Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 581: Previewing the 2026-27 IU basketball season with Jerod Morris

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POTB 581: Previewing the 2026-27 IU basketball season with Jerod Morris · Podcast on the Brink

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's Thursday, October 29th.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Pleased to be joined.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: By someone that Anyone that's listened to this show for
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a long time knows very well Jared Morris, one of my,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: actually my former co-host of this show is back with us.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: He joined us, I think, last for our 500th episode
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of the show. This is episode 581, so it's been
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a while since Jared has been on. Before I welcome
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: him back to the show, I did want to take
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a quick moment to remind you, if you're watching over
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the channel. If
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you're listening over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, take a minute,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: give us a rating, give us a five-star review. Really
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: appreciate the support there. It helps more people find the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: show when they look for IU basketball podcast in the,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in the search bar there. And I'm sure they also
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: find the assembly call, which you're also familiar with Jared.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: One of the hosts there has been for a long time.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned, former co-host of podcasts on the break,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: really someone that helped me tremendously as we, we took
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: this show over from the, gentlemen, uh, Greg and Matt
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: that were originally hosting it on the site and on,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: on the, you know, on, on the various platforms and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: really helped me figure out a lot of the ins
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and outs. So really appreciate you, all the help you've
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: given me along the way. And Jared, you know, I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: just texted you earlier this week. I've been thinking about
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: wanting to have you on. I thought this was the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: perfect time because the season's opening on Monday and you know,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: we hadn't talked in a while, so I wanted to
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: have you back on. So welcome back to the show.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: How are you doing? Absolutely, man. I'm doing great.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: In an alternate world, we could be talking about the
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: White Sox sweeping the World Series on this show.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe one day we will be again. Unfortunately, I fell
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a little short of that. I was actually glad in
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a weird way Milwaukee lost. Now they have two playoff losses.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: The White Sox, remember back in 2005, they lost one.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think any team has lost that few games
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: in the playoffs since then. You've got to have every
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: little kind of cling to every little thing when it's
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: been you know 21 years since we've had a world
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: series win but didn't win a playoff series this year
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: so we'll take that right that's right.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: That's right that was a historic run so this year
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: was a nice step in the right direction and we'll
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: see if they can build on it.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Next year so I don't want to start with too
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: loaded of a question but I'm actually going to start
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: with a little question where are you right now with
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: IU basketball I know you know we've both been in
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: kind of this content creation IU basketball sphere for a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: long time now um I've known you, I don't, you know,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: since the late, you know, before 2008, 2009, probably when
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we started contacting you. So it's been a long time.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: We've been through all these different eras of the program. And,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I was telling you before I hit record, uh,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: this kind of feels like some normalcy, at least in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: terms of who's actually in the head coaching chair. Uh,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: obviously we'll see about the results, but Darren DeVries seems
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: to have a pretty firm grip on how he wants
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to run this program. Um, We'll see, like I said,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: on the results. But I'm just kind of curious. You're
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: following this more from a fan perspective now. Where are
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: you at with this team? Where are you at with
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: this program as the season gets ready to tip off
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: on Monday?
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I feel good.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: I feel probably a little bit more detached from things, honestly,
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: than I have in a long time. We started the
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: show 15 years ago. And I think as a lot
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: of people do when you get into a content creation endeavor,
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: you kind of get into it and it's just kind
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: of fun and games at the beginning. You kind of
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: keep it casual, but then you start getting more of
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: an audience. You start taking it more seriously. You know,
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: you build communities. It starts even earning a little bit
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: of revenue and then you start taking it really seriously.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: And I can't speak for everybody, but I know for myself, it's,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: you start to kind of wonder like, where's the line
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: between me, the content creator running a community and putting
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: out content and me just like the fan that just
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: lives and dies with the games. And just kind of
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: wants to enjoy it.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: It was interesting.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: I went to a baseball game a couple years ago
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: with my family. It was here in Dallas. Indiana was
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: playing in some invitation or whatever. And I'm not a
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: huge Indiana baseball fan. But just went to the game.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: Didn't really know the team. Didn't really know much about it.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: I just knew that Cream of Crimson was playing. I
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: was there with my family. I think they got down
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: and then made a big comeback. And I was really
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: into it. And it was like this moment of, you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: you don't have to know every single detail about every
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: player and every game and have broken down everything to
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: still just enjoy being a fan. And so it was
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: a little bit of kind of an eye opening moment
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: because I think it coincided with pretty rough end to
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: the Mike Woodson era that I think for a lot
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: of people, it just wasn't fun. It wasn't enjoyable, you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: and there was just felt like there was a lot
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: of drama and like stuff outside of just basketball and Um,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: you know, and so that kind of combined with just
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: having two kids that have gotten older, getting a new job,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: it's just the circumstances have changed. And so I haven't
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: been able to pay quite as close of attention, but
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: I think in some ways that's probably been healthy because
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: it's allowed me to kind of reconnect with why I
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: wanted to do this stuff in the first place and
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: why I became a big Indiana basketball player in the
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: first or fan in the first place. So, you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: to answer your question, I don't know what my confidence
