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Legal Immigration With Integrity: A Stand for Honest Lawyering · The Lawtino™

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino Podcast where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities with legal, political, and community leaders and visionaries.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, Sean Gomez, and welcome to this episode of the Latino Podcast, where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: We bring on leading Latino lawyers, judges, legislators, community leaders, and influence uhs, thought leaders uh from our uh communities to talk about this thing called law.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so today um I'm joined by my guest host, a former guest on the episode herself, Vanessa Felix Corona, a current um law clerk awaiting uh to take the bar.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: So welcome back, Vanessa.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, John.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like he said, I'm a recent law school graduate and I'll be sitting for the July Bar exam.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And right now I'm happily clerking at Golden's Child Attorney, so I'm happy to be here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: Super happy to have you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um today we have a very special guest.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, her name is Andrea Pionkowski, which is a Polish name.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she comes to us um originally from the country of Venezuela.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think she's our first Venezuelan guest.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, welcome.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: We're so happy to have you here.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, were you uh well, tell us about, well, let me just give a little bit of background.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: Today she is an immigration lawyer practicing in the United States.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, prior to coming here to our country, um, she was an actual attorney in Venezuela.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: So welcome.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: So happy to have you here.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me, Jen.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're so she's cool, like a friend of mine.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: We spent great time together.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, really got to know her on a trip out to Atlanta one time.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so, first of all, like introduce us to Venezuela and you know, you growing up there, life as a kid, the food, all of that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Venezuela, the the country with the most beautiful women on earth, okay?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: There you go, of course, of course.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think we used to have a record of Miss Universe from Venezuela.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So okay, all right.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a lot of oil that that's important to mention, and we're also famous for arepas.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it is would you say that that that food, you know, came from your country?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get me in trouble here, you know.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: There might be some Colombians listening to this podcast.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: But let's be honest, it's from Venezuela, guys, it's from Venezuela.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we just stuff the arepas with a lot of meat, and that's our signature.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: But let's be honest, I know that Colombians claim that arepas are from Colombia, Mexicans say that gorditas are like arepas, you know, it's uh it's a highly controversial topic.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: All right, there's and you know, speaking of, you know, kind of controversial topics, we'll have some real controversial topics later.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: But uh tell us about being a lawyer in Venezuela, why you wanted to do that, how that happened.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't practice for too long.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I only got the chance of practicing for almost a year, and but it was a cool experience.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is I want to be a lawyer.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I wanted was to be or to have the law on my side, know about my rights and duties, so that nobody could make me do what I was something that I wasn't or something that I shouldn't do.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: So back in time, I was very influenced by politics in Venezuela, and I was always charismatic and a leader in my community.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that because of my personality, they were trying to use me for political reasons until one day I said, I need to study law, and nobody will use me ever again.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And here I am.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna turn into countries.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yay!
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: Congratulations, that's very impressive.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so I know uh you told me before at some point you had your own radio show in Venezuela.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm here to steal your podcast.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you can have it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: You can have it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, and it was a great experience.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the funny thing is that many people used to make fun of me because they said, why a lawyer is gonna have a radio show?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was no connection on one thing and the other.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And look at us nowadays, full circle.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: That we need, I use those skills that I learned back in during that time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I use it for my social media, my reels, my my advertisement for my firm.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm very glad that I tried it and I did it, and now I'm using it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us um, you know, so you at some point decided to leave your birth country.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: Are you your parents still there?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're in heaven now.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I don't have too much family there, but I still have um my background there, you know.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: The thing is, the country that I left almost 14 years ago that I realized it has been 14 today, um, it's not the same anymore.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I miss what I left, but it's not the same anymore.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like, maybe not all of our listeners really understand the political changes, economic changes that have occurred in Venezuela that maybe, you know, cause you and many, many, many, many others to leave that country, you know, come here, many in Mexico.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: I know a ton that live in Mexico City.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, why did people like you leave that country?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in 1999, a president called Hugo Chavez won the elections.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And under the promises of a change and a revolution and other ideologies, um, he stayed in power until he died.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And after he died, he basically put someone else from his own party to be the president forever.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: One of the important changes in that revolution was to change the constitution so that he could be re-elected forever.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what happened.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's what happened in communism and in dictatorships.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that has that situation has triggered a lot of um problems, financial problems, um, social problems.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: The entire country has uh imploded from the inside, like scarred city-wise, economies ruined, and a lot of issues um in terms of progress.