Latest / Uncommon Sense / Unraveling the Pernicious Lies of the kind of Sneaky Feminism that fools even the most conservative of Christians

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Unraveling the Pernicious Lies of the kind of Sneaky Feminism that fools even the most conservative of Christians · Uncommon Sense

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome back to Kiss My Prince.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is Uncommon Sense with Joey and Haley Williams.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is episode two,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't know if I'm going to say three,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: two, one, hit it every time, but it felt right.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: It feels good.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: It felt right.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It feels good.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, feelings are truth, and I'm guided by them.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I trust them.
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  SPEAKER_01: They never love me as straight.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know what, Haley?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Follow your heart.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I will.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I will.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I will fall on my heart.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so welcome back.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is a conversation.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course it is a conversation,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: but this topic that we're going to talk about tonight is one that is near and dear
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  SPEAKER_01: to our hearts because it is actually completely related to our life and our story
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: and our marriage and something that I think we're still Recovering from
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: and even learning just how deep the rabbit hole goes and how much impact it's had
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  SPEAKER_01: on our life in our marriage,
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  SPEAKER_01: particularly for the last 15 years since we got married.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that is the topic of feminism.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when we say feminism, I think we have to define what do we mean by that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to unpack that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to take a stab at that?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a lot of times it's easier to define things by what it is not.
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  SPEAKER_00: So the feminism we're talking about is not the screaming blue haired freak
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  SPEAKER_00: Standing outside of an abortion clinic yelling that people should be able
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  SPEAKER_00: to murder their babies.
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  SPEAKER_01: We were never deceived by that.
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  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
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  SPEAKER_00: We never went down that rabbit trail.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not the women and men are identical or even, you know, women deserve all the same.
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  SPEAKER_00: Women are just as good at men at everything and there should be no difference.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not that type of feminism.
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  SPEAKER_00: But feminism is very sneaky.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about
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  SPEAKER_00: the sneaky kind.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the sneaky kind of feminism that tells women that they can have it all,
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  SPEAKER_00: that tells women that they don't have to sacrifice anything to have their hopes
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  SPEAKER_00: and dreams.
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  SPEAKER_01: They can have it all at the same time.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all at the same time and that nobody will be hurt by it.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's only good.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that them following their dreams is the highest good and will make them a better mom.
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  SPEAKER_01: So everything becomes centered around their desires, their dreams, their aspirations.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's the selfish me above all else feminism and if you ever dare to
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  SPEAKER_00: Question that, I will crush you.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: And listeners may be thinking, but Haley, why are you saying that this is part of your life?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And depending on how long you've followed me on Instagram,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: that may come as a surprise because the veil has been lifted.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're barefoot in the kitchen more times than you're not nowadays.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I think it is important to share.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want our story to dominate this entire episode and there is going to be
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of practical takeaways and principles here that we apply.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to kind of explain how we've applied those in our own marriage
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  SPEAKER_01: as we have kind of unpacked and I would say even just unwound the mess that it has,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: that it wrought in our family for at least,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know, probably six, seven, eight years.
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  SPEAKER_01: Really?
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  SPEAKER_01: Nine?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe ten.
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  SPEAKER_00: How long?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: When we took the girls out of school probably was...
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was the fruit of the unraveling, I think.
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  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think it's been in process four or five years.
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  SPEAKER_01: We've been mounting growing conviction and awareness and
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  SPEAKER_01: the Holy Spirit convicting both of us of really what our marriage should produce,
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  SPEAKER_01: what the fruit of a healthy marriage is.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the fruit of biblical godly parenting is.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of realized that we weren't doing it in a lot of ways.
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  SPEAKER_01: We were prioritizing the wrong things and centering ourselves at really,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, just ground zero of our entire lives.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like it was all about what we wanted.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess let's just jump into that story.
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  SPEAKER_01: Where this starts is probably all the way back when we got married.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had a business.
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  SPEAKER_01: I had a bridal accessories business.
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  SPEAKER_01: I started that after making my own bridal accessories at our wedding.
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  SPEAKER_01: Had a lot of fun with that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Started selling them on Etsy.
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  SPEAKER_01: Shop started growing.
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  SPEAKER_01: It took off.
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  SPEAKER_01: Was having a lot of success.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was really fun.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was making a lot of money.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was getting thousands of sales.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was really cool.
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  SPEAKER_01: Neither one of us were making a lot of money in our jobs.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was working in web design, entry-level position.
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  SPEAKER_01: You were working in the hotel world, an entry-level position.
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  SPEAKER_01: We just were starting out.
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  SPEAKER_00: We were broke.
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  SPEAKER_01: Pretty poor.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so anything I could bring in and help,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: relieve the burden from you,
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  SPEAKER_01: I saw that as a good thing and afford,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know, to help pay bills and buy groceries and go out to eat once in a while.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, this was, seemed the only positive.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is good.
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  SPEAKER_01: You keep doing this because this is helping your family.
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  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, we didn't have kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was just you and me.
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  SPEAKER_01: So It's easy enough in that season to kind of burn the candle at both ends, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: Stay up really late and make bridal fascinators and sashes and veils.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I really grew that business a lot from really 2011 to, I don't know, 2015 or 16.
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  SPEAKER_01: Took it to,
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  SPEAKER_01: you and I,
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  SPEAKER_01: when I was pregnant with our second,
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  SPEAKER_01: went, so this would have been, yeah, spring of 2016, really early spring.
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  SPEAKER_01: Went to New York Fashion Week for New York Bridal Market.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: had a booth there,
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  SPEAKER_01: was getting my line,
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  SPEAKER_01: essentially,
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  SPEAKER_01: of bridal accessories reviewed by stores all over the country,
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  SPEAKER_01: bridal shops, Anthropologie's Beholden Bridal line.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are buyers there in my booth looking to see if they want to place an order.
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  SPEAKER_01: I had legitimate opportunities with this business.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was really exciting.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
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  SPEAKER_01: You were very supportive of it and you came with me and we ran the booth together.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was really cool.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was a fun time.
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  SPEAKER_01: And at this point, yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I have just like one toddler who's around,
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: well, I guess she was like 18 months old because they're 19 months apart.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I could kind of make it work, I would say.
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  SPEAKER_01: She's not even two yet.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm still making it work.
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  SPEAKER_00: She naps in the evenings.
