment in time, I didn't pass that wrist.
27:35
Well, how could I predict that? So there's us that new set of
27:37
challenges. So he's a new set of challenges
27:39
when we saw the old problem, but I think that fundamentally we
27:44
are we're on a one-way Street on many, many of these technology,
27:48
you can see that you're heading in One Direction only.
27:51
And you can see these chasms with the current approach flat
27:56
outbreaks and we must rethink everything to cross the chasm
28:00
get on authorization, it's one of those, it is one of those
28:05
challenges. Ages.
28:05
I see coming up, it seems one of those 3D problems.
28:08
We've been, we've been solving in 2D who has access to what and
28:14
now we're adding a z dimension of when y, right?
28:18
Well and we thought 3D, yeah, well the the Z axis could be any
28:22
variable, right? And that's.
28:24
And that's what makes it ultimately Dynamic.
28:27
Yeah, it's what makes it powerful too?
28:31
Well, that's where you get the a, you know, the orchestration
28:33
doesn't should you G have be granted access depends?
28:37
It's not just your role and your title at that moment in time or
28:41
your current employment status whole bunch of other things.
28:44
I would want to include in that decision that I might not be
28:47
able to encapsulate in some sort of static statically defined
28:52
Access Control right given six months ago.
28:54
You know, I think there's also something that's been on my mind
28:57
recently is I feel like the growth in accounts from like
29:02
2018 2019 to today is drastically higher.
29:07
Yeah, and if you were able to take the ephemeral accounts the
29:11
ones where your infrastructure is a code is launching an
29:15
account using it for 10 minutes destroying it and you don't have
29:19
the ability to kind of even log that that should be in that
29:21
number as well. That's where you start to see
29:25
the real expansion of digital identity.
29:27
Is that the number of digital identities that were dealing
29:30
with? Has grown exponentially.
29:32
I don't think that statistic is out there.
29:34
If you know about it, please send know, I don't but you're
29:37
absolutely right. Because really, what we've said,
29:39
and I there's no there's there's no such thing as security.
29:46
When the things that are communicating our unidentified,
29:50
like they just it's impossible, like it's to be secure, is to
29:54
identify the two things that are talking and the two things are
29:56
talking May times are not, you know, a human long-lived, human
30:00
under a long-lived device to your point.
30:03
You'd have these ephemeral objects pinup that are going to
30:06
communicate for a period of time with something else and need to
30:09
be authenticated before their trusted.
30:13
And yeah, there is a lot more of those.
30:14
Yeah. I want to get into a bit of a
30:17
lightning round here and be respectful of time.
30:20
We're going to treat as kind of like a lightning round word
30:23
association and I'm going to say a word and what I'd like is sort
30:26
of like your your gut reaction like what do you thinking when
30:29
you hear the word, orchestration, agility and
30:33
visibility orchestration is now taking what has been embedded in
30:39
code. I refer to it as custom cement
30:42
as it's hard to change and manifesting Into something that
30:46
looks just like a Visio diagram, but actually runs.
30:51
It's not just a picture of the logic.
30:54
It actually is the logic and is what runs?
30:59
So it's making the invisible logic embedded in the user
31:03
experiences and Rising it up to a level where we can all see it.
31:09
But most importantly, we can change it quickly and that
31:13
agility is required for the A future identity threat detection
31:18
and response the itd are. That's a real mouthful.
31:21
And I've asked my team, what exactly it me that does?
31:23
It mean in the answer? I got was, yes.
31:27
So, you know, a lot of new definitions are very broad, but
31:31
I guess if I, it was maybe the heart of my present yesterday,
31:34
which is 20 thing to Define identity, as the heart of
31:37
security. Nothing to realize that it's
31:39
arrived. And we now need to secure
31:42
identity little bit recursive in a sense.
31:46
And securing our identity infrastructure, not just
31:49
security, our identity accounts. There is Machinery that we will
31:54
build and point at the infrastructure to ensure the
31:57
Integrity of the infrastructure that is ensuring the Integrity
32:00
of our security. So I think the response the are,
32:05
I think that's the real key. If you detect a threat based on
32:10
an identity, can you actually do something about it?
