Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #181: Eggflation, Bird Flu, and Backyard Chickens: Joel Salatin’s Guide to Raising Your Own Flock

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Episode #181: Eggflation, Bird Flu, and Backyard Chickens: Joel Salatin’s Guide to Raising Your Own Flock · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McKella, and I'm here with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And today we have a rather interesting episode for you because we're going to talk about eggflation, bird flu, and then Joel's going to walk us through how to start your own backyard flock because that's going to be our solution to this current problem that our nation and the world is facing.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to talk about that crisis that's hitting the breakfast tables across the country and in the world.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: It is the bird flu and it's ramping up the egg shortages and the skyrocketing prices.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the bird flu outbreak is still raging.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting worse.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: As of March of 2024, it's been reported to have spread to dairy cows across 16 states, infecting 845 herds.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's been one human fatality that occurred in Louisiana, but that person also had multiple underlying health conditions.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: In the last 30 days alone, it's been estimated that 22.73 million birds or so have been infected in the lower 48 states.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's wiped out 79 commercial flocks, 42 backyard flocks.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this is studying Joel, a startling figure here, that since the outbreak began in January of 2022, the US has lost somewhere around 148 million birds, most of them being euthanized in an effort to contain the virus.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And this has sparked this huge debate about these drastic measures.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are these necessary?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: What does this mean for the future of poultry and dairy farmers?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what I can tell you is that for consumers in the immediate, it means two things shortages and record high prices.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So grocery stores in some areas are now rationing eggs.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Prices are at an all-time high.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: In the Midwest, a dozen large eggs now cost an average of$7.08, which is seven times higher than just two years ago.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: In New York City, Whole Foods is charging as much as$11.99 per dozen of cage-free eggs.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know in my area, I walked into Whole Foods and the organic eggs are at$10 a dozen.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Restaurants are also filling the squeeze.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Waffle House has added a 50 cents per egg surcharge across all menus.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's not enough proof that eggs are now a hot commodity, there was even an egg heist.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Have you heard about this, Joel?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: The egg heist in Pennsylvania.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, on February 1st, 100,000 organic eggs worth over$40,000 were stolen from a Pete and Gary's organics distribution trailer.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that amazing?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought I'd see the day where people are stealing eggs because they're such a hot commodity.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And now, meanwhile, the bird flu is not slowing down.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: The U.S.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: has now reported its first ever case of a new strain of bird flu, H5N9.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a new one.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: The common strain is H5N1.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've reported H5N9.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is in poultry, specifically at a duck farm in California.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying that this H5N9 strain is actually a mixture of H5N1, H7N9, and H9N2.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's rarer, it's a rarer strain than this common H5N1.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they're saying that these viruses can actually combine and reassemble their genetic material to form these new mutant strains.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And this this um proposed combination that has resulted in this newer strain, this H5N9, was um basically reported by researchers in China who studied samples that were isolated from the bird markets in 2015.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what take that with a grain of salt, you know, what you think that means.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: The scientists are not sure if this H9N2 strain, or sorry, H5N9 strain can infect humans.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what's the risk at this point?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the H5N1 strain was also detected on that same duck farm in California.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that means as of December 2nd, 119,000 birds have been euthanized from that farm.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: There was a quote from uh Michael Ulsterholm, he's the director of Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, and I quote, we've never seen a global spread of avian influenza virus like this.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much H5N1 in migrating waterfowl.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they're saying that there's 40 million migratory aquatic waterfowl in North America, and that the they bring this virus, and this virus has plenty of hosts because of all these migrating birds, and they poop and they spread this disease.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, according to um Alsterholm, he said we're seeing more and more of these outbreaks in poultry operations because the virus is common in the environment and it's blowing around.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: He said that's different from anything that we've ever seen before.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And experts are warning that their outbreaks could continue for the foreseeable future.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does that mean?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you want a steady supply of affordable, high-quality eggs, the best solution is now going to be to raise your own backyard flock.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we have Joel, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Our farmer and regenerative agriculture expert.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Joel is going to walk us through how to start your own backyard flock, what are the pitfalls to look out for, and how you could do it the right way.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But first, Joel, I want to get your opinion as a renowned farmer.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is do you agree with what Ulsterholm is saying?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is this how we're getting this bird flu?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to know what's your opinion on the bird flu.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And is this true that these migratory aquatic waterfowl are carrying these viruses and they're pooping everywhere and it's it's blowing around in the environment and it's making all these birds sick?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's because at this point I'm thinking, I don't even know what to believe anymore.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to know what you think.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, uh, it's a great, great intro, uh Cena.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And wow, to unpack it, let's let's uh unpack it a piece at a time.