Latest / The Director's Chair Network / The Last Samurai
Transcript
- 0:04 [Music] 0:14 [Music] 0:25 welcome to another episode of zwix flicks the Ed zwick podcast I am truly 0:31 honored and grateful to have today's guest co-host on I have Craig Cohan Mr Craig Cohan he is the original podfather 0:38 for those that know no for those don't know it doesn't really matter because Craig it's just a pleasure to have you 0:43 I've podcast with you a few times before another projects first and foremost how are you doing today I'm good Craig you 0:51 came on today and you picked this film what is your history with ewick if any uh what do you think of his films 0:57 overall it's interesting because until you started in this show I never really sort of took a highlevel look at Ed's 1:05 Wick as a filmmaker it was a a guy who's like name I knew and when I went back 1:10 and looked I'm like there was a run of films that I went and saw every film in the theater and I'm not probably being 1:16 fair there because there was a a time period in my life where I think a lot of guys when we were in our early 20s we 1:23 just went to the movies sure it was a a different time period you didn't have streaming you didn't have access to 1:29 movies so so on a Thursday night you would just go to the movies and see what was ever out sometimes you'd see two 1:35 movies whatever movie he made after The Last Samurai I don't even I'm not even sure I know was Legends of the Fall the 1:41 first one you saw of his in the theater or did you think you saw glory in the theater I you know what uh full 1:48 disclosure here I've never seen Glory oh you haven't seen Glory yet no it's my movie of Shame and yeah you spill my 1:54 heart well no wow let me let me you a fil nut you are a film nut I don't mean to suppose you pod father but what's 2:01 going on here if this is another thing aside from like westerns I'm not a real 2:07 big pre 1900 type movies that are set pre- like 1900 so unless it's like a 2:12 civil war like era Western it just like danc with Wolves for example you've seen 2:18 it's not a civil war film per se yeah it's a hole in my filmography that I need to address well we are addressing 2:25 it we're talking about it right now yeah it's it's just an issue I have and it's completely a Craig issue uh it's just 2:32 hard for me to get into films like that that's fine look and I'm not going to shame you just a little bit I'm going to 2:38 challenge you to watch it with your wife one day you really got to see Glory I mean in fact we're going to do two more 2:43 movies together on this podcast show that the aswick show oh so before the before one of those I I'll I'll have 2:49 watched it I I think the audience would like to hear your thoughts as a first-time viewer and a film you're a film guy so I'm actually genuinely 2:56 curious what you think of the film so I think it should be look it's not a hard film to watch so let's just say watch 3:01 the film and I would like to hear your thoughts on well I know all the Beats cuz I I listened to the episode and uh I 3:06 got to hear all the the excitement surrounding you know Matthew broad's mom sort of being a a nuisance uh oh she's a 3:15 lovely woman lovely lovely for Ed getting to hear you discover that like Matthew bradrick killed somebody yeah I 3:22 don't know if I ever knew that with Jennifer Gray in the car like he killed two people yeah he killed two people I 3:28 think he was getting service in the car I'm not joking cuz they weren't drunk I think they were doing something else in the car he was distracted yeah no it's 3:34 funny because they just put out uh within the last couple months like I'm a 4K guy I'm I'm sure you've seen on 3:41 Facebook we talk about 4K and everything they put out recently like a brand new 4k of Glory which from everything I've 3:48 read is supposed to be just phenomenal and the thing I love about 4K is it's 3:54 really the closest you can get to being in the theater I remember a couple months ago I picked up blade on 4K blade 4:01 is a movie I had on DVD I never upgraded to Blu-ray I put the 4K in and I sat 4:06 down and started watching it and I saw blade in the theater like probably six times oh wow okay and and I was like oh 4:13 my God I never thought I would get to see blade like this again I mean it looks I mean yeah I mean I don't know if 4:20 you've ever sat down like and when watched a true 4K just through streaming not through uh the hardware I think the 4:27 hardware is a little bit better than streaming for is it not yeah yes 4K streaming I have yes yeah it's 4:34 phenomenal and and it's been amazing for film and film preservation and the 4:40 funniest thing about it too is people are so used to watching like shitty transfers of films and they don't 4:46 realize that like films from the 30s or 40s 50s 60s even 70s can look good 4:52 they're like it looks like it was shot yesterday and my thinking is always like yeah it was shot on film that was 5:00 properly preserved yes and just hadn't been properly scanned for a home video 5:05 release ever it's always funny that people have these Notions that like a movie made in the 30 is is supposed to 5:12 look like [ __ ] well no it's not I mean if the filmmakers were competent the 5:18 negatives gonna look great well which brings me to your podcast you're doing right now well I should say this I 5:24 totally stole your idea I stole your idea so why don't you tell the audience podcast you do and secondly regarding 5:33 your talk about film and how it looks it was actually my guest spot on your show where I rewatched a film that I haven't 5:39 seen in 30 years but saw a lot as a teenager and in my early 20s but you know I guess 20 25 years later I haven't 5:45 seen the film in 2025 years I saw I saw in 4k or whatever High death at least but watched The Untouchables as a hint 5:53 here I watched it on my you know 4K TV and it looked so good I was like I don't 5:59 remember cuz last time I saw it was on a tube TV probably 1996 Square image yeah sure Square image 6:06 yeah so it's such a beautiful looking film they had films look like this so exactly like you're describing I'm 6:11 naively watching this older film that I've seen many times and I'm recognizing boy it looks sharp it looks good so 6:17 Craig what is the what is the podcast you're doing right now uh it's called the goat Brian deama fan podcast and the 6:25 theory or um thesis I'm trying to present during the course of the show is that Brian dep is America's greatest 6:32 living director I'm not sure I 100% believe that uh but when you catch me at 6:39 the right point I 100% believe it Brian dama does two things he makes really really good films he takes big swings 6:47 and anytime you take a big swing you're bound to have some glorious strikeouts 6:53 any good filmmaker if they don't have one or two bad movies in their 7:00 filmography right then something's wrong because nobody's G to ever bat a 7:06 thousand good point yeah good so you know at least my history with podcasting I've been podcasting for a long time 7:13 yeah I came out of my last podcast conversations at Jack Rabbit Slims kind of satisfied that I had done what I 7:19 wanted with that show and I did a bunch of guest spots including guest spots on your shows I love podcasting I love 7:26 sitting down and talking with people and connecting and I've made so many many connections you included through 7:31 podcasting but I hate all the other [ __ ] that comes fromc I know I know the preparation the post production work 7:38 it's a lot of work so I thought how can I do something that will allow me to have this sort of balance where I'm able 7:45 to still spend time with my wife and my pets and uh my other Hobbies that's not 7:50 going to be all-encompassing because you know maybe some of your listeners know at its height when I was doing the slide 7:56 cast we were doing you know episodes that were two two and a hours long and when you've got four people talking for 8:02 two and a half hours that's a lot of editing yeah so I would spend hours editing the show and it just became just 8:09 such a burden so I said what can I do to sort of make a show that works for me I 8:15 have a short commute to work so I was like um I'm in the car for maybe 12 minutes going to and from work every day 8:21 and I'm like I'm sure a lot of people listen to podcasting when they commute so I was like what if I did something 8:27 that was on the shorter end 15 to 30 minute long episodes and that sort of got me really energized because I'm like 8:33 yeah I can edit 30 minutes audio no problem at that same point I was really 8:38 sort of rediscovering Brian deama in my film world everything I think traces back to quent Tarantino right I think it 8:45 was probably listening to his video archives podcast that he does with Roger Avery where they talk about dama a lot 8:52 interesting and I was like oh you know what let me watch blowout again you know let me watch dress the hill again and it 8:59 became came this thing where I was like aside from the fact that you can tell Tarantino is heavily influenced by dama 9:05 I was like D's filmography much like Ed's Wix is super diverse a lot of 9:10 filmmakers just get caught in this rut where like Wes Craven is known as the horror Guy Brian D made horror movies 9:16 but he somehow got out of that and made one of the greatest gangster flicks of all time in Scarface so I was like let 9:23 me explore that uh so the concept of the show as it exists right now every 9:28 episode I sit down with a friend or a fellow podcaster let them pick a scene 9:33 in a particular dama film and just talk about that scene and why it's great and 9:38 and what makes it part of a great movie you said we did The Untouchables we did that amazing Church scene between Uh 9:45 Kevin Coster and Sean connory uh yeah so every episode it's about 20 to 30 minutes just talking through a scene and 9:52 the overall picture in general sort of argue for why Brian dama is the great 9:57 director that he is well thanks for uh lowering your standards and coming on an edwick podcast I appreciate it I don't 10:04 know where edwick stands in the pathon of directors it's just as people know who' listened to the show already I said 10:10 it at my intro my intro video kind of describes it but just generally speaking it just seems to be that I've enjoyed a 10:16 good chunk of zwix flicks throughout the years and I'm like who is this guy what else has he done that I missed and so 10:22 this journey has been the combination of watching films that I haven't seen of his yet which I did with like leaving normal in about last night for example 10:28 right off the bat and some of his later films too and I I think this might be 10:34 his ratio though I will say I'm not just because I'm doing his podcast but he's batting pretty good his quality of films 10:42 even the ones that were box office bombs leaving normal was a bomb it's a good 10:47 film I'm still kind of waiting for his bad film a film where I'm like o maybe it's coming these later films but Craig 10:55 Last Samurai not it oh no not at all and do we ever discover what that movie I 11:00 was thinking of is is it the siege oh he did The Siege with Bruce Willis okay 11:06 that's the one I was thinking of and you did that with Doug right I did The Siege with Scott from the um oh the from uh 11:13 men of action yeah Church of Tarantino and yeah yeah but the siege is the one 11:18 where like they declare martial law right yes okay yeah so that's the one I was thinking I for some reason I thought 11:23 it was called The Last Castle which is another movie James Gand I've seen I think wasn't Robert Redford in that as 11:30 well yeah yeah I got those movies confused sort of like I got like Legends of the Fall and that flyfish A River 11:36 Runs Through It mixed up I think IAL I don't I don't know how you got that mixed up you told me that in a chat and I still don't understand it somebody 11:42 well they're both right so what there's so different films I can't even handle it but that's okay okay are you gonna do 11:49 a side cast where you cover my so-called life you know it's not a badad idea like 11:55 I've wondered like where my edwick stuff will end like the idea is it's a min series that's kind of how I want to tackle he's got 13 films that he 12:03 directed that went to the theater that's it that's it that's all or feature films you want to call some do go to streaming 12:08 I think one of his last films might have just been streaming only however the idea being that these are feature films 12:14 not made for TV he did because he did a couple TV films not interested I want you know about last night was his first 12:20 feature film for like the big screen he's produced films as you know he is an Academy Award winner he's a producer for 12:26 Shakespeare and love he won an Academy Award for that film he produced traffic I am Sam the executive produced The 12:33 Birth of a Nation in 2016 tons of TV stuff 30 something was one that I was kind of interested in that ran for four 12:39 years yeah I think that's probably hard to find though like I don't