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: level is entering the season. We've had a lot of
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: seasons that have fallen short of expectations. And so I
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: don't really know what to expect from this team, but
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: I just kind of feel more at peace and more
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: just excited to start watching the games play without a
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: ton of like preconceived notions or they should do this
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: because of this. It's like, we've got these new players.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: I'm excited to see how they play. I feel like
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: we got a chance to have a pretty good team
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: from what I've seen in the exhibition seasons. And I
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: think it's a, it's a fan base that's ready to
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: have a good team. I think that is, you know,
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: paid their dues now over the last decade to have
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: a good team. And I think the seeds are there.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: You know, I would really like to see it succeed
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: with Darren DeVries. And I think obviously this is a
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: big season for him to show that he's got a
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: firm grasp on how that can happen. So I'm cautiously
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: optimistic about it. I guess that's how I would say it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you made that comment about going to the
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: IU baseball game, it kind of brought me to where
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I was with IU football the last couple of years,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: because obviously in college, my job and what I've done
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: with inside the hall was exclusively a basketball endeavor. I,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I watched IU football for a long time on Saturdays
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in the fall because it was something to do. And,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I, I remember all the times going back
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: in the fall football season, I was just like waiting
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: for basketball to get there because, you know, I wanted
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, that was my true
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: passion was being able to write about basketball, talk about basketball. But,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: As someone who casually watched the football program, the last
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: couple of years were really exciting. And you mentioned going
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to the baseball game, not knowing everybody. I was kind
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of like that with the football team because I didn't
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: know all these players. I know them now because we've
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: started the content with Inside the Hall. But when you've
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: grown up following Indiana sports and the program was where
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: it was for so long, and then you watch the games,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: but then they start winning, it kind of draws people
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: back in. And I think that's where we're at with
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Indiana basketball right now. People use the term sleeping giant,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: but I really think from the standpoint of people have
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: just been through so much with this program following it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And when it feels hard to be a fan sometimes,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, that's the thing
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I hear from different fans. And I think people are
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: just ready for it not to feel that way anymore.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think people are asking for go to the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: final four. I think they just want to be a competitive,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you know, top half of the Big Ten team. Give
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: yourself a chance to make the tournament and get, you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you know, get to the second weekend again, get to
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: an elite eight, get to a final four one day.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that's too much to ask. And
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the reason I say all that is, you know, I
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: think every year around this time, it's easy to talk
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: yourself into, Hey, like last year it was like, Oh,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: DeVries is in, he's got this new system, these new players. Uh,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: we think it's going to work. And then it didn't
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: work obviously for different reasons this year. I think there
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: are reasons to feel more optimistic that are, um, that
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: we've gotten some evidence behind now that we've seen the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: three exhibition games. We've seen the upgrade in talent. We
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: clearly saw last year what the deficiencies were. I think
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you could see that they did a lot of things
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that you could say, Hey, you know, if you did
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that with more talent, better players, that could work. But
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: there was too many moments where it didn't work. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I just kind of, again, I don't know that I
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: have a question. I'm just kind of curious on your
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: thoughts on, on what I'm saying here, but I just
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: feel like this season going into it. And again, I,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: not making any predictions on what's going to happen. We
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: have no idea what's going to happen. But I feel
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like at least there's a better plan for success. And
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: you can at least envision things being more successful than
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you would have last year.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: No question about it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think part of the issue both last
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: year with DeVries' first team, even going back to Mike
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Woodson's teams, and honestly even going back to some of
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Archie's teams, it felt like those teams were designed to
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: do one thing really well. And when they could do
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: that one thing really well, they would have a chance
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: to win. And a lot of times, you know, you
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: would kind of know early in the game or you
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: could even look at the matchup. And that doesn't mean
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: that there weren't surprises here and there, but by and large,
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: it was like, we've got this path to victory and
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: if we can take it, it's there. But if we
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: have to deviate from that, there's not a whole lot
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: of other options. And that can be fun, you know,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: when the path works and you win, but it just,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: you don't have a lot of outs, you know? And
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: I think that can lead to a bit of a
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: frustrating fan experience. Where you just feel like that, you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: I look around, I see these other teams that can
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: kind of do multiple things and and just seem more versatile.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: And why can't we have that time will tell, but
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: I think there are early returns on this roster in
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: what we've seen and just kind of what you can
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: project from some of these guys who have track records,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: at least at this level. I mean, you know, depending
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: on what you think of the ACC, I suppose, but
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, a lot of those guys are
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: still played big time college basketball. It feels like we're
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: going to have multiple paths to victory. You know, if
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: a game calls for pounding it inside, we're going to
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: be able to do that and dominate people inside, obviously
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: with exceptions. But, you know, if we need to shoot,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: it projects like we're going to have some guys who
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: can shoot. If, you know, we need to have a team,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: you know, if we need to be driving, looks like
