Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / Nine Secrets for Effective Sales Copy with Sean McCool

Transcript

Nine Secrets for Effective Sales Copy with Sean McCool · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:00
  3, 10, 1, 0, ignition, liftoff,
• 0:08
  Ending small business failure.
• 0:11
  Welcome to the Small Biz Chat podcast with a number 1 small business expert Melinda Emerson.
• 0:17
  Bolinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 0:21
  you need to succeed and live the life you've dream of.
• 0:25
  Now here's the small Biz lady herself.
• 0:29
  Melinda Emerson.
• 0:31
  Hi, everybody.
• 0:31
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small Biz lady, and come to small fish chat here on small fish chat
• 0:37
  live.
• 0:37
  It is our goal to help you succeed as your own boss, and we never failed to disappoint.
• 0:42
  So listen.
• 0:43
  Now we're gonna be switching gears a little bit and talking about traffic and how to turn your
• 0:49
  traffic into convergence to grow your small business.
• 0:52
  And we're gonna be talking right now with DigitalStrages, Sean McCool, and he is a
• 0:58
  terrific expert.
• 0:59
  But before we go to him, I just wanna remind everybody We are streaming live everywhere.
• 1:03
  We're streaming live on Twitter, on Facebook, on YouTube.
• 1:07
  Please give us a comment.
• 1:08
  Please share this broadcast.
• 1:10
  We want more people to get this information so they can take their business to the next level.
• 1:14
  And don't forget to check out the small fish chat podcast.
• 1:17
  I now have all of these great interviews other places where you can hear them on the internet.
• 1:22
  So don't forget to check us out.
• 1:24
  And I know we love our Twitter peeps, so special love out to my Twitter people Love
• 1:29
  y'all for real.
• 1:30
  Alright.
• 1:31
  Now back to my guest.
• 1:32
  We are tie it's time for us to talk about making big money with your web site, which is
• 1:38
  why I invited my guest Sean McCool to join us here on Small Bench Chat Live.
• 1:43
  Sean is the founder of Sean McCool Consulting.
• 1:45
  He has more than 3 decades of experience creating sales and marketing campaigns that
• 1:50
  convert.
• 1:50
  He brings his award winning sales and copywriting background into the corporate
• 1:55
  digital marketing arena, and he advises companies big and small on how to implement
• 2:01
  high performing conversion based digital marketing strategies and tactics.
• 2:05
  I dare any of you
• 2:05
  guys to say that ten times back.
• 2:06
  Anyway, Sean McCool.
• 2:11
  Thank you so much for being here with us.
• 2:14
  Hey.
• 2:14
  It's a pleasure to be here.
• 2:15
  I'm I'm a little nervous about following Vanessa.
• 2:18
  That's a that's a tough act to follow.
• 2:20
  So, Yeah.
• 2:21
  She's my best.
• 2:22
  Jared straight program.
• 2:23
  Right?
• 2:23
  She's like, Bijay.
• 2:25
  Yeah.
• 2:26
  Bijay's not a bad b word.
• 2:27
  Isn't it?
• 2:27
  Did you hear her?
• 2:28
  She's like
• 2:29
  Yeah.
• 2:29
  So I'm I'm hoping I'm hoping I can help people make money where she helps them keep and grow
• 2:34
  it.
• 2:34
  Right?
• 2:35
  Exactly.
• 2:35
  You Alright.
• 2:36
  My theme here.
• 2:37
  You know, you figured out how
• 2:38
  I segmented you guys so that you would fall one one another.
• 2:41
  Right?
• 2:41
  Let's do it.
• 2:42
  So so let's talk about generating money online.
• 2:46
  Like, what is the best way to do because that's what everybody trying to figure out.
• 2:51
  Yeah.
• 2:51
  I mean, that's a huge question.
• 2:53
  Right?
• 2:54
  How you generate money online?
• 2:55
  I mean, it's, like you said, question everybody wants to know.
• 2:57
  And there's so many facets to it.
• 2:59
  I think we could probably start breaking it down a little bit.
• 3:02
  So, I mean, really, there's only three ways there's only 3 components to any marketing
• 3:07
  campaign.
• 3:08
  So no matter and it doesn't matter if it's online or offline, to be honest.
• 3:11
  So those 3 components are the copy.
• 3:13
  So that that's your marketing message, your offer.
