Transcript

Sharri | 16 January · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good Evening. Welcome to the show.
0:09
Speaker 3: Well, massive breaking news as we speak. The hostage deal
0:13
Speaker 3: is now in disarray. I've got the latest news for
0:17
Speaker 3: you right now. I've just had confirmation from Israeli Prime
0:20
Speaker 3: Minister Benjaminette and Yahoo's office that the deal is currently
0:24
Speaker 3: not on the table because her Musk is pulling last
0:27
Speaker 3: minute stunts. I'll bring you that full detail and full
0:30
Speaker 3: analysis tonight with expert commentary. I've also got on the
0:33
Speaker 3: show family members of current hostages. Throughout the program, will
0:37
Speaker 3: bring you the news as it happens and the ins
0:40
Speaker 3: and outs of this breaking news in just a moment.
0:43
Speaker 3: Also tonight, Deputy Liberal Leader Susan Lay has launched an
0:46
Speaker 3: internal investigation into why she failed to declare accommodation meals
0:52
Speaker 3: and transport funded by the Palestinian Authority. My exclusive story
0:58
Speaker 3: coming up, but first let's get into this breaking news.
1:01
Speaker 3: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahoo has released a statement saying
1:06
Speaker 3: that Hermas is backing out of elements.
1:09
Speaker 2: Of the hostage deal.
1:10
Speaker 3: This deal was celebrated globally today and it's now in disarray.
1:16
Speaker 3: It faces a major stumbling point. The deal was scheduled
1:19
Speaker 3: to be put to the Israeli Cabinet right now as
1:22
Speaker 3: we speak eleven am local time in Israel.
1:26
Speaker 2: But now the cabinet.
1:27
Speaker 3: Will not meet to vote on the deal until Hermas
1:30
Speaker 3: agrees to all existing elements. The Israeli Prime Minister's Office
1:35
Speaker 3: has released a statement tonight saying Hamas is backing out
1:39
Speaker 3: of the explicit understandings agreed upon with the mediators and
1:44
Speaker 3: Israel in a last minute blackmail attempt. Israel will not
1:49
Speaker 3: set a date for a cabinet and government meeting until
1:52
Speaker 3: the Mediators announce that Hermas has approved all the details
1:57
Speaker 3: of the agreement. I understand, and I've got this first
2:00
Speaker 3: hand from the Prime Minister's Office that also playing into
2:04
Speaker 3: this decision was that there was rocket fire from Hamas
2:09
Speaker 3: in Gaza, both last night in Israel and this morning.
2:13
Speaker 3: This is not in the spirit of a ceasefire deal
2:17
Speaker 3: and a hostage release agreement, so that rocket fire has
2:20
Speaker 3: also played into this move. Now, this shouldn't be a surprise.
2:25
Speaker 3: Hamas is a terrorist group.
2:27
Speaker 2: It's a bad.
2:27
Speaker 3: Faith negotiator, a bad faith actor. Israel has had this
2:32
Speaker 3: very deal on the table since May twenty twenty four
2:35
Speaker 3: and Hamas only came to the negotiating table at the
2:39
Speaker 3: eleventh hour because Donald Trump said he'd unleash Hell. Now,
2:45
Speaker 3: we had been expecting to hear from Bedroom nettin Yahoo
2:48
Speaker 3: after Cabinet met.
2:49
Speaker 2: That would have been in the next couple of hours.
2:52
Speaker 3: But this is a huge delay now and it would
2:54
Speaker 3: be a massive disappointment for the family members of hostages
2:58
Speaker 3: who've now been held in Gaza for four hundred and
3:02
Speaker 3: sixty seven days. Now, while there is a pause in
3:06
Speaker 3: the deal, that could still go ahead if Hermas agrees
3:11
Speaker 3: to well stop firing rockets and agrees to the existing
3:16
Speaker 3: points on the table. If Hermas does that, if this
3:19
Speaker 3: deal is back on the table. This is how it
3:22
Speaker 3: will play out. There'll be three hostages, expected to be women,
3:26
Speaker 3: who'll be released this Sunday. Then seven days later there'll
3:30
Speaker 3: be another four hostages released, so that's seven days in
3:34
Speaker 3: between hostages. After that, three hostages will be released every
3:39
Speaker 3: seven days, and then after nearly six weeks there'll be
3:43
Speaker 3: fourteen hostages freed. So in total, in this first stage
3:47
Speaker 3: of the deal, that would be thirty three hostages released,
3:51
Speaker 3: and we know sadly.
