Latest / The Speak Life Podcast / Novak Djokovic, Vaccines, Australian Open || The Green Mile || SLP390

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Novak Djokovic, Vaccines, Australian Open || The Green Mile || SLP390 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Speak Life podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I am Thomas with a T and I'm joined by Paul with a P.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Actually has a silent silent Q in it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, Paul?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing fine, yes.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lovely Tuesday in Eastbourne.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's this episode about?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um this week's episode is about Novak Djokovic, in fact.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's taken a bit of a different form this week because we've got kind of Glenn and Nate sort of facing each other, literally, at the table.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're on the other, the other side, and you kind of helped, you know, keep things on track.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you find that more kind of formal structure?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I prefer it because I mean I've got nothing useful to say anyway.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, it's more useful for me just to say, okay, and now on to the next bit.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not true at all.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not that Glenn stopped when I said we're moving on to the next bit.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: As you'll discover during the thing.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's time for the mailbag as Glenn plows on into the anyway.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, just one more thing about uh Novat Djokovic.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh no, I think it's gonna be a good format.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so what you're gonna hear today is um it was only the first time we've done this new format, so it's slightly in its infancy.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be more tweaks we need to make to it, and we're gonna get some more official kind of stingers and bits in.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but to be honest, I'm not even sure.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what you're gonna hear today is obviously what we recorded last night on the Speakeasy.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what in the future whether this podcast is even gonna stay as just the audio from that.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: It may be that we have had some chats about making this podcast into something entirely separate from those discussions.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so maybe let us know what you think.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if you'd like to hear a dedicated podcast rather than just the audio from our discussions on a Monday night, maybe let us know and maybe let us know some of the things you uh would like us to talk about.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose the simplest way to do that is email, maybe at info at speaklife.org.uk.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be a good place to email.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose we're conscious of actually a lot of our audience do engage via the podcast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and although we're predominantly uh uh filmmaking and and you know face-to-face proclamation sort of Christian ministry, um, we understand a lot of people want to listen to these conversations while they're driving, while they're doing other things, and podcasts are a great way for that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd love to, I guess, help this podcast serve you better.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, are there things that we can do um, especially for the podcast, uh, to make this podcast more special?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh on with the show.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna think about an item that's been in the news for the last few days, and it's the events surrounding Novak Djokovic and his arrival in Australia for the Australian Open.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, what is the story here?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we've we've picked a really short one that we can deal with.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just rattle it off.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So vaccinations and borders and the place of celebrity and COVID.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we'll we'll knock that on a head.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Non-controversial things no one will be that first about.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I think speaking as an Australian, I I I feel like an ad value here.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: You've got to explain what's going on down under.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I would just throw into the mix sort of three cultural things.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um what is going on before we just before we go.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Before you what just give us a brief idea of what is the thing, because some people might be like me, kind of be a bit like tennis.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, Novak Djokovic is a tennis player, which is a game involving a ball about this size.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Over the net.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he's rather good at the game.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: He gets it over the net most of the time.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And he is the reigning Australian champion, and he's going for his 21st Grand Slam.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there are four Grand Slams every year, and the Australian Open is one of them.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so he's going back to defend his title, he's going back, he's going to Australia to be the greatest tennis player in the universe ever.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the there's a couple of hurdles he's got to get over.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for a start, he's been sort of famously um unvaccinated.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And back in April 2020, he sort of said, I don't really trust the vaccines.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, he's he's a sportsman who, like many sportsmen, um are very fastidious about what they put into their body, but he is particularly fastidious about what he puts into his body.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: He he you know claims that his great success is due to certain diets that are like very specific.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, he he does not want the vaccine in his body and he's been quite skeptical and and hesitant about having the vaccine.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: He still has not had the vaccine until um he says he got COVID uh in December and in mid-December he tested positive um for COVID, and that then gives him a med medical exemption under Australian law for him to be able to uh come into the country unvaccinated and participate in the tournament.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So he arrives at Tallamarine Airport in Melbourne, uh he's detained by the authorities, um he is put into quarantine, he is um he then challenges uh his lawyers kind of challenge his detention and he is is he now a free man?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_05: I I think, yeah, because the judge has overturned the cancellation of his visa.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean it remains to be seen.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_05: What else is gonna happen?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: This is sort of unfolding story.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and part of part of it is this sort of uh Australian issue in that it it is very politically um supercharged in that Melbourne is the most or one of the most locked down cities in all the world and has locked down for more days than pretty much any other city on the planet for the last two years.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Australia has taken um a very a very locked down approach to COVID.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and I think Australia is a much more safety conscious place than certainly than Britain.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's quite a lot more conformist than say Britain, certainly than America.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um I once did a rant, I think, on on this program about Australians at pedestrian crossings.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you go to Sydney you'll you'll notice that everyone is just queuing up, like obeying the little red man because you will not cross against the against the little red man.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I kind of I pointed this out on on on a speakeasy years ago.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: People are like, you actually crossed against the red man, you know that's against the law, don't you?