Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Coercive Control After Separation and Divorce Parties

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Coercive Control After Separation and Divorce Parties · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, the podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Warodri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: In today's episode of the podcast, I welcome Vanessa Medling as a guest.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Vanessa started her first business inspiring success in 2015, working with business owners, corporate leaders to help them develop themselves as strong leaders and influencers in the workplace.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Her focus was on helping them step out, step up to create success in a way that allowed them to lean into their strengths and see their own magnificence.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: After seven years in that business, Planets Aligned for her to create a partnership with her business partner, Nikki, where she was able to tap into her own superpowers as a business owner and help other business owners with her teams find a way to experience growth and sustainability without burning themselves out.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Ness is passionate about building wealth, particularly for women in business.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And over the past five years, she has devoured everything she could, books, courses, programs that help her understand more about wealth creation.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute honour for Ness to work with others to create financial stability for themselves.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll find her on her soapbox about focusing on profitability and business, breaking cycles of how we should be doing business, and how understanding what makes us dick is one of the most powerful life learnings we will ever have.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ness is also divorced, single mum to two young adults.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in today's episode, she shares on business wealth creation, yes, but also about her alternative to a divorce party.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have a feeling that you're going to really love this chat that I shared with Ness.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Ness, to the podcast.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is great to have you.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me to join you.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're very, very welcome.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about this chat, and I think that it's going to be in deep service to lots of people.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let's kick off.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about you, about your divorce, if you're comfortable to do that, about your business, what you do, how you move through the world?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I am a mum of two amazing young adults, um, a 21 and a 19-year-old, and uh a spoodle who is five and acts like she's five months.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they're sort of like my immediate world.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I run my own business.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have a business partner, and I have been in business with her for a couple of years and then in business for myself for about since 2015.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that must be eight years now.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh as a business coach and leadership coach.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a business I started when I long after my divorce, and my kids were, I think my son was around year seven, my daughter was in grade five.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a huge thing to leave a really safe, secure job, um, you know, paying a mortgage and looking after two kids every 50-50%, every week about.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, really proud that I got to um get that started.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are eight years later and still going strong.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's amazing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to a mad divorce, uh it's a long time ago now.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's um my kids were five and two and a half when I separated from my ex-husband.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I left him.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of the reason why I'm on this podcast today is that that's the divorce or the separation wasn't where it ended.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was uh quite unhappy in my relationship.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I chose to leave, um, my ex-husband wasn't very happy about that.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So he did spend many, many years um making life uncomfortable and um being uh just someone really difficult to deal with.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't it wasn't about, you know, most people I think most people I know can get to a place even if it's not amicable when you break up within a few years when time passes, you can still be, you know, just get on with life.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately for me, um, that wasn't the case.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it took until my daughter turned 18 before I was able to shut that door and put that behind me because there was no um coercive control anymore around finances to do with child support or anything like that.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it was um it was a really challenging time.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh if I don't know, if I had known what I knew when I left, I don't know, I would have had the courage to leave because um there was so much more to come, which was not nice.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to move through that post-separation let's call it what it is, abuse.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and it's the experience for sadly too many, particularly women, too many women experience it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wanted to I wanted you to share that because it's important to hear and um I also wanted just to speak to your actual success, you know, your financial success.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: There was a a post that you shared recently on LinkedIn that and I'm gonna quote it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I pulled the I pulled the quote out.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I walked away from my marriage in 2007 with less than$10,000 to my name and rebuilt my life.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to tell us a little bit about that, uh, you know, expand on what you shared in the in the LinkedIn post because I know that this is something that's really close to both of our hearts.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, I had chills again hearing that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I nearly I got a little bit teary when I read it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember back to that version of me, and um, that was so hard.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was really, really one of the hardest things I've ever gone through because um what it took a good, I don't know, two years to do the financial settlement.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having to go to court to get him kicked out of the family home so that I could actually sell it because he had it way overpriced.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't working, I was renting, I was paying the mortgage, I was paying the rent on my place.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: The year before, in some unfortunate circumstance, we got hit with a capital gains tax on a property we'd previously owned.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And because my babies were small, I had child support and family tax benefit in my name.