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Federal grants will benefit some vital Grand Rapids corridors · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:11
  Jeff Cranson: Continuing with the theme began last week when I talked to Brian Travis, a project manager in MDOT's metro region, about the 696 project upcoming there and some other major work going on.
• 0:30
  Jeff Cranson: I wanted to do the same thing with MDOT's Grand Region, which is based in Grand Rapids and covers several adjoining counties.
• 0:38
  Jeff Cranson: So I spoke with Art Green, who is a veteran of the Michigan Department of Transportation and is the Transportation Service Center Manager in Grand Rapids, meaning that he oversees Kent and adjoining counties.
• 0:54
  Jeff Cranson: So, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to Art was because of a couple of grants that were announced by the Federal Highway Administration recently.
• 1:05
  Jeff Cranson: One of those is a $25 million grant to help replace the bridge on the East Beltline at the interchange with I-196 and I-96 east of the City of Grand Rapids.
• 1:20
  Jeff Cranson: Very important bridge carries a heck of a lot of traffic, important to commuters and certainly to commercial traffic and freight movement, and it'll make a major difference because of some connectivity that they're going to be able to enhance.
• 1:34
  Jeff Cranson: There are trail networks both to the north and south of that bridge and the new bridge will accommodate connections for those trails for non-motorized users.
• 1:43
  Jeff Cranson: So Art had a lot of interesting things to say about that and we also talked a little bit about what it's like to manage the system during winter in the Grand Rapids area, which gets a lot of lake effect snow and this incredible cold snap that we've had the past few days this week.
• 2:00
  Jeff Cranson: And Art has a lot of experience with this and has an interesting take because he is a native of the Upper Peninsula and talks eloquently about what it means to try to manage the maintenance during these kinds of extreme cold events when salt loses its effectiveness, and all the reasons for that.
• 2:21
  Jeff Cranson: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 2:23
  Jeff Cranson: So again, Art Green, Transportation Service Manager in Grand Rapids.
• 2:28
  Jeff Cranson: I've known Art a long time.
• 2:30
  Jeff Cranson: He's had a couple of different jobs in the Grand Region.
• 2:34
  Jeff Cranson: He's been in the Grand Region, Muskegon TSC and now in the Grand Rapids TSC.
• 2:40
  Jeff Cranson: Art, thanks for taking time to do this and before we plunge into some really important and interesting topics, talk a little about your background and you know how you came to MDOT and your time there.
• 2:53
  Jeff Cranson: I know you're a native Yuper, so you certainly know what winter's like.
• 2:59
  Art Green: Yeah, Jeff, thanks.
• 3:00
  Art Green: Thanks for having me on today.
• 3:02
  Art Green: I appreciate the opportunity for sure.
• 3:05
  Art Green: I mean my background with the department, you know, starts way back when I was actually going to college at Michigan Tech and spent my summers, then called in a co-op program I'm working in then District one and two in the UP, which was kind of split up the eastern and western half of the upper peninsula there, and worked in both of those districts in my time as an intern there.
• 3:29
  Art Green: And then, you know, after college, you know it just so happened that the department wasn't hiring and I spent about five years in a private firm here in Grand Rapids before moving into the region office, before moving into the region office, then District 5, at the very tail end of that, when TSCs were just starting to be formed Transportation Service Centers for the department.
• 3:53
  Art Green: And then I spent the last 27 years here in the Grand Region area, with a small little stint for a year a couple of years back now at the central office as the engineer in design for the department in that opportunity.
• 4:06
  Art Green: So I had a couple different roles within the Grand Rapids region.
• 4:09
  Art Green: I was one of the first cost and schedule engineers that the region had Delivered quite a few different projects in the Grand Rapids area over that time, moved my way up to the TSC manager role throughout a number of years, first being a development manager in the Grand Rapids TSC and then TSC manager after a time in that role and then spent about five years in Muskegon TSC managing that and now, of course, back here at the Grand Rapids TSC managing the office here.
• 4:41
  Art Green: So that's kind of my background managing the office here.
• 4:48
  Art Green: So that's kind of my background.
• 4:50
  Art Green: I kind of feel like everybody who moves up in the ranks, whether it's MDOT or any other state DOT, would benefit from a period of time in a transportation service center.