3:52
Speaker 2: That not all are alive.
3:55
Speaker 3: For some families, there would be beautiful reunions with their
3:58
Speaker 3: loved ones, but for others, they'd be welcoming home dead bodies. Now,
4:05
Speaker 3: this is one of the sticking points currently of the negotiation.
4:08
Speaker 3: This is why the hostage deal is up in the air,
4:11
Speaker 3: because Israel was meant to have veto power on all
4:16
Speaker 3: of the hardened terrorists that would have been released from
4:21
Speaker 3: their own prisons. So in Israeli prisons there are Palestinian
4:24
Speaker 3: criminals and terrorists for the thirty three humanitarian hostages that
4:30
Speaker 3: Hamas was releasing, and these are women and children.
4:33
Speaker 2: Israel was going to have to release or we'll have
4:35
Speaker 2: to release.
4:36
Speaker 3: One thousand Palestinian criminals from Israeli prisons, and that includes
4:42
Speaker 3: at least two hundred and fifty terrorists who are said
4:46
Speaker 3: to have.
4:46
Speaker 2: Had blood on their hands.
4:48
Speaker 3: Now, Israel has insisted in these negotiations on having the
4:53
Speaker 3: veto power over which terrorists are released.
4:57
Speaker 2: Which of the worst terrorists I released.
5:00
Speaker 3: Her mask at this late hour, is now insisting on
5:03
Speaker 3: trying to dictate who'll be released from Israeli prisons. Even then,
5:08
Speaker 3: Israel has said they're not going to free them into Gaza,
5:12
Speaker 3: that they would want the hardened criminals who are serving
5:15
Speaker 3: life sentences if they are released to be sent to
5:18
Speaker 3: a third country sent overseas. Now, just this evening on
5:22
Speaker 3: Sky on Chris Kenny's program, Liberal MP Julian Lisa said
5:26
Speaker 3: that he wants a guarantee from Anthony Alberizi that Australia
5:31
Speaker 3: won't be taking in these hardened Palestinian criminals.
5:36
Speaker 2: Have a look.
5:37
Speaker 4: So I think the Prime Minister has to make it
5:39
Speaker 4: very clear because those freed Palestinian prisoners, many of whom
5:42
Speaker 4: have committed violent crimes, are due to be sent to
5:44
Speaker 4: a third country. And I want the Prime Minister to
5:47
Speaker 4: guarantee to all Australians that he will not bring any
5:50
Speaker 4: Palestinian prisoner who spent time in Israeli jail to Australia
5:54
Speaker 4: because that will do nothing to make this country safer
5:56
Speaker 4: for all Australians.
5:58
Speaker 3: It's a very important point and we do as Australians,
6:01
Speaker 3: need that guarantee from the Prime Minister. Now, this deal,
6:05
Speaker 3: if it does go ahead, and we expect ultimately it
6:08
Speaker 3: probably will given Trump has threatened to unleash Hell. This
6:12
Speaker 3: is a deal with the devil. It's far from what
6:14
Speaker 3: you'd call a good deal. It's deeply unjust because there's
6:18
Speaker 3: no equivalence between innocent hostages and terrorists in prison. I mean,
6:24
Speaker 3: on the one hand, you have babies, children, mothers, sons,
6:28
Speaker 3: the elderly, all of them innocent Israelis who've been kidnapped.
6:32
Speaker 3: They're not prisoners of war. They should never have been abducted.
