Latest / The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+ / He Left the Perfect Life at 50—and Found Himself Instead

Transcript

He Left the Perfect Life at 50—and Found Himself Instead · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Lauren Crawford.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: These are not conversations about decline, they are conversations about becoming.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm with Jaime Fernandez.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to introduce Jaime.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Before I do that, I just want to remind everyone we're not here as celebrities or stars.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're not here because we've got everything figured out and we have all the answers to every one of our questions about life.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're here because we've lived our lives, we've got stories to tell.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, in some of that, there's some transformation, there's some inspiration that we can bring by way of having this conversation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So Jaime is a first-generation, a late 50s divorced Latino gay male with a passion for the intersection of law, technology, and business, as well as continuous self-development and healthy, purposeful relationships with others.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where would you like to uh start?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell us anything that you would like to add to that bio that I presented of you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was a grew up, all of that stuff.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like you alluded to, I'm first generation to the states.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: My family's originally from Panama.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up, however, in New York, various parts of New York, so Brooklyn, New York, but then also upstate New York.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I am the oldest of my three siblings.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and I'm late 50s, as you alluded to.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll turn 58 actually in June, which I'm very happy about, surprisingly, because I feel like at this stage in life, things get a little, I actually feel like I'm in my prime more than I am on the descent.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very interesting.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, first generation to everything, yeah, to the to the country, first to go to school, first to have a really true professional career.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So been very fortunate.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, first generation in many in many aspects.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I also love the idea that you're excited about being 58.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I get excited every birthday.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I think like with each passing year, there's more wisdom and there's more more more of me knowing me even better.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's beautiful.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about, you know, one of the things we like to start out with here is a little bit of a pivot story, a turning point, something that may have happened in your life in the last, you know, since 50 anyway, and what that's looked like.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about your pivot story.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think I really had kind of two instances, I should say, that were truly pivotal when I look back, right?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they happened exactly around the 50-year-old kind of mark.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: First was leaving a 14-year marriage or relationship, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which came about me realizing that my spouse was no longer invested in either me nor the relationship.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, that realizing that my spouse had some unresolved trauma that manifested in some bad behaviors, some kind of dangerous and even negative attitudes, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, me getting out of that relationship and deciding to pursue law school and going across country to do that, which was a little daunting to be honest, because uh essentially I left everything behind, you know, and so, but you know, the one of the other realizations was that, you know, I was in, I had to do what's right for me, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured out nobody had my back, and so I had to make a change and be almost like an advocate for myself.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of like the two, I would say, monumental kind of changes or pivots uh around the 50-year-old mark.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and how how was that to leave a marriage of 14 years?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did that impact you?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would say it was very, I would say I without being too dramatic, it was a little traumatizing at first, to be honest, because up until that point, my ex-husband and I had what would most people would consider to be like a perfect life, in so many words.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like essentially, we were kind of like a power super couple in so many ways.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're talking about two highly educated, highly accomplished individuals.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We were both individually independent, but you can imagine when you have two kind of people at the same level.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my my my ex-husband was a physician, I was an engineer and lawyer, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, very what, and we we had a very good life, you know, together.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think most people would be like, you guys have like kind of the perfect life.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: You got multiple homes, multiple dogs, multiple cars, you guys go travel, do whatever.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple cars, right?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, but but I would say, you know, a lot of this, it was also traumatizing because to a certain degree, I also, when I left my spouse, it was also someone that I greatly cared for.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he was dealing with uh, he was literally just recovering from a very traumatic surgery.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, condition where he literally almost died three times.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So even though it's so there's a conflict, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you to a certain degree, the relationship you know isn't worth it.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: However, you have very strong connections to this person because you guys have achieved like the pinnacle of what most people would say in a relationship, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Very deep, very we've done some amazing things.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Also, the emotional connection because this person almost died three times, you know, and we got through this together.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the feeling of like deserting someone, right, after knowing that they've gone through this, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it was just too much of a burden or cross for me to bear at that point.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just realized that like it's not gonna work, regardless of how much love I have for this person.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Grasping with those two kind of issues was that that's a little, you know, difficult.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's a really powerful realization you had about needing to move forward, even though you're in a situation where some people might look at you and say, Jaime, you're an asshole.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how could you do that?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you you ultimately had to make a choice that was you know aligned with who you are as an individual.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, you know, it's also very difficult because I think most of us tend to be creatures of habit.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you're what you're used to and how you handle certain situations, you revert back to that, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you revert back to those old behaviors.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say like the old me, you know, and to a certain degree wanted to hold on to this relationship, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've built this wonderful life with somebody.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I also realized too that there were certain things that I was holding on maybe a little bit too much.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, meaning, for instance, I did not want to be a statistic, you know, I didn't want to be another minority that's in a failed relationship.