• 5:00
  Art Green: It seems like it's like you know, when you get to that level, it's really not about engineering anymore.
• 5:05
  Art Green: It's a lot of public relations.
• 5:06
  Art Green: It's a lot of relationship building and building trust and being responsive to the public, to lawmakers, certainly helping with the media relations, as the media relations reps work with you on those things, I sense that you probably agree.
• 5:24
  Art Green: Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 5:26
  Art Green: You know you take every experience and that all adds to the mix.
• 5:32
  Art Green: You know my years have spent in the development arena, developing jobs, you know, as a kind of a design unit leader here in the TSC when we had those and different forms of the department really taught me a lot about that relationship and developing projects and in having the context of what you're trying to deliver and make that you a human connection.
• 5:56
  Art Green: You know you're talking to folks that you know don't know a lot about transportation and all the things we have to manage financially as well as with standards and safety and those types of things and getting it over to them in that you know layman's terms, eighth grade reader level, and taking that experience you have in the design arena and putting that to practice, both in the field from the construction side and relating that to the customer, the public, certainly local officials as well as you know, your state representatives and senators and that type of thing is really important because they're the ones that are going to, you know, promote the need for the project and the work but also hopefully become an advocate for the project and the good work that we do in transportation.
• 6:41
  Jeff Cranson: Tell me this before we get into some other things how do you say explain to people who always say, I mean, we've been in a you know it's a frequent theme on the podcast that Michigan has been in a decades-long period of underfunding transportation infrastructure, especially roads and bridges well, really everything.
• 7:00
  Jeff Cranson: And people will say, I know, but I need you to do this one thing and you get that all the time right.
• 7:07
  Jeff Cranson: So how do you deal with that?
• 7:09
  Jeff Cranson: How do you process that?
• 7:12
  Art Green: You know we can put it in context of you know your home.
• 7:15
  Art Green: You know the age-old message about, you know, fixing the roof to make sure you save your infrastructure down below in the roof, to make sure you save your infrastructure down below.
• 7:28
  Art Green: We always, you know, try to look at this thing and you know, and rely at least over here on this side of the state, rely on our assets.
• 7:32
  Art Green: You know we've been blessed with a lot of different.
• 7:34
  Art Green: You know things over in this side of the state when it comes to our soils, our topography, those types of things.
• 7:41
  Art Green: We're also challenged with the idea that we get, you know, a pretty steady snowfall in a lot of extremes.
• 7:48
  Art Green: When it comes to, you know, managing the system and and you know we can't always look at, you know our neighbor and say that you know they should wait.
• 7:57
  Art Green: You know, so we always have to.
• 7:59
  Art Green: You know, look at the partnership part of it.
• 8:02
  Art Green: You know, and that is the one thing that, again, going through the development process, I've had the opportunity to be in our Metro Council and that type of thing and actually sit in those meetings when we're making those critical decisions what projects and local, MDOT, federal level get built and which ones need to wait or which ones need to look for different funding opportunities and partner.
• 8:31
  Art Green: So the more we build the partnership in the local front, the more we have trust in each other that we're going to get to these jobs and we're going to do the things we need to do, the easier those conversations need to be.
• 8:37
  Art Green: And when you build that type of trust and you build that type of network, when Joe Public is asking you those hard questions, you've got a lot of support and you build that type of network.
• 8:44
  Art Green: When Joe Public is asking you those hard questions, you've got a lot of support and you know you can say the things you need to about the work we're doing together and that we're going to get there.
• 8:52
  Art Green: And this is a collaboration.
• 8:53
  Art Green: This isn't just MDOT making a decision.
• 8:55
  Art Green: This is the community choosing these types of things first, second and third in order to benefit the whole system.
• 9:05
  Jeff Cranson: Well, I can tell you that you get you and the region staff Eric Kind, the region engineer, and certainly Roger Safford before him get really high marks on that.
• 9:13
  Jeff Cranson: I've heard it over the years from a couple of different mayors of Grand Rapids and certainly city planning director Suzanne Schultz, who's now in the State Transportation Commission.
• 9:23
  Jeff Cranson: They really talk about this being a model for collaboration and what needs to go on between the department and the various communities.