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Just to give you an example, someone who just works for like the city makes about$20 a month.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: But when the that's the salary, the minimum salary for an employee, you go and buy a chicken, a restitution chicken, and it's$20.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the disparity on the economy in Venezuela, it's crazy, crazy, and the inflation is actually a hyperinflation.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really hard to explain that and get into details in just a few minutes.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: But um, what I can say is that uh there is a lot of good people there still fighting and educating themselves and working really hard to with the hope that one day we're gonna have a free country.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think the to me the$20 a month and that and a chicken costs you$20, that explains it pretty well to me.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so um so you decide, did you decide to leave and come to the United States?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I was influenced by love at the time.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I had a long-distance relationship for three years, and I used to come, he used to go, and you know, that's life.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Some people take you from point A to point B.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very thankful for that relationship because it brought me to one of the best countries in the world.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so at some point when you first came here, were you like, I want to be a lawyer here, or how did Oh yeah.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm one of those persons who like to continue or finish what started.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I was already a lawyer in my country, and I didn't just want to be in a limbo forever.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing that I did was to go to USD and do some uh research on what I needed to do to become a lawyer here.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And here I am.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: It took me some years, it took me an average of seven years, the entire process.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it was possible, it's not impossible.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's what you call perseverance.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's a story of perseverance, that's right.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so, how about what do you think?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_04: What questions do you have?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're kind of finishing up your law school part of things, about to take the bar.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, hear this woman comes from another country.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's interesting to hear your story because I think that a lot of times when we go, when we get into law school and we start that journey, it's never a smooth ride.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like my bar experience, I was supposed to sit for the February exam, and that didn't happen, and I had to sit for July.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But staying level-headed and persevering and understanding that this is just a part of the journey, it's nothing of a journey, it's really nice to hear and to see another woman do it too, is very inspiring.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and like I was talking to you earlier, and I asked you on your website, it says last year you guys had a hundred percent success rate on your cases, and you have mentioned that you're very particular in the way that you that you evaluate your cases, and that's a very important skill that we learn in law school.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could tell us a little bit about when a case comes to you, how do you decide whether to take it or not and learn some of the factors that you look for, especially as a new attorney coming in, learning how to evaluate cases?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I cannot just filter cases that are 100% approvable.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know that there are certain situations where I have to be more flexible.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every case is different.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the decision is not up to me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, usually you have an officer reviewing the case and making a final decision.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: But what I can do is at least trust my client.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, regardless of the possibilities, I'm very honest with my clients and I tell them, hey, I see less than 50% options for you.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you still want to move forward?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And they tell me, even if it is just 1%, I just want to move forward.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: In those cases, you know, I know that potentially the outcome is not gonna be a good one, but I'm trying my best to help that person.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in in general, like I think the key is your client.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a client who is offering you a bunch of money, but you know that he's lying to you, I think that's the main red flag.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So don't do anything just because of the money.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just listen to your guts.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I've been doing for the last five years.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Listen to your guts.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I've made mistakes, okay?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I get hired by people who have crazy expectations or who lie to me, and I realize later on.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I have also learned how to just cut that relationship, cut, you know, like if I have to refund the money, I'll do it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have to grow out in that sense that not every person is honest.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I believe everyone, you know.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so friendly, and I think everybody's telling me the truth.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was lucky that last year all I got was approvals, and it gives me a good sense that I'm on the right path, picking up my battles here.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Congratulations.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: We we made some people happy last year.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, you know, you hear I was uh federal prosecutor before this job way back when, and some of the cases that I was doing would involve um basically what we would call uh back then alien smuggling.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would have cases, one case I had involved um a hundred and you know, fifty something uh people from the People's Republic of China that were being smuggled in in a in a in a fishing boat.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, you hear the stories of what people are willing to do to come to this country, and you know, then you are able to stamp the ticket and make them legal or help them, you know, be legal, and you say that's a win.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: I can't imagine a bigger win.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, every case is different though, and not everybody has an option.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something hard to hear, you know, when I explain this to people, not uh we have a lot of potential options.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have books and books and decisions and potential uh things to analyze, but not everybody has a legal way to come.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And some people don't like to hear that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, some people want an option for sure.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: But if you come to this country without documents and then you get deported, and then you came back and you did that three times, of course you're never gonna have any option.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's not because of the attorney, it's because of the decisions that that person made.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not here to judge anyone, everybody is responsible for what they do, but my job is to be honest in terms of the law and explain, okay, well, you don't have an option, you do have an option.