Latest / Drawn of History / Anger Expert Explains Why People Get Mad About Politics(M4A_128K)

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Anger Expert Explains Why People Get Mad About Politics(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: There are some opinions that we can just agree to disagree.
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  Speaker 1: And then there's other stuff that is like, no, this
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  Speaker 1: is like, this is real personal.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: We didn't used to, people didn't used to care about
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  Speaker 2: it that much though. Yeah. They did. I think it
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  Speaker 2: is interesting how much, like people used to never talk
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  Speaker 2: about politics that much. You would kind of say maybe
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: who you were going to vote for and kind of,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes you give a couple lines about it, but you never,
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  Speaker 2: I feel like would be like, Oh, screw you for
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  Speaker 2: voting for that. Like it would never, even the thought
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  Speaker 2: would never come into your head. I feel like.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like it's taken center stage. And
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  Speaker 1: I wonder how much of that is, is, I mean, it's,
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  Speaker 1: it's probably a lot of it is exacerbated by social media.
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  Speaker 1: I suspect the 24 hour news cycle also led to
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  Speaker 1: that too. Right.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of stuff that create a lot of anger. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I used to be able to take a
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  Speaker 2: day off half the day off, but now they're like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you need a little more anger.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, intentionally so. I mean it's like– so there's
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  Speaker 1: plenty of research out there that says that content, news
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  Speaker 1: or anything else that makes people angry or scared is
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  Speaker 1: far more likely to go viral than other stuff, right?
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  Speaker 1: And so politicians know that. And just purely from a
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  Speaker 1: financial perspective, if you put an ad out that makes
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  Speaker 1: people mad, it's going to get more clicks. It's going
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  Speaker 1: to get– I mean you double the value essentially of
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  Speaker 1: that ad. by making people mad with it.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So there are people who are benefiting financially from our rage.
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  Speaker 1: And that's not just true with politicians. That's true with, with,
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  Speaker 1: you know, Fox news, CNN, et cetera. They, they want
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  Speaker 1: to make people mad.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Instead of just having an article, they'll, they'll reframe
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  Speaker 2: the title. So it has an enemy. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: That's pretty crazy. Dealing with anxiety and stress in the
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  Speaker 2: age of the 24-7 news cycle. Interesting. Let me see.
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  Speaker 2: Whether it's the coronavirus, political divisiveness, threats of terrorism, or
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  Speaker 2: mass shootings, you might not be immediately affected by these issues,
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  Speaker 2: but constant exposure to 24-hour news and social media, which
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  Speaker 2: is often heavily skewed towards the negative, can adversely influence
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  Speaker 2: your mental health and overall well-being. More than 70% of
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  Speaker 2: Americans believe the media blows things out of proportion, which
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  Speaker 2: may seem harmless, but it could lead to increased stress
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  Speaker 2: and anxiety. Wow. But the tough part is if we're
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  Speaker 2: addicted to it, though. Right. That's the tough part is
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  Speaker 2: if we're addicted to it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's because, I mean, you know, people are
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  Speaker 1: drawn to this thing that ultimately causes them harm.
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  Speaker 2: Right. You know? What is that? Has that always been?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, has it just been since the apple in
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  Speaker 2: the Garden of Eden, you know? I mean, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Information is, I mean, people crave information, right? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that's another emotion that I like to talk about sometimes
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  Speaker 1: is curiosity, right? And people do crave information. It makes
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  Speaker 1: them feel good about themselves, especially if they can share
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  Speaker 1: it with other people. It's like a form of social currency.
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  Speaker 1: And so knowing things is, you know, better than not
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  Speaker 1: knowing things. And so people are drawn to media. And
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  Speaker 1: then when that media makes them mad... they're more likely
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  Speaker 1: actually to share it with other people. They're more likely
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  Speaker 1: because it gets the reaction they want, right? So if
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  Speaker 1: I came in here and told you just some sort
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  Speaker 1: of arbitrary fact, you'd be like, ah, that's great. But
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  Speaker 1: if I came in here and told you something that
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  Speaker 1: made you really mad, now I'm getting a reaction.
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  Speaker 2: I'd be like, what the heck? Yeah. What are we
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  Speaker 2: going to do about it? Exactly. It's pretty crazy.
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  Speaker 1: And then we problem solve.