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's Australia's is yeah is much more conformist, much more law-abiding than I am.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um safety conscious, very egalitarian, massively into mateship and massively into not getting ahead of yourself, not getting a big head, not having tickets on yourself, not being a tall poppy, even more than the UK.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: UK is very much into cutting down tall poppies.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Australia is that on steroids.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so Scott Morrison, the Australian Prime Minister, has been like, if you think you're somebody Novak Djokovic, you can get on the next plane home.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a very, very common Australian feeling.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it looks like in the polls that Novak Djokovic is not the most popular human being on the planet, and the 60% of Australians are outraged that he would come to the country unvaccinated and think that he can get away with it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: So that's where we are.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: And so why is it what's the story, what's the myth of Australia that means that you end up with a kind of you know, absolute conformity and you have this kind of tall poppy syndrome where everyone's got to be at the same level.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_05: So you have to abide by the laws all the time and no one's allowed to get above themselves.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the I mean the the the joke in England is that, well, you're all descended from convicts, but you know, one of the realities of that is that we're also all descended from prison guards.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I I think part of the founding myths of Australia, there's there's a massive um sort of mythology of the outback, even though Australia is one of the most urbanized countries on the planet, our massive myth is of the outback and and the the drovers and the and the you know working on your property and and pulling together and mateship against the elements.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um which is which is very much a leveling kind of a thing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then World War I was a massive, you know, we had our baptism of fire, Australians and New Zealanders, you know, being sent over the top by the Tofts, you know, the English generals sending Australians to their doom at Gallipoli and that sort of thing.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so Australians are all in it together, very egalitarian, very pulling together, very very mateship, yeah, and not thinking that you're special.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so here comes Nov Novak Djokovic.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, just because who cares?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and we're gonna we're gonna show to you that you're nothing special, and you'll get on the next plane home if you think.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_05: And you have to you have to go to the same sort of detention centre, holding bay, quarantine hotel, whatever it's called, as everybody else.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and you don't get to bring your private chef that you're used to having.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because rules are rules, said Bill Morrison.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which then is interesting because now we've had the judgment that that they went before a court and the judges said that actually he did have the legal exemption and you know he jumped through the correct hoops to come in.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um there is still the potential, I think, that the immigration minister could still eject him from the country.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Even though the law says he could.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, is it rules or rules?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_05: Or you've got to make it.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_05: There's a tall puppy here.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, you know.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: So you make an exception of him.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: Make an example to be shown.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean there's there's lots going on.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's lots going on.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess some of the question uh uh has been around like whether he whether he actually had a visa to get in in the first place.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, presumably to have your visa cancelled, you must have had a visa in the first place.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You would assume, although I've seen some people say that you get your visa online, you say you know, you would have to say I have a medical exemption, they would have to say yes, that's all good, and then you'd have to prove it on arrival.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_05: And it's not until it's sort of approved by uh an immigration official.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some yeah, there seems to be some debate as to whether who was it that he got this exemption from, you know, from was it through the tennis association or something like that, or is it through some official thing in Australia?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But surely I I in my assumption, those two have got to cross over at some point before he arrives, anyway.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You don't the visa must go through an official channel, even online, before you get there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: But you'd also think with someone like Novak Djokovic, whose international travel is insane, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: How many different countries does he go to every single year?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: How many people are in his entourage and booking his plane tickets, right?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's not like he was there personally on the website filling in his details.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's got people who are helping to make I mean tennis players, they don't even pick up their own balls, like literally three tennis places.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: Like you must not do anything other than play tennis.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_05: We will we will come and hold an umbrella over your head for the period of time that you need it to be there and bring you know chilled drinks and all that sort of stuff.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: And and if if there's a problem with a line call from one of the how many have you got five sippies line judges, yeah, yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you appeal to the higher authority.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it's kind of interesting that actually Novaj Djokovic is told, oh, you didn't do this and you've got to go and you know sit in this sort of weird sort of holding hotel or something.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then he what does he do?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: He appeals, looks up to the umpire's chair and says, Judge.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: Overall.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So what what are some of the other like you asked me like what the Australian mythos is that this story fits into?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: What are some of the other sort of Well the th I think there's a big thing about Novok Djokovic personally as he as he fits into the pantheon of great tennis players, right?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: So if you think about the fact that he's world number one and if he wins the Australian Open, he will have more Grand Slam titles than any other man in the history of Tess.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: And or singles titles, because you always have you know the Bryan brothers have won every single one.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_05: But so he is on the verge of standing alone and not being on a par with uh Rafnadal and Roger Federer.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: So but in a way, because he wasn't as sort of immaculate as Roger Federer, right?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: He's he doesn't play.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, t Roger Federer painting tennis is one of the most beautiful things you can ever see.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: His one-handed like backhand is just yeah, it's about as efficient a movement as a human being can make to make it not a hair out of place.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's all just immaculate, and out comes the perfect watch, you know, in time for the awards ceremony and all sorts of stuff.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like he is he is Switzerland personified.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_05: And then you've got Rafa Nadal who came in as this guy who was just gonna hit the ball back every single time, and determination and and grit and commitment, he was gonna get through it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um Djokovic comes onto the scene as this kind of you know joker, he does impressions of other tennis players, but every time he's in a Grand Slam final and he's playing Federal or Nadal or even Murray when he used to be in them remember him.