• 3:16
  That's what you're trying to get people to do or take action on.
• 3:19
  And then the audience, that's where the traffic is coming from.
• 3:22
  So those are kind of the big three pieces So we can dive into those individually if you want
• 3:26
  real quick.
• 3:27
  Absolutely.
• 3:28
  Hit it for me.
• 3:28
  Yes.
• 3:29
  Alright.
• 3:29
  So so let's start with copy because that may be a weird word to some people.
• 3:33
  So copy is simply the words you use in your marketing campaigns.
• 3:36
  I don't care if it's a sales presentation, a brochure, your websites, anything you use a
• 3:42
  podcast.
• 3:42
  Like, if your copy is kind of the words behind your marketing, right, and and the more
• 3:47
  structured it is, that's why we call it copywriting.
• 3:49
  It's just a it's just a word.
• 3:51
  But here, I'm about to drop a bomb.
• 3:52
  You ready for this, Melinda?
• 3:53
  I'm ready.
• 3:54
  Alright.
• 3:55
  We all everybody, if we use the English language, we all All we get is 26 letters and
• 4:00
  10 numbers to make our marketing statement.
• 4:03
  Right?
• 4:04
  Now that magic is how we arrange those letters into words, into sentences, into paragraphs,
• 4:10
  into what we're talking about, and what we're the offers we're making to people.
• 4:14
  So all got the same raw materials to work with.
• 4:17
  The question is how are we gonna use them to get to make people offers?
• 4:21
  And that's the second part of any campaign is the offer.
• 4:24
  So the offer is, what do you want your reader or viewer or listener to do next?
• 4:29
  Right?
• 4:29
  So my clients, I teach my clients to think of an offer as an invitation.
• 4:33
  Like, not some you're not telling people what to do.
• 4:36
  You're inviting them into your world, and you need to respect that because these are real
• 4:41
  people with real problems and you've got real solutions that can help them.
• 4:44
  So you wanna you wanna honor that relationship.
• 4:47
  You wanna pay respect to that relationship.
• 4:49
  So make it an invitation and not at telling them what to do.
• 4:52
  We all hate those kind of used car salesmen screaming at you to come down to their lot
• 4:58
  instead of inviting you into their world.
• 5:00
  Right.
• 5:00
  And then the final piece of that is the audience.
• 5:03
  And this is some people call it traffic.
• 5:05
  Some people call it the list, you know, if you're talking about an email list, but to me,
• 5:09
  it's just an audience.
• 5:10
  It's who are you who are you broadcasting your message to in whatever format.
• 5:14
  And one thing you need to understand about the audience is your audience has built in desires.
• 5:20
  You're never gonna be able to create desire in your audience.
• 5:25
  What you have to do instead is you have to tap into the desire that they already have and make
• 5:30
  your your offer match the existing desire.
• 5:34
  So that's the big three parts of of any marketing campaign.
• 5:38
  So Those are the 3 components.
• 5:42
  Mhmm.
• 5:42
  But but writing copy that converts can really be a challenge for people I know myself.
• 5:48
  I I write a blog for you.
• 5:50
  I'll write a book for you.
• 5:51
  But writing sales copy like a sales email is like I can't I don't feel like I have those
• 5:58
  skills as a mere mortal.
• 5:59
  So can you tell us about, like, If you're if you're getting started writing some sales
• 6:04
  emails and stuff, what are some tips you can give people?
• 6:08
  Yeah.
• 6:08
  So one of my tips is always use templates or swipe files.
• 6:12
  Some people call them swipe files.
• 6:13
  Some people call them templates.
• 6:14
  Basically, it's it's starting with something So you're not just staring at a blank page because
• 6:18
  that blank page, especially when you think you're supposed to be selling something.
• 6:22
  Also, like I said before, like, when you you think of it as an invitation instead of trying
• 6:26
  to get them to do something, it really takes a lot of pressure off.
• 6:30
  You know, it's like, hey.
• 6:32
  This is what we got.
• 6:33
  If you like it, here it is.
• 6:34
  So first of all, just kinda think about being more making it more of an invitation.
• 6:39
  But aside from that, then use templates, use swipe files, So imagine you go into the gym and
• 6:45
  you go to the gym with a workout like a planned out.
• 6:48
  Here's what I'm gonna do first, set 1, set 2, set 3, this exercise, this many reps, things
• 6:53
  like that.