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: However, we see attorneys that always promise an outcome or you know, a resolution, and that's what I don't like.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know that that person doesn't have any option, but it's lucrative, and people do whatever they can to make the money and pay the attorney.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, it's sad.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I just prefer to be honest.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: And thank you for doing that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a service.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, um, I really like, and I know our listeners really like to, you know, get inspiration from people who have pushed through and persevered.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so you said your journey was seven years.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: Can you tell us a little bit about that journey, some of the bumps and bruises and obstacles?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love that part of my life.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the biggest challenges.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I started with English, okay, because of course you need I knew English, but I needed to raise the bar.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And USD is really hardcore in this core that you need for English.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: They needed, I think it was at the time, 100.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And okay, it took me some time to pass the TUFL test.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: But once I got there, I was like, okay, next challenge, give it to me.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was law school.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, instead of doing the JD in California, you can go straight to a master's.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I did.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then I regretted it because I had to self-teach some of the classes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't have a professor to teach me constitutional law.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it was so hard.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was another challenge, you know.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I had to learn things from scratch, like how to write an essay in English.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: We don't answer exams in the way that Americans do in Latin countries.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give you an example.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: In Venezuela, they ask you, what color is the house?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And as a good Venezuelan, you're just gonna write 10 pages of an explanation of why the house is green or red.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or potentially yellow.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, the model that we have to use here is IRAC, and you start with an issue and then the rule and then analysis and conclusion.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thinking and writing that way is like learning from scratch.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was really hard.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And memorizing in English was also another challenge.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and being in a law school, you know, class when they call your name and you have to speak in front of everybody was uh one of the biggest challenges.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: But then I graduated and I felt like that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at the top of the world.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, I needed the bar exam.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And when you mentioned the bar exam, it triggers the worst trauma of my life.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, for me it was really, really tough.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I I gotta teach myself so many new things.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: It took me six times.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: I passed on the sixth time, but I I said it with a lot of pride, you know, because I didn't give up.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Another person would have given up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So for four years, I was failing, trying again, failing, trying again, like hitting the wall many times, but I continue.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to mentor a lot of students who are gonna go through the same process, that no matter what, you keep going.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so, how were you paying the bills while you were taking all these uh work exams?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Working all day and studying at night.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: That was really tough because I used to go to Starbucks.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do the advertisement here.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't a good experience.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, those late night coffee shops, a lot of weird people, it was very hard.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't sleeping right, I wasn't taking care of myself, but it's part of the challenge, part of my story.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what was the worst thing that happened during that journey?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: They lowered the score of the bar exam after I passed.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I would have passed at least a couple of years before.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh based on my my scores, my increasing scores, but hey, for a reason I had to go through that, and now it's part of my story, and even my clients admire that story.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, You're gonna fight for me just like you fought for your exam.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think that's very inspiring.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Nope, I don't like to give up.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Never.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's my motive.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that going through these things is never easy, but you learn so much more than just having, you know, a really smooth path.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and everybody has their own time.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I used to compare myself to other low school, you know, um classmates, and they passed on the first try, and uh I thought everybody was smarter than me, and they were just lawyers, and I wasn't a lawyer, and I that comparison and that pressure that I was putting on myself wasn't good either.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: It blocks you, it it prevents you from from advancing and progressing on what you're trying to do.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So at some point, I just relaxed and I stopped the comparison and I said, maybe this is not my time.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'll try my best.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have a plan B.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to pass at some point, and it it was doable.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing I noticed was I was always increasing my score.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's not that I was going backwards, I was always increasing, improving.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So my time would come at some point, and it came.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: Congratulations.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: We're so glad to have you part of our profession.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: So it says on your website, proud to be a Latina lawyer, promoting legal immigration and representing clients all over the world with their immigration matters.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I want to um ask you a little bit about that and legal immigration as opposed to illegal immigration.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's a controversy right there.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we were saying there might be some controversy um and uh you were sharing with us sometimes, you know, you have particular view views about immigration and doing it the right way or the legal way versus not.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so how sometimes when you share those views, perhaps others within your field, you know, you feel like they're kind of judging you or they like what you have to say.