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_05: But those guys, those guys have or about to be surpassed by Novak Djokovic.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_05: And for all the argument about oh, well, he was really the greatest.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Federer won all these, you know, at Wimbledon and Nadal won the French Open every single year.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: For all those, he's outshone them and out lasted them.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: He is the anvil, and they are the hammers that have been spent, you know.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: And and there's a we I think it's a conspiracy.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: I think Rafa Nadal and Roger Federal have worked together to to sabotage Djokovic.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_05: You hear it here first.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's what's going on.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_05: This is the the truth will out.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah and and yeah, you'll see.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: You'll see what's going on here.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: So you think like it's got nothing to do with COVID, it's all to do with Rafa Ladal.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: To do with the glory, to do with the switch, to do with the glory.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you think if he wasn't as good at tennis, people wouldn't be that bothered by this.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: If he was just more likable, like if he if he was because he's not Mr.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Personality, he's not a good one.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: No, but he's person he's got personality, he's probably got more personality in terms of on the court and expression, but then the backwards and coming forwards with his views.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, and but the issue is that he's got this sort of bizarre pantomime villain figure, which if you're watching tennis and the type of banter that happens, and you know, the fact that every time Andy Murray ever plays tennis, someone is going to say, Go on, Tim! It's gonna happen, someone's gonna do it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: Because there's this kind of bizarre, kind of almost closed community around tennis.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: And and within that, without needing to be a proper villain, he had got a reputation for you know being it was always a bit disappointing when he beat Federer in like when he beat Federer in 20, when it was it, 2019 in the Wimbledon final, and it went to a you know, tie break in the final set or something like that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: All of that stuff, the the he was an underdog in a way, yeah, even though he was winning grand slam titles all the time.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I so I think within tennis he has this odd position of being perhaps the greatest of all time when it comes to Grand Slam titles, but not being loved anywhere near as much as Federer and the doll.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's a very polarizing character, and uh it seems to me he is either Christ or Satan, depending on whether you're sort of pro-fax or anti-fax.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the to today I heard two quotes by people.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so Martina Navrat Lova, you know, says, you know, I just wish he would I I know what his views are, I know he uh has his principles, but could he not sacrifice his principles?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Take one for the team, she said.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Could he not take one for the team in order to bring life?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, wouldn't it be nice?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Serbia is not the most vaccinated country in the world, and if he led the way, then others would follow, and there would be life through his sacrifice.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And he is not so he's not being sufficiently Christ-like, sacrificing your principles for the sake of others.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and therefore, you know, he's a very bad man.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: On the other hand, on the other side, you know, people within his camp are calling him Christ, you know, like Jesus, he has been crucified for the sake of his values.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there he is, the one man standing up against the beast and you know, and taking it, you know, for the team.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it just seems like we've all everyone on on every every side has got a very Christian-shaped imagination about this.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just on what side of things you you you land.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, Novak is either the devil or Jesus.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I mean, we're we're gonna move on from this in a second, but why don't if you're if you're watching at home, why don't you let us know in the comments?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: There you go, that's the question.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Novak Jochemy.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Christ or the Satan, let us know in the comments.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know what you think.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna um dive down into um our mailbag uh for a moment here, just gonna think uh a little bit about some of the bits, comments we've had in this week from people about some previous videos, um, and maybe think about what's going with speed life.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: But we're gonna come back to this in a moment.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're you've haven't sitting there thinking about this and thinking, you know what, I think this is the case with Djokovic, put it in the on the chat now and we'll come back to it in a moment, okay?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and and specifically if you're with me on the this is the conspiracy conspiracy.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_05: Nothing to do with COVID, it's just the Nadal Federum.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: Cabal.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: The Nadal Cabal.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_05: Nadal Cabal.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_05: It wouldn't, it wouldn't be, it will be it'll be someone else.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_05: I'll get to the bottom of this by the end of this episode.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Soros involved, I don't know.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean one of one of the like like the one of the big problems is like who cares?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you know, exactly.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: He whacks a ball over a net, and and and he is a polarizing figure, and maybe he's Christ, maybe he's Satan.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: But like maybe he's a tennis player.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and part of what the problem is, is there's been a power vacuum at the top of our society where where after the death of God, so-called, we don't have a religious dimension, we don't have a proper object of adoration and worship.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so what's happened is politics has now gone to number one in our lives, and politics is now heaven or hell, which is makes everything supercharged.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: But then underneath politics, you've got entertainment and sport is now elevated to the political.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And suddenly so many of our debates uh uh about politics are involving sportsmen, you know, and sportswomen.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like these these people, you know, they get up at six in the morning, if they're a swimmer, they just they just follow a black line, you know, down the if they're a rower, they they get up at silly o'clock and just and and we we look to them for why?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_05: Like But within the game within the rules, like it's the most it's the greatest drama, right?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_05: It's the unscripted, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: Hopefully, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: Not according to you.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um but because within the confines of the game, once they're agreed, it is it is the greatest drama.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_05: And and the the one we want to see, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: The greatest drama we want to see is the team that are, you know.