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I think it's important to understand that the the fraternity that is documenting, studying, and giving advice on bird flu, the fraternity that's doing that, is the same fraternity that oversaw the response, the study, and quote unquote the science on COVID.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same, it's the same font of information.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same spout.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So so my first my first thought is whatever you believe Anthony Fauci's scientific basis was, that's how much credibility or credence you need to put on whatever the Orthodox narrative is on this.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's my that's my first thing.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I'm I'm not here to what you know impugn, debate, or anything.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying that your level of faith, your level of faith in Fauci is the same level of faith that you should have in this because it's coming from the same organization, the same, whatever, uh, you know, labs, the this the same thinking, the same mentality, the same everything.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and frankly, the same whatever, uh, you know, financial interests and protection interests and you know, agenda interests, okay.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things tend to tend to cloud um these kind of things.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that I I I like I thought it was interesting when you talked about the 22.3 million birds have been infected, actually, they haven't been infected, they've been exterminated.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the the records they're keeping, they don't actually know how many birds actually have this.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: All they know is if you have a if you have a Tyson chicken house with 20,000 chickens in it and one bird, and they can find it in one bird, all 22,000 chickens get killed immediately.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even if there's only one bird, even if 19,999 chickens don't have it in that house, if one does, you exterminate them all.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes into the data point.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: They don't actually test every chicken.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh all they're doing is they're they're they're just counting the the ones they kill.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually don't know how many birds um have this.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: We actually don't, we actually don't know.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we do know, we do know in the field that um many, if not most, birds who are uh subjected to these strains never get sick, just like COVID.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: We know that in COVID, most people who encountered the COVID, whatever it was, never got sick.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some people did, and some people died, okay.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: But most of the people who died had some sort of, again, a comorbidity, an underlying problem.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: They were diabetic, they were obese, they were, you know, uh uh COPD, whatever.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they had they had other they had uh underlying issues.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so the the fact that he said, you know, it's common in the environment and blowing around, um, and that it's mutating.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not so I'm gonna assume that they're speaking truth for a minute.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that it that it's everywhere, it's ubiquitous in the environment, and that it's mutating this rapidly, it should give us pause to figure out a better way to deal with it than to try to come up with some sort of a vaccine.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because by the time you come up with a vaccine, let's assume that vaccines work.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we're making a lot of assumptions here, but let's assume that the vaccine works.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And at this rate, Joel, just give them little chicken masks, that'll work, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have them all uh wear masks.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: But where I'm going is that just like COVID, the way to fight uh the way to deal with this is building up an immune system.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, ultimately, that is the protection.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: The immune system is not uh even I heard a fascinating uh functional medicine doctor recently do a lecture, and he said, even vaccines don't bring you immunity from outside.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: The whole goal of a vaccine is to stimulate your internal immune system.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, even with vaccines, all immunity comes from inside, not outside.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: No matter of what persuasion you are.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you if you um start down that path, then you say, well, you know, how do we how do we actually build the immune system in these chickens, uh in the in this poultry?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I can assure you, I I appreciated you talking about the duck farm.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever uh most people have never been in a factory duck farm.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in one, I've only been in one in my lifetime.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um if you think a factory chicken house is bad, a factory duck farm is like a factory chicken house times three, because ducks, their manure is is three times as uh wet, three times as wet as chicken, and their webbed feet um are not just little claws like a chicken.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So when you combine wet manure with webbed feet, essentially you have you have um animals living and uh and walking around with snowshoes on their own poop.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's and and and and they they love water.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh there's a lot of water um spillage, drippage.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you add water, runny poop, and webbed feet.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you, a factory duck farm is is um yeah, it's something to behold and and something to smell.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So so it it it it it doesn't surprise me that this um whatever three this three strain combination uh has uh developed in a in a duck operation, not a chicken operation.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Different, you know, different kind of animal, different kind of feet, different kind of poop, a lot of differences here uh between between ducks and and the chickens.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, these 40 million migrating aquatic waterfowl, you know, I I find it just isn't it interesting that um that we're not finding a bunch of dead migratory waterfowl around.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, where where are the heaps of migratory waterfowl that are carrying this?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're not.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So so I I want us to just think this is a new thought.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: See, I just had it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just want us to think that the the number of chickens let's assume again for a minute, no, these are big assumptions.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's assume for a minute that the migratory waterfowl uh whatever culprit narrative is accurate.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the truckloads of migratory waterfowl?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Where where are the dead ones?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the geese?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the mallard ducks?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the um wood ducks, you know, around ponds that are dead?