6:36
Speaker 3: There's no justice here. But this is a deal that
6:40
Speaker 3: Israel felt it had to do to bring its people home,
6:44
Speaker 3: even though it's far from perfect. There will be happy reunions,
6:48
Speaker 3: there will be moments of pure joy in the weeks ahead,
6:52
Speaker 3: but there will also be incredible distress, no question, when
6:56
Speaker 3: we learn that some hostages who we prayed were a
7:00
Speaker 3: live were in fact killed by Hermas. And I can
7:05
Speaker 3: say I'm definitely not looking forward to the sight of innocent,
7:10
Speaker 3: beautiful people coming home in body bags. But that is
7:14
Speaker 3: what we're facing now and it will be a difficult
7:17
Speaker 3: time now.
7:19
Speaker 2: One of those who.
7:20
Speaker 3: Were set to be the first to be released and
7:22
Speaker 3: this first stage of the deal is Keith Siegel. He's
7:26
Speaker 3: the beloved husband of Aviva Seagull, who I met when
7:29
Speaker 3: I was in Israel. He's sixty five and he spent
7:33
Speaker 3: fifteen months now in cruel captivity. Aviva was also held
7:37
Speaker 3: hostage for fifty four days, and she spoke about the
7:41
Speaker 3: cruel way Keith was treated.
7:44
Speaker 5: And we were just taken from her house in such
7:46
Speaker 5: a brutal way. On the way they pushed Keith and
7:50
Speaker 5: Brokie's rips and shot us. I remember seeing the bullets
7:54
Speaker 5: coming very close to my foot. I'm lucky, but they
7:58
Speaker 5: shot Keith on his hand. We arrived in Gaza while
8:02
Speaker 5: keep with bleeding and he was in such pain. The
8:05
Speaker 5: conditions were the worst conditions that you can think about.
8:09
Speaker 5: I just thought that I'm going to die, that kid's
8:12
Speaker 5: going to die, and just think about it. When in
8:15
Speaker 5: such a brutal way tortured my husband that I've been
8:17
Speaker 5: married to forty five years. I wanted to scream and cry,
8:22
Speaker 5: and I wasn't allowed to cry or scream. I just
8:25
Speaker 5: had to keep myself quiet.
8:28
Speaker 3: A Viva and her family they are warriors. A Viva
8:31
Speaker 3: has not stopped campaigning for the release of her husband
8:35
Speaker 3: and of all of the hostages, and we pray that
8:37
Speaker 3: Keith will be alive when he's.
8:39
Speaker 2: Returned to her. We just don't know now.
8:42
Speaker 3: It was incoming President Donald Trump who first broke the
8:45
Speaker 3: news that a deal had been done, and he posted
8:48
Speaker 3: on social media saying, we have a deal for the
8:50
Speaker 3: hostages in the Middle East.
8:51
Speaker 2: They will be released shortly. Thank you.
8:55
Speaker 3: But Joe Biden of course claimed that it was to
8:58
Speaker 3: his credit and he said this would be a permanent
9:01
Speaker 3: end to the war.
9:03
Speaker 6: Phase two, which is a permanent end of the war.
9:07
Speaker 6: Let me say it again, a permanent end of the war.
9:11
Speaker 6: There are a number of details that negotiate to move
9:14
Speaker 6: from Phase one to Phase two, but the plan says
9:18
Speaker 6: if negotiations take longer than six weeks, the ceasefire will
9:22
Speaker 6: continue as long as the negotiations continue.
9:27
Speaker 3: Now that's wrong, as I'll explain in a moment. But
9:31
Speaker 3: Albanizi also celebrated this cease fire.
9:33
Speaker 2: Have a look.
9:35
Speaker 7: I certainly hope and have consistently called for a lowering
9:39
Speaker 7: of the temperature here. Australians, I believe, wanted to see
9:46
Speaker 7: the hostage is released. They want to see an end
9:50
Speaker 7: to conflict. They also don't want conflict brought here. This
9:54
Speaker 7: is not the end. Importantly, this is a really important
9:59
Speaker 7: break through and stepped forward.
10:02
Speaker 3: Peter Darton, in much stronger comments, spoke about how much
10:06
Speaker 3: is Raetius have been through over the past fifteen months.