32:13
Yeah, and that's one of the things when you marry wrist
32:17
signals with the identity control plane.
32:19
There's a lot of satisfaction in that because we can actually do
32:22
something. So we've had a lot of risk in
32:24
fraud signals, you know, it's like a brain without a body.
32:27
Has a lot of big thoughts can't do anything when you marry the
32:30
ability to act with the ability to think, meaning CC, the risk.
32:36
And then you can do something about it, you can raise the
32:38
authentication threshold. If you will, you can block
32:43
access in real-time through a policy that Is leveraging a
32:46
wrist signal to Garner access. So that's that virtuous feedback
32:50
loop that are referred to. So, you're absolutely right.
32:52
The response part is very, very important.
32:54
When identity is a control plane, you can respond.
32:57
That's right. That's the whole Theory beat.
32:59
We had behind identity at the center was that the identity
33:02
system could pick up on these signals and then kick in various
33:08
connected systems that could take action.
33:10
Bingo. All right, next up, self
33:12
Sovereign or user managed identity decentralized.
33:15
Identifiers identity, wallets big topic only a minute.
33:22
First of all, I'm not the biggest fan of self Sovereign
33:25
identity. The term only because I don't
33:28
think it fully respects or maybe the extreme View and maybe I
33:32
don't have a right, but it seems to be a kind of word that
33:34
denotes I'm in control of everything.
33:37
And that's not if you live in a cave and you only interact with
33:40
yourself, you control everything, we don't live in a
33:43
cave, we interact with others and so it's always But finding
33:46
the balance in a relationship and you don't want a
33:48
relationship to be out of balanced.
33:50
You don't want one party, I will control the other.
33:52
So to me, user-centric Identity or decentralized identity
33:57
creates more balance in the identity interchange than we
34:02
currently have. I don't have as much control as
34:06
I would like to day over sharing my data, because Digital Data,
34:12
because I had no way to store and keep it until Well, I had
34:16
the notion of a wallet on a phone that I control.
34:20
That's in my pocket. That's in my possession, we want
34:23
to know something about me, digitally, I can share it with
34:26
you from my phone. So the ability for me to collect
34:29
digital credentials fancy term, but information about myself,
34:33
fragments of my digital identity storm, in a secure locker and
34:37
secure Enclave unlocked with my biometric and share it out.
34:40
Will is a better privacy and user control model.
34:43
It is Sovereign in a sense that I can Control the dissemination
34:47
of the but it's not sovereign in the sense that the information
34:49
on there, I created sorry there's nothing.
34:53
There's nothing. I would say about myself that
34:55
has more weight or bearing. The necessarily a third party
34:59
testing on my behalf. There's a check and balance in
35:02
that that I think we need to respect.
35:05
All right last one it's a single word blockchain.
35:09
The world needs an immutable. Public record of history as a
35:15
tool. You'll to a lot of things but
35:19
it's not the second coming. So I've always viewed, it's
35:22
important. There's a lot of things you can
35:24
do with it and on it and around it, certain use cases.
35:29
But in a lot of ways, I feel that we wanted to turn it into
35:33
more than necessarily was or is is blockchain just another term
35:39
for I don't know the next internet land rush who has the
35:44
biggest blockchain the Blockchain the blockchain with
35:47
most connections. I don't know that I've given
35:49
enough thought to be qualified to it.
35:51
I think I've I've categorized it as in an important societal
35:57
utility to have a distributed unchangeable historical log.
36:03
I think there's a lot of utility in that and a lot of places
36:07
where and when and how it can improve the efficiency or the
36:11
transparency of things that otherwise are fairly opaque at
36:15
best. And that's it.
36:17
If I've been hearing about blockchain for five years now
36:20
and I was introduced to it and I remember was identifiers of the
36:23
time or Cloud identity Summit. Yeah.
