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The Dirty Truth About Clean Brands- Panel Discussion · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I don't want to take too much time, but I wanted to pop in before the episode starts and really emphasize that this has been one of the most interesting projects I have worked on for skincare anarchy thus far.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to keep this going and make it a series.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're somebody in the clean beauty space and you want to talk about this stuff, you want to expose questions that are never really addressed, then please reach out to me.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're especially if you're an entrepreneur or an editor or a PR agency that's looking to, you know, really highlight some of the great practices that uh their brands are doing to add to this overall protocol that we could create as an industry for regulating clean beauty and really, you know, providing a blueprint of safe practices, um, you know, a way to really approach it if you're new to the space.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: That would be amazing.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to make this happen.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think this should be a multidisciplinary, um, you know, cross-industry collaboration.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very much open to that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Please reach out to me directly.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can email me Ecta at Skincare Anarchy Podcast.com.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know my name can be hard to spell sometimes, so it's EKTA at skincareanarchy podcast.com.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So reach out to me and let me know.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And also tune in for this episode.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're really gonna love it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And let us know what you think in the comments.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Leave lots of feedback.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, guys, and thanks for tuning in.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is going to be one of the most awesome conversations that has been, you know, long time in the making.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: It really needs to have happened a long time ago.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to be here today.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have with me um three amazing women who represent um three amazing brands.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, first, I want to introduce Janelle Haley, who is with um Olika and Terasana, um, Kimberly Carroll, who is also with uh Terasana, and then Taylor Statten, who is with uh Pipette, which is a uh baby care line.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, ladies.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited about this panel and um you know moderating.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would love to just you know get started if we can give a little bit of background um on each of the brands, you know, that'd be a great place to start.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're so excited to be here.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's my honor.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that we're doing this, and I want to get started with Janelle.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, Janelle, maybe you could give us a little bit of background on yourself and um your role with Olika.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I am the marketing lead at Olika.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: I handle marketing and innovation, and I'm super excited to be here to talk to you about this incredible brand.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: Olika is a clean wellness brand, and we're really reimagining personal hygiene and everyday essentials by focusing on design.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so we really take a lot of effort to make sure that our products are not only functional, but they have beautiful forms and they're ergonomic, they're inspired by nature, and they also have incredible experiences that are clean from our essential oil fragrances to our beautiful hydrating flower um uh formulas.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: We just really want to make sure that we're offering moments of delight and joy to everyday essentials.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's and also um everyone listening, Oliga makes the best hand sanitizer.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like the packaging is phenomenal.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can't live without them.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for uh for that.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um next, I'm going to ask uh uh Kim, Kimberly, if you could give us a little bit of background about yourself.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I'm in charge of e-commerce.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for Terra Sana, it's been a really interesting adventure.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So Terasana is a it is a clean clinical wellness brand.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we've launched one product.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: There are more fun things to come, but it's really about being clean, not only in terms of the ingredients that are in the bottle, but the whole process all the way back to uh like the source ingredients.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So being clean from how it's created, water use, land use, um, you know, all the way through um what ends up in the bottle.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the formulas are fermentation-based, which is also it's an incredibly cool science.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's this beautiful blend of um smart science and clean ingredients.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in the clinical wellness space, there just aren't a lot of players yet.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we're having um we have a lot of fun things in store.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's so exciting.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm all about the science.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And also, guys, the one product that she mentioned is phenomenal.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just that it's one product, it's a very, very beautiful uh serum.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really, really have, you know, I've been enjoying it a lot.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Kimberly, for that beautiful uh introduction.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um, last but not least, Taylor Staten.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to tell us about Pipette and your role in the company.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: So I head up brand marketing over at Pipette.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_05: When we say present hip is the name for it, and we launched in um right around Labor Day in 2019, really focusing in the baby care and mom care space and saw great success using our clean formulas with a minimalistic approach and really expanding within the family categories this year.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_05: So taking everything from building formulas that baby skin will go ahead and recognize and really carrying that all the way through for the entire family.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so such an awesome point that, like, if it works for babies and if it works on newborn skin, then you know it's products that you can really trust.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really great.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to actually get started with this panel and um ask all of us to kind of start off by talking about the idea of clean beauty and what it really means to all of us in terms of not only the brands, but even on a personal level, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to like just kind of, you know, whoever wants to go first, like just kind of what do you think about it?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you hear clean beauty, like what comes to your mind and what are things that you are thinking about from a business standpoint and from like the brand standpoint?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, maybe Taylor, you can you can get us started.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, with Clean Beauty, I really think it's something where it's looking at holistically.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_05: You're not just looking at, oh, is this made with clean formulas?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_05: But what what are they doing sustainability?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: What are they doing for pop impact and taking it beyond that?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_05: Are they going ahead and doing clinical testing?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not just a one-off as far as you know, focusing on we only use one clean ingredient, but really looking at it holistically, even all the way down to the supply chain level, as far as are these ingredients being sourced sustainably?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_05: Is there like positive impacts?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that for us, and I don't want to speak out of context, but I think for Kimberly and Janelle both with their brands, that's something that we share in common as far as looking at it big picture and not just siloing the ingredients as a one-off.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I completely resonate with that.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I want to follow up, Janelle.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are you what comes to your mind with like just the phrase clean beauty?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's a tricky phrase, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: There's different definitions and meanings.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so um I think there's really three things that come to mind safety, transparency, and effectiveness.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so safety is really about creating products that are good for skin, good for people, but also good for the planet.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, as you're purchasing these products, you're actually not making a trade-off between something you need for you and something that's good for the planet.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's really important.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just about the impact for use, but it's really about empowering people to have products that are really good for you.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it's super, super important to be transparent about everything you're doing, particularly because there is no definition for what clean really means.