Latest / The Daily Writer / Improving Your Business Systems, Mindset, and Operations | Johnna Lacey

Transcript

Improving Your Business Systems, Mindset, and Operations | Johnna Lacey · The Daily Writer

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an author and a ghostwriter, and this is a show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: You've probably heard the phrase before, are you working in your business or are you working on your business?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this question refers to the difference between being an employee who does the work of your business versus being the owner who is maximizing productivity, profits, and success.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well when you're a solo business owner, however, you wear both hats.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be hard to see the difference between those two roles, especially if you don't come from a business background and you might feel swamped by all the things that you have to get done every single day.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm really excited about this conversation that I get to have with my special guest today, who is Jana Lacey.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: She is a longtime writer and advocate of better systems in our businesses.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you just a bit about Jana.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's the CEO and the head writer and editor of JM Lacey Communications, which focuses on writing and brand storytelling, training, and coaching.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Built on empathy and the desire to eliminate frustration for business owners, leaders, and nonprofits, Jana seeks ways to simplify what has been unnecessarily complicated using proven systems to achieve results.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Jana has written professionally for more than 20 years, but been writing creatively for 40 years.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's also a poet and is working on a novel and some essays.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Jonna also enjoys macro photography, gardening, cooking, exploring museums, and all things related to the arts.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can connect with her through her website, which is jmlacey.com.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's jmlacey-la-c e y dot com.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well in today's conversation, here are a few things that Jana and I talk about.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to just frame these as questions.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: What are solopreneurs, particularly writers, consultants, and coaches doing to prevent business growth?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: What does our mindset have to do with operating our business?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why should we, as creators, separate ourselves from our business?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to think about how we do things versus what we do?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it important to have standards, company policies, benchmarks, SOPs, and objectives if you're just a solo business owner?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, why should you never tackle projects over which you have no control?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you are a writer who runs a business, and by the way, if you have any money flowing through your writing, if you sell books or if you do client work, you do have a business, and you probably relate to all these questions that I just mentioned.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And John is going to help us to work through these and improve our systems, mindset, and operations.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to share this conversation with you.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So here is my chat with the amazing John O'Lacy.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: John and welcome to the podcast.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've known each other for a little while now, but I'm excited to have you as a guest today.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for coming on.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you, Kent.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited about this.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we are here today to talk about stuff related to, I guess if I were going to put it in a nutshell, it is really working on your business and not just in your business.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: One of the hardest parts, I think, for all of us who are creatively minded, you know, we sort of interact with the world and engage with the world as artists, you know, in a way.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: We love to write, we love to create.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: One of the hardest things for us, I think, is the business side of things, which is really one of the big points of this whole profitable writer podcast and membership group and other kinds of things.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to start out with a bit of your story.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, share with us, if you would, Jana, your backstory of how you got into freelance writing and building a business and where that's led you up to uh today.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's kind of a big question, but that's okay.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Give it give your journey to us in kind of a nutshell so listeners can can understand where you've come from with this.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, absolutely.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ken, I have been a self-employed writer since 2008.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's amazing.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of time, yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a long time to be self-employed.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I've done a lot.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have created newsletters, that that's been my biggest thing with clients.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've done uh client biographies, marketing content, advertisements, articles, you name it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked uh working as a freelancer, I would grab whatever I could, uh, trying to get work in clients because that's kind of what we do when we start out.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and eventually, over time, I burned out.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, I think in all honesty, I haven't fully recovered from that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I knew, you know, I knew I really needed to make some changes to my business structure.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had to look at what I wanted to do and how.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I see that with I've actually restructured my business a few times.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this one in particular where that I did a few months ago, this was a huge change for me.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that was as we're coming out of the COVID era, as I as I call it, although I I guess we're kind of in, we're gonna be in that era for a long time.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But all of us have changed, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've all been impacted by that.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And but I also realize everyone's changed psychologically.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just there's just that aspect of it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that people, including myself, we really need someone who understands all we're going through and how we can help them.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, I'm talking about now we're really overwhelmed, we're really overworked.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to look at my business of how did I want to structure this?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I built my business on empathy because I've been there and frankly, I still am.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I do understand what people are going through.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And empathy is also, what are you going to do about it?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's what I had to look at.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's good.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: In in my life, uh, like most everybody else, things changed.