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's why the great comebacks, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_05: That's the story that everyone wants to say.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: I was there when not when you thrash someone, you know, 15-nil, yeah, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_05: Or 3-0, just saying or 15 love.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: One one point, game over, right.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_05: But not because you, you know, you what triple bageled someone, six love, six love, six love, but when you were down match points.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: And you had nothing left, and somehow you managed to win that game.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: 2019, Headingley, Ben Stokes on the Friday, England were down and out on Sunday morning.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: And that's champion.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: So to say that it's I appreciate there's an elevation because these people, why if you're good at sport, should you have right understanding of anything else, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: But because we're looking for the hero to embody the full hero, we are we do want the the sporting hero to have moral virtue and to have courage and to have everything else.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so they're gonna be loaded with this because they're heroic, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And because we are messianic and we have messianic hopes.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we're always trying to find a place to put them.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we put them in the wrong place and they fail us, like we crucify them and we like we do.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: not cut them down massively.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's part of human nature, isn't it, to to to be tribal and to identify with your champion and to yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_05: So within the game, it's you know it's you are in one sense you are the Christ, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: Once you once you score that goal, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So who do you say he is?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the question.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some stage on the back.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, we'll go back to that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So last week you guys did uh a speakeasy without me just uh well doing speakeasy without me seeing seeing a behind your back so that was on Epiphany is that right yeah yes it was yes sorry you're quite right too um and we have had some thoughts about thinking of you yeah yeah it meant nothing to us meant nothing um we have had some comments in you've been chatting on um Twitter about this haven't you Glenn uh so Bianca Hotcraft uh enjoyed it she said wow I learned so much interesting things uh so many interesting things about Epiphany that I didn't know before thanks a lot and then she had the Epiphany Epiphany she said I especially like the things you said about the astrology stuff that part was and still is always the trickiest for me to understand how could God use astrology to talk to people now I feel a bit more open to talk and think about it in a biblical way.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well if it's in a biblical way that's good.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah don't just pick up any astrologist or at the backpage or something like that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're as we say if you if you didn't catch uh the last episode we we said um the stars definitely are saying something but they're not saying that a tall dark stranger is destined to come across your path or to change jobs.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: The stars are not that into you um the the universe the heavens declare the glory of God yes yeah they're just not that into you they're not just yeah but that's good and that came up I think in part of that exchange there because you you talk about Psalm 19 you mention it here are you I presumably you talked about it in the did we even mention yeah we might have mentioned Psalm 19 it does because it came up on Twitter in your discussions because you mentioned that the heavens are talking constantly they declare the the glory of God day after day they pour forth speech night after night they declare knowledge so so yeah it the the universe is screaming at us and there it there is a sense of Jesus is Lord creation's voice proclaims it and we're what we're walking around and most of it we're not paying attention.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it funny how we've sung we probably sing that you know we sing that song you know Jesus is Lord Creation's voice proclaims it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: We know Psalm 19 but yet we are like we as soon as we hear anything about people seeing something in the stars it's written in the stars or whatever we're all a bit like whoa hang on a second like and like so Augustine sort of spoke against it um uh like in Confessions and in City of Gods largely because there's a fatalistic astrology coming out of the Greek mindsets where so so Ptolemy comes up with you know he he well he was the one who's really sort of codified the zodiac and things like that um and it was very much deterministic and so sort of the classical understanding is that everything is determined by the fates it's all determined by the stars.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And what what Augustine objects to about the astrology that he inherited is the fatalism of it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: That we that if the stars are sort of parallel to the angels in a sense outside of Christ we are determined by the elements and the heavenly bodies are above us and we just we just accept our fate.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: But in Christ we've been raised above the heavens right and that there's there's actually an amazing freedom that we have and we're we're not determined by the stars.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when he was reacting against astrology it wasn't that the stars are saying stuff it it was that you're not determined by this stuff you're determined by Christ and you've been freed from the natural world in that that sort of way and so um astrology as divination is of course outlawed in the Bible and you know the Bible's got lots to say against divination and all and and thinking that you could you know the future through it and all that kind of stuff.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: But astrology as discerning through the spectacles of scripture what the creation is saying I think there's a place for it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_05: And what's a horoscope because big questions I read in one recently that um there were two men who were trying to prevent another man from getting ahead of them and I was like oh what does that mean?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out that the name of the first one E R keeps repeating E R E R E R Federer second one lots of A's Rafa Namad turns out this is this is an Ostradamus kind of but what is a horoscope right because why is it not called reading your astrology in the back like what's the connection so the horoscope is the scope you're you're looking at the horror which is the time or the hours okay and so above above us you can divide the heavens into twelve hours or twelve houses 30 degrees each for the 360 degrees around us.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so and one of them has been named Sagittarius and Aries and Leo and Libra and and around they go.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so the horoscope is looking for where the sun moves through Sagittarius or the sun moves through Libra and that sort of thing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: And so those twelve which is a significant you know mentioned that the other day and we we need to get someone else on who knows a little bit more.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah yeah um which is true every week but that thing of the yeah um the fact that they haven't they've they've they see twelve houses of the zodiac or signs that is is interesting.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_05: And interesting that you know this the book of nature and the book of scripture would have these kind of overlaps and similarities.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And inordinate amounts of nonsense talked in this area.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: By me and everybody.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and so you you you take it all with massive punches of salt.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: But if if we're at least open enough to be able to say the the the the heavens are declaring something then you know isn't it interesting that there's uh isn't it interesting that there's a house called Virgo the Virgin and there's Leo.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know okay um these these things might have scriptural significance and I don't know.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and certainly because and what brought it up was Epiphany.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: You've got this these Babylonian astrologers who you know Daniel was in Babylon.