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have we have 20 ponds on our place.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Canada geese, mallards, uh wood ducks.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: We got all sorts of of um waterfowl here that come in and go.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a dead one, never seen a dead one, okay?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'm sure some do die.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, certainly they do, but um uh you know, you just you just don't see them.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would I would have people think I would have people thinking that the number of domestic fowl that is actually infected is similar to the number of wildfowl that's actually infected.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if you if you think about it that way, we're not seeing you know truckloads of these 40 million migrating waterfowl dead.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're not seeing truckloads of those dead.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we didn't do anything domestically, how many of these would actually die from bird flu?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's where I'm going with this.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now it is true that migratory aquatic waterfowl have a much better life than a Tyson factory chicken house chicken.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I I'm glad to you know uh to appreciate that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, um a better life than a lot of backyard flocks that are just on dirt, uh, that aren't allowed to migrate, that aren't allowed to move, that are kept up in a in a filthy, stinky, smelly coop.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it doesn't matter that it's you know a you know 20,000 rather than you know 10.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um 10 chickens, if they're kept pinned up tight and um and not handled correctly, can be just as filthy as a house full of 20,000 uh chickens.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing about scale that inherently makes it makes makes it clean, hygienic, sanitary, or anything like that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and we'll we'll we'll dig into that just a little bit later.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um but I I think it's important to to just you know take a deep breath, back off of this, and look at the reason of it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think you and I are are pretty much in agreement, for example, that in COVID, had nothing been done, had nobody even known about it, and the government not even touched the whole thing, had nothing been done, we probably wouldn't have lost any more people than we did.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, all this this New York, you know, uh thing, you know, uh Cuomo, you know, moving moving the nursing home people, I mean, all that kind of thing that was done, uh, and the the loneliness and the exclusion and the the uh telling you know half the country that you're not essential.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, what did that do?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: We know the psychosomatic, you know, your your the way you feel about yourself, and we we told half the country your job is not essential.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what does that do to your self-worth and your affirmation?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm getting down a rabbit hole here, but but um you know, if if we had not, if we had not even put our finger on the COVID situation, you can disagree, but I I'm convinced that that we would not have had any more COVID deaths if it had not been if the government had not done a thing about it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting because as you were speaking about the wildfowl, you know, and and the whole situation with maybe they're infected just as much or they're carrying this, you know, virus.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: My that was my thought is when you go looking for something, you're gonna find something, you know, especially with the number of PCR cycles they're using.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Something's going to show up.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna ask you if you know this.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do they know?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, I'm assuming there must be a sick bird in a flock, like one that's presenting with symptoms, right, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then they test it, and then oh, that one's positive for this strain of bird flu.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they assume that it's that bird flu that's causing that bird to be sick.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they're using the PCR test, which we've talked about on this program and is of is is of dubious quality.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can we just say that?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the PCR test.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and so and and as as we uh as you so eloquently described it, one of the best explanations I've ever heard, or the best one, what was that the the PCR test is you can almost think of it as a as a microscope, and you go to you know, 20 power, 30 power, 50 power, 100 power, um, and and and that's what the cycles are.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: The cycles are the power.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so if this guy is saying, I mean, I this is an amazing statement.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard it until you just read it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's common in the environment and blowing around.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Cena, if if the we've talked about this, that that all of us, if you could take a some sort of a you know, this this um electron microscope picture of all of us, we would all look like pig pen in the peanuts comic strip uh um with all this blowing around.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So so if if it's actually ubiquitous in the environment and blowing around, well, if you if you magnify enough, you're gonna find detritus, viral detritus somewhere um on me, on you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you'll you'll find it somewhere.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, once I got down to that quote, I was like, this is fear-mongering.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is what they do to basically push the agenda that they're trying to push, is they make us all afraid that, oh, it might get my flack, it might get me, it might get my dog.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, and I know I've said this before, but I want to give another example.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we've talked about um like Streptococcus, you know, strep.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That bacteria is on it, it is ubiquitous.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's on many healthy people.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's on the in their bodies, their mouth, their nose, the throat, the skin, their intestines.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: But not everybody shows what they call the symptoms from strep.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't think a lot of people know this about E.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: coli, because we think of E.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: coli as this thing in food that makes us sick and whatever.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, they say that there's some forms of E.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: coli that are going to cause the infection.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: lead to diarrhea and vomiting and cramping.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: But even if you look in the scientific literature, it will tell you most quote unquote forms of E.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: coli are harmless.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, they help you with digestion, they produce vitamins and they protect you against other quote unquote harmful germs.