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in my personal and professional life, my responsibilities increased.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now I'm trying to navigate what I want to do with my business and my work.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was all over the place.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting desperate.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people who would go to my website said, you know, I have no idea what you do because you're my website was all over the place.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I do this and I do this.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was just, it was too much.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like having puzzle pieces in front of you, and you have no idea how to put them together.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my emotions were taking over, stress was ruling my life.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love to say that I have a stress-free life, but that's just not true.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: But at least I recognized that this, these were the problems that I was having.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, how was I going to take control of that?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I restructured my business a few months ago, first of all, I could only focus on restructuring the business part-time.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I so I needed a simple approach for my own business, but I wanted the people to that worked with me to also have a simple approach with my programs.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where uh you and you'll see it on my the homepage of my website where I talk about simplifying what has been unnecessarily complicated.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many people and so many things out there saying you need to do this and you need to do that and follow this and do this workshop and do this program.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was complicating things that I realized you don't you don't need to do it that way.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was I was copying too many people and trying to figure out what's gonna work best for me.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had to scale back and say, you know what?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't work for me.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't work for my business.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to cut the cord on a lot of things.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so because I've gone through all of that myself, um, that's kind of what happened, is is I I thought, well, how am I gonna help other people to do this?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will say this.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I do read a lot of business books, as I know you do, Kent.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think most of us in business, we do, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: We we see this this book has been recommended to do better marketing and do better sales and things like that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we read them.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: None of them have been ever ever have been helpful to me at all because people are writing books that they do not know my business.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know my structure.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they don't know how I operate.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I will say this.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I will recommend a book.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being paid to say this.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I was because it's an awesome book.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was recommended to me, Michael E.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Gerber's The E Myth Revisited.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for those who haven't read it, you've read it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Have you read it or I've read part of it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when I was prepping for this conversation, I was revisiting your notes that you sent, uh which were great, by the way.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like every podcaster's dream, every podcast host dream when like the guest sends some really detailed thoughts about here's where the conversation could go, here's some great questions.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, wow, you did all the work for me.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but yeah, that that's a great book.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there, and that's my point too, is making everyone else's life a whole lot simpler.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I try to do, because we need that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And but it was interesting, just just kind of in brief with that, because and and for those who don't know, e standing for entrepreneur.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the the entrepreneur myth revisited, if you will.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also for me, the e myth contractor, which was very important because that suited my consultancy a little bit better.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got nuggets from both of them.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and what was different this time was that the Gerber's uh book is focused on how to run your business versus what you do.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to change my mindset and thinking about the business itself versus my skills, and that's what this book helped me to do.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the thinking in these books is is about separating what you do as a tradesperson, okay, as a writer, as an artist or employee of your own business, to thinking about running the business itself.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to separate the two.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Running a business as an entrepreneur is different than focusing on your craft.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if I have to say that there's a book that changed my thinking, that would be the book.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's really gosh, I I actually while you were talking, I wrote down five or six different quick things.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's how how do we stay and first of all, how do we get profitable and how do we stay profitable in terms of running a sustainable business?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think it's interesting, uh, like one of the things that you that you put in your notes that you sent was, and I'm I'd have to look and see how you said it exactly, but it struck me because it was so true.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's you you mentioned something like there's a million writers out there, and what really differentiates us from people who do the same things that we do is not just the actual work, it's how you run your business.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that is the thing that distinguishes you from the next person, offering the exact same service because there's tons of people who do writing and tons of really good writers out there.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now we find ourselves competing with AI and other kinds of things.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that become that has become even more important.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: That human element of how we connect with others and how we actually run our business.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad that this is something you're talking about with people because it is such an important factor.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, it is, and it really is mindset.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody had said that to me before.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it really it just it struck me that I just really wasn't focused.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is because I was so focused on what do I do as a writer?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um I really had to step back and look at the business.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so the mindset was just, it was so important.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's mental, we know that it's psychological, it affects the decisions that we make toward our vision and objectives.