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The Biggest Collapse in Pittsburgh Sports History · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to another uh disappointing episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh as usual, I'm your co-host, Steve Wert, and I'm joined by I'm Tim Hannon.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, are you ready to have a giant collapse on your hands and be very disappointed, Tim?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hope our I hope our show doesn't collapse as bad as this team did.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: So this is really the biggest collapse of Pittsburgh sports history.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And as we go over it, it's actually a historic historical, Tim.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: They made history.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for much of the Penguins' early history, they were definitely a struggling franchise.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: They made the playoffs, but they missed them a fair amount too.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh nothing really epitomizes this area era of the Penguins than the 1974-75 playoff series against the New York Islanders.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: A series which they seemingly took an insurmountable lead only to watch it slip away in a clap collapse that made history, Tim.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I like to call them the New York Freaking Islanders.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe that should be the title of this episode, the New York Freaking Islanders.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um of course the Penguins were founded in 1967.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um they had made the playoffs in 1969 and 1970.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: They'd lost to the Blues in the semifinals, and uh they made the playoffs in 71, 72, and lost to the Blackhawks in the quarterfinals.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh at this point in their history, they've had eight seasons of playing hockey and they've only made the playoffs three times, which you know isn't that's pretty subpar.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um just for comparison, the St.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Louis Blues, who were also an expansion team in 1967, had made the playoffs seven out of the last eight years.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know what the Penguins' excuses were, besides they were very not well run.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um actually didn't um if you want to check out our Flyers Losing Streak um podcast, we did that earlier.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um that had actually started the year before, February 7th, 1974.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins aren't gonna win in Philadelphia for a while, too.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um just uh also some other stuff that happened.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: The NHL had actually added the Washington Capitals and the Kansas City Scouts, Tim.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Woo! There's that hockey team in Kansas City that we wanted so bad.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh there was also the it was called the World Hockey Association, and that was an actual rival professional hockey league, and um, they were taking talent from the NHL.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, for example, like I'll talk about Bernie Parent like later in the episode, but Bernie Parent is like one of the best goaltenders at that time, and he had actually played for the rival Philadelphia team of the world hockey.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're Philadelphia Blaze or something, but then the Flyers were able to sign him away.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the associated that World Hockey Association, they had many teams, like I think 18 or 20 at their height, but the only teams you might remember from them is teams like the Hartford Whalers, the Winnipeg Jets, the Edmonton Oilers.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that you know, and their trophy was called the Avco World Trophy.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it was the their version of the Stanley Cup.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's still around.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's hanging out somewhere in a museum somewhere in Canada.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why was that such a big thing back in the 60s and 70s to have like rival leagues?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because football had that, basketball had that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think it was because there wasn't everything wasn't settled yet.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like we said, like there were they were still like trying to figure out how much the sports fans were willing to pay for and what cities could support a team and what you know what would really stick in what cities and regions, and it just hadn't quite at all been settled and wouldn't be settled in some cities till the 80s.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And even today, I mean there's not really a minor league of football, but they keep trying to bring back that XFL, UFL, like they keep trying to come up, and it's really they just need to give up and realize that college football really is the minor leagues of football.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I digress.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Baseball never had a rival league, and maybe that maybe that's because like you said, by by the 70s.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: They did.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Remember in our 1890s, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but that was in the four.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: They had that players league.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's why that pirates theme stunk so much.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So so to your point, then everything was settled in baseball, but the other three leagues weren't as popular.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that makes sense.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh what a shocker.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Rumors, Tim, that the penguins are being sold.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's not like every other year with the pay.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, once again, aren't there rumors?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, actually, the penguins are trying to be sold again now as of 2025, back to Mario and Ron Burkle, maybe.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: It I don't know why the penguins get sold and resold and bought so many times, but they do.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh the NHL actually was considered moving them to Seattle, believe it or not, them and the Kansas.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Kansas City team is being considered to move too.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they were actually uh I think I read in the paper there was uh buyers, potential buyers in the stands for one of the blues playoffs game playoff games, I do believe.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the cast, the characters here, we got uh the penguins coach.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: He's uh Mark Boulier, I pronounced I apologize if I can't pronounce his name.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um he only he was a career minor leaguer, but he did coach the Penguins from 1973 to 1976.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um the Penguins captain, Ron Schock, he had 23 goals, 86 points, 63 assists.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: He was the center leader of the team.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: He got traded to the team after he asked where he would like to be traded during his steak dinner.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, where would you like to be traded?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, uh, Pittsburgh, or I forget he said some other city, but yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um that of course was the height of the century line, Tim, which we had discussed earlier.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Sile Apps, still apps, uh he played for the century line from 1970 to 78.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Low McDowell was the left wing and actually played for the Hornets, uh, believe it or not.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: He was kind of the uh veteran of the team.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he act the Pittsburgh Hornets, which were the minor league hockey team before the Penguins were instated, uh I guess or created.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um he played also, he he actually got the Bill Masterson trophy because I guess he had a bad knee and he had rec returned.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: He actually played for the Penguins from 1970 to 1978, and he had got the Bill Masterson trophy in 73.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: John Pronovost, he played from the Penguins, played with the Penguins from 1968 to 1978.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's the first Penguin to score 100 points in a season, and that was the next year, 75-76.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was definitely their top line.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they combined for 94 goals and 214 points.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So they are actually called the bicentennial line.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Get it, Tim?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Get it?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: The bicentennial line because 1976.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, yeah, how clever.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, on defense, they had a guy named Ron Stackhouse.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: He played for the Penguins from 1970 to 1982.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: That season he had 15 goals and 60 points.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually pretty good for a defenseman.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Gary Innis is the goalie.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: He played 57 games.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: He had 24 wins, 18 losses, and 10 ties.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yay ties, Tim.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um he had a 905 save percentage and 3.10 goals against.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um he's kind of a borderline goalie.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's like okay.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's not great.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um he played most of the season in 73-74 for the Hershey Bears, which is a minor league team.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: They're still exist, they've been around forever.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um in the 74-75 season, he started most of the games for the Penguins.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually ends up getting traded to Philadelphia the season after, I do believe.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so how was uh Gary Innis compared to the league leaders that year?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the two best goalies that I I thought, I mean, just in my opinion, were Bernie Perrin and Ken Dryden.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Bernie Perrin, of course, I had mentioned before he played for Philadelphia um for the Flyers.