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm bringing this up in this conversation because it really is lending credence to the fact that we have this whole germ theory wrong.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: That we have it wrong because there's some people and even the um journal Virology, a reputable journal of in the field of virology or the study of viruses, that is asking the question do these viruses even exist?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you know that is deemed misinformation and whatnot, but um you know I'm happy to I'll link some studies to this show in the show description that talk about that that are these actually exosomes or or are they viruses?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: We can't tell the difference.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the technology to tell the difference.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't make more sense to me that these are exosomes and if people are interested we can go in on a whole podcast about that.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: But but that's what is making me think is that they might maybe it's possible Joel I think it's possible.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear what you think if there's a sick bird and they test it using too many cycles of PCR and it shows up as this type of common bird flu and they blame it on that it could just be that those are fragments of exosomes because the bird is sick from something else and what they're picking up is a certain type of exosome and they're mistaking it as a virus.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you think?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: How many death certificates got signed during COVID where the cause of death was COVID but it wasn't actually COVID.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was something else because there was a uh an obscene uh economic incentive to to put covet on somebody's either death certificate or hospital admission or whatever it was um I mean this this was this was an an obscene um uh economic incentive during that and so so you mentioned the term and I don't want to get all conspiratorial here but agenda so what what could possibly be you know I I look I just assume that that most people are trying to do the right thing most um but what could what could be an agenda I mean if if this thing is a what could be the agenda here what what could possibly be the agenda if if if there is one so I don't know that there is an agenda but I know there is buzz about an agenda.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So part of me uh you know part of me is thinking uh these people in these bureaucratic positions are probably thinking that they are doing what needs to be done to protect everybody.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it is possible that they're just doing this out of um you know this this real desire to follow through with what they are tasked to do.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not saying that they're not doing that but we we we call we call this out of an abundance of caution yes out of an out of an abundance of caution yes that's the operative phrase yes which is the opposite of what is happening with the like the chemicals in our food supply right that is yeah yeah talk about the ultimate hypocrisy out of the abundance of caution uh one bird uh on a magnified PCR is six so we're gonna kill 2000 and and on the other hand ah who cares about monosodium glutamate who cares about high who cares about red dye 29 you know yes um who cares about glyphosate who cares about oh that that's a great point zena that's that's yeah yeah so there's hypocrisy there we we we call that scientific and intellectual schizophrenia yes i love that that's a kind way of saying it yes yes so so that's point one why such the dramatic difference okay point two is they are actively working on another mRNA vaccine for bird flu so that's already in the works right we did not learn the lesson from the first time around there I just watched this last night I think it might have been on Times website can't but don't quote me on that but literally they're already working on this other vaccine so there's profit right follow the money for that part there's profit and I've also heard grumblings about uh people thinking that this is another push for to getting us off animal products to getting us toward the lab meat the cricket flower you know like you will eat bugs you will eat this lab grown meat there and there's um a money trail there as well I do not know what because I don't know these people who are in these positions so I do not know the motivation but like I said I do see the hypocrisy on both sides.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that there are a lot of people in these bureaucratic positions that are just trying to do the what they think is the right thing and avoid an outbreak.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not to say there's someone up with higher with someone up the food chain with little strings trying to do something I don't know that's speculation but certainly there's grumbling going around yeah well one of the one of the things that you um you learn in journalism uh when I was a newspaper reporter sometimes the the buzz was um was not accurate but where there was smoke there was a fire so you know we get a call whistleblower whatever and a lot of times they were they were you know may maybe it wasn't as wasn't exactly the way they described as it turned out but I found they were always at least in the ballpark that they they actually they actually knew something they they might they might not be hitting a home run but they were at least um in in the batter's box and they were in the game as opposed to the average American who wasn't even in the ballpark um that that that's my point and so so here we are um so let's so I I I think I think uh the first thing is to not be um to to not be afraid of it for you and then not be afraid of it if you'd like to you know raise some of your own chickens so so if you I mean with eggs going to where they are and what's going on um don't be afraid to say okay if there's ever been a time for me to have a a backyard flock of chickens it's now uh and we can have five six seven chickens so a couple things uh let me let me just are we ready to kind of jump into this if we we kind of explored the bird flu situation I mean the fact is there's a lot we don't know and and um and and there's a lot that we certainly Cena you and I there's a lot about the orthodox narrative the way it's coming out the way it's being presented that we're we're dubious about the about the the narrative that's being presented so yeah I think that is I mean I agree with you a hundred percent and I would add to it that I don't even think fundamentally the same way that they do about quote unquote germs.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not thrilled with their solution like you said I think we should really be shifting our focus away from that path that they're going on and toward just building immunity a robust microbiome of all living things.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I'm excited about where you're going to take us next because you can now take control of your own food supply and not be dependent on them.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that Joel's going to teach us how to raise our own flocks is going to help the those flocks be healthy and have a robust immune system and microbiome.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right and so in in shameless promotion let me just say I wrote a book Polyface Micro that actually has one whole chapter devoted to how to have chickens and rabbits in a Manhattan apartment.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Listen um so so let let's do a let's do a couple of uh interesting just to think through a chicken a laying chicken has a lifespan uh a productive lifespan of about three years in a in a you know in a domestic home flock so that they don't they don't last real long they don't live as long as a cat or a dog or anything like that uh because they are because remember laying eggs is productive all right um you know very few animals this is one of the differences between animals and humans very few animals live healthily past their productive years in nature most animals once they quit whatever ovulating and having babies they're pretty much you know done humans are the ultimate exception to that you know and and uh I mean you know most women have their best life after childbearing years why because they're you know they they're they're an energizer bunny you know they they they don't have all these um you know responsibilities and I mean think about all the things I mean Mary Kay you know started Mary Kay after she was like 50.