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to look at ourselves as business owners and entrepreneurs first and writers second, and which can be difficult, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're artists, you know, and it's so hard.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but if you're trying to run a profitable business, then it's the business that comes first.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you brought this up.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you've mentioned this before in some of your previous podcasts, and I'm so glad you did because because there are so many writers, and as professional writers, the bottom line is we can do anything, right?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are people will come to us and say, Hey, can you write this?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we've never written it before, but we're we're saying, of course we can.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we might have new research, right?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, of course we can do it because we're writers.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so what you're trying to do though is separating yourself from other writers, not by your skill, but how you're operating your business.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: People hire us because they like us and they want to work with us.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you think about it this way.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I'm gonna ruffle feathers.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: My feathers were ruffled when I heard this a few years ago, but now it makes sense.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you've alluded to this before in a different tone, but I'm gonna be point blank.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Writers are a dime a dozen.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can be replaced.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even leaving AI out of the equation, um, because that's a totally different subject altogether as a writer, but so what makes us different though is our operations.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we keep this in mind, it helps us understand that what can't be duplicated is how we run our business.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So our our business, our operations represent us more than our skills.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so think about it this way as an example.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You would love this too, as a ghostwriter.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say one of your clients um has this friend, this friend read your client's book that you ghost wrote for him.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he loves it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, How can I, you know, what did what was it like working with Kent?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so your client is going to talk about how professional you are, how reliable you are.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how, you know, he will talk, of course, about your writing and maybe how you challenged him and got him to think deeper about certain things, but it's all about how great it was to work with you.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, what a great personality you have and all of that.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, because really the book is your clients.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, exactly.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously you helped shape it, but it's really his story and it's his.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he's not really gonna talk about that aspect.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna talk about how it was to work with you, and because that's how a lot of us get clients is through referrals.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so our referrals are talking about us.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so how we work with people, how we treat our clients, our professionalism, our methods, our ethics, those are the things that are going to get us the business.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: They might come to us initially because we can write, and they've heard that, but they're gonna hire us because they like us.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: One of the most interesting things about ghostwriting to me has been I've been doing this for a few years full-time now.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of different people.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, including um, I would say a small handful of people who are I would say either very well known in their field or uh really wealthy because they're a very successful business person, or there there's something something else about them that makes them like at the top of their game, whatever that is.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been interesting that the vast majority of the time um there is an there's a confidence there, but there's also still an insecurity.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that has been surprising to me to discover that even though somebody can still be very, very successful in whatever their thing is, there's oftentimes still that insecurity.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the things that we can do as writers is it's again, it's not just about the skill of the writing or about the craft, it's about making that person feel affirmed and valued and not stupid because they don't know anything about book publishing or ghostwriting or drafting.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got one client right now who's very six he's a very successful wealth manager.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And but I can tell because this process is really new to him, um, it feels it kind of feels like you're the new kid on the playground a little bit.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so part of I think part of our job is to reassure people that we work with and make them feel smart and successful and valued and you know and then we still have to do the work and produce, but you know, like you said, that there's a million writers out there, and it's it's not like even if we're a really good writer that we're totally unique because we can always be replaced.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing that can be replaced is this human connection and this human element that really shows up and is a good business person.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I love your thoughts on that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, you know, we really there's just such a separation because we have such a passion with with our writing.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we have to look at how, you know, how we're putting that together, how we're doing it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what what kind of makes it interesting that um you know thinking about thinking about the challenges that we have as as writers, and because I've been doing this a long time, as I mentioned, um that we we tend to focus more uh on our trade skills, on our writing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We focus on what we do, um, which you know is great, but we don't focus enough on how we're doing it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So because we go into business for ourselves, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're um as a freelancer, solopreneur, whatever you want to call it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we're you know, we're we're focused on how we're running the business on our own um and the craft itself.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: What happens though when we're not careful is that we work more than ever as an employee of our own business, which is sort of which is sad and funny at the same time, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've all been there.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because we we we quit our jobs going, I'm gonna work for myself.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and we are the worst, we have the worst boss ever.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what if your boss is terrible and doesn't know how to run a company?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's me.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the boss is running me into the ground.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's that's where it can get a you know a bit convoluted is we're so focused on the the task, the client work and the writing and and that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not we're not looking at the the business itself.