think that's streaming anywhere no it's not yeah it's 12:45 not so Last Samurai I saw in the theaters I'm probably 90% sure you saw in the theaters the it was actually 12:51 until this viewing was the last time I had saw it was in the theater and it's funny because my wife loves this movie 12:56 so we've had the Blu-ray sitting downstairs for years you pulled it out and put in the old player there of course yeah and 13:03 you know what man I got to tell you that Blu-ray is loaded with extras yeah it's got like a 17 minute chat between zwick 13:11 and Cruz oh wow looks like it was filmed around the time of the movie like they had just finished it or it's got like an 13:17 edwick video Journal it's got a commentary track wow it's loaded I was 13:23 like wow this is a really really loaded Blu-ray yeah I I saw it in theaters remember really really digging painon 13:29 theaters yeah I hadn't watched it again until we sat down the other night to watch it for this for this recording so 13:35 let's talk about a couple things from the film I actually watched it with my kids I have 10-year-old Twins and my 12-year-old Sons so boy girl twins and 13:42 12-year-old son and my wife and I we all washed it last weekend in preparation for the podcast to re rewatch it of 13:48 course for myself but also like my kids are watching these type of films we watch older films for them but like we 13:55 watched like Forest Gump we've watched we watched The Green Mile we watched these heavy films I think they're really 14:00 important for them and they love these non-cgi films that's what I love is to watch my kids watch non-cgi films and 14:06 they get to really experience the aesthetic of these films that are story driven character driven acting driven 14:13 and my 10-year-old son is a huge Tom Cruz fan he Top Gun films he loves the he loves the mission impossible films So 14:19 speaking of R Palma he's watched the first one he's he loves them all like he's our Harrison Ford he understands 14:25 that Tom's a little bit older like he's 60 now but he's really loving watching the next Tom Cruz actually film we're going to watch he hasn't seen yet will 14:31 be Far and Away that'll be the next one we watch yeah I also am a Tom Cruz fan we're going to get to him last so this 14:36 just teas it he'll be the last actor that we discussed regarding this film but the one thing that while I was watching this with the family recently 14:42 that occurred to me is how much I there was an error that started around Legends of the Fall Dan's wolves even but there 14:50 was an era of film Craig I don't know if there's a a term or a eror that was 14:55 named where we had these sweeping epic films and got it I miss it I miss these 15:01 epic like Troy there were these sweeping sandal films and Gladiator in 2000 you 15:07 get like there was a 10-year period where we were getting these sweeping epic films and I really missed them yeah 15:12 I think it's part of that EB and flow of Hollywood you know where something hits 15:18 and everybody else decides to get on that train or there's that theory that good ideas are just bound to happen and 15:25 that's sometimes you'll see two people that come up with very similar ideas completely separate from each other it's 15:31 just like the universe was ready for it because there was that Resurgence of westerns in like the 90s where we got 15:36 like Tombstone Unforgiven open range oh open range don't get me started like can 15:42 now get me excited for that Western podcast always talk about doing because I love Western and open range 15:48 unsung film that film is so overlooked it's incred yeah briyan I've been thinking a lot about your Western 15:55 podcast because I've been watching the dollars Trilogy on 4K serg Leone so I've been watching those but you know what I 16:02 think would be really cool is if you sort of break that podcast out into the 16:08 historical timeline of the old west so start in what whatever year you want to start in 1860 or whatever and then find 16:17 movies that chronologically take place during the course of the old west that's insane I 16:23 get what you're saying but holy research you're talking about the research before a show you're killing me you just find 16:29 out like when Young Guns well like yeah Billy the Kid era yeah like it's not that hard and then you just pick I'm the 16:35 type of person that gets really into it so I would be like okay we're going to do a complete chronological look at the 16:40 old west over a 100 films or whatever but just take your the Western you want to talk about but break them out in a 16:47 timeline you're able to sort of look at the Historical progression of the old west you could almost end with the Wild 16:52 Bunch or whatever you know where they determin that like the development of the Gatling gun sort of brought end to 16:59 the old west because we've got that beautiful ballet of violence at the end of the Wild Bunch where the Gatling gun 17:06 becomes the ultimate that's actually used in in this movie too yeah very effectively I'm very into your Western 17:12 podcast and if I would love to be involved however you want me to involved if you want me to be an executive producer the one thing about podcasting 17:19 I always look for is looking to fill a gap that other people haven't fil I have envisioned a western podcast Network the 17:27 same way with the last of the action I think it's big enough that yeah yeah there could be multiple like there could 17:32 be a person that handles the horror westerns there could be a person that handles the black and white westerns 17:38 there could be a person that like I kind of envisioned that there could be a western podcast Network yeah like even 17:43 contemporary westerns like you know John CO's vampires he considers that a western you know or the Ghost of Mars is 17:49 another one he considers a western like that I'm all on board for it man because I I love that genre but getting back to 17:55 things Hollywood es and flows and there was that period and it it might be the last the last time we ever see 18:02 it which is a shame but who knows Gladiator 2 is coming out I was just going to say Gladiator 2 might re like 18:08 ironically it might respark it I'm looking forward to that I can't wait we're going to watch Gladiator the first film is a family in preparation for 18:14 Gladiator 2 we might just see that in the theaters I'm going to take a chance I got a feeling Gladiator 2 will be just fine I've said before I can't imagine 18:20 really Scott's going to destroy the Legacy I think he's aware of that I think he's going to give us a fun film he's another great filmmaker that has 18:27 taken swings and has confounding confounding 18:33 misses yeah yeah there was a period where I I I went through a big rley Scott phas yes oh yeah me too okay uh 18:39 what were your thoughts on the score of this film speaking of sweeping epics we got a sweeping score by Han Zimmer what 18:45 do you think anytime I sit down to podcast especially with you I focus more on the score because I know that's going 18:51 to be a point of discussion I tried to get real nitpicky with this score there's no theme running through 18:58 throughout the film that I remember mhm at the same time the music's really 19:05 effing effective especially during the end where the massacre is happening and 19:10 we see emotion on people's faces strip the music away from that scene it's not going to make you feel the way that 19:17 scene makes you feel so it did its job but at the same time it's not a score I'm G to rush out and say oh I need to 19:24 listen to the you know the theme from The Last Samurai again it's not iconic but at the same time not every film 19:29 score needs to be iconic it needs to serve the film perfectly said I agree we talk about Glory when Doug and I Cover 19:35 Glory that was one of our biggest applauding of that film was the score alone would makes me want to cry you 19:41 play the score from your CD which I owned I think I still own actually I say I own I still own the CD I bought the 19:47 soundtrack I love the score so I just listen to the boys choir when the score is so good that you visualize the film 19:53 in your mind and you're moved by the music last micans is a great example of that as well so there's C scores that 19:59 when I hear the score I'm just like oh I feel I know and I start to like well up or feel the emotion so this film no 20:06 there's no part of the score here where I felt that same type of emotion in the 20:13 sense of like I didn't get welled up I didn't get that kind of feel even though people died characters died characters 20:18 that we liked died that wasn't the purpose of this film it wasn't necessarily it wasn't designed to make 20:24 you get all kind of teary eyed like Legends of the Fall and Glory those type of films kind of tugged at the heartstrings this one doesn't tug at the 20:31 heartstrings so much or Like Gladiator of course end Gladiator that music Gladiator you hear that you start crying without you know you just listen to that 20:37 end song I forget what it's called but it's amazing you start welling up right so totally agree with you a very 20:43 effective soundtrack my 12-year-old son and that sound kind of came in the big Triumph and my son was like kind of 20:50 moving to it like he was reacting to the score as the score would do but when it you're right but when that scene is over 20:56 when the time has passed you're not going back to the score yeah but you got to the idea of like not being too 21:02 emotionally moved and I think the thing about this movie Ryan is if you look at the overall theme of the movie it's 21:08 really about honor a lot of the deaths in this movie aren't said because 21:14 they're tied into a character doing what they think is The Honorable thing excellent point Craig yeah I that could 21:22 very well be you never considered any of their deaths I would say tragic I mean death is never like we never get excited 21:28 he they died but you're right because they view the way they view death and they're at peace with death and it's an 21:34 honorable death kind of you know very cling on speak for them it's like no I Dying With Honor I'm not afraid I did 21:41 everything I was supposed to do so everyone that kind of dies you're like they'll die doing what they were sworn 21:47 to do their Duty you see it most of all I mean you've got this incredibly complex relationship between Cruz the 21:55 wife of the Samurai he killed and her son this was an American story that 22:00 triangle would be very different whereas here he apologizes to her she accepts 22:05 the apology and she's able to do a lot of things you would never do for the man that killed your husband and at the same 22:12 time the son understood that his dad died doing The Honorable thing and that 22:19 at the same time connects to the cruise character in a way that he doesn't want to lose him the way he lost his dad and 22:26 instead of resentment and hatred it's just like hey you've been a good force in my life even though you took my dad I 22:33 don't want you to go away as well yeah that was a great relationship writing and speaking of the writing uh was 22:39 written by a guy have you heard of this guy John Logan John Logan he also what from what I remember he wrote Gladiator 22:45 yeah this guy's had quite the career there's a great Lou Diamond Phillips movie called bats which I didn't know 22:51 that he know that was his first film that was his first film bats is awesome and I know you talked about L Diamond 22:57 Phillips on the courage Fire episode uh and how much you like him if if you haven't seen bats it's sort of uh it's 23:04 another one I haven't seen since theaters but that's a movie I left the theater I'm like man did exactly what it was supposed to do for a movie called 23:09 bats I forgot about that film I've seen the film I saw it on VHS back in the day came out 99 I I did see it because I'm a 23:15 Lou fan little did I know that the writer of bats would also give us Any Given Sunday which I saw in the theaters 23:21 I saw Oliver Stone another filmmaker who I absolutely adore yeah made a sweeping 23:27 epic in Alexander which has three different cuts great fil there three cuts of Alexander as long as it keep 23:33 showing the Ros Dawson naked in each one that's all um yeah and I think he also was involved in some of the Daniel Craig 23:41 Bond movies then he wrote boy if I had to do a top five film listing Craig I 23:47 would have a hard time not putting this in I don't know what would knock this one out Gladiator I have loved Gladiator 23:53 since day one when I saw in the theaters it is a film that I measure these epic type films too this it has everything 23:59 action acting the direction groundbreaking I remember people were 24:04 saying I can't believe they're making a sword and sandal film it was mocked and 24:09 ridiculed the same way that Titanic was but really not only did he accomplish one of the best films ever made he had 24:16 grown men around the world crying and this film wins best picture I just love that this film did what Titanic