Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 193. Origins of the Podcast, Writing a Book , and Is Smoking Cigars a Sin - Special Guest Jon Hollifield - 100,000 Downloads

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193. Origins of the Podcast, Writing a Book , and Is Smoking Cigars a Sin - Special Guest Jon Hollifield - 100,000 Downloads · 4-Freedom Podcast

• 0:00
  For freedom set me free. Not for change, not for guilt,
• 0:03
  not for Pharisee. Bracelet the flame.
• 0:06
  Now I'm puffing. Peace signals and victory
• 0:09
  justified. Released Welcome to the For
• 0:13
  Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the
• 0:17
  freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
• 0:20
  everyday issues. I ain't.
• 0:22
  Saved by dress codes, not by what I eat.
• 0:24
  I'm covered in the righteousness.
• 0:26
  Washed from head to feet. No tally of tradition, No man
• 0:29
  made code. Blood bought my freedom.
• 0:31
  Now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see
• 0:33
  smoke rings rise. But my prey still ascends past
• 0:37
  the legalist cries. Christ plus nothing.
• 0:39
  That's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws
• 0:42
  and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting
• 0:45
  with Saints. Slipping grace from the bottle,
• 0:47
  No room for face. I like one for liberty.
• 0:50
  Toast to the king. Every ash of sermon.
• 0:53
  Death has lost its sting. For freedom He set me free, Not
• 0:57
  for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee Grace, Let the
• 1:00
  flame now I'm puffing peace, cigars and victory justified,
• 1:04
  released. For freedom, He set me free.
• 1:07
  Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee grace.
• 1:11
  Let the flame now puffing peace, cigars and victory justified,
• 1:15
  released. Welcome back to the Four Freedom
• 1:29
  podcast. What a great time it is to be
• 1:32
  here with you today. Special episode today, special
• 1:36
  guest Forest Brett is at his convention and so he's not going
• 1:40
  to be able to be here to talk with us.
• 1:42
  And so I brought in an old friend who's here with me doing
• 1:45
  revival this week at our church and live episode here for you
• 1:49
  today. Excited about this, John, hear
• 1:53
  back from the from the grave. It took a sabbatical from the
• 1:57
  podcast for a year and a half now and we've pulled him back
• 2:01
  out. We threw a life jacket, even
• 2:03
  said, hey, how's things going? And so he's back with us today.
• 2:06
  John, tell us how life has been going since you've been going
• 2:08
  away from the podcast. Life has How's it been going
• 2:12
  since I've left the podcast? Well, it's been, it's been
• 2:16
  going, it's been ministry and pastoring and all those
• 2:22
  different things. But yeah, it's it's been good.
• 2:26
  Tell us about Pastor How? How has that been, man?
• 2:29
  Yeah. Pastor.
• 2:31
  You're not used to been on a podcast.
• 2:32
  Yeah, I don't know it pastoring has been in.
• 2:34
  It's, you know, James, you do it, you've been.
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  That's an interesting question. It's something I've been
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  thinking about actually a lot lately because you've been in
• 2:49
  the senior pastor role for how many years now?
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  Year, 2 years now, just celebrated 2 years since Mitch
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  resigned and I sort of took over some admin roles there for a
• 3:01
  while. That was five years ago.
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  OK, Five and a half, 4 1/2 years.
• 3:04
  Ago me and you both have been doing ministry for like you
• 3:08
  know, since college. Yeah, 15 years for.
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  Me 1516 to 20 years, Yeah. And while ministry has its
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  challenges, it's different, right?
• 3:18
  And definitely Joyce. I think the one thing that I
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  wasn't, I didn't realize was the jump of of senior of like what
• 3:33
  we call senior pastoring. All right, being that the
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  difference in it, there is a difference.
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  It's hard to articulate and, and, and maybe I'm just on an
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  island by myself over here. I don't know if you feel the
• 3:46
  same way, but there there is a difference.
• 3:49
  There is a difference. And it seemed much simpler when
• 3:54
  you could sit back and say this is how things should be done.
• 3:58
  And then sometimes think, well, if I was doing, I would do it
• 4:01
  this way to now you're the one and you and everything comes to
• 4:06
  you. Yeah, almost like you, you know
• 4:12
  how to solve the problems when they're actually not there.
• 4:14
  Or you don't have to give the final say, but then once the
• 4:17
  actual final say is there, it's like, oh, this is a little
• 4:19
  harder than I. Thought and you're taking into
• 4:20
  account, OK, like all the ramifications when you make a
• 4:23
  decision or you make a choice or you do a certain thing like how
• 4:26
  it's going to affect this how it's going to affect this, who's
• 4:28
  going to like it who's not going to like it, those types of
• 4:30
  things. So it there's a different weight
• 4:32
  to it. There's a different thing that
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  I'm still learning and navigating and, and, you know,
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  there's a healthy balance, I think between you don't want to
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  go One Direction to where you're just a politician trying to
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  please everybody. But at the same time, you don't
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  want to go to the totally other extreme saying this is the way
• 4:52
  I'm going to do things, you know, get on board or get run
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  over. You know what I mean?
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  So it's, it's like, so there, there's that aspect to it.
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  And then there's there's the spiritual weight aspect to this
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  is as Hebrews talks about, this is a watch care.
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  You're given the watch care over souls.
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  And so I think that if you take that seriously, then yeah,
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  there's a way that comes to it. But it's fun.
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  It's also there's a great enjoyment to it.
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  So I don't want to start off by saying like.
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  Oh man. It's so hard, but it's a, it's a
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  good, you know, I enjoy it. It's a good time.
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  One of the things you said reminded me of when I first got
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  here at Pleasant Grove. We were talking with some ladies
• 5:37
  about Bible school and I asked like, OK, well, what are we
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  going to do this or what curriculum or something along
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  those lines of what are we going to do?
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  And the ladies looked at me and said, well, you're the pastor.
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  You tell us up until this point, every decision I could pass off
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  and say, well, you know, let so and so to make that decision or,
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  you know, let's ask this person, but there was no one to ask.
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  I was the guy in that moment that I had to ask because I'm
• 6:06
  the guy that's making that decision.
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  So it was it was a quite of a different turn in that sense.
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  You're here preaching revival. Join that with you this week
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  have enjoyed the fellowship that we've had together.
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  How are all right, John? So how are things with the
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  revival going? How have you enjoyed your time
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  here for the last couple of days as you drove in Sunday night and
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  we've been able to preach a little bit.
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  I did Chapel this morning at Statesville Christian School and
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  just tell me how things are going, man.
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  Yeah, it's good, good time. We've had a blast so far.
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  Panthers lost on Sunday. Panthers lost.
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  A lot of people lost. Yeah, yeah.
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  Dolphins won, baby. Oh my goodness, yeah, it's it's
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  we got to watch some football and spend some time together.
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  So it's been a good time and preached on Psalm 23 last night.