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: But um, it's normal though, you know, when you stand out with a different perspective or view and you're against the current, you're always gonna get some criticism, some comments, some pushback.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't become a lawyer because I wanted to be just like anyone else.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: I became a lawyer because I believe in law enforcement, I believe in doing things right.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: One of the reasons why my country, Venezuela, went down is because we didn't respect the laws.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we didn't really respect the laws.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if I see the same, the same analysis here in the United States, just because it might affect me or my family or my friends, I thought it doesn't mean that I should agree with that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I respect this country so much, and I'm so thankful to the United States for allowing me to have an opportunity here.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: That one of the things that I think I should push is legal immigration.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have immigration laws.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they need to be reformed for sure and improved, but that doesn't mean that that gives the people the right to violate them anytime.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And just by saying that, it has been so, so controversial.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm here and standing still.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, give us an example of you know, someone comes to you, I don't know.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, is there a certain type of case you would not do because of that, or because, you know.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna give a couple of examples.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: If if I have a client who is from Mexico, or let's say it's a it's an American citizen who wants to petition a son or daughter from Mexico, an average time for that kind of petition is between 23 to 25 years.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when I have this client who has aged over time, or even you know, family members have died, waiting for that visa, waiting for that opportunity to come to the United States legally.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then I get another person consulting me.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I just enter through the border without documents.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it's just cutting up everybody in the line.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's the way I see it, and that's the way that me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Many immigrants see it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's like a slap in the face for someone who has been waiting for so long.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I that's what I filter my practice.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really do uh deportation removal cases because it's not what I want to promote and it's not what I want to defend.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: I like it, and um, you know, thank you for being honest about that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I know Vanessa will have some things, but you know, we had on here the president of the Hispanic National Bar Association, and you know, she was explaining to us, you know, within her group, she has people from all over the world, all different political views, all different experiences, you know, people that have come from Cuba, people that have come from Venezuela, that perhaps, you know, tend to lean a little more in the conservative or the in the in to the right, you know, because of those experiences.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: Or might have, or we, I think everyone, maybe people that are not well informed, presume that all Mexicans are are in favor of illegal immigration.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, you see like that is a big mistake to presume that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even Mexicans, like Mexico has immigration laws, you know?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And even Mexicans want them to want the country to enforce immigration laws because if you cross to TJ and you see the disaster of all these waves of illegal immigrants from all over the world, it doesn't help the city, it it affects the progress of its own citizens.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there is this stigma, the stereotype that Latinos have to think in a certain way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you dare to say that you think differently, hey, you're gonna be targeted as a racist, as uh someone who doesn't uh support Latino communities or I've been called so many, I've been you know insulted so many times with different names.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's okay, but what I ask people is to respect points of view.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is a free country, and I'm so glad that I'm not living in communism anymore.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I should be able to believe in aliens if I want.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm free to vote for whomever I want, and that shouldn't be a reason to be targeted as the enemy, especially here in California.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I agree.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: We uh this is um a place in a show and a platform where uh we talk about law in the Latino community.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: We don't talk about you only have to have these particular opinions to be part of this community.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think that we can, if we're not careful, you know, divide ourselves so much that we lose our power.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or assume that you have to be part of this group because you are Latino.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, I it it's good to have criteria, your own way of thinking.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if I I'm very open, if I disagree with with certain policy, I'm gonna say it.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if I agree, I agree, I'm gonna say it too.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I should be respected for that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, some some of my clients come to me because I'm that kind of attorney, you know, because I am very objective.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just not gonna say something in my social media to attract clients because that's what people want to hear.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if I if I think that this change in policy, it's good for the majority of these of the citizens in the United States, then it is what it is.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: People voted for it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: We have to respect the majority.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: What do you have?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: She has some questions there.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: She has some votes.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about it.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a very impressive practice in immigration law.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to ask you um what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced starting your own firm and how did you navigate those challenges?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, we're learning about so many things that you're not taught in law school.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like having a business, uh, from taxes to accounting to marketing to relationships with, you know, networking with other attorneys, building a brand, and in general, about the law.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because the law always changes.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And in immigration, we don't have just a book that tells you what to do.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just a matter of experience.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's one of the things that I put a lot of emphasis in learning what I don't know and connecting with people who know more than me.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's one of the keys.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And in being humble to accept that I don't know everything, you know, that I need to continue educating myself about different topics all the time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Take notes.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm giving free notes here.