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um he was the best goalie that year for Philadelphia.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: He actually won the Vesna, he had been a two-time Vesna winner.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um he has 44 wins that year, 1.89 goals against and a 9.9247 save percentage.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um Ken Dryden, the other Hall of Is a Hall of Famer also.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um 30 wins, 2.53 goals against and.916.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely significantly better, I would say, than Gary Innis, but we'll see what happens in the playoffs on Tim.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You never know.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Goalie can get get hot.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the Penguins have had success over the years with um, you know, kind of like like decent goalies, but not superstar goalies.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the regular season, um, the divisions that year were the Adams, Norris, Patrick, and Smythe, the old divisions.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they were not geographically lined up, as you will see shortly.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: As the Atlanta Flames were in the Patrick division with the Rangers, Flyers, and Islanders, which kind of makes sense because that's kind of an Eastern Coast division.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the Penguins, I did not realize this, were actually in the Norris division.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And they were with the Montreal Canadians, Los Angeles Kings, Detroit Red Wings, and Washington Capitals.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of a um weird division.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know what to make of that division, except for it's just fairly oddly cobbled together.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I forget what was the traditional Norwich Norris division.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was with like Minnesota, Detroit, yeah, Chicago.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was Toronto.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Was Toronto no Toronto was in the Adams, yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, Toronto, I think Toronto was in the north, because Toronto was in the west, and then they moved them to the east.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I it sounds like that was kind of like the the remember the old AFC Central and NFC Central, yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of like those Midwestern divisions.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they were trying to do there.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Although I don't know why you have the Los Angeles Kings in there, but because I don't think the Kings had any other teams.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: I well, I think the SEALs might have been around, but there really wasn't many teams out west, was the Seals were probably, I'm guessing, in the other conference.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So and and that was the other thing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: The Norris, the the There was there was the Wales in the Campbell conference, but you're gonna see like in a minute here that it really didn't matter.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: The conferences really don't matter.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So so which conference were the Penguins in?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: They were still in the Wales.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the Norris was in the Wales conference at that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's so confusing because it's hard to keep track of because everything moved around and they really didn't.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I think just because the teams, especially when they added the Western Can Canadian teams, like it just got like a mess.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: It got really a mess.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so I'm sure you're gonna get to this, but what you're saying is the Penguins were in the Wales Conference, but the Islanders, the Patrick Division was in the Campbell conference.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: But they still played each other in the playoffs.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, interesting.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm gonna get to that, yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear about this.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the three best teams that year were the um oh, and the the penguins are still in a five-team division.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, we we talked about that, how that really didn't favor them, didn't do any favors.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the three best teams that year were the Canadiens, Flyers, and Sabres.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: They all finished with 113 points.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins finished third in their division with 89 points.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're behind the Kings and the Canadiens in the Norris division.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, they actually would stay in the Norris division until 1981, until they moved to the Patrick Division.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, fun stuff that happened.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: John Protavos scored 300 points for the Penguins, was the first player to score 300 points for the Penguins.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's over a career.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So Apps uh recorded 200 assists for the Penguins.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um Protavos also became the first person to play in 500 games for the Penguins.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Pierre LaRouche, who's a great rookie, established a rookie regular record for the Penguins.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Ron Schock uh established a new assist record for assists in that season.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: He also established a new franchise record for points in a season, 86 by besting the previous hive, 85.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Ron Stackhouse had the uh record for assists for defenseman.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So the penguins had a really good season this year.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: They really did with this kind of this core of younger players.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Pierre LaRouche, especially, was um yeah, you said he was a rookie.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: He was he was apparently like a um very popular with the ladies kind of a player.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like Jagger, might kind of a little bit like Jagger was, you know, 20 minutes later.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of funny.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was reading the paper, and after one of the games, like the guy was like commenting, oh, uh very uh pretty good looking chick.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my gosh, couldn't write that in the paper today.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah, that would not be acceptable for 1975 newspaper stuff.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so with the new conference and division structure, a new p postseason format was also introduced.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the top three teams in each division made the playoffs, and all 12 clubs were seeded one through twelve based on regular season points, regardless of conference or division.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So they basically just took everybody that was in the top three of the division, put them in a big pot, so to say, and then seeded them.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like the regular season was just a big round robin, if that makes any sense too.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: That that's kind of do you remember they did that the the COVID year too?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: They redid all the divisions, and that was the year you had Montreal and Tampa Bay playing each other in the finals, even though both of those teams are traditionally in the same conference.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of liked I kind of liked like what they did in COVID, and I thought they should stick with this, is just put all the Canadian teams in one like conference.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they had them all they had well, they had them all in one division.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was called like the North Division or something.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like even just it like all the but it would be so uneven, I guess it wouldn't lend itself to play.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: But that way, like at least for the playoffs, they I would guarantee a Canadian team in the in the final, or at least have them be able to make the conference final, you know?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you always have like a Canadian team going far.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my I don't care about that either.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it would be good for getting people to watch hockey, or I mean you go with the theory the Canadians are gonna watch hockey no matter what critical.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say I don't think I don't I don't think we need to to uh capitulate for the Canadians, honestly.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: All right there, Trump.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um anywho, tariffs aside, uh the the the seating ended up being the Flyers were the one overall, the Sabres were the two, and the Sabres had a great uh line called the French Connection, which is just I guess uh named after the movie, or maybe they were French or whatever.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: No word of Gene Hackman was on the line.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um the Canadians were third, the Kings were fourth, the Bruins were fifth, your Pittsburgh Penguins were sixth, the Rangers were seventh, the Islanders were eighth, the Canucks were ninth, the Blues were tenth, Blackhawks eleventh, Maple Leafs twelfth, and after each playoffs they reseed.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, I guess according to points.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins in the first round, which they called the preliminary round, which is interesting, because remember those other teams got a like a first round bye.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the division winners get a bye to the second round, the other teams had to play a preliminary round, so the penguins had to play a blue blues in a best of three.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um Tim, uh good seat's still available for game one of the playoffs, by the way.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh um in game one, the Penguins came back from a 2-0 deficit and a 3-1 deficit in the third.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: The game winner was scored by Pierre LaRouche.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Woo! They go up one game to none on the blues.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then in game two, the penguins win five to three in St.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Louis.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: The game winners are score scored by uh defenseman Colin Campbell.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: He puts the goal, he puts the winning goal past blues goalie, Eddie Johnston.