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's about doing um putting your ingredients list online, um even the fragrance ingredients list online, really showing as much as you can what's happening throughout your production lifecycle that Taylor was talking about.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: And the last one is effective, which really just means it works.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: We want to do all these things and create products that work and not compromise on that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think there's a false narrative and a false trade-off that you can have clean and sustainable products, but they don't really work.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think all of our brands are all about the science and making sure that we we have really amazing products.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know what that makes me think of is almost like the the if I were to sum up one in one word what you everything you said, I would say optimization because that's really what it is, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean it's I completely understand what you're saying.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and before I don't want to start ranting yet, but like I want to ask, uh obviously Kimberly, I want you to really chime in here and tell us your perspective of just you know the word and the phrase and what it means to you.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna say yes, and to the to um what has already been said, I 100% agree with that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: But but and in this case, I think it's becoming an advocate, even when the customer doesn't know they need an advocate.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that as you as you get immersed in the space, you learn so much.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, like just because it's natural doesn't mean it's good for you, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Poison ivy, for example.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's natural, I wouldn't want to rub it all over my body.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, but there's so that all comes down to education and making education accessible and um putting it in context because context is everything.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and like sharing the journey with the consumer, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: That um being clean and being good for the environment um and and good for the planet as a whole, it's a it's a journey, it's progress, not perfection.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so sort of being honest about that and just really being an advocate for understanding um and bringing people along with you.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you brought up like, you know, like the idea of good for you, because I think that's really that's such a so much at the heart of like what I've noticed as a consumer around clean beauty, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is like it's good for you.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's good, it's a good thing.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I often wonder in what context, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can be good to ourselves and like you said, good to the planet, good to the environment, good to, you know, um the communities that we interact with.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But that definition, you know, like I just want to like start this panel off by my opinion, which is that I think clean beauty is less of like a like specific category and more of an umbrella term.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where like the you know, um the conversation really kind of gets interesting because you have all these other words that come in.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, Janelle, you mentioned sustainability.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to like kind of talk about that aspect of clean beauty as a sustainable um, you know, component where we are now looking for brands that are claiming to be clean brands, but they are also, you know, really focused on sustainability.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for um you guys to, you know, just whoever wants to chime in on that and and talk about the sustainable aspect and how it really fits into creating a clean brand.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Janelle, you can probably if you can get us started, that'd be great.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I will start off with Alika.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we we thought a lot about this, um, and it's actually really fundamental to our our business model, and it's actually why we launched our hand sanitizers to be refillable.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, gone are the days of single-use plastic.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so we created a product that could be a forever product and a refill system to offer value to the consumer.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what we're really striving for.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: I think Kimberly hit the nail on the head.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's a journey.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna continue to find ways to innovate and bring the sustainability in, um, but incorporating it to our business model is fundamental.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, our ingredients, um, you know, we want to produce them in a sustainable way.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we're looking at our impact on the workers and people that we work with, et cetera.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but for us, it's really, really about deeply embedding it in our business model to ensure, you know, we're doing everything we can for the planet.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, I think you brought up a really good point.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the workers, and I want to uh come back to that point actually.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask um uh, you know, I guess Taylor next, uh, if you can comment a little bit on the idea of sustainability in the clean beauty world.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's definitely very key, and they need to go hand in hand, um, having that positive impact to it.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_05: Because if you're going ahead and a formula might be clean, but the to get there, the supply chain to produce that is not, then it's almost falling on deaf ears.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_05: What's what's actually happening behind the scenes and being transparent, as Janelle touched on earlier.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: So for us, really, when you start looking at the ingredients, how are they being sourced?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: How are they being produced?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: Because there are a number of natural ingredients out there that are very scarce.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: There's a finite amount of them.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: And with that being said, they might not only be finite, but the amount of resources it takes to go ahead and produce that specific plant.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_05: And with that plant, too, what people don't realize is we're not using the entire plant.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: We might only be using the root, is what happens within the natural space.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: And so then there's a lot of waste that's coming from that, and it's not very sustainable at all from the resource element or even the outward process that's coming from that.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_05: So for us, it's really going ahead and using our biotechnology that we have to go ahead and produce, you know, an ingredient that is not going to go ahead and be using an abundance of resources that are potentially scarce.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: And also taking that a step further when looking at packaging.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_05: And something for Pepet has always been, you know, PCR, trying to go ahead and use post-consumer recyclable material within our product.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: So we're not just leaving it up to the consumer to be responsible as far as recycling, but taking that matter too and going ahead and putting it back into the product.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: So we're really giving plastic a second or third life.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not just going ahead and ending up in the ocean in a landfill.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_05: We're really trying to look at things holistically.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a very, uh, very interesting point because, you know, the other day I was talking to the founder of this new e-commerce website that's kind of like a Sephora online, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's they're doing a really good job.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I brought up the idea of like, you know, well, are you eventually going to get to the point?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know a lot of brands are leaning towards this idea of refillable um products, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like instead of buying the whole product again, you can have refills and um etc.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was discussing this with her and she was like, yeah, but it's it's a slippery slope, you know, because it you you have to really think about is the consumer gonna want to invest in that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that as as businesses like move towards this, exactly what you said, Taylor.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's really something I'm interested in as a consumer to see how people are gonna react to this whole idea of, you know, let's keep on, you know, using what we're using to begin with instead of creating more waste, you know?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: You you bring up a really interesting point about the consumer, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is like, would they be willing to pay for it?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're seeing in the data is that there's really two things that are happening.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: One is that they're living their values through their wallet, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna put their dollars where it matters to them in their personal value system.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then there's self-expression, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Self-identity.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I identify as someone who cares about the world by choosing this brand or this product over others.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: It goes back to like it's um in the brand prism, it's the lens of self-reflection.