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be alone, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized only now after going through like a little bit of therapy was that my own traumas and triggers, right, that I had never that I had suppressed for a number of years, never really dealt with.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them, for example, was failing at stuff, being alone, right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those really stemmed from my abandonment issues, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I had.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I grew up in a single parent home where my dad left at two.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was two years old when I left and officially became the man of the house, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's how my mom used to introduce me to people, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I had abandonment issues because I dealt with a lot of multiple deaths of very important people in my life, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: My uncle, who grew up with me, he lived in the same house as me, died from AIDS in the 80s when I was in college, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: My best friend that I graduated law school with died literally months after we had attended grad school together, right?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we were the only two black guys in our graduate program, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we were and he was gay and we were best friends, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I also, you know, earlier in my career or before I went to grad school, I lived in San Francisco in like the late 80s, early 90s, and there were so many friends that I made that were really good people.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, people were still dying every week in the early 90s, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you look at it in some, I really never, I mean, I would meet some incredible people and then they would in an instant be out of my life, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And all the while through this, even growing up as a kid, I always felt like I never had anyone I could really rely on, right?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what that's why I'm like fiercely independent.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you notice, like me having four degrees, a part of that is like just I'm crazy and and neurotic in the sense that like I feel like I have to do something very extra, right?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Extraordinary.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: In the uh in the positive intelligence world, that's the hyperachiever saboteur being hard at work, making sure that you're achieving, achieving, achieving the the one of the and some people might say that's really good.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, a lot of that achieving comes with conditional self-love.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't love yourself fully unless you're proving and achieving more and more and more.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so I just want to circle back a little bit.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for sharing all of that and being vulnerable.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really beautiful.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: We need more of that.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the message you said about getting stuck in patterns, I think this is I I just want to circle back to that because it's so important, especially in midlife.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times in midlife, we have this little bit of angst that comes up, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we may not know what is that?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I feeling unfulfilled right now?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I should feel fulfilled.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a decent life, I've got, you know, whatever.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that that bit of us is something inside, let's call it the soul, is kind of saying, Hey, wake up.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's more to this than you're seeing, but we can be so enmeshed in those patterns and so kind of uncomfortable about maybe shifting those patterns that we choose not to.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be the recipe for coming to the end of your life and looking back with a lot of regret.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm one that's like, let's live this life to the fullest.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: If that means that, you know, a relationship that from the outside, like yours, looked ideal and perfect, but it's not ultimately fulfilling you, then you have to make a choice, right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I I applaud you.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of hard work to get there.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: But and and and to be honest, I don't always have all the answers, but the thing that I keep in mind is that I'm a work in progress, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, but I but it's I put in a lot of work to get to this point.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the other side, is that what you put in is usually what you get out, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and so talk to me about I went back to university at 28 and I thought that that was an achievement, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So tell tell me about you know, embarking on a whole new academic area, you know, at that stage, at this stage in your life.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think a lot of it was driven.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I love to learn.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even as a child, I was like very fascinated by a lot of things, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And but I also as I got older, I also realized that like I was always I'm always been outspoken, very direct with people, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's the New Yorker in me.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I realized that like there are a lot of people that don't have a voice.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And as old as I am, right, over the years, I realized that like I didn't see change, to be honest.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, in order to see the change that I want, I have to be that change, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have to like I realize that not everyone has the strength to maybe speak out, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or to even advocate for others, or to even identify where there are issues.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: With everything that I've gone through, I don't have an issue expressing my point of view or correcting people, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: If I see foolishness going on, I call it for what it is.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Not to be like cause controversy or conflict, but also I'm not going to sugarcoat and BS stuff, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just maybe the old, you know, the old buzzard in me that's just like I've had enough and I've seen enough nonsense.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just again, so for me, going to law school was being more informed, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people don't know.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: They they go based on what they perceived or what someone else told them.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, for me, this was going to the source of what ends up being the source of truth for a lot of things, right and wrong, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but it was also something where the other thing that's interesting, what most people don't know, is that there are literally two fields that as you get older, you become more valuable.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, unfortunately, are in position.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in high, I had a really good, great career in high tech prior in Silicon Valley.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But even with everything that I had accomplished in that world, I really I saw the writing on the wall that there was ageism.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And despite how whatever great things that I had done, at a certain point, they were going to, I was out of there, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't fit the model of what corporate's looking for, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: They want fresher ideas, bushy tail, you know, bright eye young people.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: In the two fields I mentioned, medicine and and law, the older you get, the more you're revered.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: The more no one wants the young doctor.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You want the seasoned doctor who's seen some things and can, you know what I mean?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can can can treat.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing for a lawyer.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: The more the older you get, that's who we're gonna go.