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you can just go down a line of the 50 year old women that that began uh literally empire businesses after you know after childbearing years so uh it so in humans it actually frees us up a lot for those you know those uh those later years in nature that's not the case so I'm making a point that if there's one that that that when we talk about underlying comorbidities and immune system a chicken I know you're gonna love your chickens if you've got two three four five you're gonna name them uh the kids are gonna you know make pets out of them but if you keep them more than three years they're going to become senescent um you know they're going to become very subjective to chicken diseases just like a very old elderly pretty uh person so if you're going to do chickens and I have never I have never started this way before but I've just I've just really been touched recently by the number of people who I've met that have you know these five six seven backyard chickens they've named them all say well how old well this one's eight years old was she laying any eggs no he's not laying any eggs and you can see she's got all scaly on her legs and and I've butchered a lot of these old you know we we pro when a chicken gets three years old we we we butcher them put them in a stew pot and and the the the amount of weird stuff inside these like benign tumors um uh all sorts of weird anyway wait at the age of three or you're saying if they're older than three if if if they're older than that but but even at the age of three even at the age of three you'll see a lot more things that you won't see in a young a young broiler for example you know when we when we process when we do a chicken for meat so there's egg layers and there's meat birds and and those two are kind of you know separate um and and so when you go to the egg layer um you know and you go to the older bird yes uh there's all sorts of weird stuff in there that you don't see in a young you know a young meat bird of either sex whether it's a a pullet which is a female or a cockerel which is a rooster um uh a young bird will be you know uh uh very very healthy inside in the intestines and the liver and all that whereas a bird that's three years old you know um and if they go on to five or six years old then they have uh more than half of them I can tell you having dressed a lot of these chickens in my life you go over five years and 75% of the chickens will have all sorts of of strange things inside um tumors um um just just the way the the way the internal uh fat lays in the I don't get too you know weird on you but anyway um we talk we here when we're doing these you know at on the processing line we talk about these old women have all sorts of weird stuff inside them you know uh that that that I'm sorry that that's just processing humor okay when when you're when you're butchering chickens all butchers have we call it uh butcher humor you know like like Daniel has there's two rules one is keep your mouth shut and number two is if you feel something on your lip don't lick it you know when you're okay so so we we have all these you know weird uh butchery jokes okay and I for for our urban folks that are all ishing out now well I'm sorry but uh anyway here we are got butchery jokes so so number one I know you're gonna love your chickens you're gonna name them that's fine but but commit to when they hit about three years old they need to be cycled out and and I'm convinced I don't know this but from what I've seen these you mentioned Cena that there were 40 where were we 46 um backyard flocks yeah 42 backyard flocks where they found uh bird flu I will bet you based on my experience I will bet you that those flocks were either dirty or old because too many too many small flockers they don't want to butcher their chickens you know and so they keep them five six seven eight years old and they they just get old and tottery and and and then they get you know they get subject to they don't have as good immune system because they're just very they're geriatric.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want a geriatric flock of chickens all right um this isn't this isn't an old folks home for chickens all right so so um so we get that out of the way first so how do you how do you start uh so you can obviously you know get little chicks um but if you're getting a backyard flock you would normally get you would normally go to somebody that sells ready to lay pull it's so a chicken starts laying at about five months and um somewhere about about 20 weeks is when a chicken will normally begin laying that's when they that's when they uh get into um maturity and so typically what folks will do is find somebody um that sells what are called ready to lay pullets so these are pullets that are you know over 16 17 weeks old a couple three weeks away from laying or they're just starting to lay right at you know 20 weeks and you can get you can get a a a chicken that's up there that that far away now once you have those now you have can I first ask you how do you find the good pullets like where would I go do you get a is there someplace online that's reputable that I go to or like how do I actually find that because like how do you know they're a good a good source like I wouldn't want to have one that you know comes from a one of these gross right you know farms that's unhealthy raising these unhealthy pullets.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I do that part?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well one of the nice things about uh about regular pullets is they can't be mailed so generally you're gonna go somewhere and pick them up and so um you know you you're you're gonna see the farm you're gonna see the flock uh I mean for folks in for folks in Virginia we sell a lot of these uh we sell hundreds and hundreds of backyard you know little fives and sixties and seventies you know for for backyard flocks of chickens um and and and we we we hatch our own we hatch our own uh uh birds we've been doing that for about 10 years but there there are others i mean there are people in Pennsylvania there there are people virtually in every state so so not in every neighborhood okay so this is a this is a very you know uh uh a nascent um you know a nascent thing here um but there there are people I mean you can check Craigslist you can check American Pastured Poultry Producers Association that's appa uh American Pastured Poultry Producers Association um they often have a you know you can you can uh put out a thing on there uh you know put out a plea looking for for this um so there there are people that just realize just like anything else that you start that is um kind of under the radar there is a flourishing under the radar uh you know poultry industry that that you don't read about in the news media okay uh and and so so when you just just like you know when you decide to homeschool for example um you know it doesn't make the news very much but you go to a homeschool convention and you suddenly realize oh my goodness you know there's an entire you know uh uh uh you know below the radar industry here in in in homeschooling same thing is true with backyard chickens uh there's an entire sub you know under the radar industry here um it's it's it's legal it's not you know it's not uh it's not illegal fortunately like you know raw milk and and fentanyl but uh but but you know it it it does exist so you you're just you're just going to kind of you're going to kind of gently and and and slide into this and you'll be surprised well I know a guy over there I know a guy over there you know it there's yeah it it but but it's it's a relational thing you know it's not on the it's not the ads aren't going to pop up on your um on your news feed on your smartphone okay okay all right and then what what season so like what time of year would you be getting these um these lane pullets yeah well any any time of year I mean you can you get them year round it's not like a spring thing yeah you no no you can get them year round uh you can get them anytime now a chicken is gonna lay better in the spring than they do in the winter and so typically they're more available in the you know in the early summer and spring than they are any other time of year but um uh I mean we sit we sell them we sell them pretty much year round in fact I think we just last week set our first set our first um 1200 eggs for for this season oh wow for and they'll they'll hatch in you know about 20 days they'll hatch and we'll have our first batch oh my gosh so next year when I come out to polyface then in the summer for our event I can bring some home with me in the car absolutely you certainly you certainly could you certainly could um yeah yeah and we we sell in in in fact in fact um I'm hoping uh I don't want to jump the gun here too much but I'm hoping that this year we will begin selling fertile eggs that you can incubate and hatch yourself you know if you want to do that and um that would be such a fun like homeschool project.