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: we can do that. If we get in foul trouble,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: it looks like we may have some death. You know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: and all this stuff is theoretical in the offseason, but
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: I think this is probably the most credible case that
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: you could make in a preseason for having a team
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: that's going to be versatile, and have multiple ways to win,
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: which is so important in the slog of the Big Ten.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: And then once you get into tournament play, I mean,
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: probably since... I don't know. I mean, I'd have to
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: really go back far. I mean, honestly, the team that
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: comes to mind is the 2016 team that went to
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: the Sweet 16. And that's obviously high praise, given that
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: that's the best team we've seen since then. But even
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: the other rosters... you know, I mean, obviously the, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: the year with trace and we were a four seed,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: that team was pretty good, but that team still felt
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: like it had about one and a half, you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: like things that it could count on. You knew you
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: could count on trace. And when Jalen Huchefino was playing awesome,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: you could count on that, you know? So it just,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: we'll see how it goes, but it, I, you can,
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: I think more easily paint the picture looking ahead to
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: the season for a team that's going to be able
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: to win in multiple ways. Um, and that's just going
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: to make the season more enjoyable because you're not just
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: going to be sitting there feeling like, Oh man, if
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: plan a is not working, we're basically toast unless just
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: an individual player plays out of his mind. And that's
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: just not a formula that you want to be counting on.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: So we'll see, you know, and I, and I think
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: if so, then there's going to be a lot of
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: reason to have faith in what, you know, DeVries paired
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: with the GM and in Indiana's NIL infrastructure could be
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: able to do moving forward. Cause it was a little
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: bit of proof of concept last year, kind of, but
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: then it really kind of fell apart to the point
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: where you're like, well, you know, let's see it for real,
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: Coach DeVries.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think last season in some ways they
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: overachieved relative to the talent that they had when you
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: actually look at some of the players that they were
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: playing as much as they did. You know, when you
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: kind of look at what they had out there on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a given night, I mean, Connor Enright was, you know,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I thought he did a great job for what he
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: was asked to do, but on a good, solid NCAA
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: tournament team, he's not playing 35 minutes a game. Tucker
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: DeVries never looked healthy to me. Lamar Wilkerson was the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: one guy kind of, pointing to your example it was
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: almost like as Lamar Wilkerson went the team went and
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I think the thing that makes this team a little
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: bit more well a lot more intriguing in my mind
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: at least is you have several of those guys and
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: we've and the guy that has really caught everyone's eye
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: through the first exhibition games has been Bryce Lindsey he's
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: coming off the bench you know Marcus Burton was the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: guy that came in with all the accolades and rightfully
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: so the numbers he put up in the ACC at
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Notre Dame were spectacular he's an Indiana kid so he's
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: gonna you know get the headlines but He had foul
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: trouble the first two exhibition games, and then last game
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: he comes out and dislocates his finger in the first
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: minute and a half and never really is himself the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: rest of the game. But you got Bryce Lindsey to
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: come in off the bench, and he's not a guy
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: coming up from a lower league. He's a guy that made,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I think, six three-pointers in an NCAA tournament game last
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: year for Villanova, so you know he's done it on
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a stage. And I think there's examples of those guys
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: up and down the roster that you look at and say,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you know, over the course of a season, you think
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: can at least be a solid middle-of-the-pack to upper-tier Big
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Ten team. I want to get your thoughts on this.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: On the exhibition games, I went to two of them.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I went to the Hinkle Fieldhouse, which, by the way,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: my first time ever going to Hinkle Fieldhouse. I don't
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: know how I've made it being born in Indiana, following
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: basketball as long as I can to this age and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: never being there, but it was an awesome experience getting
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to go there. They had a great crowd on hand.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: It felt like a regular season game. Of course, there
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: was no stakes in terms of who won and lost,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: but both teams I felt like competed for the most
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: part like it was a regular season game. But watching
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that up close and then I was courtside for the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Western Kentucky game the other day, the thing that really
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: stood out to me that I haven't really seen with
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: an Indiana basketball team in a while, and I know
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: people say, well, we just had Umar Balo a couple
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: years ago, but the length around the rim that teams
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: are going to have to deal with, with Sam Alexis,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Samadi Ghatoglu, and Aiden Shirell. It just felt like watching,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and again, Butler and Western Kentucky aren't quite as talented, obviously,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: as Indiana, but it felt like any time those teams
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: got into the lane and got to the rim, there
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: was two or three guys there with long arms challenging
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the shot. It looks like it's going to be hard
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to score on Indiana in the paint. We'll see if
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: it actually holds up in Big Ten play, but I
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: think that's one of my biggest reasons for optimism is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: just how big and athletic, and how good of a
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: rebounding team this team has potential to be.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: And I think this is part of why a lot
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: of fans who have a bit of a weathered opinion
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: and feeling of the program are finding their way to
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: optimism this offseason. Because one thing that we really haven't
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: seen of late, certainly in the last two coaching regimes,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I would say, is coaches who seem like they internalized
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: the lessons from one year and then recruited differently to
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: fix them the next year. It kind of felt like
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: We just kept stubbornly trying to play the same way
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: or just kind of recruiting whoever fell into our laps,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: but it never quite felt like there was a coherent