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And those two things are happening in our market at the same time.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so being a company that does good and to be good um really is meeting those, it's the right time and the right place for what's happening in the consumer movement.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's I completely, yeah, I completely agree with you.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great point.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I really I want to circle back because, you know, um, while we're we're talking about this, I want to go back to Janelle's point about um also caring about the people that are the workers right behind the brands that are creating these amazing products.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is for me personally, is you know, as a scientist, it's a very um something very close to my heart.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm involved in the field of toxicology and I have studied things like, you know, people who work in factories and they work in, you know, these environments that are being using materials that you know we would probably not consider so clean, you know.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but what what's happening is that after prolonged exposure, people are, you know, really being damaged and they're being hurt.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, keeping that in mind as well while we're sustaining this idea of, hey, we're clean, we're good for you, you know, we're good for environment the environment.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that aspect never gets talked about.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to actually see what you guys think about that in terms of like the employees and what you know, what really goes behind each of your brands when it comes to formulations and who works on them, like in terms of formulating.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_05: I am happy to go ahead and hop on that one.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_05: For us at Pipette, um, one of the things we're really proud about is we actually do all of our formulas in-house.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_05: So we have an amazing team and mom's on the team.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_05: So they're very passionate about the products that we go ahead and put out as they're using them, not only on themselves, but their little ones.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: And so for them, it's really going ahead and making sure that we are kind of abiding by the EWG standard.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: So using to that point that you touched on there, Edka, is those non-toxic ingredients.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_05: So it's thinking of it really, this is going to be going on a baby.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: This is something that needs to be safe.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_05: And so, with that, is in our lab spaces is using only the necessary ingredients and ingredients that are not only safe, but that clean and sustainable element really is the holistic approach we try to take with that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Janelle, I want you to really comment on this because you're the one who brought it up.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to hear your take on this as well.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I think a lot of it, you know, to Taylor's point is very similar for Olika as well.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's really about how we're processing ingredients.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, again, not just for the safety of consumers, but for the safety of workers.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the way we process our water is a perfect example.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we use a reverse osmosis system.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and by doing that, we're producing less hazardous wastewater because we're not requiring all of the chemicals that needs to go into the water in order to process it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: And you think about that, those chemicals are, yeah, they're really bad for our products, but they're also really bad for the people who are working with the products.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: So we hold ourselves to a really high standard in our manufacturing and in our supply chain because there can be really unintended consequences of using some of these hazardous chemicals to your point with the workers.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just one example of the things we do.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, we're we're looking at that all the way from farming all the way to like it landing, you know, at the consumer's doorstep, but we take extra special attention to make sure every step of the way we're making choices that are beneficial for everybody.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and especially in this like, you know, COVID or I guess post-COVID now environment.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we're post anything yet, but you know, in the in this environment, especially that's very, very much a you know, a hallmark point that you've made here is that really caring about every step, because you know these materials that we're discussing, even if it's something like cardboard, you know, one thing I do know for a fact from the literature out there, the publications, is that everything eventually goes into nanoparticle form.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to, as consumers, be mindful of that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we're shopping and and and looking for brands that are truly clean, it's important to have founders who can make you know um claims and and and talk about it like what Janelle what you just explained because this is something that shows that you've really thought this out you know you've really considered all of these aspects uh Kimberly I'd love for you to um chime in on this if you have any uh thoughts and yeah I have I have an and there's an interesting ad for Terracona so similar to Pipette Terracona owns its own ingredient um stack so we know where those things are coming from it's the scientists are our scientists the ingredients are coming from our teams um but what I found was really interesting is so we use fermented sugar cane um as the source of um the primary ingredient and they actually moved the fermentation facility um onto the same land that the sugarcane is growing so we're not loading sugarcane trucking it to a different location and then making the magic happen like it's all happening right there and even that small move which seems small has a big impact right because think about all of all of the stuff we're not doing we're not transporting you're preserving an ecosystem like a business ecosystem we really are there was this there was this article in ProPublica about like how ugly um sugar cane manufacturing is at large and when I saw that I was just like it hit my heart in such a hard way and it was specifically talking about Florida um and so when I first was joining the team I was asking all these questions you know that my whole advocate advocate for others who may not know they need an advocate because I had never heard of this before.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really impressed with how they really flattened the system and looked for any place to optimize um the footprint that was being made um through the manufacturing and then owning and optimizing every step.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a really it's a different kind of ownership and accountability from a core from a company level than I'd ever seen before.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I'd like to see more people doing that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah me too and I think that that's such a such a brilliant um concept is to preserve you know if you're going to be you know I I talk to a lot of brands on skincare anarchy that are you know for example they're harvesting herbs from a specific region of the planet or or whatnot.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like if you really keep it if you if you really want that ingredient I think what you said is absolutely genius that you have to really consider what's going to happen when you remove that specific plant or you know whatever it is natural resource and put it somewhere else and then process it somewhere else how is that going to interact with the you know the ecosystem that we don't even see you know in the air um the trees you know like how is it going yeah so I I really really like that point.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: My next my next thing I really really want to talk to you guys about is this idea of you know for me as a consumer when I look at the clean beauty industry I often think that it's a bunch of people that you know there's a lot of really great brands like yours and then there's a lot of brands who are really um they're I think learning you know they're learning and they're trying to explore this idea and they're trying their best to do this right.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel as a consumer and just somebody that's you know third party looking in and correct me if I'm wrong that the information is not available as to how to do this in the most um thorough manner, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: How to create the most thorough clean beauty brand.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'd love for you guys to chime in on what you think are some of the resources that brands should utilize when they're doing their homework when they're looking into you know the best practices and and maybe from your own experiences you know uh what you've encountered yeah I think Janelle I think Janelle should do definitely weigh on this one she's got good stories um absolutely so I will be fully transparent you know we're learning as well we've had a lot of difficult conversations um across our business for the past year and a half the truth is we let science lead the way and there's different perspectives on like science um there are some great resources like I absolutely love um the EWG that Taylor mentioned um before I think there's also partners like making sure things are leaping money certified um safely made so there's a lot of different kinds of certifications that you can look to you have to really understand though like what they require in their certification so it's not necessarily going to be a one size fits all approach um and you know it it's a process you know there's things that I've learned over the past year that something as simple as aloe vera may or may not be safe for you.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really because there's an ingredient that exists in aloe vera before it's decolorized.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: So when it's natural pure state and form there can be an ingredient that's kind of known to be a carcinogen.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so the processing is actually beneficial.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes when we talk about natural organic we're like that's the best thing you can do.