Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Messy Kitchen, Messy Food Ep 105

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Messy Kitchen, Messy Food Ep 105 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello Chefs. This is Chefs PSA Podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Andre Netara. On today's episode, we're going
• 0:05
  to call it messy kitchen, Messy food.
• 0:07
  Stay tuned. Now before we get started,
• 0:21
  here's a brief update. I have some guest episodes
• 0:24
  coming up next. The next one that I'll put out
• 0:26
  next week is with Alex Gonzales. It's the service episode.
• 0:30
  So I brought on an expert with regards to front of the house
• 0:33
  service team. And he's he's amazing.
• 0:35
  I've worked with him for a number of years.
• 0:37
  He's worked at some great restaurants.
• 0:39
  So if you're interested in service, you don't want to miss
• 0:41
  the next episode. If you want access to it early,
• 0:45
  as well as other exclusive podcasts, you can subscribe to
• 0:48
  my Sub Stack channel. Premium members on my Sub Stack
• 0:51
  channel get 15% off anything from the Chef's PSA store.
• 0:55
  Ebooks, including the new one that I just put out.
• 0:57
  Bad Cooks Everywhere audiobooks. Exclusive podcasts.
• 1:01
  I'm going to release them there first before they come out to
• 1:04
  the general public for everyone else.
• 1:06
  Also, here's my new book Bad Cooks Everywhere.
• 1:09
  If you haven't got the paperback version, it's already out.
• 1:12
  Bad Cooks Everywhere, go get it. Ebook version is out.
• 1:14
  The audiobook version is wrapping up as we speak.
• 1:17
  I'm hoping to have that available on Audible in the next
• 1:20
  few weeks. So if you're waiting for the
• 1:22
  audiobook version, it's in the works.
• 1:23
  I've also put out the new Spanish version of Culinary
• 1:26
  Leadership Fundamentals on audio as well.
• 1:28
  So what prompted this episode? Well, what prompted this episode
• 1:33
  was a voicemail that I got. So one of my friends reached out
• 1:37
  to me and said we got to talk about dirty kitchens and some of
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  the nasty things that happened behind the scenes that people
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  don't talk about. I'm a big believer in working
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  clean and having clean kitchens. It's underrated.
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  So today's episode, we're going to cover the downside of having
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  a dirty kitchen, some things that you could do, and it's not
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  just from a sanitation standpoint.
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  So obviously, first and foremost, the reason why you
• 1:56
  want to have a clean kitchen is because you want to serve clean,
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  healthy food. You don't want to be getting
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  anyone sick with E coli, salmonella, or any of those
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  other foodborne illnesses. You want to make sure that
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  everyone has proper hygiene in your kitchen.
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  They're washing their hands or they're wearing gloves, or
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  they're wearing their gloves and washing their hands.
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  Every state is different so I'm not sure what proper protocol is
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  where you live because not everywhere has a glove policy.
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  So I it's funny, I see people getting mad on Instagram all the
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  time when they see people cooking without gloves.
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  But not every state requires you to wear gloves.
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  Some frown on gloves because they want you to wash your hands
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  and they think wearing gloves incentivizes people to not wash
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  their hands. But it's not just about clean
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  food, it's also about efficiency and work.
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  A clean, organized kitchen it's a pleasure to be in.
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  It just feels better when you're working in a clean kitchen
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  versus a dirty one. Everything has its place,
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  Everything is organized, everything's labeled and dated.
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  There's proper hierarchy. Vegetables are ready to eat food
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  on top, poultry and shell eggs on the bottom, glass on the
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  bottom shelf. Why glass on the bottom shelf?
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  Well, because of the glass breaks.
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  It's not going to fall down on the thing below it.
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  So that's why that's a good rule of thumb is you always put glass
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  on the bottom shelf. Depending on where you are,
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  there might be hierarchy that's very specific.
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  Usually it's ready to eat foods on top, whole muscle that's
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  typically going to be cooked at 135° below that, then whole
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  muscle meats, pork, beef, then ground meats and then poultry.
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  On the bottom are eggs. And the reason that is so for
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  people that don't understand, I might I might blow your mind
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  with something so simple. A lot of people already know
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  this, but maybe you don't know this.