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're more expensive, but we know what we're getting, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're a commodity, and so that's what I realized.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for me, is that especially if I'm doing this by myself, I needed to, because my whole thing is like I need to be stable.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also thinking about the future.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always thinking, like, I need to be able to provide for myself, even if it's just me, because the odds are at this point I might not have another relationship.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've had my one true love, right?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I'm fine with it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but my thing is like I need to be able to provide for myself because I quite honestly, I've never had anyone to rely on.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't trust it.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust much people, many people.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust, even if I tell them what to do, they're going to execute the way that I want it to be done.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, guess what?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I do it for myself, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that's why I work hard, and that's why it was like you're going to law school, you're gonna have the tools that you need to one, be an advocate for other people, but also you're gonna have the tools and the skills on top of what you've already done so that you can continue your career, and then ideally, you can create the situation that you want, which involves peace and really just uh having love for my close friends and my family, and maybe even start my own family, yeah, even at this age, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's certainly inspiring, and yeah, I just I just think it's really important that we keep dreaming, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you're this guy who's who's doing that and and and and and manifesting, not just hoping for things, you're actually making shit happen.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, as you're in this stage of life, you know, now with four degrees, you said you've you've you've proven yourself in many areas and you're continuing to move forward.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is this consistent and continuous uh evolution of you giving you freedom from?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is it letting you let go of?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's letting go of others' perception of me or others' expectations.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's letting go of my own feelings or things that held me back, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes we're our own worst enemy, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're our strongest critic, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: We think that certain things matter or that people will perceive us some way or another, or that we need to do certain things, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, I've been able to let go a lot of things that when I look back, I'm like, that's kind of silly, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I and and like more specifically, like that certain things like just don't matter, or like if say, for instance, someone treats me bad, and the end of the day, like I don't let it bother me.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I feel like these days I'm like a duck in water, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: The water just rolls off.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And not that I let not that I'm that easy going, it's just I don't get worked up.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I'm not going to let anyone destroy my inner peace, which is what I strive for, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then even in terms of like on the other side, emotions.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the in the past, so growing up in my community, I was when you a lot of times the males are taught to kind of suppress emotions or not display it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: As I've gotten older, I'm like, no, it's okay to cry.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to, you know, like to let that out.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes you just need to release.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's more harmful to hold it in, right, than to just let it out.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And once you let it out, it's gone, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So though I would say those are two things that like for me, I'm most proud of that, like now perceptions don't even bother me.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then emotions, I I welcome the emotions.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because there's a word that that I always or a phrase that I always say, uh, that the issues are in the tissues.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if we if we have unresolved emotional stuff, it gets stuck in us.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you know, as an energy worker healer type, like you see it all the time, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then people think, oh, it's just the way I'm thinking about things.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're if you're not processing emotions, they get stuck in your body.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have tools and techniques to help to move that stuff out, great.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm loving about what you're saying is just starting to have more of that awareness that maybe I'm not, I'm not so connected to my emotional being with my feelings and all of that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as men, we have to work on that maybe a little bit harder, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because we were taught as boys, don't cry, you know, you're a sissy or whatever.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dad was brutal that way, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: He even called me by a girl's name, which was, you know, imagine how traumatizing that was.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, these things like how, as men in our at this stage in our life, if we haven't connected to our emotional self, our emotional intelligence, how do we even function properly?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and also some sometimes from all that suppression, you actually can unintentionally direct that whatever those feelings are in an improper way towards someone.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe someone says something, and maybe maybe it was like you know, improper for them to say that, but like maybe it wasn't to the degree that you took it, and you took it to that degree because you're connecting what they just did, along with some other baggage that you had that you never resolved, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I I realized that even growing up, like I it was funny how like just my evolution, even so when I just a quick story, not to sidetrack, but like when I applied to law school, I had a chance to to win a scholarship.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so they wanted to know like where was your background upbringing.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I wrote this like nice, it was kind of fluffy about my background.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I read the the instruction role, like, no, in order to win this scholarship, we want to know, like, you you can't do service level stuff.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: We want to know the real deal.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I so mind you, it took me six months to write this essay, this little fluffy one.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I was so pissed that it had taken me so long.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I have to rewrite this all again.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, you want the truth?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I literally in one day, I was like, You can't, because I literally was like, You can't handle the truth.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know like the stuff that I've been through, but you want to hear it, here you go.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally wrote it, exerted all this stuff, didn't really process it, gave it to a couple friends to read.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: My friends called me crying and were like, Oh my god, what you wrote was just like I feel this, like we know, and so what I realized though, after so after I reread it, and you know, because I'm writing this off the top of how I remember it, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, very little editorial stuff, and even I broke down afterwards, and I realized that my trauma, like I realized like the way that I was doing stuff, I was so angry at my dad, you know, and like the thing, the way that I behaved, the way that I like the way I would even interact with men, yes, was a certain like if you didn't meet a certain level, I immediately pit you in like the sorry bucket, yeah, right.