• 9:30
  Jeff Cranson: But since you mentioned the soil, and without going too geologically deep here, I'm interested in this because I hear that a lot.
• 9:43
  Jeff Cranson: You know that, we know the southeast side of the state has different soil.
• 9:46
  Jeff Cranson: Certainly UP has different soil where you came from.
• 9:49
  Jeff Cranson: But it seems like a bit of a contradiction.
• 9:51
  Jeff Cranson: If you know, there was a Sunday school song that said the foolish man builds his house upon the sand.
• 9:56
  Jeff Cranson: So why is sand, you know, advantageous for building in some cases?
• 10:04
  Art Green: Oh, it helps so tremendously.
• 10:05
  Art Green: You know the west side.
• 10:07
  Art Green: You know we don't have all sand.
• 10:10
  Art Green: We do have our areas but for the most part we're a pretty sandy area, obviously close to Lake Michigan.
• 10:17
  Art Green: We have a lot of beach and you know, and that kind of you know ripples, you know toward the city of Grand Rapids and the advantageous part of that is that you know we don't have as much activity with freeze-thaw and the biggest reason there is we get rid of that water that falls from the sky or melts from the snow or any other precipitation that's going to dry up and blow away or absorb into the soil that's taken away and put right back into the ground aquifer in the groundwater table generally is going to respond differently in a granular type soil than it's going to in a heavy soil like the clays and the silts and those types of things that have a tendency to hold the water or, you know, run within the aquifer a little bit differently than the will and sand.
• 11:01
  Art Green: So and that's the you know the Rebuilding Michigan program I mean just to talk about that you know those funds that we're, you know, borrowing the money for to kind of invest in you know what was.
• 11:16
  Art Green: You know what's been deemed better fixes and they truly are in that We've been able to, with some strategic areas within the state and of course in West Michigan too, get to some projects where we've been habitually challenged with that water and not being able to get it off the road.
• 11:31
  Art Green: And that reason is we're finally able to dig down, rebuild and then provide the sand, the gravel in that pavement top surface that's going to perform better with all that water transfer that we get from the various types of precipitation and, of course, with freeze-thaw is a lot better than what was there.
• 11:51
  Art Green: I mean the age-old, you know the older pavements you built in the 40s, 50s and you know even in the 60s with the concrete surfaces out there, have bridged a lot of that moisture transfer and had you know a lot of you know heavier soils in places where we see problems.
• 12:08
  Art Green: You know today, when we're not able to get to those things which that Rebuilding Michigan program got us to that point of replacing and further, you know benefits that soil strata, you know difference that we have, you know, over here in West Michigan.
• 12:28
  Jeff Cranson: I did not want to get, uh, have to geek out about geology, but since you mentioned it and I knew that you would know it, um, and you explained it very well.
• 12:32
  Jeff Cranson: So, again, before I get into a couple of the, the grants that are going to pay big dividends for the grand rapids region and people that travel and it's not just people in the grand region, obviously.
• 12:43
  Jeff Cranson: Uh, when we start talking about 96 and 196 in the East Beltline, that's travelers from all over the place, all over the state, even other states.
• 12:51
  Jeff Cranson: But, real quickly, we were on a call with some congressional staff yesterday and they were talking about the extreme cold and the roads and you did a great job explaining in a way I've never heard before.
• 13:04
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, we talk a lot and it's all over our Facebook page about salt and everybody thinks salt's the answer to everything and we have to explain every year why it just isn't effective at certain temperatures.
• 13:14
  Jeff Cranson: But you took it beyond that to talk about the challenges and that kind of extreme cold beyond the salt not working.
• 13:20
  Jeff Cranson: So can you talk about that a little bit?
• 13:23
  Art Green: Yeah, sure, I mean you know it's been like we said the other day.
• 13:26
  Art Green: You know we haven't had a really long sustainable cold in a few years like we've been seeing over the last couple of weeks here, and it will likely.
• 13:34
  Art Green: It looks like, maybe you know, a little bit warmer here now and then probably dip down again and again.
• 13:39
  Art Green: But the phenomenon that happens and was a challenge for our maintenance crews is, like I said, I grew up in the north, in the UP, and honestly I love that condition because when it got cold up there it stayed cold for a long time, very predictable for the driver.