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  The reason that food hierarchy is done that way with ready to
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  eat foods on top and potentially hazardous foods on the bottom is
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  that if contamination happens down, it's OK, but contamination
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  can't happen from bottom up. Meaning that the chicken is
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  going to be cooked to about 165 usually in most places depending
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  on the law. Ground meats going to be 155 or
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  so and then 135 for whole muscle and seafood is roughly the same
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  one 35145 depending on on where you live.
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  Then produce and ready to eat. You don't necessarily have to
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  cook it. If the chicken drips on the
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  vegetable crudite we have a problem because you're not going
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  to cook the carrots in the celery to 165°.
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  But if the celery juice drops on the chicken, you're still going
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  to cook it to 165, so you're OK. If the ground meat that needs to
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  be cooked to 155 Fahrenheit drops on the chicken, you're OK
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  because you're going to cook it to 165.
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  But if the chicken contaminates the beef, you're only cooking it
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  to 155, not the 165. So you're not killing all the
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  potential pathogens that are in there.
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  So that that's why the hierarchy is built that way.
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  For those of you that didn't know, I think everyone knows
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  that if especially if you work in a kitchen, but maybe you
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  don't. So anyway, that's why hierarchy
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  is set up the way it is. I mean, the ideal situation in a
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  kitchen is you want to have different carts or different
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  storage areas for different things.
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  So you don't necessarily store your produce on the same cart
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  speed rack as your chicken. You'd want to have, you know, a
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  designated poultry area, designated produce area,
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  designated ready to eat area. You want to make sure
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  everything's labeled and dated, rotated.
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  And it's funny, people get really picky about the way you
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  should label and date. Some people are like, you have
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  to put the expiration date. Some people say it's three days
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  out. Some people say you have to put
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  the label of when you're throwing it out.
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  Seven days later, three days later.
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  Everyone's different. Every state and city I've worked
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  in has had a different protocol. So don't listen to me.
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  Listen to whatever your state and local health regulations say
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  that they say. It's three days, it's three
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  days, seven and seven. Whatever the case may be, make
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  sure it's labeled appropriately. I'm a big believer in tape.
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  Green tape over blue tape. Blue tape's fine too.
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  But for those of you that don't know, This is why I'm a green
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  tape person over a blue tape person.
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  As I was helping out a friend in a kitchen and their light bulbs
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  were out in their walk in cooler and as I walked in looking for
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  my museum. Plus there were certain things
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  that were labeled in blue tape and certain things that were
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  labeled in green tape. And the things that were labeled
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  in blue tape I couldn't read. But the things that were labeled
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  in green tape in the dark were much easier to see.
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  So it was at that moment that I became a green tape person.
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  So I used to be a Big Blue tape person, but now I'm a green tape
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  person for the only reason is that I think it's easier to read
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  the Sharpie and the label that's on that container.
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  So anyway, we digress. Everything's labeled and dated.
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  It's nice and organized. Everything's properly rotated.
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  First in, first out, FIFO. You have a general cleanliness
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  practice. Employees know to wash their
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  hands. When do you wash your hands?
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  As they say, after every possible point of contamination.
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  You touch something that contaminates it.
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  Wash your hand when switching jobs, wash your hands.
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  Wipe your cutting board, sanitize it.
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  Make sure you have sanitation solution on your station.
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  Make sure you're using it. When I would do kitchen walks, I
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  wouldn't necessarily want to find clean sanitizer because
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  clean sanitizer 2 hours after the shift started means they
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  haven't used it once, right? So you want to make sure that
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  sanitation water is being used and that people are encouraged
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  to use it. You're changing it out every few
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  hours depending on what you use or depending on what your
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  regulation says. Most places give you a little
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  strip so you can test the strength you want to have a
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  clean up procedure. I've been seeing a lot of these
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  Instagram videos lately of a lot of high end kitchens.
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  I think Justin Cogley put one up the other day.
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  Shout out to Justin where he was scrubbing down, scrubbing the
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  floor, sweeping, squeegee, all that.
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  I think Mugarita occasionally puts some of those videos up as
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  well. I don't know why.