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: We just we need clients.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so because we're not focused on how we're doing it and just what we're doing, I think it it just really affects the growth of the business.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's why we need to separate the craft from from the business itself.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it and that takes an art in itself and it takes a lot of work.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I when I restructured a few months ago, I'm still in the thick of it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still putting operations manuals together and things like that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not something you feel like you have to do overnight or you have to get it all done in a week.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna take time uh to do, but you have to make sure that you're spending on a weekly basis time on your business and putting all that together.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm glad you mentioned operations manuals.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I wanted to ask about.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: For those of us who are uh self-employed, um, maybe we don't have full-time team members, it's pretty much us.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is the value of because I'm I always try to think of objections that a listener to this show might have.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can already sort of in my head hear somebody saying, Well, if I'm just self-employed and it's just me, what's the point of putting together a manual?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that seems like a total waste of time because I know how I do things.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the truth is that you might hire a contractor at some point.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or God forbid, what if something happens to you and somebody has to log into your your bank account?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or how did how would somebody access your client material?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's all kinds of of things that could happen where somebody else would need to step in and log into accounts or have access to things or take over a process if we hire it out.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So what kind of thoughts can you share with us about the importance of operating manuals or uh sometimes called SOPs in the industry?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh standarding, stand standard rating?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's not even a word, is it?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Stand standard, standard operating procedures.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Standard operating procedures, yes, folks.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a professional communicator.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um how why should we do that?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And how would we go about getting started with that?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's excellent.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad you brought that up.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Only recently, um, so I'm in another group of consultants too, where something was brought up.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a question that this consultant had about a challenge that she was having with a client.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And in my head, immediately I'm like, I thought, if you had your company policies in place, this would not be a problem.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you had your operating procedures, this would not be a problem.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I jumped on and, you know, and and brought that out, which is interesting because a lot of other consultants are saying, you know, I've been doing this for 30 years and I've never needed.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's fine.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's fine.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: If that's how you operate your business, I'm not here to tell you you have to do it this way.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: But here are the advantages.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first of all, something to think about.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And again, as a as a writer, you're probably not thinking in this direction.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to kind of absorb it for a few days before it made sense.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Remember this is that our ourselves and our skills are not the product of our business.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Our business is the product.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the focus needs to be.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: We we need to set up our business.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Business, using systems, using the standard standard operating procedures, the SOPs, that's easier to say, uh, the manuals, the way you run your business, how you run your business.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And here's why there's two reasons.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, think about let's just say 10 years down the road, if you want to sell your business.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And now I can hear it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am, I'm the writer.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I am the business.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not selling it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just pause for a moment and think about that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying you're not that you are going to sell your business.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you'll do this for the next 50 years.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But set your business up as if you were.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason the way you do that, because you're selling not yourself.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're not selling your writing, you're selling the operations, the systems.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to buy something tangible from you, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're buying your operations because they either want to duplicate them or and probably make them even better for their organization.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have something tangible in place.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing to think about.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And also, if you were to hire employees, and you might think, well, I'm not going to hire employees, but I'll outsource.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your employees or people you outsource, maybe you want to bring on other coaches, for example, or other writers, they're still going to need training.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're still going to need employee manuals and SOPs because you're showing them the operations of your business in black and white.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You need everyone to be unified in operating the business as you have it designed.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your subcontract subcontractors have to exemplify your business values and your operations.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hear stories, and in fact, the uh EMIF sub uh the emith contractor was very interesting because it did focus on contracting.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've heard stories uh from the contracting industry.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: The writing industry could be the same thing.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're hiring subcontractors, are they doing things their way?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they doing things the way you need them done?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because your business name is at stake.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's something that you need to think about.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: You may never hire employees, you may never sell your business, but if you think of your business that way, then you're going to realize growth and you're going to see success.