• 13:55
  Art Green: The one thing up there was we didn't have you know the number of vehicles traveling on that surface that would send that instant glaze, you know, on the pavement.
• 14:07
  Art Green: So we get to rush hours and that type of thing.
• 14:10
  Art Green: Down here we got some sustained cold and we're not able to get all of them, all of the snow and things, off the road.
• 14:15
  Art Green: And even if we do, what's going on is, with all those trips is there's a slight warming to that pavement surface, that all those trips and all those cars that are coming in happen.
• 14:24
  Art Green: Wind blows again, temperatures drop, you get instant glazing of that surface.
• 14:29
  Art Green: You could be looking at the black ice, you could be looking at the gray ice, the brown ice, the white ice.
• 14:33
  Art Green: The common theme there is some form of ice ends up happening because you get more of those trips and that little bit of warming of the surface that you know that we have to deal with and, of course, in the extreme cold temperatures, that's where you see our maintenance forces looking at more of a pure sand mix to just give friction back in those situations and sometimes, when the temperatures actually start to rise, that you're going to hear, probably in the next couple of days you're going to see more salt added to maybe some of that sand mix, depending on the treatment, or just salt to try to get that.
• 15:04
  Art Green: You know, try to get that ice pack off, or removing that slick surface that all those tires all those trips and that's why you see sometimes our maintenance crews treating throughout the day because they're seeing that flash freeze effect.
• 15:20
  Art Green: There are certain corridors we have that are more windy, more tunnel wind tunnel effect that we have to treat differently because of that phenomenon and prepping for the next commuter hour, commuter set of hours so we don't get a lot of crash activity and things you know during the day when those things are being active in the cold temperatures.
• 15:39
  Jeff Cranson: So real quickly, because another question we get often is why don't we use more sand, especially from people who are very environmentally conscious and concerned about salt, and you know it's a whole nother conversation that MDOT has done a lot of really aggressive things to limit the use of salt, or at least wasted salt, the scatter.
• 15:59
  Jeff Cranson: But talk about why there's only so much sand or gravel you can use, because that can present some drainage issues on its own right.
• 16:08
  Art Green: Absolutely.
• 16:08
  Art Green: We have a rotation.
• 16:12
  Art Green: We have over just in the small metro area of MDOT's network in Grand Rapids, we have over 1,500 different catch basins that we are going to be rotating and cleaning just in our small little metro area here of MDOT system, not the local system, of course, but the MDOT system.
• 16:36
  Art Green: And yes, the more sand, the more sand-salt mixture stuff, the more we're addressing our drainage facilities and trying to make sure that we're doing the best we can with environmental issues that we have with groundwater and then, of course, that runoff that associates with that when it does start to rain or it gets a snow melt or that type of thing.
• 16:46
  Art Green: So, we're always being conscious of balancing the safety with the condition, with the traffic and the customer needs that are out there, trying to make sure that we balance all of those things together.
• 16:58
  Art Green: And of course, yes, in the spring, extensive sweeping, extensive cleaning of the storm systems to get the most of that material out that we can on a rotational basis.
• 17:08
  Art Green: We're obviously not funded to do all of it all the time, but we're going to do that in a rotation that makes some sense and also balances the environmental quality of the water right now.
• 17:18
  Jeff Cranson: All these things that those of us who drive on the roads just kind of take for granted, that's for sure.
• 17:22
  Jeff Cranson: Please stay tuned.
• 17:24
  Jeff Cranson: We'll be back with more Talking Michigan Transportation right after this.
• 17:32
  MDOT Announcement: Michigan law requires drivers to maintain at least 200 feet behind a snowplow when crews are plowing or treating roads and have their lights on.
• 17:39
  MDOT Announcement: This does not apply when passing the snowplow.
• 17:42
  MDOT Announcement: In addition, stay at least 20 feet away when the plow is stopped or at an intersection.
• 17:47
  MDOT Announcement: Failure to do so can result in a fine of $100.
• 17:50
  MDOT Announcement: The law is meant to ensure snowplow operators have the proper space and time to clear the roads.