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: plan to address the things that we were all frustrated by.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Last year, we were all frustrated by not being able
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: to rebound, not being able to protect the rim, not
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: really being able to score very well inside, and just
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: not having the size and length on the perimeter to
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: really be able to compete with better teams. And I mean,
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: and Darren DeVries has even spoken about this, you know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: words and actions. It looks like they've gone and addressed
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: those things. You know, like we're going to be able
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: to rebound this year. You know, we're going to be
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: able to defend inside this year. You know, they've got
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: obviously still some shooting, but also some guys who can drive.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: And more than that, it doesn't feel like a roster
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: that was slapped together to just get one season to
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: save the coach's job. It's a roster that's got some
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: potential to grow together with guys who have multiple years
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: of eligibility and a group of young guys that I
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: think it's fair to be excited about. I don't know
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: if any of these guys are going to come in
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: and just, you know, be incredible as freshmen, but, you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: a guy like Trevor Manhurts looks like he may get
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: in the rotation. You know, other guys look like they
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: could be serviceable by February and March and be building blocks.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: For the future.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: So, you know, that to me, I mean, I really
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: kind of expected to be honestly a little bit more
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: pessimistic going into the season because it's just been year
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: after year after year after year. And at some point
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: you just kind of get even the most optimistic fans
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: are going to be like, well, just prove it. Like,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: let me just see it again. Let me remember what
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: this feels like. But I really do feel like the
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: fact that they went out and addressed this stuff and
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: put together a roster that you can look at and
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: see these things got me leaning back in, you know? So,
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: you know, we'll see exactly how it goes. But I
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: think those are credible, reasonable things to get excited about
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: even before you see it. Because we do know what
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: good basketball rosters look like. We've seen them kicking our
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: butt in the Big Ten and in the NCAA tournament
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: for years now. And this just looks more like that,
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: you know? And so I'm taking some solace and some
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: comfort in that and then hoping that the actual results
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: will follow that up.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just happy to see you smiling talking about Indiana basketball.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I need to take a screen grab
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of this in case things go bad again. There was
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: a time in this season we were happy. I'm just kidding.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I think there's some good times ahead this season. I'm optimistic,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you know. people always ask me, where'd you pick the team?
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And last year, I think I did the preseason media
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: poll last year. I picked them 10th. They actually finished 10th.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I think that was the only team I got right.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So I tell people this year, I picked them seventh.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: So they're like only seventh. I'm like, well, there's 18
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: teams and 76 teams are going to make it. I
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: think if you're seventh in the big 10, you're going
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to probably be in pretty comfortably. I think most people
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: would take that at this point. I'm curious for your
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: thoughts just on, you know, the backcourt rotation and kind
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of what they've done from that standpoint. I mentioned Connor
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Enright earlier. I mentioned, obviously, the Tate and Connerway situation
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: last year did not go as people thought it would.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Having a guy like Marcus Burton, having a Bryce Lindsey,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: having a Darren Harris, who is obviously the most unproven
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: guy of the bunch, but you look at him, he
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: went to Duke for a reason. Duke doesn't recruit guys
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: that can't play, so we'll see what he can actually
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: bring to the table. But it seems to me that Overall,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: just the talent level, and I forgot Jaden Mustaf, who
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: right now is the best perimeter defender on the team,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: so he's not a guy to kind of brush aside either.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I just feel like overall, the collection of talent, where
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: they may not have that high-end player like Lamar Wilkerson,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: or even a guy like Tucker DeVries who can get
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: hot and make seven or eight threes in a game,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I think overall, the floor of some of these guys
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: is pretty reasonable, and the four of them together, plus
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: A Prince Alexander Moody who could get better as the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: season goes along. A Trevor Manhurts who they seem to
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: be really confident in. It just seems like last season
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: it was often look to the bench. Oh, there's no
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: answer over there. This year there may be a case
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of there could be an answer over there and there
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: can be guys that actually get better as the season
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: goes along and want to play. Last year just didn't
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: feel like there was enough of that on the team.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's honestly the other reason why I
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: drift back to 2016 a little bit when I think
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: about this team is you had a bunch of proven
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: guys that, you know, they'd already kind of shown.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: It was kind of easy to project, you know, what
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: they would do. But then you had potential guys who
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: could come along. Now, a guy like OG came along way,
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: way faster than anybody could have thought. But, you know,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: he and Juwan Morgan had a huge impact on that
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: team reaching its ceiling in January and February and March.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: And I think you could see that again here.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: you know, and the other thing to your point, it
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: feels like we've spent a lot of time with a
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: lot of teams recently where they had like a great
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: player that you were always counting on, but it kind of,
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: you know, went with that guy. I mean, if Lamar
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Wilkerson wasn't shooting at a superhuman level, this team just
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: had nothing on offense, you know, and, you know, a
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: few years ago, Trace Jackson Davis, if he wasn't just
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: dominating at a superhuman level, you know, there's not really
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: that much else here. You may not have that guy here, And,
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: you know, there could be some games against elite level
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: teams where like, damn, we need like one kind of
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: superstar player who can kind of take over. And so maybe,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: you know, the team reaches its ceiling, you know, because
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: of that. But I think it's going to have such
