Latest / Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce / How To Tell If Your Partner Has Really Changed | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep480

Transcript

How To Tell If Your Partner Has Really Changed | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep480 · Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: How to tell if my partner has changed.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Labeling your partner, and I'm gonna go with narcissist.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Submitting to your husband triggers versus cognitive distortions, guys.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, this might trigger you and put you into your own distortion.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: 90% of marriages fail.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: How to tell if my partner has changed?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This comes from one of the podcast questions, and I don't know if we've ever directly talked about this, but I thought it'd be fun.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, here's the thing one of the most welcome to the Moral Marriage Podcast, guys.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: They already know they're welcome.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're sitting in our living room.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: In our podcast studio, we're in their house, actually.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, that's right.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: We we know that when a man or a woman doesn't believe their partners or changes, or changes are real, that they're not gonna last, that it's too little, too late, we know there's another side of that where people desperately want to believe the changes, and they have a harder time trusting.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they have um a harder time believing, and you start relying more and more on hope instead of feeling safe in the security of what you have.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when somebody asked me, like this, I think it was a woman on the the podcast questions.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, how do I really know if the changes are real?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the first thing is before you guys could ever move forward, it doesn't matter if the changes are real or not.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say, even if they're not real, are they changing?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are they trying?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you want them to become real?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want them to become real?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna make them real if you don't support them when they're let's just let's just say they're fake because they're not authentic?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's the problem because most of you will wait for the shoe to drop and therefore you won't support in the same way.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've used this example before, but I've talked about quitting smoking like 5,000 times.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, there was a time where Catherine wasn't great with supporting because I let her down, but also there's that would never happen today, as far as I can tell.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: She's just always supportive.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I say I'm gonna quit or cut back, she's like, uh Okay.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the way you have to be if you want to start to believe in your partner's changes being real.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're waiting for, well, like Catherine can say, Oh, okay, you said this 5,000 times.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: What if that was the one time that it was gonna change?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not like I make no effort from it.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now that doesn't matter.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you know your own changes are real?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to I talk to women about this all the time.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the beginning, when you make changes, it's purely behavioral.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or, like I say to my clients, you're just gonna change because Catherine said so.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So your behavior changes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is just superficial.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so behavioral changes first.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: As you start to change your behavior and you start to see that things are different, you oh, Catherine told me to do this, I did it, and it worked.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna keep doing it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the behavior still might feel like it sucks.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It still might be hard, but your mindset now starts to shift because you say, Okay, well, when I do this, my life changes like this, it becomes a little bit easier.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So now your mindset has now changed.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: When it becomes real for you, is one step further.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Once your mindset shifts, now the behavior becomes a little bit easier, then your heart posture changes.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: When your heart posture changes, then you become 100% authentic.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're authentic, that means it is who you are.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not at authenticity yet, if your heart posture hasn't changed, if you're holding on to bitterness and resentment, or you're only doing it because Catherine and Cass said so, or you're only doing it because you know that it works, you're not doing it because it comes from a place that's in your heart that's authentic, then your changes aren't real yet either.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to respect the other person because you you don't even know when yours are authentic, let alone when someone else's are authentic.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Someone somebody changes their behavior, you should know how difficult it is to change your behavior.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've tried to do something, like quit smoking, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or work out.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, work out, go for walks, be better with your kids, be less defensive.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you try to do it and it's hard, but you know that there's fruit of that labor.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when your husband or your wife makes changes, I don't actually care if the changes are real.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: If they're real, the behavior is different, then that is real.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are they authentic in their heart yet?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, but neither are you.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: You have to change your behavior just to accept it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two-way street.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is the I'm so glad you brought this up because you can never accept your partner's changes are real or even trust consistency.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: For example, a great many people stop cheating, stop drinking, stop overeating, start start learn to make money, and their partner will still not trust that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been years.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even tell you how many examples I could give you and how many times I've heard about years and years and years.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there's lots of things that we talk about with supporting behaviors and things like that that trigger them and whatever.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of changes that Catherine's talking about.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you don't um reflect first and go, well, they may have to change, and we'll just use something like that porn or alcohol, okay?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not yelling is a big one, okay?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They they become somebody that doesn't scream all the time or swear all the time.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've talked to probably thousands of men who've been in that same, I've been in that position where you make that those changes and you are a lot better, but it's still not believable.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: She could never trust it from me.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can't trust it from your partner if you don't look within and reflect on what it is that you could fix, what it is that you partake in, what buttons do you push?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Being defensive is a really good example for someone who's angry all the time.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they are trying, and then they feel attacked, and you defend yourself thinking, well, they just can't do it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: The person that asked this question is just like everybody who can you you don't move forward because you're always saying, stop hurting me, instead of saying, What can I do differently?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're blaming them when you are in the situation that you allowed in your life.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what it is.