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well we think they were Babylonian but who knows but but Daniel was certainly in Babylon and there are certainly Hebrew predictions that there will there will be a scepter a star that comes out of you know the Eastern and this will be the great ruler and they have enough scriptural knowledge alongside their astrological knowledge and following that leads them to Jerusalem.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Once they get to Jerusalem they need the scriptures again they get to Micah 5 and oh it's Bethlehem and so I'm not saying you know I'm not saying you can sort of follow the stars in any kind of non-scriptural non-Christ centered way but with Christ at the center and with the scriptures as your guide I don't know you know call me crazy.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're both coming across as crazies today aren't we like you you and your cabal Nabal Nabal Cabal Nabal Cabal dear me's your turn to be loopy next yeah I'm trying my best yeah in fact talking about tennis and astrology um did you know that John McEnroe the famous brat you cannot be serious you cannot be serious I'm sorry sorry stole it from you I'm sorry how no how are you gonna develop it now I'm intrigued now sorry it's fine so well if you missed that episode you can check it out because it's up on YouTube it's our previous video from this one so do go and find it because there's lots of good stuff in there.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is the middle bit so have there been obviously it's a day on from when this was recorded have there been any updates to the Djokovic situation?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've not seen well Glenn said to me this morning he said what is the he said what's happened with Djokovic now do we know and I was like nope no idea we've had that conversation now I've moved on so honestly though I don't really know I think I think I did hear on the radio that he was preparing to play.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: But there's questions I did hear actually there's some discussion about whether they might need to deploy riot police to the tennis you know courts or the grounds where they're played being played because some people are obviously very up in arms in Australia about this.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you know it could get nasty.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's uh it's a very charged tennis game as you say in the conversation isn't it because it's now got this issue attached to it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and yeah and obviously there's highly charged like you say emotions on both sides you could say there's no no love lost between them I'm sorry.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Stop making a racket Paul but yeah it's it's it we're conscious that our listeners will come down on different sides on the vaccine issues.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we didn't do this episode as a kind of you know for and against deliberately putting our foot in a controversial topic but hopefully just providing a space for Christians to have a civil conversation and and try and find Christ in these issues would you say yeah absolutely and I think you know as you said we've not deliberately tried to put our foot in it we just I mean it just happened naturally most of the time so it was in the news and uh it was in the news so you responded so we responded yes so uh anyway we'll uh let you get back to the uh next part of the show you could say that this is the uh the second serve of the podcast some people have been chatting though about uh Novak um Djokovic have they been kind uh y yeah so um Novak so um well crystal Keating definitely he says he definitely thinks Nadal is wishing Djokovic doesn't play so I think so he says I'd go with the cabal for sure there we go uh but Jackie Knowles says Goody has the courage to stand up against having to have the vaccine shouldn't it still be personal choice?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah what do you think?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well I I I think that that is like in in terms of the camps you know the vaccinated and the unvaccinated I'm very um I'm very despairing of whether we're gonna like have these massive sort of ghettos and the clean and the unclean and I'm you know I'm pro-vaccine myself but I I I certainly don't want to live in a world where you lock up the unvaccinated and try to compel them.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_05: Well I was convinced quite early on that depending on what vaccine you had you would have to move into different parts of the country.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_04: Wales is now for anyone who had Moderna and uh if you had Pfizer for both shots you have to live within the M25.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like sectioning everyone up like a tribal realignment but I think yeah so the so freedom and safety you know are are two you know values that are kind of battling them battling it out in that discussion and you know in the in the ancient worlds you know we Caesar Augustus would make a decree and he's like you got to go back to the place of your birth and and everyone would go and there's no sense of individual freedom and you don't you don't kick back against the the emperor um yeah you are very much determined you know from on high and we have learnt through Jesus and through the Christian revolution about the value of the individual and I think that's that's something on the on the the libertarian side of things the freedom loving side of things that says well I don't want to be forced to have something put into my body that is drawing on some rich Christian tradition that says you know what your individual rights should not get lost in the shuffle and you shouldn't be punished for the sake of the whole and you have human rights.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's a precious Christian idea.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you've also got to deal globally with a pandemic and we do have to be all in it together.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's you know it's it's that balance of the you know the the the health concern and the liberty concern which translate that you've got life and choice.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know and there's pro-life and pro-choice.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I guess yeah people will probably land in different spots on these things so um yeah be kind to each other in the comments.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're if you're watching this uh after the fact or we're not being if when it's no longer live if you still have thoughts do pop stuff down in the comments and we'll try and get back to you.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also one way you could continue the conversation would be to be able to join us on our Discord server.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now to do that um you would have to sign up to be someone who gives to us I think is that correct?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously we can only do uh the administrative speak life because of donations from people like yourself.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're entirely reliant on um your generosity so um if you feel you might be able to support us financially in any way please head over to speaklife.org.uk forward slash give and there are lots of ways uh there uh various ways you can give and then of course because of that one of those privileges you get one of the perks is to come and join us on the Discord server and there's more conversation it's growing isn't it growing community more stuff going on there so if you've got thoughts on the Nadal cabal and all those things you can come and I've you saw a conspiracy birthed right going on right cabal the Nadal cabal natal that would be the birth of anyway so well noted swiftly on um we've got a new section now the speakeasy which doesn't have a name yet so we want you do want a name we need yeah we need a name so we want you guys to come up with the name or help us come up with the name so as we do this please put suggestions down in the chat but each week at least for the next few weeks we're gonna be taking uh a brief look at a film um and discussing some of the themes that come out of it and how they connect to the Christian story and there's so the catch is that uh the following week after each movie one of us will have to choose another film but it needs to be linked some way to the previous week's film.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: So for example in a moment Nate's going to talk to us a bit about the film The Green Mile.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: So next week for example could be any Tom Hanks film because he's in the Green Mile.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or it could be any cast member or even like I don't know who directs that film but Frank Darabont.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Any Frank Darabont film it could be that thing.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of like a film tag like tag you it you know you've got Tom I say Tom Cruise then's Tom Hanks Tom Hanks Tom Hanks um so whilst Nate's sharing a bit about Green Mile put your thinking caps on and see what could this section next aren't you?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going next yeah next week in the comments nominate what you've got to obscure but oh the other thing the other rule is more than ten years old isn't it it has to be more than ten years old.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah and that's that is because we're actively working to avoid just chasing the trends as we do at the top of the show.