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is all suppressed stuff though, but it's interesting, like how you have to let it out and reflect to get to that point that you can kind of connect the dots.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what I wanted to ask you, and you answered the question already, but I'm gonna I'm gonna say it anyway, was how did it feel when you did that that expository writing, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like getting that out.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you already answered that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: You said you didn't process it, you didn't feel it until you got the feedback from others, and then you went back, and that's when there was an emotional connection to the words that you actually and that is so powerful.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: What anyone that's listening to this or watching.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you sense that you've got stuff bottled, the best way to start to move through it is to just start journaling and journal not from a place of like you're saying, it's not editorializing, you're not trying to sugarcoat anything.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: You just pick up the pen and do it with pen and paper.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it on the computer because the tactile writing is really powerful.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And just start writing and make that a if you if you've got if you sense you've got a bunch of bottled up stuff in there, which a lot of us do, sure, you can choose to go to therapy and and all that, but you can also just start to write and see what comes out because that stuff needs to be released.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you shared that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's so powerful.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's scary, it's not an easy thing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know it sounds easy like me telling, like, but it it's not an easy wound.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you were cut on your hand and you had a really terrible wound and it took time to heal, and over time, like maybe gets you know, you have that scar.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to pick up that scar, you want to actually forget that that scar even exists.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: You and I I definitely am guilty of that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where there are certain things that happen in my life, I literally deprogrammed it out of my like I had it suppressed that deeply.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and most of humanity is that, which you're just describing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the world's in such a fucking crisis, because we've got all of this unresolved shit on so many levels, the collective consciousness level, and then within ourselves.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then so it plays out like this chaos that we're living in, you know?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's sad that we haven't been equipped with the tools of self-reflection, of connecting to our feelings.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there are like I'm I'm I'm not anti-therapy.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Get like, let's be really clear about that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not the only model.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are different ways that we can like again picking up a pan of paper and just starting to write about what's inside of me, you know, starting to write about the relationship with your father, if it was a shitty one like mine was, you know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I healed that shit, but you know, before he died, thankfully, because then I don't have that guilt.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Find out more about the wisdom trust at school.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: School.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Our webpage is thewisdomtrust.com.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: On Substack, we're the Wisdom Trust.substack.com.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the Wisdom Trust 50.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you've done this work and you're you're moving forward.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the next segment is kind of like the you absolved yourself of some of the stuff.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: You you're you're on this new uh shifting and evolving path.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does that give you freedom to move towards?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you've moved away from from from some stuff, and now what are you moving toward?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: A stronger sense of self and purpose.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: So valuing myself, having purpose in the sense of like again, as I get older, shifting from, you know, the when you're younger and you're gay, sometimes you tend to think things revolve around you.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And as I get older, I think about my legacy and I think about helping others, not me being fabulous, but like, how can I be of service?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I also realize that the generation right before me is very, they were very pivotal.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like none of us would have had, we wouldn't have any freedoms at all if it wasn't the generation right before us, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: That really literally fought.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them died, you know.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so my purpose is like, how can I be help those individuals, right?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes as you get older, you're also the forgotten kind of group of people, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I see that for myself, and I don't even look that old, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: But like I know the people before me definitely don't have people advocating for them, checking on their well-being.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that's something that I really strive to do.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would say also, secondly, I think I have a sharper focus on what matters in life.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's my morals, my values.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: I try not to be judgmental for, you know, I, you know, however you want to express yourself, some things I still have to adapt with.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still adapting with pronouns and all that.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: However, I respect it, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think lastly, I've become okay, more at peace with being alone.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, and then that's an interesting thing because, like I said, I started off pretty much in life alone.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had this wonderful relationship, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where I thought I would never be alone, and then now I'm alone again.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And but I'm okay, I'm at peace with it because you know, being alone is not a negative, yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's not a bad thing, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people, for instance, that are in relationships, they probably should not be in relationships, right?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, and they're hanging on, they're hanging on by a thread for the reasons.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: That comes back to that healing bit.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you you've done this, you've deep dive into healing at this stage in your life, which I think is is is amazing.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that you were talking about there too is service.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think at this stage in life, um, and again, this is this is one of the reasons why I'm doing this.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything you just said there, I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: When we get to this stage in life, how can we give back, if that's the correct language, of what we've been able to glean from our our journeys, our our experiences?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the this is called the wisdom trust for a reason, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've amassed some wisdom here.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and how can we how can we put that out in the world in a way that helps others, that we can be of service, right?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's really, really brilliant.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And how can we connect and and find connection?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do also think it's so important that we understand that loneliness, because that's one of the one of the one of the foundational things about why I want to do this work, is because a lot of people are lonely.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's uh there's aspects to that that we can really kind of shift and change.