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, on top of all of those expenses, I had um had to pay back all my family tax benefit, all the child care benefit.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had a tax debt, rent, um, mortgage, and I paid child support to him, even though we had 50-50 care.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was so stressful.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I borrowed money from my dad.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my outgoings were over$5,000 a month.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: My income was around two.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, and this um, this whole process of trying to get the property settlement complete and sell this big stupid house we built on the canal.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I was thinking when I agreed to that with a huge mortgage, um, was so stressful because he battled me the whole way.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because he knew that financial security was so important to me, and that's the bruise to press on, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that how my guilt around being a good mother, because I worked full-time and um financial.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so he drew it out and delayed it every turn, and you know, seriously, four times that year back into court to get the the um uh the price reduced so that we could find somebody to buy it.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then um at the final hour when we when we had a buyer, he phoned me and said, I'm um I'm gonna go back to the court and say I wasn't of sound mind when I signed that paperwork.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you will not sell this house.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was in a fetal position on the ground, just like, what now?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't keep living like this.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, I had an amazing solicitor.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we were able to go back to court and get his name taken off, um, being able to sign the um sale documents.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But it meant fighting at every opportunity, standing back up and going, this isn't okay, and having amazing people around me, you know, like the team of people there to support me, especially my solicitor, who actually my mum was his secretary.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was quite grateful for that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, and he was amazing.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that day when I'm on a in a fetal position on the floor rang my mum, my solicitor rang me on the Sunday, just going, it's gonna be okay.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, it's gonna be okay.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: He won't get away with it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, so to come from that, and I was at a point where I was, I actually don't care if I owe, I don't care if I owe money, I just want to, I just want to get out of here because I knew 100%, because I knew if I was in control of my own finances, I would be able to rebuild.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: But he he was not um wanting me to do that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really, really challenging time.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, gosh.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the key, isn't it?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Being I'm sorry to take you back there.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the key.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: The key message is if I'm in control of my own finances, I can rebuild, even if you walk away with nothing or you walk away with a debt.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now we don't want that for I don't want that for my clients, that's for sure.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But um control, empowered decisions around your own finances is priceless.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so from there, and I've always been good at managing my money.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when I met him, it's funny in hindsight, the choices you make.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: But when I met him, he was divorced already and had debt to his ex-partner.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I helped him, not financially, but I helped him budget.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I helped him to get all of that paid off.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we were so I wish I had paid more attention at pre-marriage counseling because our money, our money stories and our money beliefs were so completely polar opposite.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: He was a high risk taker.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was a low, you know, really, really um conservative.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of the choices he made throughout the marriage um were putting ourselves in, like we were in so much debt, it was ridiculous.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were taking money out of an overdraft to pay the mortgage, and then taking out the mortgage to pay the overdraft.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'll be, I remember coming home from work when my children were babies, he wasn't working, and I was working full uh, I think part-time, I can't remember, but uh I walked in the door and he said, Oh, I've just bought a um rubber duck for the boat.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, cost five grand.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, How many months of work has that been for me?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not buying coffee, I don't buy my lunch, I don't buy clothes, I'm trying to manage the household on one wage.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there was a lot of history of he he knew how deep that bruise went.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like talk about taking responsibility.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I certainly in the earlier days and right up until the end, I just didn't have the confidence to stand up to him because it was really difficult and you had to choose your fights.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so um coming back into that place where I felt like I could be back in control of how I saved my money and how I spent my money was so empowering.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, and so since then, I think a couple of years later, I I built my house.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where the kids and I left uh lived until they moved out of home.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were there for about 10 years and obviously started my business.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've now since started another business.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I bought an investment property a few years ago, and uh I've just um started working with a financial planner.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've invested in shares.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's just this empowerment around going out and having some amazing supportive women in my circle.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've sought out mentors and coaches and uh people to guide me through the share market, through money, you know, like Mel Brown's um financial adulting plan was amazing for me at the time I did it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I then got on to Julie Crockett and she was my buyer's agent, and I did her property investment course.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And just like that post was really a shout out to say there are so many women who are here to support other women through the darkest of times.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if I think back to that version of me lying on the floor, like literally in a fetal position crying, not knowing how I could keep going, not in that way, but keep going on financially.