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  I really enjoy watching the kitchen scrub down videos,
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  They're cool to me. But there's a proper procedure
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  to scrub down. Everything should get cleaned,
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  the floor should get scrubbed then with soapy water, then they
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  should get squeegeed into the drain.
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  If you work in some of those types of kitchens that want to
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  make sure that the stainless is always buffed back and forth
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  motion only with a little green scrubby to make sure that
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  there's no circles on the stainless steel, no circle
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  scratches. So depending on where you were,
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  I used to make my cooks buff them straight back and forth.
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  A lot of places do that. Some places it doesn't matter.
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  But anyway, you do what you want.
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  You want to make sure that your kitchen is clean and organized.
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  You want to remove things from your kitchen that aren't
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  necessary and you want to make sure that your kitchen is
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  organized in a flow so that people could always find things
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  and know where they are and that the cooler is clean.
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  It smells good. Back in the days, I used to love
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  the smell of bleach, back when we used to be able to mop with
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  bleach. I don't, I don't think you can
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  anymore in a lot of places. But when a walk in cooler would
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  smell like bleach, it was like, yeah, that that's great.
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  I used to love it because you knew the kitchen was clean.
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  You know, the walk in was clean. The smell of bleach brings back
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  good kitchen memories for me of clean kitchens.
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  Now I've worked in really dirty kitchens and there's a lot of
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  really dirty kitchens out there. I pride myself in having a clean
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  kitchen. When people would come over to
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  be a guest chef or whatever, I want to make sure that the
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  kitchen is pristine. We do a big scrub down, make
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  sure it's ready. I want people walking into my
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  kitchen feeling welcome and say, wow, you have a really clean
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  kitchen. There's no bigger compliments
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  sometimes from chef to chef than to say, wow, you have a really
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  clean kitchen. If they don't say it, it's
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  because they're not thinking it. And I've gone to some kitchens
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  that are nasty. I went to go work in this
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  celebrity chef's kitchen when I was young.
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  So I don't know. I was maybe like 20-3 years old.
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  I won't say the chef, but I remember I walked into their
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  kitchen to go work and stylish for the day and I was disgusted
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  at how gross that kitchen was. I was like, this is one of the
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  best restaurants in the country and there's pieces of the
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  ceiling crumbling and falling into the stock pot as they were
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  making their veal stock or whatever it was that was
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  simmering overnight. And it's like right below the
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  crumbling ceiling. And I just remember thinking
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  this is one of the best restaurants in the world.
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  That's crazy. It blew my mind.
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  I've also worked with some great chefs that create amazing food
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  and they're dirty ass chefs. It looks like a tornado's gone
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  through their station. I think it's a sign of a
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  professional that could work clean and not just keep their
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  station clean, but keep their uniform clean, whatever.
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  They're wearing their apron. One of my biggest pet peeves
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  early on. You'll read us in the first
• 9:51
  Chef's PSA book and some of the early PSA.
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  A good chef never wipes their dirty hands on their clean
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  apron. Nothing drives me more crazy
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  than someone doing that and picking up their apron and
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  drying their hands. To me, that's gross.
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  Respect the apron. The apron should be clean.
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  You go to the bathroom, take the apron off, roll it up nice and
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  tight. I roll mine like a burrito I put
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  on the side. I never take it into the
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  restroom with me. And for those of you that are
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  going into the restroom with your apron, like what are you
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  thinking? Like you can't just flip it over
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  your shoulder. I mean, what are you doing?
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  I don't know what you're doing, but it sounds nasty.
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  And then and then it's even worse when the restroom that you
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  have to use is also the guest restroom.
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  And so like you're in there with your apron and the guest is
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  waiting to use the bathroom. And then here comes the The
• 10:37
  Dirty cook coming out of the restroom with their apron on,
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  drying their hands on their apron.
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  Oh, sorry, I didn't know you were waiting.
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  It's like, fuck, that's so gross.
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  Chefs don't wear your apron to the restroom.
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  There's nothing grosser than that.
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  Nothing. Make sure you're washing your
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  hands too when you're coming out of the restroom.
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  Anyway, we digress. Where were we?