36:25
It was like 2017 or something like that.
36:28
And there was this thing called blockchain.
36:32
What the heck is that? Oh great.
36:34
Another new thing, I'm going to need to learn the identity
36:36
space. You should have bought the only
36:38
way had a chance. Yeah that's true.
36:40
I mean maybe on the Richter Scale if you know blockchain is
36:44
5. Five or six, I think AI is a
36:47
nine or ten, just to put into perspective.
36:50
So what's next for Ping Identity?
36:51
I ask this because yesterday in your keynote, you said more to
36:54
come. Well, we're in pursuit of a user
37:00
experience that is, as frictionless as we can make it.
37:04
And that's not just an end user experience.
37:06
That's an administrative user experience as well.
37:09
So complexity is the enemy. Simplicity is the goal and and
37:16
we need a lot of smart people and a lot of hard work to
37:21
simplify what is inherently pretty.
37:23
Darn complicated. Especially going back to the
37:25
earlier, comment on Legacy. Would all be clean if everyone
37:28
started from scratch and it's not reality for large
37:30
Enterprises. So our challenge is to allow
37:33
Enterprises to live in a modern world with a lot of legacy, and
37:36
not kill themselves in cost and expertise to get there.
37:42
And that's a very, very tall, very, very tall order to achieve
37:46
that user experience. We are going to have to pre
37:48
integrate a lot of independently Berry sophisticated Technologies
37:53
into a set of patterns that by default can be used by companies
37:57
to get them to the 90%. Mark whenever we have someone as
38:01
successful as yourself on the show like to understand what you
38:05
feel your brain with what do you do to sharpen?
38:08
The saw keep yourself forward-looking other than
38:11
listen to the identity of Our pockets.
38:12
As we know that that's just right, actually, I find a lot of
38:16
anecdotes for business in life in a lot of different areas,
38:20
right? So it's like, I read Tech all
38:22
the time to get ideas. So I'll give you an example of
38:24
this. So, on the weekends, I now like
38:26
last couple of years I found kart racing as a little track
38:30
about 15 minutes away so I can get there quickly.
38:32
I keep a couple of cards, they're one of my carts is a
38:35
6-speed shifter car doesn't hundred ten miles an hour.
38:38
Pulls 3GS can pull 3 G's in the Crimea would like break.
38:42
Ribs. So you wear a rib protector.
38:44
And I've been doing it for a couple of years, and I'm not
38:46
great. And it's not like I necessary to
38:48
race. You just racing yourself to see
38:49
if you can shape a tenth of a second off and maybe about three
38:52
or four months ago. One of the one of the kids at
38:55
the track is ranked in Colorado, and he was teaching some of the
38:58
kid and I said, hey can you give me some lessons?
39:01
Hadn't had any so he's like, yeah, I'll do that.
39:04
So he stands the middle of track walks, watches me, go around a
39:06
couple of times and then I pull in a pulls out, a sheet of paper
39:09
and he kind of Drew my path around the track.
39:13
And then he said something that was so incredibly profound in
39:17
life and in business not just in track racing, he said he was
39:21
really the goal in truck. Racing is pretty simple right?
39:23
And he goes any racing because you're trying to create the
39:25
straightest lines around the track as late as possible.
39:29
So it was a lot of times when you approach like a chicane or a
39:31
set of things, he goes if you approach every turn is if it
39:36
were its own, Turn versus a series of turns, you have to
39:39
connect them all, because you're going to find their Ins where
39:43
you need to sacrifice one turn. In order to line yourself up to
39:48
draw a straight line through the other two and you can't do it.
39:52
If you take the first one too fast because you want your card
39:55
ends up here and your cart needs to be right here.
39:57
And then watch How I can just draw a straight line through the
40:00
tips of those other turns and goes out allows me.
40:03
And those once you get through those other turns, it says, big
40:05
straight away. So I basically have added to the
40:07
straight away by boot. Good, 80 feet.
40:10
And it goes out gets maximum speed through the track.