• 6:53
  That's not the whole workout, but it's it's the outline of the workout that you're gonna be
• 6:57
  doing.
• 6:57
  You still gotta put in the work.
• 6:58
  You still gotta lift the weights and all that.
• 7:00
  Having a template or a swipe file is the same way.
• 7:02
  It gives you an outline to start with so that you know where you're going and you're not
• 7:06
  wasting a bunch of time staring at blank pages.
• 7:09
  So I've got 3 different types of templates that I like to give my clients that my clients like
• 7:13
  to work with, and I'd love to go through those with you.
• 7:16
  Sure.
• 7:17
  Sure.
• 7:17
  Give us just the snippet.
• 7:18
  Right?
• 7:19
  I need to clip those versions.
• 7:20
  Right.
• 7:21
  So the first type is what I call a short story narrative.
• 7:24
  So think of a short story, a 3 act play, something like that.
• 7:27
  An example might be, and I'll give you 3 quick bullet points on that.
• 7:30
  So this is the problem our clients have.
• 7:33
  We help them define it like this.
• 7:35
  We help them solve it like this.
• 7:37
  So if you just start with those three bullet points on your blank document and then you
• 7:41
  start filling in, you'll have a pretty good email or sales, you know, piece of sales
• 7:46
  material that you could send out to people because you're you're just walking people to
• 7:49
  the process.
• 7:50
  So that's one.
• 7:50
  It's called I call it a short story narrative.
• 7:53
  Number 2 is what I call 1 of the 3 r's.
• 7:55
  Now, Melody, your your world class at this, like you're doing this all the time, and that
• 7:59
  is to reformat other content.
• 8:02
  So I know you like to take a lot of your stuff and then put it into a blog and, you know, add
• 8:06
  some stuff here and there, but you're basically just reformatting some other stuff.
• 8:10
  That's a great way to do it.
• 8:11
  And a lot of people are like, well, Sean, that's content.
• 8:13
  That's not sales.
• 8:14
  But I think my personal opinion and and some of the direct response, like die hards, would
• 8:19
  probably you know, hang me out to drive for this, but I think content and sales copy are
• 8:25
  are blurring every day.
• 8:26
  And I think the most effective sales copy is a lot more like content and the best content is a
• 8:32
  lot more like sales copy.
• 8:33
  Like, it's it's really coming together.
• 8:36
  Because it needs to provide value.
• 8:38
  It needs to provide information, proof, a lot of different things.
• 8:42
  And then the the final thing is what I call a persuasion map.
• 8:45
  Again, this is just a kinda like if you had a map of the if you're going on a hike and you
• 8:49
  you wanted an overlay of the trail, it's not the trail itself, but it kinda gives you a, you
• 8:53
  know, you know, which way to turn and about when to turn.
• 8:56
  So the persuasion map that I like to use that's stood the test of time is called PAS problem
• 9:02
  agitate solution.
• 9:03
  So you present the problem your prospect feels.
• 9:05
  That's the problem.
• 9:06
  Then you agitate that problem a little bit.
• 9:08
  You you kinda poke at the problem until they can really feel it.
• 9:12
  Remind them of kinda what that feels like, and then you present your solution to that
• 9:17
  agitation.
• 9:18
  And if you do that well, they'll take whatever solution you've got.
• 9:22
  So you gotta poke the paint a little bit.
• 9:24
  And then Got a poke it up.
• 9:25
  Gotta poke the bear.
• 9:26
  Right.
• 9:26
  You gotta poke the paint and say, but wait.
• 9:28
  I can help.
• 9:29
  Right?
• 9:30
  That that's how you do it.
• 9:31
  Right?
• 9:31
  Absolutely.
• 9:32
  So listen.
• 9:33
  I wanna ask you one more question before we go to break.
• 9:37
  What are some of the best ways to track conversion?
• 9:41
  Cause I know and what is a conversion, right, because that's part of it too.
• 9:44
  You have to define what conversions even are.
• 9:46
  Yeah.
• 9:47
  So that's that's a, again, it's a big question.
• 9:49
  And and as the as our online worlds and offline worlds and social media and websites and
• 9:54
  everything starts entangling Like, these questions get deeper and deeper and bigger and
• 9:59
  bigger.