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  SPEAKER_00: Your studio is in our house.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Always at home.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: So just making it work and hustling and having fun with that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I also had a web design business on the side here and there that...
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  SPEAKER_01: I had started after my first was born and I was doing work from home,
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  SPEAKER_01: building websites, doing some marketing stuff for people.
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  SPEAKER_01: Again, just like the more money,
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  SPEAKER_01: my guiding principle is like the more money I can make, the better, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: There's just really kind of,
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  SPEAKER_01: Nothing else in my sight besides I need to make as much money as possible,
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  SPEAKER_01: contribute, be successful.
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  SPEAKER_01: I also was really good at these things and it was providing a pretty healthy amount
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  SPEAKER_01: of identity and purpose and drive for me.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was finding a lot in that.
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  SPEAKER_00: After just becoming alone.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And of course,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's easy enough when you have a newborn who can sleep and naps a ton
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  SPEAKER_01: to keep working.
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  SPEAKER_01: But as that toddler takes fewer naps and needs more engagement and You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: parenting starts setting in.
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  SPEAKER_01: You have to actually parent and not just kind of hold a sleeping baby or feed a awake baby.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, it gets more intense.
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  SPEAKER_01: You get into the next chapter.
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  SPEAKER_01: All of it started to get harder.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I found myself, yeah, I was in over my head.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, decided to sell the Bridal Accessories business.
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  SPEAKER_01: Did that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Offloaded a business.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thought, okay, this will fix it.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I think what really ended up happening was I didn't really work less,
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  SPEAKER_01: I just focused all of the hours I had been working on that business on
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  SPEAKER_01: the other pursuit.
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  SPEAKER_01: So then trying to build my web design business and coaching
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  SPEAKER_01: and I was doing like business coaching for other women and using the skills
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  SPEAKER_01: that I had built to that point to build my own bridal accessory business to make
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  SPEAKER_01: a course and it was just like kind of Throwing everything against the wall.
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  SPEAKER_01: What's going to work?
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  SPEAKER_01: What's my next thing?
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  SPEAKER_01: And again, pursuing that.
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  SPEAKER_01: During that season, I remember just all my mental energy and thought life was poured into that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not into parenting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Of course,
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  SPEAKER_01: I loved my children,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I wouldn't say my focus and my home was really the focus of my heart at all.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and at the same time I was trying to figure out what being an adult and dad
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: and being successful looked like you know
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: because I didn't know what I was doing you know and I remember vividly having
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: so many conversations with you and just like and not ashamed
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: to say it men can cry too but just like crying because I didn't know how
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  SPEAKER_00: Not have an identity wrapped up in work and at the same time you at
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: that point were way more successful than me and it killed me
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of times and
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: so I was in my heart struggling with that as well and had no counsel,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: had no older couple and we've talked about this before is had nobody
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: that we were We were relying on to gain, get sound, biblical wisdom from.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Our church was, it was the beginning of it starting to go off the rails a little bit.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of our friends were doing the exact same thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: They had families.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was super normal to us.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was super normal to have both parents work.
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  SPEAKER_00: You put your kids in daycare when they're old enough, totally fine.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not even a thought that you
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: wouldn't just, like, this is, hey, are you going to this daycare?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: We got in.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got in.
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  SPEAKER_01: Of course we are.
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  SPEAKER_01: What else would we be doing?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or not, I'm sorry, not daycare.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Mother's Day out program, like a preschool type thing in a church.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't full time.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, you know, nine to three, I think.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was nine to two, I remember.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a problem because, like,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: at the age that they start The kid is still napping and so it really would mess up
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: the days even when they would go
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: because it would be like well normally naps should be at 1 to 3 but I have
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: to come pick you up at 2 so they are if you even go to sleep
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: at school you're inevitably waking up early then you're tired
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: so you're not really getting a full nap and the rest of the afternoon is kind
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  SPEAKER_01: of wrecked because you're fussy and
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was rough,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I thought this is just what I should do and I also relished that time
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: of productivity when they would go to preschool.
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  SPEAKER_01: We put our oldest in that preschool two days a week when she was 19 months old.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was the,
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  SPEAKER_01: I do remember,
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  SPEAKER_01: she was in the Busy Bees class and it was the youngest they would take,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: was 18 months and that's, hold on, let me think.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: August, because they start in August, September, October, three months.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 21 months maybe.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, 21 months, but whatever.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, she's not even two yet.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: She's still napping.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm amping up, getting her excited for daycare or preschool or whatever we called it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But again, these were not questions we evaluated critically.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember considering that not going That would really be a wise choice.
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  SPEAKER_01: I just thought, well, of course, I have to get work done.
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  SPEAKER_01: Of course, my child is in the way of that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, I have to find somewhere for her to go.
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  SPEAKER_01: The question was, where is she going to go?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Who's going to watch her?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was never, maybe the work is the problem.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's not possible.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It couldn't be that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: if we start to build these principles of like, hey,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: here's application,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: is like,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You should be,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: as a parent,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: you should be questioning the norms of society because we know
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: that society is not out for kids' good or parents' good or the flourishing of
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: a family.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: if everybody around you is doing it,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: you should probably question why people are doing it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, Again, you mentioned this earlier.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like both of our hearts was not ultimately for our child's good.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was for our good.
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  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like, hey,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: if we don't work,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to lose the house and be homeless,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: so we have to do this to take care of our children.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like...
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we want to take a vacation and we want a bigger house and
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: so we really need this dual income.
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  SPEAKER_01: The thought never crossed my mind that I should stay home full time and focus
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: on being a mom and prioritize that and maybe I could fit in some work in the margin
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: of my day but that would have to look very different than it had.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was never like,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: this is the season you're in, Haley,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: and your primary goal is to raise the babies and be with them and help them get
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: as much sleep as they need during the day and be present and not,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know, be rushing them in and out of the home at crazy times.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whatever.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It never occurred to me,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would have felt very accosted by that idea and I would have felt very,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know, stomped on, stifled.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would have, yeah, I would have felt like, well, what's the problem?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you think God gave me, I was so focused on like my gifts, my abilities, my skills.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it all probably sounded really good from the outside.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: my Kindled podcast,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: the very first tagline with Kindled Was work,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: motherhood,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: and the grace we need for both because that was a large majority of what I thought
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: and talked about and talked to other women about on the podcast even in
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: the early days was like redeeming work for mothers and yes,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: kind of how do you do it all?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do you have it all?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: How do you be it all?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to find out you can't.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that was kind of my whole premise was...