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Actually sometimes a little bit of the processing is better for you because you can get that ingredient to a different form.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: You can change that molecule a little bit so it's safer for your skin.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: We have a partnership with a company called in order to vet all of our ingredients so they're board certified toxicologists and they look at all of our ingredients before we even choose them and select them as we're creating formulas they scan them against 16 different human and environmental endpoints to make sure they're safe for humans and safe for the planet as well.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: They've been an incredible partner for us in just making sure as we're building our formulas we're making the right choices for for our consumers.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of different resources like that you you know you can look online um severa has a great blog that you can follow and get like a little bit deeper um on toxicology but um that's been been our approach and it's been a journey and we're still we're still learning we're not all the way there but we'll continue striving.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Janelle you can't see me but honestly like every part of my being is like cheer rib right now.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know the toxicologist in me is like yes yes that's exactly what oh my gosh you know you really really hit the nail on the head there.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is what we need I mean toxicology you know just for a second to talk about it that's like that's the stuff we really need to be worried about because that they're the ones these these board certified toxicologists are your pros in telling you if the product that you want to utilize in your in your beauty brand or your your whatever product you're making what it's going to look like once it starts degrading.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the real problem is that that you know later on area that's what we need to like handle before we start making anything.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I love everything you said and I would love for uh Taylor if you want to um you know chime in on this one.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_05: Oh absolutely I think Janelle definitely hit the nail on the head there in so many different ways if somebody is looking to start a clean brand another uh area that I would recommend is really looking at what you plan to do for like retail expansion.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: Where do you plan on seeing yourself going?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: Because a lot of retailers like such as Credo have very specific regulations that you need to go ahead and meet.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: So if you do need those specific clinical results or if they do need to pass a specific toxicology test is being upfront and being prepared for that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: So you are formulating to those higher standards versus finding out later that hey I went off of maybe a standard that I shouldn't have that we kind of talked about earlier a little bit as far as how clean right now is a little bit of self-regulating.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: So looking to those retailers that you plan to try to get into and making sure that you're abiding by those at the very least.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah absolutely and also it's like you know I just want to say um you know and Kimberly I really want you to to comment on this and I and before you do I want to say that like I think one of the biggest uh white spaces that I've noticed in this air this whole conversation in general is that people don't um they don't know where to turn in terms of like making sure that even though you're calling yourself a clean beauty brand there's a lot of um scientific testing that's gonna have to go into your products regardless.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know clean beauty again and I'm gonna eventually transition this into like some other you know buzzwords that we love using in this industry.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But like you know clean beauty doesn't mean that you don't need clinical trials or you don't need toxicologists on your team or that you don't need you know these experts it it that definitely needs to be cleared up I think for a lot of like smaller brands that don't understand this the way that you guys are explaining it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah that's my little rant but yeah Kimberly I really want you to chime in on this uh this topic so there's a few things so if you're on that journey of you want to launch a brand and you're figuring out how to go clean, get clean, be clean, right?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: You've got the Syvera side right which is all of your input and then there's this other way that you can actually maybe do a little bit of reality check or something to keep you honest.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so on the ecom side you can um plug in something called uh clean for me and it will scan through your ingredient list and it will allow the consumer to click on the different ingredients and then it gives them a definition of what that is.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can create like education and transparency and even throw in a little advocacy right there without too much trouble.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like you don't have to build the dictionary it's coming from um it's coming from the service but also I think as you're going along and you're making trade-offs if you know at the end that that's all going to be hyper transparent to the end user it's kind of a little way to keep you honest.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I love how sometimes you can lose your way you can lose your way you can lose your way it's easy to lose your way you know there's a lot of information and then I I think that especially with this whole idea of you know you know how they say there's the UK standards for clean and then there's the US standards and there's these long lists of things and it's like you know what why don't you just put everything in one freaking place and that's you know let's let's really think about it from a an overall thing you know standpoint of okay if I'm a if I'm a new entrepreneur I want to make the best possible product out there that I can make and follow all these guidelines I should have one resource I can go to and I think that's a that's something that we really need to like push in this in this industry.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: If we're gonna make clean beauty which it is a huge category of beauty and it's a huge you know like there's a lot of mar you know market potential there's a lot of money being fueled into this area um we need to at least I think invest in those kind of databases and those resources that you're just you're referring to Kimberly it just it seems to me that like the moral imperative is that we clean should be the baseline it should be the default like it shouldn't be that like clean media is this rogue outlier that the rest of the world is quickly adopting it it should be the default yeah yeah yeah and I think I think I think people are trying to make it that but it's just you know that's why we're holding this panel because there's I mean you know even with something you know good intentions you know that's great to have but you have to really still have a model in place and some sort of a mental idea you know and protocol that you should go through.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um I want to actually I want to actually transition this a little bit and I want to talk about some other terms that fall into this category of clean beauty.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um you know I see a lot of brands doing this and it really upsets me to be honest with you guys is this idea of greenwashing.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know that it's a huge topic.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know that a lot of magazines publications have been talking about it but I really want to get your viewpoints on this because you know there's a lot of brands that are really monetizing off of the hard work of brands such as yours that are really going and doing a deep dive and really defining what clean should be so I want to get you know just what you guys think about the whole greenwashing thing and maybe again Janelle maybe start us off.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: I always call in Janelle but it's okay she's the stage for the conversation I feel like she's got a wealth of knowledge too so she's perfect.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah yeah um no you know I I find it deeply troubling and I'm right there with you um and I think you're really mentioned it too I we just have a moral obligation um to do better and to do more.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Unfortunately because there is no regulation and no industry standard which I think we absolutely need some like policy um advocates as well to kind of change our standards the best that consumers can do to avoid green washing or get around green washing is do just a little bit of research.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the things I find with these brands that do the green or the clean washing is that there's no there.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_04: If you go to their website all of the things that we're talking about because there's a lot of actually incredible brands doing great work in this space and they tell you what they're doing.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: They show you what they're doing.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: They're very transparent about what they're doing.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why transparency was one of my key words earlier because it is the best way to get around it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: No brand is perfect today um so be cautious of any brand that is claiming perfection but there are a lot of brands that are telling you this is where we stand from a toxicology perspective.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: This is our manufacturing process this is how we choose and make our formulas like listen to those brands if they're telling you this information it's because they have it and they're not just putting meaningless claims on their package so it's a little bit more work.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I think Taylor mentioned this too earlier but I will say the retailers are really excited for the standards that the Sephora's the targets Walmart are starting to have and they're putting labeling on their shelves and they already have really strict requirements on how you get onto that shelf.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so there's just a little bit more trust there that you can have if your brand is showing up in these spaces in the retailer.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: But again you know the work the onus is still on the consumer right now I'm hoping one day we can change that um and put all of the responsibility on us so that it's just one less stress for them and they can you know enjoy themselves um shopping all these great brands.