• 18:19
  unknown: Uh-huh.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that Eddie Johnston, who is being inducted in the Penguins Hall of Honor or Hall of You know, Ring of Honor at some point.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh it's kind of weird, like the connections.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't figure I would recognize too many people, but I recognized more people than I thought.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of game two, I guess the fans in St.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Louis were mad about a call, so they were throwing stuff on the ice.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And two brothers named I guess Plaguer, and they were Bob and Barclay, they actually attacked the referee and uh as the fans were throwing stuff on the ice.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um the name of that referee, Tim, is Andy Van Helmut.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that guy was still officiating, I think, in the 2000s.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think he retired like 2001 or something.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe he made it all the way to the 21st century officiating.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and Colin Campbell, the guy that scored the goal there for the Penguins, he he uh he became one of the league's like executive director of operations.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Remember during the lockout, he was the one that um that you know would dole out.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: He was like the Roger Goodell.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he would dole out punishment right.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins win the series two games, the nun.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I remember some of the reading some of the Penguins that said, Oh, we knew we could come back against them, we weren't too worried when we were down.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I guess Eddie Johnston was at the tail end of his career, I would have to imagine at that point, since like ten years later is going to be picking Mario Lemieux.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not even ten, it's like what seven years later, or no, eighty-four, so I guess almost ten years later.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's weird how life works like that, huh?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: So um the series with the those freaking New York Islanders, Tim.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are going to get to know your New York Islanders of 1975.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the more I research this, the more like I always kind of had like kind of I knew this guy was a good coach, but I really became like, I think this guy is like the most underrated coach in hockey history.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he isn't, maybe just in my mind he was, because you don't hear much about him.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like you hear about Scottie Bowman, Toe Blake, you know, Mike Babcock, all those guys, even Mike Sullivan, but you never hear about Al Arbor.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do do you I mean you've heard of Al Arbor, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, he he's one of those, like I wish I could find a good comparison to like uh another sport, but like one of those guys is He's very under the radar.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: He's like uh I don't know.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think maybe like a like a Joe Gibbs Yeah, yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like when you think back to like the the the era of football that Joe Gibbs coached it, and you had like Bill Walsh and you still had Chuck Nolan, Tom Landry, and Don Shua.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls and was an all-time great coach.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: With a with a bunch of different quarterbacks, a bunch of different quarterbacks, but you don't people don't normally like when you're thinking of all the great coaches, if you just said like name five great coaches from you probably leave off Joe Gibbs, yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: You'd probably leave out Joe Gibbs, yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think Al Arbor is very similar.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um he he they the Islanders in their um, I guess their first season had a terrible year, 72 73.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um so they hired him in 74, and um, you know what?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Al Arbor did not have a losing season for the next 19 years.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's it's impressive.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know hockey isn't like super hard.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not to, but that's I don't know, that's impressive.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, unless you live in Pittsburgh, then you get annoyed by the coach only having non-losing seasons.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: He he had a low-key coaching style.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: He liked to mentor his players.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't like a yeller or a screamer, like he was the opposite of Mike Keenan.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he had a philosophy.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: I remember hear you hearing him say this in the that you had to be able to play different ways or be able to adapt to teams that play different ways to win the cup.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I always thought this was like because it kind of makes sense to me.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: In the years the Penguins have won the cup, they've been able to at least decently play all these ways.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to run and gun, which the Penguins always could.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to play a defensive style, which the Penguins never could.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to be able to like you know do the power play, like because some teams just try and beat you like by taking penalties or always getting a penalty, like be good on special teams.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I always thought that was kind of like an interesting insight because that really is something like each series, it's like you could face a team that could be good or bad at one of these things, and that might be their strength.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, he was actually an innovator, and back in the 70s, this was kind of a new, I guess maybe not in football because they always watched film, but he started to use like video to review.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think in hockey that was definitely a newer thing, I'm sure.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um The Islanders as a team actually finished third in the Patrick Division with 88 points.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, these teams were pretty close in points and season-wise.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Dennis Pott van, um, he's one of the pure defensemen in the N show.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: He actually scored 21 goals that year, which is really good for a defenseman.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he he said he states that he likes to hit and play mean.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he finishes behind Bobby Orr because good god it's Bobby Orr still playing very good in the 70s um in the Norris trophy voting for best defenseman.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I kind of don't blame them for voting for Bobby Orr.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: He was really good.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Ed Westfall is like the old man of the bunch, but he's like a veteran player.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're a pretty young team, also.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like the Penguins are a young team, but the Islanders are a very young team, too.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And he's a right winger, played with the Bruins, had won Stanley Cups for the Bruins in 70 and 72.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's kind of a defensive-minded player, but he did score 22 goals.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's the team captain.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Clark Gillies, he's their left wing, and he's not related to that other Gillies guy that started all those fights with the fight night on the Islanders.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: They are not related.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um he started uh scored 25 goals in 1975.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was actually born in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: He learned to skate at four years old.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's the river.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what he literally like learned to walk, and the next day was like, okay, here's your ice skates.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember my parents used to say that like when we go to a hockey game, it'd be like my parents would go, oh, they they learned those Canadian kids, they learn how to skate before they can walk, or you know, it's like Yeah, that's the most Canadian thing ever learned when you skate at four years old.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then he was playing hockey at six.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So also the most Canadian thing ever.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he was Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, true.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they have a goalie named Billy Smith, who I do believe is in the Hall of Fame.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he 58 games he played, he had 21 wins, 2.78 goals against, and it's kind of they have an interesting goaltending situation.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: They they have a split goaltending.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like they have a guy named Glenn Chico Resch.