40:13
Anything about life. And you think about our do we
40:17
have the wisdom to sacrifice a turn in order to create the
40:21
longest straightaway? So to be fast in life, requires
40:26
certain sacrifices, but I just it was, it was a little bit
40:29
mind-blowing to hear that advice and I could just see how in so
40:36
many places was I aware? That my goal wasn't just to take
40:40
every obstacle and just On the gas as if every obstacle was its
40:45
own obstacle, or do I connect the obstacles?
40:48
And am I willing to sacrifice one to achieve the greater
40:52
outcome? So now, it sounds like you gave
40:54
this law. I thought, did you go back and
40:56
kind of while you're sipping your coffee in the morning?
41:00
Reflect on that. Reflect on your life and say,
41:03
Here's Where I actually did give up a curve to go straight onto.
41:07
I was pretty sure I never gave up a curve, let's just be really
41:09
clear. I was pretty sure you hit
41:11
everything Full Throttle. And you take every obstacle, you
41:14
know what I mean is if it's an independent obstacle and you
41:17
never really kind of connect them into, it's like chess
41:20
versus Checkers, right? And what he was really saying is
41:23
to be fast around the track, you're playing chess, you're
41:26
thinking two or three steps ahead, you don't treat every
41:29
move as if it's an independent move and moves in life are
41:34
similar. If you viewed everything as
41:36
simply an independent decision and not a connected decision,
41:41
you're missing the chess In your own game.
41:44
Same thing holds true with businesses or any, you know,
41:46
major decision-making sequence. So, I've reflected from first of
41:52
all, it blew my mind immediately.
41:54
Because I knew exactly what he was saying, and I knew that I
41:56
did it wrong consistently inherently, did it wrong?
42:00
And there was a wisdom out of a seventeen-year-old.
42:04
Yeah, that was very profound. Very profound.
42:07
So, do you race against other people?
42:09
Because I've done go-kart racing not at the speeds but I find it
42:13
very stressful. People trying to cut you off and
42:16
you start to see people's like aggression come out.
42:19
Yeah. I'm a little afraid to do that
42:24
one because the competitive Gene is a little bit Jekyll and Hyde
42:30
and I have it and I had it since a kid.
42:32
I mean I do think it's a little bit genetic and I learned early
42:36
that that I lose friends over at some point.
42:41
I had to decide do I want friendship or do I want to win.
42:45
And and then when I made the decision, I value friend over
42:50
winning, I purposely never put myself in situations, where, you
42:57
know, Jekyll could come out. That's pretty profound to.
42:59
I mean, have you seen like the documentaries on like Michael
43:04
Jordan and Derek Jeter? It's like those guys are so
43:08
competitive. Hey, could not stand losing.
43:11
If you're flipping quarters, they had to win.
43:14
Yeah, yeah. No, no.
43:15
No, I I empathize with them because I know what that I know
43:18
what that feels like and and I associate it with a certain
43:23
amount of personal ugliness, you know, like what is more
43:27
important is winning more important or is relationship
43:31
more important. It is, how do you make people
43:34
feel? At the end of the day, go to
43:35
about about and it's not it's not like, I'm not afraid of
43:39
winning either, and I'm not ashamed of it.
43:42
But there's a difference. There's a difference between
43:45
Having to win. Or else scorched-earth sort of
43:50
thing which when I was a kid and it was unabashed and it was
43:55
about winning, that's what it was like.
43:58
And, you know, just winning while you're having a good time
44:01
and, you know, it's all in good jest and, you know, maybe I've
44:03
practiced a lot. What's the fastest you've gone?
44:06
Did you get that up to 110? Got up to 97 the straightaway.
44:10
One of our, one of our, one of our courses is about a mile
44:13
course, in the back straightaway.
44:15
My friend has gotten it up to 103.
44:17
So I do know that I could exit that corner entering that
44:20
straight away. Probably three miles for Miles
44:22
faster. No 97.