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  Going to be going to Isaiah 6. I think he's the theme is
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  restore. And so we've talked about
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  restore your soul, restore your worship is tonight and then
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  going to lead that into restoring your home.
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  And so, yeah, looking forward to it and just, it's exciting good
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  time to, to, you know, in the busyness and the hustle bustle
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  to sort of have a, a moment to stop and focus on the word of
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  God and, and worship and that kind of thing.
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  And so these, these times, these, these events, these
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  meetings are always a good time. And and yeah, absolutely love
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  hanging out and enjoying our time together.
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  Yeah. Well, a couple of questions we
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  got for you 5 years ago, 5 1/2 years ago, you decided to start
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  a little podcast the called the Four Freedom Podcast.
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  What what caused you to start that?
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  Some of our listeners are new listeners from when you started
• 7:56
  at five years ago, people that you don't even know that have
• 8:00
  reached out to us. Why did you start it?
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  Did you ever think you'd be at it would be at this point of
• 8:06
  where it's at and what what's your thoughts on that?
• 8:09
  Yeah. OK.
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  So did I ever think is, let me try to take this into order, All
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  right, five years ago, all right, Why did I start it?
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  And that kind of thing you got to it was definitely started in
• 8:25
  the context of what was going on at the time.
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  All right, so #1 COVID was going on, right?
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  I mean, COVID, as everybody knows, it slowed everything
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  down. Everybody was sort of taking a
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  step back, you know, the there was things coming, people were
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  working from home, all of this stuff.
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  So, so not a lot of stuff was going on.
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  Things have slowed down. SO1 aspect of it was there was
• 8:55
  time. There was time to do this kind
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  of thing. And you know me and you are the
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  type of people that we don't like sitting still.
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  We like to be busy and doing something productive.
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  So that's one aspect of it. Another aspect of it is, is this
• 9:12
  as well, because at the time I had, we had left the IFP.
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  And so this, this podcast talks a lot about the independent
• 9:25
  fundamental Baptist movement. I mean, you just got there doing
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  a series, right? You did a series.
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  Yeah, we did the the foundations of fundamentalism.
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  We sort of picked back up from where you left off years ago.
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  You went up to Jack House and a couple of those forefathers.
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  So we just picked up from there and sort of follow the trail of
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  after Jack, Jack Howell's the Crown, the guys that sort of
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  continued that legacy, Bob Jones, Bob Gray, those guys.
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  And now we're looking at the found the the future
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  fundamentalism. We've looked at Eric and West
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  Coast. We'll be looking at Charlie
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  Clark and some of those other guys that are on the scene now
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  of the future fundamentalism. So yeah.
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  So it's, it's no secret that, that, that that has that is our
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  past and that is a relevant part of, of what the podcast is
• 10:17
  about. But at the time, 2020, I had
• 10:21
  left the independent fundamental Baptist movement in 2013.
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  So it's it would it had been seven years.
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  I in my mind, I was net. There was no going back.
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  I'd grown in areas of theology at the time and had really
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  definitely sealed a lot of areas where I believe completely
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  differently than them. And then heard an interview
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  through the Preacher boys podcast and I was like, huh.
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  And I guess if you want to use this term, it, it awoke where it
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  brought out things that I think that I hadn't processed maybe
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  or, or I don't want to say dealt with, but I hadn't processed, I
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  hadn't worked through them. I was just, I was in a mode of
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  just growing like drinking from a fire hydrant.
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  And I've never stopped and slowed down and thought through
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  what we had been taught, what we had experienced in that kind of
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  stuff and fundamentalism and where to where to categorize
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  that, where to place that. So you combined the extra time
• 11:31
  with COVID. You, you then do that.
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  I go and do an interview with Eric Scorsinski on the Preacher
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  boy, preacher boys podcast and hear more and more about people
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  talking about this and talking about this.
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  And I'm, and I'm thinking at the time, man, some of these people
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  haven't had, haven't gone through the seven years that
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  I've gone through and they need help going through this.
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  So I don't know if that was a little bit of an arrogant thing.
• 11:57
  It was born out of a heart of like wanting to help.
• 12:00
  But, you know, and I was in the middle too of, of training for
• 12:05
  counseling. So I think there's a lot of that
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  sort of played into it. And I thought, well, why don't I
• 12:10
  throw my hat in the ring with a podcast and just talk to me.
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  I honestly thought, OK, if if 30 to 50 people would listen to it,
• 12:22
  then yeah, man, I could. I could help somebody.
• 12:25
  In fact, I actually had a criteria.
• 12:27
  I don't know if I ever told you this, but I had laid out this
• 12:32
  that I was going to do 10 episodes.
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  And if by the end of 10 episodes, I had not gotten past
• 12:40
  100 downloads, I'll just wrap it up.
• 12:44
  I, I consider it like this ain't happening.
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  This ain't going nowhere. Nobody's listening.
• 12:48
  This was sort of a failed experiment.
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  And of course that didn't happen.
• 12:51
  Like it it, I'm not saying it blew up.
• 12:54
  It didn't blow up. It wasn't like a, you know, a
• 12:56
  massive success or anything like that, but it was definitely more
• 12:58
  than 100 people after, you know, 10 episodes.
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  It was just definitely each episode was getting up to 300 to
• 13:06
  405 hundred downloads. And then by the time we were
• 13:10
  about the time you came on and, and those types of things, we
• 13:13
  were getting 1000 downloads an episode.
• 13:15
  So it seemed like definitely something that that people were
• 13:18
  looking for at the time. Yeah, of course I was, I was, I
• 13:22
  have to be honest, I think I was processing things as well.
• 13:26
  So I I dare say if you go back and listen to the beginning
• 13:29
  episodes, I might be a little bit more antagonistic.
• 13:33
  I might be a little bit more emotional.
• 13:34
  I might be a little bit more like ready to go to battle a
• 13:38
  little bit. But my thing, I, I, I thought so
• 13:44
  you had the RFP going, you had the Preacher boys podcast going.
• 13:48
  We know how the preacher boys podcast, the direction it went.
• 13:51
  You know, Eric Swarzinski ended up apostasizing from the faith.
• 13:54
  And that's not a listen. That's, that's not trying to
• 13:57
  like tear him down or anything. That's just a literal.
• 14:00
  That's that's that's a literal definition of the term of
• 14:02
  somebody who leads the. Words that apostasize use words.
• 14:05
  When they have meaning, yeah. Yeah.
• 14:06
  And and so that goes there. And while he was doing abuse, it
• 14:10
  felt like the RFP guys were trying to handle things a little
• 14:12
  bit sort of from a ministry point of perspective and that
• 14:16
  kind of thing. And my thinking of was trying to
• 14:19
  approach it from a little bit more of bringing the two
• 14:24
  together, addressing the abuse, but understanding that the abuse
• 14:28
  also has ties to a theological understanding.