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely see every time she speaks I just like literally like my brain just celebrates like I honestly and can really I I I heard you like um almost chiming in so I want you to I want you to add on to that whatever you were oh no I just she's she's 100% right.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can as a can the onus is on the consumer right now which is unfair but at the same time as a brand there's nothing I like better than when I get that email asking a question that I hadn't thought to answer first right that isn't in the FAQ and I I want those questions.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: It helps us be better.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: As a consumer myself I've gotten really good at asking the questions when I turn and learn right I flip over that bottle and I'm looking at that ingredient list and I see it just says fragrance I will send an email in and the funny part is that a lot of times the customer service teams who initially get that they don't have the answer but they have to go searching for the answer so you can find your patient.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: But by as consumers by us asking those questions as consumers for us paying attention to those ingredient labels and pushing on clients just because the name of the product is something naturals doesn't mean it's natural and that turn and learn right turn and learn and you'll know right away it's not natural because you can't pronounce anything in it.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and also um redefining what you mean by natural too right I mean that's a whole different rabbit hole to go down because natural yeah there's a lot of compounds there especially when it comes to organic chemistry I I don't know why no one ever wants to talk about organic chemistry probably because it's a nightmare to take it I remember you know flashbacks I'm I'm guessing yeah college PTSD.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh don't even get me started but you know I did surprisingly you know pretty well for that you know I give myself credit but I will say you know organic chemists I think do not get enough credit and the the whole area doesn't because the words have such meaning in them because it's one of the only disciplines I believe of science that names things for exactly what they look like on a molecular level.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a benzene compound that means the benzene that word's gonna be in the word you know what I mean so it's like they they really organic chemistry is something I think the consumer needs to like embrace because it's gonna make you better understand the structure of the ingredients that we're talking about and what the difference between something that's synthesized in the lab versus what you mentioned Kimberly natural, naturally occurring because there is a difference.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know right now I think um the most recent Nobel prize uh in chemistry was was given to two amazing scientists who were able to finally you know separate uh you know because everything exists in like mirror forms like molecules exist in equal quantities in mirror forms on on a chemistry level and they were able to find a way to like separate that and you know just a random tangent.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm saying is that it's it is important to understand the chemistry.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is important to understand how scientists come up with the names of what we do consider as still natural and you know so to not be afraid of that right if you see a long organic chemistry word and to not immediately think oh this is not natural yes it is you just need to understand what it means you know yeah yeah I think as a brand as a brand you have you have to assume like you cannot assume that your consumer is dumb right or that they're disinterested or dispassionate and find a way to bridge that gap of like what does that ingredient mean?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And as a consumer you have to hold those brands accountable for giving them your wallet and giving them your love and say like what is in here?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: How is this made where is it sourced?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten some really incredibly detailed questions down to the you know what is the GMO level of XYZ ingredient like just and I I love it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love it when that comes in because it means there's one more consumer who's out there really holding brands accountable.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely 100% I completely agree with you and actually you know um Taylor I need you to really chime in here because let's be honest you know with a baby care line you really can't greenwash because guess what babies and infant skin is the most sensitive you're gonna get and so I really want you to comment on this greenwashing you know thing and and tell me what you think about it and you know uh your whole perspective.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely um I think it's greenwashing the little bit of green marketing that's taking place is what we see a lot across the board.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I think Kim really did a really good job of touching on it from like the first standpoint of like what the consumer sees is like the name a lot.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_05: You'll see brands where they will try to put a spin on a term that the consumer is has always seen as something that's clean, green, eco-friendly and they're automatically assuming just based off of looking whether it's the product name, the brand name that it's clean.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_05: And I think one easy way to just go ahead and on the consumer side do a quick fact check is looking at the certifications on that specific, you know, with that brand with that specific product are the EWG verified is it vegan and cruelty free certified everything down to that level like doing a quick scan there's plenty of apps out there now at this point.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_05: I think one of them being like think dirty even where scanning that label on the back of a product when you're in store shopping to get an understanding of the full breakdown of everything that's within there and getting that scorecard to see is what's in here safe for me for my baby really just because with baby skin being so sensitive, it's new it's new to the world.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_05: They you know their body goes ahead and loses water more quickly than an adult.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it's also going to be very similar with the ingredients that are being put on their skin as far as the way it's going to affect them.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_05: So really getting an understanding of what's that difference between natural, what's that difference between clean and being able to make a purchase based off of the knowledge that you can easily go ahead and grab from these certifications.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_05: I think certifications are very important.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_05: It allows the consumer to go ahead and know that there's a third party that's looked in this and it's not just up to the brand to go ahead and do their own validation, knowing that as we already touched on here, clean for a lot of people knowing that there's no one specific regulatory like across the board is those certifications help go ahead and clear up I think a little bit of the thoughts that are going through mom's head is is this safe?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: What can I go ahead and use which is the best product to go ahead and grab yeah no absolutely and you know I think one thing I really wanted to actually um I was very excited um for for you to be in this panel because I really think that pipe cut should come out with a list of the ingredients because like literally I know from like just my pediatric you know rotations and and just working with pediatric patients is like you know you cannot BS what react with a little baby skin you can't you you know you can't fake it you can't pretend that it's you know what it is so I it would be really cool to have this like you know almost like a pediatrician verified you know and like you know obviously like a a list of things for people who have for example really sensitive skin and I think that's really important from a science perspective because everybody right now is talking about the microbiome and one thing I really wanted to talk to you specifically about Taylor was the microbiome because babies are really what we need to be studying when it comes to microbiome the skin's microbiome development that's where it all begins.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely I'm glad you touched on even the pediatrician tested and dermatologist tested because that's something that we look at when going ahead and producing any new products any products we have on the market is making sure that it's got both those validations there along with the clinical testing.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_05: That's huge.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_05: But getting on to the topic of the microbiome and kind of also touching point on what Kimberly brought up earlier about squaling is really getting an understanding of baby's skin from the birthing process all the way up to that one year old mark.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_05: And when babies are born they're born with this white coating on their body which is known as the burnax and it's really the introductory of like baby's first natural moisturizer it's what's protecting their skin.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_05: And this white coating historically for like many years was being wiped off baby skin right after birth.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: Baby was being handed over to mom and they were wiping that down.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_05: And over time we've learned that this really does act as a barrier a protective barrier for the skin and so now it's being encouraged to go ahead and rub it in.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_05: And the way it's able to act as a protective barrier for their skin is the most abundant lipid within the burnix is squalene.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_05: And squalene essentially goes ahead and it is a molecule that's within that goes ahead and acts as like a supermoisturizer.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_05: It protects the skin it keeps it supple and babies have an abundance of it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_05: And as you get older it slowly starts to deplete so when formulating our products we really wanted to keep that in mind and make sure the ingredients we were putting into our products is something that baby skin would baby skin would readily recognize so formulating our products with swaline that is derived from sugarcane was a big thing for us.