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  I went to this restaurant once in Dallas and it was a great
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  restaurant. Food was incredible.
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  I was loving the vibe. And the executive chef came over
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  to have a conversation with my friends and I that were sitting
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  at the table and I remember he walked up.
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  He was a nasty, dirty chef. Just nasty dirty T-shirt, dirty
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  apron came up, rubbing his hands on his apron.
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  Just not the most professional chef I I've ever come across.
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  I won't say who, but I just remember thinking like, you're
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  in the middle of your dining room.
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  It's a high end restaurant and you're coming out looking like
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  that. And I and I'm like, I don't
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  necessarily want to eat the food anymore.
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  Like if that's how you look, how do the cooks in the back
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  operate? Everyone's judging your kitchen.
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  Whenever a chef goes into your kitchen, trust me, they are
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  judging your kitchen and how clean it is.
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  Chefs are judging people. I don't know why we just are
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  sometimes probably makes us feel better about our inadequacies.
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  Anyway, I've been in kitchens and I've seen and I know of, you
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  know, the drains are backing up, but they're like, keep serving
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  food, we can't lose the money. There's roaches in the kitchen
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  and they're like, sorry, pretend you don't see that.
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  There's some disgusting things that happen in kitchens.
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  The fact that these are disgusting conditions in which
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  people are working and it has to keep ownership and chefs honest.
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  If you've never been more incentivized to make sure you
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  have a clean kitchen, right now is the time.
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  Because trust me, in today's world, it's very transparent.
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  If you're running a dirty kitchen, people are going to
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  know. The most honest thing you could
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  do is you could be like those kitchens that have cameras in
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  their kitchen. That way people could see how
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  you work or open kitchens. Those are great because they
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  keep you honest. When you're back there in a
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  dungeon in a basement, kitchen drains are backing up.
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  Faucets don't work, There's no hand washing sink.
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  You're out of soap, right? The guest doesn't know that.
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  You know that, but the guest doesn't.
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  I think if we want more transparency and cleanliness in
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  kitchens, open kitchens are the way to go.
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  Or cameras so that people could see.
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  Like, I think eventually people are going to demand to see
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  what's going on in the kitchen before they eat their food.
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  People want to work in clean kitchens.
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  People want to eat and clean restaurants.
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  I'm going to play a voicemail that I received from a friend of
• 12:58
  mine the other day talking about dirty kitchens.
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  Yeah, What's going on, chef? Yeah, I know.
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  Long time no talk, man. We've both been busy.
• 13:07
  But yeah, man, I'm telling you, you really should sit there and
• 13:10
  do a podcast. One episode about all of The
• 13:13
  Dirty shit that goes on inside of a kitchen that nobody talks
• 13:19
  about. Because I'm telling you, like my
• 13:22
  chef, my my boss disgusting. And knows those that that Bain
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  Marie picture is just proof because they just refuse to
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  clean that shit. You know, like there ain't even
• 13:34
  no proper pipe that it connects to, you know, for it to drain.
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  So, you know, this shit's just nasty as hell.
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  So when I got that voicemail, I thought, OK, I got to do a
• 13:45
  podcast on cleanliness and sanitation, which I don't think
• 13:48
  I have done one already. I probably haven't because it's
• 13:50
  kind of a boring subject. But anyway, last thing I want to
• 13:52
  talk about is health inspections.
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  What are some things that you can do to make sure that you
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  have a good health inspection? One of the things that I've done
• 13:59
  in the past is I would have obviously first and foremost, we
• 14:02
  want to make sure you're running a clean kitchen.
• 14:04
  That's the obvious answer, but what are some other things that
• 14:07
  you can do besides? The obvious one is you have a
• 14:09
  fire drill. Meaning when a fire drill
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  happens, health inspectors here, everyone knows what they need to
• 14:14
  do. Every place is different.
• 14:16
  For example, maybe someone says fire drill and they know like
• 14:20
  OK, fill sanitizer buckets. Someone else is on labeling and
• 14:23
  dating. Someone else is sweeping and
• 14:25
  mopping, someone else is checking fridge temps, whatever.