did in 24:21 some degree meaning like do you remember the naysayers about this film being made Gladiator was a movie that I can't 24:27 remember a Time much before it I I know like when Terminator 2 came out me and my brother 24:33 like planned for that I took off work this was a movie it came out on May 5th Cinco de Mayo here I'm gonna go get a 24:40 nice Mexican dinner and then I'm going to see Gladiator and this was probably two months out it might have been that I 24:46 was really into Ridley Scott at that point but yeah I remember just the overall excitement around that movie 24:52 there's always naysayers because again like Titanic I was one of the Titanic naysayers uh before I realized you just 24:58 never bet against James Cameron uh that guy knows what audience wants and Gladiator was exactly the same way I 25:05 mean it was again there hadn't been a sword and sandal movie in a long time it took off there was a lot of hype 25:10 surrounding that too because it was really when CG was really starting to be 25:16 become a selling tool for movies because I remember Promotional featurettes and stuff where they did like that 360 shot 25:23 of the Coliseum and they're like here's how we shot it and it's empty and then all of a sudden there's 60,000 people in 25:29 get the CGI extras in there that they weren't like probably the peak of CGI 25:35 being used as a selling tool for movies before it sort of became like a cheap sort of tool but at the same time 25:42 actually Lord of the Rings came out yeah the idea being that we're not using CGI to sell our movie we're using CGI to 25:47 tell our story yeah but the other thing that's great about the Lord of the Rings movie movies and Peter Jackson in 25:52 general is he embraced every technology so in the to the Rings movies you still 25:59 got mat paintings You' still got Miniatures but it's all integrated together trick filming too like the 26:05 depth of field so you can make Gandalf look really big and yeah and Frodo look really small uh so it it's just like 26:12 what's the best way to tell the story it's a shame Ryan because nowadays and we've talked about this on other 26:18 episodes on the last of the action heroes podcast Network it's just default you're going to do it in CG and nobody tries to figure things out anymore and I 26:25 think that gets back to your kids and how they respond to these older films because I've always said that when you 26:32 watch let's use fast than the Furious 10 as an example your mind knows it's not 26:39 real your mind knows that everything that's being done is being done inside 26:44 of a computer and it's just a bunch of ones and zeros that spit out an image when you watch an older movie that's got 26:49 practical effects your mind is processing in a way where it says wow this car that's about to do a roll 26:57 somebody is in that that car executing that role so I think psychologically 27:02 there's a difference between watching a CGI film and a film that's got practical effects and it's cool that your children 27:08 are responding to it the way they're supposed to as opposed to being like wow you can tell that's fake they're fake in 27:14 different ways the entertainment part of the brain whatever appreciates the aesthetic of real versus CGI they 27:22 actually like Indiana Jones falling off his horse versus maybe Harry Potter on the Broom aesthetically they kind of 27:28 like the real more than CGI well it's got also the potential for more personality let's talk about like King 27:35 Kong the original King Kong it's a stop motion puppet that doesn't even look the same throughout the course of the movie 27:41 but that ape has a ton of personality and that's the artist that was doing 27:48 every frame of that stop motion gave that character the personality it has and I'm not saying you can't do that 27:54 with CGI it's just a lot harder to see going back to John Logan but yeah talk about CGI working well then you have of 28:01 course Andy Circus doing the Golem where you use the CGI but you're still using the human part of the acting that he 28:08 still brings that character motion capture they use CGI to make the creature but it's still the human 28:14 element that does the acting okay what this guy's written The Aviator incredible film Sweeney Todd uh he did 28:20 wrango that animation film with Gori he wrote for well FS he did Skyfall okay 28:27 sky probably the best Bond film ever made he wrote that for S he also wrote one of 28:32 the worst Bond films ever made okay well we're not going to talk about Spectre okay that's not the point the point is 28:38 he wrote Skyfall okay uh he also wrote again for Ridley alien covenant not too shabby and he's working on a film right 28:44 now with antoan Huka they're doing a biography on Michael Jackson oh wow he 28:50 also started out like writing plays right he did some playwork yeah right up 28:55 until before his first film right up until 199 he did about five or six plays he he's done some plays that are like 29:02 Mulan Rouge for example he redid that as a play 2019 Ed actually gets an onscreen 29:07 coite credit for this movie what he's done in all of his films it seems like so far if he doesn't get the credit on 29:14 the screen because of all that legality of issues he has a hand in the writing 29:19 regardless and any director's gonna do that or any director that's worth a damn dep's the same way the guild rules Ryan 29:26 are like it has to a a certain percentage of the script that is 29:31 credited to you well if you change three lines of dialogue you're not altering the structure of that film right all 29:38 you're doing is changing the way a line is said and that's always what's sort of funny to me when people talk about 29:44 writing credits is and the same thing happens with songw writing too they're like oh you know uh so and so did such a 29:50 great drum beat on this song why aren't they considered a writer well they didn't do anything with the structural 29:56 content of that song they provideed a part and it's the same thing with movies unless you're providing a a noticeable 30:03 percentage of structural change to a movie all your writing is really doing 30:08 at that point is augmenting or amplifying stuff that the original writer did and writing credits are 30:14 really really interesting there was famously uh Terry Gilliam another madman 30:19 filmmaker who I adore he did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas yeah still haven't seen it don't know when I will if I ever 30:26 will I just so that was based on by Hunter S Thompson and it was previously 30:31 they attempted to adapt it with Alex Cox who did Repo Man and there was a bunch 30:36 of arbitration when that movie came out and Alex Cox and his screenwriting partner argued and won screenplay credit 30:44 for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Terry gilliams point was like it's based 30:50 on a book of course we're gonna have similar scenes so I'm not saying they always get it right but for the most 30:56 part I did know notice Ryan because you've talked about it on the previous episode I did take note of the fact that 31:02 zwick had that official onscreen co- writing credit yeah he hasn't had one in 31:09 a while you're right about that okay so that's your writing credits of course we know who directed the film we talked about the score let's get into some of 31:15 the actors here some interesting bit players one that came up right away when this individual came onto the screen I hadn't seen this movie in a while I'm 31:21 not going to lie I don't watch films over and over again 100 times I just don't know enough time in my life or any kind of given day was Billy Connelly 31:27 playing Sergeant Zebulon Gant at the very beginning of the film uh what did you think of Billy's performance as 31:33 sergeant Zebulon Gant it was fine and I mean I think a lot of people probably know him more for like comedic roles is 31:39 he a standup comedian is he AED I don't know if you if it made its way up to Canada but there was a show 31:46 with Howard hesman called Head of the Class that's where Robin Gibbons came from oh yes and when Howard hpin left 31:54 Head of the Class they replaced him with Billy Connelly yeah only for 22 Episodes apparently so so yeah I've always known 32:01 him more as like a comedic actor he was fine here his character did what he was supposed to do yeah I I don't have 32:08 anything good or bad to say about the performance yeah I found it an interesting cast scene Ed didn't talk 32:14 about him necessarily in the audio book about why they chose him or kind of what brought Billy to this epic of a sweeping 32:20 type film other than his Irish American background they try to give him some sort of Irish americ background yeah 32:27 when it comes to cast movies like this he's Scottish he was I believe he's Scottish yes the look is more important 32:33 than anything else yeah he looks the part when you watch glory and this is the only disappointing thing why kind of not mad at you but only slightly 32:40 disappointing that you haven't seen glory is there's a couple beats in this film that mirror Glory quite closely one 32:47 of them is there's a Irish drill sergeant in glory that yells at the 32:52 black troops and gets them in order and that's exactly the same type of character that Billy is this film that 32:59 the Irish Scottish guy was in the glory film now you could argue it's about the same time here in 1800s so they just 33:04 kind of recruited people from that area of the world to become drill sergeants very similar characters and the way they 33:10 presented one thing that came to my mind watching this film was when Tom Cruz's character hands over his journals to the 33:18 uh the photographer dude the journalist photographer guy the historian of sorts that was living in Japan for quite some 33:24 time I forget his name off top of my head Timothy Spa the actor that's right he plays Simon Graham that's right he 33:30 was a British photographer and Scholar hired as an interpreter for the captain alrm played by Tom Cruz and his 33:36 non-english-speaking soldiers okay so he was kind of like a translator between the soldiers and uh and alren he lived 33:43 in Japan for sometime anyways he he was handed the journals before the final battle Captain 33:50 Oram Mr 33:55 Graham perhaps you can use these for your book yes I will 34:02 Captain godp speed Mr grah and Matthew brck did the 34:08 exact his character did the exact same thing in glory handed his letters to the journalist that was there it was almost 34:14 like beat for beat the that's a film making is a cliche it's a way to justify 34:20 your voice over because voiceover in film is really really hard because a lot of times people are like where is this 34:27 voice coming from from why are we hearing it it's done really good in movies and it's done really bad in movies Good Fellas is probably one of 34:33 the best examples of it in this movie it's a way to explain a explain away why 34:39 we're listening to Tom Cruz explain things and a lot of times people criticize voice over because it tells 34:46 instead of shows it does help explain some beats of the film where you're already looking at two plus film you 34:52 could have easily made this into a miniseries eight episode miniseries this could easily been dragged out the 34:57 character developments were very well done and speaking of character developments let's just say I've said this before about every episode I've 35:03 done of Ed so far or his movies that I've reviewed so far for this podcast he does a great job of handling and guiding 35:11 the viewer into everyone's character like there's no character in this film where you don't really feel something 35:16 whether it's the emperor's son not the emperor son sorry the um Samurai leader but he wasn't the emperor Ken wand's uh 35:23 his own son and then the emperor himself I should say all these characters and then the ones that were trying to 35:29 manipulate the Japanese emperor every one of these characters you kind of sensed in a very brief scenes their 35:35 whole characters how they are almost like what they're doing off screen like every time they were shown again you 35:41 weren't jostled I remembered you from the previous scene Ed I think it's got to be him because it's now it's film 35:47 after film after film with Ed zck directing where I as a viewer I'm not lost not only am I not lost with who 35:54 these characters are they're all so uniquely shown and developed I understand what's going on I'm not lost 36:00 and my kids aren't lost by who these characters are you're invested whether it's good or bad or even indiff you know 36:05 who they are the one character that comes to mind that the kids just fell in love with right away Japanese guard 36:11 Samurai guard that he had fallen around his name was Bob remember Tom Cruz says I'm GNA call you Bob because he didn't 36:16 want to give his name he wouldn't tell him his name I just realized I've been remiss 36:22 forgive me I have yet to thank you for looking out for me yesterday 36:28 that is your job correct