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think because I think even a lot of listeners know who John Gomez is and know that he has his own firm and is very successful.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that a lot of people wonder how do you do that, especially new attorneys.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do we just start from scratch?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do we work at a law firm first, get to know things, and then go and explore?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or do we just find somewhere we're comfortable and stay there?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think getting out of your comfort zone and deciding, yes, I want to start my own firm.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to do, and I'll figure everything out on the path.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So and sometimes it's not even something that you plan.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes just the the destiny is pushing you in in a certain way that you don't even realize at the time.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not that I one day I just decided to open my own office.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was just the circumstances.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: I passed the bar when we were in COVID.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: So there were no many hiding us out of the time.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And even if I got interviews, the interviews just focused on how many times I fell the bar.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like by curiosity.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't see that as a plus?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they were curious about it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I didn't have experience other than immigration because I was working as an assistant in an immigration law firm.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to try criminal law and I wanted to try maybe PI, but I didn't have the experience.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not, that was one of the hardest things I went through after passing the bar because it was so hard to get a license, and now I get a license and I don't have a job.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like, oh, maybe, I mean, maybe I'm never gonna get a job.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing led the other.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point I had a friend who needed an immigration attorney, and then another friend and another friend, and I realized I was in business.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I decided to formalize my my startup in my company.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that as law students, a lot of people want to focus on school because school is very demanding, very hard, and we lose track of well, I need to get out there and get experience because I can graduate, but if I'm graduating with no experience, or at least no experience in the field I know I'm interested in, it's gonna be really tough.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you I believe that everybody has um or has to try something at some point.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I had a job when I was in law school, you know, like I had that opportunity.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but practicing on your own as a sole attorney is not for everybody because you don't have other people to rely on at the in there, like in your office, you know.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't recommend, like, not every attorney is good at business.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know amazing attorneys who are good at what they do.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like they just want to focus on the law.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: They want to focus on on writing briefings or or you know, like they they have something that calls them.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: But in my particular case, I was good with the spotlight and uh the marketing and I had creativity, and I just wanted to fusion both.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was not going to be able to do that working at a law firm.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I wanted to have my own experiment, and thankfully it has worked out.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Some people told me that I needed to wait five years to see if I was going to make it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is my fifth year, so I think I'm doing good.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: So you talk you were talking about marketing and being out there, and like right before we went on air, you did like a little video, a little reel, kind of announcing your plans.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: How much do you do like on social media?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I just use social media for my benefit, in the sense of from if I have something to say, if I'm doing something cool that I should inform my audience.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't really use social media for entertainment.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I think that's an important key because people think that I'm always on the phone just like doing nothing, scrolling, and that's a waste of time.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: We have to be smart and use social media as a tool for learning, connecting, and and promoting your business.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: I that was a lot of info.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna ask questions to John.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: No, no questions.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: No, no questions for me.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now we can switch to Spanish.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, está bien.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but but you know, we have a new president.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: People have a lot of opinions.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna get into your opinions, but there's obviously been some changes within your field.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: Are those coming pretty hard and fast?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: And how are you adopting?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: How is it affecting your business?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's it has been for the last 100 days of the new administration, it has been a lot of movement.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And movement comes with a lot of um panic from people.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been getting calls from even US citizens afraid that they might get deported.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, there is no way you're gonna get deported.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: So relax.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you that over 100 cases that I still have active, none of my clients have been detained.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but you turn on the TV and that's the first thing that you see, and you you start panicking.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: So calming down, people, has been my job for the last 100 days, you know.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, like if something happens, then we will worry about it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: But right now you don't have to worry.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, I have a section of my of my clientele that has been affected like directly with certain changes.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, we have um the TPS was cancelled.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: TPS was like protective, a temporary protective status that was given to Venezuelans and other countries uh for some time during the last administration.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And all these people have been here during this time working legally, paying taxes.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the most recent changes was to cut this uh benefit.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And all these people now like basically didn't know what was going to happen.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do we have to leave?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have, do we have another option?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they created a lot of um, you know, like questions and people were crying.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I understand what's going on, and I also understand why perhaps the government needed to do certain changes.