• 14:32
  And that is that those who do it are those who do those types of
• 14:37
  things, do those types of things either because they haven't been
• 14:39
  changed in their heart by the gospel or that they have very
• 14:43
  faulty theological belief. And they are, you know, what
• 14:49
  what they're doing is sinful. And their theology is actually
• 14:52
  not having an effect on their sinful hearts on the way that
• 14:54
  they treat people. But then also some of the
• 14:56
  theological problems that I believe still exist in some of
• 15:02
  the IFB circles. And so we did episodes on the
• 15:05
  King James Onlyism. We did episodes on preaching.
• 15:09
  We did episodes a little bit, I think on on some on the church.
• 15:11
  And then we got into talking about counseling and that kind
• 15:14
  of thing. So.
• 15:16
  So, yeah. What was the the original
• 15:18
  question was why did I start it? Yeah.
• 15:20
  Why did you start? So I started it because I wanted
• 15:23
  to speak into that area. You became woke.
• 15:27
  You use the term if you. I I did not woke.
• 15:31
  Oh my goodness. Which?
• 15:32
  Just simply means he became woke.
• 15:34
  I didn't. And needed to share some things
• 15:37
  right? Listen, I love it.
• 15:38
  I listen to him. Your words, not mine.
• 15:42
  Oh yeah. So that's why y'all kicked me
• 15:46
  off of the podcast. John was getting woke.
• 15:47
  That's the real reason the truth has come out.
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  If you notice, right when John left we did a whole series on
• 15:52
  wokeness in the church. Just said everything.
• 15:54
  To address the, the issues of John and where he was going, we
• 15:58
  had to say everything straight. Absolutely.
• 16:00
  Hey, so I pulled up the analytics just a little bit.
• 16:03
  So the, the one we use is podcasters for Spotify.
• 16:08
  And today, at the time of this recording, we're like 20
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  downloads shy of 100,000 downloads.
• 16:15
  So when this comes out, we'll have 100,000 downloads, which is
• 16:18
  a huge milestone for the podcast.
• 16:20
  Five years in, I would have hoped that we'd have got a
• 16:22
  little sooner. But as I just look at analytics
• 16:25
  and look at things, that's that's a huge thing.
• 16:29
  Thoughts on that? 100,000 downloads?
• 16:31
  Would you have thought five years ago that 100,000 people,
• 16:34
  not 100,000 people, but 100,000 clicks to listen to our episode
• 16:38
  would have been there? No, no, not at all 100,000 I
• 16:42
  even know what that means. Yeah, that yeah.
• 16:45
  So that's that's pretty crazy. I almost sort of say a little, I
• 16:48
  don't know. There's a part of me that's
• 16:49
  that's a little scary. It's like, oh, no, like have I
• 16:53
  said dumb things? You know, it's out there.
• 16:57
  But but no, I, I hope that some of that is, is, is true biblical
• 17:02
  and true gospel help that has helped people and and that's,
• 17:06
  you know, in another way that's. Really cool.
• 17:08
  Yeah, I pulled up the episode rankings.
• 17:11
  Want to talk top five episodes according to downloads, not
• 17:15
  necessarily our top five episodes.
• 17:17
  Number one episode top download is episode #22 it was the King
• 17:23
  James Only is on Part 1. Really.
• 17:25
  That's number one. That is the number one with 1600
• 17:29
  downloads. Plus that number 2 goes to Amy
• 17:34
  Miller. I say this often, Amy, She came
• 17:36
  on. We talked about modesty.
• 17:38
  Biblical modesty IB Modesty versus Biblical modesty Episode
• 17:41
  31 and that's got 15 over. 15 and that's one of those
• 17:47
  theological topics, yeah, right. Because I one of the biggest
• 17:51
  problems was, and listen, modesty is a good thing.
• 17:54
  We, we, I think we, we addressed that in the episode.
• 17:56
  Modesty is a biblical thing. But there's a big
• 17:58
  misunderstanding of what modesty is and the emphasis based on
• 18:03
  modesty. And what ends up happening is
• 18:04
  that modesty becomes what some dude claims as his standard of
• 18:09
  modesty. And they leave with a
• 18:11
  theological biblical understanding and interpretation
• 18:15
  of of what, what it teaches about modesty.
• 18:17
  So that, yeah, that's cool. #3 Top three episodes so far Was
• 18:22
  the 4th episode you did The history of the IFB Part 1 J
• 18:26
  Frank Norris The response to the abuse at Hopewell Baptist
• 18:31
  Church. Yeah, that was when I was like
• 18:33
  doing. I was looking at current events
• 18:35
  too. So I that in the title, because
• 18:37
  I mean that, I mean, people would listen to that and the
• 18:41
  first part of it, they're probably going to be like, what
• 18:42
  is he talking about? But then you get into the
• 18:44
  history part of it. And that was something that I've
• 18:46
  done, man, I've done so much research.
• 18:49
  It was difficult too, because the, not a whole lot had been
• 18:52
  written about the, the IFB that we knew and trying to find
• 18:58
  research about that. You know, there's a lot about
• 19:00
  the fundamentalism movement as a whole, but the pocket of
• 19:03
  independent fundamental Baptist. It was difficult.
• 19:07
  So I, I'd probably, I can't, I read, I'd say six to seven
• 19:13
  books, a couple of doctoral, doctoral dissertations.
• 19:18
  And, and so that was just sort of like all that building up and
• 19:22
  I've got to tell somebody. So I was just sort of
• 19:24
  categorized it and threw it out there.
• 19:26
  Episode number, top fourth episode, and we'll just do this.
• 19:30
  Four and five was episode #16 I had just come on to the podcast,
• 19:34
  I believe. Yeah, I was just on the podcast
• 19:37
  as a full time host because we get paid full time to do this.
• 19:41
  So yeah. Was the interview with anything
• 19:44
  or that? Aren't you just bitter?
• 19:46
  OK, yeah, yeah. And that's always a big thing,
• 19:49
  right? Well, that was so right there at
• 19:52
  the early part, right? The RFP was going, they were
• 19:54
  about half a year to a year end. Of course, Eric at the time
• 19:59
  doing the Preacher Boys podcast was getting hammered with this
• 20:01
  like crazy because he was doing like, exposing abuse stuff.
• 20:05
  And then I was getting this as well with some of the stuff that
• 20:08
  I was doing. And that was the main crisis.
• 20:11
  The only reason you're criticizing is because you're
• 20:13
  bitter. And it's like, okay, well, let's
• 20:16
  examine that for a second. And so me and Nate, I got Nathan
• 20:18
  to come on and do an interview and who was a Co host of the
• 20:22
  recovering fundamentalist podcast and and we talked about
• 20:25
  bitterness. And I think that that's that
• 20:28
  probably while some of those other ones were informational
• 20:31
  and theological, I think that one was probably has helped.
• 20:35
  A lot of people and that one we, we released the video interview
• 20:39
  of that on YouTube and it's one of our highest performing
• 20:42
  YouTube videos that we have not that we have a whole massive
• 20:46
  YouTube audience, but. We're catching up with Mr.