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing to do to do that, and again, like I said, this is going to take time.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to do this overnight.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Think of yourself 10 years down the road, maybe your future self, and work backwards.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what you see.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to get there?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And start and start working backwards and building those goals and those and those mini goals for those goals of how you're going to reach that future self.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's focusing on your business.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So always remember when you're putting all this stuff together, um, you are an employee of your business.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you need employee manuals, you need company policies, and you need SOPs, at least for your sake.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll and the reason is because those are now your backbone.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, which is interesting and bringing me back to that conversation that I was telling you about when I jumped in, because this person really had no recourse.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this was something, well, we discussed this, but did you give your client the information so they could see it in black and white that this is your company policy?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you have company policies, even your own, for your own business, you're not going to break your own policy.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is what's going to come in handy during client conversations because there's no wiggle room in the policies.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Your policies include your values, for example.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean just listing your values.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do those values specifically mean to you and to your business?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Define them and show how you're going to fulfill them.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to give that to your client so that they can see that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, show them what you will or will not tolerate.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and we're not talking about the actual project either.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's something different.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is actually your company itself.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you have business objectives, that helps you focus on what you need to do to reach them, the goals that you're setting for yourself.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's propelling you forward as opposed to slowing you down and costing you money.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the things that you need to think about.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with employee manuals, um, being a really good source of reference as you step into each role yourself.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: So think about this.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: You are the writer in your business.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you are doing all your marketing, you're doing your sales, your development, your accounting, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what if you want to outsource those or hire employees for those?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So as you step into those roles, start building your employee manuals and map out how uh how the roles have to be done, what's going to be involved, how the tasks are carried out, and how all of that care uh ties into your business purpose.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in the long run, that's not only going to benefit you, but any employee you hire for that role.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been some cases where you might get this incredible job that suddenly you realize, I need more help, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do it all yourself.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're, but if you're ready, if you're ready to hire employees because of that, now you have the manuals all set.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're you're scrambling trying to figure out what the tasks are gonna be, how you're gonna hire people.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have all of that in place.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the other thing too is when you have all of your manuals in place to run your business, you're not giving your client legs.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um, when your client understands how you run your business, your client is going to understand who you are.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to know upfront what is and what is not acceptable.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you're trying to do, is you're trying to show your professionalism and that you have control over your business.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: But first I want to take a second to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you might have written an awesome book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a master editor.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's why my friend Karen Hunsinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason is that a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, gifts in tone and voice, overuse of particular words and phrases, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I worked with Karen many times, and trust me, she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Visit Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit today.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's KarenHunsinger.com to get your free sample edit today.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the conversation.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's really a critical element with this, is particularly when you're working with uh people who are very successful or they're high net worth or they're maybe celebrities or they're very accomplished in their field.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: They want to know that they're working with somebody who is equally as professional.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And w for example, one of the things that I really appreciate about the place where we this is kind of a weird example, the place where we take our uh cars to to have them repaired is uh it's a chain.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: But they're really, really pro.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you walk in and it's not some, you know, like dirty waiting area like it is most places.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's in fact you would never know you were in a auto repair place.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: They have this really cool lobby.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: The the people are like super they're always not like dressed up like a suit and tie, but you know, they have these really clean uniforms, really clean cut people working there.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: They explain what everything that they're doing, and they also when you take your vehicle in for an estimate, they send you a text with a link to this document that's we recommend all these things.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Here's pictures, do you want to do this, you know, or this or not this or whatever?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's cool because it's very, very professional.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: They are a little bit more expensive, it seems to me, than other comparable places, but I don't mind because they really give you a feeling like, hey, we are total pros.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: We know what we're doing, they're super friendly, they're really fast.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can do the same thing for the people that we're working with, that makes a huge difference.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, one of um the packet that I send to clients um after our conversations is it includes my capability statement, my philosophy statement, which also has my company policies, and the purpose statement.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they have that in front of them too.