• 17:55
  MDOT Announcement: This makes Michigan's roads and neighborhoods safer to drive on and walk around throughout the winter.
• 18:00
  MDOT Announcement: Always remember snowplows need room to groom.
• 18:07
  Jeff Cranson: Since you talked about balance, before we talk about the $25 million grant that's going to help rebuild a vital bridge on the East Beltline, also known as M-37, on the east side of Grand Rapids, where it crosses the two major east-west freeways coming into the city I-96 and 196.
• 18:25
  Jeff Cranson: Coming into the city I-96 and 196.
• 18:27
  Jeff Cranson: Let's talk first about another grant, not quite as big $800,000, to continue some planning on the 131 corridor through the city, and the reason I want to frame that in the context of balance is because there are so many people with so many strong feelings about what should happen to 131, largely elevated, including the S-curve, to 131 largely elevated, including the S curve.
• 18:53
  Jeff Cranson: It's, you know, something we've talked about a lot.
• 18:55
  Jeff Cranson: When it was built in the early 60s, Political leaders and business leaders at the time wanted the freeway to go right through the city.
• 18:59
  Jeff Cranson: They thought that was progress.
• 19:01
  Jeff Cranson: There were others, I think at the federal level especially, who didn't think that was the best idea, but that's what happened.
• 19:07
  Jeff Cranson: So that's what we've got now.
• 19:08
  Jeff Cranson: So you've been dealing with this for a long time and trying to explain the realities to people.
• 19:14
  Jeff Cranson: How do you balance that?
• 19:16
  Art Green: Well, you know, with the studies that we've done and, of course, this opportunity that we're very thankful for, with this opportunity to do some more planning on this northerly segment, a little bit out of the core downtown but certainly a part of downtown by any extent the issue is really is 131 in West Michigan does so many things?
• 19:42
  Art Green: It's a commuter route, it's a long distance transfer route, it's a freight route, it's a, you know, a local route for deliveries.
• 19:50
  Art Green: It's a you know, go get the groceries route for folks.
• 19:53
  Art Green: It's feeding our events downtown as the city continues to grow.
• 19:58
  Art Green: It's definitely an artery for that.
• 20:00
  Art Green: The medical industry in Grand Rapids has taken off greatly and has become a very critical route for a destination for a lot of specialty services that we have in the medical community.
• 20:09
  Art Green: And when we, you know, are planning these projects out and looking at these things, we're balancing a lot, including the folks that live next to it and the folks that account on it for their businesses, the economy.
• 20:21
  Art Green: You know what it means to the city and the growth and economic opportunities that everybody will eventually and already take benefit from.
• 20:31
  Art Green: We can't always look back at what was built and those reasons.
• 20:37
  Art Green: We need to look forward and we need to look at what is the current environment, what's the current short-term, mid-term and long-term plans for the land use around the freeway and what can we do with this freeway to sustain the economic viability, sustain the convenience and the efficiency of travel for all those different users and still provide a facility that's going to be very conscious, you know, to the folks that are going to live and operate their businesses next to it.
• 21:03
  Art Green: So this grand opportunity is going to be able to allow us to do some more outreach, get more invested with our different modes of transportation that need to exist.
• 21:17
  Art Green: You know when the freeway went through that particular section you know kind of from.
• 21:19
  Art Green: You know the 196 or Pearl Street area up to Richmond and you know including Leonard Street along the way in that corridor.
• 21:27
  Art Green: When that freeway was put in, there was a very conscious effort to still maintain connection within the neighborhood community.
• 21:33
  Art Green: A couple of different pedestrian tunnels were built with the project.
• 21:36
  Art Green: Now we know that didn't always solve the problem.
• 21:39
  Art Green: We hear about those conversations all the time that that type of connectivity isn't necessarily the highest quality.
• 21:46
  Art Green: Connectivity isn't necessarily the highest quality.
• 21:50
  Art Green: So when we look at this next section and we start, you know, doing a very preliminary planning and before we even talk about what can be designed and what we can do there, we need to think about the user, all the different types of users, but, more importantly, the original purpose for those tunnels and non-motorized or pedestrian crossings.
• 22:06
  Art Green: What's the value there?