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  Speaker 2: So we've really just, we've kind of like death hacked
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  Speaker 2: ourself in a way. Like there's life hacks and then
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  Speaker 2: I feel like there's death hacks. And I feel like sometimes,
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  Speaker 2: The algorithm does that, you know, or the possibility to
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  Speaker 2: always have it at your fingertips.
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  Speaker 1: I think if there's a thing that I find sort
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  Speaker 1: of most dangerous or worrisome about modern day America or
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  Speaker 1: the world is the degree to which we are isolating ourselves,
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  Speaker 1: especially from people that we might disagree with. And the
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  Speaker 1: degree to which we're not having like real conversations with
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  Speaker 1: people that– where we can get an opportunity to learn
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  Speaker 1: how they think, right? We make assumptions about what other
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  Speaker 1: people are doing and saying and those– and then we
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  Speaker 1: react to those assumptions more than we react to what's
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  Speaker 1: actually happening.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting how much we've become kind of
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  Speaker 2: palpable by like– I don't know if I just want
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  Speaker 2: to say mainstream media but by– bigger stories maybe that
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  Speaker 2: we didn't write ourselves kind of. Yeah. You know?
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  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, when you, when you think about
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  Speaker 1: what like the social media algorithms do and how we
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  Speaker 1: end up seeing the content that we agree with more regularly,
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  Speaker 1: we interact with people who think like us more regularly, right? We,
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  Speaker 1: we just are seeing that we're connected. I put that
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  Speaker 1: sort of in quotes, but connected to more people than
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  Speaker 1: ever before. But not really because, one, we're only seeing
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  Speaker 1: a very specific sliver of their lives. And we're not
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  Speaker 1: having this– we're not necessarily engaging with people who are
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  Speaker 1: different from us very regularly.
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  Speaker 2: I mean do you guys notice that we're any angrier
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  Speaker 2: now than we were in the past? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: This is– I wish we could go back in time
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  Speaker 1: and have some sort of an anger thermometer that could
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  Speaker 1: measure anger over time because this is the question that
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  Speaker 1: I think everybody wants to know the answer to is,
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  Speaker 1: are we angrier now than we used to be? And
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  Speaker 1: in so many ways, it sure seems like we are
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  Speaker 1: because we see tons of examples of it. We see
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  Speaker 1: so much rage. I think the parts that we don't
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  Speaker 1: have answers to is, one, is a lot of that
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  Speaker 1: rage just more visible now than it used to be?
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Are we seeing it more now because of social media? Right.
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  Speaker 1: So we get we get more stuff captured on video
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  Speaker 1: than we ever did. And that might be what's happening,
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  Speaker 1: that those things were happening before.
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  Speaker 2: We just didn't know.
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  Speaker 1: It could also be, you know, that that particular expression
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  Speaker 1: styles have become normalized. Right. So yelling, screaming, those things
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  Speaker 1: are becoming like. hostility, those things are becoming more common.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And so maybe that anger was there, but, but those
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  Speaker 1: outward expressions are much more common now. I think there
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  Speaker 1: is some, some reason to think we're angrier now than
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  Speaker 1: we used to be. I mean, I mean, I think
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  Speaker 1: like we're social, the stuff we just were saying about
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  Speaker 1: social media is definitely bringing out.
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  Speaker 2: With the illusion. I think there was used to be
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  Speaker 2: more of, I think like tradition we had, It felt
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  Speaker 2: like there was more of a sense of togetherness maybe.