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah oh it's it's yeah and these little home incubators you know that do like you know where you just have a a few um are are it yeah it's fantastic there are a few things as captivating as watching chicks peck out of their egg i mean it's really it's it's quite a this it's like a metamorphosis it's like a metamorphosis you know it's it's quite it's quite amazing that would really that would like basically seal the deal that that little chick coming out of the egg would be my kid's pet forever like they would not give that one up at three years old like yeah yeah yeah well um well that might be when you have to step in and and uh explain the situation we'll just say the chicken's ready to go to Joel's farm now and live there like you know we we Cena we've had that we've we've had People there there's you know, there are businesses now.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know of three of them in the country that that do rent a chicken.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh where where you you you you come and you rent a chicken for the season, and then when you're done with the chicken, you bring it back.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and yeah, we've done that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: We've done that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll yeah, we'll we'll take them back.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, a lot of people don't want to, yeah, they don't want to butcher them and and yeah, I would have a hard time that it it will be I would give it back to you as a gift.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've babysat the chicken for three years, now you can have it back.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's right, that's right.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: But but okay, yeah, let me just say for our for our listeners, Cena, that this is you know, when you talk about the the the the food system or you know, the overall cultural food system, what we're talking about here is just think if if if this kind of um what you know uh chicken what uh backyard scale chicken commerce, if this was so ubiquitous in the culture that uh that uh that uh it it was as common as you know soccer teams or as common as as anything, you know, you you you could just as McDonald's.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, yeah, as common as McDonald's.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just imagine if this were really and so what we're talking about here is rebuilding.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it used to be this way, it used to be, you know, people would, hey, I've got this rooster, and or somebody comes over, hey man, I think that rooster would really work with my I'll trade your roosters, you know.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so these two guys would trade roosters, and and I mean that that's that's what went on uh all the time, and uh, and we've we've lost, you know.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've so we're we're trying to rebuild from scratch a um you know a participatory food system.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're trying to build that from scratch now, and so so few things, listen, if you want to see me get happy, it's somebody who's bought eggs from us for years, and suddenly they come and say, Um I I want to get five chickens instead.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna quit buying eggs from you, but I want five chickens and I'm gonna raise my own.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, few things make me happier than that because I know now, you know, they're gonna they're gonna join in an incredibly visceral participatory way.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: This you know, the this network, this this uh true food secure network.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so we can we can start with these chickens.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then the the big question then becomes housing.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we gonna keep these chickens?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we gonna have them?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: So let me just tell you chickens are the most delectable dinner for everything out there that goes bump in the night.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So everything at two o'clock in the morning that goes bump in the night loves chicken dinner.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean raccoons, foxes, uh possums, um, obviously, you know, uh dogs, um, you know, uh skunks, I mean just just everything that you wouldn't think.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: They they love chicken dinners.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so you've gotta have a secure place for these.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I mean secure, I mean I mean secure.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so on a s in general, I am not a fan of uh quote unquote free-range chickens at flocks under 200.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So on a on a home-scale flock, unless you're out there babysitting with them, and so so you know, if if if you're gonna be home, you're working maybe in the flower beds or the garden or something, yeah, the chickens can run around, you know, let them out, okay?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, keep them secure, or you're gonna be really distraught when something eats them.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this thing needs to be, and and and all these predators I just mentioned, now not foxes, but um, you know, uh we have coyotes.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Raccoons, yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Coyotes don't climb, they dig, but most of the predators, I mean minks and weasels and pine martens and raccoons, uh possums, uh, skunks not so much, but a lot of the a lot of the predators can climb.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: So so when I say um secure, that means they have to have a top too.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just say, well, you know, I've got a I've got a six-foot wire.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, no, it's got to have a top as well, or or something can climb up and and get in.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have um one of my friends lives just about 20 minutes from us up further on the mountains, and we have little bears up there.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she sent a picture of the bear actually tore the top of you know of their supposed secure enclosure, tore it open, climbed in there, got the chickens, and came out.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And also, because they were usually like chain link fence, the bear reached in through the fence and pulled the chicken out.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, so it's serious stuff to secure your chickens.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, it is serious stuff.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and that that neighbor's delightful little uh Fifi poodle dog, uh at it when they when that little beautiful little Fifi poodle dog encounters your chicken, they become a raving wolf.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I don't I don't care how sweet and nice and cuddly and you know uh nuzzly they are.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um dog canines are predators and something clicks in their head when they see uh a chicken and they go nuts over it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say secure, yeah, and and if you you know, chances are if you live in a normal urban setting, you won't be dealing with bears generally.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, but but yeah, a bear, a bear can be a pretty big deal.