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I think they called him Chico because he looked kind of looked like um remember of Freddie Prince Jr.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or no, Freddie Prince Sr.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, sorry, my bad.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my apologies.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: But Freddie Prince Sr., he looked from Chico and the man.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: He I guess he looks like Freddie Prince Sr.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he was the backup goalie, but he's like he plays a lot.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: He plays in 25 games and has 2.47 goals against, a little lower goals against, actually, than Billy Smith.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Billy Smith's kind of a brawler though.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember him getting in fights and slashing people, and he wore like that Jason mask from Friday the 13th.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: He was kind of a scary dude.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the 70s, the 70s hockey, if you ever I mean, and I'm sure you're for this.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was rough.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's a little bit more of a um violent game than it is today.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just like football was back then, too.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: People like their violence.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even even even the NBA uh remember like Kermit Washington and stuff like that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was the even the NBA was more violent, so um, so the Islanders actually played the Rangers and they were underdogs in that series, and they actually they forced the Rangers to a game three and upset them.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the the Islanders are kind of an you know a good like good team, and they're like a back against when their backs are against the wall, it seems to be they play their best hockey.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the the penguins had the home ice advantage.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they had more goals or how they even determined that.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um the game was in April, and um the game the Penguins actually hadn't played the Islanders since February, and the Penguins had actually lost that game two to one.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the Islanders like their goaltending in defense, they're doing very well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: They only had one of the lowest 2.76 goals against for the second half of the season.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the Islanders are playing good defensive hockey.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh after the Rangers series, Coach Al Arbor states that he feels like they're a Cinderella team and they just put on the slipper.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So he thinks they're like Cinderella.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, guess what, Tim?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Good tickets are still available before game one of the Islanders here.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, was this at Pacific Arena?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so this is the classic defensive team versus offensive team.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the penguins are their high fly and usual self.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they got Gary Innis in goal.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, they're gonna score some goals, and the Islanders are gonna try to not give up very many goals.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, um and there are articles actually in the paper like comparing this young penguins team to the young up-and-coming Steelers at the time.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Steelers had won a Super Bowl.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if yeah, they won in 74, right?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think they had just won so April, so they just won the Super Bowl, like January or whatever.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Cause there are articles like about the Steelers schedule coming out at the same time.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like I remember on the Steelers schedule, they had to play the college all-stars that that offseason.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: That would be that would be a fun thing to delve into at some point.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: That whole that whole thing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um so game one is uh is is a shootout.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: The penguins win five to four.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think this is the game the Islanders really wanted to play.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um not the style.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let me say the style of game.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: So uh the penguins actually had leads of three to nothing and five to two, but they keep giving up like leads, and they had to kill a penalty late in the game that ended up being a six on three, six skaters versus three skaters, because they pulled the goaltender with a while, they had a power play, which was kind of smart.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, uh Dennis Pott fan says after the game that Gary Innis sucks, but he didn't score any goals.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: So how bad did he suck there, pot fan?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's that's surprising you see that during the series.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess back then the bulletin board material wasn't as prevalent.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Billy Smith gives up five goals in the loss, so not off to a good start there.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh coach Al Arbor says the Islanders were in too much of a hole to work their way out.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which is kind of concerning.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: None of the century line players score in this one.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's all psych secondary players.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Some guy named La LaFrambois, Hatfield, and defenseman Stackhouse of Burrows.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um, unfortunately, and this ends up, I think, becoming a factor.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, but I mean it like to be fair, how many other playoff series or playoff games have the penguins played over the years where the stars don't score, but some secondary guy does and they do okay.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: You said that before about the playoffs, Steve's.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like it really takes like a whole team effort.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: It does, but I I think it shows that maybe like they're probably matching up with Pot Van and what's his name, the captain, Westfall against the Penguins top line would be my guess.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I there's really no video, not much video on this.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't able to I I had to I uh 90% of me was reading the newspaper to find out what happened.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So And and I guess I guess that's that's good for like a game, like you can steal game one or game two, but if if it's a long series, uh I guess the lack of the stars scoring might catch up.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, more more importantly is that Penguins defenseman Barry Wilkins is hurt now for the season, and they actually have to play that game with four defensemen, Tim.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they're they're they're like they're already not a great defensive team, and they're now down a defenseman.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And guess what?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: There was a crowd of 13,404, and it was the largest to see a hockey game in Pittsburgh at that time.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that those good those tickets did sell.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they always say Pittsburgh's a great walk-up town.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: So game two is still in Pittsburgh.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, goalie Gary Innis is out playing Billy Smith for the Islanders.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as the Pens win three to one.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the sentry line does get going in this game with John Protavos and Loil McDowell.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Lo McDonald scoring for the Penguins.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Clark Gillies scores the Glow goal for the Islanders.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um Billy Smith calls the Islanders effort lackadaisical.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: The Penguins Loil McDowell is cautiously optimistic, stating that they can win in Pittsburgh, but can they win on the island, Tim?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um The Islanders Gary Howitt observes he's a I think he's a forward.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Observes that they aren't playing scared hockey and not checking enough on the penguins.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe like I said, the Islanders are a young team, so maybe they're just not you know figuring it out yet here.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So game three, this is on the island.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, in a seven-game series, you're just looking to win one game uh at on the road.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: If you can do that, you're in pretty good shape.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And conversely, I always say you're not in trouble until you lose a game at home in a seven-game series.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of cuts both ways, Tim.