44:25
The problem is, it's 97 to hit 96 as you hit maximum speed,
44:28
right? The it's how long you're willing
44:31
to stay on the gas and it comes into a U-turn.
44:34
So it's a full hairpin turn at the end.
44:36
So it is how confident are you yours on the gas to the last
44:43
second and then you need to brake in a straight line so you
44:46
just run out of space. So it's Got to slow down enough
44:49
in order to dares. If you crash, I mean, you kill
44:52
yourself, right? I mean, I guess you could.
44:54
I never feel that way on these courses.
44:57
I mean there's kind of dirt around the cement typically
44:59
you're just off in the weeds and bunch of dust and dirt in the
45:01
cart. It's not like you're hit a wall
45:03
or do anything like that. So you said you're wearing
45:05
protective gear and mascot. Got a jumpsuit on a helmet, some
45:09
gloves? Yeah.
45:10
I mean, the the bigger problem to your comment about racing,
45:14
you get a lot of fast moving objects around each other.
45:17
In that stained dress. If I'm just out on the course
45:20
going for lap time and you know, I'm not around other cards.
45:23
Chances are, I'm not going to get hurt.
45:25
It's one of the carts Ram into you.
45:26
You ram into them. Yeah, right.
45:29
Or they catch your tire with their Tire or something that's
45:32
happened. That's happened.
45:34
I have seen pictures of people flipping and flipping in a
45:37
cards, pretty darn dangerous. No roll cage in.
45:39
There's no seat belt. Yeah, my girlfriend's family is
45:42
into researching sprint cars and her nephew had an accident
45:47
rolled us. In car six or seven times.
45:49
Like, but he came in. Yeah, it didn't catch fire.
45:52
And he had, you know what, like, the four-point harness and now
45:57
they're pretty safe. Yeah, actually.
46:00
Yeah, other than the money that is gone because you have to
46:03
rebuild the cage and everything. Yeah, fun per dollar, which I
46:08
track, I call it. My happiness quotient.
46:10
I'm very conscious of actually done a spreadsheet on that.
46:13
You take everything, you spend money on, you put it into a
46:15
spreadsheet and you come up with your own.
46:17
Them on how much utility or joy you get from it and you compare
46:21
it to everything that you spend money on, go from restaurants to
46:24
food to houses to fancy cars, and you run a ratio.
46:27
And what's interesting is not what the absolute number is
46:29
because everyone's scale is different.
46:31
But if you're applying the same scale to yourself in the right
46:35
way, what's interesting is the relationship in the multiple of
46:38
Happiness between different purchases.
46:41
And when I think about like, you know, I've got friends that are
46:44
racing gt3s and I'm racing at 12,000 dollar Shifter Kart and I
46:50
can pretty much guarantee that my fun per dollar.
46:54
Is way higher. This is the same model fun but
46:58
far fewer dollars. That's it.
47:00
I mean you got it. Divide in order to get a
47:02
framework for how to spend his money on this is Hast.
47:04
I like it. Tell me about this this scale
47:07
like so when you say happiness? Yeah, is this.
47:11
So I came up with, so I like I said, I was just curious.
47:13
I did a spreadsheet and like it's like all the formula
47:16
happiness quotient. And it's just you, we all do it.
47:20
Like, if you went to a hotel and you spent too much money, Any at
47:24
a hotel for just spending the night in the back of your head.
47:28
You're thinking that was a waste of money, like I could have
47:31
spent a lot less and even that was just exhausts or something,
47:35
whatever, like everyone is different in but we all do it in
47:38
the back of our head, but we don't do it as consciously.
47:42
We're not like running the math. So, to speak on where where
47:47
people spend their, where you spend your money and how much
47:50
joy, it gives you now if you really want to run the formula,
47:53
I figured out. Actually have to add utility in
47:55
there too because take a look at take like your daily driver.
47:58
You spend a lot of money on a car might be fancy.
48:01
Car might just be utility cart but if you use it 365 days out
48:04
of a year versus a sports car that sits in the garage that you
48:07
might take out for weekends. A year somehow that has to
48:10
factor into the utility, has to factor into it.