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Work, motherhood, and the grace we need for both.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was splicing up my work from my motherhood.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're unrelated.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm doing both of these things.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really see my motherhood as work.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just saw it as, well, that's over there.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can use your skills to bless your home.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, no, but how do I go How do I go build something out there?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or if I'm in my home, I can build it, but I want it to show up out in the world.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: My focus was on building my own little empire, not on building up our home.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that means the people in it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: That means like when I say building up our home,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean just like going to HomeGoods every day and making it pretty.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: seeing to the flourishing and the health mentally,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: spiritually, physically of my children and my husband first.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that could include work, that could include making money even.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: No one here is saying that women making an income of any sort is sinful,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: but it's a real question of priority.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what comes first.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I would probably say that there came a point where your work
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: and business became sinful because it was an idol.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you were willing to sacrifice the primary calling on your,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: which is motherhood, for making money and building a business.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I, and inside of our marriage,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was sinful in the fact that I didn't recognize it and put it into it or bring it
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: to you or You know,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: guide us in a place where it's like, hey, you don't actually need to do this, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like we...
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: But we also made decisions that did necessitate it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is again another... Like buying a bigger house.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is another application.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: you need to understand what's important and what you want and
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: then build your life around that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like business principle is like start with the end in mind.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a very easy, good principle for families to, hey, what do you want?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want out of your marriage?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want out of your life?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: That lines up with what God's Word says.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And even more important than what do you want, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does God say?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and align those two.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So what does God's Word say?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do I align what I want to that?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do we make that happen, God willing, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we may not be, like,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: if we had had that conversation,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And arrived at a biblical conclusion and said, well, really,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, ideally, I would like to be with the kids more often than I'm working.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I should be as the mom.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's my calling.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: We chose to have these children.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I should be the one raising them while you're working and providing.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that traditional idea,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: even if we had said that, like, we wouldn't have been there overnight, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: It would have taken work.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: We would have had to transition some things.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: We might have had to sell our house.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: We might have needed to shift You know, a number of things.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it might have looked like,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: but it wouldn't have been just, okay,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: the next day,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's wisdom that can be applied when you find yourself in a position
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: that you're like, you kind of wake up one day and you're like, this isn't working.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is not only maybe not working, or maybe it is working, but I'm convicted that it's wrong.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do now?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you have to apply wisdom to your own scenario and go,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: well, how do you, like you said, how do you start with the end of mind?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we work backwards?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: What do we need to do to get to that place?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And let's start, you know, let's start selling assets.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start downsizing.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do what we have to do to get us there and then kind of restart from that position.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I, and if we,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: if we take,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: the story to,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: now we're here,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think that both of us,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: the Lord was kind in the fact that both of us started to have this,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: this feeling and this burden on our souls that like we're missing out
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: on our kids lives.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: We, we were like, Absolutely not.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're never sending them to public schools.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what did we do?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: We turn around and we send them to the most expensive private Christian school in our area.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what does that do for you?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it does a couple of things.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It takes them out of your home, which is not what got designed.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then it also puts an additional financial burden on you so that you continue
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: to have to work.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you took a client that wanted way too much and the money was great
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: and it was this huge blessing.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: We thought it was a blessing because it was going to,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it turned out to be really bad for your health.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It took you out of the home.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: It caused an incredible amount of tension in our marriage
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: because you were gone way more than you needed to be.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I was physically in the home, I was still being called into meetings.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: You were stressed out.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So stressed.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one of those things that we finally were like,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think we finally submitted to God's call.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was like, hey,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: the conviction of the Spirit,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: which is, hey, this is not what I... What are you doing?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are you doing here?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and literally, God, like,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe that it was His sovereign will that I even got hypothyroidism
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: because I literally, I mean,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: that's kind of what onset this whole thing,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: part of it,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: was the amount of stress that I gave myself adrenal fatigue because I was
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: so insanely stressed.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even tell you The pressure that I was putting on myself,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: that others were putting on me, the pressure of bearing the weight.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And more to the story is,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: part of this big contract that I had,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: it was a blessing for a season because a few months after I got it,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: you then got laid off.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So for a while, it was the only income we had coming in.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, yeah, for that season, God did provide through this.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Which is amazing that He still provides even in our disobedience.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like he actually did,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: in spite of us,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: he provided even in spite of our own sin and these patterns
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: that clearly were not really submitting to his word or his best,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and his design.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But like then I got sick and had such insane brain fog,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: like almost fell asleep on the highway because I was so tired
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: and just like exhausted from it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: My adrenals were shutting down.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: My metabolism slowed down.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had to go to the doctor and get labs and figure out what's going on.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it turns out you basically gave yourself hypothyroidism because you were
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: so insanely stressed,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: and it was from the adrenal fatigue, that now you're on medication.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I say it was a blessing because it actually made me realize that I was not designed
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: to bear the weight that I had been bearing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was not even physically designed Or made capable of dealing with the daily stress
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: of providing for a family.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I had been playing at it and having like this,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know, like a kid plays with the toy kitchen and fake food.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, here,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I made you dinner and it's a little plastic skillet with like a pear cut in half,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know, a fake pear.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like the kind that are sticky.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've eaten more fake hamburgers and halves of prawns than you'll ever know.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, prawns, oh my gosh.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that shrimp?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: The whole time I'm just like, oh, I'm just having fun and I'm doing all these things.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's all about me.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've been cooking at a fake kitchen and all of a sudden I'm thrown into,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: a Michelin star,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: like the depths of the,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: as a line cook in one of these restaurants and I actually have to perform
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm like, what?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not cut out for this.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And your body shuts.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my body shut down.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, this isn't really fun and games anymore, is it?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: This actually sucks, doesn't it?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, do you like it now?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Here you go.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Almost like, okay, you won it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all that you could imagine.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all the stress, all the pressure.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: You get all the glory.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: You get all of it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can have it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you get a client who gives you or sets the table in front of you of what
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: the world would say is Haley Williams is the epitome of business, right?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: This guy sat across the table from you in a meeting and said,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Haley, if you want it, you'll make more money than you know what to do with it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will pay you so much money, you won't even know what to do with all the money I pay you.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And your thought was, I don't want that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's no amount of money you could pay me that I would stay here.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: All I want is to leave.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: All I want is to leave.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: All I want is to be at home.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: All I want is to not do this anymore.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just kind of crazy that that's how it all happened