• 33:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: So in game three, it is Penguins Six, Islanders Four.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's his other shootout.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Gary Ennis gives up four goals, but he kind of does the Marc-Andre Fleury Tom Barrasso thing where he stops the ones he needs to.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And late in the game, Gary Islanders defenseman Gary Howitt hits goalie bomb or Gary Ennis and knocks him dizzy.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, kind of like probably concusses him.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like the Penguins had a had a big lead late in the game, and he kind of gives up some like soft goals late because I think he was actually kind of like out of it.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: So but it was a 70, so you gotta stay in there.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Tough it up.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the penguins, you know, that they almost blow it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they give up like two late goal or a late goal with a minute left to like make it a one-goal game.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: But Lowell McDowell ices it with a goal with 20 seconds left.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the Penguins have now won five games in a row, which is like rare for this team at any point in the 70s.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And defenseman Bob Peradis missed the game with the flu.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins actually played this game with two minor league hockey play defensemen from Hershey.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Al Arbor, for his part, says the Islanders are making too many mistakes.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's a historic normally three to nothing, it's it's not been done a lot.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll get into that later.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: That it really, you know, normally in a seven-game series, when you're up three games, the nun, it's not very likely that you're going to come back and win this.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, by the way, and I heard this did play a factor because I think they had to move one of the games.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: So they said John Denver had to cancel his concert that was scheduled for this day to accommodate the hockey game.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if people got their refunds or you know, Rocky Mountain High, Colorado.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not that so John Denver was supposed to perform in New York.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at the whatever can it was calceum, yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they had to cancel his concert so the penguins could play the Islanders.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: This was um I think now this this when I when I looked back, a lot of players cite this game as the game where they lost the series, game four.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is in Keen Deals, but um there's a key thing happens is Al Arbor realizes that maybe he should start playing his backup goaltender.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um you'll see from here on out, let's see.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're gonna see this is very interesting.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: From here on out, the penguins, you know, from here previous, the penguins in the three four, the penguins five, eight, fourteen goals.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: They'd scored fourteen goals in three games.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: So in the next four games, I guarantee you they will not be scoring fourteen goals.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: They switched to Glenn Rish or Chico Rish, whatever.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he responds in game four, the Penguins lose three to one.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's actually kind of like a way closer game because the Islanders score two empty neck goals at the end of the game.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um they they like the paper says like the Islanders actually build like a human wall in front of the goalie.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like they start playing defense, they start checking, they start kind of playing their game.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um they they're holding the penguins the 28 shots.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: The penguins had had 40 shots or so, and um Al Arbor for his part says, Boy, if we can build off the strong performance in the third period, things could get interesting.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: And as I read a little more, like a lot of the players, like they played really bad this game.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Even Mark Ballio, the coach, said that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: They they they felt that this was the turning point in the series, which is interesting because like I've watched a lot of like teams, and normally like if you lose game four, it's not that big of a deal.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can come back and lose game, win game five.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think even in the Stanley Cup final, then the penguins they lost the game five like five to nothing or eight to nothing or something against the Red Wings one year, and they came back and forced a game seven.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: So correct.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Once again, the penguins are not a veteran team, so they have some veterans.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you know, they do have Battleship Kelly, and and they they have like more brawlers than like actual defensemen, too, like, which isn't really good.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that's what Bob parodies too.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: He was kind of more of a brawler than a defenseman.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so game five, um, Glenn Reich signs again.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: He stopped 16 shots in the first period.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the penguins kind of find their game and kind of dominate that.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, Bob Innis, uh yeah, Gary Innis, I mean, is uh starting a seventh game in a row.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he started seven games in a row, but they are taking breaks in between.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like they asked Mark Bulio, the coach, and he said, Well, he'll rest, you know, he gets a day off in between these games, so you know, he'll just rest then.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So And that's typical for playoffs.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, you're not gonna you're not gonna pull like, oh, we're just gonna take a you know, you're not just gonna do that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: So but you know, once again, he gets outplayed by you know this Chico Resch, and um the Islanders win four to two.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's not now the Penguins have gone from scoring three goals a game to like scoring one or two a game, and that very much favors the Islanders, especially with their goalie playing so well.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I think the the goaltending might start to wear down a little bit, but now the penguins too, they're playing from behind a lot, like they're not playing with a lead at all.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um Ron Schock, one of the penguin players, gets actually gets hit in the head with a beer can thrown from the stands, and it caused the delay.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: I guess maybe they're mad about a penalty or the Islanders or who knows what.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: But and and uh Gary Innis calls the fans ignorant for delaying the game and costing the penguins momentum.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh, maybe we could have built some momentum if the fans weren't throwing stuff on the ice.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like excuse making.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, game five, like game four, I don't know.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: I like I said, I didn't get to actually watch the series, but according to the players, it seems like they think game four was a turning point.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I would think game five is the turning point to me because that's game five is the one you probably should win.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: You should be and they got back to their game.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: They they put 16 shots on the Islanders goalie.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that they outplayed them.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm I'm with you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Game game four, that's that's so normal.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can't win every game.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: One team has a spec against the walls.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Against the wall, they're just like, okay, they won game four.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you lose game five, that's when you start to go like, uh Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, just wanted to take a pause in the episode here to let you know that our book chronicling the entire history of the Steelers Ravens rivalry is now 35% off for the holidays.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the Steelers fans in your life who you need to buy a Christmas present for, maybe your dad, your brother, son or daughter, or even a friend.