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they have everything outlined and it just, but just always remember that those things are are they're mainly for you, but they're your backbone, you know, because not all of us are great with confrontation or having certain conversations, but now you have it in writing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I do business.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, and so that that's gonna help you really in the long run, I think.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also just the idea of putting these together, of going through the action and the discipline of working through these kinds of things and and really making decisions about what is your policy of this or that?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is um when you send an invoice, how many days are you gonna give the person to pay, or whatever the situation is.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just makes you feel more like a pro.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you ultimately never hire anybody else, just the fact that you have those things may it kind of lifts you up as a business owner and as a leader, I think.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just by virtue of the idea that you have thought through these, you're doing things that any business owner would do.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're feeling kind of insecure about yourself as a business person, I think these kinds of things really help.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um and again, when you when as you're outlining your values, they're for you, right?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because what, for example, your value might be respect.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my values, but it means something different to me versus somebody else.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I outline that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: What does that exactly mean?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's helpful for you too, because if you have, especially when it comes to ethics, uh, there's there are lines that you're just not going to cross.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then um, just just like with any policy, if those are broken, guess what?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: You fire your client, you know, or you know, if you have employees, you know, that's that it so those are the things that are gonna help you to stay on track um and and not and not very often um, you know, and really maintain control of your business.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I you know, I mentioned that briefly earlier about not giving your client legs.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's important.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've been there.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is something I had to learn the hard way.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you own your business, you as the owner of your business, you have to maintain control of your business.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And having your systems in place, having these procedures, that's how you're going to do it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you grab at whatever lands on your desk without any method whatsoever, your client has control of your business.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: If the if your client senses any hesitation, if your tone of voice is kind of questioning because you're a little lost over the project, they're gonna run with that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they're gonna tell you what needs to be done, how they want it done.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna dictate to you how they want you to do things.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna run your business.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what keeps you in control though is how you do them, how you run your business.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know everybody's been hearing those different words, the how and the what.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not about what you do, but it's how you run your business, how your systems help you achieve your outcomes.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and it's true, when we get into the groove of something like ghostwriting, for example, you've done several of those.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You you know how you're gonna do that project moving forward.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're also gonna outline how you're gonna do a particular project.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have that in writing for yourself.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna create a script if you need to.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And especially because when you hire, if you hire other writers, bring them on to help you out.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you want them to do it your way.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that um illustration earlier about the um about the garage uh and and taking in your car for maintenance, the the chain, how do how the chains work well is because of the systems they have in place.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what you need to remember.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and even that mindset for you for not letting your client take control, same thing with who you outsource to.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you hire subcontractors, be very careful in um making sure that you're you obviously you want to hire people that they have somewhat knowledge of what they're doing, but you really want to hire people that you can train.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's why McDonald's hires high schoolers.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're well, typically they're trying they're trainable, but that's gonna be a debate.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, you want to hire people that you can train and how you operate your business because it is your name and your reputation.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So those are those are the things that you need to think about in running your business.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it takes time, but start sitting down and and mapping these things out for yourself.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it'll and it'll come.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: It'll come.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe a good rule of thumb is and and one that I try to follow is whenever somebody, whenever I hear the same question more than once, I assume other people are gonna have the same question.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just kind of write out some answers to that.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I make that available to clients or or to other people, depending on what it is.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of the things that um that I had noticed after I'd done a few ghostwriting projects is that around the middle of the project there is there is kind there's typically a lag in enthusiasm.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you start out, it's very exciting it's it's like it's like dating or any other kinds of thing that starts out really exciting, and then after a while you get to know each other.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for the client, I think that that newness and that excitement of the project wears off.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get into the middle of it where you as the writer are really crafting the book, but they're still involved in it because you're doing calls and you're gathering stories or they're revising and editing drafts, which is important.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're not a writer, which they probably are not, because that's why they hired you, then going through that editing process feels like a real slog to them, like it does to almost anybody.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I noticed that a lot of times that was the case, and so I put together this document uh called the five stages of the ghostwriting process.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And basically I outline the idea of hey, you know, stage one is we're really excited, stage two, we're making great progress, but stage three is where you're wondering if you should have done this book to begin with, and you're you're gonna consider quitting, and you will wonder if this was worth the time and the effort and the expense and all that.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: But know that that's totally natural.