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not this just I didn't know what I could do.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: What happens if this is 12 more months of this?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, knowing that there were people, and and there definitely are, I think more.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm in those circles more nowadays, but there are people who can support you to start to not only um move through that phase and and get stronger yourself and be that support to say it doesn't matter what he's doing, you've made the right decision, keep going, keep going, keep going.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And also to be there to guide you and say, you know, for those who perhaps aren't as savvy with their own money, especially if their partner's taken control of that side of their relationship and looks after the money.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's about getting educated and having people around you who are smart and who are there to support you because I'm now 53 and um you know, setting up for retirement in 10 years, I was 37 when that relationship ended.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had 10 years head start on where I am now.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: We all say that, I know, but I know we all say that.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I had had the support that I've been able to find in the last five years, all those years ago, I you know, things can be different.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I am grateful for where I am.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and now that I no longer ever have to pay that man child support again, it's um it even feels more empowering because what that made me do as a self-employed person was restrict my income.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it annoyed the hell out of me that I would I had to pay him quite a lot of money, which because he pretended he had his own business too.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: He just um he took a lot of cash jobs and he took the kids on overseas holidays most years and you know, all of that kind of thing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like um, you know, I was trying to keep within the boundaries so that I could afford to have experiences with my children.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember um I think I've told you this story before, but when my son was, you know, it was not long after we'd moved into that first rental after the separation, he was in primary school and he came to me and he said, Mum, when I grow up, I want to have my own business and not work for somebody.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to have a business like dad.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, Oh, so you want to get into boats, do you?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, No, I just think that, you know, dad takes us on a holiday every year, and you never do anything with us.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And God, that made me angry because I'm going, it's my freaking money that's paying for those holidays because these kids weren't living on rice and beans and you know, wearing not wearing shoes because dad couldn't afford it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the injustice just boiled my, you know, insides.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was what he knew it would do.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why, you know, I say it went on for years, because um there was always the opportunity for him to find a bruise to push on and to and to go, oh well, I'm not gonna support you to earn more money in your work.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, I'm not gonna be flexible around changing care of the kids so you can go away overnight.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So think just everything.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Everything, yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so that final payment has gone through, and now there is no there is no upper limit.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're not self-imposing that upper limit on your earning capacity.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Another another step along the freedom ladder.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And just before we deep dive into the second part of this podcast episode, I want to remind you that there's always the opportunity to have a conversation with me, to book a free intro call.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode is bringing up things for you and you feel like you're ready to take the next step towards working one-on-one with me, there's a link in the show notes to book your free intro call and to discuss coaching options, and I would love to be able to support you.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the reason I really I mean that's all fabulous, and I thank you for sharing that, and it is going to be really important for listeners, and we will drop um links to the Mel Brown and Julie Crockett's stuff in the show notes.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, listeners, you can jump on and check that out.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the main reason I wanted to uh invite you on was to talk about how you how you celebrated um that sort of final moment.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it brings me so much joy to talk about this because I don't think many people are talking about, you know, the um celebration of the end of a divorce.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, two of my closest girlfriends have just uh gone through and finalized their divorces about two weeks apart in the last month.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked them each how they felt on the day.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was a mixed emotion.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't feel like celebrating it.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, sometimes people are like, yeah, let's go party and all this kind of stuff.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like, actually, I'm sad for what I've lost and I'm grieving for the part that wanted that relationship to work.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm grateful because I have my own life and things, you know, all of that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So acknowledging that at the time may not be the time to do this, but for me, when my daughter turned 18, it truly was the marker in the sand of never ever having to speak to this man or have anything to do with him ever again in my life because the kids are now adults.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to celebrate that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really interesting because when I fell on this, so we had my daughter's 18th on the weekend of her birthday, and then one week later I had my black and bling party.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the black and bling is the theme of everyone had to wear a little bit, little black dress and lots of bling, so lots of jewelry, headgear, all the things.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted it to be um, I didn't want it to be morbid, I didn't want it to be spiteful and mean.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was looking on uh online at divorce parties, there was so much horrible, nasty stuff on there.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, get a soccer ball and put his face on it and kick it around the room.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no, I'm with you.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not who I am, and it wasn't actually how I was feeling, I wasn't angry.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can talk about those stories now because I don't, you know, I've dealt with it, I've processed them, and they're part of my journey and part of my history.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they that they don't hit me emotionally like they used to.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that whole thing like we had been separated for I don't know, 15 years or something by then.