Latest / High Five Hot Mess Podcast / Should We Join a Cult?
Transcript
- Lisa Wilson: Okay, listen, I know this is gonna sound weird, but I have always wanted to have my own cult. And I have the qualifications. Type A personality, check. Control issues, check. Need to lead every group project, check, check. Strong opinions about how things should be done, triple check. And at some point I realized these are either the characteristics of a very high functioning woman. Or the beginning of a pretty compelling cult leader resume. Then I saw this guy on Instagram give an entire PowerPoint presentation about why he would make a good cult leader, and I have never felt more seen by a man on the internet. Because instead of thinking like, what's wrong with this guy? I immediately started building my own PowerPoint. Although there is one small problem with this plan: a cult leader needs followers. And I don't know if you guys know this, but Lisa and I have seven Facebook followers. Our whole you should want to come and hang out with us strategy that we is part of our podcast has only led to a bunch of dudes getting real mad and yelling at us on YouTube. So very close, but a MISS Are we good at the cult building part? Not so much. Are we good at being amazing cult leaders? A thousand percent yes. So should we start a cult? I don't know, but I definitely want to talk about it. Let's get into it. How you doing, Lisa? Well, good. Clearly I'm coming Lisa Smith: I'm good. How are you? Lisa Wilson: to you live from the conjugal visit room of the women's prison. Lisa Smith: Yeah, like where are you? Lisa Wilson: make up what a conjugal visit room look like at the women's prison? This right here? Lisa Smith: You think they have a plant? Do you think they have a plant there? Lisa Wilson: I do. I think they have a sad generic plant Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: in a gray room with a rhinoceros. I don't know what the gold rhinoceros maybe it's for fertility. I don't So li I don't listen. Lisa Smith: I think it's a feng shui or something. I don't know, but that's funny. I I mean you've been somewhere different. You've had a different background this whole week. I've talked to you. So this is a good Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I'm all over the place and like listen, like these people that are like, I'm doing my podcast from my car. I'm like, fuck you. How Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: are you doing it from your car? Lisa Smith: I mean, it's there's no I'm sorry. Well, unless you're using your phone, which is fine. You can do that. That's fine. Lisa Wilson: It's not for me. I'll tell you that. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Like I had a whole crew in here and the light's still not right. I still can't get the right and by whole crew I mean poor Doug. Lisa Smith: He's your technical crew. Lisa Wilson: He's my technical crew, my sponsor, my my test audience. He's all of it. But listen, so today we're here to talk about something we both get really excited about, right? So cults. So women are obsessed. I'm obsessed. I've seen every NXIVM documentary there is on all of the different like the different perspectives of that Hollywood cult and every single time I'm like okay so you guys all did this for that dude the short squatty dude Lisa Smith: There's and it's usually always the ones that like probably didn't have friends, like like a a bigger friend group or really great, you know, friendships with people. It's the people that you were like, hmm, like I wouldn't have I wouldn't have even thought twice to say I'm gonna give up everything for you, bro. Lisa Wilson: Mm mm. Lisa Smith: But we can't judge. Because it becomes something that you don't even realize, I think, that you're in it until you're in it or you're or you're out of it. Like, I mean, hi, Lisa, we've been in a cult. Lisa Wilson: We have been in a cold. Lisa Smith: I mean, let's not lie, retail was the biggest cult of our life. Lisa Wilson: Retail was straight up a cult. So Lisa, when did you first realize in your young retail-loving life that you were in a cult? Lisa Smith: I mean, when I started working for you, I think. I mean, Lisa, you remember the stories of like I did everything that you had you asked me to do. I was this young little Lisa Wilson: You did. Lisa Smith: fawn in this big city. And there was rituals. Part of like the culture of the company, like you start drinking the Kool-Aid from day one. I mean, think about it. The recruiting process, parallel, very parallel. Lisa Wilson: I mean very much so, yep. Lisa Smith: the swag that you get when you join and all the promises. It's promises that your life will change and you're, you know, you're never gonna. Want for anything in your life ever again because you're gonna be the happiest human if you make these sales or you get this promotion or whatever. the the leadership teams were like like superheroes and you did whatever they said. You did whatever they said. Didn't matter, didn't matter. Lisa Wilson: I mean whatever they said. Yep. Yep. Lisa Smith: I mean, everything else got put aside. to what they wanted. so I I I think that that was my first experience of thinking, my gosh, I've given up my entire life to like this company or this team Lisa Wilson: Okay, but Lisa Smith: or this I would do anything. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: But we all did, Lisa, we all did. Like I remember very distinctly when I realized I was straight up in a cult. So you'll remember this. It was so we had a a company leader that over the weekend watched Rocky. And he he w he went to the movie Rocky. And he went to his Monday meeting, like as billionaires do, and was like, Yeah, I saw this movie this weekend. And it really like we need to. We need to be like Rocky. Like I'm sure, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: probably still drunk from the mamosas he had at breakfast, you know? Lisa Smith: Probably, yeah. Lisa Wilson: And everyone was so like, okay, so now it's about like we need to take it to the last round. We gotta make it to the last Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha Lisa Wilson: fight. And they all walked away totally drinking the Rocky Kool-Aid. Okay, but it didn't stop there, right? Because Lisa Smith: Yeah. No? Lisa Wilson: then what do they do? They take it out, like in any multi-level marketing group. Lisa Smith: Yep. Lisa Wilson: And then they took it down to the lower level, who made it even more extreme, right? The whole Rocky phenomena. Lisa Smith: And ha and picked everything apart from the movie, from the song, like. Lisa Wilson: From the movie, like they had watch parties at their district managers meetings. I'm not messing with you guys. Then it gets like this was my moment when I was like, What am I doing with my life? So we were at the holiday kickoff. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: And we were all wearing boxing robes. Some teams had custom made boxing gloves, like with their in their colors with their names on them, that were probably Lisa Smith: yeah. Lisa Wilson: a thousand dollars. And we're all standing on top of our chairs, singing at the top of our lungs to Eye of the Tiger. And I was like, I had a little bit of out-of-body experience, and I'm like, this is messed up. Lisa Smith: Like I wouldn't do this on like a normal day. Like this wouldn't be something that like if if you can really tell yourself, like, if I'm not in the wild with my peop like or if I'm in the wild and not with this team or Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: in this meeting, if I would do this around my family. Then you might not be in a cult. But if you would say no to that question, I mean, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: you have some things. I mean, we've we were put in so many crazy situations. And even I remember this guy and this other company that I worked with worked in and I worked with him and you know he joined and he was very big on Tony Robbins. Again, nothing against Tony Robbins, but there was something I think in the I don't know, in in the in the Presentation where Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: it's like, I can make your hands clap. I can make your hands. I can make your hands clap. So when he would say that, everyone was supposed to stop and be like, And it was like, and he did it like to, I don't know, to control situations. Lisa Wilson: A hundred percent. And why was everybody like, yeah, I'm gonna do it? Like like no, I wouldn't have either. I'm like you can suck it. Yeah. Lisa Smith: N well, see, I wouldn't do it. And so then I became that person that was not a team player or whatever. I'm like Lisa Wilson: You'll become okay, but Lisa, Lisa Smith: Yo, this is crazy. Lisa Wilson: you were a believer. What Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: if someone when you were in your like just think the highest moment where you were like a hundred percent in, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and think of that mentor that you had, if Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: they had said, I'm gonna make your hands clap, would you have done it? A hundred percent. Yeah. No. No. Lisa Smith: Probably. And it's probably because I didn't believe in this guy at all. Didn't know where he came from. I had there was no trust built, right? Like zero trust. Lisa Wilson: Mm mm, nope. So listen, we're two smart, Lisa Smith: I mean, yeah. Lisa Wilson: independent, high functioning midlife women who have already lived cult adjacent lives. But Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: let's see if the Lisa and Lisa of today have what it takes. See see if we would join a cult today. So here's our questions. Question number one As high functioning women with control issues, it's hi. I d I don't think we could say we don't. Are Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we more likely to join a cult or overthrow the leader because we think we could do a better job? Lisa Smith: I mean, I think today it would be overthrow the leader. I think back then we were belonging, right? It was it was a sense of belonging and and whatever following a leader. But now I would be like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, I'd be like yeah, I'd be like, Lisa Smith: I got this. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: you know what? If you actually if you actually did this, it would Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: actually make your goal fo I say that all the time. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and I'm sure that I would be immediately banned to the quiet room of any compound. Lisa Smith: yeah. I don't think that like cult leaders would want us on their team. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: They'd probably just be like I mean, you guys you're annoying. Lisa Wilson: experiencing a little bit of that today because there Lisa Smith: Why? Why? Lisa Wilson: are lots of like cult leaders in this environment that we're currently in and none of them are calling my phone Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: They're all like, Lisa Smith: Think we're Lisa Wilson: no, I'm good, girl. I got this. Like, you go over there and don't disrupt my followers. Don't disrupt this good thing I've got going right now. Lisa Smith: Yeah, no that's funny. Lisa Wilson: okay, if someone looked at everything you're carrying, all the stuff you're doing on a daily basis for everyone, including everyone around you. Lisa, you do way more for other people than I do. And they said, you know what? Just come hang out with us, we got this for you. Would you be would you believe it? And would you be able to give everything over and just trust that it was all gonna get done and join their cult? Lisa Smith: No, I couldn't do that. Absolutely not. I mean a lot of people, a lot of people. Lisa Wilson: doing who could I mean we're gonna talk about it then we're gonna talk about like why women specifically are more susceptible to joining cults but I I also I would be like why do you want my stuff? I'd be like Lisa Smith: Like what am I not doing a good enough job? Lisa Wilson: Yes, Lisa. I'm like, are you criticizing me? Lisa Smith: Yeah, like, so are you putting me down? Lisa Wilson: Are you saying I'm not enough? Because let me walk you through it. Alright, so this one I thought was good. What's more Lisa Smith: Mm-mm. Lisa Wilson: likely to get you in midlife? A charismatic leader telling you you're special or a group of women making you feel seen. Lisa Smith: Probably a group of women making me feel seen. That would be Lisa Wilson: Okay, that's why they send the women out to recruit. But yes, go ahead. Lisa Smith: Yeah. I I I honestly think that women are silent weapons in this whole scheme. I mean, we know things that have been in the news that has come up quite a bit lately of women kind of doing some of the firsthand dirty work. think about certain religions that send specifically women out to recruit. I think women break down the barriers, maybe, maybe it's they can come across as comforting or trust I I don't know. I don't know if like you would maybe invite a woman into your house more th before you'd invite a strange a a man that's a stranger. I don't know. I don't know what it is. Lisa Wilson: Women are, you said it earlier, women are the perfect weapon in Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: getting the vulnerable, the sad, the lonely, to kind along on this journey, right? And I think that Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: just from my own perspective, I didn't have a lot of friends growing up. And I definitely when I first started getting friends, like I was always like so like, my god, you want to hang out with me? Like it Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: was hard for me to explain. Except so as a midlife woman I think that it's really intoxicating when Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: someone is like, my god, I love your outfit. Where do you get that? And they start showing interest in you as a person. It's very Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: intoxicating. And I think that that is what gets us is that female appreciation from somebody Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: that we like think is like a famous celebrity, you know, and you're just like the NXIVM CULT what keeps coming up to my mind because like Keith Rainier, who's he recruiting? Like, I mean, nobody, but apparently a lot of famous Hollywood actresses. But I think that the women get you because it there's just something about it it, especially our Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: age and people our age. are you actually harder to manipulate now than you Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: were when you were younger because you have like boundaries, or do you think that if it's the right person and the right thing, they could get you now or back then? Lisa Smith: It's a good question because I mean I kind of think about sometimes like am I am I how many cults have I actually been in? To be honest, right? In my lifetime. You can you can look at religion as a cult. You can look at, you know, your career whatever career you were in as with cult like tendencies. I think today I would probably be a little bit more cautious because I do know that I've like lost myself in things or Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: things. Have made me feel really bad about myself. Like, and I think that's part of like the tactic of a cult is like it's like they build you up to pull you down, right? take away your ability to think for yourself. And you know, kind of removing yourself from like family and friends, like people who would probably shake you and say, This is crazy. But if you have surrounded yourself with people that are inside the clan, right, then Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: then of course you can see people who are like you now. And then then you all of a sudden think, well, my friends and family, they're not like me anymore. So I can't call them. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: I am not gonna talk to them because they'll think that what I'm saying is crazy or that that's what they say to me all the time. Then you think about it, then you get in so far and I think by the time you realize that you're you're in really deep, you can feel like you can't leave. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, yeah. I Lisa Smith: Cause you've invested everything. Lisa Wilson: Everything. So like there's there's a couple of things that are coming to mind for me right now as far as like Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: what would it like someone my age who is naturally street smart and skeptical. I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: know my vulnerabilities are, you know, people saying nice things to me, people, you know, showing up when I didn't think anybody would show up. Like that usually gets me. Lisa Smith: in a in a friendship relationship you would you would follow that though? Just because they are because they are like your friends, like would you would you truly follow that if they were doing that even if you didn't believe in it? Do you think? Lisa Wilson: I don't I mean I don't know that I wouldn't but I don't I mean I don't think so. I mean I'm so skeptical and I don't trust people naturally anyway. But if it Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: was somebody that I really trusted, right? Like Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: my friend tells me all the time that my picker is broken because Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: they'll be like, my God, I love this girl. She's so great. Like she's so funny. La la la and they're like watch out for her. Like you need to watch. Yes, that has happened Lisa Smith: And then she'll run you over with her car next week. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: to me so many times. So yeah, I think that's true. it maybe the first thing about joining a cult is not following a cult leader, but it's more about belonging to something. Lisa Smith: Yeah, but and that's where I think that's where it started. Like we didn't join Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: our first cult because of the leader. We Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: joined for this belonging to this bigger picture. And then the leaders eventually came into the picture and we couldn't do anything against what they said. You know, like you would have you would Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: have laid on the train track for some of them. So yeah. Lisa Wilson: And I and I think that like there comes a point if you're if you're like Lisa and I, there comes a point where you're like, my god, these are my people and Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: then you're like, Wait, why are we all wearing the same thing? Lisa Smith: I mean like the when there was like like trends right that would come through Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: and we'd be like we'd show up and we all literally look the same leather pants, fur shirts, wear sunglasses during the day at work. Like why? What were we doing? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Not sure. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. We were in a cult, Lisa. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I mean, so if you've ever been completely overwhelmed, desperately wanted someone else to take over, and then immediately decided that they were doing it wrong, you're at least a nice cult because Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: that that is thousand percent where we would be. And I like I have to tell you guys kind of this this the power of belonging through the lens of Twilight. So So listen, this is a true story. So I read Twilight like by accident. I picked it up at the airport. I was late. I was on a work trip. Lisa Smith: I did the same thing. Uh-huh. Lisa Wilson: Picked it up at the airport. I was like, I'll just read this. Okay. Book one hooked. But I was Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: too embarrassed to go into the bookstore and the young adult section and get it. So I made someone go in and get it for me. And this was before you guys, all the the chat rooms and the the before the movies, like this was. Lisa Smith: It was right when it came out, the book. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Right, right when the books came out. And then I went and I read the final one and I met another my real estate agent when I moved Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: to Virginia. She was like, I have a book club and we are reading Twilight. Have you ever read it? And I was like, suddenly like the gates open and I'm like, have I read it? Yes, I read it. Lisa Smith: Obsessed with it. Lisa Wilson: I've read it multiple times. And again, I never met somebody else close to my age that had any sort Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: of interest in it. And so I immediately like didn't join the book club, but she's when the movies came out, she called me and she was like, Hey, there, you know, the movies coming out. there's these VIP passes, and you know, they're like $300 a piece. And I'm like, sold. I don't even know what's the VIP. I will be there. And we got Lisa Smith: Yeah, I'll be there. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: all dressed up. I covered myself. and body glitter because I'm a Cullen and I love boys that sparkle so I sparkle too and I we Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Well bec you love boys that sparkle. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: were first in line we got there like five hours early we were first in line Lisa Smith: Shining everywhere like Lisa Wilson: glitter sticking, it looked like two strippers up in this joint because there's glitter everywhere. And all these tweens are behind us so jealous because we got like the really expensive passes and we're covered in glitter. It was like the best night of my life. All right. And it was like Lisa Smith: I bet I bet. Lisa Wilson: a midnight show. But the cult part comes a little bit so as the movies were released, of course we did Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: the same thing, but then they had to watch all the movies front to back in 24 hours. Lisa Smith: wow, okay. Lisa Wilson: Okay, course we went, but the whole book club came and we're I remember sitting in this row with these women that we all knew every word to every movie and we were just I