• 20:48
  Beast. We're.
• 20:48
  Trying to get there. And then the 5th episode is the
• 20:52
  history of the IFB Part 5 Jack Howes.
• 20:55
  And that was episode #8 that you did top the the 1st 8 episode,
• 20:59
  10 episodes there, August 1st of 2020.
• 21:02
  That was when that came out. And yeah, so just people are
• 21:07
  interested in that. We could go down the line here
• 21:11
  and look at some other things that you did with Matthew Lyon,
• 21:14
  another Nathan Cravat when he had that debate recap.
• 21:18
  But just a lot of great things that we've had the opportunity
• 21:21
  of of been a part of and just cool things that that people
• 21:26
  interviews guys that we had come on that we never thought we'd
• 21:28
  have come on. I think back to the interview
• 21:32
  that I got to do with all the music guy, He plays the piano
• 21:40
  T4G. John Tesh.
• 21:42
  No. Lang Lang.
• 21:45
  No. Your piano guy.
• 21:47
  The Piano Guys. No the.
• 21:52
  Bob Marachi. Bob Coughlin.
• 21:53
  Bob Coughlin. OK, Yeah.
• 21:55
  Sovereign Case Music. Oh man, when I, I sent him an
• 21:57
  e-mail and you know, I just said, Hey, I, we're doing a
• 22:01
  podcast. We're talking about biblical
• 22:02
  view of music. We, we deal with the independent
• 22:05
  fundamental Baptist and legalism.
• 22:07
  And he emailed me back and said, I normally don't do interviews,
• 22:12
  but I find your topic so interesting because I deal with
• 22:15
  the independent fundamental Baptist and the legalism in my
• 22:19
  music, often with even songwriters.
• 22:22
  And people come in and we just had a fantastic.
• 22:26
  So just interviews like that that have just come up from the
• 22:28
  podcast. And people have been able to
• 22:30
  talk to Jim Neuheiser several times, Christina Chapel several
• 22:33
  times has just been been great over the years.
• 22:37
  Yeah. So you mentioned a couple of
• 22:38
  names, Preacher Boys, when when this thing started, there were a
• 22:41
  couple of of podcasts. We sort of joked around last
• 22:44
  night about it. Preacher Boys podcast, He's
• 22:47
  apostatize. We're part of the the RFP
• 22:50
  network. It's now no longer in existence.
• 22:53
  The RFP, the episodes are out, but the RFP is no longer there.
• 22:58
  JC is taking that in a different direction with the new Following
• 23:00
  the Way podcast. And then there was the church
• 23:03
  split, that split, that split. And so ironically in their name,
• 23:08
  that has happened. But the fourth freedom has
• 23:10
  staged. The church split is still going.
• 23:12
  It's still going. Your boys is still going.
• 23:14
  Yeah. It's just.
• 23:17
  Yeah, yeah. So let me ask you this and then
• 23:20
  we'll just see or sort of see where the conversation goes
• 23:22
  after this. Did you ever think when you
• 23:24
  started this podcast five years ago that you would have your
• 23:28
  name on the front of a book and you publish a book with me five
• 23:32
  years later? No, I'm hold on just a second.
• 23:34
  Let me grab one of these. As you as you know, James, I'm a
• 23:43
  I'm a big time reader, but I don't think I ever thought I
• 23:48
  would write a book. I don't like writing, but I
• 23:54
  think I said something last night at the church that, like,
• 23:57
  you know, if you give James an idea, he'll execute it.
• 24:00
  And so we tossed around this thing.
• 24:02
  And why don't we talk about the book just for a second?
• 24:05
  Yeah. I don't think we ever have done
• 24:06
  an episode. We have a book.
• 24:08
  You've advertised the book. Talk about.
• 24:09
  We've never talked about what's in the book.
• 24:11
  Yeah, and this was sort of a brainchild that that we threw
• 24:17
  out there, and then we did an episode on it.
• 24:20
  But the book is not the exhaustive work on spiritual
• 24:24
  abuse. It's it's not that.
• 24:25
  It's actually just a very small. AD when it come to 70. 78 pages
• 24:31
  treatment basically looking at what what someone goes through
• 24:39
  when they are leaving, maybe a spiritually abusive situation, a
• 24:45
  church, legalism, A legalistic environment, church, that kind
• 24:51
  of thing. And so we walk through these
• 24:52
  things and we do categorize them as stages, even though we say in
• 24:56
  the introduction that they are actually may not occur in these
• 25:00
  clean stage forms, but we just sort of walk through in the
• 25:05
  book. And so you you have the
• 25:07
  disillusionment had a James there spit it out
• 25:13
  disillusionment and then which leads to questioning, which can
• 25:17
  lead to all right, then you leave.
• 25:20
  But then after you leave, there will be a grieving time and
• 25:24
  then. Well, and even at that point
• 25:26
  when you say leaving, still the RFP fam is out there the page
• 25:30
  and what a great resource that is.
• 25:32
  But even this week there were several people that said, my
• 25:36
  eyes have finally been open. I'm leaving, I've resigned, I've
• 25:39
  pulled my kids from the school. What resources are out there to
• 25:43
  help me? Because I feel like I'm just so
• 25:44
  lonely right now because my whole spiritual life is just up
• 25:49
  in arms. And so this is this is part of
• 25:52
  this. So right when you leave, you
• 25:53
  don't know what you're, you're leaving a a family, a community
• 25:57
  of people that's you've poured your life into.
• 25:59
  They pour their life into you. And it's difficult.
• 26:02
  It's hard. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:04
  And that's why I think that it causes greeting.
• 26:06
  Yeah, it causes greeting. And so, so therefore in the
• 26:09
  grieving, you were also probably through all of it,
• 26:13
  disillusionment, questioning, leaving grieving, you're all
• 26:15
  you're, you're in the middle of that getting educated, you're
• 26:18
  learning, you're, you're looking, you're researching.
• 26:21
  So we have the education stage. And The thing is, is, is it's a
• 26:24
  natural human tendency. I think that whenever you you
• 26:28
  learn more about what is right and then learn that you have
• 26:32
  been either duped or and some instances flat out lied to about
• 26:38
  what is wrong, then that can breed anger.
• 26:42
  And so we have a section in there about anger and all of the
• 26:45
  things we don't just sit there and say, Hey, this is what you
• 26:48
  go through. Isn't it bad, isn't it?
• 26:51
  But what what the intention of the book that that you do a good
• 26:54
  job in here and and and you James is the one that formatted
• 26:59
  it and then put a lot of the scripture references in there to
• 27:03
  to many scripture references. I'm normally the type of person
• 27:05
  that leans into one and just focusing on one.
• 27:08
  And, and James loaded it up with quite a bit.
• 27:10
  But, and that is like we, we put gospel truths throughout this to
• 27:16
  say, whatever you're at, Hey, there's truth here.