10:10
Speaker 8: We should never forget the carnage that took place on
10:12
Speaker 8: October seven, when Hamas, a listed terrorist organization, went in slaughtered, raped,
10:19
Speaker 8: pillaged the Kibbutzer's the music festival, where young people were
10:24
Speaker 8: struck down in their prime. Some of these people will
10:28
Speaker 8: be released shortly. They've been in captivity and in the
10:32
Speaker 8: hands of these barbarians for about fourteen months. It is
10:37
Speaker 8: horrific and we should never forget that. And the fact
10:41
Speaker 8: that they're still held hostage and haven't been released by
10:43
Speaker 8: now is an absolute disgrace.
10:47
Speaker 3: So as you just saw there from Joe Biden, there's
10:49
Speaker 3: naive politicians who are celebrating like it's the end of
10:53
Speaker 3: the war, but it's only a temporary cease fight if
10:56
Speaker 3: we even get one. Trey Yinks from Fox News reported
10:59
Speaker 3: today that Hamas is still thriving in Gaza, their green
11:03
Speaker 3: flag still waving on the.
11:05
Speaker 9: Streets inside Gaza. We've seen scenes from the city of
11:09
Speaker 9: their Albala in the center part of the Gaza Strip,
11:12
Speaker 9: many Palestinians celebrating there, and video of Hamas gunmen parading
11:17
Speaker 9: through the streets. The reality on the ground is that
11:19
Speaker 9: Hamas remains in power, and Biden's own Secretary of State
11:23
Speaker 9: just yesterday said that they have recruited just as many
11:26
Speaker 9: fighters as they have lost.
11:29
Speaker 3: And as he says, there is also unverified footage on
11:32
Speaker 3: social media that purports to show Palestinians and Hamas celebrating.
11:38
Speaker 3: They shouldn't be celebrating because having Hamas in power isn't
11:41
Speaker 3: good for the Palestinians and it's certainly not good for Israel.
11:45
Speaker 3: So despite Biden and even Albanesi's declarations, this hostage deal
11:50
Speaker 3: and temporary cease fire doesn't mean it's the end of
11:53
Speaker 3: the war, because Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to help
11:58
Speaker 3: Israel defeat Hamas and terrorism, and he means it. He
12:02
Speaker 3: will empower Israel rather than work against it and try
12:06
Speaker 3: to obstruct it like Joe Biden did with Netan Yahoo.
12:10
Speaker 3: Now there is some really sad news. Last night, I
12:15
Speaker 3: was very hopeful that the Bibas family might be brought home,
12:20
Speaker 3: but high level sources told me today that actually Israel
12:23
Speaker 3: isn't hopeful that they'll be returned alive. I thought it's thought,
12:28
Speaker 3: and this is what the belief is in Israel, that
12:31
Speaker 3: the father may be alive, but not baby Kafir, brother Ariel,
12:36
Speaker 3: or mother Shiri. This beautiful family and these beautiful little boys.
12:42
Speaker 3: They had everything to live or they had their whole
12:46
Speaker 3: lives ahead of them, and they're now presumed by Israel
12:51
Speaker 3: to be dead. This isn't confirmed. It's not confirmed. This
12:56
Speaker 3: is just what in Israeli intelligence believes. I hope they're wrong.