• 40:51
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• 40:55
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• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there's a game six.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is on the island, and the islanders win a close game, and this is the game where the two empty net goals, I'm I misspoke.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Game six is the two empty net goals at the end.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very close, hard-fought one goal game.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um the uh a Glenn Glen Chico Rush says the Islanders have discovered a system of for-checking that is keeping the penguins from scoring like they did early in the series.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: He also says that he's in love with his goal posts.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because um actually the paper said that he was having an affair, and I was like, what is this?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, because I guess the penguins have hit a couple posts in this series, and this is one of those games where that happened.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: So and I think the paper actually said that he went over and kissed his post or something.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that was they were just joking or if that really happened.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, like Flurry did that in one of like where he kind of like gave the post some love after you know so goalies are an interesting bunch then, Tim.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I just love the paper said, Oh, he's having an affair.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Why are they publishing stuff about this personal?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who cares?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, oh, it's because he said he loved his loved the post.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I probably got something else that would be written a little differently today, but that's okay.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they could have said, is in love with his post, you know.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're getting a lot of help from his post or something like that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Still funny.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think so.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot more harmless than there was a cute babe in the I can't imagine writing that in a major major news location.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh unfortunately now all the pressure has definitely switched back to the penguins because, like you said, like game six, the pressure is still on the islanders because they got to win two games, and the islanders had to win four games in a row to win the series.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So now I always feel when you go into game seven, the pressure shifts to the team that had the early three-game to none lead.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree, Tim?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think even in the series where it was a three-to-one lead.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: The pressure, because we've seen the that a few times in penguins history, and and the pressure is solely on then the team that had the lead, whether it was the penguins or not the penguins, and and uh because at that point it's like the the the the the snowball of momentum has just picked up so much by that point.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so we go to game seven, all the pressures on the penguins.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um mayor Pete Flarity is in the stands for the game.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's I think they have another sellout crowd of thirteen thousand.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: For game seven, I would hope so.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think Bob Peradice actually fights one of the Islanders players.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was Gillies early in the game.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the Islanders do win.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: They they kind of survive the first two periods.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: The goalie really turns away the Penguins.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Al Arbor even says that the first two periods of this Game 7 were the worst two the Islanders had played in their you know in their four-game winning streak here.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: Pierre Le and they lose what's his name?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Ed Westfall scores with like I don't know, five minutes to go in the third period.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the game goes.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think somebody hit a post to again, those those darn posts that are in love with Chico Rush, you know.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Why they why they don't love Gary Innis, I don't know.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: But um they're they're cheating on Gary Innis with you know Chico Rush, I guess.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh the i it's just you know Pierre Louis complains about a holding call that wasn't called on a chance that he had.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: He said he was held by Dennis Pot fan.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: He like you know wrote him into the boards and he wasn't able to get a good I don't know, it probably was.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was the 70s, they did hook and hold a lot back then.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um for for his part, Penn's coach Mark Billy, whatever, says the team got overconfident staying they played terrible in game four, but we're a little better today.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm according to uh the writer Al Abrams, who's the also the guy who wrote the cute chick comment, he said that fans were singing Crimea River after the game.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also fans saying, Oh, well, you know, if you can't win one out of three or four, you know, you don't deserve to win.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that old, you know, the fourth and one, you can't get a yard.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like the same kind of mentality.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: So so that Westfall goal with you know eight minutes left or whatever, that was that was the only goal of the entire game.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was one to nothing.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's brutal.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's a one-nothing.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it was nothing-nothing in the third period.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: So so actually, you know, Gary, I mean, one-nothing, you really can't blame your goalie on that one.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a pretty good goal type performance.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta you gotta be able to score a goal when you're presenting on the line.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just think Rush and the defense of the islanders just you know, especially maybe wore down the penguins a little bit.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just were able to nullify.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there was something strategically they were doing that was you know they couldn't adjust to.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: So but Crimea River, Tim.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so why did the penguins lose, Tim?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to say, what about playing with two minor league defensemen?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that would definitely hurt your channel, especially it's so weird.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is such a different series.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like the first three games are so offensive, and the last four are so defensive.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, there were what 14 goals in the in the first three.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: In the last four, there was one, three, four, there were four goals.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and the islanders, you know, scored three, five, nine.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: They scored ten goals in the last.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it really, it was like a switch was flipped or something.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just I I don't know.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe did the the you know Innis the goalie wear out.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just I I'll give credit to the goalie from the Islanders, Chico Resch.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that saved the Islanders season.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um it that was really probably the goaltending is such a wild card in in the series.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you said, I think it's it's a combination of because you said when they switched to goaltenders, they build a wall around them.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they they they got more discipline.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh no, we you know, we got the other goaltender, we got Billy Smith benched because we weren't good on our fundamentals, so let's really lock down and you know, so so it it it it's sometimes not just that you the one player does better, but sometimes it just picks up the whole team, too.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: And also you gotta remember, these teams were closely matched.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um they they had played, you know, within one point you know of each other where they finished in the regular season standing.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like you know, one team was like clearly better or anything.