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well just look at whatever's the biggest hashtag and go with that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Also we feel much more free to give spoilers as well like if I mean that's more than 10 years old.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah yeah but also and again and and again and this is something we've talked about uh within the foundry unlocked and our our understanding of storytelling and our understanding of of film and TV and everything else is that we aren't just looking at this for oh where's the uh evangelistic hook that I can get into hey the kids are all into Spider-Man so let's now try and find a Jesus moment in the Spider-Man movie and then we can get them in.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_05: He bites you he transforms you from the inside out there that's it there you go yeah how does Jesus bite you the spirit we bite him right we bite him that's a Pelagian gospel yes we bite Jesus um but the so so the view that we're we have here at Speak Life in terms of films is we live in in in Christ's universe and as we've just said when it comes to astrology right the heavens declare the glory of God right so Jesus' law creation's voice proclaims it that's a starting point.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_05: To use um Abraham Kuiper's line there is no square inch of the whole cosmos over which Jesus Christ does not say mine.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_05: So we're we're fully convinced that Jesus runs the show and it's all about him and that we are made in his image as the Bible teaches and that we've fallen from that.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_05: So therefore when we find a great film, find a great story, what we're saying is we're expecting to see shadows and types and echoes and whispers of the true story.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_05: Because kind of that's the only stuff we've got to work with.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: So Steve I mean so Stephen King has said about writing stories in on writing he says stories are found things like fossils.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Stephen King who wrote the Green Mile has this sense that there are these given patterns and stories that are already pre-existent in the world.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and we're kind of saying yes Stephen and and the you know the the shape of that dinosaur or whatever it is is Christ shaped.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Christ-shaped dinosaur bite you comment Christoph we bite Jesus Lens Grivener 2022 John sticks taste and see John sticks bit and Christoph yeah unless you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink of drink his blood you have no part with him.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_05: Christoph in your bite Jesus anyway Nate the green mile yeah in the street Bible I see Jesus says bite me that's the thing this is a hard teaching dude um so 1999 is 1999 yes uh a Stephen King uh book the Green Mile is made into a um a movie and it's called Green Mile and it stars Tom Hanks and he plays Paul Edgecombe I think is his name and he is a prison warden on death row and it's called the Green Mile because uh the the the floor the mile that you sort of apparently walked the mile uh from your final prison cell to the uh electric chair um the floor is green so it's called the green mile and he runs this um prison in a way that doesn't undermine the how guilty the prisoners are and doesn't question the fact that they need to face justice and that that justice is is in this case the death penalty but also doesn't undermine the humanity and the dignity of those who come in.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's very interesting the way that that story is set up to say we have a place here in which dead men are walking and all are under the sentence of death and yet within that place Stephen King wants to have someone who takes charge of that place who will pray may God have mercy on your soul at the point at which you know the the execution is called for so it's a very interesting setup just from that perspective but then the the thing that's obviously most memorable about the film The Green Mile is the character of John Coffey like the drink but not spelt the same who is this giant of a man uh who is brought in because he's been uh charged with the the rape and murder of two girls and so he's brought in and effectively what unfolds within the story is that this John Coffey character G A C is able to heal and redeem and bring life in a way which causes you to question the nature of his being in this prison.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_05: And there are other characters um uh Percy Wetmore who is a very kind of um vindictive and twisted uh character he's an assistant sort of prison guard and he the the great drama of it is that They're trying to get him off the green mile because he doesn't respect the dignity of the inmates.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_05: He doesn't respect their humanity.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_05: And he has this perverse interest in watching the executions.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_05: And so he's quite twisted.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so the big tension is how are they going to get rid of him off the green mile?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's tricky because they hate him, but they can't just dismiss him because his aunt is the some kind of state governor or something like that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_05: Therefore, they get into this sort of pact to say, okay, we'll let you go up front during an execution.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_05: And once you've done that, you will put in your transfer request straight away.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_05: So I think re-watching it, um, I mean it's about three hours, I think.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um just a reminder, there's such a beautiful film in lots of ways, and raises incredible questions about what do we think justice is, what do we think life is, how do you account for the fact that we have this supernatural activity going on within it?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, gorgeous film.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_05: And it wasn't only because it stars Mr.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_05: Jangles, Mr.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_05: Jingles, who's a mouse, uh, and we obviously just made a film about a mouse.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_05: But that could make is that a link, is that a sufficient link to go from mouse to mouse?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it could be.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_05: Our mouse did not star in the Green Mile, I should say.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's actually because they survived for less than a year.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Literally.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Although, although spoilers, but that mouse might be a different colour.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_05: Ours was white.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's something there's something so Christian about the Green Mile in that it's it's set in a world in which execution is the the machine that is kind of grinding along.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in a sense, the ancient world was a machine that was ground along, and and sort of the the cross as the slave's death was how things operated.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um because there's no way you can have so many millions of slaves in the Roman Empire.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um like the the danger of a slave's uprising was always ever present, and therefore you have to be brutal, you have to crush them, you have to devise like the most brutal way of shaming and killing, which is what the cross was, which and the equivalent is to kind of the the the electric chair, really, and and yet you have someone who shows up on a cross upending the world and upending your uh your views of uh who uh is the guilty and who really are the brutal ones and who who really deserves to live and doesn't.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and and so like in a in a sense, like if a Christian made that film, you would sort of be like, oh man, it's it's too.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's too on the nose, it's too um, but it is it it is like uh passion play in so many ways.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um and and and such, you know, it's a great story, you know.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_05: Stephen King obviously wrote the book on it, but in terms of the the filmmaking, it's just it's just really uh great to watch.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_05: It's a it's a now should say the scene uh there are scenes of a deeply distressing nature.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_05: So obviously it's you know it it has a eight team rating and all ratings on it because it's you know could be watched execution at one stage and all that yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_05: So so which you know the things you can always put the you use that bizarre function of double speed on a film, uh which Netflix now apparently offers.