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: The the way that many people see it is that if you find a cockarash in your house, you're just not gonna kill one cockerash.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: You try to kill all the cockroaches in the in the house.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, if you let a lot of people in without background checks, without searching who that person is, you're gonna have a lot of criminals crossing illegally because people think everybody who comes, every immigrant is good.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's a problem.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody's good.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And from my own experience, like I had a lot of people who look like very bad from my country, you know, and I wanna be that specific, but you can tell that there are a lot of people who were gangsters in Venezuela who came through the border and they got protection.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you deport these people here if they are protected from deportation?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: They needed to cancel the programs.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: The bad thing about that is that it cuts the benefit for the good people as well.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in the middle, you know, I'm in the middle of understanding the situation, but also being empathetic to the people who get affected.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a tough situation.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: It has created a lot of stress, but right now, I mean, those decisions are still in legal battles.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know what's gonna happen.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, it in my opinion, it has to be like a case-by-case decision and analyze who is who, and maybe that would be a solution.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like, thank you for sharing all that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like within that, you know, field immigration, there is the uh potential for a lot of exploitation by like non-lawyers, bad lawyers, you know, especially now with people panicking, like you say.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um like what advice would you give to, you know, folks that have family that have immigration issues, or they themselves have immigration issues?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: Who should they be on the lookout for?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: And what are some warning signs?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, are there non-lawyers that try to do this work?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what are your kind of uh advice and warnings?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the biggest problems in immigration.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: That my competitors are not immigration attorneys.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: My competitors are paralegals, uh, notarios, um, immigration consultants, foreign attorneys who act like lawyers.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: They don't specify to people that they're not lawyers, that they're not licensed.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they just promise that they're gonna help them.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And they they have fancy offices, you know, people cannot tell because in Latin countries, notarios are lawyers.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's easy to mislead.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: And these people charge a lot of money, like if they're lawyers, they give legal advice, they tell you what to do, what not to do, how to fill up this form, what to say.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's legal advice.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you realize that you're in a big trouble because you did something bad wrong.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And at the at the end, you have to hire.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you were trying to save money, you would have to hire an attorney after spending more time and money and after having a record in the system.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, my main advice, please don't go with someone who is a non-lawyer.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we kill our ourselves here trying to pass the bar, you know?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that we wouldn't be practicing without a license.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a lot of ignorance in that sense, you know, from the Latino community that they don't know they need lawyers for immigration cases.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully, you know, over time people realize what's the difference of an attorney, a licensed attorney, and a non-licensed uh attorney.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like I I um I have a love-hate relationship with the bar, the whole concept of the bar, the administration of the bar.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um you know, mainly a hate relationship.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it like there's nothing about immigration on the bar exam, right?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing, not even in law school.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: And now, like, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_04: And now you spent all day doing it, and you're like, you know, I guess there's some relevance to the bar exam, but not much.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it it doesn't matter because it makes you like I needed to go through all those that schooling, you know.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to study evidence and and criminal law in order to decide what I really wanted.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: But that's true.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Immigration should be at least a couple of questions in the bar exam.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: But it's there is a list, there is an exam for people who specialize in in immigration.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a mini-bar that you can take after the bar.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: Did you take that?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I don't want to go do more tests in my life.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm done with exams.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we have some listeners who might be questioning because your last name is Pintofsky.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I know that you are a Latina, but you also have Eastern and European roots.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and some some Russians come to me speaking in Russian, I'm like, vodka, vodka.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does your identity shape how you move throughout the legal field?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: With my last name?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: With just in general, like you're Latina, European, all of that.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I recently did my DNA test.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: I you should do it, Johnny.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have 19 matches.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm a woman from the world.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like wow, okay.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because, you know, Europeans used to mix a lot, I guess.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I have a little bit of everything, and that's what makes you feel like there is no such thing as a pure race.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm a combination.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I come from immigrants, and my grandma was from Yugoslavia, but she never called herself Yugoslavia.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: She she called herself Russian because her parents were Russian.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: And my grandpa was Polish, and they all moved to Venezuela after the war.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew up as a Latin.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was super cute to see my grandma with a Russian accent saying, I want an arrepa.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's so cute.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And nowadays I use that combination of my Latina with my European roots, and now I feel more American than an American.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's beautiful when you are able to adapt to the country where you are having a life.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's beautiful to use all those little parts of you and your family as your signature.