• 10:00
  But, basically, I would say to me, a conversion is is anything where you can get your client to
• 10:06
  intentionally take the next step.
• 10:08
  Now that might be just to comment on a blog post.
• 10:11
  That might be to retweet a Twitter tweet That's that's hard to say.
• 10:16
  You know, to comment on a Facebook post to reply to an email, to click a link in an email.
• 10:21
  Like, there's there's literally dozens dozens of of conversion actions, and you need to be
• 10:27
  clear about what you want to track.
• 10:29
  First of all, it's not always a sale.
• 10:31
  You know, sometimes you just need to move pro people further down the relationship so that a
• 10:36
  sale could be made later.
• 10:37
  It doesn't have to be made day 1.
• 10:39
  So some of the tools that are available and there's lots of tools, but for instance,
• 10:43
  there's there's tools like, do you wanna go high end?
• 10:46
  There's tools like wicked reports.
• 10:47
  They can literally track your social media post, your YouTube channel.
• 10:53
  You like, just anything you wanna dump in there, they can track all of that social
• 10:57
  organic engagement along with your sales engagement, and you can really get a good
• 11:02
  picture of over time where you you might think that a sales letter is doing all the work, but
• 11:07
  actually it's this little organic video you got going over here.
• 11:11
  Okay.
• 11:12
  That is getting people interested enough to start reading your sales letter.
• 11:15
  So so finding those types of tools are really good for tracking conversions.
• 11:21
  And sometimes you just need a a a very base basic Excel spreadsheet to track your email and
• 11:26
  open rates and see, hey.
• 11:28
  That one's really not doing well in the follow-up sequence.
• 11:30
  Should probably change the subject line because nobody's opening that one, but they're opening
• 11:34
  the one before and after
• 11:35
  it.
• 11:35
  So there's there's a lot of there's a lot of ways to do that, and it's just it it's really
• 11:39
  just kinda start thinking about common sense and then looking for good tools.
• 11:42
  Alright.
• 11:43
  Well, I'm gonna put a pin in that.
• 11:44
  When we come back, we're gonna talk even more about this.
• 11:47
  And about some sales funnels too.
• 11:49
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small business lady, and we will be right back.
• 11:55
  Hi, everybody.
• 11:55
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady, and I wanna invite you to enter the small biz chat
• 12:00
  podcast giveaway contest for the next 30 days starting today You'll have the chance to win
• 12:05
  amazing prizes if you subscribe to the podcast.
• 12:09
  All you need to do is take a screenshot after you subscribe to the small business chat
• 12:13
  podcast and tag me, smallbiz lady on Twitter or Instagram.
• 12:17
  Once a week, I'll select a winner, and you have a chance to win one of my autograph books
• 12:21
  become your own boss in 12 months or fix your business, or you might even get a chance to win
• 12:26
  one of my limited edition small business chat podcast t shirts.
• 12:30
  Don't delay.
• 12:31
  So scribe to the small biz chat podcast today.
• 12:36
  Hi, everybody.
• 12:36
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady, and we are live with my guest Sean McCool.
• 12:41
  And he's talking to us about traffic and convergence and everything in between.
• 12:46
  So let's get right back to him.
• 12:48
  Sean, tell me about how do you develop irresistible headlines?
• 12:53
  That's like the hardest thing for me.
• 12:55
  I'll write a great article, and I'll struggle with what to call it to give people click on it
• 12:59
  to open it.
• 12:59
  Can you give us a little bit of tips on that?
• 13:02
  Yeah.
• 13:02
  I can I can give you that?
• 13:03
  So, again, go back to kinda swipe files and templates.
• 13:05
  I'll give you what I call my IL 9 secret.
• 13:08
  So the IL 9 secret is in most grocery stores now, there's a magazine aisle.
• 13:15
  And if you go down, like, physical magazines, remember those, they still exist.
• 13:18
  You know, they're not they're not like Bigfoot.
• 13:19
  They actually do still exist.
• 13:21
  If you go down and look at the the magazine covers, they'll have the blurbs on there.
• 13:25
  You can look both in your industry and then outside your industry.
• 13:29
  And those headline blurbs that are on the covers of magazines are are written by some of
• 13:33
  the world's best copywriters.
• 13:35
  So you grab 3, 4, 5 of those magazines, both in your niche and outside of your niche to get
• 13:40
  some ideas.