• 22:08
  Art Green: What are the land use development changes that are being considered so we can look at when we do put things back together, what's that quality we want to provide together, what trail network, what reactivation of the riverfront is going to happen here, as it has in different sections to the south of here, and how we can do this together as a community, considering all the different modes, and still have a 131 that does the things that it's doing today and even does them possibly even more efficient, because that's what's going to help the community and the neighborhood, you know, have that best balance as well.
• 22:46
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, and I think you're right and I framed it as an extension of what's already being talked about in what we really think of as where 131 goes through downtown.
• 22:55
  Jeff Cranson: But that area north toward Ann Street has developed significantly in the what is the downtown, you know, business area.
• 23:02
  Jeff Cranson: Commerce has pushed that way and, like you said, what goes on with the rapids and being restored and what goes on with the rivers a factor in that too.
• 23:11
  Jeff Cranson: So I think it's great that connectivity can be part of that.
• 23:15
  Jeff Cranson: So let's talk about the grant for the East Beltline major north-south corridor on the east side of Grand Rapids, again like you talked about with 131, lots of commuters but also freight, a lot of commercial activity, major bridge over two other freeways and it's needed replaced for some time.
• 23:35
  Jeff Cranson: But the grant allows you to also add some of those connectivity elements that you're talking about in other places, right yeah?
• 24:01
  Art Green: Yeah, absolutely, Jeff.
• 24:02
  Art Green: The grant will really allow us to activate future planning needs.
• 24:07
  Art Green: You know, since 2006, we've had an environmental and engineering study on the books that we're still working our way toward with the different funding challenges that we have to maintain our existing assets and some of the enhancements that that study has suggested.
• 24:23
  Art Green: This bridge replacement is going to allow the activation of those to really come to fruition putting the piers that are going to hold up the bridge in the right locations for those future improvements to happen, with the interchange 96 and the 196 coming together, as well as how the Beltline interacts with that and the North-South movements and access to the 196 and 96 corridor are going to be critical.
• 24:49
  Art Green: The other big component of this grant is it's going to allow us to make a connection with non-motorized.
• 24:54
  Art Green: That really doesn't exist today.
• 24:55
  Art Green: For the most part the Beltline has had a shoulder and a kind of a non-motorized separated, you know, by curb only type facility along it to the south.
• 25:07
  Art Green: You know, from this area to the south and to the north, the city and the township have built a pretty extensive trail network within the right-of-way and off the right-of-way in the different, you know, county and city streets with the non-motorized pathway.
• 25:21
  Art Green: This bridge replacement now will help us take another step with that you know, that kind of separated non-motorized facility and actually make a connection.
• 25:30
  Art Green: Today the bridge does not really have any type of non-motorized crossing on it or next to it.
• 25:36
  Art Green: And the opportunity with this grant is to make that connection and connect the trails that are all along Michigan, connect trails that are being planned along the Leffingwell area and Bradford Street area by the City of Grand Rapids.
• 25:48
  Art Green: Connect the trails that have already been built and be expanded on the Grand Rapids Township Pass, you know, leading the Meyer Gardens and further to the north up toward, you know, the Celebration Cinema and Mall area and things that exist up towards Knapp Street.
• 26:00
  Art Green: So very critical connection from a non-motorized standpoint, because the number of opportunities for a non-motorized separate facility across I-96 and 196 is fairly limited today and we want to do the best when we're investing in the infrastructure and making things more efficient for the vehicle-centric that you know, our challenge and our hope is that we're able to do that with a non-motorized, you know, way to working with our local partners again to make sure that that can be as robust as it is it needs to be and you know kind of live out that that.
• 26:33
  Art Green: You know we've replaced the bridge we're talking 75 or 100 years old before we're really replacing the structure again.
• 26:37
  Jeff Cranson: So you know this is a big moment or big decision to help us with a lot of different goals here yeah, I think that that connectivity I know the grand rapids Township officials are really happy with what they've done with trails the last several years there, and certainly East Grand Rapids to the south has their own network.
• 26:54
  Jeff Cranson: So being able to connect all of those is, yeah, that'll be a wonderful thing.
• 26:58
  Jeff Cranson: But there's going to be some pain in between Talk about the project and how the East Beltline is going to have to be closed there for a while about the project and how the east belt line is going to have to be closed there for a while.