protecting me well done 36:34 Bob you don't mind if I call you Bob do you know Bob once God he was ugly as a 36:42 mu you ladies man Bob and my kids of course called him Bob throughout the film and they knew that Bob was going to 36:50 die and so when even when Bob dies in the final battle they're like oh no not Bob the kids were invested in Bob who 36:56 barely had any line but he was a side character that even my kids were following they were invested in this 37:02 storyline of Bob The Bodyguard who follow Tom Cruiser around it's a matter of just giving enough information to 37:10 make a character memorable it's almost like working with a template or something it definitely seems like that 37:16 is something that zwick is very very good at okay so the next character we have of note of course was Tony Goldwin 37:22 when his character came out so of course we all know Tony Goldwin wasn't he the bad guy in ghost he was the bad guy and ghost he was also the bad guy in that 37:30 Arnold Schwarzenegger classic the sixth day and I say classic tongue and cheek some people have that face I know bad 37:37 person yeah he also made his debut and uh because I've just watched them all recently uh in like one of the Friday 37:45 the 13th movies part six or seven yeah and also he was the voice of Tarzan and 37:50 Disney's Tarzan which there you go he played a good guy there at least he kind of has that face where you kind of cast 37:56 him as the bad guy and there's that great scene between him and Tom Cruz's 38:02 character where he's like oh you're alive they have a little face to face and then Tom Cruz is like on the 38:07 battlefield I'm going to look for you first good 38:14 God sir the Imperial Army of Japan demands Your Surrender if you and your 38:19 fellows laid on your arms you will not be harm this is not possible as mrla 38:25 knows captain we will show you no quarter you ride 38:31 against us and you were the same as they are I'll look for you on the 38:37 field that's great movie making you know what going to happen but still it's that moment he says what he's going to do and 38:43 then he does it well Tony Goldwin he's a he's a good actor and I think you're 38:48 right I mean he's sort of able to lean into sure playing a certain type and embrace it it gives you a career you 38:55 know he's made a career out of it you look at his filmograph feed and a lot of the roles especially on film seem to be kind of the the creep or the bad guy but 39:03 he does play Da Nicholas Baxter on law in order right now so apparently if you're a DA you're probably quote 39:08 unquote the good guy so there you go but it was also an Oppenheimer which uh is my least favorite worst of the best 39:14 podcast episode right now my least favorite Christopher Nolan film is Oppenheimer I I haven't seen Oppenheimer 39:19 it's boring it's been in my que to watch sorry I know people are G get so mad at me for saying that it's almost like you 39:25 can't say that it took me like six it's a three-hour film so I literally watched it like 15 to 20 minutes at a time I was 39:32 like watching it like documentary style I'm going to watch 20 minutes now 20 minutes tomorrow and maybe people say 39:37 well that's why Ryan well no I just watched this two and a half hour movie with my kids we weren't bored one second so I'm sorry oppenheimer's boring Last 39:44 Samurai not boring I don't I don't know what to tell you like I'm being truthful like people get mad at you for being 39:49 truthful I'm sorry maybe you put Tom Cruz at up aimer I'm not even joking there might have been some life in that 39:54 film okay now we're gonna get to the top two now I don't know how to say his name very well I'm sorry but it is Ken 40:01 Watanabe did I get that right wab wab I think it's right W I like that better so 40:07 I apologize to Mr Ken I'm just gonna call him Ken I'm sorry now you might find this interesting Craig you might 40:13 have know this or listeners might find this interesting this was his first English-speaking role wow I did not know 40:19 that and he was nominated for an Oscar he was nominated for an Oscar good for him and did you know this too that the 40:25 Japanese he owed some money he was basically the Tom Cruz of Japan yeah so 40:32 he's a big actor in Japan what's the name of the gang the main gangu yeah he 40:38 owed money to them and I forget why but apparently he was on the hook for some money to some corrupt people for 40:45 something I don't know what he didn't do anything corrupt himself but he he got tangled up in some sort of debt and to 40:51 pay off that debt he had to do a lot of garbage films in Japan and he hated doing it straight to whatever the 40:58 equivalent for Japanese film at the time for as you can see a man of his talent in this film he was like disgraced 41:04 having to do these films and I think for him to do this was just a way for him to really explode on screen it was almost 41:11 like I finally get to do a film of worth and note what did you think of Ken's job 41:16 on the film then I think he did a a good job I almost wish that he had spoken 41:22 Japanese through the whole movie because as good of a job as he did there were still points where you struggle to sort 41:29 of grasp what what he was saying in English you didn't have the captions on well the subtitles came out when when 41:36 Japanese but and I don't have captions on my films all I hear is I'm not even 41:41 joking our family all watches captions that's the only thing I hate about going to the theater it's like for example I saw Dune 2 in the theater incredible 41:48 film Amazing film I can't wait for the third film it's going to happen I can't wait so I'm watching Dune in the theater 41:54 the whole time is like I don't know what one thing was said I go home and I watch it streaming I just watched it like 42:00 recently like a month ago on I felt like it's a new film I don't know how much dialogue people Miss without capture 42:06 that's just you know what I wonder if it's still a thing because we don't really go to the movies much anymore but there used to be something they had 42:13 called like I think it was open they still have it for people if you're hearing impaired or you can pretend to 42:18 be hearing impaired it's like a little Mir your glasses and the captions are on the glasses every once in a while when I 42:24 went to the movies with my dad who's got some hearing issu shes there would be like a mirror that would be like right 42:30 in front of your seat that I guess be it would pick up oh a mirror s that's right I've never done it before but I just uh 42:36 I don't go to theaters for a couple reasons now one because the movie Just it has to be worth it because they're so expensive Dune was a film that was worth 42:42 it I find I just get more of the dialog so maybe that would have helped you if you had the English captions on because 42:48 you're right his accent was heavy and the captions saved us yeah he's a good 42:53 actor he's a one of those actors that's able to emote do a lot with his face do 42:58 a lot with his eyes every moment in that film feels earned especially the ending 43:05 the only thing I will say and this will probably dovetail into the rest of the conversation is why not Tom Cruz as well 43:12 do to do what meaning get nominated for an Oscar like I mean well yeah we'll get to that just put a bow on on Ken here he 43:19 his last film rle was a couple years ago the Creator did you ever see that one that's a sci-fi movie right yeah it was 43:25 on Apple TV I think it went to Apple it's a sci-fi movie though right it's a little rough it's another one where it 43:32 looks better than it it's frustrating because it it's a oddly boring good-looking film but he did a great job 43:38 in his role in that film I really enjoyed kenon this of course he was in Batman Begins letters of viima quite a 43:44 few films since this time but he seems like he's kind of gone back to doing TV roles but probably better roles from now 43:51 in his later years in back back in Japan so he's doing that again yeah I thought 43:56 he did great I think nominating him I think it was generous I don't think it was unwarranted I'd have to see who he 44:01 was up against at that time CU I don't think it was unwarranted but I think he did an amazing job now did you know that 44:07 he was Lord moris suo katsumoto yeah now he wasn't quote unquote The Last Samurai 44:13 did you know that the Last Samurai isn't a person but it is the group of Samurai I was thinking about the title of the 44:19 movie it's so funny that you mention that because at first glance if you pick up the Blu-ray on the Shelf at the store 44:24 you're like oh this is another sort of whitewashing Tom Cruz is The Last 44:30 Samurai but then after watching the movie there is no specific person it's the end of an era end of a line of 44:37 thinking or a a generation or whatever you want to call it so yeah yeah now it's a little trickery with the words I 44:44 will say they do call it the Last Samurai but we know it's pluralized Samurai is the same plural as it's a bit 44:50 of a trickery by doing that because you have the Last of the Mohicans right so 44:57 know it's not the last moans they kind of Fooly a little bit they wanted almost think is it Tom Cruz is it the white guy 45:03 is he The Last Samurai because in theory spoil alert everyone gets wiped out but 45:08 Tom okay so it's a little bit of Tom does not get killed in this film he has a no kill Clause I swear in his films 45:15 you know what the last film was that he was killed in the Vampire movie he did was he killed in that I don't 45:21 know I don't think no he's not killed he's leet oh collateral was he killed in that one he dies in collateral yeah 45:28 that's right he does so he doesn't die often it's kind of a joke it's not really he doesn't really have no death claws I say that kind of jokingly so 45:35 what was the other movie uh Young Guns part part one he's not even credited in 45:40 that movie he has an uncredited Cameo you can actually see it on YouTube I'm a huge Young Guns nerd I know exactly 45:46 where it is but he was visiting his good friend emili Oz on set and they they shot him another amazing 4K by the way I 45:52 got to get it I know there's you know who directed Young Guns the director doesn't really matter it's I forget the name sorry if I saw the name like in a 45:59 multiple well Dean Kane's dad that's right the actor Dean Kane who played 46:04 Superman Rand Lois his dad was I guess a a director like a journeyman director but until I watched this for the when I 46:11 when I got the 4K a couple months ago I was like I had no idea that was Dean Kane's dad but yeah oh I freaking love 46:17 that film oh that's such a good film okay let's get to it Tom Cruz we have been teasing Tom even Ed has been 46:24 teasing Tom in some of his audio portions of the book that we've shared so far Tom Cruz this is the first Tom Cruz film that I've ever really reviewed 46:32 on any kind of podcast I'm a Tom Cruz fan I like what he does on film the guy 46:37 can act he gives it his all and it translates to what you see on screen and my son's a Tom Cruz fan like I said and 46:44 I didn't push that on him he naturally became a Tom Cruz fan because it started with the amission impossible films but 46:49 other films I've shown him with Tom he is a movie star and maybe one of the 46:54 last movie stars we have abely absolutely and I think on my mission impossible episode with Doug for the the 47:01 goat we talked about it and I don't remember if I edited it out or not but I've always been of the opinion that 47:08 regardless of how you feel about Tom Cruz personally when it comes to movies 47:13 you're never gonna walk away from a Tom Cruz movie saying that was his paycheck movie you can watch any other actor a 47:21 lot of them will tell you it's a paycheck movie but Nick Cage is a great example Nick Cage does paycheck movies 47:27 he's still capable of doing great work but you can tell the movies that he didn't give a [ __ ] about it he showed up 47:32 Bruce Willis is the entire end of his career were Pat 25 films it's 25 to 40 47:38 films yeah but Tom Cruz you cannot say that with there's no movie when Tom Cruz 47:43 signs on to your movie either a movie that he's developed or he's brought in to you're never going to walk away from 47:50 it saying he phoned it in or he didn't give a [ __ ] or he took the paycheck his work ethic is there but there's a reason 47:56 why he utilizes that work ethic into his films I'm going to spoil it because I just want to tell you but Ed's going to 48:03 tell us too because he loves movies the way someone would love motorcycles or 48:09 loves fly fishing or whatever it is not only does he love movies he wants you 48:15 you to love movies to love movies too so he has a thing that Ed will talk about 48:20 and the clips we're going to play at the end here about Tom his work ethic he talked about somebody else um yeah James 48:26 Cameron ironically two people that are very polarizing personalities with the public and within the industry 48:32 ironically but you can never say James