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: because I had been striving so hard for exactly that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then I have it offered to me on a silver platter if only I will agree to come
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: in full time instead of just one day a week.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: there's literally not a number you could give me where I would sacrifice My life
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: at home,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: being there for my kids,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: even though at the time they were still in private school full-time,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I did have, you know, Marigold wasn't yet.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Two of the three.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Two of the three were gone.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: The mayor was going to?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: The mayor was going to preschool and,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: and we were juggling that whenever I was gone,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: but I do remember being like, I thought this would be the thing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: You would think that this, in my brain, I'm like, I should want this.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Any normal person would want this, but why don't I want this?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't at all.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just want to leave and go home.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Can I go now, you know, and get out of this situation?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, um... What are you doing?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's, I'm looking something up.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Relax.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was around the same time.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: You had been toying with the idea,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: you had been mentioning off and on,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I wanted the girls to continue at
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: private school.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think I want to homeschool.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I miss them.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because you miss them and we miss them.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And all I could think about was like,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: how are we going to do our life while you're still working?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: With our kids at home.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then you start actually praying about it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, imagine that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: You start actually seeking Biblical wisdom and advice from people
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: who are solid believers and older than you and further down the road and come
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: to find out the thing that got me was I picked the girls up from school one day
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they came into,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: and I had felt this way for a while that it's like, we get the worst of them, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: They go to school all day and their teachers and their stupid friends get the best of them.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then they come home and they're exhausted and they're nippy and they are mad.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hungry and tired.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hungry and all these things like, wow, I'm really glad we get the worst of you.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I remember saying like,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: we spend all this money to
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: send our kids away and then they come home and we get
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: the worst of you.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they're little brats.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember Jules getting in a car.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And me asking, hey, how was your day?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she just started beeping.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what's wrong?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is everything okay?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is someone mean to you?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I'm just so tired.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even talk to you.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is wrong.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is wrong.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is reprehensible for the fact that I am sending my kid And
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: then she's coming home and is so... Depleted, yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's done.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: She's completely wrecked.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, she's emptied.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so we walked around the pool and I was like, we gotta go away.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: you left out the part where I had this hunch that,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: this feeling and sense that I wanted to pull them because
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: that August sending them back to school for the third year was...
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Really hard.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I stood outside their room the night before the first day of school and just was like
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: crying.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want them to go.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, summer had been so great.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just so sad.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm, the years with my kids are slipping through my fingers.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I also feel very torn about whether homeschooling is really what I should do because...
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: What if I'm too impatient?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think I am too impatient.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very frustrated and I'm going to yell at them and then they're going
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: to hate school and me and I'm going to be a bad mom.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to make me a bad mom.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've always believed this lie that essentially I was a better mom
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: when I was fulfilling The lie of feminists.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And my kids are going somewhere else and I believed this lie that like I'm happier
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: without them if I'm doing anything but being with them.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just, it starts to wear on you, I guess.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but I was very confused about whether homeschooling would be something I could handle.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And because I was homeschooled,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was like,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: am I just trying to recreate a perfect, my own perfect childhood for my kids?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And is this,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: an idolatrous kind of like I'm trying to recreate my childhood or something?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really felt like I was the one always waffling and you were supportive
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: of whatever I wanted to do,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: but you left it in my court because you were like,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to be the one whose life it changes.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sacrificing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're the one whose life changes the most.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yes,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: even still talking about it like you're the one who has to sacrifice,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: not leading us by saying you need to do this because this is your life.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You were still leaving it up to me.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I just realized I can't make this choice.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I literally feel so agony.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel agony over it, like just sweating, anxious, just nervous about the whole decision.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I prayed that God would confirm it through you and basically left it up
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: to you and was like, God, please let this be Joey's decision.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think I can make it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I will always wonder if it's the right call or not.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then we were walking around the pool and you said out of nowhere,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: because we were just like walking,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: getting steps in after the kids were in bed,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: you said, I think we need to look at homeschooling next semester.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And this was in September.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they had just started.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they had just started.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was, I think it was September 18th even.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the night and it was like,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was nice enough for us I was shocked.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And in that very moment,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I literally had the clarity from the Holy Spirit that I thought in my mind
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: that moment, like, this is from God.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is my answer.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think there's two things, two or three big things in that story.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can go to some applications because I know we were like,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: the whole thing isn't going to be our story, but it gets streamed into that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's fine.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Both of us like to talk.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we've ever told this story either.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't fully really talked about it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one prayer,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: submission to God,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: submission to His Word,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that you submitting to not only the leading of the Holy Spirit,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: but also to my leadership, even in praying, God
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot make this decision.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I won't make this decision on my own.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to convict my husband to lead us in this way.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: How many times do wives,
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe this is a stupid thing to say,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: but how many times do wives say, Lord, give me a conviction of the Holy Spirit?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I'm just going to do it anyway.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: They say, Lord, help me make this decision.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then their husband comes to them
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: and has the decision made,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: but they don't want to submit to that decision.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they're like, no, we're gonna, you know, it's not the one they wanted.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Two, it had,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had to submit to God and then do the hard thing,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is, Hey,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: this is,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: this is the leading of the family and I need to Not only understand
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: that it's my call to lead the family,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: but also I need to not be concerned only with your comfort.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Haley's happiness is not first.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the moment, although you want me to be happy, you can't be a slave to my
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: happiness.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: What the Bible says is the authority and my leading is what is the gift.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then two, I think it's huge that talking about things.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: We talked so much and we have so many people we've heard from that are like,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: me and my husband don't ever talk about anything.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: You have to.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: You have to communicate,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: you have to talk,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: you have to set time aside,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: turn the TV off, put the phones away, do something to talk.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Telling the story and You had someone that was like,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hope this isn't just gonna be a big advice podcast and biblical wisdom or,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know, we gotta have some
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Bible.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you talking about striving and then like you get the thing, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: You reach the rainbow,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: made me think about Ecclesiastes 1.14, which is Solomon, wisest man on earth.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: To ever live.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: To ever live.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he says,
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Ecclesiastes 1.14,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: he says,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen everything that is done under the sun and behold all is vanity
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: and striving after the wind.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it all.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've gained all knowledge.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is vanity.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is crooked cannot be made straight and what is lacking cannot be counted.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that is what the lie of feminism tells you that it is not all vanity.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: The lie of feminism tells you...