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a state of mind.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think ultimately when we start to feel at peace within ourselves, loneliness goes away.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because inside of ourselves, we might feel like something's missing, and that might be why we're pursuing actively, you know, whether it's the boyfriend, the husband, or the next hookup, because there's something inside of us that's feeling a little bit like empty.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But that emptiness can be filled up in many, many rich and beautiful ways.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it, as an example, is listening to other people's stories and learning from what they're doing, and then maybe saying, if he did that, I could probably do that too.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I and I would say to add to that, also focus on the wonderful things you do have going on.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we focus on what we don't have and not enough on what we do have, but we do right.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: All of us have some wonderful people that have been supportive in our, you know, for us throughout the way, right?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I focus on is like what are the positive, wonderful things that I have that bring me peace that I enjoy?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's simple things, is what I found out too.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is there like is there a strategy that you have?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I hate that word strategy because it's so it's it sounds so corporate y, but what what is it you do to to get there?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like how what how can you share your process around not dwelling on the negative or or focusing more on the positive?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, again, everything centers around like peace.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I realize is that I'm at my best when I'm at peace and I have sometimes I need a little solace, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so when I was younger, I always thought like having a lot of friends and being around where all the action was was like exciting.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of was a little, but over time I grew like used to having quiet time for myself, and I use that quiet time to like reflect and stuff.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: As I've gotten older, I kind of fall back to that enjoy.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm max, even though it's quiet time, I use it in a very productive manner, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but when I reflect, it really it's like a self-check-in with myself.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I just I think about like because I've had a lot of losses, and like even recently, I lost my so I have a service pet, and I lost him literally on a business trip with me.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this was this is someone who has gone through the divorce with me.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: This this was someone who graduated law school with me, his picture is in the law school, you know, and so and I have kind of some medical conditions, and so this was someone that I just I kind of I kind of took for granted that like I would have him forever and and he would help me get through this, and then it happened abruptly, right?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like at square zero, like, oh my god, how I'm gonna continue to to move forward.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: But through that, like kind of tragedy and loss, you know, I focused on what was the positive, like instead of me for like it's sometimes, and it was a it was hard at first, like to not, I was honestly went through the wave of emotions, you know.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But then at a certain point, I was just like, I looked at what I had accomplished with him, and I was like, Oh my god, you did this, that you've you've done stuff like he did, he's done stuff humans haven't done.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a passport that not many people can can rival with his.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's had experiences that no one could like literally, and when I looked back at these pictures, and that's what conjured up, and I was like, we had a good ride.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, as much as I'm sad about things ending, we had a good ride, and it was these little moments, these simple things moments that I realized that's where I had my peace, that's where I had my joy.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I I extrapolate from that, and and I'm like, So in my mind, like anything I do, I think about the things that matter most to me, which are the simple things, right?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and I hold I hold on to that, beautiful, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good memories, and so so I would say going back to your question, like my method, I don't know if it's like a super methodical, but I just really for me hanging on to the memories.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: One, I feel like it's a way to to revere the people or the things that you've lost, right?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: You keep them fresh in your mind, you never forget them.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the one thing I try not to do is forget anything.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I and also, and through that, I'm also I feel very fortunate, right, in so many ways.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel fortunate that I'm still like kind of the last Mohegan.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here to tell the story, I'm here to, you know, and so I take I understand that like nothing is given, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can't take things for granted, I guess is what I'm saying.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So those two combine kind of, I don't know, they just keep keep me on a certain course, and I just try to stay the course, and sometimes I would say once in a while, you you you're like, oh well, maybe I should do this, or maybe you know, sometimes things will try to make maybe almost make you sway a little bit, but then I realize, like, no, that's not gonna bring me peace.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you do, there's there's the empathy around, you know, sometimes we're gonna fuck up, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're I think what I'd like to share here too, you know, it is harder for us sometimes to to cling on to or to access the positive because the brain is wired five times, is the number I often read or hear, five times more wired for the negative, right?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's predisposed that way.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just a protection mechanism in our, you know, our reptilian brain to keep us alive in in days when we were running from animals and living in cakes, right?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And but that hasn't evolved.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's this, there's this negative kind of you know thing.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then in our modern days, because we we live such cushy lives, that negative is we're drawn to so much stuff and seeing the negative first.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it is necessary that we have, you know, tools and techniques and practices that help us recognize, oh yes, and what you were saying when you were describing all of that beautiful stuff, like your your your your good life friend there who who you lost very much the energy of gratitude, right?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Not taking anything for granted.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and on top of the journaling, which I think is so important, if we can have a moment of gratitude every day.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of the neurology and new neural pathways, if you do the gratitude thing right before you go to sleep and you do it first thing in the morning when you wake up, it will start to reprogram your brain, especially if you're someone who was like me, just steeped in so much negativity.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we can again start to move and shift things, right?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at this stage in our life, if we're stuck in negativity, it's just gonna make the aging process miserable.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So let's not do that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's let's look at the like you said, the little things.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's little stuff that's that's that's so powerful, it's not the big kaboom, you know, and sometimes we want the big kaboom because that's what our society seems to show us.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the little stuff is where it's precious, correct.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and a big part of that, what I left out too is that the nature of my profession, so I deal with clients.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you're a lawyer, you're kind of a part-time therapist, is what I say.