dials it in he can never say James 48:38 Cameron phones it in with a movie he gives it as all whether you like the film or not you're not walking away 48:43 thinking that was a subpar effort so there's a reason because they both love movies and the 48:49 film and they have an idea like they're able to say I'm in this film what is it 48:54 that I'm doing that the person the seat will experience and they try to present that to the viewer while they're filming 49:01 and making the film since we're both such big fans it's probably a good time to bring up I think another good example 49:07 of this at least for a window of his career Stallone was really good at this too and I think a great example is First 49:14 Blood where famously it wasn't an ego thing but he knew that the character of 49:22 John Rambo as written in the book If you translated to that screen would not get 49:27 the audience sympathy so that was a case of somebody knowing how to deliver a 49:33 character to an audience it takes I think a special kind of person to do that and a lot of times you do have to 49:39 sort of set your ego aside because sometimes the right decision for the movie might not be the right decision 49:45 for you so you brought up a great question I think we both know the answer and I'm not afraid to say because I'm not in the industry I'm not going to 49:51 Rattle any cages yeah Tom Cruz the ever elusive never will get an Oscar I I 49:57 don't know what it is it's he's kind of like well speaking of Stallone he is like the actor that's not that Stallone 50:03 wishes you could be I don't mean like that but I mean the same way Stallone for different reasons is sort of slided by the academy so when he does a film 50:09 like Copland or or even when he did Creed like he was nominated but you know he'll never win because because when you 50:15 have somebody like Stone who's a self-made half billionaire because of what he's created on his own Empire Tom 50:22 is the same thing he's created his own Empire of films people in the industry hate that they're jealous because a they 50:28 don't have the money or the power that Tom has he keeps showing up and keeps producing entertainment that people like 50:35 the public loves and they hate that Tom Cruz does a film with Japanese actors and characters about Samurai where's a 50:42 frecking samurai uniform he doesn't look stupid doing it he doesn't look like he's culture appropriating we want to 50:48 say that he is but he isn't because it's done so well between the director the writing and the acting people get mad at 50:53 that or speaking of which the Rotten Tomato score or the critic score for this film is 55 freaking percent to the 51:00 audience score of 80 what the freak does that tell you that's political that has nothing to do with the film they're 51:07 looking at objectively because of his Scientology or whatever it is because it's Tom Cruz it's a Tom Cruz hate train 51:12 which I can't stand yeah the film is good you're lowering the film's score 51:18 why why is the audience walking out giv an a to an A+ rating but critics are 51:23 like 55% rating sorry that's my rant but I think it's ridiculous and it's very 51:29 biased I can't stand this kind of stuff this is why I hate the media I don't have many tinfoil hat conspiracies but 51:36 one tinfoil hat conspiracy I have is I don't know at what point it's going to 51:42 happen if ever but down the road maybe after we're all long gone it'll come out 51:48 that Tom Cruz and his relationship to Scientology was another gig was another 51:55 acting gig and he was paid for whatever reason to 52:00 support Scientology now you could argue that that makes him a shitty person 52:06 because of what Scientology does to families and to people and I don't know 52:13 if that's me trying to justify in my head why he's understand it's complicated it's 52:19 comp it's a complicated relationship that I have with him as a fan of his work borrowing him like literally 52:24 getting caught with a child I mean Ser so he is involved in an organization 52:31 that's caused harm to people but my challenge to everyone is when they do that then you cannot like any actor 52:37 that's a Catholic is every Catholic actor and trust me there's a lot of actors and actresses and artists that 52:42 are associated with Catholicism yeah so now do we hate all of them or any any 52:48 Christian faith that the Christian Crusades people like how far back do we go where we keep saying like the sins of 52:54 the religion are the sins of the members the other funny thing is no matter who 53:00 it is with maybe the exception of Tom Hanks if you peel that onion back enough you're gonna find something to be 53:06 outraged with about them sure we're all humans look at me yeah don't look at me 53:12 I'm just not the thing is I'm not a celebrity but if I was but nobody is infallible we're that's part of being 53:18 human is we all have aspects of our character that could potentially turn us off to other people of course before you 53:26 take moral High Ground on anything like you need to really step back and say are you really in a position to judge this 53:33 person or are you just trying to um what do they call it virtue signal there's a 53:39 lot of virtue signaling and I totally agree with you and this even goes into politics and all that stuff and I'm not 53:44 going to say anything about like people I'm just saying it's just amazing where you get these people on their I hate the 53:49 term keyboard Warrior but the sense of people online or on the key they'll point the finger of scorn at celebrities 53:57 just don't go to their films you just you don't just don't buy their music you don't like Taylor Swift just don't buy her stuff you don't have to shame her 54:03 you don't have to call disparaging things about her uh or same with Beyonce or or Tom Cruz or Tom Hanks or any just 54:10 just don't go to their films you just don't have to go it's not a big deal like you know it's really weird that people get so they want to tear down 54:17 these celebrity Heroes I know that's a weird human I don't know if Nature's the right word but the idea that see our 54:23 heroes fall is a real thing there's a reason why that term exists because there seems to be some sort of mob 54:28 mentality Glee to see people fail and fall yeah that's part of the the deal 54:34 you sign to be a multi-millionaire and be a celebrities is unfortunately For Better or For Worse yeah we we're going 54:40 to know what your favorite flavor of ice cream is and we're might we might know your bedroom activity at the same time yeah I think a great illustration of Tom 54:48 Cruz's passion for film is that Outburst he had during I believe it was when they 54:53 were filming top gun Maverick during Co during there were very serious restrictions yeah time yeah there was 54:59 yeah and I think there was a clip I believe the clip on set was somebody had broken protocol they broke the rules it 55:05 was visible and Tom like and basically him unleashing saying Hey listen you're 55:10 gonna [ __ ] with hundreds of people's livelihoods here yes cut that [ __ ] out 55:16 that's a great example of a a celebrity freakout where you put that in contrast 55:21 to like the Christian Bale uh freak out and it still makes me kind of he's like 55:26 he walked in his Li yeah the Tom Cruz one is is it's Justified top gun 55:33 Maverick people say it saved Hollywood or whatever a lot of movies have saved Hollywood Deadpool and Wolverine saved 55:38 it recently well saved Marvel is what that one did yeah yeah but I mean he put his ass on the line and yeah a lot of 55:45 filmmakers won't do that I think at the end of the day he he is probably our 55:50 last true movie star I think so and I will say this I know people might be listening who disagree with me and 55:55 that's fine I'm just saying I enjoy his films his personal activities outside of 56:00 criminal I'm talking about truly criminal behavior that he himself has done show me the receipts I'll look into it I I seriously will it's complicated I 56:09 think he's a great movie star and barring anything in like actual criminal especially with children at this point I'm enjoying his films and uh well it's 56:17 funny because I think you mentioned children I don't believe he has a relationship with his daughter it's complicated that's thing at the end of 56:23 the day like you're saying he's also just a human being yeah does he have problems with his marriages and Ex-Wives 56:28 and kids yeah so should we hate him you know how many co-workers I work with that are either children or the products 56:35 of divorce and broken marriages and homes I work with I'm in the military how many do you think I work with do I hate them all because they're divorce a 56:41 well no that's ridiculous and they have complicated relationships with their Ex-Wives and their children as as men and women but there's not celebrities 56:50 that's all they're just not multi-millionaire celebrities they're just humans with complicated marriages and exes so is Tom Cruz yeah he's so now 56:56 Dave Gro like everyone's got some issues man but doesn't mean Dave Gro doesn't have a good rock song it just means he stepped out on his wife and he's got to 57:03 work out with his wife now but he can still listen to his rock song He's not an evil person he just yeah he's just paying the consequences complicated 57:09 person but I like it I like the discussion let's get into what Ed has to say about the film I really wanted to read his book before we sat down and I 57:16 just hadn't had a chance but we I'm kind of G the Snippets for the uh the podcast and I want to say I don't give 57:21 everything off I usually just keep the clips that are talking more or less about the actors he does good to some of 57:26 the behind the scenes of um how the film was made some of the hiccups it's 57:31 amazing even that eck's time and even having Tom on this project how the movie 57:36 company gets her pot like just get out of her way all right so the first clip U 57:41 just goes into Ed's second attempt at sending the script to Tom he was so 57:47 excited to have this script and he always had Tom Cruz in mind to play the role of Nathan algren he sent a rough 57:55 quick draft to Tom and it's like doing a podcast and your first episode isn't 58:00 that great but you're so excited to get a podcast out there people listen to the first episode and I have that feeling with my first Rocky series podcast 58:07 golden in the distance the first few episodes are horrible maybe the first year is horrible and I wish I could go 58:12 back in time with the knowledge I have now about podcasting and how to podcast I think that racial of listeners 58:17 quitting at the first episode probably wouldn't have been as high because a lot of people listen to the first one like really this guy can pocket no I can't 58:23 not then maybe I can't now but I think the ratio is lowered now with other projects I've done because you learn so 58:29 Ed's no different he sent out a podcast sorry he sent out he sent out a script 58:34 quickly to Tom but it wasn't ready Tom goes no thanks so he rewrote it after like almost half a year or a year with 58:40 John Logan the two of them working on together and this that's the story of his second attempt here me and sending 58:45 it to Tom Cruz again along with the note I had written to accompany it Tom read 58:50 it a week later and said he wanted to meet I met with Tom in a house he was renting in Beverly Hills to this day he 58:58 claims I was so excited about the movie I was jumping around the living room as I demonstrated the few sword cut I'd 59:04 learned in my reading I know I brought along all sorts of research 19th century 59:09 tinted photographs of samurai in full armor enchanting Japanese prints of Village Life Snippets of Cavalry 59:16 officers Diaries it's possible I even brought him a replica of a katana a 59:21 samurai sword Shameless as it sounds we launched into a conversation about the 59:27 script he was full of ideas challenging parts of the story embellishing others 59:33 he wanted to discuss what he would need to learn Zen in the way of the warrior Japanese Customs the Tea Ceremony the 59:41 nature of ephemera and the notion of a good death it was my first glimpse into 59:46 why Tom's career has not just had commercial success but also such remarkable longevity when Tom's on board 59:53 yeah what do I have to learn what do I have to know what like Japanese meditation sword fighting what do I have 59:59 to know he mentions Tom describing him being very animated in that 17 minute 1:00:06 sitdown with the two of them on the Blu-ray Tom brings that up oh really so that's pretty funny oh cool okay 1:00:12 interesting I'm GNA have to well I'm going have to buy the Blu-ray I guess but I bet you that clips on YouTube somewhere I'll check as an Arden student 1:00:18 of movies he would watch at least one a night so there you go the add remembers that he was an Ardent student of movies 1:00:25 and Tom watch at least one a night it's insane mhm this has given him a kind of 1:00:30 Second Sight the ability