13:00
Speaker 3: With all my hard I hope they're wrong, But I'm
13:02
Speaker 3: reporting what high level Israeli sources, trusted sources, have told
13:07
Speaker 3: me today. Now, like I said, this is going to
13:10
Speaker 3: be a really, really tough and emotional six weeks. It's
13:14
Speaker 3: going to be an emotional rollercoaster. It's a tortured process
13:18
Speaker 3: where we may wait anxiously for an entire week for
13:22
Speaker 3: three hostages to be returned home to find that only
13:26
Speaker 3: bodies are returned home. But among the pain, there will
13:30
Speaker 3: be joyous reunions and incredible celebrations, and we at least
13:34
Speaker 3: look forward to the pure elation at families being reunited
13:40
Speaker 3: after terrorism cruelly tore them apart along four hundred and
13:44
Speaker 3: sixty seven days ago. Now I've got full coverage of
13:52
Speaker 3: the hostage deal, of what's breaking in Israel on my
13:55
Speaker 3: show tonight I have expert analysis coming up in just
13:59
Speaker 3: a moment, but first I'm going to bring you this
14:02
Speaker 3: exclusive report tonight. Deputy Liberal leader Susan Lay has launched
14:07
Speaker 3: an internal investigation into why she failed to declare accommodation,
14:12
Speaker 3: meals and transport funded by the Palestinian Authority. I put
14:17
Speaker 3: questions to her today about the expenses from her trip
14:20
Speaker 3: to the West Bank in twenty eleven. You can see
14:23
Speaker 3: her on that trip in this photograph. Susan Lay was
14:27
Speaker 3: a strong critic of Israel at the time, and she
14:29
Speaker 3: was given a tour by the Palestinian officials. Now, other
14:34
Speaker 3: politicians who went with her on that trip, labor and
14:37
Speaker 3: Peas like Maria van Vkino and Jill Hall, and even
14:41
Speaker 3: Liberal MP Melissa Park, they did make declarations in their
14:45
Speaker 3: pecuniary interest register about gifted meals, transport and accommodation from
14:51
Speaker 3: the Palestinian Authority. Susan Lay was traveling on the same trip,
14:55
Speaker 3: but made no declarations in her register of interests. Her
14:59
Speaker 3: office has told me this evening that they were now
15:02
Speaker 3: examining her declarations and I quote, our office will look
15:05
Speaker 3: into the question you've raised regarding a matter of declaration.
15:08
Speaker 3: Fourteen years ago. If correct, this would have been an
15:11
Speaker 3: administrative oversight. Susan has never hid from the fact that
15:15
Speaker 3: she was on the trip, indeed, she has spoken about
15:17
Speaker 3: it publicly on a number of occasions.
15:21
Speaker 2: Now, this failure to.
15:22
Speaker 3: Declare gifts like accommodation meals and transpot from the Palestinian
15:26
Speaker 3: authority is embarrassing for Susan Lay, and the revelation comes
15:31
Speaker 3: as concerns emerge about her ability to lead the policy
15:35
Speaker 3: argument on Israel if she were to take on the
15:38
Speaker 3: Foreign Affairs portfolio. Now, Peter Darton has a big decision
15:42
Speaker 3: to make about who will be his shadow Foreign Affairs Minister.
15:46
Speaker 3: These are the top contenders for the job, Dantian, James Patterson,
15:51
Speaker 3: Julian Lisa, Dave Sharma and Susan Lay. Now the only
15:57
Speaker 3: reason Susan Lay is even being concer cited for this
16:01
Speaker 3: portfolio is because she's the deputy Liberal leader and the
16:05
Speaker 3: Liberal Constitution states that the deputy can choose her own portfolio.
16:11
Speaker 3: And the main reason Susan Lay's deputy is that after
16:14
Speaker 3: the last selection, when Scott Morrison was wrongly hounded over
16:19
Speaker 3: the Britney Higgins affair, there was the perception that the
16:22
Speaker 3: Coalition had a women problem, so Peter Dutton appointed a
16:27
Speaker 3: woman as his deputy. He may not have made that
16:29
Speaker 3: choice otherwise. The deputy leader needs to come from the
16:34
Speaker 3: Lower House and there were limited options. The other women
16:36
Speaker 3: were either new MPs or lower profile MPs. So Susan
16:41
Speaker 3: Lay was appointed deputy and now, in the wake of
16:43
Speaker 3: Simon Birmingham's resignation, she has her sits on the Foreign
16:47
Speaker 3: Affairs job. But as you know, the biggest political issue
16:52
Speaker 3: in foreign affairs right now is the Middle East and
16:55
Speaker 3: Israel's fight against terror on behalf of all Western civilization.
17:00
Speaker 3: It's a fight Trump supports unequivocally. And here's the thing.
17:07
Speaker 3: Susan Lay was a pro Palestinian advocate for some fifteen years,
17:11
Speaker 3: at least before she visited Israel for less than a
17:15
Speaker 3: week in late twenty twenty two and changed her perspective.