• 13:41
  So you might see one that says, you know, 13 ways to lose £50 this summer.
• 13:46
  So what you do is you start thinking about based on your product or your service, what
• 13:50
  numbers would I need to change?
• 13:52
  What's the big goal that my clients want?
• 13:54
  And I start playing with that formula x ways to lose or to get x result with, you know, in y
• 14:02
  time, you know, something like that.
• 14:04
  So you just kinda use those as as starters And again, it it's just it's so much easier when
• 14:09
  you have something to work with instead of trying to stare at a blank page and just, like,
• 14:13
  just stare at it.
• 14:14
  So what I do is I have magazines.
• 14:16
  I actually subscribe to them and have them come to the house.
• 14:18
  And I will read the magazines, but then what I'll do is every month, I'll off the cover, and
• 14:23
  I put them in a in a file folder and a file cabinet, and then that I know that's old
• 14:26
  school.
• 14:26
  But then when I'm ready to write, I'll just lay a couple of them out.
• 14:30
  I'll look at them at the on the desk, and I'll kinda rearrange, pick some stuff.
• 14:33
  And voila, that's that's a as good a way as any to to get the a really good headline.
• 14:39
  I like that.
• 14:40
  I like that.
• 14:41
  Now tell me about sales funnels.
• 14:44
  I know that, you know, once you get this customer you get somebody to give you their
• 14:48
  email address, what should you be doing to sort of like nurture the relationship with them?
• 14:55
  Yeah.
• 14:55
  So that's a good great question.
• 14:57
  So if it's a if it's a sales funnel where you've given them something like an opt in or a
• 15:00
  free report or something like that, to get them to give you the email, then what I would
• 15:05
  encourage you to do is the first 2, 3, 4, maybe up to 5 emails depending on on what kind of
• 15:11
  report they got or video they got or maybe you sent them a podcast episode is I wouldn't I
• 15:17
  would help them consume that information.
• 15:20
  And then I would help them take action on that information so that they're actually getting
• 15:25
  value from the free thing that you gave them in exchange for the email.
• 15:28
  Then you've earned the right to sell them the next thing.
• 15:32
  But, honestly, you don't have the right, in my opinion, to try to sell them something else if
• 15:37
  what they got did even really help them.
• 15:39
  And that that could be on them, and it could be on you.
• 15:41
  But as as people who provide a service, whether that's a product or a service, We have a
• 15:47
  responsibility to our people to serve them and part of service is making sure they take action
• 15:54
  even in spite of themselves sometimes.
• 15:56
  So the first thing I would do is try to get them to consume and walk them through whatever
• 16:01
  it is they signed up for.
• 16:03
  Got it.
• 16:03
  So now what if I want to hire a professional copywriter to to develop a sales phone for me.
• 16:11
  And they do and then my sales funnel doesn't convert.
• 16:16
  Yeah.
• 16:16
  What kinda, like, is there a money back guarantee in your industry?
• 16:20
  Like, what, like, what do I how do I how do I resolve this?
• 16:24
  Because I've actually had this experience in my own business several times, but I think
• 16:28
  sometimes there's there's there's a lot of snake oil salesmen out here in every street.
• 16:32
  And so I kinda wanted to know what are the right questions and things you should be asking
• 16:36
  someone even before you engage them so that maybe, you know, I mean, certainly everything
• 16:41
  everybody writes doesn't convert.
• 16:43
  Right?
• 16:43
  But how do you kinda test things a little bit better so that you don't completely burn?
• 16:48
  Yeah.
• 16:48
  So first thing I would say, you know, from the copywriter side is that copywriting's a lot
• 16:53
  like anything else, sales, baseball.
• 16:56
  You're probably gonna get 1 out of 3 to get a base hit and probably 1 out of 5, maybe worse,
• 17:03
  is gonna be like a home run.
• 17:04
  Like, it takes work to get these and its investment just like any other anything else.
• 17:09
  Now I'm not supposed to say that as a copywriter.
• 17:11
  I'm supposed to say that, like, everything, you know, is amazing, and then we just put these
• 17:14
  fancy formulas together and poof.
• 17:16
  You're a
• 17:16
  $50,000,000 company and all that, but that's not how that's not how it works.
• 17:20
  Like, it takes effort.