• 27:19
  There's, there's, there's gospel understanding in each of these.
• 27:22
  And so from the anger we go to, all right, so are you supposed
• 27:24
  to stay there? And that was, that's the thing.
• 27:28
  It was never supposed to stay there, whether it was the RFP,
• 27:31
  whether it was any of this stuff, whether it's someone that
• 27:33
  actually went through physical abuse and they're they're
• 27:37
  they're hurting. You are never supposed to stay
• 27:41
  there. The intention is for you to
• 27:43
  heal, OK. And and the intention is for you
• 27:46
  to grow. OK.
• 27:48
  And so then you have the the Chapter 7 on the fork in the
• 27:51
  road in the healing or bitterness.
• 27:53
  And then there's a purpose in it.
• 27:55
  And what is the purpose? It's where we close up the book
• 27:58
  by talking about, yeah, what are you going to do?
• 28:00
  You going to keep that to yourself or you going to go help
• 28:02
  others? Yeah, that's the the beautiful
• 28:04
  part of that is you get to help other people and you get to see
• 28:07
  their eyes open and, and the freedom of the gospel in their
• 28:10
  life. And, and that's what we're we're
• 28:12
  built to be in relational communities with other people.
• 28:16
  And it's just a great thing to do that.
• 28:19
  So, yeah, I didn't plan to talk through the book like that, but
• 28:22
  I appreciate you doing it. If you haven't picked up the
• 28:24
  book, it's on Amazon, $10.00 for the paperback, $15 for the
• 28:27
  hardback. And we've got some opportunities
• 28:29
  here soon going to be able to get that resource out into more
• 28:32
  hands. And so excited about a grant
• 28:34
  that we just got to share that resource with a lot of people
• 28:38
  and churches. But to go back to your original
• 28:40
  question, I think I was going to read, write a book.
• 28:44
  I don't know. I still don't know.
• 28:47
  This is, we have this, this is here.
• 28:49
  But I struggle with it because I have about four or five other
• 28:52
  book ideas that are in my mind, but I just can't bring myself to
• 28:56
  writing. I'm not a writer and so writing
• 28:58
  it. So I don't know if I'll ever do
• 29:00
  another one. May not, but there are ideas
• 29:03
  there. Well, the podcast sort of
• 29:06
  started with you wanting to write a book about the IFB.
• 29:08
  Right, exactly. And that's where a lot of the
• 29:10
  historical research of the movement came.
• 29:12
  I actually did write 3 chapters to it.
• 29:15
  It exists on my computer in a file way.
• 29:17
  Unreleased An unreleased book An unreleased book of John.
• 29:20
  Very deep, but. That's one of those the the
• 29:24
  Library of Spurgeon, the unreleased book of Spurgeon.
• 29:26
  They find his his computer back in his cave.
• 29:29
  I. Don't know that might be
• 29:30
  something to send to you, those no, those first chapters and
• 29:35
  make it a mini book of maybe just a a historical overview of
• 29:39
  Yeah, I don't know. You heard it first.
• 29:41
  We're talking out thinking out loud.
• 29:43
  But. But I tell you, one idea that I
• 29:46
  got swimming around in my head is something on contentment.
• 29:51
  Yeah. I did a series at our church
• 29:54
  last year. No.
• 29:58
  This year. Beginning the 1st January of
• 30:01
  this year. And it was born out of reading a
• 30:05
  Puritan work by a guy named Thomas Watson on the art of
• 30:07
  divine contentment. And I've read the book twice and
• 30:11
  it just blew me away. And I just thought, man, this is
• 30:15
  such a big deal. And I don't know, I just can't
• 30:19
  get away. I keeps coming back like I
• 30:21
  should, I should turn that into something.
• 30:23
  So I don't know, maybe, maybe never will happen, who knows?
• 30:27
  Never know. But you never know what you're
• 30:30
  here here on the Fort Freedom Podcast.
• 30:34
  Hey, you let me know. Hold on, hold on.
• 30:35
  If anybody's listening and they would be interested, there you
• 30:38
  go. In a short like 30 page booklet
• 30:44
  form of like a historical overview of the IFP.
• 30:49
  Let James know. That's right.
• 30:50
  And if James gets enough requests, maybe we can see if we
• 30:52
  can put some together. Absolutely.
• 30:54
  You can reach out to me on Messenger, my number, my phone
• 30:57
  number's out there in like 400 places because I get 20 spam
• 31:01
  calls a day. He can do that.
• 31:04
  Let me know if you want this to happen and we'll see what we can
• 31:07
  do. John, we started up a little
• 31:10
  cigar company a year ago. We've had what you did.
• 31:13
  I did me and Brett did. And Brett is, he's at, like I
• 31:17
  said earlier, he's at convention right now.
• 31:19
  He's I will be with us. I miss him.
• 31:21
  And Brett, if you're listening, we love you and we wish you were
• 31:23
  on the podcast right now. We love Emily more.
• 31:26
  Yeah, Emily's great. So have the idea.
• 31:30
  I've had the idea I'd love. I've always wanted my own cigar
• 31:33
  for years. And then the idea came to the
• 31:37
  opportunity, I should say, came to launch our own company and be
• 31:41
  under the 1689 cigar Company brand.
• 31:44
  We've sold, I don't know, probably 4 or 500 cigars in a
• 31:49
  year for a startup that's really good.
• 31:51
  Hoping to expand out to some lounges next year, Build a
• 31:55
  couple more things out. John, did you think that's your
• 31:59
  little cat over here? Is that?
• 32:03
  Going to sound like it's freaking it just.
• 32:05
  That is, I. Don't know if you hear that at
• 32:07
  all. There's a big lounge thing.
• 32:08
  I'm sorry, hear that. I apologize.
• 32:10
  It's been a while since I've done the podcast.
• 32:14
  Did you think that'd be a cigar company come out of of a podcast
• 32:16
  that started five years? That was a that is clear cut.
• 32:20
  Most definitely. No, I did not ever think that
• 32:23
  that would happen, but I'm glad it did.
• 32:26
  Yeah, 'cause they're good cigars.
• 32:28
  They are. They are.
• 32:29
  I mean, I, I'm a little bit of a, I'm not like an aficionado
• 32:33
  because like you, you know, I, I can't detect certain things, but
• 32:36
  I am a little bit of a snob on what I like.
• 32:38
  Yeah, and I like them. They're good, man.
• 32:42
  And you know me, I don't like sweets.
• 32:43
  Yeah, but I like these sweets. He's starting to jump in on the
• 32:47
  sweet board, which is a great thing for.
• 32:49
  Me because the sweet elder is where?
• 32:50
  It's at oh, it's so good. It's our I say the sweet elder
• 32:54
  is my #1 seller when I go to events, but online, our deacon's
• 32:59
  delight, our dark Maduro suite is our number one seller.