• 37:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just like anybody who gets in the middle of a complicated, messy project.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: So once you see that that's coming, you know to prepare for it and know that that's completely normal.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually been really helpful to several of my clients because they weren't aware of that dynamic.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's interesting too that you know, that's something really to think about that when you have a project that you're used to doing over and over again, it's good for us to show our clients this is this is the procedure, this is how we do it.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what a doctor does.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: I exactly.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really helps them.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it kind of puts their mind at ease.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if they work with different people over the years and and everybody's so different that they just they really want to know what the procedure is and what's expected of them.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think, you know, it really helps us too, because our craft is very emotional, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very important point.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: We do what we do, we write because we love it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we have created a business on that passion, and it's wonderful.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: But as we know, emotions cloud our judgment.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if we don't separate what we do from the business operations, we're then our business is being affected.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're making decisions now on that passionate emotional aspect of it as the craftsperson, as opposed to we're the CEO or the president of our company.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can't completely separate them because we're writers and we have a writing business.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so you can you you can look at your business is built on that passion, but you have to run it strategically.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to run it with reachable goals.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you need to make money, you need to have a business mindset.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to look at your budget, your marketing plans, all that stuff.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So having that outline is really cool too, because then you are taking the emotion out of it.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're just you're showing your client, because in your head you're doing that happy dance, like, yes, I have a client and I'm gonna do this work and I'm so excited.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, now you have it in writing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we do it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're focused on it, then the emotions, the emotions are totally totally taken out of it.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that helps a lot.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard if if you are if you did not come from a business background, uh, maybe you, you know, like me, you come from a church and ministry background or an educational background.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like business is the furthest thing away from your mind.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really a challenge to get into that mindset if you're not already there.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it it takes some time.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think we've got to give ourselves we have to give ourselves some grace.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And realize it's a journey.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if you went from working in an office or teaching like I did teaching at a college, where you go somewhere every day and your life is all scheduled out, to then working from home and you're your own boss.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, of course, Johnny, you've been in this for a long time.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you are you understand those rhythms, but for people who are new to that, that's really emotionally um it's like throwing a whole wrench into your life because you're not used to it.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to, it takes some time for sure.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: It does, and I had to learn.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I just and I want your listeners to know that I am definitely not perfect at this.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still making mistakes.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I will continue to make mistakes and learn from them, and that's the key, is um, but having at least sort of a skeleton structure in place is gonna help a lot.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what you need.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had known this when I started back in 2008, but things were different then too.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a different person now than I was then, you know.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we um I I had a friend tell me recently, because I is for one client especially, I used to do about 50 newsletter newsletters a year for them.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly I was quite busy and quite focused.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she said to me, she said, but you're not there anymore.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's you were in a different place and a different period.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And back then it worked, but it's not gonna work for you now.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of got my wheels turning again, too.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now what am I gonna do moving forward?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes it's funny how the light bulb moments come from other people.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we, you know, from our awesome friends sometimes that know us and realize that okay, we need to do something different.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but I think and I think a big thing for me too is how am I gonna get people to stop taking advantage of me?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna get them to stop running my business?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna run the business myself?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that took me a long time to figure out.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say this I feel a whole lot more comfortable, confident.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and others that I've spoken to recently that have known me over the years, they can they sense it and they tell me that that um that I feel a whole lot better in this in this place that I'm in.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's just trial and error, and we do the best we can uh at the time with the information that we have.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm working with.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all you can expect of yourself or of anybody else.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, give yourself grace, as you said.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: One of the gifts of I know I know obviously COVID was a bad thing.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's kind of blanketly understood.