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: The answer lies in one more me time, one more workout, one more business built.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: One more line that is crooked being made straight.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: It can't happen.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: You need your time, mama.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't pour from an empty cup.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: If mama's happy, everybody's happy.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Happy wife, happy life.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the lie, one of the sneaky lies of feminism.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to, you know, kind of encapsulate, what are the lies that both of us believed?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because, I mean,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I believe them primarily,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: but you secondarily,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: through the cultural water we're both swimming in and the air we're breathing,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: you don't even realize that it's so feminist coded that everything you even think
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: that your life is about has been built upon this presupposition
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: that women Everyone is,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: like I just said,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: everyone's a slave to mom's happiness or the wife's happiness,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: the kids, the husband, the mom.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: That happiness has to be found,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: true happiness,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: lasting meaning, purpose, and joy has to be found outside of motherhood.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we hear language like You're not just a mom.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're so much more than a mom.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just know that I don't want to just be a mom.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: We hear this and we understand what people are saying,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: but really the lie that's embedded in that is that any of those things,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: even motherhood, is our identity.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is that our identity is actually in Christ when we're Christians.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a podcast for Christians, you know, by the way.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not for the world.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're the world, then you need a different message and that's to repent and believe.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: But for the Christians who have already done that,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: the message is you are not provided identity in your motherhood.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: But your motherhood is the context in which you work out your salvation With fear
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: and trembling.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a mom, that's your context.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry to inform you if you weren't aware that if God has seen fit to make you
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: a mother,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: that is the context in which he is going to sanctify you,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to grow you, he's going to make you more like Christ.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's one in which you are going to receive the greatest blessing and also
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: the greatest challenges of your entire life outside of marriage.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Along with that, also the greatest joys.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you do not get to, you know, make motherhood secondary.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And again, just read between the lines here.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: We know that marriage,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: your marriage relationship,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: your relationship with your husband or wife comes before your relationship
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: with your kids,
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: but we're kind of talking right now about,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the work motherhood conversation.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: That happiness and joy and meaning and purpose and self-actualization has
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: to be found and acquired outside of being a mom.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: As though if you're only exerting energy in the realm of motherhood,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: you're somehow missing out on the real Well,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: you would just be so much happier if you kind of had some purpose outside
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: of your kids, just keeping everyone alive.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: we know that that has to happen, but like, what are you doing with your life?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are you actually pursuing?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: How are you going to, what's the legacy you're leaving, you know?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: How are you,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: as I might've said in the beginning years of my podcast,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: using your skills to glorify God?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: It can even be like, you know, sugarcoated in Christian lingo.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be aware of this because it's very present on Instagram.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure on TikTok, I'm not on there, but I'm assuming it's there as well.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of, yeah,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: just a lot of content geared at this,
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know, Christian woman for the glory of God.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was guilty of that as well,
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: and I even followed some organizations that were very encouraging of that.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: I won't name them, but if you have followed them, you probably know what I'm talking about.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: They make you feel really good about having work be a central driver for you,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: and they even make it feel really holy.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Which is actually shirking.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, notice how we keep saying primary.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: We are not saying that you can't ever have any work,
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: or you can't have a job,
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: or you can't be a nurse, or you can't work from home, or you can't work at Right.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the lie is that we've talked about is you can have it all and
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: the fact is you can't.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot have it all.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you cannot.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody will pay and 99.9% of the time it will be your kids.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: The kids pay.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's who pays.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that is wicked and that is sinful.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And why do the kids pay?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because the husband gets rewarded by his wife being happy.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So then he's getting a happier wife who isn't making him pay, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he's incentivized to keep the mom happy
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: by telling her she can do whatever she wants,
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: no matter what price it's costing the whole household.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because as long as she's happy, just whatever.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll deal with the fact that dinner's never made.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's never a plan.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: The fridge is always empty.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: The beds haven't had the sheets changed in six months.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Laundries piling up for weeks at a time.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody has clean clothes.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'll deal with that.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just whatever you want, sweetheart.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you need to be happy.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what I would say is that
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: men are just as guilty of enabling this.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll talk to the men listening.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I don't give a crap if you want a new truck.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a crap if you want a new set of golf clubs or you want to go on
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: a guy's trip or you want to have season tickets to something.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: If your wife has to work in order for you to have that stuff, it's selfish and it's sinful.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you should be,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: as a man,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: you should be willing to sacrifice every comfort you have in order for your Wife
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: and your children to flourish.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this is coming from a guy who drove a 2004,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: or no it was an 06,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: a 2006 Honda Civic with 220,000 miles on it and the bumper falling off.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Literally.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Until a year ago.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because we couldn't afford a nice car for myself.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Haley always got the nice things.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back because I've made plenty
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: of horrible decisions.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: But as a man,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: it is your responsibility to go without in order to equip your family
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: to be successful in this way.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, sell it all.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't ever play another round of golf again if you have to.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because there will come a point where your kids are grown and they're out of
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: the house and you will have time and extra resources.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get that time back.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids grow up.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get it back ever.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Your wife doesn't get it back.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're so freaking selfish that you make your wife work in order to play toys
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: and play little boy, shame on you.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yikes.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: He did.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: You told me not to sugarcoat things.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't tell you.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can only tell the truth on this podcast.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not sure how to follow that up, but thank you for sharing.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think the reason you are heated about that is because that is actually a real problem.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a question I've brought to you multiple times because I've gotten
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: that question from women who follow me who say,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: I desperately want I want to be home with my kids.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want what you're talking about.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally value all of this stuff.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: But my husband doesn't agree.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he won't let me quit.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's making me work.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we could afford it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It would maybe make it a little, of course, it would make it tighter, you know, of course.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, my husband just won't let me be home with the kids.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you're shaking your head right now because I know that that incenses you.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why I'm trying to explain the backstory of why I know that this gets