• 27:09
  Art Green: Yeah, limited early.
• 27:10
  Art Green: We're looking at schedules, uh, for the work.
• 27:11
  Art Green: Just given the uh, the amount of use, the amount of uh, you know, challenge of replacing the structure, it's going to get, you know, quite a bit wider.
• 27:19
  Art Green: Uh, they have accommodate some, some more lanes, some shoulders, of course, non-motorized we talked about, so I so trying to maintain through movement on that bridge.
• 27:44
  Art Green: While we're doing that is still allowing the ramp movements to access the freeway as they do today.
• 27:49
  Art Green: For the most part, we can get this into a one-season replacement, it looks like.
• 27:54
  Art Green: So we're going to keep planning, keep looking at that idea, keep trying to enhance that, make it better, keep working with our local partners, because we're going to need their help and utilization of their system in order to, you know, make that, you know, make that a reality and do a lot of communication, make sure that we, you know, get out in front of the communities, get out in front of regionally really, you know, trucking, you know package delivery, schools, those types of things, to make sure that that plan can be successful.
• 28:23
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, there'll be a lot of communication, for sure, and there's already been, you know, a lot of media reports about it and the sad reality and I'm not telling you anything you don't know is that when the project starts, a lot of people are going to say I didn't know anything about this.
• 28:35
  Jeff Cranson: That does happen.
• 28:41
  Jeff Cranson: I think the last thing, maybe, is just talk about that.
• 28:43
  Jeff Cranson: You're hoping to do all this in the 2027 construction season.
• 28:45
  Art Green: Right?
• 28:45
  Art Green: Is that still the plan?
• 28:46
  Art Green: Yes, yeah, with the grant opportunity.
• 28:47
  Art Green: It's going to take us a little bit, you know, to go through that process of you know confirming all those things with the grant and then our you know we're well underway with the design.
• 28:57
  Art Green: We have some, you know, definitely some decisions to make.
• 28:59
  Art Green: It's more partnering to do with the city, the township and, you know, surrounding regional area.
• 29:03
  Art Green: When it comes to, you know, like we talked about, traffic control, final design type elements looking at, you know, some connectivity opportunities for you know, crossing over, you know, the belt line with some of the non-motorized things and we'll be ready to go for the 27 construction season and that is important because we want to give our contractors enough time in advance to acquire materials, put together a good plan to stage and mobilize and make sure that we've got a safe work zone and we've got a good message out there for folks to follow the traffic control we have in place and look at those different parts of detours that are going to be a part of the job.
• 29:42
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 29:43
  Jeff Cranson: I'm glad you underscored the safety of the work zone.
• 29:48
  Jeff Cranson: That's obviously going to be a huge priority.
• 29:49
  Jeff Cranson: So really, anything else you want to say about that or any of the other things you have going in the Grand Region, I think we covered a lot.
• 29:56
  Art Green: We did cover a lot today, Jeff, I don't think we have much else.
• 30:01
  Art Green: The 25 construction season is going to be very busy for us.
• 30:04
  Art Green: We're going to be working on, you know, some projects out in Ionia and we have a big one our design build job down to the south on 131 between, you know, 100th Street and 76.
• 30:14
  Art Green: It's going to occupy a lot of our time and unfortunately inconvenience our customers a bit, but when it's done, you know we'll be able to have our brand new facility there fully reconstructed and ready for service for another good long time.
• 30:29
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, well, I'm more familiar with the Ionia work, for obvious reasons, but you've got a very good plan there, I think, a good mitigation plan for the morning and afternoon.
• 30:41
  Jeff Cranson: So I'm excited to see how that works out, and probably I'll also be spending some time on Grand River Avenue.
• 30:46
  Jeff Cranson: So that's just the way it goes.
• 30:48
  Jeff Cranson: Thanks, Art.
• 30:49
  Jeff Cranson: I really appreciate you taking time to do this and good luck with all the work you've got.
• 30:53
  Art Green: Thanks, Jeff.
• 30:54
  Art Green: Again, appreciate you having me and appreciate the conversation.
• 30:58
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 31:01
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 31:06
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.