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh why anyone would ever want to do that.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe this is the time to come into its own.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, very busy man, name.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, brilliant, brilliant film.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I think it it it really gets into the questions of of justice and of the longing for this innocent one um who will bring healing.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the way he brings healing is the great exchange.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: It it is to take the darkness and to respond with light.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um he inhales death, basically.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_05: That's what he does, and then is able to breathe out life.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_05: And enact judgment.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_05: And that this is one of the other things you sort of which which is interesting as you it comes up within the film, which is you haven't just got this kind of very simple-minded, I'm just trying to be nice, I'm just doing nice things, uh can I help?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I'm in bad circumstances, I've died, right?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's not that kind of thing.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you actually have a situation towards the end of the film in which justice is done.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: And within the sense of the film, you are completely convinced that that was the right thing.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the the poetic justice of that act um is far more satisfying than if things had just been sort of left to run their course in terms of the the plot of the film up to that point.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And th there's a link that I've only thought about today, which is that one year later, Lars von Trier released a film called Dancer in the Dark, in which Björk, it's a musical, but it's the most tragic, brutal musical in the world.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Björk is on death row.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the film ends, it's been 20 years, so I don't mind saying it ends with her being hanged.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like that the very final scene is like and she's singing because it's a musical.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: She's singing right up to the point where she's hanged and mid-song.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: Legs swinging, the end.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it strikes me as that is that is a tale that you tell on death row when you have a tragic view of life.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you when you have the the classical view of there's the fate.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: And because it it's just a conveyor belt towards death.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and she's innocent, but it doesn't matter.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's the kind of universe we live in, in which you just get crushed and at the end there's death, and that's that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a really interesting comparison, it seems to me, between Lars von Tria giving very much the sort of the classical tragedy, and you you get very different notes, don't you, from the Green Mile.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow there's it it plums exactly the same depths.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: It takes you on exactly the same trajectory, and yet there is you know what do they say?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: The difference between tragedy and comedy is when the curtain falls.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the curtain falls on Björk hanging, and that's it.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's an extra scene in the Green Mile.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's what's made all the difference in the world.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_05: But and also the way in which you depict those things.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not it it's interesting to see how a s a film or a story or a TV show can show the same plot points.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_05: But what are the choices you've made about your representation of that thing?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yes, um another film which obviously wouldn't fit into this category because it's less than ten years old, but um is the ma marriage story by Noah Baumback.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, yeah.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_05: The way they choose to end depict the ending of that film uh suggests to you that it ended happily and it was it was in that sense classic comedy.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_05: It was sort of a nice happy ending, and they all lived happily ever after.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_05: But when you actually look at what happened over the duration of the film, you're like, no, this was a tra this was tragic.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_05: But you've painted sin and virtue's colors, you've you've sort of you've depicted in in such a way.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's the challenge is to say, okay, if you have characters who are sympathetic to the plight of the suffering of the unjust, then you will need to portray those things in in not in sentimental ways, but in ways which which understand the nature of the mortality of human life as being potentially tragic, but with with a with a ringing bell of hope somewhere.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_05: Whereas maybe I've not seen the Dance in the Dark, but um the I'm imagining that there is no such softening of the blow if it's just a case of you know dangling feet.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a total fragility of Björk's character, and and you your heart just breaks for her.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: But there is there is just all brutality at the end, and she's snuffed out.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Can I just ask one question?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I know time is flying.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: But um the power of a story like the Green Mile is you can watch John Coffey and you like when the reveal comes that he was entirely innocent and that he's giving himself in love and all that kind of stuff.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: That can make me cry in a way that you know I wouldn't ordinarily cry in a worship service in church or when I'm reading the scriptures.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, you know, I'm reading about the death of Jesus for me.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not crying.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm reading I'm watching this made-up story by Stephen King.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm a blubbering wreck.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a bad thing?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: How should I think about that?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_05: I think well, it's it's the thing of study, don't just feel your emotions, kind of study them in a way, right?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_05: That's not to say absolutely in every moment, like snap yourself out of you know, whatever it is you're feeling and observe yourself in any sort of way.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_05: But when you watch a beautiful film which has a profound effect on you, reflect on that.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_05: Ask what was it about that film that was so powerful?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_05: Don't dismiss it as oh, so sad, wasn't it?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_05: And then off you go, right?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_05: And don't just sort of say, Oh, it was manipulation and we should avoid this at all costs.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, ask what was true about this that meant that it worked.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_05: And if you there are things which affect us and we think, ah, I'm not sure about that, we should reflect on that as well.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_05: And and contemplation of your own experience watching a great piece of you know cinema or or whatever it is, is an important part of your Christian reflection.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, and that when we just go, Oh, this is about worldview, analyze it, get the worldview bang, and now we've got a you know connection with the culture or an in for an evangelistic conversation, yeah, we've dismissed the art itself and we've b boiled it down to something that it isn't.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_05: Whereas when we engage it as it is on its own terms and and fall under its spell in a way, and then we come out of that and we reflect on it.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_05: Why was that powerful?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_05: What was true?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_05: And as you know, in the same way as I would look at the stars, what is this teaching me about Christ?