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  Speaker 2: I wonder if those things left people feeling more complete
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  Speaker 2: or safer in their country. I do start to notice
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  Speaker 2: that there starts to feel a little bit of like
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  Speaker 2: what could happen in 15 years as opposed to that
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  Speaker 2: was never a thought when I was a kid. It
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  Speaker 2: was always like. I feel like we're going to be
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  Speaker 2: okay here. Um, so I wonder if some of that,
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  Speaker 2: like just subconsciously starts to boil inside of you.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I absolutely think so. I mean, I think, you know,
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  Speaker 1: one of the things we're dealing with, and I think
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  Speaker 1: a lot of this is post pandemic, but not just
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  Speaker 1: post pandemic is, you know, so anger dovetails pretty closely
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  Speaker 1: with anxiety, right? Um, that, that these two emotions are
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  Speaker 1: pretty similar. They actually feel pretty similar physiologically. Um, so
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  Speaker 1: there's a, there's a lot of overlap there. And, I
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  Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that Americans are, and probably worldwide,
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  Speaker 1: people are more anxious now about the future than they
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  Speaker 1: have been for a very long time, right?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And that anxiety, it comes from a place of uncertainty about,
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  Speaker 1: you know, safety and financial security and all these things.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, even having jobs. I mean, as they say, like,
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  Speaker 2: every day here, AI is going to take your job,
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  Speaker 2: you know? And the guy's like, I'm unemployed. And they're like,
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  Speaker 2: it'll take that job. You're like, Jesus, I can't even
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  Speaker 2: be unemployed anymore. But I think there is a little
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  Speaker 2: bit of fear, even somebody who's just sitting on their
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  Speaker 2: couch watching, you know, eating Fritos and is watching, you know,
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  Speaker 2: TV shows all day that they're, even that job's going
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  Speaker 2: to be taken. They're going to be like, well, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to lose this. Right. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there is this, all of
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  Speaker 1: this uncertainty is leading to people. And because I think
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  Speaker 1: in some ways that part of what happens is it
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  Speaker 1: leads to some competitiveness. It leads to like, hey, look,
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  Speaker 1: the pie is getting smaller that we all share. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm worried that I'm not going to have enough, right?
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  Speaker 1: And I'm not going to be able to make ends meet.
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  Speaker 1: And all of that leads to, you know, frustration with
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  Speaker 1: your fellow humans, right? Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Because your perspective is suddenly, I've got to take care
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  Speaker 2: of myself. Instead of like, we have to take care
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  Speaker 2: of each other. Exactly. And that gets a little creepy.
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  Speaker 1: Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: What do we do with pervasive anger at society and
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  Speaker 2: ideology situation out of control?
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  Speaker 1: Uh, I think that's another thing that happened during the
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  Speaker 1: pandemic is that I think people– I think a lot
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of people in the United States and probably globally really
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  Speaker 1: started to feel like they couldn't trust each other.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that happened in lots of ways, right?
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  Speaker 1: It was sort of a sense of, hey, people aren't
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  Speaker 1: going to– they're more interested in themselves than they are
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  Speaker 1: in taking care of each other, right? They won't. you know,
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  Speaker 1: do X, Y, or Z. They won't wear masks. They
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  Speaker 1: won't open things up. They're not worried about my finances.
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  Speaker 1: They're not, you know, they're, they're, they're only worried about
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  Speaker 1: their own thing. And I think that, that scared people and,
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  Speaker 1: and led to a lot of animosity amongst people.
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  Speaker 2: When I think also people didn't know if their government
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  Speaker 2: cared anymore, which was even like a, which was probably
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  Speaker 2: similar in the sense that we're like, can I trust
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  Speaker 2: my government? Can I trust like, um, You know, you
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  Speaker 2: see stories like the opioid epidemic. And you're like, the
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  Speaker 2: fact that the family didn't even go to jail or
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  Speaker 2: face any time. and the amount of you know uh
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  Speaker 2: the amount of pain that that caused so many families
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  Speaker 2: not to mention deaths right but i think you know
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  Speaker 2: things like that it makes you start to question so
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  Speaker 2: if you don't even think you know if you can
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  Speaker 2: i mean you can always kind of question your government
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  Speaker 2: i think that that's safe and question society and what's
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  Speaker 2: going on it's good to think um curiously but i
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  Speaker 2: feel like that was probably another thing that happened is
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  Speaker 2: people were like i don't know we every commercial is
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  Speaker 2: about drugs like it's just like who can i where
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  Speaker 2: can i get valid information and who can i trust
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  Speaker 2: yep and it probably became scary you like i have
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  Speaker 2: to start with myself.
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  Speaker 1: Yep and i think that that sort of uncertainty leads
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  Speaker 1: to feelings of frustration leads to And, and, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think part of what happened too, is that for
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  Speaker 1: some people, they felt like, well, the answers here are obvious.
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  Speaker 1: And so why don't other people see how obvious these
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  Speaker 1: answers are? And, and, and I don't know that the
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  Speaker 1: answers were necessarily obvious, but, but I think that people
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  Speaker 1: felt like, why can't people just do whatever? And then
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: we can get through this. Right. And when other people.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: You mean during COVID, you mean?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. During COVID.