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, almost everything in your life doesn't happen to you.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: It happens because of choices you made up until now.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what pisses me off.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you should, how can I believe my partner's changes are real and trust them?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fuck, how can you believe that you're so perfect?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: How?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: How in the world?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: If if you guys are following us and I was so emotionally, physically, and sexually abusive towards Catherine, if I was a narcissist and I'm not now, and my wife reflects better than you and accepted that she wanted to change things about her, you're asking the wrong question.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the wrong people.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's it, it's not that I thought I was perfect, but I didn't look at what I could change until I did.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I did, that's why we're so passionate about this, guys.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're looking in the wrong place.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I still believe that it was 90% my husband's fault.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I the the behaviors in me would not have come out the same way if he didn't bring them out.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were obviously in there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not all his fault that they came out.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was capable of those behaviors.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was capable of all of this.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was capable of enabling all of the bullshit that he served me.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: If I never looked at myself and said, How can I be different?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do differently?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: What am I doing wrong?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what's wrong with me?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: We never would have gotten out of that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be divorced.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the first question you ever asked yourself.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and I don't, I don't know.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't in your brain.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I think that that's the first thing I recall you saying is like, well, if he's a narcissist, what does that say about me?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does it say about me?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so let's flip this now.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can I believe my husband Cass is um is changed, that he's not gonna have another narkout again?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, she's asking herself, what is it about her that got her here?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then she started to reflect and make those changes.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand you need to trust your partner and that they need to make changes.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact is that if you're asking that question, that means you've had conversations about them wanting to change, you needing to see change, and what you need exactly.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and so if that's the case, then you have no business judging them.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: We don't, that same from that couple in the last episode.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck, I said this over and over to them.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have you don't get to say and decide what hurts more.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter if her 10%.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: See, the thing is, the big part of Catherine was feeding my abandonment issues, my insecurity issues, my dad that didn't love me, my adoptive father that didn't love me, my mom that didn't love me, the way that she treated me reminded me of that pain.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't get to judge that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get to judge what I did, what hurt to her or her.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: What we have to understand is you're asking the wrong question because it's entirely your responsibility, if you want to stay with someone, to lift them and support them and guide them and help them, because you don't have the porn problem.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have the cheating problem, you don't have the drug problem, the the lazy problem, the fucking like how let's use the lazy problem for a second.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: How many of you moms working 365 days a year?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: You got a headache, baby?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my eyes just hurt.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: We had a hard day today.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hard yeah, so baby.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: We have put a dog down today.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: My eyes are just burning because I cried, you know, normally.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a normal thing to do.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my little stuffy.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, thanks for asking.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, baby.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um lost it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Darn it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's your responsibility to lift them.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they're struggling with all those things and you don't have one of those kinds of problems and you're waiting for them to change, doesn't that make you a helpful fucking ally?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I'm so oh well, that's what I was doing.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was going with moms.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Moms working 360 days.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: 365 days a year, 24-7.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get to work sick, you get to work happy, you get to work unhealthy, you get to work tired, you get to work like like my wife here with headache and having to deal with the the dog we put down today, and that's all shitty.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that means you're obviously good at balancing a lot more.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you're upset at your husband who says he wants to change and do more around the house.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter the example, you're obviously better at managing it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So fuck.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Kath would even say that too.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Back when when we were really starting to actually used to teach us all the time still, whoever's the more emotionally intelligent person or the emotionally sound person in the moment needs to be the one responsible.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: They can't you always compromise more.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're most emotion more emotionally mature or emotionally intelligent, you will always compromise more.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it can shift.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: You might not, there might be situations where that will flip-flop.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But in general, that's that you congratulations.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you get to compromise more.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Don't expect your partner to compromise at the same level if they're not as emotionally mature and intelligent as you are.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the other last point you need to know on this topic is this if you're not going all in and supporting them and loving them, recognizing you have your own flaws, recognizing that you're also not perfect and you're part of what happened in your own life, okay, then you might as well just fucking leave.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't get to say, I I want to forgive you.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like Catherine had the gift of forgiveness, okay?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But she still got to work to support us moving forward.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's no good to say, I forgive you for the affair that you had, and then live through it day in and day out, blaming them for what they did to you instead of taking responsibility.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter what example we give, just fucking leave that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're a fucking liar.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Should we wait for your changes to be real?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do we know your changes are real?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how stupid it is.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you say I'm here and I want to move forward, but it's hard, no, you're now inserting the excuse.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: But they hurt me, your excuse.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have changes to make, like Catherine brought up in the beginning.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.