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're part, you're you're between a garbage man, because you deal with a lot of trash, and then you deal, then you're a therapist because people come in and they've got anxieties about different things.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so the same way, like the same, I guess, ways that I tell people how to handle situations or how to take situations is actually dealing with the like.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I take the advice that I give others, basically, right?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you have to you have to check yourself because sometimes you don't want to, but like literally when people come in a tizzy, and I'm always like the voice of reason, and that's how you have to be in my profession, and you have to show all sides, but a lot of times you're like, hey, don't focus on that negative stuff.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we got going on for us, and let's focus on this, and this is how we keep the ball moving, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is how we get to closure.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that same little logic, you know, and methods that I apply for for like work, I kind of apply to my own personal life, and it works.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I totally relate to that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as someone who's you know studied Ayurveda and and and these things about life and diet and how we, you know, show up for ourselves and others.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I sometimes am not applying what I can so readily apply to a client, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this idea about oh well, yeah, hold up that mirror, figure it out.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have the tools, get out of the patterns.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: So amazing.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you you're in this place.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of like I want to hear how you've you've done this sort of leveling, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: You you you're continuing to evolve in this this journey of high me.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, tell me what that's like, how how your aliveness and how you're you use the word intention, I think there, how is that showing up for you mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and even physically at this stage?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's it's all on the positive side, right?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, I don't take myself so serious.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I'm human and I have flaws, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, my goal is to always try to be the best version of myself, right?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, I I focus on what I think being the best version of myself is, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: But also doing it in a way that doesn't, isn't negative, like doesn't hurt other people, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can I just focus on what I can control, right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And again, focus on the positive things.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say there's some definitely some things though that I'm very proud of that I'm at the state that I am mentally, and I've done little things that actually have kind of shifted even that mental state.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So something is little, this is gonna sound silly, but like I started this regimen where I'm like I limit my consumption of like social media and web stuff, right?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this this correlates to me creating peace for myself, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I've noticed is like my energy has increased tremendously.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like since like literally since I started limiting my social media and web browsing, I mean, my my energy levels are literally out the roof.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm much more productive, I'm sleeping better, I have more energy to be physical, just physically active, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's amazing to actually realize that.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: So prior to that, like say months ago or last year or whatever, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: When you're alone, you tend to just, you know, you you kind of go into a hole sometimes and you just consume yourself with content.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I was all and I really wasn't doing a lot of things, to be honest, because I was in my cave.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't going out, I wasn't interacting and doing everything, but yet I was constantly on these tablets and browsing.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I always felt I was just tired, sleepy, fatigued, right?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Had no energy to go to the gym.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when I made that conscious decision to like, hey, start limiting this, part of it was because I was I didn't like what I was seeing online.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was seeing a lot of negative things, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't like to bring negativity into my sphere, so to speak, right?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to see it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I'm not, I don't want to know about certain things or I'm naive, I just don't want to bring, I don't bring, I don't entertain negativity, right?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll walk away from an instant.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: The minute I made that change, no lie.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was like back to normal.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I find myself doing, I might have 12 things for the day, and all 12 get done, and I'm still like, okay, what's next?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, alive.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what does it look like?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like how much what was the difference in terms of daily exposure to we'll just say the apps to keep it simple and compared to now, like hours-wise, or I probably would say I maybe a quarter of my day, I could say, was on the apps, yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: At least eight hours at a minimum of eight hours, because you know, like you're on it in the beginning of the morning, who email, you know, it starts with like who emailed me, but then it slowly goes to okay, who's on Instagram and what's going on there, right?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then next thing you know, it's all one dopamine hit after another, and it's yeah, it's highly addictive, and we don't realize how addictive it is.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I would like to share, because I I'm totally with you, like what we put into here into our heads in terms of what we're watching, what we're reading, you know, what we're subjecting ourselves to, that impacts our whole being, right?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a news junkie, think of it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening and absorbing that toxic paradigm of a freaky reality that's called the news, and you're you're imbuing, and and and I know in the US right now and the globe really, but the US is kind of like a focal point for heightened kind of challenges.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can choose to turn that stuff off.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: That does not mean you're absolving yourself of being a responsible citizen.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: You do not need to ingest all of that negativity day in and day out.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: I taught I was a news junkie for many years.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: The job that I was in was in related to the federal public service and all that stuff.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt I needed to know what was going on on the federal level politically.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do that work anymore.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I turned the news off a year and a half ago.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, that energy shift, the just the perception of the world and reality, I don't need to know what your president said today.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to know it doesn't, it doesn't impact me.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, some of the stuff does have implications, but largely most of it does not.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, if we're ingesting that stuff day in, day out, day in, day out, it's just toxic.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's toxic.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like eating fast food for every single meal.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, stop it.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a choice.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also add that it unconsciously, it also hinders possibly if you have certain ambitions, right?