really felt like I found my people, you know? Like I'm like, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: we're all laughing at the same things. I'm cracking jokes. I'm like, you know, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Edward Cullen walks across the screen. I'm like, did I just ovulate? And they're all Lisa Smith: Ha ha. Lisa Wilson: Cackling, cackling. Like, I mean, it was like I I was having the time. I'm like, these are my people. So Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: if there was a cult to belong in for Twilight, yes, I was in until it was time the movies were over, and they turned Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: on the lights after we'd all been there together for like 24 hours watching all these movies. I don't remember, it was like 12 hours or something like that. Lisa Smith: Yeah, yeah. Lisa Wilson: And I turned around And then, like, like it just was like the scariest people. And I was like, okay, this, these, these are not my people. These, Lisa Smith: Right. Lisa Wilson: this one row was my people. And I was like, okay, Lisa Smith: Right. Lisa Wilson: like I I definitely am in the cult of Twilight. And it was Lisa Smith: Ha ha. Lisa Wilson: very like. Lisa Smith: Well, I wonder I Lisa Wilson: It was a big wake up call. Lisa Smith: I mean, I'm not saying that boys couldn't watch Twilight, but yeah. Lisa Wilson: They absolutely could, but these guys were all grown men that looked like they hadn't been around other people in a while. Lisa Smith: but yeah, Twilight was a big one. That was a Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: that was a big one. I mean, I think you can get into the cult. I mean, I was in the cult of Prince for how many years? Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: Went to a quatrillion concerts. Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: you went to First Avenue with me. Lisa Wilson: I did. I did it. Cause you guys Lisa Smith: Even though you didn't want to, I drug you down in Minneapolis. Lisa Wilson: look, it was not in a good part of Minneapolis. And being the street Lisa Smith: No First Avenue is not Lisa Wilson: savvy girl I am, I'm like, this is dangerous. But yes, it will go. Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: And I'm like, we're we're getting out. Yeah, right? We have to we have to be there. I would have spent and I did. I Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: spent thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to see him multiple times. Anytime he would have a show that I could be at, I I was there for years, decades, actually. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: He he came first in a lot of things all the time, right? And and Lisa Wilson: All the time. Yeah. Yes. Lisa Smith: then if you if you've ever if you had ever been to a prince concert, you know every they everybody gets dressed up, it's very Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: it's very themey. so yeah, when you were there for that two and a half hours, you felt like you were with your people. Lisa Wilson: So what is the cultiest thing currently women are getting into? What would what would they like the cultiest behavior that you're seeing right now? Lisa Smith: Mm. gosh, that I mean that's hard. Lisa Wilson: Three initials You think? Lisa Smith: BTS. I mean, yeah, I get I guess I could because I don't know how many outfits I have for this next show. I don't know what I'm gonna wear, but I know that I have to have options. Yeah, that that's actually true. There is a lot of Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: there is a lot of people and they're going to the they're going to the nines. I mean, some people are going to like every show or like every show in America or like and which is awesome. Which is awesome. Lisa Wilson: And like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: I'll go to as many as I can, but we're on round two. Lisa Wilson: But I think it's not just you. I think there's also the the new kids on the block and Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: the like it's it's this boy band comeback phenomenon. Lisa Smith: Weren't they just Yeah. that is true. I because I did I have seen people that I know on social media just went and saw, I don't know, was it Backstreet Boys or New Kids on the V block? Yeah, yeah, at the sphere. Yeah, so a lot Lisa Wilson: Yes, in the all white at the sphere. Yes. It's Lisa Smith: of people went went to see them. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, boy bands are fun. Lisa Wilson: So I think we're gonna have to do a whole episode on this whole BTS phenomena it's it's all over the place. I think the behavior besides the fandoms, which I love, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I get I'm a girl that loves a good fan club and I just think it's so much fun. And a life Lisa Smith: Yeah. Me too. Lisa Wilson: a life without whimsy is a life not worth living. But I think the thing we need to watch out for, like if we look Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: at the kind of like the dark side of this, the wellness movement in the United States right now, whole like zealot Like belonging is what Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: makes me very nervous. Like the yoga instructors, like I I'm a girl that if it's a good spin teacher, or a good even yoga teacher. I've had girl Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: crushes on my yoga teachers, I'll admit it, where like I would fight for a spot in the class because they just again they make you feel seen, they make you feel like you're better than you are. That's a good instructor, you guys. Period the end. But Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: this whole like to Having them tell you how to live your life, that's Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: the boundary that I would recommend that you set. Because I think it can get it can get off the rails real quick. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: And the one story I'm thinking of is there was this woman that during COVID, I think we all had a tendency, we spent a lot of time online. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: And I think we went down these little rabbit holes. And again, like everybody with a everyone with a pod microphone and a headset suddenly became an expert. Lisa Smith: Yeah, that's true. Lisa Wilson: On whatever they were like, you guys listen. That's why Lisa and I are like zero guru energy. Like we are just two chicks having a conversation. We don't Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: know anything about anything. Do not follow examples or if I say something, yes. Lisa Smith: No, we know what we like and we know what we experiences we've had, but other than that Lisa Wilson: Yeah. But I think that for me is like the thing that I Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: see really smart, experienced, midlife women totally falling, hook, line and sinker. Like the supplements and the like all that Lisa Smith: And are you saying like okay. Lisa Wilson: stuff. Like Lisa Smith: Yeah, I mean, I think people, I mean, I hate to say it though. I just barely sent you a text message this morning about a doctor giving me medicine that was absolutely the wrong thing to do. A thousand percent. And Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: I think that some people, and I'm not saying doctors are bad either, but it's like they're not perfect. And so they're they can make mistakes, they can make you feel terrible or or you could be going through some stuff and wanting to find a cure, wanting to feel better, and you're gonna just grab where from whoever. Lisa Wilson: And those that is not what I like, I don't mean that, Lisa. Like you got a bad doctor and there's more of them than there are good ones. And he wasn't listening to you. Lisa Smith: But like I would no, he wasn't listening to me. But what I'm saying is is that because of that, I have been going off trying to find this fix, right? And not from a doctor. You know, like in I'm not gonna suck on a crystal, but like Lisa Wilson: Back of the van. Lisa Smith: I mm. But like I'll take a supplement. I I'm not against that. Lisa Wilson: So then let me ask you this question. So think about like the Netflix shock documentaries, you know? What Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is would you say that your search for the hair treatment would be like a a Netflix level shocking documentary? Like the behaviors that you've exhibited? Lisa Smith: my gosh. Yes. Yes. And I finally have found somebody who's helping me and she's helping Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: me through a lot of different things. But it's because I had to go through all of those other things over the last three years to get here. And it hasn't been easy. But yeah, like I'm in her cult thousand percent. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I'm in, I'm in. I'm hook line sinker. I'll do whatever she says. My hair's growing back. Like. Lisa Wilson: Which is great. Lisa Smith: But do you know what I mean? Lisa Wilson: I think the word cult means oppression, means you are belonging to something where you are not in control. You're a cult person. It doesn't mean it's a a passion project. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Sense of belonging or a passion project, Lisa Wilson: Right. Lisa Smith: yeah. Lisa Wilson: A passion project is very different. But I think you're you're in the right lens, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: your hair project and my like desire to figure out all the podcast stuff in my Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: dark little room for like twelve to fourteen hours a day, I think that Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: could also be seen as like weird cult like me and my AI agents, that's all I talk to all day. That could definitely be a weird cult thing. Lisa Smith: That is true. That is absolutely true because you'll say something and I'll say, I mean like so which which AI agent told that to tell yeah. Lisa Wilson: I'm like, that's Claude, you know, Claude is crazy. He's like that. So I think we've established that we're probably not gonna join a cult, Lisa. I think that that although Lisa Smith: Yeah, I'm good. Lisa Wilson: both like are strongly attracted to belonging and being seen, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I think that we definitely don't have we don't have the bullshit meter where we could just be like, sure, yeah, okay. I just don't I don't think so. Lisa Smith: No. And no. And I think to your point too, it's like, if it makes you happy and it's not harming you and you're not, it's not like taking you away from your responsibilities. You can still go to work, talk to your friends and family. You know, you're I mean, that's just a that's just having a good time. That's what I think. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, no, you said something earlier, like if you can't tell your family about it, that's a red flag. Right? So Lisa Smith: Yeah, I think so. I think so, because I mean there's a lot of things Yeah, I you just I'm sure people would be like, if I told if I told my friend at work, they would think I was loco, right? But Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. But like listen, this whole episode started because we saw that kid's presentation on it on Instagram about why he why you should join his cult. And I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: just thought it was so great. So for our high five this week, we're gonna start our own cult. So if we were to start a cult, I mean you guys get ready. Like it our cult would be so much fun. Lisa Smith: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: So if we were to start our own cult, Lisa Who would handle recruitment? Lisa Smith: Okay, so we're in a cult together and we're both leaders of that cult. Okay, so you and I, it's our cult. Lisa Wilson: Yes, it's our cult. The l the cult of Lisa. That's what it is. Lisa Smith: Okay. So who would it handle recruitment? You. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, but listen, we're not gonna recruit. We're gonna yes, yes, Lisa Smith: You're the best recruiter. Charisma. Well, you would recruit other people to recruit. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: and we would have to choose you. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: To belong to come and and you might be able to come and like come to high tea with us or something, but you that doesn't mean you're part of the cult. Just means you're you're you're cult adjacent until we actually Lisa Smith: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: invite you. Do you see? You see how it's just coming to me? Like live? So who would who should control the money? Who's better at yes, a hundred percent. It would be like miniature horses running wild on the compound if I did it. Lisa Smith: You're like and I want this and I want this and I want this and I want this. Lisa Wilson: And you're like, no, no, maybe. okay, How do we handle discipline? How do we keep our cult members in check? Lisa Smith: that I don't I don't know I don't know. What do you think? Lisa Wilson: I think that okay, I put some thought into this. because I Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: am kind of philosophical and I believe I don't believe in heaven or hell, but I believe that Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we can put ourselves in hell by holding ourselves accountable to things that are not our fault. Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: And I think that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to guilt and shame and all of those Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: things. So we would have a very easy psychological profile that we would start talking to the person that was a problem, that by the Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: end of the day, they would be like, I I just I need your I need to be better because I'm this terrible person. They would they would put themselves in their own mental hell prison. Lisa Smith: Lisa, you'd have to do that. I don't think I could do that. Yeah, I don't think I could do that. You'd have to do that. Lisa Wilson: I could. Dude, if this person gets loose and they start talking to all of our other cult members, we don't have a cult. We can't. We gotta shut that down. Do you guys see how this works? How our relationship works? Lisa Smith: I think I think what I would be good at though is making sure that that person that, you know, we had to call into the office, I could be the heavy if it if it Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: meant but I couldn't make him feel bad about themselves. Lisa Wilson: So listen, maybe step one, tier one, is that you go on a hike with them. Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: And or make them row in a kayak or I don't know, jump rope, whatever we decide they have to do. Phase two, the psychological treatment comes in. All right, so Lisa Smith: Okay. All right, gotcha. Lisa Wilson: but again, that's for the rares. Our cult is gonna be super fun and we're all gonna Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: have a great time. Trust me on this one. Okay, so Lisa, when you join our cult, you get a swag bag. What's in our swag bag? Lisa Smith: Well, of course we've we've thought through everything. We've thought through the texture, the color, all the stationeries, like letter pressed. It's very, very nice. it's gonna be all of our favorite things, kind of like what Oprah does, you know, all of her favorite things. It's literally gonna be and the bag isn't gonna be just like a tote bag, okay, that we can buy. Lisa Wilson: Mm. No. Lisa Smith: for two dollars and slap a logo on it. It's nice. Our stuff is nice. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: You wanna be there and you wanna hang out with us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: It's gonna be coveted. Like people are gonna want it. Like it's gonna be a big deal. so where do we where do we wanna have our cult? Where's our compound? Lisa Smith: Our well, our compound is close it's close to water. It's close to a beach for sure. I'm thinking Miami. Lisa Wilson: Sure. Yes. Miami is perfect cult territory. Lisa Smith: I think Miami is like I think Miami's great because I mean we're right by the border too. So like if we had to get out. But yeah, the vibe. I like the vibe. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, I mean look, it's gonna be amazing. Mm-hmm. Okay, so what is our outfit? What are we wearing? Lisa Smith: Probably all black. Lisa Wilson: All I mean, yes, all black, comfortable, right? Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: But not like matching sweatsuit weird. Not gonna do that. Lisa Smith: No, no, no, not like that. No, but we're in all black, I'm sure. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, yeah, like yeah, like loose loungewear, but all black, right? Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Comfortable, cool. and I think that like one of the things that I'm gonna share with you guys this story. So when I was younger, somebody asked me like retail years, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: they had me read Tony Robbins' book and Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: I did not like it at all. I thought it was very cringe. However, I learned that he had retreats. So these retreats, you would Lisa Smith: Yes, that's where this guy would go to learn the that yes. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: You would get in you would get invited, like there were tiers There were the s the Uber celebrity guests, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and that's what I was after. I was like, okay, so what do you mean? And he's they were like, no, like like the president of GE pays to spend a weekend with Tony Robbins to figure out what he needs to do to improve his life. And I'm like, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: that is the greatest scam I've ever heard in my life, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: because you are already successful and you're coming to me like Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: a life coach. to tell you how to be better. So then for me I got really into like exp like thinking and I even had you in on this, remember? Because I was like, okay, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Lisa, we're gonna have this cult and you're gonna be the one responsible for setting up their living space with all of their favorite things, their favorite Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: fabrics, their favorite flowers, their favorite foods, so that Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: it would be an ideal environment for them while they were there. And Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: then I had other people, everyone had a job. Everyone knew what they were gonna do for this Uber exclusive cult celebrity retreat where Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we would help them figure out like how to improve their lives. And you guys, I was like, this this is what I'm meant to do. It was my calling. Lisa Smith: You're like, this is my calling. This is it. Yeah. Yes. Lisa Wilson: And here I am, I'm not a cult leader. And you know, I'm working on just trying to get people to talk to me in a public space without freaking out. But, you know, we'll figure it out, right? But it was fun. It was more fun talking about it than actually Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: do it. Gave us something to do as we were folding jeans for 12 hours. so listen, so we talked about women, super smart, capable women who you know, all of us respect and admire. joining cults to follow some yoga leader, to Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: you know, do some wellness retreat that you know where they get branded. I mean all sorts Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: of stuff, Like and we are very smart, capable women as well, right? And we talked about like can women and us could we turn everything over to one person and just be enough, just do enough just to live our lives? And our answer is no, because we went Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: from k our should we join a cult to now we're running our own cult with outfits and swag like We are we are not those people, Lisa. I don't think we're ever gonna be those people, right? Like we're we're managing Lisa Smith: No Lisa Wilson: an entire cult now. But so I think that it would could be a lot of fun, but I don't think it's for us. And Lisa Smith: No. Lisa Wilson: if you are somebody out there, as My Favorite Murder always says, if you're you're in a cult, call your dad. or better yet, just get some close friends and have some drinks. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Drinks and go to a coffee club. Lisa Smith: I think the again I think the important thing is to to not put all of your eggs in ever in one basket. I think if we've learned anything from our lives, is the minute that you do that and it comes crashing down, you don't have anything to hold on to. And so Lisa Wilson: Agreed. Lisa Smith: so yeah, that would that would be I think that's probably the lesson I've learned throughout my life is like I'm not gonna do that. Put everything in one basket again. Don't go all in. Lisa Wilson: Don't go all in. Don't go all in. Don't don't sacrifice everything for the one thing. You Lisa Smith: I mean mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: can still be motivated and driven and dedicated Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: and ambitious and tenacious, but not give all your money to a weird short squatty dude and brand your girlfriends. Lisa Smith: No. Lisa Wilson: Like Lisa Smith: Like or like go to work and give your entire paycheck to to the leader of this cult while you're trying to recruit for religious things. Like again, this happens to like really smart people. but mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: It does. The power of belonging is, I think, the most thing. But like you guys, just don't go all in. And remember, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: worst case, stay hydrated, roll Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: your shoulders back, unclench jaw. Don't join a cult. Maybe start one and go high-five somebody this week. Lisa Smith: Good. Lisa Wilson: All right, guys. Bye. Lisa Smith: Bye.