• 17:22
  So I think the number one thing is is to find a copywriter that that you can see some samples
• 17:27
  from that you have a good relationship with.
• 17:31
  They don't just take an order from you to write something.
• 17:33
  They ask you a lot of questions back.
• 17:35
  They push back a little bit, and they wanna they they really dig in and ask good questions
• 17:40
  about your product.
• 17:41
  Maybe questions that you've never thought to ask.
• 17:43
  That's a really good sign.
• 17:45
  If they can start tomorrow, that's probably not a good sign.
• 17:48
  Just like a like a construct contractor, you know, construction contractor.
• 17:51
  You don't want the guy that can start tomorrow.
• 17:53
  Which is the reason he can start tomorrow because he doesn't have work.
• 17:58
  Most of the good copywriters will be booked out several weeks, if not several months in
• 18:03
  advance.
• 18:03
  Okay.
• 18:04
  And So just set really clear expectations, ask the question, hey.
• 18:09
  Do you offer money back guarantee?
• 18:11
  Most of them will not because it is a lot of work to write us write a piece of sales copy,
• 18:15
  depending on what it is.
• 18:17
  But you can set expectations on what you would like to have happen.
• 18:22
  And if they agree or don't agree, then, you know, just set clear expectations like any
• 18:26
  other relationship.
• 18:27
  Okay.
• 18:28
  Okay.
• 18:28
  I think that's more than fair.
• 18:30
  Alright, Sean.
• 18:31
  What is your favorite business app?
• 18:33
  Yeah.
• 18:34
  I'm gonna go with rev, r e v.
• 18:36
  It's a transcribing service.
• 18:38
  One thing that peep most people don't know about it is you can the app on your phone, you
• 18:41
  can actually record an audio, like, while you're driving, you got an idea.
• 18:45
  You're walking the dog.
• 18:46
  And then that can just immediately be transcribed.
• 18:48
  It's a great way to do quick blog posts, things like that.
• 18:52
  So Rev.
• 18:53
  I've used Rev before.
• 18:54
  I really, really like Rev.
• 18:56
  That's actually a really good one.
• 18:58
  What is your favorite old school marketing tip?
• 19:02
  Wow.
• 19:02
  Old school marketing tip.
• 19:04
  Oh, school.
• 19:06
  And I
• 19:07
  kinda gave away my best one with with looking at the magazine covers.
• 19:11
  But it's probably just it's probably swipe file and to collect.
• 19:15
  Like, if you're flying on the on the plane and you got Sky Mall magazine, you see a good ad in
• 19:20
  there, rip it out.
• 19:20
  If you got take a screenshot of it with your phone.
• 19:23
  You know, take a picture with your phone, save it in the notes.
• 19:25
  That that that's just a swipe file is is by far the best thing you could be doing.
• 19:30
  I'm I'm a big fan of swipe files.
• 19:32
  I I believe that successfully use clues everywhere.
• 19:35
  So rather than trying to figure it out, copy somebody else's great idea.
• 19:41
  That's for sure.
• 19:41
  Or should I say improve upon?
• 19:43
  Improvement.
• 19:44
  Yes.
• 19:44
  Great idea.
• 19:46
  Share your favorite podcast.
• 19:49
  Oh, man.
• 19:49
  Is is it wrong if I plug my own?
• 19:52
  It's a little pamphlet, but I'll let you do it.
• 19:54
  If you feel so compelled, no.
• 19:57
  Yeah.
• 19:58
  So, yeah, persuasion by the pint.
• 20:00
  So we talk about marketing and influence and persuasion while having beer.
• 20:04
  So Okay.
• 20:05
  So it's it's it's a lot of fun.
• 20:07
  Yeah.
• 20:07
  So that's that's my shameless plug.
• 20:10
  Okay.
• 20:10
  Persuasion behind the pint.
• 20:12
  Alright.
• 20:12
  Alright.
• 20:14
  I think the mission of small business chat is to end small business failure while helping you
• 20:19
  succeed as your own boss.
• 20:20
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small bus lady.
• 20:23
  Until next time, remember this.
• 20:24
  You never lose in business.
• 20:26
  Either you win or you learn.
• 20:28
  Good night, everybody.
• 20:31
  Thank you for listening to the Small Biz Chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 20:36
  For more resources and small business success strategies, visit succeed as your own boss.com.
• 20:42
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcast and join us next Wednesday.