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: a higher floor because one night can be Bryce Lindsay.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: One night can be Marcus Burton. You know, there are
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: going to be at least two Big Ten games this
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: year where we're struggling in the first half and one
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: or two of the bigs are in foul trouble. And
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Sam Alexis comes in and scores 10 points on a
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: backup big. and saves the first half so that we
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: can go win the game in the second half. That's
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: just going to happen. There's probably going to be a
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: game where Trent Sisley comes in and makes three hustle
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: plays that gets the crowd going and gets us moving.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: And so I think being able to get winning contributions
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: deeper into the roster is just something that we haven't
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: really had. And I think now we do because you
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: look up and down and it's like, that's a big-time
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: basketball player. That's a big-time basketball player.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: It's not a.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: guy from a lower conference that you're kind of trying
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: to fit into it and hoping that they can project,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: you know? So again, it's all theoretical in the off season,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: but all of these things that we're talking about, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: think are reasons why, you know, it's like, you know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: some of the, the analytic sites have India in the
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: forties and fifties. And I mean, that's fine. You know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: their algorithms have certain things baked into it. Like this
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: is a fringe top 2015 to me, just based on
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: the eye test. That, to me, is a fair expectation
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: for what this team can and should be. The Big Ten,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: some of that stuff can be based on schedule. Anywhere
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: between four to eight, but you're a competitive team that
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: no one wants to play. That's all fair. And I
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: think the team has the potential to be even better
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: than that. But that's kind of what I see. And
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I don't know that that's necessarily been the case. I
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: feel like I've been more kind of talking myself into
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: it in past off-seasons. you know, where now it's just,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: and having the exhibition games helps because you can, you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: see them out there a little bit more, but it
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: just looks better. It looks more like what we've been
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: wanting and hoping for.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, to be fair, the spring when he
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: put together the first roster, I think there was a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: lot of us talking not only ourselves, but other people
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: into the idea of some of these players, but they
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: were so unproven at this level that it was kind
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of just going on, you know, the blind faith of, hey,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: this guy knows what he's doing. But then when you
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: look at some of the players he brought in, two
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: of them never even played in a game, Jason Drake
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and Josh Harris. And I think a lot of us,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you could probably go back to some of the podcasts
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: we were talking about. We looked at those guys as
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: they were going to do something. They never did anything.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Now we've actually seen three exhibition games against high major teams. Well,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Western Kentucky is a mid-major team, but they're picked to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: win their league, I think Conference USA. So it's not
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: like they're playing Marion University. We've seen them against these
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: three opponents in relatively, you know, games that were played
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: at a high intensity and perform. So at least we
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: have a little bit now of actual proof of concept
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that this can work. I'm not saying it's going to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: lead to a 25-win season. I say all this, and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I've talked about this with Coach when he was on
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: last time, a couple other guests, and I want to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: get your thoughts on this. I think it's very, very
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: important for this Indiana team They've got opportunities in November.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: They've got opportunities in December. They've got to cash in
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: on some of these opportunities because I don't know how
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: much you've listened to the show, but I've gone back
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to talk about this a couple times. Last season, when
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I went to the Iowa game at home and the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Nebraska game at home, it was during IU football's playoff run,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and people were obviously dialed in on the football, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: understandably so. But Indiana hadn't given people a reason to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: get back in fully. They went to Minnesota. They laid
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: an egg. They had the Kentucky game, I think, where
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: they led by nine at halftime and then just looked
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: awful in the second half. And people were like, you
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: win that game. All of a sudden, people were excited.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: You beat Kentucky on the run. I don't care if
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: it's not a great Kentucky team. This year, they've got Arkansas.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: They've got Kentucky. Um, they've got the Syracuse game early,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: which Syracuse isn't a great team, but they've also got
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: UCF and Missouri, which are better home games in the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: non-conference than they've had in recent years. I think Kansas
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: state and South Carolina were the last two. We can agree.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Those aren't great, but these are teams that have made
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the tournament. I'm not saying you got to win all
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: of them, but you got to be competitive and you
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: got to win, win three or four of them and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: make people feel good about the team. And then all
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: of a sudden you look, you look at the schedule
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: in January and They got some great weekend home games.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, people are excited. Obviously, they're still
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: going to be in on football until football either goes
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: back to the national championship game or loses a playoff game.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: But give people a reason to get back on board.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And I think Indiana actually has to go out there
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and do it now over the first couple months of
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the season before we get to Big Ten play.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, this program has just kind of lost
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: the benefit of the doubt, which it had for a.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Long, long time.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: And it can take a while to build that kind
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: of trust up. It can take a little while to
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: lose it. I mean, I think fans have been incredibly patient, actually,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: given the actual results and the gulf between expectations and results.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: I think fans have been pretty patient.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: But I'm with you.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: It is a little bit in a prove-it phase right now. Like,
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: let's see the wins. That's why we're in the comfort
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: of the offseason, so it's all theoretical. But yes, once
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: those games start coming, you don't have to win them all.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: but I think you gotta be, you should be competitive