to see a movie from the audience's point of view know 1:00:35 what they're thinking and feeling whether they're ahead of the plot how to understand and toy with their 1:00:42 expectations Tom has what I've often seen in other stars a stomach brain it's 1:00:48 interesting yeah I I understand that analogy something either tastes right to him or it doesn't and he trusts those 1:00:55 instincts utterly what struck me most after I got to know him was his insatiable appetite to keep improving 1:01:02 after his breakout performance in Risky Business rather than Place himself alone above the title he turned his movies 1:01:09 into opportunities for a kind of paid Apprentice ship playing opposite Paul Newman Dustin Hoffman Robert Duval and 1:01:18 being directed by such Masters as Ridley Scott and Oliver Stone Martin scares and 1:01:23 Barry levenson in later years that list would grow to include Steven Spielberg Paul Thomas Anderson Cameron Crowe and 1:01:31 Stanley Kubrick but it's interesting to bring up the Palmer you're right I feel bad Ed shame on 1:01:36 you but that's why you're here Craig to said Ed straight so I appreciate that our conversation lasted for hours 1:01:43 eventually I realized it was getting dark and I worried I'd overstayed my welcome but Tom seemed game to keep 1:01:49 going I told him I had to get home and stood to leave with the force of the wrestler he'd been in high school he 1:01:55 grabbed me by the shoulders and with inimitable intensity said we're going to make a movie I just love that yeah I 1:02:03 just you could picture Tom the way he is grabs Ed's arms he held him like like a 1:02:09 wrest like he felt the strength of Tom you know like and Ed's not a very big guy he's just a small director and he's 1:02:14 like holding him he's we're GNA make a movie I just love that imagery most 1:02:20 movies that become well received or memorable have to start with 1:02:26 passion and excitement if if you're starting a project and you're not excited at the prospect of what you're 1:02:33 doing why the f are you even doing it like well said money paycheck well yeah 1:02:39 exactly I would argue that anything that truly starts with that flame or that 1:02:44 flicker of passion even if you don't ultimately enjoy what was presented on 1:02:51 screen at that point it becomes like a personal choice so the next one is I 1:02:56 call this clip the power of Tom Cruz The Last Samurai was an entirely different 1:03:02 experience the movie had a green light from the moment Tom said yes it was like the no bid Cost Plus contracts I'd heard 1:03:09 about between military contractors and the defense department a million dollars of R&D to scout locations hire 1:03:16 department heads and figure out the logistics no problem a trip to Japan to 1:03:21 do research and meet actors let us make the reservations for you you want to shoot on three continents great idea 1:03:28 that's the power he has now it's funny we talked about the academy his fellow actors essentially don't really want to 1:03:35 nominate him for his role in the film but boy do movie companies M talk man 1:03:43 yeah when Paramount I guess is a big supporter of him right now like when his movie makes the the talk on made what 1:03:48 over a billion dollars and in the theater it's a business no at the end of the day everybody who's making a movie 1:03:55 is looking at a return on their investment so I'm giving you a 100 of my dollars that I give me 120 back I want 1:04:02 yeah I want 150 back and when you find out that the movie bombs I've lost myund bucks that's the gamble I'm invested in 1:04:08 this film I'm a producer our company is giving you money and now we don't have a return of investment it's like well that 1:04:14 sucks yeah but Tom Cruz signs on to a film like Craig's got a script and I'm like oh Ry I got Tom Cruz to start my 1:04:21 independent film I'm like oh but I need a thousand bucks to get this thing going I'll get you a thousand bucks man if you 1:04:27 can promise me back double that because I think this film's going to do something you know like that's how it's done but then you say well I got this 1:04:33 noname guy same script same quality of script but you're like I got this no-name actor it's gonna be his first 1:04:38 film like GH I don't I don't know best of luck I I don't know if I can give you anything like it's that's what they're 1:04:44 saying Tom Cruz okay it's all track record what you've been proven to do right the next clip is a little bit of 1:04:50 the casting of Ken to play a part like katsumoto opposite Tom Cruz it would was 1:04:55 assumed that huki Sonata often referred to as the Tom Cruz of Japan would be cast in the role so that was my mistake 1:05:02 I apologize there was a different actor that was the Tom Cruz of Japan meeting Ken Watanabe I was so taken with his 1:05:09 blend of strength humor and emotional availability that I decided to cast him 1:05:15 I couldn't have known that after surviving a battle with leukemia years before Ken had found himself in debt to 1:05:21 Shady managers there you go that's what it was so medical bills Shady managers 1:05:28 at the time the Yakuza was heavily involved in the business to pay them off for several years he'd been obliged to 1:05:35 play whatever roles on Japanese TV came his way no matter how and inspiring and 1:05:40 it had hurt his career in our early rehearsals Ken seemed somewhat tentative 1:05:46 day by day as his self-confidence grew so did Ken's performance by the time we 1:05:51 were ready to shoot he had grown into the role owning not just his size as the character but as a leading man going 1:05:57 mono on Mano with the biggest movie star in the world yeah you wouldn't know that this was Ken's this comes through in the 1:06:03 acting and the directing and the performances but yeah you didn't feel that Ken was lower than Tom like you 1:06:11 didn't feel that with the Pres the Charisma on screen was matched and that was perfect and you needed to have that 1:06:16 you needed to have somebody who could play the quotequote last of the last of the Samurai this individual the leader 1:06:22 of The Last Samurai you needed someone like Ken's personality his Charisma all that stuff had to match 1:06:29 Tom's or else just like what's the point he didn't feel like this guy was lesser than the combination of Tom Cruz's 1:06:34 Charisma comes through in his characters you can't help it even if the character doesn't require Tom's Charisma it comes 1:06:40 out when you're a movie star and so Ken definitely match that Charisma for Charisma this next clip is Ed talking 1:06:47 about Tom Cruz already practicing sword play that night Marshall and I arrived at Tom's house for a meeting and were 1:06:54 told he was down at the tennis court we followed a winding path through the fog toward the sound of strange percussive 1:07:00 wax each accompanied by loud guttural cries below us we could barely make out 1:07:06 five spectral figures hacking away at each other with wooden swords though principal photography was still months 1:07:12 away Tom was already working out every day determined to do the scene where algren takes on four as salant in a 1:07:19 single take without a cut chanara style as in the old Samurai movies no stunt 1:07:26 man was going to play his part typical Tom is this the the scene cuz I wanted 1:07:31 to make sure we talked about this where after it happens he relives it yes my 1:07:37 wife asked me about this I couldn't come up with a good answer why is it 1:07:43 presented the way it is the why I don't know good question it's never explained 1:07:48 it's never used again throughout the film and Ed in his other films because it's my you know I'm going in order of his filmography here I think this is 1:07:55 just a two early 2000s thing I think this is a little bit of that film styling we got the coverage so we we 1:08:01 should show it yeah so I think what we're seeing is is that the character 1:08:07 Nathan algren has become so good at becoming a sword master at his time with 1:08:13 the samurai that we see him take them out but then it just replays how he got 1:08:20 there in a slow motion type way so it's kind of a weird odd replay of the events that we watched in real time I think 1:08:25 it's to add a little bit of a popcorn moment for Action fans in the theater 1:08:31 from a character standpoint it is almost like sort of like when you do a debrief after something or a postmortem or 1:08:37 whatever the only thing I could sort of say is it was like precognition but after the fact he was reliving every 1:08:44 moment to sort of maybe learn from it and see okay what could I have done 1:08:49 better here or what area can I improve on he was doing an instant post battle 1:08:54 assessment Richie did that kind of stuff it was weird though man it might be the time period it might be the I think it 1:09:00 is because it I remember thinking the exact same thing so I'm glad you brought up you the exact same page we're 1:09:05 watching this film there's nothing in the film indicates that we're going to have this type of scene the scene happens and then we never go back to 1:09:11 that ever again yeah yeah yeah it was probably just they're like wow we did this and we have all this coverage it 1:09:17 would be a shame not to show it yeah I think all this practice Tom because that's what he's practicing for I think 1:09:23 Tom was proud of it I think he probably talked to Ed like can we make this a little bit more a little bit more 1:09:29 popcorn again for the audience like I took these guys out pretty quickly if you do this in real time it's going to 1:09:35 be over very quickly but I want the audience to see just how M you know how ballet stylish just really was the 1:09:42 intricate cuts and slices and movements and blocking and yeah you need to create those couple of seconds where he isn't 1:09:48 focused and that guy gets up and tries to sneak up on him you're not filling in 1:09:54 that Gap with anything it it would look weird right it's a good scene it's like 1:09:59 having a turkey dinner a beautiful Christmas turkey dinner and someone just gives you a really yummy Subway sandwich 1:10:05 in the middle of it it's like okay I have a great dinner here but it's just an out ofpl meal in the in the midst of 1:10:10 a good meal all the same it is but there's also the guy that sneaks up on him he beheads that guy right yes he 1:10:17 does he takes off his head yeah I wanted to talk about that too because I think it was really cool because we have uh we 1:10:26 have a couple of beheadings in this movie and one that uh Nathan Witnesses 1:10:33 right but he's on like sort of on the back of the horse after he's he's uh being taken away and he sees like the 1:10:40 sort of the ceremony happening the actual moment of the beheading happens behind a tree yes that's right I'm like 1:10:47 well that's cool because we all know what's happening and then he we don't see it yeah but then we do see it later 1:10:54 on I thought again I've often acknowledged that I'm not intelligent enough sometimes to explain what's going 1:11:01 on here but there's something going on there because when Nathan beheads that 1:11:07 guy we see it you know why there's a difference the one beheading that he 1:11:12 witnessed was a samurai honorable killing the Harry KY type thing the idea that because it was Ken's character that 1:11:19 did it to his General that was the one that he was a he left the samurai to be 1:11:25 a modern Army Fighter for Japan and they fought with the samurai lost that little battle he got caught as a prisoner he 1:11:32 said to kind of redeem himself give me a Samurai's death to atone for my sins for betraying the samurai so that's why he 1:11:39 was killed that way so it's it wasn't like done out of anger or or selfdefense or it like a ceremonial that's right 1:11:47 reverence because Ken talks about that to Tom's character later says you know you saw this but you don't understand 1:11:53 the way of our people you see this brutality it's beheading might be very brutal to you the Westerner to see but 1:11:58 for us this is actually that was his desire and that was an honor for me to do that to him and what do you want to 1:12:06 know my enemy I've seen what you do to your enemies the Warriors in your country do 1:12:14 not kill they don't cut the heads off defeated kneeling men General hwa asked me to help him end 1:12:21 his life a samurai cannot stand the shame of defeat 1:12:26 I was honored to cut off his head many of our customs seem strange to you the 1:12:33 same is true of yours for example not to introduce yourself is considered 1:12:39 extremely rude even among enemies but for Nathan's play by Tom of course for 1:12:45 his fight against those five guys that beheading was just like yeah this is 1:12:50 combative finality there's no like I'm fighting to survive and just the head chopping there was more again for the 1:12:57 action sequence like there's no honor and that those people were not fighting out of Honor there a different kind of 1:13:03 battle this was not an honor killing this was a yeah battle killing that's what I