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: under your skin because it's a real problem.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's contrary to what the Bible says.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible tells husbands to be as Christ is to the church.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what did Christ do for the church?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: He died.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: He gave himself up for her.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: He emptied himself completely of everything, including life and breath.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: In order to
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: sanctify the church.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's kind of crazy to me when I hear women annoyed that
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: the Bible says that they need to submit.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you actually have the easier end of the deal.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, all you have to do is submit?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have to die.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have to literally die to myself every single day, and some days are easier than others.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I literally have to die to my wants, desires, needs.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And to be fair, women do in their context as well.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have to die to my wants, needs,
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: and desires because I've got a two-year-old demanding oatmeal now and I have had
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: to pee for 30 minutes and I'm still somehow running around the kitchen serving her,
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah,
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: we both have to die,
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: but like you are called To lay down your life for us,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: and that is your primary calling and duty,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: and it is a self-sacrifice, whereas I have to follow that lead.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And within and inside of that protection, I then make smaller sacrifices.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: My sacrifices are not to the degree yours are,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: and I now have actually learned that firsthand,
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: unfortunately, through my health disaster.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to blame the job,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: but I will say it was absolutely a contributing Reality for me of like,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't even physically cut out for this, for what that death actually looks like.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't made for it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It enrages me because the things that men care about more than their families
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Christian men.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: People who are self-proclaiming Christian men,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: the things they care about more than their families, it makes a lot of puke.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's wickedness in
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: action and worldliness
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: in action.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've told you when people ask about this,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: what do I do,
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: when a wife says my husband won't lend me,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: my first question is like,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: do you have any older, like, go talk to your pastor and your elders.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're a member of a church, they need to hold your
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: husband to account.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: He may need to hear that from someone who is not his wife.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: They need to hold your husband to account and they need to go through
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: the biblical hierarchy of authority.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondarily, it's like, is it a money thing?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a money thing.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of car does he drive?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: How often do you guys go out to eat?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Does he have a motorcycle?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Does he have a convertible?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Does he play golf every week?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have memberships to Lifetime Fitness and the Gym Country Club?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, the
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Golf Country
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Club?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whatever it is.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And those things are not wrong in and of themselves,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: but if you are, again, what are first things?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you're making secondary or tertiary things first things, they become wrong.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: They become wrong because the position that you need to love your family
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: so much more that it's as if you hate golf by comparison.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like what the Bible says about how we are to love Christ.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, by comparison, you will hate your family for my sake.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean he wants you to hate your family.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: It means, by comparison, you hate them because of how much more you love him.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that we love golf too much, it's that we love too little.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: You love your family too little.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: You love your wife too little.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love golf.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love getting your nails done.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love shopping at HomeGoods.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love nice workout gear.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love new tennis shoes and whatever,
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: the Brooks ghosts that Not that I would relate.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: All of the trappings.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: All of the things that I also love.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to love all of those things that are expensive and nice and good quality.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: But do you love your family?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you love your children more?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that by comparison, you could say, I hate all of that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I will sacrifice all of those nice things that I'm familiar with even.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: And everything else is going to be a downgrade.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And buying the Amazon Lululemon knockoffs are, I'm going to know the difference.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to know the waistband cuts in to my muffin top and doesn't smooth it over.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to know, but you're going to have to just deal with it and wear a looser shirt.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, not you.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also encourage,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage any Any men who,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what your,
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: your demographics are,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: but any wives who encourage their husbands to listen to this, I don't know.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would encourage the men to understand that like, and I, and I,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: I will say like, I love, I love motorcycles, I like golf and I like guns a lot.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: When we were struggling and Haley wasn't working,
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I sold a bunch of those things and I didn't play golf and it was very hard.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to ask for God to help me with my kind of, woe is me, I give everything.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the second that I submitted to the fact that I love my family more
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: than I love my motorcycles or my golf or whatever,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: and I started offloading those things.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: And again, just this is an anecdote, not to say I'm so great.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Once I submitted to the Lord's call,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And his conviction and releasing that kind of selfishness for the good of my family,
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: it was
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: a burden that was lifted that was joyous and it became easier to sacrifice.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sacrifice leads to more sacrifice.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a very odd thing.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: That you're like, oh, that actually wasn't that hard.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that hard to give something up for the flourishing of my family,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: for the flourishing of my wife.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: When it's right.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: When it is the right thing to give up.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it is hard according to the flesh.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: God gives grace to those who are obedient.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: He blesses obedience.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that means he gives you more of himself,
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: more of the Spirit's help, who is able to strengthen you in your weakness.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly you're like, oh, the wind's behind my sails.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I feel like I can do this?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I feel like we're going to make it through?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a month where literally to pay our mortgage,
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Joey sold his only motorcycle, only working motorcycle.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's got, yeah,
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: one that doesn't work,
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: but that was from his dad and,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know, yeah,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: his only,
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: his real,
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: his motorcycle that he would ride and go on, like,
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: day trips with friends and,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: like, he had to sell that just to pay our mortgage one month.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: This was several years ago, but, I mean,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: that's the type of sacrifice
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: that is required of both genders,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: of both the man and the woman,
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: ultimately,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: but The man is leading and is the head and is supposed to be modeling that.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee you,
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: if your husband is modeling that,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to be inspired to not
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: complain about every little thing you have
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: to give up to.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to not then complain about your old floors or your old couch.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Your car.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're going to suddenly have to shut your mouth because you can't be
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: a spoiled little brat about every little thing that isn't as good as
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: the next family.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or you shouldn't be a spoiled little brat.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where we're going with this.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what else do we have?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: So another question that I sometimes get is...