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: in all of them. And to your point, you should
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: win three, four, five of them. And, you know, part
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: of what that does is it just, it's a little
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: bit of a pressure valve on big 10 play, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: because if you don't get any good wins there and
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: people are smart enough now about bracketology type stuff, you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: to kind of know like, Hey, if we don't take
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: care of business over here, we're going to have to
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: win like two or three more games in the big
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: 10 just to make the NCAA tournament. And now that
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: pressure builds and that, You know, and it's just this cycle,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: and it feels like we go through this cycle every
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: single year. And that's, I think, what a lot of
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: us just want to get out of is, like, let's
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: just have this season feel better. Let's be in a
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: good spot where we're legitimately talking about, like, what's our
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: seed going to be in February and that kind of thing.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: You know, those are the seasons that are fun and
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: feel like Indiana basketball. And especially for those of us
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: who are older fans, like, it just, it hasn't felt
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: like cheering for the same program. You know, with Indiana football,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: it doesn't feel like that, but in a great way,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: you know. It's like, this change is awesome. Basketball, it's like,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: you know, this is what a Penn State fan or
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: a Nebraska fan kind of goes through with basketball. This
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: isn't what it's supposed to be like for Indiana. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: that's going to reek of entitlement. And that's fine. You know,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I grew up in Bloomington when Bob Knight was coaching there.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: You know, like you start to get a little bit
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: of a sense of entitlement for what Indiana basketball should be.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: But I think that's where like, let's have a season, man,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: where the results meet or exceed the expectations. it has
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: just been so rare that that's happened. And it's hard
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: to keep people engaged and it's hard to keep people confident,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: you know, and positive when that keeps happening over and over.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: So that I think is the best. I mean, obviously look,
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: if this team just wildly exceeds expectations and you're competing
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: for a big 10 title and you're a second, you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: third weekend NCAA tournament team, like fantastic. I mean, that's,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: that's just going to be amazing, but at a minimum, like,
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: let's just get back to, you know, being at or, or,
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: or greater than the expectations. having some fun again, feeling
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: like we got a chance to win each night if
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: we play our game. I think that will just go
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: a long way toward making this season a different experience.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: And then if you have a good offseason next year,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: now you slowly start to build that momentum up.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think having the early season success also kind
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: of could propel them into a Big Ten schedule that's
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit more– I always feel like Indiana never
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: catches a break schedule-wise from the Big Ten.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: There's always something. This year, their West Coast trip is Oregon,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: which their coach obviously just retired, and Washington, who's picked
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to be one of the bottom teams in the league.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: That's a little bit more manageable than going to USC
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: or UCLA. Then they've got a fantastic home schedule. I
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: think a lot of the top teams in the league,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: they only play at home. Like I said, get people
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: back in, and then all of a sudden, Assembly Hall
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: can become... a place that people don't want to come play,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: which it's not been that for, you know, the last, uh,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: several years. So last thing, uh, before we, uh, we
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: wrap this up, cause I know you got to go and, uh,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: got other things to do with, uh, family and all
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: that same for me, but, um, I'm, I'm just curious
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: what in your mind, you maybe talked about this a
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: little bit alluded to it, How would you even define
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a successful season at this point? Is it just getting
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: back to the tournament? You know, you talked about expectations,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: but they're 47th in Ken Palm to begin the season.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think if they finish 45th in Ken Palm,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: people are going to be feeling great about that. I'm
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: just kind of curious, and maybe it's hard to define
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: success anymore in college sports with all the roster movement
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: and things are changing on a yearly, really program are
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: on a year-to-year basis now I mean you can completely
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: flip your roster so I don't really think this is
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a situation where you say you know you need three
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: or four years to build something up I think you
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: need to show progress but how much progress is enough
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to feel like things are going in the right direction.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah I don't think it's like you know, a set
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: number or like a, a specific criteria.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: I think my sense is for most fans, if we
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: are solidly an NCAA tournament team, not backing into it,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: but like at minimum, like a six or a seven
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: seed where it's like, you know, you're going to make it,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: you know, you've got some, some good wins, you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: notched away, you know, you're going to make it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Obviously if you're more in that four or five range,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: that's even better.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: But you know, six, seven, because right around there is
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: like a top 25 ish team. And playing meaningful Big
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: Ten games into that final weekend, you know, where you're,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe you're a game or two out, but
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: you're a factor in the race. You know, the team,
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: you know, when you play against another good Big Ten team,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: it matters. You're not just trying to like upset them
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: and get back to 500.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: It matters.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: And I think if I think if Indiana is doing that,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: fans will be able to walk away from the regular
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: season feeling good. And then, you know, you just you
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: don't want to embarrass yourself in the tournaments. Win a
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: game or two in the Big Ten tournament, don't lose
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: to somebody that you shouldn't lose to. Get into the
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: NCAA tournament, win a game or two. So much there
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: can be dependent on matchups. Again, as long as you
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: don't embarrass yourself in a tournament setting, people will be okay.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I think it's more just like, what does this regular
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: season feel like? Am I watching a game on February
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: 27th out of just the obligation because I have to
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: because I'm an IU fan, but it doesn't mean anything?