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one way we have a lot of bears here.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: We live up, you know, next to the mountain, out nowhere.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we have a lot of bear issues here, and we've been able to uh handle bears with two strands of electric fence.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you just you just you just put a perimeter, put a perimeter around, put an energizer on that puppy, and uh and and get a good energizer.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get an energizer from tractor supply, those are all junk.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh get one from Gallagher or you know, premier uh you know uh premier fencing supplies, um Ken Cove, uh Twin uh Pell, Twin Mountain, you know, these are all these are all great, great.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: When you're dealing with electric fence, the one thing you want to do is put your money in the energizer.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and so you can put an electric electric uh electric fence, you know, perimeter.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: You you can offset it, like if you've got your coop, um, you know, get your insulators offset at six inches, maybe two or three wires around, starting about, you know, seven inches above the ground, and then come up, you know, put it, put another one on at about, you know, 18 inches, another one on at about uh three feet.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that way if something starts to climb up, you know, it's gonna encounter the um you know the wire.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you can even you can even ground it, instead of grounding it to the ground, ground it to the the wire, whatever wire netting you have around the chickens.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're you're positive on the wires and negative to the to the fence.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so when the animal starts to climb and leaves the ground, they don't have to be touching the ground to get the shock.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they and and when when they start climbing up your you know your your wire enclosure, um, and they hit that electric fence, you you can get these offset insulators.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're about you know six inches offset, and that'll catch just about everything.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you like that bugger up, uh you know, put seven, eight thousand, even ten thousand volts on there with a good energizer.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we've had we we've even um uh energized the entire eggmobile.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had a uh twice we've had bears come and try to rip off.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, bears are they're strong, you know, and they're smart, and try to actually rip off, actually rip off the entire you know, metal, metal siding from the eggmobiles.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, since the eggmobile is on rubber tires, it's not grounded.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we can put an energizer up there, hook the hot to the to the eggmobile, you know, the whole thing, okay.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when that bear comes up and puts his paw on that side of that uh eggmobile, um he's not gonna do that a second time.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and they literally, literally leave and don't come back.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty you know, elect electric, a lot can be done with uh with a simple electric fencing kind of setup that that would be it'd be hard to have a physical thing strong enough, like to build a physical coop strong enough to withstand a bear is almost impossible because I mean they can rip boards, they bite boards, they I mean, bears are strong, you know, and they can tear stuff up.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: So a psychological war is a lot better, which is a lower electric fence is electric fence is psychological war, and uh, and you can you can offer that.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're almost out of time, but um wow, this is yeah, this is good stuff, I hope, uh, for folks to to to to realize how how effective elect electric fence can be.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um it is it's pretty effective if you put a if you get a good hot spark on it and get a fault finder, get a voltage you know, tester from the electric fence company so you can actually know how much is on it.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, obviously you could touch it yourself, but um that's I don't recommend that as a way to uh as a way to check it.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: So so quickly, the then then the the the the I think the final question then is do we have a stationary coop or do we move them around?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um and obviously um there are reasons for both.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a very small place, like if you have just a a house and lot, all right, I don't recommend moving them around in the yard because it's gonna you're gonna have a bunch of poop wherever you move them, and the kids are gonna track all the poop in the house, and that's no fun.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have if you have less than, I'm gonna say, um an acre, you probably want a stationary coop.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you can put them up close to the house, and the key there is deep bedding.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Deep bedding.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um something, you know, bedding that's at least uh goodness, uh you know, 16 inches deep so that the chickens can scratch and basically be on a compost pile.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I go into this in great detail in my book, Polyface Micro.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to belabor it here, and I'm not trying to sell books, I'm just trying to be efficient here at at plowing old ground.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the the key here is to actually have the bedding deep enough the chickens can can aerate it and grow bugs and things in that in that um deep.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: We call it a carbonaceous diaper.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and you can bring them all your kitchen scraps.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Chickens will eat anything.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they will eat you if you go in and lie down long enough.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: That should give you pause, you know.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and and and uh even your pet chicken will eventually peck your eyes out if you go in and lie there.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, so so yeah, they are omnivores, all right.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so you can give the chickens, you know, meat scraps, vegetable scraps, peelings.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: They tend to not eat banana, citrus peelings very well, but they'll pick everything off but the pigment.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: So let them let them have that, you know.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you have a deep bedding, they'll they'll scratch that into the bedding and it'll decompose.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll have this wonderful, you know, compost for your you know, houseplants or your garden or whatever, you know, uh later on.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a so while I'm known as the pastured poultry, you know, guru, there are in in micro spots, uh micro places, there are there are a lot of reasons to have a stationary coop, but it does have to have this deep, this deep bedding underneath.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So make your box, you know, make your box so you can have this nice deep bedding.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: The other, of course, is a movable, portable shelter.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so you know, there, if you have layers, you know, you're gonna want something on the neighborhood of six square feet per bird.