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think all of us have dreams and ambitions, like even as we get older, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are certain things that we're like, I would love to do that.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have so much energy and time now, I'm actually focused, hyper focused, on the things that actually matter.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, I always wanted to start my own firm.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I started a side consultancy.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on my third project with that, right?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's up and running and it's going gangbusters, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing very fairly well.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And even because of that project that I'm involved with, there might be another business opportunity, right?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm saying it not in a gloating way, but like the things that I really wanted to do, I'm actually able to do them.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually seeing the positive outcomes, which then also play into this world I'm trying to create for myself anyway, right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Which is stability, security, right?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's the world of potential.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and really, this this whole cosmic thing that we're living in, this world, is really one of abundance.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that can be really hard for us to get, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: The other reason that I think the apps and and the the news in particular are problematic is because they're so fear break, fear based.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the news is entirely fear based because that's what sells, right?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the apps, it's a different kind of fear.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's that fear of comparison, that fear of I'm not good enough.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of that that stuff that kind of gets twisted in our unconscious because of whatever we grew up in.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think what you're saying is really, really.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: powerful and if you know people can can even just take a small degree of of this and and and try to apply it a little bit like less time on the apps less less focus on all of that stuff called the news right it can it can really start to shift our energy and our perspective and and then we can start dreaming again and seeing potential it's gonna be us as individuals making these choices that changes the world not whoever's in the White House or whatever your head of government is it's us and we need to we need to figure that shit out yeah and I think also you have to look at it so I I believe I as an engineer because I'm also an engineer I I love the concepts of energy right and wasted energy right potential and wasted energy right and what I realize at this stage is that some things it's just wasted energy right it's not worth your time and effort right so don't pour into that right if something if you're not if it's not reciprocal in some way not that you always have to receive something right like but like if you there's no benefit if you don't feel good right after the fact if you're not gaining your it's not enriching your life in some way it's probably not worth your time and so whether it's social media whether it's dealing with specific individuals right or certain circumstances if it's wasted energy you probably it's probably just a waste of your time and you can never get that time back.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And just imagine what you can do with that time that you wasted right like I I did an experiment once and again this is not not the sidetrack but like there was a point I was on the apps and I one day looked at how many individuals I had communicated with and then I realized what what was the outcome for all these like conversations that I had do you know there was nothing like it was a waste and when I started counting the number of people and then that equated to number of hours and I was just like you know what I could have done in this like because you know all of us have things that we need to do in life in general right and we're always like there's not enough time in the day well when I did the math I'm like yeah there was actually enough time in the day but I'm over here being a bonehead wasting energy or pouring into something that's that's not pouring back into me.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: From a quantitative perspective I was like you've got to cut that yeah that very smart very smart assignment you gave yourself when you were talking about not feeling good and feeling off or I can't remember the language you use what I was feeling and thinking at that time is so many of us have forgotten what it feels like to actually feel good.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So feeling in that heavy negative way it becomes a pattern and that becomes normalized and and then it becomes a way of life.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this thing that become is a habit a habit becomes a pattern a pattern becomes a a personality and and so like going way back to earlier when you were making the comment about change and change can be hard it definitely can be hard.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I want these conversations and these examples to be inspirational to people so that they can say I want to get out of this whatever funk or whatever it is I might be in right now because you can and if you don't do it no one's going to do it for you.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Correct and and like just to even add to what you're saying it's it's like sometimes it's very easy to when you normal when things become normalized like negativity or you can even start thinking well it affects your your perspective on your value right like I'm not destined to have anything good happen for me right because of whatever reason right and the reality is like no like you are worth something right maybe people don't you know it's sad because people don't really give people their flowers right they don't show appreciation which is which is kind of sad and so you know it's so so you there's self-doubt like am I attractive to this am I not good enough for this or whatever right but but you are but it's again it's if you're around so much negativity it's like someone who never grew up with love.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: The minute love is really extended to them they wouldn't know how to receive it they wouldn't know how to act right they wouldn't even recognize it.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: They would get scared and nervous right and kind of maybe retract because in their life they all they know is this negativity and so for me that I I you have to but you have to be conscious about this right and you have to like consciously want to break that cycle it's scary because like it's like I don't know what's over there but what you have to keep in mind is that what's over there is better for you know in the long run right you got to play the long game always always always it's not about quick quick um results so tell tell us a little bit about how this is a section on how you're having fun i noticed your little friend walking around back there can we can we can we meet him or her we can try he's he's out oh having a good night there he is he he's he's out on the couch that that's Chase Brisket.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah beautiful obviously he brings you fun but how else are you having fun I'm having fun like I said by really pursuing things that make me happy I be recently became involved with a what's the name of this group it's it's like an older man's gentleman's prime timers I think is what it's called and they do retreats so they go to the museum they have potluck dinners once a month they they just do various activities and so I started joining things that I feel are more age appropriate for me right one it's good to see other people around my age you know who are kind of who I feel like maybe might be in similar situations right through life right that's similar just just you know we've experienced some stuff and so I I really try to like pour into that and again I just really take I'm really conscious of just like immersing my immersing myself into things that like I feel like really bring that peace and solace right so obviously I love animals.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that's animals natures anything that has to do with continuous learning like I pick up books like once a month I probably pick up a new book or so I like a physical book.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I so because it just forces me to like you know I I read a lot for my work but like this is different and and I feel like it's enriching and I feel like it's a lost art to actually read a book itself.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah the statistics are dire on on book reading yes so I just I mean that that's that's kind of like my my general just I I wouldn't say I have the most exciting life in the world but that's actually okay right totally it's okay it is and and and also you know sometimes I do treat myself right so I'm not a hermit 100% of the time there are times that I like so when I grew up though the one thing I I always take from my mom is that you have to have balance in life and so you know as as hard as I work at work as as much as I work on myself in terms of self-improvement I also realized like sometimes you just need to reward yourself and go out.