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting and it's interesting that you were able to derive it see again plants like you know the they just everything's there in nature you just have to you have to look but you know one thing I just wanted to add and I think it's so interesting that you discussed the science of uh of that coding because when again going back to the microbiome I think you know I saw a post the other day you guys and it really the scientist in me just was like so irritated that I ended up messaging the executive editor of that publication being like listen you know this is just not right and it's not your fault but you know all that but anyway my point is the microbiome develops it's not something that just automatically exists.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything Taylor said about that that squalene and those lipids that are there, they're feeding the few bacteria.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when you a baby is birthed through the vaginal canal, the no the flora that's in the mom's vaginal canal is the first quote unquote microbiome that the baby's skin is exposed to.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the starting place.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then be using this you know this coating that's on the baby that's almost like a nutrient source for these bacteria so that they can populate in a you know what I mean in a in a better way and really form the microbiome on the skin.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding just that even you know as a general consumer it's gonna really make you rethink when you invest in products that are claiming to be hey we're a microbiome baseline.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well what do you mean you know what I mean like I I really get very confused.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that that's such a brilliant uh point that you brought up and I'd love uh Janelle and and Kimberly if you guys want to comment about anything about the microbiome that you find to be interesting or um you know anything.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah well um it's a topic we talk about a lot um on our brain and the microbiome um and really for us um how do we protect your hand microbiome because we know your skin is like one of the biggest microbiome um ecosystems that you have um and we look at a lot about we know that um when your skin is dry and cracked and compromised um that cracked skin actually feeds more of the the bad bacteria and gives them just more space to operate and you lose more of the good we're very intentional with our products and our formulas um that's why you find aloe and glycerin um in our formula um and we're super excited that we'll soon be um adding hyaluronic acid to our hand sanitizers in Q1 next year.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah with with the idea that we know most you know um hand sanitizers do dry out your skin so it's like you're killing bacteria but you're also creating an environment where more bacteria on your hands and skins can or bad bacteria I should say could thrive and so we want to make sure that we are um you know helping to keep that microbiome in balance but um I I can see how this is hard for brands we've had a lot of conversations about where is the science go?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: How are we identifying the good um the bad bacteria how are we then identifying the food sources for the good and um the right ways to go after the bad that don't compromise your skin health and potentially other microbiomes in the future it's a very exciting topic but it it is a very um important topic because microbiome for us it's at the center of your health and your vitality and your wellness um and so it's really important to to keep it strong and keep it in balance.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk we talk a lot about it on the Olika brand absolutely and you know what I just want to say Olika is like one of honestly when it comes to hand sanitizer I don't think you can get more of an expert than being a medical uh professional because we're constantly like it's we bathe in it.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly all you guys have done I just want to say wow you know Olika has done such a stunning job of creating a product that is it works first of all you know and second of all it's like promoting the idea that it's okay for your hands to feel good after you use hand sanitizer.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to have cracked nasty scaly hands just because you used hands you know what I mean like that's I think and and again that feeds into quote clean beauty is like you know optimization and you guys have truly optimized hand sanitizer if you ask me as a consumer so I I love that um Kimberly I would I'd love I would love to get your uh opinion about the microbiome what your thoughts are yeah so as a as a clinical clean wellness brand we in in our first focus being on skin right having like unhealthy skin on like the skin obviously the microbiome is a big part of that conversation and in our case it all goes back to the clinicals and to the scientists right so we rely heavily on them even down to like marketing claims where you know we it there is a very tight coupling um with our science team they're amazing to talk about like you can fall down a rabbit hole conversation um so I'm I'm trying to figure out how to articulate it exactly but as a brand is really important like for us in particular for in this launch in particular that we're really leaning into that science.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're really letting the um child the clinical data tell us what is and what isn't as opposed to making it up as we go along which maybe is what you're referring to with some of the random graphics you will see on the interweb yes yes and you know that staying true to that science is something that I think you know you've brought this up multiple times in this conversation Kimberly and I am so thankful that you've done that because this is something I think everyone listening whether you're a consumer entrepreneur uh enthusiast I don't know geek uh you know you need to understand that science cannot be substituted you know clean beauty and green beauty and sustainability all of these words do not exclude science and it's exactly what Kimberly said like you have to like you have to have a science forward approach to make sure that you're doing it right and that you're really putting the right stuff out there.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know again Kim going back to your you had mentioned education for the consumer you know what I mean very early in the conversation and that's exactly it all ties in you know if you're as a brand I think if you do it right and like you said you consult the scientists and stuff the education aspect comes naturally you know it's easier.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: It does I mean I think if you think about even marketing can use that information right because every brand and marketing team has a conversation about the content calendar and about what are we going to talk about and how are we going to get people interested and there's so much rich stuff to work with there that um serves both masters right of getting the brand out there but also educating and empowering the consumer and so there's just a lot of untapped potential in the science.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely from one nerd from one nerd to another oh yes those are the best conversations by the way we're all fellow nerds I love it um you know one one question I do have for all of you though I I'm not gonna lie you know I always wonder you know what are some of the barriers that you guys face when it comes to really translating in a you know I guess layman terms and really educating your consumers on that science and on these best practices that you're you know that we've all discussed here you know like what what are some of those uh hurdles that as a brand you go through when it comes to that getting that knowledge out there and Taylor maybe you can get us started because this time I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put Chanel on the spot.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely I think you definitely hit the nail on the head there as far as trying to put something in layman's terms because I think even um Kimberly was really touching on it right here is knowing that science and you know sometimes the product development team they have an abundance of knowledge and I think because they have that abundance of knowledge sometimes there's that thought that the consumer has this abundance of knowledge.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so really as the marketing team it's our responsibility to go ahead and have those sit down like roundtable conversations with them where we're able to learn health of knowledge from them and it's like you know rapid spitfire for questions finding out this and from there sitting down and trying to digest how do we tell this story to like mom?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_05: How do we tell this story to somebody that's looking to make cleaner choices so really going ahead and determining what those key pieces, those nuggets are and putting it in a digestible version.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_05: So like with social media we see a lot more people turning to social media using infographics whenever possible to make something a lot more digestible and I think really being a brand that is consumer focused and willing to engage with the consumer.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_05: So again as like Kimberly and Janelle touched on when the consumer's reaching out with questions is having that information to go ahead and have that dialogue with them to really get them all the information they need, but also having a really strong e-commerce platform where people have enough information if they have the time to go ahead and do the digging and it's in a digestible manner that it's not like she's sitting there going ahead and having to do Google search and it's like what does this mean?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_05: But it's something like I have a good understanding I have the information I need to go ahead and make a purchase let alone do more if she does want to do more research she has enough that's right here to make that purchase but she also has enough to go ahead and know where to start if she wants to research because I hear that a lot from people from attending some of these mom shows where it's like I don't even know where to start is what happens.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_05: So being that resource being that advocate for them.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that and Janelle I want you to I want you to add to that and um share your view and any hurdles that you've seen especially with you know a company that's so based in this idea of you know hygiene and and especially with you know COVID and the way it's been and the culture around that.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for you to comment.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll start off saying I I 100% agree with everything Taylor said.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I think how do you distill this down to consumers um in a digestible crispy engaging way we know everybody has an attention span that's like six seconds um so how do you like get these core messages out there is really hard.