• 33:02
  So it's it's interesting how that works out online versus in
• 33:05
  person. I'm the sweet elder guy, but one
• 33:11
  of the things that and me and Brett talked about it briefly a
• 33:13
  couple of weeks months ago on the podcast, we had a a reviewer
• 33:17
  that said you want spiritual health, but you're promoting
• 33:23
  cigars. That's that's how help yourself
• 33:26
  spiritually, but kill yourself physically.
• 33:28
  Well, what's your thoughts behind that?
• 33:30
  You've done some research on cigars and tobacco.
• 33:34
  OK, share your thoughts. All right, so.
• 33:36
  Oh, that's so we did. Wasn't expecting to go here on
• 33:39
  the. Yeah, but let's do it.
• 33:41
  Did we do? We did an episode, I know, way
• 33:44
  back in the day on tattoos, right?
• 33:46
  Yeah, Yeah. Did we ever do one on smoking?
• 33:48
  No, we never did one on smoking and the freedom of and I've been
• 33:53
  smoking cigars since I was 18, so I've.
• 33:54
  Just yeah, he totally, like, duped me on that.
• 33:56
  Like, I didn't know for years. And we were supposed to be best
• 33:58
  friends. So years ago, this is way before
• 34:02
  the podcast, I had done a series at our church and this is what I
• 34:06
  did. I titled it Taboo.
• 34:09
  Is that a sin? And I covered several topics
• 34:13
  that we've always sort of been taught in church, this is
• 34:16
  sinful, this is wrong, don't do it.
• 34:18
  And I said, let's go to the Bible and actually see what the
• 34:21
  Bible says about that and see if it's a sin.
• 34:23
  And I think in that series with our church, I covered the
• 34:26
  subject of tattoos, which we ended up doing an episode on.
• 34:30
  And then I covered the subject of gambling.
• 34:33
  And then I covered the subject of smoking in that in that
• 34:39
  episode or in that series. And there was one more, but I
• 34:43
  can't remember. Alcohol.
• 34:45
  Yeah, drinking alcohol. Smoking and drinking.
• 34:47
  Yes. No, Yeah, that's right.
• 34:48
  Because I actually did so much research.
• 34:50
  I did 2. I did a Part 1 and Part 2 on
• 34:52
  alcohol and drinking. And then I did one-on-one whole
• 34:56
  lesson on gambling. And then I did a lesson where I
• 35:00
  put together tattoos and smoking together.
• 35:03
  Yeah. And and even then, I, I that
• 35:07
  wasn't even close to smoking a pipe or or cigars.
• 35:11
  So first of all, let's let's just cover that.
• 35:15
  Is smoking prohibited in Scripture?
• 35:20
  And the answer is no. It find me a verse that has
• 35:27
  anything to do with smoking. It doesn't exist.
• 35:30
  It's not there. All right, So then what is
• 35:33
  normally the argument that gets made?
• 35:35
  Well, they didn't have the capabilities or they didn't have
• 35:38
  the one. They smoked back in the night.
• 35:39
  Oh yeah, they, they, they found ways to smoke things.
• 35:42
  Well, they'll get lung after. OK, so cancer.
• 35:44
  So the no argument normally comes to, I think it's First
• 35:47
  Corinthians 69, the file in the temple, the filing, yeah, your
• 35:51
  body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
• 35:54
  Your body's a temple of God. As I'm sitting here looking at M
• 35:56
  and Ms. on my desk. Yeah.
• 35:58
  And and you're, you're supposed to be, you're defiling the
• 36:01
  temple if you're doing that. It's unhealthy.
• 36:03
  Yeah. OK, well man, you're going to
• 36:06
  find yourself in a 5 hour argument that's never going to
• 36:08
  get resolved If you start talking about like, name me one
• 36:11
  person who's like perfectly in physical health that ever made
• 36:16
  the argument of First Corinthians 619 and get smoking.
• 36:20
  I've never seen one we So then you have to go to this.
• 36:24
  What's the aspect of risk? Right, So we all take into
• 36:29
  things. I mean, when you look at the way
• 36:30
  food is made today, you about can't even survive eating food
• 36:35
  without taking in something into your body unless you're just
• 36:39
  have tons of money and you can afford to live completely
• 36:42
  healthy. I I just don't know.
• 36:43
  But but then you have to take into effect like, OK, what is
• 36:48
  the actual? How much risk am I doing to my
• 36:51
  health? Now, Is it a biblical principle?
• 36:53
  And we're not going to get into all the the nitty gritty this
• 36:56
  because it's a spur of the moment sort of topic.
• 36:58
  But is it a biblical principle that we should be good stewards
• 37:00
  of our body? Absolutely.
• 37:02
  OK, We both agree with that. Me and James here, You're not
• 37:04
  getting any argument from us. We agree with that.
• 37:07
  But what does he, what does God care about more than that?
• 37:10
  I was actually said this in the message spiritual.
• 37:12
  He cares more about your heart. All right, But that doesn't mean
• 37:15
  he only cares for my heart and I can bless God.
• 37:17
  I can get as fat as I can. Like all Tony Hudson talks about
• 37:21
  name dropping, That's right. All right.
• 37:23
  But your physical health is important as well.
• 37:26
  But God is more concerned this. But let's go back.
• 37:29
  Physical health is important. So then you have to go back and
• 37:32
  look and say, all right, well, what's the am I taking
• 37:35
  unreasonable risk? And that's what people say.
• 37:37
  Well, you're just putting cancer in your body.
• 37:39
  All right, well, there's nothing you need to do your research on
• 37:42
  it. All right, first of all, there
• 37:45
  is a vast difference between smoking cigarettes and smoking
• 37:50
  cigars and then smoking out of a pipe, you know, classic pipe
• 37:56
  tobacco from a pipe. And there's a video I watched on
• 38:00
  YouTube when I was doing the research before I started to see
• 38:03
  what the the health risks were. And there was a dentist who
• 38:07
  shared a study of some that was done of the research of this and
• 38:13
  it was saying that a pack, they, they in the study, they looked
• 38:18
  at the overall health effect of smoking a pack of cigarettes a
• 38:24
  day. I think it was a pack of maybe
• 38:26
  when the pack of cigarettes, four or five cigarettes a day,
• 38:30
  one cigar a day. And they, or is it 2 cigars?
• 38:35
  Anyways, it was, it was cigarettes, cigar, and then like
• 38:38
  3 bowls in your pipe bowls like you feel the little thing up
• 38:43
  with tobacco, three bowls a day. And what they found was, is that
• 38:48
  the health effect of those cigarettes being smoked was like
• 38:53
  way up here. So you're talking like in the
• 38:56
  80s or 90% area of not good for you.
• 39:01
  A cigar was like 4% and three bowls and a tobacco of tobacco
• 39:07
  in a pipe was like 2%. In other words, they are so
• 39:12
  vastly different. Yeah, well, why is that?
• 39:15
  Well, there's chemicals and toxins.
• 39:17
  There's all kinds of stuff in a cigarette.