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if you've got five chickens, you want something, you know, at least at least um, you know, 30, 30 square feet.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's you know, that's a five by six.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um the key to portable shelters of whatever stripe you want to, and there are tons of these.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna, you know, definitively answer everything about a portable shelter.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's tons of them.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the key is make it light, make it light.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you make it heavy, you're not gonna want to move it.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not gonna want to move it, you're gonna leave it too long, and then their chickens are gonna be in their poop and you're gonna you're gonna destroy the grass because it's just sitting there too long.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and the manure that ought to be a blessing will be toxic because it's too heavy a load at one time.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna kill the grass.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're gonna have weeds, it's not gonna be pretty.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, so um uh about the smallest portable coop you'd ever want to make would be something about five feet by six feet.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's really small.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and but you know, very you know, you can make this thing, the whole thing can weigh just a few pounds, and uh, and even a child can move it around.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and you can buy them, you can build them, you can you know, do whatever you want to.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I don't recommend portable shelters until you get kind of over certainly over half an acre, and I would appreciate, you know, I would move more toward an acre.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you can actually, you know, give them give them room and the kids aren't tracking the manure into the house all the time.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got a if you've got a thousand square foot backyard, you know, you're gonna be moving those chickens around and and the kids are gonna go out and play and they're gonna track it all in the house.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not good.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a time for stationary, time for mobile.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: And for the stationary, what size do you recommend?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like what, like the other one you said for the mobile, you said at least try to get um six square feet per bird.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a recommended size per bird for the stationary?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in general, I would say something in the neighborhood of if they're gonna be in there all the time, uh, just double it to 10 square feet.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, so 10 square feet per bird.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then also, like you said, if you're home, you can let them out, right?
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let them free range, just make sure they get back in.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you critters come.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you're running uh, you know, either a stationary or a portable, um, you know, if you're home and you're out working around, yeah, you could let them out.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and and they'll go around, they'll pick up all the ticks and uh ticks and things like that, and you know, grasshoppers and crickets and um enjoy that, but and and then they'll go in, you know, go in at night.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that sounds awesome.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm bummed that we're out of time because I have a lot more questions, but well, but I think that's great.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for the listeners, send in your questions that you have, you know, on having your own backyard chicken flock or any other homesteading question you have.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I would like to do another episode with following up on more of these questions, including my own.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, okay.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe maybe we can do that next, uh Cena.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: We can we can uh do another one because we want to talk about the importance of of moving, just the importance of moving animals as we come into the our our summer season here.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh maybe we can incorporate some of those questions in in an upcoming episode.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: So so question for today.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um Have you ever had a backyard flock of chickens?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't, what are you scared of?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's your hurdle?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's your hurdle to not have to not have a flock of backyard chickens?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and it can be anything from space to fear of burn flu to you know uh to time, whatever.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, yeah, share your share your um share your fear, share your concern of why uh and and certainly you know we don't we don't think anybody's in sin if they don't have backyard chickens, but um I think Cena, you and I are we're seeing a um uh whatever, an opportunity here culturally to you know to touch people with this that maybe you know would not have thought about it before.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was like like at COVID, you know, spring of spring of 2020, our our our farm store here was full of people that I talked to who said a month ago, if you'd have said I'd ever come to a farm to buy food, I'd have said you were absolutely nuts, and here I am, you know, because this is where the food.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I I think I think maybe we we see that that opportunity here um with the eggs, we can either all get depressed.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the neat things, look, if you get ready to lay pulllets, you you can have your backyard flock of chickens a week from now.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you know, this isn't like some of the bigger things, you know, uh a beef or a milk cow or you know, some of the other homestead things that we think of.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the reasons I I I love chickens so much is because they are they're small, they're child-friendly.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh even at worst, you know, they really can't hurt you and they can scratch you, but they're not gonna they're not gonna knock you down and and and really hurt you like like a bigger animal.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and they're just really conducive to small spaces and very and quick turnaround.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, you you can you can you can be in, you can be in very, very quickly.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh a lot to recommend, a lot to recommend chickens.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're a good chicken salesman.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like because yeah, I'm like, I have never had of um, I've never raised chickens of any kind, but you know, now that we're on our homestead and all these events are happening in our you know food space, now I'm like, okay, I think I'm ready to try this.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, hence all my many questions.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so let's get to all those questions too in the next episode.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we thank everybody for joining us.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, of course, thank you, Joel, for all your wisdom and your expertise.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward to discussing more homesteading topics really soon.