48:13
So I added that to the equation to.
48:15
I like how many days is it used? And then you come up with, you
48:18
know, low medium, high extra high and you just pick a number
48:22
associated with low, does it? Does it, give me joy, low,
48:25
medium high, extra high. How much utility do I get?
48:29
And you basically, you put the price of everything you put in
48:33
your evaluation and you get a number at the end.
48:35
You cannot mix warmer. One utility maximizer in a
48:39
sense. This is maximizing the utility
48:41
and it makes you conscientious. Here's what I figured out.
48:46
I figured out the things that you spend money on that are
48:49
associated with your ego. Blow the equation.
48:54
So say for example some people love cars, some people buy fancy
48:57
cars because it feeds our ego. There's a difference between the
49:01
two when you spend money to fill the ego.
49:05
But bucket, The Joy per dollar happiness, quotient, if you're
49:10
really honest with yourself and like that line it up with all
49:13
the other things that you spend money on how much joy, it gives
49:15
you, you could, you could buy one of the once a week.
49:20
I don't know one of those food delivery.
49:22
Services, that cost, 20 bucks and your family makes dinner
49:25
together. And once a week, you have dinner
49:27
together cost, 20 bucks and you had dinner together as a family.
49:31
The Joy per dollar on that. Purchase is extremely high.
49:37
I'd electric skateboard that when my dog was young, walking
49:41
dog wasn't a chore. I would skateboard with the dog
49:44
and I would look over and I'm skating.
49:46
So, I'm having fun and my dog is so happy running because can't
49:51
run with me, can run with the skateboard.
49:53
So the two of us are having the best time together.
49:58
Like that fun per dollar. The true Joy of those moments
50:03
are profound. Anyway, it's a cool little
50:07
exercise, it's really cool. I am a hacker and and thinking
50:12
of ways to add Biometrics to this.
50:14
What is your heart rate say when you're experiencing it?
50:16
Right? Adding that biometric into.
50:18
It's okay, well my pulse got to so-and-so so therefore it's this
50:23
much more exciting or whatever. Maybe I digress you've been very
50:28
generous Time so on. And you know, let you get on
50:30
with our the conference here which has been amazing before we
50:34
go. Any words of wisdom that you
50:36
want to share with folks that are out there.
50:38
As podcast is heard around the world, we've got thousands
50:41
millions of listeners and they're everywhere.
50:44
And they're, they range from all walks of life, levels of
50:49
knowledge and the identity industry, things like that.
50:52
What's something that you would tell somebody in the identity
50:54
space as we stand here right now, May 31st 20:23.
50:59
So an identity specific piece of advice.
51:03
I would say. And look, this comment will go
51:05
back a little bit to orchestration, I think taking
51:09
the time to inherently. Keep our identity systems.
51:14
Agile will pay dividends. I just changes in the future at
51:19
a faster and faster pace. And so if we don't anticipate an
51:24
architect and, or invest in the ability to To adapt.
51:29
We're going to be at a loss. You just will never be able to
51:32
keep up. You'll always be behind the
51:34
eight ball. That makes sense.
51:36
So it is, it is, it is a conscious investment in future
51:42
agility future speed and I think those are one of the Investments
51:47
that pay outsized, dividends lots of Happiness on that one.
51:52
I've got one Jeff, and then I'll pass it to you.
51:54
So mine was actually king of something.
51:57
Andre said about out the 17 year old sage advice leader.
52:01
This profound I've been here to Denver's now for like 24 hours.
52:06
And, you know, during Andres keynote, I learned so much
52:11
Andres, you know, at the, at the top level in our industry.
52:16
But last night, we had an event. And I associated with a lot of
52:20
folks, who are identity practitioners folks like myself
52:24
and a lot of profound thoughts, and Experiences that people
52:29
having sex like I guess the takeaway for me was like you
52:33
really can learn from everyone right there.