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Or am I showing up because I'm excited because if
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: we win this game, we're tied for the lead?
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: In Big Ten play.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Like, I think stacking up those moments really matters because
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: they've just been too few and far between, you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: in the past where the good moment is an undermanned
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: Indiana team winning four in a row at the end
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: of the year and Anthony Leal hitting a big shot. Like,
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: those are cool moments, but you didn't show up to
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: the game really feeling great about it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Like, how do we feel? Let's get our confidence. Let's
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: get our mojo back a little bit. And I think
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: that's how you start to do that. So to me,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: that's kind of the minimum bar. And I think it's
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: less about a certain number of wins or a certain
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: criteria and more about just how are we showing up
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: to each game? Because the more that it just feels
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: like you were watching games that don't really matter in
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: the grand scheme of things. I just think that has
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: a cumulative effect on everybody's psyche. And that's not what people,
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: especially older fans. That's not what we, I mean, it's
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: not like you, I didn't sign up to be an
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Indiana fan. It was, you know, it happened and it
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: was awesome, but you know, that gets in your blood
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: and it's just like, this isn't what it's supposed to
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: feel like.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of how it's been.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: For the better part of 10 years.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think putting absolutes on anything is not a
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: great way to look at any team that you follow
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: because I think if you follow anything closely enough, there's nuances,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: there's different things that happen throughout the course of a season.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: There can be injuries, there can be circumstances that lead
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to a team winning a game they shouldn't have won.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe the other team has their best player out or
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: things like that. And I think you get into the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: thing of You know, some people want to say, well,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you know, if they don't win 24 games this season
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and they don't win 12 Big Ten games and it's
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: not a successful season, well, you can still win, you
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: can win 23 and have a really good, you don't
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: want to put absolutes on anything. I agree with you.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It's a feeling of, you know, do you feel like
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: when you get to the best part of the season
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: or the end of part of the season, do you
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: have a chance to play your best basketball? You know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: even if you're a seven seed, do you feel like, hey,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: we win a game, all of a sudden there's a
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: two seed that doesn't want to play us, you know?
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: There's a chance we could go. I feel like the
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: feeling of knowing that the team's getting better and knowing
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that things are moving in the right direction, I think
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that can drive a lot of it. And I think
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: there just hasn't been that feeling with enough regularity for
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. And you mentioned kind of people just,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: some people are beaten down. I've heard from, I've gotten
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: people email me, people contact me all the time and
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: they're just like, when are we going to be good again?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: When's IU going to be good again? I don't have
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the answer to it, but I feel like at least
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: going into the season, there's reasons for optimism this year.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Obviously there was reasons last year too, because of you
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: had a new coach, a new regime, and you had
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: some new players. But I think when we did the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: look back on it, I think there was a lot
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: of things that we missed and talked ourselves into in
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: terms of that roster that you would look back and said,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: you know, Reed Bailey's not going to work as the five. Well,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: now there's some guys that probably can work as the
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: five and there's other pieces on the team. I think
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that are just better suited to have success in the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: big 10. So yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to the season starting again. Obviously it's
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: crazy time right now because I'm doing some football stuff too,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: as well. And the crossover time is, is really hectic,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: but it's been a lot of fun. And I'm just
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: hoping that ultimately it'd be awesome. If Indiana football and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Indiana basketball were both, operating at a really high level
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: football has done its part obviously it's been so much
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: fun to watch the rise there and uh you know
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: i i found myself you know obviously watching every game
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: every snap and it's it's so much fun uh to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: have that coverage over now over on inside the hall
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and uh hopefully basketball can get back to at least
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: a level where people feel good about the program and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: want to follow it and want to show up to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: games and make it a priority to watch.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Them yeah well and i think there's it just is
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: kind of an addendum to the last thing that we
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: just talked about. There's a lesson there with football for,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: I think where people want basketball to get back to,
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: which is like what Indiana football does on a weekly
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: basis matters in the grand scheme of college football. And
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: I think for a long time, there's been many Indiana
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: basketball seasons where what happens in an Indiana basketball game
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: doesn't really matter. You can listen to the ion college
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: basketball podcast and it doesn't even get mentioned, you know?