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it was got probably should have been a close series the whole way.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just was weird how it played out.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: If it would have been a seven-game series, because the pens won one, the islanders on one, two, one, two, like that would have then that that would have made more sense.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: But my goodness, you can't blow a three to nothing weed.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of bad luck, too.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the penguins hit a lot of posts, obviously.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe those darned posts weren't so in love with Chico and the man.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh what could we have done to make the hockey gods love us?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um so now we get to the aftermath, and the aftermath is uh pretty uh depressing, Tim.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it it's it it's it's Berlin 1945 here, people.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I le and I I just joking, I not really.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um Islanders, they they they actually go and play the Flyers in the next series, and they actually go down three games to none against the Flyers.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what will they do there?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, they do the same thing, they force a game seven after being three downs three games to none.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if Bernie it said Bernie Parent was hurt, but I think Bernie Parent did play this series, so you know they had Bernie Parent.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: The Flyers aren't gonna like be intimidated by physical play, so the Flyers do win that, but it takes them seven games to win that.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um just to wrap up the season is the Flyers play the uh Buffalo Sabres in that French connection because the Sabres had beat Montreal in the other playoffs, and um the Flyers win the cup over the Sabres.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh hey Steve, how many ceiling cups have the Flyers won since then?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think that number would be zero.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a shame.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the Penguins actually they go and lose in the first in the first round the next two years, I think.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And but they do make it to the semifinals in 1979.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think was that another one they lost to the Blues?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't look that up.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think they lost to the Blues.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of weird.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: They for all those like great teams with that that pronouns and all them, they never pay make it past the semifinals until 1991.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think they stopped, they didn't make the playoffs for a while after 79, I think, or 81.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: So for his part, uh Boullier moves on and coaches a team called the Quebec Nordiques.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot to mention them.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: They are a WHA team that moved the NHL too, but they're defunct they're now in are they in Colorado?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're the Avalanche.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he actually wins that Avco Cup in 1977.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know how I mean they did have some talent, but they hadn't gotten some guy named Gretzky in 1979 who played for a put a little bit of an asterisk on that one.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um the st the Islanders for their part, you would think actually took them to 1980 to really start their cup run.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um they they had a cup run from 1980 to 1983 of winning the cups four years in a row.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: They are the last team to three peat in hockey.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's still to this day the last team to three-peat.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's not the last team to three-peat in sports.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: We've gone over that.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um Al Arbor for his part uh haunts the Penguins in 1993, beating probably the greatest penguins team ever on a uh shot in overtime in game seven, I do believe.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, who scored it?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: Was that Vollock or David Volick?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Dennis Potvan, for his part, is in the hockey hall of fame.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's considered one of the hundredth greatest players in the NHL Tim.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: He he ends up being a really good player.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Gary Innes, um, like I said, he he bounces between the NHL and the minor leagues for the rest of his career, gets traded to Philadelphia.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think he played for the Capitals a little bit.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Really doesn't do much of anything after this series.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I can't see why.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the sentry line does stay intact, but like I said, they never make it out of the second round of the playoffs.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um so for historical context, Tim, would you say this is the greatest collapse in Pittsburgh sports history?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it has to be.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's only, I don't know if you're gonna go over this, but there's only what five times in any sport, any major sport that has a seven-game series.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll we'll go over it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh happened three other times in major sports with a seven-game series, and that's the NHL, the NBA, and baseball.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um the it has to be at that time in 1975, it was the greatest collapse since 1942, Maple Leafs, and that was actually Stanley Cup final that they had done, you know, done we'll call it the reverse sweep for the kids.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they had run over the Red Wings winning four in a row after going down three games to none.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um the 2010 Eastern Conference semifinals, the Flyers did it to the Bruins, and that was the first time that it happened since 1975, of course.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2014, which is weird, four years later, the Kings did it over the Sharks.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um now in baseball, it has only happened one time in Major League Baseball.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: And can you guess what that was?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because it pains me to even say that.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was the red Red Sox beating the Yankees in 2004.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot stand that Red Sox team.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: I bloody sock and all.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Go to hell.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't stand the Yankees either, so it wasn't like I'd rather have the Yankees than any day over that crap.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, other notable collapses.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they are actually, I think the Red Sox were actually down in the ninth inning, like a run or something too.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um Japanese baseball in 1989, a team came back from three to none three to none.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: I do remember that because it never it's never it never before 2004 it happened in Major League Baseball, it happened in Japanese baseball, but but it's never happened in like you know the World Series.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know if teams have forced the game seven in the World Series.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: After being down three years.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's been a couple near misses like that, Islanders near missed.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's been a couple teams that have, you know, done like the you know, with get to game seven but lose.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's never happened in the World Series.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: That happened in the 2020 ALCS.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where um I think somebody pushed the Dodgers to game seven.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was the Aspers.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, it was the Tampa Bay.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: The Aspers came back from three games to down three games to one to nothing, but they lost Game 7 to the to the Rays.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was another um 2024 was another almost where in hockey where the um Panthers let a three-game to none sleeve slip to the Oil under Oilers, but they're won games.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: Game seven.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's never happened in the NBA, correct?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, it never happened in the NBA.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so so between the between the three major North American sports leagues that have seven game series, that's MLB, NBA, and NHL, you're saying it's only happened five times total.