• 39:19
  Cigarette that the the tobacco, long leaf tobacco and that's the
• 39:22
  difference is a long leaf, high grade, premium grade tobacco
• 39:26
  product that's long leaf. There's no chemicals in it.
• 39:28
  It's just taken off the stem and rolled up and you just enjoy it.
• 39:33
  OK. Yeah, exactly.
• 39:35
  And so you have the cigar, which is that, and then you have the
• 39:38
  pipe, which even is even a more pure form of tobacco being put
• 39:41
  in there, and you're you're bringing it through the pipe.
• 39:44
  All right. So then the other thing is like,
• 39:45
  well, it causes cancer. It causes cancer, OK?
• 39:48
  Yeah, it's causes lung cancer. Right, Right.
• 39:50
  All right. Why is that such a misnomer?
• 39:52
  COPD in lung cancer, Yeah. Why is that a big misnomer with
• 39:55
  cigar smoking and pipe smoking? You tell me.
• 39:58
  OK, because you don't inhale it? Oh, yeah.
• 40:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you don't inhale it.
• 40:02
  You bring it to your mind. There is zero, there is 0 risk
• 40:06
  of lung cancer with smoking a cigar and smoking a pipe because
• 40:10
  you don't inhale it. Yeah, you it's it's really, if
• 40:14
  you wanted to be technical, you're not actually smoking,
• 40:17
  you're puffing. Yeah, right.
• 40:19
  But you inhale with cigarettes. OK, so the health risk goes back
• 40:24
  down though. Dentist actually said if there
• 40:26
  is any cancer risk at all, and it's very, very minimal, he said
• 40:30
  the cancer risk is called, it would be a tongue cancer, not
• 40:34
  even a mouth cancer or something like that or a lip cancer.
• 40:36
  It's actually in a tongue cancer.
• 40:38
  And the only thing that they can attribute that to the it's a
• 40:41
  theory. They don't even know why.
• 40:43
  But the best thing they can attribute that to would be
• 40:45
  because of the heat that is on their tongue.
• 40:47
  Because what they've actually found is that there are certain
• 40:49
  tribe, certain areas of villages in the in Chile where they drink
• 40:55
  this drink that is insanely hot. And they've had, you know, a
• 40:59
  higher risk of tongue cancer in there.
• 41:00
  And they think that maybe it's because of the heat on their
• 41:02
  tongue, but they don't know that's what they think.
• 41:06
  So, so we've looked at the risk is extremely low.
• 41:11
  OK. It's not near what everybody
• 41:12
  thinks. So then you're just saying then
• 41:15
  why do it? Why do it?
• 41:16
  Why do it? It's enjoyable.
• 41:19
  It's enjoyable. I'm a firm believer in having
• 41:21
  hobbies and hobbies that are beneficial and allowing you to
• 41:25
  have some type of rest in that hobby.
• 41:28
  Some guys, I love golf. I just don't do it enough.
• 41:30
  And so but, but when me, my brothers, we go out and we golf,
• 41:33
  we hang out. It's a four hour hobby where I'm
• 41:35
  going to go out and I'm going to have a good time with my
• 41:37
  brothers. We're going to have some good
• 41:39
  bonding. It's going to be a great time.
• 41:41
  And I felt guilty for a little while when, you know, I would go
• 41:45
  outside and I I'd smoke and we'd hang out in the building or
• 41:47
  whatever and I would tell, you know, you know, I feel like I'm
• 41:51
  neglecting the kids come out there with me.
• 41:54
  We haven't got a pool table out there.
• 41:55
  I work on my kids bikes. We, we do stuff as a family,
• 41:58
  like we're hanging out together. I said, but I just feel like
• 42:01
  sometimes I'm neglecting some certain things 'cause it's an
• 42:04
  hour of my time. And she said, James, you know
• 42:06
  how high paced you are, you know how how strong you are at times.
• 42:10
  That's one hour where you're devoted to slow down and you
• 42:14
  can't do it cuz you're wanting to finish it.
• 42:15
  You spend the money to have it. And so she said you are on
• 42:19
  purpose slowing down. I use it when I before I preach
• 42:22
  my sermon on the weekend, I'll use it as a time meditation as
• 42:26
  I'm going through my sermon and doing final preparation, it's
• 42:30
  slowing everything down and just giving me time to to focus and
• 42:34
  rest and relax. And so meditate, meditate.
• 42:36
  There's a time of benefit that comes with that.
• 42:38
  Yeah. So.
• 42:40
  Here's another objection. Isn't that stuff addictive?
• 42:44
  OK, let's talk about that. Just is it alright if we talk
• 42:46
  about how? How long?
• 42:48
  OK. We'll go as long as you want, I
• 42:49
  mean, alright, think we can turn this off whenever?
• 42:51
  First of all, first of all, I think that I have a little bit
• 42:54
  of a differing view on things being necessarily addictive.
• 42:58
  Like I, I, I do disagree with the black label warning that
• 43:03
  nicotine is an addictive chemical.
• 43:05
  I, I don't think that a certain thing I'm not, I'm going to get,
• 43:10
  I'm going to get tons of heat about this, but I think the
• 43:13
  addictive aspect I believe is actually within your heart.
• 43:18
  OK, it comes over. So is it addictive?
• 43:21
  Yes. How many other things in our
• 43:22
  life when we can can become addictive?
• 43:25
  Tons of things. So here's here's sort of the
• 43:27
  line that that I set up for myself.
• 43:30
  I would give you a push back on that right before you say this
• 43:32
  line. I would say the chemical
• 43:34
  derivative of nicotine they pull out of tobacco is addictive, but
• 43:40
  tobacco itself is not. Because when they pull that
• 43:42
  chemical out, they're enhancing that chemical that they put back
• 43:46
  into the cigarettes that cause it to be so addictive to where
• 43:49
  you can't live without it because your body is so
• 43:52
  accustomed. But this where I would, that's
• 43:54
  where I'd say that there's a little bit of a, an intertwining
• 43:58
  of two things, right? All right.
• 44:00
  For instance, we could we could do this with coffee, correct?
• 44:03
  That's where I was going. To go, all right, so caffeine,
• 44:05
  yeah. All right.
• 44:06
  There's an element where your body can get used to having a
• 44:13
  certain thing, right? Because if you were used to
• 44:15
  having caffeine, whether it's in your coffee, you're a tea
• 44:19
  drinker or a soda drinker, go without it for for a day or two,
• 44:24
  you start to get what? Headaches, that kind of thing.
• 44:26
  And so therefore, everybody says, well, yeah, the things are
• 44:28
  addictive, all right. But there's a there's a
• 44:30
  difference. Your body is just like your
• 44:33
  mental faculties. It is something that that adapts
• 44:37
  to habits. And so when your body is
• 44:40
  adapting to a habitual thing that it's used to getting,
• 44:44
  whether that's caffeine, whether it's a narcotic, whether it's
• 44:47
  nicotine, when you stop that or you're doing it so much, then
• 44:54
  yeah, you're going to have what they call withdrawal symptoms.