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do I talk to my husband if he's against this?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: If he doesn't want me to stay home, what can I say?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you said first I think your answer was to go to church leadership
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: and have them talk to him primarily?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: The wife should seek wise counsel from some, if she,
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: hopefully she has some Titus 2 type women in her orbit that she knows
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: and can confide in and talk to.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: What I don't think would be helpful is like going to your husband and be like,
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: if you don't let me do this, I'm going to church leadership.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't think that that's helpful.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of contentious.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it would be better to,
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know, sit down with your husband and And level with him.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they've done this before,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: but say, hey, honey, I am feeling convicted that our kids are growing up.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be with them.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have a desire.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to do?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you want me to do this?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a money thing?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've had people we've known whose husbands Verbalize,
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you're capable of teaching our children.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a whole other ball of wax, but that is something that
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: you kind of need to understand.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's the motivator?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's the motivator?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's the heart?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then attack it from there.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a money thing, You know, then it is, well, we need to figure out.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then it's a value.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think the question is always, what is the heart motive behind this?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because is this a, hey, if you stop working, we can't afford to put food on the table.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a very different conversation from, well,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: if you stop working, we can't go on our two week vacation every spring to Florida.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what else?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is that it?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: So luxury.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the bare essentials.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the bare minimum.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you stop working, then we can't lease two brand new cars every two years.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, got it.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about, you know, yeah, like it's what people think of us.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got a heart.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now we've revealed there's an x-ray that we've taken of the heart and we can see
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: that the problem is actually like a root cause of sin.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's,
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: we want people to think well of us,
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: that we have fear of man and more than we have fear of God,
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: we're really living According to a really worldly standard,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: and now we can get somewhere.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what does Jeff say?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Emotions are dashboard indicators, right?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ask your husband and he gets angry, well, anger is a secondary emotion.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, what is that dashboard indicator?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is it, yeah, he has a comfort, he wants to be comfortable.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to be able to do all of the things,
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: or he wants to keep up with the Joneses, or whatever it is.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, I think if you come to an impasse, you seek biblical counseling.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's the type of thing that if you don't address it,
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't figure it out,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It will breed some crazy resentment as your kids get older.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not like crazy resentment.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think my mom would have loved to have stayed home with us and not work.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she still brings it up.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: She still brings up how sad she is.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: It still marks her and makes her sad to think about.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: To the verge of tears every time she talks about Us having to go to Carolyn's house
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: after school who was horrible.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: She was awful.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: It just breaks her heart every time.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality was They couldn't afford to do.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were poor.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: in that reality, if she would not have worked, we would not have been able to live.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, it was their reality.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there may have been,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know, again,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: like hindsight's 20-20,
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: there may have been ways,
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: if that had been a priority,
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that she would say it even was at the time,
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: but let's say that it had been a priority and that there would have been
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: a route around it.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then in the spirit of 1 Corinthians 10.31,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: you can say, so whether you eat or drink, do it all to the glory of God.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you work outside the home or in, do it all to the glory of God.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not a justification to make secondary things primary things.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not a justification to make work an identity level pursuit
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: where you are getting meaning,
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: purpose,
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: identity, fuel,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: self-actualization, building up your own self-image in your mind, feeling good.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I say self-actualization,
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: I just mean like this is how you feel good about yourself every day and how you go,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay, I'm okay.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I did this today so I can report back to myself that I'm fine.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in right standing somewhere because this person said I'm doing a good job on
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: the team because this person said that they're considering me for the next role.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know an awful lot about corporate America for so long.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Joey, I've swam in the waters of feminism long enough to know my way around.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, yeah, I think that, what was I saying?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: You distracted me.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even know what I was saying because you weren't listening, were you?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's identity.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: If work becomes your
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: identity,
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: and I would say that that's true for men and women,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: that's a trap.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this is probably a whole other conversation because we're already at almost
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: an hour where like men,
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: this is not a justification for men to treat their work like it is more important
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: than their family either.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Big time.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Different conversation though for another day.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I just need a solo.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you should start a podcast called Kiss My Grits.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Kiss My Grits 2 again.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Kiss My Grits again.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's called Work, Fatherhood, and the Grace We Need for Both.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Even that tagline, it makes me want to throw up in my own mouth.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's work is first.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was just about to say.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was going to say it.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to say it.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: I had the thought first.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Work is first, motherhood is second.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: And grace is last.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought that too.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Motherhood.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Motherhood's second?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: But like, it's just, it's so backwards.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it just shows like, the priorities were literally right there in front of me.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Work is my focus.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Motherhood is something that I'm kind of, it's a default.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am a mom, so got to throw that in there.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll probably need some grace for it.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, too,
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: that looking back on things,
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: and I think you've probably deleted a lot of the
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: episodes back then,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe the
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: majority of those people have now deconstructed Yes.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are liberals and deconstructed and or don't follow me
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: and could not stand me if they ever saw any of my content.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because you have grown to Biblical Christianity.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not the scratching, itching ears, feel-good, pro-feminism-lite Christian version.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's Christianized up.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's churched up.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's really what it was.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was churched up feminism.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt so good.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Churched up dirt.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Joseph Diarte, stop trying to churched up dirt.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is from Joe Dirt, the movie.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen it.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just know the line because he says it all the time.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: We quote a lot of movie lines.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: So should we leave with like some application?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Some application.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: You go.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Pray a lot.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not that God, Lord, give me all of the desires of my heart.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I really want this.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like supplication,
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: like telling God what you want is okay,
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: but it should not be the only thing you're praying for, right?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: It should be.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: God, your will be done.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: I long and desire to do it.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what is your will?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Help me submit.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: And show me your will.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the best way that God shows us will is through the scriptures.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: So study your Bible as well.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Get wise counsel.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not in a church that has older people
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: that are actively willing to meet
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: and do something like find a church.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or even just talk to you at some Even if you meet
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: for coffee a one-time thing,
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: it doesn't have to be an ongoing deal.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Be known by someone.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's older than you and give you some advice.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to your spouse.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Actually have a conversation.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Say hard things.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even there have been times where it's like... We should do a whole episode on that though.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there have been times where we've been throughout our day and it's like,
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have to talk to you about this thing tonight.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like...