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the penguins are it's historic, Tim.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's history.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: You made it well.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: To answer your earlier question, yes, this is the biggest collapse in the history of Pittsburgh Sports.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think I think that's uh concluded.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I I I tried to I tried to like you know do some other ones like 2020.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: The Steelers start 11-0 and finish 12-4 and lose to the Browns.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: That that's a pretty good collapse there, huh?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: But but that that team wasn't.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know they were 11-0, but they weren't that good.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, you're 11-0, you're 11-0.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they weren't.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think they would have been fine.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: I still we'll have to do a whole podcast.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a separate topic, but I don't think that's as big as a collapse as the 75 pens.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's that's a weird season to begin with, and there's a lot of reasons why that was a veteran team and the NFL did them no favors.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll leave it at that.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, how about the Pirates blowing a two to nothing lead in the bottom of the ninth against Atlanta?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's bad, and that's been horrific, and we've gone over that in other ones, the Sid Slid stuff.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that's as bad as this.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I I don't know.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it's it's worse in terms of what it meant for the franchise and and everything else.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Although, then again, I mean the Penguins, I I don't know if you're gonna go over this either, but I mean that that after they lost that playoff series, it was like a month later that the IRS padlocked their doors.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm not saying that they would have if they win that series and move on and make a run to the cup, you know, did they do they did they declare bankruptcy?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have sell enough tickets to people really get excited?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you said the Steelers had just won the Super Bowl.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates were really good back then.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine the Penguins make a run to the Stanley Cup finals.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, does that does that get the the city on fire for hockey?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Does that change the whole trajectory of where the penguins were going?
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they were they were looking for new ownership too, which was just weird.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the NHL was considering moving them, which was odd.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and not surprising given that their financial situation is they declared bankruptcy, you know, a month later.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: But but but that would have been harder to to do and and where owners would have been easy easier to find.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: All that stuff would have gone smoother had they made this run and the city would have been excited rather than I'd rather than pulling it three games than unlead, and everybody's like, well, they suck.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh those 13,000 sell-out people that didn't normally come to hockey games, I'm guessing probably weren't excited to come back the next season after watching that.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: Mayor Pete Flairy did go on to work for the uh Carter administration, so he had that going for him.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe he was so disappointed, he was like, Darn it, I'm gonna go work for a really bad president.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I I don't know what to say about the Penguins.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they they just this was kind of like emblematic of how they were until Mario showed up.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're just a sad sack, you know, franchise that didn't get a lot of fans in attendance.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, that they declared bankruptcy.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: The IRS put a padlock on the doors, were like, oh, you gotta pay your taxes.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just just a lot of like bad stuff happened to the Penguins in this era, and it really didn't change until Eddie Johnson said, We're picking Mario Lemieux.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, and and you're right, it was just a lot of bad luck.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh even after they picked Mario Lemieux, there was still a lot of bad luck.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and and and then the Islanders, my god, like we that's another thing we do a whole episode on because after this was the 82 series, which was another tragedy, and then the 93 series that you mentioned, which was probably the worst loss in the history of the team.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then even the 2021, the was that 2021 series where that was right.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Jarry gave up the goal.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, the only time they beaten the islanders that was on a Brooks Orbic overtime goal.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that was in 2013.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: But but then 2021 Jari gives them the puck and open double overtime.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's just been this terrible history against the Islanders, and Al Arbor was there for most of it.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he was their coach for 20 years, right?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Al Arbor still, I still say like he's one of the most underrated like hockey coaches of all time.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, you want a fun fact about Al Arbor?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's a fun fact?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when he retired in 1994, he had coached 1,499 games.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the Islanders decided in 2007.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, to let him coach a game to get the yeah.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to let him coach one game for the 1500th game.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Guess who that was against, Steve?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: They they picked the penguins, didn't they?
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: They picked the penguins.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what the end result of that game was, Steve?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: The Islanders won like 20 to nothing or something.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: So just one last middle finger from Al Arbor.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like 20, like uh 15 years after he retired.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know, Al Arbor, great coach, underrated, fun to talk about.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really respect the guy, dude.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: I respect the hell out of the guy.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: How can you not?
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he won four Stanley Cups, last guy to three Pete.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Bolier, for his part, did go and get a championship in that other league.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I and they couldn't it couldn't have been that big bad of a league because they were they did have like Gretzky and some of those other people at the end there.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: So well, I think that wraps it up on this uh disappointing episode, Tim.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um were you were you significantly disappointed in the Penguins?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I can't imagine the people that were because, like you said, the Penguins didn't have a ton of diehard fans back then, but they had diehard fans, and that had to have just been crushing.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Mark Madden was one of those people.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he was like a 14-year-old kid at the time.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he's he actually said he literally cried after game seven.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: For the most part, it was fun.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was a fun uh thing to look up and relive the 70s and people throwing beer cans at Ron Schock, apparently.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I who fights a who fights a referee?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's unbelievable.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the 70s, the 70s are just a very, very different time.
• 1:02:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh, as usual, check us out on Facebook, uh, comment, like us, um, you know, give us a good rating on whatever podcast service you see us at.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Check us out at Pittsburgh Sports Memories at weebly.com, and um we'll check you out next time.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hopefully it won't suck as bad.