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: However, and I think this is important, however, the advantage of something that is so disruptive to the whole world or the culture is that it makes everybody rethink everything.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's actually a good thing.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should put it that way.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything is off the table um in terms of what kind of a career do we want to have, what's our life gonna look like, what are our goals or our plans, the opportunities that we have.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that's set in stone anymore, and I think that's actually a really good thing.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for somebody who's maybe been stuck in a job they don't like or stuck doing certain types of client work maybe that they don't like, today's a great day to rethink all that because ever everything is in flux right now, and it's gonna be that way for a while.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a gift that it's an unexpected gift that has been given to all of us.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So why not make make a change, you know?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no better time to make a change.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and step back.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think um when we run a business, we should we should review our business every six to twelve months.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Step back on the going, okay, what's working, what isn't, um, and and make changes.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to walk away and say, okay, this this isn't working um because it's about your business.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if your business is suffering, change it.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: If it's thriving in certain areas, take a look at that.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do to make it even better in that area?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, change change can be very good.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's scary, but it can be very good.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's a type of service that I I used to offer.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot talk today on this podcast.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I used to offer author services, which was in addition to ghostwriting, I would do a couple other things, but then I would also offer um basically project managing their book, taking care of all the KDP and Amazon, Ingram Spark, uploading, quality check, um some marketing stuff.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I decided um that wasn't really profitable.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of work, it's a lot of hassle.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there, and I have a variety of friends in my life who can do that way more efficiently and they really enjoy that.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I just a few months ago, I just stopped offering that.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which was actually really, really nice that I could just say, I'm sorry, I don't offer that anymore.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really where my main strength is.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so anybody listening, gosh, I would encourage you to if there's not something that's a really profitable part of your business and you don't enjoy it, then just stop doing it and refer refer to other people who do it better.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's um that I think that's with anything.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Once you realize I need help in this area, maybe I need to stop doing the graphic design and I need to hire graphic design.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or absolutely.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I need, you know, it's just it's amazing the um the uh relief that can be almost off your you can almost feel it as if it's being lifted off your shoulders because you've been carrying that weight.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, it just yeah, we do need to kind of step back and and reevaluate every all the time and don't beat yourself up.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just, you know, and I've had to learn that too.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I do not I have got to stop beating myself up, I said, and look at okay, what did I learn from this?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's and that's why I think now for me I'm in a in a better place because I've learned so much of this by experience.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jonathan, thanks so much for being a guest today.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: This has been an absolute blast.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: You've shared tons of really great tips.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I appreciate you sharing your journey.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find out more about your services and um all the cool stuff that you're doing?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much, Kent.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: This I've been looking forward to this conversation and I had a lot of fun with you.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they can certainly go to my website, jmlacey.com, and it shows all of my uh programs and the things that I do.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's also my newsletter that they could sign up for uh once a week.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I send a newsletter on it's called Writer Authentic that I send some really cool writing tips, at least I think they're cool.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also on LinkedIn, I'm I work on there pretty heavily.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So feel free to uh find me on LinkedIn and uh send a connection request.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd certainly be happy to uh connect with all of your listeners also.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: So awesome.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you again.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you, Kent.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as you can see, Jana not only has a lot of interesting insights to share with us and a lot of great tips for improving our systems, our mindset, and operations, she's also a business owner herself, and she's there in the trenches every single day, just like you and I are, working with clients or working on our own books and working on marketing and and monetization and becoming more profitable and just trying to be more successful overall as a business owner, as a human being, and also as a writer.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so thankful that I was able to bring Jonna on to the episode today to share her wisdom and insight with us.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Jonna, thanks so much.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, truly appreciate you and appreciate the insights that you share with our listeners today.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for everybody listening, as always, I know I say this every single episode, but my goodness, I so appreciate you listening to this show.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: It means the world to me, and I'm really excited for some upcoming episodes that we have in the pipeline.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lots and lots of good stuff coming your way as we always do.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, I will see you next time.