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh but I wanted to mark it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what I landed on was um at this black and bling party, I wanted to write a eulogy.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the eulogy uh it took me about a week because I kept coming back and sort of like adding and changing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't about bad mouthing him or anything like that, but it really was my story of from the beginning, which was you know full of hope and and I remember, you know, writing about how he was a posty at the time.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: He had great legs and you know, all that kind of stuff, but he was really friendly, he loved chatting to the old.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there was the moment I wanted to honor that, you know, we did fall in love and we did have babies together and we did get married, it was an amazing day and all of that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have um I have on my computer um a folder that's titled Not All Bad, and in it the photos from our early days, you know, as a as a couple in love, early days with the kids.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's similar.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I wanted to wonder that was interesting.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to my girlfriend about this dilemma I had around what I was going to do on the night, and um she said, Oh, it's not the death of the relationship that happened years ago, it's the burial, and that's where the eulogy idea came from.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote out this eulogy, and uh and then I gathered some photos from the early days.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had a wedding photo, big wedding photo, and then a few other photos, sort of like up on this shrine, if you like, near the tally.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: The altar, the altar, um, to the marriage.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way the night played out, um, it was funny because my daughter wanted to stay, and I said it's not actually appropriate for you because um she doesn't have a great relationship with her dad.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: But even so, this was actually about not, I didn't think it would just she needed to be there to hear all this.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is my ending and celebration and and move through to the next phase.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So she took photos and took the dog, and then she had to nick off for the night.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was great.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: We drank champagne.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I got the most beautiful champagne.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I organized a caterer to bring food, it was really classy.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then we sat around and um I had 10 girlfriends there, so it My sister was there.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: My sister's obviously been there through the whole meeting, falling in love, wedding, kids, divorce, blah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: My girlfriend that I met three months after I got married.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So she also separated from her husband at the same time.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like chard alarm at her place on a Thursday night, drinking bottles of wine because there was a lot of wine drunk through that phase.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually stayed with her.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: So she's been through that mud with me.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then different, a couple of different groups of girlfriends who perhaps came along in later years, but still saw the impact that was happening in relation to what was going on.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then another friend who I've known since the boys were in kinder.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So these were girlfriends that were very special to me and all played a part on the journey.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I just truly believed that they could witness this because it's a bit kooky, right?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a bit of kooky.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got kookier, but I'll go into that in a tick.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we all sat around.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I read my eulogy.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then um my my girlfriend from ages ago and my um my sister spoke, and they just, you know, they didn't, again, it wasn't to be negative and nasty, but they were really emotional about their memory of that and how hard that was watching what I was going through.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then my other girlfriend read a poem out.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's brilliant at writing poems, so I'd love to touch on that before we finish up today.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we had this moment inside where we did this.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're in the middle of winter, so I've got a fire pit outside.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked all the ladies to take a photo with them on the way out to the fire pit.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted them to throw the photo in the fire, but not say a nasty thing, but say something positive and empowering and reinforcing, whatever they wanted to say.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But before that, I have you ever heard of the Pono Pono Pono?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Hawaiian forgiveness prayer, and it's just a have you shared it with me when you first shared this just four lines.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's um, please forgive me.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love you, thank you, I'm sorry.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you can say them in any order, um, whatever order it is, because I had done so much, you know, I'm a coach and and so I've learned so much about human behavior, and part of my journey is understanding holding anger for somebody else is is like holding hot coals in your hand and you're burning and nothing's happening to them.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't about I love you, as in I love him.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: The I love you was about me.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was about letting go, it was forgiving what had happened so that I could move on and be free.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we stood around a bit witchy, we stood around this open fire pit and we we read out that we probably chanted it a few times.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I say chant to make it sound more witchy, but it was just we just said it a few times as a group of ten.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then one by one, so I took the wedding photo and my eulogy and I threw it in the fire pit.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then each of my girlfriends threw it in the fire pit and made it made a statement.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so beautiful because it was cold, it was wintery, and we had sort of our coats on, and then we went inside, we drank champagne.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: I had the best playlist ever.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I had, am I ever going to see your face again?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are never ever getting back together, you're so vain.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just chose all these songs.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been putting this playlist together for a while.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so we danced and drank champagne and laughed, and it was so wonderful.