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: But I touched on this earlier I think equally as hard is how do we educate ourselves um I go back to the process that we had with CyberaLens um and part of it is um putting in your own requirements and lists right so we created our own do not use list but we were like where do we go we have 16 states we have the European standards um we have retail standards so we probably have 65 lists in there that we're screening um our ingredients against um which sounds very thorough um but it's also very confusing like do we need 66 are we missing like a couple that we should have in there um and then there's varying opinions on what is safe when we were looking at formulating some of our our products you know sometimes there's byproducts of working with natural ingredients that creates harmful ingredients and so we were looking at them and sometimes those byproducts can be in like the parts per million and so we were putting standards around that is it 100 parts per million is it 50 is it more like what really defines what is safe and dangerous is it like risk is it exposure is it an equation of risk versus exposure um it's a lot and I I'm not a chemist I'm not a toxicologist I'm not a scientist um and so wading through all of that information to make the absolute best decision that you can because I believe and I believe in humanity I believe there's a lot of good actors out there and they're trying to do the best that they can but it is a lot to wade through and figure out how do you do that.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's actually one of the biggest hurdles that's facing us in the industry.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's and I love I love everything that you said and I think that it's brilliant that you brought up uh the term parts per million because you know I'm so happy to as like you know just a science geek to see that we're starting to have these terms come out in the marketing world of beauty and like people you know are acknowledging things like you know uh Daltons and killedons and like what is able to cross the skin barrier and those kind of words.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you used to hear that stuff in like general physics courses and stuff you know what I mean but never in them it never in the public so I I think you've made such a great point there is that you know really um I think sometimes you just have to throw words at people and be like if I do this often enough you're eventually going to understand what I mean.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really like that you brought that up.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know and I Kimberly I of course I would love for you to comment you've been the I think the most science um forward person in this whole panel so far and I I I love every time you comment on the science.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well I'm I'm gonna come at it and I'm surprised you so I'm gonna come at it with a slightly different angle about the challenge and this is about like how you bring that education to the consumer to meet them where they are.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: So each product has a different focus it has a different primary customer and those customers want those messages in very different ways you may have one segment that is looking for more of an uplifting message right by joining us by doing X, you are you know helping put this positive thing into the world you have others that are more of a prevention mindset this versus this um you're preventing future harm you're preventing future decay of the earth whatever that is and then you have others that are more like um let's say like value system oriented it's really important as you're looking at this and getting your audiences excited to understand where they are and how they want to receive that message that they don't turn you out.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is one thing to know that we're gonna go out and advocate for them when they don't even know they need an advocate and it's another to be completely ignored your good intentions all that love and sweat and I know it's the heartache.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so it really it really means that from a consumer research perspective you have to get out there and talk to them you have to see where they are and you you just need to meet them where they are you can't be preachy.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you have to be a cheerleader well it goes back to also what Taylor said right it's about like showing them people like you gotta be and also what uh Janelle's been saying this whole time transparency transparency transparency you have to show people and I think you know this is something I really wanted to make sure we talked about I know we had discussed this before the panel took place and um it's something that I think is a great way to really incorporate all of those layers um Kimberly that you just brought up about um you know education and and and that's the idea of using products and investing in products that you're going to use fully not use once, twice three times maybe leave it on your shelf, let it sit there and create all sorts of you know molecular you know byproducts and degraded you know metabolites and stuff.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: So so that's that that's a question and that's a topic I want all three of you to really chime in on because you know what in your opinion can we do or what makes you know consumers want to come back and not just come back but like you know really use the products they invest in.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_05: So I we can get started with uh with Taylor if you want absolutely I think um as a pipette one of the big things is we definitely don't want products just should sitting on shelf and not moving.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_05: So whether that's inside the consumer shelf um so in your medicine cabinet in the bathroom on baby's changing table or actual shelf as far as the retailer and it's not moving and it's not connecting for the consumer to go ahead and make that purchase.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_05: So a big thing for us was going ahead and making sure that it was creating those essential items those items that we know people are going to go ahead and it's an everyday use item and also items that have multi-purpose use to them.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_05: So multi-purpose use for baby mom, you know, the whole entire family and products that can be used for baby mom and the whole entire family.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not just for one specific person but something that could go ahead and be used across the entire family.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_05: So one product we have in particular that's really been phenomenal at that is our baby bomb.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_05: And while it does have the name baby in the title it's definitely one of those things that we hear everybody going ahead and using this is perfect for going ahead and helping out with my child's trapped lips, trapped nose, any area that's needing a little extra moisture now from people that are going ahead that are older that are using it, you know, this is a really great foot mask this is great for going ahead and adding as like a top layer to my face when I need a little extra moisture to apply on top of my moisturizer when I go to sleep at night.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_05: So it's something that we know everybody's able to use.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's not something that's just gonna sit there and oh I don't have enough of it to go ahead and use for my baby.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_05: It's something that's gonna be used for the entire family and we know it's not going to go to waste to the point you brought up.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that and you know I just want to I I really love what you said.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know I'm not gonna lie I grew up watching my mom do this and it was like I never understood because I was you know stupid and a child and didn't get it.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like now I get it.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: She always used to use a baby lotion like the baby um you know just moisturizer and she only used that and she used it for her hands and her feet and she swore by it.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't go invest in these big you know what I mean adult companies she was all about the baby products and I was like why the heck is my mom buying baby products you know for her self-care so and it makes sense because it's again you know and also I think what you said Taylor I think that also would help so much for the entrepreneurs and the consumers because it adds simplicity you know it adds this idea of simplicity to the conversation.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely it's one of those things too where just being budget conscious not everybody has the money to go ahead and buy a huge assortment.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_05: So having a very niche treatment product is not always within everybody's budget.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_05: So keeping that in mind and understanding how can we go ahead and try to make the most of one product not only from thinking from when this product's used and the life cycle of it and when it ends up in the trash or potentially going to recycle but really when it's in somebody's home don't have an abundance of products it's sitting there by the time you know it's opened it ends up it becomes expired because they haven't been able to move through it quickly enough.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_05: So to that point similar to your mother we've gotten plenty of reviews where people are reviewing many of our baby products where they're like I don't have children but this product is phenomenal.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_05: I've been using this in my daily Routine and it makes us really happy to hear that there are people out there that are taking the products that we have and using these hacks to go ahead and use like baby oil in a bath or shower to help moisturize skin even more, just give it that little extra suppleness.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_05: So it's really extending the life of those products so they're not just ending up in a landfill.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I want to I want to actually uh shift to Olica and you know, Janelle and Kimberly, because let me tell you, one thing that really impressed me off the bat about Olica's packaging was it tells you exactly the amount of like uh uses that are contained in every single bottle of hand sanitizer.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought when I saw that, I mean, as little of a detail as that might seem to some people, that's huge because it tells you exactly what to expect.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I really want to talk to you guys about that and like what really led to you guys putting that right up there, you know, front and center, and also what you think about this entire topic that we've been discussing.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, Janelle, it's your turn.