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, super cool.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, we were talking before uh we went on about there's there's different pockets of you know European immigrants in South America.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um you know, we've got you know big Italian community in Argentina, big German community in Argentina, you know, uh Russian Polish community in Venezuela, German community in Venezuela, obviously.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's just it's just cool because in the end we're just kind of one people, you know?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: It we are, we are.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also beautiful because we it's like a fl like a flower that is mixed with different parts of other flowers, you know.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's the way that I see it.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I use it in my advantage because I I have interviews or um consultations everywhere.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have clients everywhere.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I I recently had a client from Poland.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow and we meet we help migrate here.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: I had clients in Asia, in Africa.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have an interview next week to represent um a client from uh El Congo.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it's so multicultural.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're someone like me with 19 matches on your DNA, that helps you.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: If you stay the guy from the Congo, I'm I'm two percent.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm two percent from Africa.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's my people.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and well, see, I know that you're you were a Zumba instructor, so you got it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: You got that.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: I also got clients from my Zumba class at the time.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: You you just have to use everything that makes you happy and that it makes you feel identified, and and that's what I do when my practice.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: Any other questions?
• 40:59
  unknown: No.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: All right, so um, so I'm gonna uh this is the the last question that I've been um leaving guests with.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there's uh a podcast called Crack.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever heard of it?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, it's a Mexican podcast by this guy, and he always says, if you had the ability to write in the sky, you know, words for millions of people to see, uh, what would be your message to all of us?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Never give up.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I tell everybody.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: With no matter how difficult it is, no matter how tired you feel, no matter how how crazy you think the outcome is gonna be, don't give up.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now, have you um have you ever heard uh Winston Churchill's uh famous wartime speech about that?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I have.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I listened to a lot of speeches when I was trying to motivate myself during the word.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: But do you remember any?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, I just we will we shall never give up.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so it reminded me of you, but I love that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: We will never give up.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: I love that because you know I I feel the same way.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of stuff comes to me all the time.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, people trying to take me down, taking shots of me, struggles, obstacles.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: If you just keep fighting, keep standing up, keep getting up, um, get off that stool and keep plowing ahead, then things tend to work out, right?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's the mental, the mental way to see every challenge in your life.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_04: Now, uh, where can our listeners find you, you know, learn more about you, you know, your website, your socials?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everything, everything that has the Pionkowski, I'll be there.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: My social media is open.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very open with my my social media.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I post a lot of things every day.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it has been great because people like the connection, then they want to see who you are and the natural outcome of you.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm proud of my social media.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: I just reached 30k uh 30k.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's converted into enterprise.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's not too much, but I feel so much.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think I might pick up some viewers or some followers.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so what is your what are they called?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_04: Handle?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: What is that called?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_04: What's your handle?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: What is the handle?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like your name.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what is your name?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: Piankowski lock.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: Piankowski lock.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: How do you spell that for our P S and Peter I-O-N-A-C Nancy T K O V S K I and Lo.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody check her out.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_04: Follow her, give her a like.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: Please.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: Help me grow.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: Help her grow.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: We gotta get her to 35,000 this month.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: This month.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we're in May, it's the first day of May, so this works out.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna make my math here.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna calculate how many, how many followers I'm gonna get after this podcast.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm super happy to have you here.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for being our guest.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Encourage all of you to go check her out at Piant Piant Kosky Law on Instagram, probably the same thing on just the website.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: You can check out her uh website and all the great things that she does for uh people seeking uh the beautiful life that is the life of living in the United States.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: And she can certainly, I think, you know, represent people better than most because she herself has realized that struggling dream and really appreciates what she has here today.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_04: So that's very inspiring to us.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, everybody, thank you so much.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: This episode of the Latino is brought to you as always by your sponsor, Gomez Ralphis, a national consumer rights law firm that represents uh victims of personal injury, employment wrongs, uh consumer uh violations, and civil rights violations of both English and Spanish.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, glad hopefully you can tune in uh to the next time.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: But in the meantime, you know, uh check this out, share it, uh, follow us, give us a thumbs up, and until next time, signing off the Latino.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Latino podcast.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.