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: We don't put it on the calendar because we're not those type of people,
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like we know that it's happening.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: We know we're talking about this thing tonight.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here you go.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a man listening to this podcast,
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: give up what you need to give up in order to give yourself the freedom
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: to allow your wife to work as little as possible.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that as someone who has done it, as someone who continues to do it, give it up.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, no one actually cares what type of truck you drive.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: No one actually cares what type of golf clubs you have.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: No one actually cares if you have a motorcycle or not, or a boat.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever stupid thing you want about it.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody actually cares.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll speak to the women because we can't forget about them.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I would just say if you're a woman who's struggling with this and is like,
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: but I really love working and I'm afraid of letting it go
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: because I know it has become part of my identity.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid that I'm not going to be content in my motherhood.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: That I'm not going to be patient enough to be with my kids.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: That I can't sign up for this life.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then I would say, that is exactly where you should be.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you are not enough, then Christ has to be enough for you.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you actually have to depend on Him.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to admit to Him, I can't do this on my own.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not enough.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sufficient.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: But he says, my strength is made perfect in your weakness and my grace is sufficient for you.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: So then when I am weak, then I am strong.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: When I am weak enough to actually admit that I can't do it on my own,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: then suddenly I am strong because it is now not my strength that fuels me,
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: it is Christ.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is not my ability,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: it is not my level of current patience,
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: not the level of How many times I can hear the same question asked before I explode
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: that I am bound by,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: but it is Christ in me giving me and arming me with a supernatural capacity
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: to Be patient with my kids,
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: but then even when I'm not,
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: when I fail and I do mess up,
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: to then have the conviction of the Spirit to go back and repent and model repentance
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: and repairing the relationship,
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: asking for forgiveness,
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: and then telling my kids,
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually,
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: mommy sins too,
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: and I have to ask for forgiveness from God just like you do,
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: and they get to see you not be a little hypocritical Pharisee who pretends
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: that you're perfect all the time because you think you are able to be perfect
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: if only you get to have all of your little ducks in a row that you need in order
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: to be a good mom, right?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was the longest sentence I've ever heard.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just call me Paul.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was just about to say.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: Paulette.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of my head.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Paulina.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Paulina, alright.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Paula.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Paula.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: Paula.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love the quote by Spurgeon.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: That says, I have learned to kiss the waves that throw me up against the rock of ages.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is a great place to,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: that's what we should strive to have as parents and as married people and
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: as believers is the waves of difficulty that come from That's when you're going
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: to start growing right when we are thrown by the world into Christ.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is when we find our solid foundation.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is when we finally have a sure footing from which to then grow.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sorry,
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: but you're not able to grow as long as you think the growth is coming from
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: within you by what you can achieve and grow and manufacture in your own life.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to be very stagnant and very fruitless and very empty handed at the end of the day.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Your basket is going to be empty because actually you're not growing any of the produce.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've heard it said by various people, fruit is heavy.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, bearing fruit is heavy.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you have a fruitful life,
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: the weight of bearing that fruitful life,
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's children,
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: whether that is a fruitful homeschool that you are educating children in your home,
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: when you have a lot of bathrooms to clean,
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, like fruit is heavy and it costs something to produce.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so don't be surprised when it costs you and it's costly.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's expensive in terms of your patience,
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of your resources,
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: your time,
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: the things that you didn't get to that day that you had hoped you would get to.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is very costly,
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: but it is the most valuable and joy-filled pursuit that you could ever embark upon.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's actually the one that God has for you.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a mom,
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: Then you can know for sure that God intends for you to be fruitful
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: in your motherhood.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: If he made you a mom,
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: you can know that all of these verses in scripture about,
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know, my son,
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: like, do not forget your mother's instruction and bind her wisdom around your neck.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, that would imply that you have wisdom to give and that you're actually giving it.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: So how are you giving it?
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: How are you pouring into your kids?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: How are you teaching and training them?
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: How are you equipping them for the next phase of their life?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: How are you Talking to them about things that are going on in the world in a kid-friendly way.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: How are you letting them into the complexities of the world in which we all live,
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: but they're going to inherit,
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: and letting them know these are things that are happening in the world today,
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: you guys, and in an age-appropriate way.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: If your kid's getting home at 4 p.m.,
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: you're rushing around to get dinner ready by Or even if,
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: your kid's actually getting home more like 5.45, right,
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: after sports,
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: because we just went through a season where volleyball was 4 to 5.30 every day.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the norm for a lot of kids year-round, several days a week.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your kid's getting home at 6 o'clock.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have dinner as a family.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: You maybe sit down together for 45 minutes, and maybe 15 of that are quality conversation.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: The kid goes to finish their homework in their room.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you clean up the kitchen, sit down, watch a show.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: You've maybe had 15 minutes.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: How are you actually doing the things you're supposed to be doing in your family's life?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Start asking those questions.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Am I being faithful?
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: Am I just telling myself I'm doing it, but I'm not actually doing it ever?
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of the parable of the servants, right?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: The master leaves, leaves talents with the servants.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there's one, there's one servant who doesn't do anything with the talents.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what does the master say when he gets back?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: He says, you wicked servant, you wicked servant.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not, oh, it's okay.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: You did your best.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: You tried your hardest.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: He said, no, you wicked servant.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can't pour from an empty cup.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I understand.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't get your matcha tea pumpkin latte today.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm empathizing with you.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, he says you were wicked.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have squandered what I have entrusted.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and that's where I, and that's,
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh, we could talk for hours about this.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: Parents don't understand,
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: and I think we still don't understand,
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: we're continuing to grow in our understanding of the weightiness of parenthood and
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that we are the stewardship of our children and the fact
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: that I really don't want to stand in front of the Lord one day and have him say,
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: you wicked servant.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: You squandered the four children I gave you to shepherd and steward.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you joking?
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you wicked servant,
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: you squandered the children I gave you to go be an executive somewhere,
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: to go travel way too much because you wanted to climb the ladder because you wanted
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: a new Corvette or you wanted to take three vacations a year or you wanted to have
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: a lake house or you wanted this or you wanted this,
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: all those things that don't actually matter.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: You wicked servant.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's some fire, Joey.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're at 110 here.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: We could truly,
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: we could go out for hours, but we'll save the rest for a future episode.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think the next one might need to be how to communicate with your spouse or connect or talk.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe I was thinking this, we should probably get like a Q&A.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we could do some question answers.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I actually already got a bunch of like suggestions
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: and you know offered like I asked what would you want me to talk about.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Should we also talk about the dinner you made tonight?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you want.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was insane.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Homemade mac and cheese, burgers, beef, tallow, double fried french fries with flaky salt.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was so It was.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about it.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was so good.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about it.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still thinking about dinner.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was all worth it because, yeah, that was like six hours ago.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're still thinking about dinner.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: A way to a man's heart really is through a stomach.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been Uncommon Sense.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: AKA Test My Grits.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't like it,
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are you really gonna fail me?
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: The other name?
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blanking.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blanking.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Stop.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely failing everyone right now.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sit on it?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like it...
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Kiss my grits.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: No!
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's another one!
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Take a hike?
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a hoot.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I wish you could see my face right now.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: My jaw is on the floor.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a hoot.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's try that again.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like it...
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a hoot.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: You apparently give a lot of hoots because you didn't even remember.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, thanks for joining in guys.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're sorry this went long.
• 1:12:12
  [music]