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we were really choiceful about that, and it just really goes back to our um carbon footprint impact, you know, um the decisions we make, um, yes, we're refillable, but we also think about um our skew complexity.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we don't want to have like too many SKUs.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's why we don't have 30 different fragrances um right now on our website.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_04: That was definitely a choice because that becomes excessive, and in that excessiveness, you're creating waste with a lot of products and a lot of SKUs that aren't selling as much.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but when you look at the size of our product, um there's questions we get all the time about it's not as big, you know, as the other products that are on the shelf.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that was very choiceful.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because even though it is a forever bottle, we're still offering you a great value with a lot of uses.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: And in a lot of cases, it's 15 times more of the uses that you have in those bigger bottles.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we we think about that a lot at Oweka.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, how do we offer that value in the experience?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's really what's going to bring consumers um back to our brand.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_04: You you hit the nail on the head earlier with, you know, you don't have to have this trade-off of sanitizing your hands and having, you know, dry crack skin.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you don't also don't have to have the trade-off of buying like huge packages, um, you know, and there's other ways that that we look at those trade-offs for sure, but but that's what's core to us is just creating these really great holistic experiences um that are clean and sustainable and bring consumers back to our brand.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I love that.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to add that I really think this is important to understand.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is like kind of like a science-y statistical way of looking at it, but um, Olika's hand sanitizers also come with a nice, wonderful clip attached to them.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you can put that like I have on my keychain, and you end up using it's like the amount of uses over time.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to consider that curve, okay?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're comparing how much you use, you know, Olika's hand sanitizer versus the one that comes in the bottle and you can't really put it anywhere, and you know, that's something you have to consider because how many times are you using it and how accessible is it to you, you know?
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a huge, huge factor.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I just wanted to add that in there.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, uh, Kimberly, if you want to it, could you add to that?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can't.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: So this time I'm gonna come at you and I'm gonna say science.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have when you have like a nice, let's call it a simple set of ingredients, and by simple I mean not overly complex, and you're leaning on science that you can figure out um through clinicals and testing what other uses your ingredients have, right?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: At different concentrations, at different mixes, um, maybe slightly differences in formulation, right?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: So cream versus an oil, but there's probably a lot more that can be done.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're we've launched the first product on the roadmap of many products that's coming out of that mentality of um that if you lean on the science side, you know, we're focused on one kind of um like skin um solution at the moment.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's the word we're looking for, and there's more coming.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's all based on just investing in the science to figure out what else does that apply to.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's a similar mindset to pipette, but different, it it's a different circumstance.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that that's a that's a really, really um amazing point that you brought up because now is my geek out moment because I'm all about um, you know, all of the different things that uh the ingredients can do.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I know I've mentioned this before in my podcast, but I I published a paper in 2013 that was literally looking at the extracts of like things like turmeric, mint, you know, um uh eucalyptus.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: There are a bunch of different ones, right?
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and I looked at their um effect on, you know, uh killing off bacteria, some of the harshest bacteria that we deal with.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So not just skin flora, but I also looked at the impact it had on, for example, mycobacterium, which is one of the hardest ones to kill because it causes TB.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to do that and being able to say that, you know what, um, I'm going to go and play around and figure out what these ingredients really do.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge aspect, I think, that um, you know, really no one's talking about.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I really just want to stress the point that like everything Kimberly said, I completely back up because I genuinely believe in my heart that we're all born as natural scientists.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're all inclined to be, you know, just really curious about things.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I urge you out there, use Olga's hand sanitizer and then put your finger on a petri dish and let the bacteria grow and then compare it.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what I mean?
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like do little things that prove to you that these things are working, you know?
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love that.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that point.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And does anyone have anything else they want to add to anything that we've talked about so far?
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'll say the one thing that I absolutely love is seeing how much brands are really emphasizing on the science, because that is definitely the recurring word that we have been talking about today, is really putting a lot of um, you know, investment behind the science and going ahead and marketing the science and making it more transparent to the consumer.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_05: And as we touched on earlier, trying to make it digestible.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think before there was a little bit of this uh like faux pas almost like science was scary, science should not go ahead, like within specifically, I can speak to a pet, like don't want to associate that with baby.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like that's that's not good.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_05: And seeing this big shift where it's really educating on all the benefits that science is able to do, you know, producing sustainable ingredients, finding alternative, you know, sources uh for things, it really makes me happy knowing that there is this big shift.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_05: I know we're just barely at the tip of that iceberg, and there's so much more for us to go ahead and do, but creating not only better for you products, but better for the planet.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, Taylor.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this has been the best conversation, you guys.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have been just loving everything, all the insight you guys have provided.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Janelle Kimberly Taylor.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for this opportunity to host you and to learn from you.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, you've taken away a few, I guess, benchmarks or maybe a little bit of a protocol, you know, about how to approach the idea of clean beauty or green beauty or some of these buzzwords that we hear about.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, just leave us some feedback, tell us what you think, and you know, we may do a part two if we want.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys are, you know, up for it, I'm up for it.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, this is this is definitely a conversation I think that needs to be had.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so honored that you guys uh had this with me.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for having us.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is great.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was honor was truly mine.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and everyone listening, please, like I said, um we're going to be putting this everywhere for skincare anarchy.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm going to be doing this as obviously the podcast, but we're going to be sending out a newsletter.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have not uh subscribed to our email list, make sure you do that because a lot of it will be quotes and information that um, you know, that we have heard here today.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um it'll be a lot of information in there too.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you subscribe, make sure you also go follow all three of these amazing brands on Instagram, on all social media.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I'm I'm just so happy to see that there are people like you guys out there that are entrepreneurs and doing things so ethically and morally correct.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then, you know, it it it's really it's nice.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a breath breath of fresh air, is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I will be back next time and thank you so much.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:15:16
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• 1:15:38
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• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast, and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 1:16:09
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• 1:16:15
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• 1:16:20
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