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  Speaker 2: And then, yeah. Yeah. I think people, and people had
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  Speaker 2: just also just, real different views of it. It was
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: like in California, things were very locked down. And then here, um,
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  Speaker 2: things were more open, you know? And it was like,
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  Speaker 2: what's the best way to do this? It was hard
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  Speaker 2: to learn.
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  Speaker 1: Even, I mean, you know, I live in, in green
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  Speaker 1: Bay and we've got, you know, there's the, there's the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: green Bay public schools and there's other public school districts
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  Speaker 1: that are like connected, but they're all doing different things.
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  Speaker 1: And so there's a sense of, well, here we're doing this.
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  Speaker 1: five miles away, they're doing something different.
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  Speaker 2: Why?
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  Speaker 1: You know, what's going on? And so then there's an
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  Speaker 1: anger and frustration amongst the people who live in those communities.
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  Speaker 1: And then people saying, well, I'm going to take my
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  Speaker 1: kids and send them to that school because they're doing
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  Speaker 1: this or I'm going to, you know. And so all
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  Speaker 1: of these things started to bubble up and lead to frustration.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of frustration. Yeah. And really, I know
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  Speaker 2: how to do it. People wanted to, yeah, the second
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  Speaker 2: you don't trust or believe that your society that's built
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  Speaker 2: kind of has a, is looking out for you. or
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  Speaker 2: you can trust it that it really, you gotta go
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  Speaker 2: back to yourself.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and then, I mean, imagine if it, if we're
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  Speaker 1: not talking about society, we're just talking about a family, right?
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  Speaker 1: And what you as like a kid and a family realize, wow,
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  Speaker 1: the other people in this family aren't necessarily going to
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  Speaker 1: do the things that are best for me.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: It becomes real hard to, to continue to feel good
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  Speaker 1: about that. And over time, right. People have to earn
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: that trust back. And I think we're right now in
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  Speaker 1: a phase where. Where people don't feel like anyone's earning
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  Speaker 1: that trust back. They're just like, we still don't trust
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  Speaker 1: each other. They don't have my best interests in mind.
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  Speaker 1: They don't care about the same things as me. What
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  Speaker 1: am I going to do? How are we going to
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  Speaker 1: get through this? And I don't think anybody's got any
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  Speaker 1: answers to that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if it's one of those things
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that just takes time. I mean, that's always the thing.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're right. I mean, I think time
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: is going to be part of it. I hope that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: there are things we can rally around.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Humor is usually a good one yeah absolutely I know
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: they're trying to put out like I mean you would
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: say that you're a comedian that's probably true I would
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: hope to say it huh they just put out they
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: just had a new show Tires on Netflix which is
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: really crazy I've seen an ad for it I haven't
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: watched it yet it's like different than a lot of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: stuff they put on there it's just like it seems
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: like it's from like totally like the 80s or something
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you know it's just kind of like just humor without
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: like judging that every person in the in the show
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: has to have certain, like, like you're just letting people be,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: they could be characters. Like you could have a character.
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  Speaker 2: You're like, Oh, that guy's hilarious, but I don't agree
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  Speaker 2: with him. Whereas to be like, Oh, that guy, I'm
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: not even to see if he is hilarious because I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: don't agree with the character. Right. And it's like, dude,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: it's okay. You know? So like just things being more, um,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: possible or just open their brains to like, okay, a character, uh,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: could believe differently than I do.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Right. Yep.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Right. Cause I think for a while it's been like,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I don't even want my characters. Right. To have any
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: different views than I do. That's kind of crazy. Yeah.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: When you think about that.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm drowning, but I only want a superhero
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to show up if he feels exactly the same way
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I do. Yeah.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: When it's tough. I mean, like, you know, I think
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: one of the tricky things we've had to deal with
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: is that there are, I mean, there are opinions that
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: people can like sort of rally around. There are opinions
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that people can like disagree with and in an understandable,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: reasonable way, right? Reasonable disagreements. But then so often those
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: disagreements are about like real scary stuff. It's not me
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: disagreeing about like, hey, is Cats a good movie? I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: don't know why I picked Cats. I think it's because
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: my son loved the movie Cats.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, he did? I haven't seen it, I don't think. Okay.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to recommend it.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's my advice to you. If you walk away
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: with one thing from this episode, it's that you probably
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: shouldn't see cats. Fair.