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: But when I go out I don't go crazy right like I might go out for one or two hours right I don't really drink anymore just because of health reasons but like I'll go out and like I'll have my like not not cocktail but like uh grapefruit juice right that looks like a drink right um and I'll just enjoy the atmosphere but then I'm out of there right so I just do little little like micro fun experiences I'll treat myself to a day like so if I what I do now is I really focus like because I want to get a lot of things done just because I'm I have a lot of aspirations right but when I make headway on them I'm like okay if you finish like this business proposal that you said you were going to do you're gonna take a day trip up to Cincinnati or to Louisville.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: You have to you have to celebrate your victories right and yeah we forget that and and especially those like like you and I who are hyper achievers right like when you achieve one of your goals a little goal or a bigger goal celebrate it yes yes yes don't like don't burn yourself don't keep you know I know there's a lot on the plate but like if I get half of it done I'm winning yeah let's go celebrate right love that great so you're you've got some fun going on in your life so this has been exciting you've shared so much I would like to sort of start to wrap it up with your your thoughts on wisdom and so at this stage clearly you've been doing a lot right and so what is something that you might want to share with a viewer listener sage advice words of wisdom anything that you think would be helpful for someone to hear who might be out there maybe feeling a little bit isolated disconnected at a at a turning point or you know a crossroads where they're they're not really sure about what's next one I would say embrace getting older you know sometimes we have some people in our age bracket who they have the Peter Pan syndrome right like they were used to for years like being center of attention and being at like say the little parties or whatever right at a certain point one you got to let the it's time for the next generation right you move on right and it's okay to move on and also getting older isn't like a negative thing I mean I I like I was saying in the in the opening I feel like mentally I'm at my prime because I can honestly say I know with certainty what I want.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not insecure like I have flaws right but I embrace my flaws right and it is what it is right and I don't let things bother me right I I would say the other thing is that a lot of people don't realize that you as an individual you have so much more control over things in life than you actually even recognize and the truth is nothing goes according to plan.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know people put stuff on Facebook like or or even like LinkedIn like their life is is great.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: No it's not great everyone has their challenges right I think the thing that's key to like remember is that the way that you respond or like you taking proactive like measures or actions can really change those outcomes.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds corny but like when we were younger my mom would always be like achieve and you believe and you can achieve right and the reality is like yes I mean we know that there's not all good in the world right however the mind is like the most powerful thing in the world if anything that's the most powerful muscle we have it's stronger than even just you lifting every day and whatever you believe and conceive if you put your head you your mind to you can you can literally do it.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know the other thing I would say is and especially I for me this is important because I do try to also be like a role model for people that look like me because a lot of times in whether it's society or even like gay society we don't always feel comfortable in those spaces right and sometimes you know the thing I would want to say to people that are like persons of color is like despite your upbringing right don't let that hold you back right like one you're worthy of love you're worthy of success right and it's not even so much that like look at me type of thing but it's like you have to really want to like change that dynamic right like when I was younger the one thing I always wanted to do was again I mentioned like I didn't want to be a statistic because everybody around me was a statistic.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I consciously I didn't know what was on that other side right but I knew that if I went on that other side I had a better shot than staying where I was so sometimes being stagnant and being around like you have to get out of there.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to physically remove yourself from that situation.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's scary but like I really feel like if you just take a chance because you're taking a chance on yourself and you're worth the investment.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone you're all worth the investment in yourself.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said earlier nobody's gonna do it for you.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna invest in you nobody's gonna pour into you so you have no you kind of have no option but to invest in yourself right but I think that like regardless of your upbringing like you if you what you put in is what you're gonna get out you know and so though those would be like I I think the things that I would probably harp on I would also you know tell people to recognize that life is really short.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know I've I've lost so many friends you know and like and you never think that it's gonna happen that quick right so you life is short so you got to make the most of it that so you have to you know and and then lastly I would say is just like in terms of you coming into your own at some point you're gonna hit that fork in the roll and you really got to deal with the past trauma and really understand those triggers right like there's nothing more powerful than like self understanding self-awareness maybe right it's gonna help you personally grow it's gonna help you achieve whatever success that you that you you know ambitions that you have right and the downside is like if you don't address this it's eventually it's gonna come out or manifest in some other ways.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes for example especially gay men they they will go from one relationship to the next to the next right and it's kind of like they're seeking well this didn't work so you know hopefully they're looking for the right person but I think it's not about the other person that's gonna complete you right it's you know what I mean like like you're gonna do the same thing yeah as before right the common denominator is you so you need to resolve whatever issue you have and then if you start something with someone else don't you know you can start with a clean slate right yeah some of the things those are really wonderful shares and and my hope for for having these conversations is that people will hear something that will just spark some curiosity of making a a change right like I think ultimately yes we're all responsible for our own well beings and and it's that can be a hard pill to swallow for some of us if we've been in in the in the game of blaming others blaming government blaming our parents blaming that partner who was bad okay let's move on you know how are you going to show up for yourself so I want to I want to really thank you for for sharing these inspiring and thoughtful words and it's it's just been really really great having having you here thank you thanks again for those of you who are interested in finding out more about what we're doing here we have the Substack account where there's some pros, some writing some essays there'll be other things there too that you can indulge in and comment on and grow community around and then we also have our YouTube page where you'll see the video of if you're listening the video element of of these interviews and other supporting videos along the way to to help to inform and grow community and inspire us in our wisdom years.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again Jaime for being here it's been great.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me thank you to our guests today and thank you for listening if what you heard landed with you if you felt seen heard inspired to make a shift want to hear about it get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this share it with them please this community grows when we show up for each other.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can find more essays on these topics reflections and such at our Substack account watch for other content on our YouTube channel and stay connected to us through our school platform.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is where we engage and are building our community remember the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end for many of us it's the moment life finally begins to open up you're not alone in this we're in it together I'll see you next time in the Wisdom