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: And that's the thing like with Indiana football, it's like,
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: I'll listen to the Todd McShay show. They're talking about
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Indiana prospects. I listened to Joel Klatt do a local
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: like radio hit here in Dallas. They always talk about
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: Indiana football, even when it has nothing to do with
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: the team in Texas, but it's because Indiana football matters.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: And that's what has not been the case with Indiana
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: basketball for so long that, you know, for, you know,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: for a lot of people, it's like Indiana basketball matters
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: in the fabric of college basketball. We're supposed to be
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: a blue blood, like all this stuff, but we haven't
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: really been a very interesting topic of conversation. Let's get
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: back to being an interesting topic of conversation because our
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: teams matter and because our team is a contender in
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: the conference and maybe even like a dark horse contender
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: to do something in tournament play. Let's at least be
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: one of those teams again. So we're back on the
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: radar and that will start to get people feeling good.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Because right now, like telling people you're an Indiana basketball fan,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: they kind of look at you with pity sometimes.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, they just ask you about football now.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right. They're like, wait, what? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: forget basketball. Let's talk football.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: And, you know, For a lot of us, our Indiana
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: sports identity is basketball. And that doesn't mean that there
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: isn't room for all this stuff. It's not to put
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: them against each other. But it's interesting seeing what the
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: reputation of football is like and the feeling that you
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: have as an IU football fan. Because a lot of
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: people remember that, but from basketball. So to your point,
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: let's get it all working together.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Because it could really be.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: A beautiful thing if you've got several programs that are
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: competing near the top of their sport.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I remember those baseball runs where they went
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to the College World Series. I remember watching those. I'm
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: not covering a team, so I'm watching. Last year, the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: volleyball team, they made the tournament for the first time.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I was watching some of those matches and getting into
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: that as well.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Women's basketball had it rolling.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly, that too. I don't want to pin you down
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: on a schedule, but how often can we expect to
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: see you on the Assembly Call postgame shows this season?
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: As often as possible.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: It's like we were talking about. It gets a little
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: bit harder just with the kids' schedules. And, you know,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: on the weekends, I'm coaching my son's soccer and football team.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: And then we've got stuff going on at night, you know. And,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: you know, my wife works a lot of hours. So
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: it's just the context has changed so much from when
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: we launched the show where I'm, like, living at home
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: by myself.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: It's like, of course, I can be available live. I've
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: got nothing else to do. Yeah.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Guy commits emergency podcast. We're getting right on. Now it's like.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: I know. It's like it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: We let Galen do all that stuff now, right?
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: He's the man in terms of churning out the pods.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Now, we're so lucky that Coach obviously is retired, and
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: so he's able to take on more of it. So
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: him and Ryan and Andy, and then obviously other people
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: on the back home network like Bob and Mike. So
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: we've got a lot of people that we can draw on,
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: which is awesome.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: But I mean, it's still so much fun.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah and it's still it's so much fun you know
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: coming on and doing it so i can't really pin
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: myself down because sometimes i won't even know till the
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: day of but yeah i mean that's i'll definitely be
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: on as many as i can and hopefully it's a
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: lot of victorious episodes this year i.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Always look at the uh because you know we still
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: embed the show and the thing i do at the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: buzzer every game it's always trying to look at the
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: thumbnail that you posted maybe some foreshadowing it's like is
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he planning to be on there well maybe he's gonna
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: pop in at the 30 minute mark maybe he's going
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to have a kid making noise in the background. So that,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's, that's awesome. You know, it's,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it's fine. Exactly. People got to understand. So I appreciate
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: you taking the time, uh, to come on.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: Thanks for the opportunity.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Always good to see you. Um, who knows, maybe if
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: things go well, we'll have to talk later in the season,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: closer to hopefully an NCAA tournament appearance, talking about what it,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: you know, it's been like to, to see the program
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: have a successful season. So I know we're all hoping
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: to see that and, and hopefully it's a good season. And, uh,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like I said, thanks again for taking the time, Jared,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Thank you, Alex.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Appreciate everybody listening to the show. As always, if you
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy the show, as I said at the top, leave
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: us a rating. and review over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Watch on YouTube. Like the video. Subscribe to the channel.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: We'll be back soon with another episode of Podcast on
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the Brain.