love about really well-made films 1:13:09 is there's in that case there's some kind of Duality going on there like I said sometimes I might not be able to figure it out but I can at least 1:13:16 acknowledge that there was an intent there and I think you just actually probably explained it a little bit in 1:13:22 terms of why we approach that that way but it was definitely something I noticed and responded to nice I'm glad I 1:13:29 said something smart on the show for once all right the next uh the next scene is some more more praise for Ken I 1:13:37 was especially pleased as Ken's sense of humor began to inform his performance over the course of a taxing 1:13:43 shoot that quality would prove to be a Saving Grace he is one of the most delightful Soulful men I've ever met 1:13:51 High Praise Yeah we actually get to see a little of that comedy and sort of that that definitely that stage play that 1:13:57 they do right before the ninjas attack and by the way it's a testament of this movie that we've talked about a lot of 1:14:03 the awesome stuff in this movie and we didn't talk about the fact that there's a whole sequence that is ninja vers 1:14:09 Samurai like I know you're right there is a whole battle sequence between ninja 1:14:14 versus Samurai yeah yeah very cool and that that's right so the ninjas aren't honorable the they hide in the dark 1:14:20 they're they they're assassins whereas the samurai fight in the open they fight for cold and honor and all that stuff 1:14:26 the ninja are they're evil compared to the Samurai's way of living yeah for sure just how good the film looked do 1:14:32 you want to talk about just how the film generally just looked I I love the cinematography I felt like I was in 1:14:38 Japan even though it was filmed in New Zealand I loved that scenery the Farms the lands the house the little Community 1:14:44 I wanted to live there with Nathan didn't you want to go back and live there absolutely it's presented in that true widc screen format that 1:14:51 2351 uh which is that sort of very very wide aspect 1:14:56 ratio the production design no I mean you can tell that whatever money was spent on this film is up on the screen 1:15:03 we forgot to mention the Ages Tom Cruz was 41 at the time of this film Ken was 1:15:09 44 and we didn't mention the actor Timothy Spa we did a little bit who plays Simon Graham he was 46 at the time 1:15:14 of this film yeah he looked every 46 years of his age he did look he was he 1:15:19 was 46 correct me if I'm wrong my kids recognized him funny enough they go that's the mouse guy from Harry Potter 1:15:25 or whatever yeah I actually know him from Almost Famous was he Almost Famous 1:15:32 I don't know I I've seen that film but I Kate Hudson in that film too yes she was yeah that's the only two actors I can 1:15:37 remember from that film with top My Head Jason Lee oh of course yeah right yeah yeah yeah but either way talk about Kev 1:15:44 Crow let's talk let's talk about another director I'm just joking Timothy's fall was like early 2000s he was doing a lot 1:15:52 and it's funny uh a friend of mine he um recently was promoting I think a a 1:15:59 home video release of uh that one of his friends had worked on that was like an early Timothy Spa movie like 85 or 1:16:07 something and I was like and I replied I was like oh my god I've never seen a young Timothy's fall before yeah and it 1:16:14 was wild to sort of see like a 20-year-old Timothy fall he's a good actor oh he's fine he did a great job 1:16:20 yeah so I mean he did a great job as the kind of the bumbling journalist who kind of 1:16:25 seems not say lazy but he's kind of content to stay out of trouble but he ends up being kind of very involved he helps with the Escape of the of Ken's 1:16:33 character later in the film so you know he he has that redeeming Arc to to his own character yeah he was either an 1:16:39 Almost Famous or Rockstar the Mary Mark movie that was kind of like the Judas 1:16:44 PRI story I actually like that film I don't know I loved Rockstar man that was another one I saw in theaters it came 1:16:50 out like a week before 911 what happened 9/11 what was that you 1:16:56 that yeah he was in rockar you're right okay so yeah he wasn't an Almost Famous but there is somebody in Almost Famous 1:17:02 that is very Timothy Spa like okay no I don't see Almost Famous it was Rockstar 1:17:07 it was Rockstar that's funny okay all right moving on oh wait this next clip is when 1:17:14 they went back to LA to do some fur so they shot they shot some in Japan some in New Zealand and a lot of the stuff in 1:17:21 New Zealand actually for the Japan uh scenery they then of course did shots in 1:17:26 La at the Sound Studio okay I was wondering what that third continent was it was La yeah yeah okay and there were 1:17:33 some visitors when Tom Cruz came back on the first day of shooting in Burbank I happened to glance behind me and see 1:17:39 Steven Spielberg moments later David Fincher appeared and then Cameron Crowe 1:17:45 how coincidental that they'd all just happened to be on the lot that day I would later discover each was courting 1:17:51 Tom to be in their movies and this was a chance to get a bit of f FaceTime I will confess to being the tiniest bit 1:17:58 self-conscious giving Direction with that intimidating Trio on my six as they say in top gon but their visit prompted 1:18:06 an oddly charming and very revealing reaction from Tom while Fincher Crow 1:18:11 Marshall and I were chatting behind my chair the still photographer asked if he could take a picture Tom must have been 1:18:18 with Spielberg at the time but when he heard about it he asked for a copy and had himself photoshopped into the shop 1:18:25 apparently even movie stars have fomo that's funny the only one that was 1:18:30 successful there was Spielberg right that was probably he was probably courting him for War of the Worlds War 1:18:36 of the Worlds would have been after yeah well cam Crow was Jerry well they did Jerry Maguire which was years earlier 1:18:43 but maybe they were talking about a different film maybe yeah and David Fincher they never worked together that would have been an interesting 1:18:48 collaboration David Fincher and Tom yeah um it's unfortunate Stephen Tom they 1:18:54 fell out what they made three movies together yeah it was the oh cro Vanilla Sky as well so I guess he was looking 1:19:01 for a third film with Tom uh but that being said I was it was Tom's fault 1:19:06 according to and I kind of I understand but he got a little bit too it was too much with the ktie Holmes Scientology 1:19:12 thing it was it was he's calmed down about like you don't hear Tom talk about no it's funny there could have been that 1:19:19 he had a couple of career ending moments jumping on the couch on Oprah like there was that very small window where he was 1:19:25 entering like Charlie Sheen territory yeah getting all excited on camera about scientology it's been memd and stuff I 1:19:32 get it like it's been mify but the last 15 years I would say it's damage control that's fine it's his right as you know 1:19:39 but his PR team has worked in overtime but you don't hear any other than you know he's a member of Scientology I 1:19:45 haven't seen any new clips or any kind of like and he doesn't bring a set anymore like I don't think it's ever brought up at Mission possible sets or 1:19:51 anything like that but it was brought up at that I think it was the war of the world movie where cuz minority Port was first then it was War of the Worlds he 1:19:58 had a pavilion or something set up on and Spielberg is like that's too much it's enough I didn't realize they had a 1:20:04 falling out yeah they also have a connection through Stanley kubric Tom and Nicole worked on Kubrick's last film 1:20:12 but then also Spielberg made one of Kubrick's unmade 1:20:18 films which was AI which I thought a great film yeah it's different but I saw 1:20:23 in the theaters I own it on DVD and I watched it quite I would have Lov to watch that one again that's an interesting one okay and anxiety 1:20:29 mainlining Peanut M&M's at the craft Services table when Tom ambled up he 1:20:34 greeted me with his usual pppe how's it going I wasn't in a mood to respond in 1:20:40 kind I don't know I moaned Ed just had a big hiccup with the production 1:20:46 essentially he got some really bad news that's in his Audi book explains everything so he's just kind of like not 1:20:52 in a proper head space he's like right now so but Tom comes up with this normal how you doing there red type thing and 1:20:58 that's what's Happening Here the sequence isn't really working those stupid guns are killing us we're already 1:21:03 behind and I'm worried we're going to have to come back and re-shoot at least half of it he listened as I went on then 1:21:09 he looked off into the night H that was all he said before touching my shoulder 1:21:15 and walking away I stood there confused couldn't he tell that I was upset had he 1:21:21 been in this situation so many times that he just took it and St it was then that I began to realize the 1:21:27 gulf between my experience and Tom's No matter how many movies I'd made until then no matter how many battles I'd had 1:21:34 with Studios or times I'd gone over schedule there was still some part of me that needed to be a good 1:21:40 boy when I ran into Marshall I recounted my non-con conversation with Tom 1:21:46 Marshall smiled and said he knows there's not going to be a card in the credits that says this movie was made on 1:21:52 schedule he touched my shoulder exactly the way Tom had done and headed back to the set later that night as I was 1:21:59 setting up a shot Cruz was passing by and stopped how you doing boss better I 1:22:05 said good good you know what we get to do tonight what make a movie that's 1:22:13 great forgive me if I missed it who is this Marshall he keeps meing that's that's been his partner for decades they 1:22:19 did 30 something together he's a collaborator throughout the years close friend and collaborator yeah yeah so so 1:22:25 Marshall was a producer on this film too but I love how there's G to be no credit where it says this film was filmed on 1:22:31 time or not like just make the movie Tom comes back how we doing there red you know we get to do today we get to make a 1:22:37 movie that's don't you want that for your boss someone who's like hey let's get down to business let's have fun let's work hard but guys we're making a 1:22:44 movie like yep it's a blessed life guys let's keep ourselves focused here if you're having a bad day remember we're 1:22:50 making a movie like this is not a bad gig this next clip is just more talk about the cast as he walked away I 1:22:57 realized I'd missed the subtext of our earlier interaction it had been Tom's non-confrontational Way of reminding me 1:23:03 I was the director and the directing was a samurai job all right soor that was the last bit 1:23:10 of that I forgot about that but that's great great way to cap that off okay now on to the cast in addition to the Japanese cast I had hired Tony Goldwin 1:23:17 as Colonel Bagley algren's former Superior officer in the seventh Cavalry Tony a talented director himself was a 1:23:24 joy to be with onset and off while Billy was irrepressibly funny in the way I 1:23:30 imagined working with Robin Williams must have been at times I literally had to beg him to stop making us laugh so we 1:23:36 could get back to work Ken waan Abi's commanding performance continued to Thrill Me While I came to count on 1:23:43 sonata's vast experience in martial arts known as Satan wuk pardon my 1:23:49 pronunciation literally reach beyond the Blue Sky to help me stage to the many fighting 1:23:55 scenes kyuki the actress playing the role of taka algren's reluctant host was 1:24:01 the greatest Revelation her understanding of period Behavior was expressed with exquisite Simplicity and 1:24:08 elevated every scene she was amazing playing the Widow that Tom Cruz created 1:24:13 his character created and their relationship was done it's a Trope I know but of course they fall in love 1:24:18 he's going to go live with her in the family at the end that's fine I'm fine with that eding don't get me wrong but lovely actress she really carried the 1:24:25 role of kind of like get this guy out of my house to the brother to you know fall in love with him herself she handled 1:24:31 that role very well it always felt like it wor throat it wasn't overt and it wasn't you know sometimes performances 1:24:36 like that could be like two on the nose there was a subtlety to her performance but I do want to point out that little 1:24:42 kid and and I think a lot of times kid actors can be so good because they're 1:24:48 pretending and a lot of people forget how to pretend as they get older and that's why a lot of kid actors don't 1:24:53 grow up to be great adult actors but this little kid man like that scene where he the tear comes down I don't 1:25:00 know if that was movie Magic or if he really generated that tier but either way he was great and there's I think 1:25:07 there's two key scenes the one where he has