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I woke up the next day and I was just lying in bed and I was looking through the photos.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a photo my daughter took of me before she left, and I look at that picture and I just went, I am never gonna settle again because I saw the strength that I in me.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just went, I don't know.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: This photo was just like I felt like I looked beautiful and strong and powerful.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I really connected to it and just yeah, I'm never gonna settle ever.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, goosebumps, goosebumps nest, goosey goosebumps.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was pretty um, it was pretty amazing.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And following that, well, funny story, uh, we posted a couple of posts on Facebook, but really nothing about the black and bling because we want people asking too many questions.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just I had a party, love my girlfriends, yay! And then I got one of my friends had said something, and then somebody else jumped in and went, I loved your playlist.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's really weird.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know this person.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then I clicked and realized it was my neighbor.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's friends with my friend on Facebook.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: She saw the picture.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my god, I wonder how much she heard.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I reckon she was over there going, Yeah, you go, girl.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Go so um, but following it, a number of my friends said to me just in one-on-one conversations, um, how special it was for them to be there to witness it, yeah, and how they also were thinking differently around how could I celebrate the next phase of life or the closed door of this one?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for my two girlfriends, they were there that night, the ones I referred to earlier.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not now, but at some point they're gonna be ready to do something with their tribe of women to be able to shut the door and move on.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so significant.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you, like literally, my daughter Zadith was so excited for her, of course, but also this build up to um just never having to deal with him again.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just amazing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really love, and I loved it when you shared this with me off off air, but I really love that it was the positive and empowering and celebratory um event rather than that really negative divorce party.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally, because I'm not that person.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm and I'm not angry anymore, I'm not hurt, I'm not, you know, and that that could be a good reason to put it off.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that if you are in that space at the time of divorce where you're you're feeling like I haven't dealt through my emotions, um, it might be better holding off for a little while.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, it's unique to everybody's circumstance, but for me, because it didn't end at the separation and divorce, it went on for years.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: It really felt significant to do it at that time, and to have those girlfriends around me.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess that's the thing, tying back to what we talked about earlier with the post I'd done on LinkedIn.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: There are like women are your biggest support group.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: My my daughter broke up with her first boyfriend recently, so she's devastated and thinks like the world's about to end.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all did on our first relationship.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I said to her, you know, be sure to put time and effort into your friendships because your girlfriends will be there forever, but our guys will come and go, and that's a reality of life.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, 100%.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have your your coven, your crew, start building it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um particularly if you think you're gonna leave, build, you know, foster this relationship.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: 100% like build well, I'd say two things build your coven of friends, and don't be the one that's always you know, like victim and and because no one wants to be around that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing is have your finances to a point where you can leave.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I said to my daughter when she moved in with her boyfriend.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Please, please, please have a separate account.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not that they shared money, but have an account somewhere.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Never ever let money be the reason why you can't leave.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for some people, I know I say that very privileged because um, or although our money was together, so I didn't have any separate account in order to leave.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, if there's a way that even going into a relationship, you you can really think about because I didn't just I just assume we got married and we pulled money.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't even stop to think maybe I could have my own money somewhere.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but that I think financially to show that that isn't the reason why you stay.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting that um I did always have an account.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: We we pulled money, but I always had an account in my name with a credit card attached.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where my wages went when I was working.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I didn't do that with the intention of I'm gonna leave.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was not.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, we married, I thought we were in for life, you know.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But having that was helpful in terms of knowing that I had I had a line of credit or had a credit score, you know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody who's listening who is in the situation where they don't have that, put it in place.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Get it now.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, you and I both whoops, I whacked I whacked the microphone.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Got excited.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I got excited speaking with my hands.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you and I both speaking from a position of privilege, yes.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for some people, it's not quite so cut and dried as that, but yeah, little steps, little baby steps to create your own financial independence.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'd say to that also is there are people out there nowadays that are there to support that happen.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's the financial counsellors that you can access, there's, you know, groups, um, lots of different money groups that you know.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure if somebody connected with you, you would have somebody in your network that is able to help them navigate through what it would look like for me to set something up for myself.