• 14:28
  Someone else is going around making sure that everyone has
• 14:31
  gloves, the sanitation buckets on their station.
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  Everyone has an action item that they need to do during the fire
• 14:36
  drill and they know what their job is.
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  Then you occasionally have a fire drill.
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  You don't tell them if it's real or not.
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  You just say health inspector, whatever the code word is and
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  you see how people operate to get the kitchen in order.
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  Now ideally, obviously your kitchen should always be in
• 14:50
  order, but let's be honest, that's not always the case.
• 14:54
  And who doesn't want a better score?
• 14:56
  There is human error happening in the kitchens.
• 14:58
  We are dealing with people. Just because you're an excellent
• 15:00
  chef and you have 10 excellent cooks doesn't mean that the 11th
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  isn't the knucklehead and forgot to cool down something properly
• 15:07
  and forgot to label and date it right.
• 15:08
  This happens in every kitchen. If you think otherwise then you
• 15:11
  haven't worked in enough kitchens.
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  So having a fire drill is good. When the health inspector gets
• 15:16
  there, it should be obvious. You never put the health
• 15:18
  inspector in the kitchen without the chef knowing.
• 15:21
  There's nothing worse than turning around and being like,
• 15:24
  hey, the intern just let the health inspector and he's
• 15:26
  waiting for you in your office or he's already or they're
• 15:28
  already going around taking temperatures without you
• 15:30
  knowing, right? Nothing worse than that.
• 15:31
  You want to make sure the health inspector have them wait.
• 15:34
  The chef should go meet them first.
• 15:36
  Always walk with them. Don't be an asshole to the
• 15:38
  health inspector. Like I used to see chefs that
• 15:41
  would argue with health inspectors and I never knew why.
• 15:43
  I was like, why you fighting with them?
• 15:44
  Because yeah, you might have been right on that one point,
• 15:47
  but now they're going to find ten other ones that you might be
• 15:49
  wrong on. Maybe they're going to be
• 15:50
  lenient on you. So it's just I'm always
• 15:52
  respectful and nice. I know you can't and usually
• 15:54
  can't offer them something to eat or drink.
• 15:56
  They usually say no. But, you know, be as respectful
• 15:59
  as possible to the health inspector, walk with them.
• 16:01
  And when they point something out, if you can, correct it
• 16:04
  immediately. So if they say, hey, you know,
• 16:08
  that's improper hierarchy storage, you say, thank you so
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  much for pointing that out. I'll get on that right away.
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  And then you switch it right in front of them.
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  At least they know you're proactive.
• 16:16
  Instead of saying, oh, OK. And then you sit there and you
• 16:19
  argue with them as to it's so and so's fault.
• 16:21
  That normally doesn't happen. It's like, no, just fix it.
• 16:24
  They don't care whose fault it is.
• 16:24
  It's in your kitchen. You're running it right, you're
• 16:26
  responsible. Fix it at the end of it, sit
• 16:29
  down with them, review the things that they went over,
• 16:32
  create an action plan and implement your action plan
• 16:34
  quickly. The sooner you take care of
• 16:36
  those actions the better because a lot of times they turn right
• 16:38
  around and come back and re inspect you.
• 16:40
  And you want to make sure that you're showing that you're the
• 16:43
  person for the job and that you want to run a clean kitchen.
• 16:45
  Top of all of that, having a clean kitchen is better to work
• 16:48
  and it's more comfortable. It's more organized.
• 16:50
  It's the sign of a good show. Anyway, that's it for today.
• 16:53
  You know what to do. If you're listening on Spotify,
• 16:55
  make sure you leave five stars, nothing less than five stars.
• 16:57
  Why? Well, because it's a 5 star
• 16:59
  podcast, obviously if you're watching on YouTube, make sure
• 17:03
  you hit the like and subscribe button.
• 17:04
  If you want more exclusive content, go subscribe and become
• 17:08
  a premium member on my sub stack.
• 17:09
  I'll link it in the show notes. Go to chefspsa.com.
• 17:13
  You get the new book. I just put out Bad Cooks
• 17:15
  everywhere. You get all the books on Amazon.
• 17:16
  Really. You get this hat.
• 17:18
  We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.