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_05: As I look at the movie stars.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: And thank you very much.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: We'll leave it there.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wendy Lomont says, uh, I always thought a lot of Stephen King's work as very Christian, yeah.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of his scariest stuff.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of uh ideas uh for a name, I think we've only got one here.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Emily Rodder said talkiesy.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Play on the old nickname Talkie for films.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Talkies, yep.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: She says maybe not the suggestion you'd expect from a 25-year-old, but there you go.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Talkies.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we had any other suggestions for a name, although there's a lot of love for uh from Christoph Keating and uh Robert Pizer, hope I'm saying that right, uh, for the next film to be Galaxy Quest.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Galaxy Quest.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's the link?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Rockwell was in Green Mark and Galaxy Quest, which also has Tim Allen, who's in Toy Story with Tim Hanks.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's full circle, so Galaxy Quest for me.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: We could actually just go around three films.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Toy Story Galaxy Quest, Toy Story.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, we just every film is Tom Hanks.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: This is Tom Hanks.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's the thing.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: We call this the Tom Hanks film appreciation section.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: We've got the T Hanks for all the memories.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh dear.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, we definitely helpfully did.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: We thought we'd add a mailbag to the podcast as well, um, perhaps more specifically for podcast listeners.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you again you want to email us, um, you can send in your thoughts and we might well read them out on the show.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: But at the moment, we've got some uh YouTube comments from our recent content.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Glenn's Boxing Day sermon, which we also released last week as a podcast.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: You may have listened to um to a YouTube comment for that.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was a sermon called Christmas, the culmination of history's love story.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Comment from Erin Snave.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Glenn, for sharing with us.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is wonderful the way you explain things, you really bring the love story to life for me.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that encouragement.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's great to hear, isn't it?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, always nice to get some encouragement.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as you were saying about your Christmas preachers, you did a uh we did a podcast on that as well.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um the challenge with Christmas sermons is often there's a temptation, oh, we've got to do something completely new or kind of find a completely new angle each year uh to keep it um you know relevant or whatever.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean it never gets old, does it?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's the story shapes us.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Keep telling it.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then um this was uh a bit earlier back with the speakeasy you did where you shared about Libby and Biddy Mutter says, Wow, I've been out of the loop, so just watching now.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Peace in hard times for me is like a child knowing that a trusted adult is in charge.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's bad, but it'll be okay.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think of that, Paul?
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, yes.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I think that is what it's like.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I and that's the the thing that's nice, the that's helpful when you think about that.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: When you're or when when you become an adult, you re you realize that the tr people who were your trusted adults, um well, now suddenly you're in that position where you're the trusted adult and you realise I don't know what I'm doing.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: The nice thing is that of course with God, it's not like that.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like we look at God and feel God is the trusted adult and God's there going, Yeah, but I don't know what I'm doing.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we know God is in control, he does know what he's doing, we can trust in him.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, and actually, you know, um Libby was back up at Great Walmart Street yesterday just for some checks and bits and bobs, um, and there were lots of kind of positive things from that.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna have a couple of um more investigations, I think, maybe in a few weeks, hopefully get some one of her lines removed, and they're gonna do some stuff with her vocal cords to make you know one of them isn't moving, I think still.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they said I think they said that you know it it could get better by itself, but it's better to do something.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or she, you know, she she would likely just have a kind of husky voice.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't know what quite what level that means, you know, of huskiness.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um so hopefully this will be something that'll be helpful for her in the long run.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they are talking about stopping more medications.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: So she's gradually, you know, getting better.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, although she'll always have this condition.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, we just keep going day by day.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and thank you to all our listeners for for your prayers for this.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think uh Yeah, obviously we don't know where this podcast goes, but I think you as as a family were very encouraged by prayers from all over the world, really, from people you hadn't even met.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um pretty cool, isn't it?
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people who we'd never come across you know met before, whether it was people on here um or you know, friends of friends, um or even just, you know, as if someone not even really uh well I suppose I was gonna say not even friends of friends, but people would go and they'd they'd say, I've told my church, and then of course it would spread through their church and um out to other organizations as well.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was kind of quite bizarre.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: But also just nice to see the um that's the connections that you have in church, isn't it?
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: That we're one body, even though you know I don't know so and so who's praying in Kenya or the Philippines, and I'm not you know, there's some of those people I can't even work out quite what the connection was to get there in the first place.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um yeah, those people were praying, and um yeah, that's just incredible, really.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, thank you.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have anything else to say, Paul?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, I don't think so.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, oh, have we said Happy New Year?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did we do that last week?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember now.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've just lost track of how many weeks in we are.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think we did, but it probably wouldn't hurt to say if you didn't hear last week's Happy New Year to you.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if you did hear last week's, Happy New Year again.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I'd just like to say to you, Paul, actually, Happy New Year.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.