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I believe, even from what I've heard, that the banks have uh areas within them now that that are really there to support women, especially women who um are in horrible circumstances of domestic violence and so on, but um to support them.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: The banks are fantastic.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, just last week I had a client um have a wonderful experience at Westpac.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: She actually went into the branch, she explained the situation.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's been coercive control in the past, um, though, and they were absolutely fabulous.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely go to your bank.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Commonwealth Bank are good too.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who aren't in Australia, reach out to your own banks.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, here in the did you want to share the poem that your friend wrote?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would really love to, and and I do that in the context of um just how powerful and and amazing friendships can be, uh, especially for women who have shared experiences.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think by mid-age, uh quite often you are meeting people who have um who are divorced or have had breakups in in their lives and hard times.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I would say is um some of my friendships are only two, three years old.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it's never, you're never too old to start again.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think I made a really beautiful group of friends, four of us, when my kids were little, sort of like when they were in primary school, and then only just a few years ago with another group of girlfriends who I met through COVID.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: We went overseas to New York together this year.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So don't underestimate if you're worried that you know, if I leave my partner, I'm gonna lose my friends.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can make new friends, and you'll be amazed at how I mean how you come across people and then you click, and then that happens.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just in the context of how beautiful friendships can be.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is um uh I'd love to share this that my girlfriend wrote for me.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, it's not on here.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just oh yeah, here it is.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now can't promise I won't cry towards the end.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's called fly and be free.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, so I suppose I need you, say that again, Ness.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Fly and Be Free.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Once upon a time, a young in and innocent bride, a man with whom she promised to adore and abide.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: He knelt on one knee and offered the ring, and with love and intimacy came two healthy offspring.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't too long before his true colours shone through, no fool to hang around, and so off she flew.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: To start again and enter a new life, now as a single woman and no longer a wife.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: But alas, it was no easy feat.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: After all, she was dealing with an ex named Pete.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: She raised those healthy offspring into two beautiful and happy adults, all whilst bravely dealing with the drama and ongoing insults.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Staying strong with determination and grit, with dignity and grace, she endured a lot of shit.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, finally, this relationship is dead and buried, minus the grade of grief.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's all take a deep breath and breathe out with a sigh of relief.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: I declare here and now that this is it is no more.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: She is free of all ties, finally, that's for sure.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: A new beginning with freedom and ability to do, say, have, be, with infinite possibility.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even when we grow old and begin to fray and crack, no matter what, we will always have your back.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: A treasure chest of friends who love and care, always with whom tears, laughter, and wine to share.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is your time, your time to shine.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: As it is the way it should be.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is just fine.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Glowing in the light, how stunning she is.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: What a tribute to you and your power.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to this next chapter.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we're both crying.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank you to my girlfriend, Chrissy, who wrote that poem for me.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chrissy, and what a gift.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a gift to you, but you've just gifted it to all of us too.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, thank you, and thanks, Chrissy.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Final question that I ask all my podcast guests is if you could share a song, and maybe it's from your black and bling playlist, I don't know, but if you could share a song to support women navigating the messy shitstorm, what would that song be?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: When you know, when I thought about this uh and I went to my black and bling playlist, the song, I don't even know why I needed to look, I will survive, Gloria Gainor.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that one is the best karaoke song you can sing.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And two, the message in that song is so powerful and I love it.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, you know, that in any relationship, because that's not being my only relationship that's you know started and ended.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's that whole belief that no matter what, I will be okay.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we all will, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: We will survive, even in the thick of it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: We think we can't.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: We absolutely will, and not only survive, but will thrive.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a beautiful song to like get up and dance to, sing along at a karaoke bar to, and also embrace the message of it, I will survive.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will drop links to where people can connect with you and how they can find you in the show notes.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um, listeners, you can track Ness down.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you so much for sharing your story and your glimpse into what the next chapter can look like for anybody who is still in the trenches or is considering leaving, that there is, yeah, there is capacity to not only survive but thrive.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me and letting me share.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at ReflectCoaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.