52:37
It's different people, bring different things to the table,
52:40
put that cap on, put that lens on and try especially at a
52:44
conference like this, it's like such an opportunity to
52:47
interface, the people who are doing important things at their
52:50
organizations man I'm already walking we're only halfway
52:54
through and I'm already like walking out of here with my
52:57
money's worth. Hmm, I don't have anything
53:00
profound to say, but the connection with people has been
53:03
the biggest thing. I think we missed it last, you
53:05
know, few years, I was depend on make things been canceled, but
53:07
the hallway conversations sitting down in a room with
53:11
Andre, this is something that had we done this in the past.
53:14
It would have been something remote over, you know, a zoom or
53:16
equivalent. Write something like that.
53:18
But being able to walk through the hallways and see people's
53:21
like Oh shoot that's that's Vittorio and is gorgeous locks
53:24
of hair, right? I mean things like that, right?
53:27
Walking down the hall or You know, seeing David Lee, the
53:30
identity Jedi are seeing and rakantha phone.
53:32
I, you know, I am at hers are all things identity, having
53:37
really The, Who's Who of identity in one building?
53:40
And I mean, just one building in a really kind of compact area
53:43
part of the building and be able to see these people and talk
53:46
with them has been the best part.
53:48
It's something that I've been coming to identifiers for you're
53:51
saying. This is my seventh if I recall
53:54
and it's it gets bigger and bigger and bigger every time,
53:57
you know, it's shifted from cloud, identity. obviously, you
53:58
know this because it started as a ping, you know, thing and it's
54:04
the home for the ID Pro organization and we've seen this
54:08
community pop-up and I think that's the thing that For folks
54:12
who don't know, the identity Community is very welcoming.
54:16
You can talk to literally anybody.
54:18
I mean, here are you, and I talking to Andre and we're
54:21
having a conversation identity and happiness quotient things in
54:24
the ribs. And it's, and it's cool and
54:26
that's not uncommon in the identity space.
54:29
We have conversations, you know, you and I were very fortunate to
54:32
talk with a lot of folks but those folks are just as generous
54:36
with their time on the show floor in a hallway, whatever may
54:39
be, and they're all very receptive.
54:40
I think that's From a, from a profound standpoint, I recognize
54:44
that and I don't dismiss it because it was gone for so long
54:48
and it's back baby. You don't, you don't take these
54:52
moments, you realize that conferences, you don't create a
54:56
nuclear reaction without containment heat in ideation,
55:00
and learning comes with close proximity.
55:03
So, what what we do in conferences, there's a time and
55:06
a place, very short, amount of time and very confined space in
55:11
which which we improve the odds of whatever 42 is curated
55:15
Serendipity. The Serendipity of seeing you
55:19
don't mean Vittorio others. Walk down the Halls happens more
55:23
here than out in the wild and you never know what when
55:28
everyone is sharing the same mind space and problem space.
55:33
How the ideas we always see. And maybe one of the biggest
55:36
Joy's I have in conference business was you always see an
55:39
acceleration? Of the group think that comes
55:42
out of two days. The whole industry takes a leap
55:47
as a result of two days of being together that special.
55:52
It is let me tell you a story. It was Chicago few years back.
55:58
I think, I don't know if I'd ever see that point actually
56:00
might be because I think it was the original year that Ida Pro
56:03
is founded and we were in the Chicago building.
56:06
I remember it was downtown and I saw you and you were standing
56:09
off to the side. And I walked past you and I was
56:13
like, I should have introduced myself and I've been kicking
56:16
myself ever since then. So this thing, it was 2016 and
56:20
he's like, I missed my chance. Here we are seven years later.
56:24
It will Circle. Thank you for taking the time
56:26
with us. My pleasure.
56:27
Thanks guys. You've been listening to
56:30
Identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed the show,
56:34
make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon,
56:39
but in the meantime, hit the website at identity at the
56:42
center.com and find us on Twitter at ivac podcast.
56:49
See you next time on identity at the center,