• 44:57
  But here's the thing you get to that point where you're doing
• 45:01
  anything, whether it's a chemical or that kind of thing,
• 45:04
  because you have given into a desire to want it that much.
• 45:09
  OK, So therefore, I would say that the, the thing that I'm
• 45:15
  careful about, and of course there's, there's other things
• 45:18
  that if you, if you're, they can have much more damaging effects
• 45:21
  of like I could smoke, you know, 3 or 4 cigars in a day.
• 45:26
  I'm not going to get like to where I'm, I'm treating people
• 45:29
  wrongly, but I could drink, you know, a lot of alcohol and it
• 45:33
  does affect, I get the new one. There's nuance in a lot of this.
• 45:36
  I understand that. But what I'm getting to is this
• 45:40
  is that I recognize that when I started doing this, this is what
• 45:45
  I needed to guard and I needed to guard my heart.
• 45:48
  And that is this. I enjoy after studying, after a
• 45:56
  week of ministry, going out on the porch, taking a cigar and
• 46:01
  like you said, sort of slowing down, having a relaxed time.
• 46:05
  But what I've got to guard my heart is that I need that.
• 46:11
  If I get to the point where I must have that or I need that
• 46:15
  even, even even my heart is saying this, I need the cigar to
• 46:19
  settle down and relax. If I get to that point, yes,
• 46:22
  then it has become a problem. But if I get, if I, if I forget
• 46:27
  the cigar, if I do that with anything, it's a problem.
• 46:30
  For instance, life is life. And one of the ways that I, I
• 46:33
  judge this is if, if life is just going the way it is and I'm
• 46:38
  sitting there thinking like I would like a cigar right now,
• 46:41
  I'm going to make a cigar happen no matter what.
• 46:44
  And then I'm getting upset with things happening, my kids doing
• 46:47
  something, my wife requesting something that's getting in the
• 46:49
  way of what I was wanting. And I'm starting to get mad.
• 46:52
  That's a problem on my part. I have set that as way too far
• 46:55
  of an element. But if I'm like, OK, if I have
• 46:58
  the opportunity, if I do this, I go and enjoy it.
• 47:00
  That's where it's in the right balanced category.
• 47:04
  And so that's just something that I keep on guard with.
• 47:06
  So do I think that, oh, it's addictive?
• 47:10
  It's addictive. How many things in our life can
• 47:15
  become addictive? Yeah.
• 47:16
  I mean, you're talking about today the the food that we put
• 47:19
  in our bodies are so vast and different than when we were kids
• 47:22
  because they have added so many artificial flavorings to make
• 47:25
  them more appealing for people to continue eating.
• 47:29
  Because I wanted to be addictive.
• 47:31
  So many people that come up with the objection, like, I wouldn't
• 47:33
  do that because it's addictive. All right?
• 47:35
  You go without your coffee for a week.
• 47:37
  Yeah. Just find out if you're
• 47:39
  addicted. To it.
• 47:39
  Oh, I would. I would say yes.
• 47:40
  I've got 2 coffee makers in my office and I've got a coffee
• 47:43
  maker at my house. There's a coffee Baker
• 47:45
  downstairs in the church. Yes I would.
• 47:48
  I would. Say like what?
• 47:49
  I guess what I'm getting at is that that's not a, it's not an
• 47:54
  argument, that's not a, a defense against.
• 47:57
  Like, listen, if your conscience is to the point where it's like,
• 48:00
  you don't want that, we're we are not.
• 48:02
  Saying no you. Should be smoking cigars just as
• 48:06
  way we are. We're what we're saying is there
• 48:08
  is nothing in Scripture that says we are in sin because we
• 48:11
  pick up a cigar and smoke it. And there's a reason why our
• 48:13
  podcast is the For Freedom podcast 'cause it's for Freedom
• 48:16
  Crisis set us free individually to determine what we can do
• 48:22
  within the bounds of scripture to live our life in in a way
• 48:27
  that glorifies God. And you may say, XYZ, if I eat
• 48:33
  pizza with pepperoni on it, I feel like I'll be breaking God's
• 48:37
  law. That's not for me to impose that
• 48:40
  same standard of of what you feel like that that that is a
• 48:44
  sin on to me because I may not think that's a sin, but you may
• 48:48
  have that hard line of a stance and by all means, whatever your
• 48:52
  conscience is telling you, stay clear of that.
• 48:54
  So yeah, I think that's good. Well, John, I probably just
• 49:00
  anchored a lot of your listeners.
• 49:02
  It happens. We may not make it to 100. 1000
• 49:04
  may not make it to $100,000 after.
• 49:06
  That yeah. So any thoughts, any questions,
• 49:09
  any final things before we close it down or or what else we got
• 49:14
  it only only to do. That's all the questions.
• 49:15
  That's what I had wrote. Well, I've enjoyed the I've
• 49:19
  enjoyed the series that you guys were doing on the Fundamentalism
• 49:26
  Footsteps. Yeah, I thought that was a good
• 49:29
  series. Some of the interviews that you
• 49:31
  got were pretty cool. And you just did the episode.
• 49:37
  Was it on Paul Chapel was the last one.
• 49:38
  And you you interviewed Jake. Yeah.
• 49:40
  And that was that was a cool story.
• 49:42
  You know Jake. Pretty.
• 49:43
  I know Jake. We went to college with Jake.
• 49:45
  You're following pretty good right now.
• 49:46
  Yeah, yeah, we've lot of memories, a lot of memories with
• 49:50
  Jake. You want to share some of those
• 49:51
  memories? We'd be putting explicit on the
• 49:55
  sorry, you know, but we we had a we've had some good times, lots
• 50:00
  of laughs with the with old Jake.
• 50:03
  And so, yeah. And it's, you know, enjoy Brett
• 50:08
  and his addition to it and his perspective and interested to
• 50:11
  see where you guys take it and where you guys do next and what
• 50:16
  you decide. So absolutely you do love.
• 50:19
  It Well great. Well, I'm excited for the future
• 50:22
  and excited about what Lord is doing.
• 50:25
  Never did I think this would be a thing and we would be going
• 50:27
  through this and all these ventures would have come out of
• 50:31
  it. But I'm thankful that you know,
• 50:33
  we just served Lord and see what happens and so well until next
• 50:37
  time to God be the glory great things he has done.
• 50:40
  A new name found that good grace found that healing, and the
• 50:46
  tears fell down my face when I found my beginning that has no
• 50:50
  ending. I found that second chance,
• 50:51
  found my best friend, found my forgiveness, found my happiness.
• 50:54
  I've been singing ever since I found my freedom.
• 51:11
  Thanks for listening to the Four Freedom Podcast.
• 51:14
  If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking,
• 51:18
  subscribing, or sharing our podcast or whichever podcast
• 51:21
  platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for
• 51:25
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