that tier where he says he doesn't want him to go but then there's that 1:25:13 other scene they have on the porch where they talk about fear in battle Nathan sort of says every time I was out there 1:25:20 I I'm afraid that kid stood toe-to-toe with Cruz in both of those scenes I have no idea what that kid went on to do in 1:25:27 that movie he did his job and he did it well you know how they got that tear down his face they whipped him just like 1:25:34 they did Denzel if I'm remembering the scene correctly I think it had to be a real 1:25:41 tier because it's a wide shot and there's no cut it like the tier just 1:25:47 comes down I'd imagine the kid was imagining like his dog being you know taken away or not getting ice cream or 1:25:54 something but either way good job and and I wanted to acknowledge it and and also I wanted to pinpoint the the great 1:26:00 that great scene where it was you know Nathan taking on the fatherly role there 1:26:06 yeah and teaching a lesson to that kid that his dad should have been able to 1:26:11 teach him yeah well well said with Tom was joyous challenging and exhausting 1:26:19 his energy was intimidating it may sound surprising but the one formative 1:26:24 experience we had in common was that we both had wrestled in high school like all wrestlers we shared a tolerance for 1:26:31 hard work and Punishment Tom was in every scene for 120 shooting days yet he never showed 1:26:38 the slightest sign of fatigue not even after getting the [ __ ] kicked out of him by Sonata take after take in the mud and 1:26:45 pouring rain Tom likes to think of himself as being chased by a shark which 1:26:50 he means metaphorically I hope his mantro and giving notes is how can we 1:26:55 ratchet up the pressure on my character by which he means he wants a bigger shark if you listen to previous episodes 1:27:01 on this podcast feed if you haven't I'd encourage you to go back and listen to it because Ed Wick's experience with actors is quite interesting Denzel and 1:27:09 Tom I think come from the same school of hard work get the job done keep your nose to the grind and keep your nose 1:27:15 clean Tom even at a greater than Denzel to some degree of just the love of the movie making the magic of the movie 1:27:21 making the passion the's got nothing good things to say about Tom Cruz I mean do you think this is an experience that 1:27:26 old directors have with Tom what do you think I think so again and that goes hand inand with the fact that there's 1:27:34 no clear paycheck movie the one thing probably directors can take comfort in 1:27:39 when they're working with him is knowing that Tom's not going to need too much of 1:27:44 their attention there's eight million other things a director needs to worry about and Tom is one of them yeah yeah 1:27:51 absolutely probably elevates the director too and it says if you have absolutely somebody who's you're like 1:27:56 [ __ ] I have to match this intensity and also it's having an ally as as well right instead of ab you know I mean 1:28:03 you've even talked about on this show about actors that weren't really allies and were more adversaries and made the 1:28:11 process difficult oh excellent point yeah so this next clip is the scene that 1:28:17 you were talking about with Tom's character talking to the young boy on the porch and they they only had like basically a very limited amount of time 1:28:24 cuz they were using the natural sun setting sunlight you see in the film of the nighttime dust coming in so they 1:28:29 knew they had to make this shot kind of count that Tom had to show the emotion that he shows on the scene of feeling 1:28:35 the sad and the tenderness towards this child and Ed knows that Tom is intense 1:28:43 he kind of talks about how he doesn't really tell Tom how to act because whatever he tells Tom Tom will do it a 1:28:49 100 times more almost too not say too much but director's job is to know what do I have to tell this person to give 1:28:54 them to have them do what I need them to do so for Tom he doesn't really have to give him much Direction on how to act but he really wanted Tom to be tender In 1:29:02 This Moment not not too you know Tom can get kind of intense or very ah so this 1:29:08 is where Ed dials down Tom as much as he can for this shot that they have very 1:29:14 limited time on talk to me about your son I said he looked at me surprised I 1:29:20 knew Connor had just returned to LA and Tom wouldn't be seeing for a while for a 1:29:25 moment he was quiet and then he began to talk it doesn't matter what he said in 1:29:31 those few short moments of the fading light I watched as he looked Inward and a window seemed to open and his eyes 1:29:38 softened go I said gently nudging him into position on the porch he nailed the 1:29:44 scene with the depth of feeling I had loved in his best performances I should also mention his 1:29:50 Japanese pronunciation was spoton the light was gone the ad called 1:29:55 rap and as Tom walked past me on his way down the mountain he caught my eye and 1:30:01 mouthed thank you cool little moment there between director and actor about getting that actor in that moment right 1:30:06 that's what the director needs to do to get them in that moment for that scene I had no memory of Connor oh um it's funny 1:30:13 on that sit down on the Blu-ray they talk about both being fathers to Sons right and I was like did Ed make a 1:30:20 mistake there because I like only knew of the kid he had with Katie Holmes and I didn't realize that like he had a kid 1:30:26 with Nicole Kidman I just Googled it right now while we were listening to that clip last night like I said when I 1:30:31 watched that that interview I'm like oh maybe Ed just messed up um well Connor was adopted he's only had one kid 1:30:37 biologically and that's Siri with yeah yeah the other two were adopted with Nicole but still yeah I I I didn't 1:30:43 remember that and you know what that's funny that's like another sort of sign of how our media has changed because 1:30:52 probably when they adopted Connor like Paparazzi wasn't what it was and you 1:30:57 know all the attention on celebrities private lives weren't as much of a focus as you know it is now so it's just funny 1:31:04 until just now I had no idea that Conor Cruz existed or whatever last name he uses I don't know if he is no he goes by 1:31:12 Conor Cruz he's on Instagram he's a big he is an avid fisherman he has 55,000 1:31:17 follows on this he goes by Conor Cruz and which Cruz is a is a stage name though too like Tom Cruz's real name is 1:31:24 like moaar or something yeah you're right you're right maybe he's legally 1:31:29 changed it to be honest I don't know at this point I don't begrudge the guy at all I mean if why wouldn't you lean into 1:31:35 having that name so I was going down just to see when do we see a picture of daddy and son here not not that you have 1:31:41 to have tons with your dad when you're an adult but I finally got to one he posted this January of 2013 on Instagram 1:31:49 throwback Thursday watching the Yankees beat the Dodgers a couple years back with my Dad it's him and Tom Cruz there you go 1:31:57 so that was the last photo was posted 609 weeks 1:32:04 ago hey it's all right not I'm sure the still his dad I'm sure Tom takes care of 1:32:09 him I'm sure Tom takes care of him okay last clip Tom's excited again that's what I wrote here Tom had insisted on 1:32:16 being in the center of the crashing lines it was a huge risk should an 1:32:21 overzealous stunt man or a clueless EXP make a horrible misstep he could be seriously injured that morning at dawn I 1:32:29 had stopped by Tom's pain cave the trailer where he and Ken worked out in preparation for the action sequences Tom 1:32:36 had worked hard to build a rapport with Ken knowing the stronger his co-star's performance the better his would be too 1:32:43 I wanted to make sure Tom knew what he was getting himself into being in the center of that charge before I could 1:32:49 finish my Words of caution Tom grabbed Ken shoulder in one hand and and mine in the other and practically shouted in our 1:32:56 faces do you know what we get to do today Ken yelled back without hesitation 1:33:03 we get to make a movie so it tells me that's something that Tom probably said 1:33:09 more than twice if Ken could finish Toms I which is a great way to end that chapter of uh Last Samurai of the 1:33:16 infectiousness of Tom that now you have Ken finishing the sentiment we get to make a movie have you ever heard or uh 1:33:23 scene clips of Quenton Tarantino movie Set like behind the scenes yeah the reason I say that is because Tarantino 1:33:30 has a very similar there's footage from uh Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where 1:33:35 the entire crew when they're about to do probably what's going to be a complex hard day why are we doing this and then 1:33:43 everybody shouts out because we love movies you know uh perfect in my opinion 1:33:49 he's never made a bad film so what does that tell you he makes it for the audience he makes it for himself but he 1:33:54 the Quenton one of my favorite directors you've already tackled that with the director Quenton Tarantino on your show 1:33:59 you have a show called conversations at Jack Rabbit Slims I love that show and I 1:34:05 I miss you doing that by the way I I still have it in my podcast Library hoping i'll see new episode pop up well 1:34:11 it's funny uh next month is the 30th anniversary of Pulp Fiction oh there you 1:34:17 go sounds sounds like you got some work to do right well thankfully our our friend Scott has picked up the mantle 1:34:24 and done a lot of coverage that was my last guest co-host on the The Siege 1:34:29 episode where he runs a couple of podcast himself one of them is dedicated of course to Quint Tarantino the Church 1:34:35 of Tarantino isn't it and you and I are talkers I'm not surprised this is probably my longest recording I'm not 1:34:41 complaining just stating the fact Craig you and I can talk forever in a good way and I hope our audience enjoyed our 1:34:47 conversations well they better because we've got two more of these yeah if you don't like what Craig offers well if you 1:34:53 don't like what I offer I don't know why you're listening to my podcast if you don't like what Craig has offered yes unfortunately Craig will be or 1:34:59 fortunately depending what side the fence you're on I should say you'll be back again remind me let's see if I got it right uh we're doing is it pawn 1:35:06 sacrifice you're doing Pawn sacrif is that the one Pawn sacrifice and you're doing the second Tom Cruz film Jack 1:35:12 never back yeah that's gonna be an interesting one to discover and talk about because it's just completely 1:35:17 different than what we just went over so Craig tell people where they can uh find you I really don't have much of a social 1:35:24 media presence anymore uh I'm not active on any of like the Twitter like or X or 1:35:30 blue skies or anything like that I do have an Instagram which I think if you search Mr Craig Cohen Mr uh you can find 1:35:37 that uh but aside from that you can find my podcast in your favorite pod service 1:35:44 if you search the goat dep or conversations at Jack Rabbit Slims or 1:35:50 big screen book club or the sly cast you have a link tree or something like that 1:35:55 I do I will send you that Ryan and you can use that it's also got links to my music which is incredibly fulfilling 1:36:02 even though nobody listens to it it's like podcast nobody listens to it it 1:36:08 it's also got links to two video projects I did during covid which were super super fun I don't know how 1:36:14 familiar you are with these either Ryan but they're linked I did a a history of the Ramones which I kind of built like a 1:36:20 midnight movie and then I also did another one dedicated to the Beach Boys in the 1:36:26 1980s uh The Beach Boys are one of my favorite bands so looking at one of their less 1:36:32 artistically fulfilling eras was was kind of fun so uh yeah I'll send you the link to the um please it's not a link 1:36:41 tree it's like one of those the free version of Link tree sure you but you click on it if you click what's in the 1:36:48 take you to all Craig's projects fair enough yeah yeah but I appreciate that and uh casting with you is always one of 1:36:55 the highlights of my week and also getting to know you through podcasting as well has been incredible I look 1:37:03 forward to the day where we get to uh shake hands and uh and share a beverage 1:37:09 oh we'll share something else if you know what I'm saying why did I have to go like blue right at the end of this 1:37:14 we're doing so good I was so professional and I have to go Blue I'm sorry well if you come to Vegas uh 1:37:19 cannabis is legal here so we can uh share a share a a spliff or a blunt oh pH I was thinking 1:37:26 about something else my apolog okay there's a lot of stuff that's legal in Vegas though so it's right hey whatever 1:37:32 happens in Vegas stays in Vegas thanks Craig thanks a lot and we'll see you guys on the next episode Chat Replay is disabled for this Premiere.