17:20
Speaker 3: That visit was after she became the Deputy Liberal Leader
17:24
Speaker 3: in the wake of the May twenty twenty two election. Now,
17:27
Speaker 3: Susan Lay told me today that as Deputy leader, I
17:30
Speaker 3: have consistently held the government to account for their comprehensive
17:34
Speaker 3: and categorical failure to support Israel and our wonderful Jewish
17:38
Speaker 3: diaspora community on an almost daily basis since October seven.
17:42
Speaker 3: I always strive to be a voice of moral clarity
17:45
Speaker 3: and I never shy away from standing up for Australia.
17:48
Speaker 3: Unlike this Labor government, it will always be Australia's national
17:52
Speaker 3: interest that dictates the coalition's foreign policy thinking, not electoral arithmetic.
17:59
Speaker 2: Now I have to say, right up.
18:00
Speaker 3: I applaud Susan Lay for being open to visiting Israel,
18:04
Speaker 3: for changing her views. If only more people have this attitude.
18:10
Speaker 3: And she has been incredibly strong in her commentary since
18:14
Speaker 3: October seven and before, and I've broadcast on this program
18:18
Speaker 3: her many questions to Albanizi in Parliament where she hounded
18:23
Speaker 3: him over his hostility towards Israel. But the inescapable reality
18:30
Speaker 3: is Susan Lay's commentary over at least fifteen years was
18:34
Speaker 3: hostile towards Israel. It's at times been as bad as
18:38
Speaker 3: anything Albanisi or Penny Wong said. In twenty seventeen, just
18:44
Speaker 3: four and a half years ago, Susan Lay spoke about
18:47
Speaker 3: her long standing affinity with the Palestinians and made shocking
18:52
Speaker 3: accusations against Israel.
18:55
Speaker 10: I Rise today to remind the Parliament that in June
18:57
Speaker 10: it was fifty years since the Arab Israel Six Day War,
19:02
Speaker 10: the conflict that empowered the State of Israel but began
19:05
Speaker 10: fifty years of occupation of Palestinian land. Is seen from
19:08
Speaker 10: very different points of view. As someone with a long
19:11
Speaker 10: term affinity for the Palestinians, including co chairing this Parliament's
19:14
Speaker 10: Friendship Group over many years, I wish to highlight the
19:17
Speaker 10: Palestinian perspective between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
19:21
Speaker 10: Half the residents all more live as either second class
19:24
Speaker 10: citizens or non citizens because they are Palestinian. In the
19:27
Speaker 10: West Bank, a third of the Palestinian population is under fourteen.
19:31
Speaker 10: Less than five percent would remember a time without Israeli occupation.
19:37
Speaker 3: So you just heard there Susan lay accuse Israel of occupation.
19:40
Speaker 3: She's also described the highly necessary security fence as a
19:44
Speaker 3: separation wall, and she's criticized Israel for refusing to allow
19:48
Speaker 3: the return of expelled refugees. In other speeches in Parliament,
19:52
Speaker 3: she accused Israel of confiscating Palestinian land and said that
19:56
Speaker 3: Gaza was on the brink of starvation. In twan one
20:00
Speaker 3: and eleven, she expressed support for Palestinian's statehood, which at
20:04
Speaker 3: the time was even to the left of the Labor
20:07
Speaker 3: Party have a look.
20:09
Speaker 10: I support the Palestinian bid for statehood in part because
20:12
Speaker 10: it will give heart to the ordinary people of the
20:14
Speaker 10: West Bank and Gaza.
20:17
Speaker 3: In a two thousand and eight speech, Susan Lay said,
20:20
Speaker 3: and I quote, Israel has many friends in this country
20:23
Speaker 3: and in this parliament. The Palestinians, by comparison, have few theirs.
20:28
Speaker 3: Is not a popular cause, but it is one I
20:31
Speaker 3: support in part out of knowledge that the victors in
20:34
Speaker 3: World War II, including Australia, wrote a homeland check to
20:39
Speaker 3: cover the sins of the Holocaust and centuries of anti
20:42
Speaker 3: Semitism in Europe, but it was the Palestinians who had
20:45
Speaker 3: to cash it. I find that particularly shocking because it
20:49
Speaker 3: feeds into the narrative that the Jews don't belong in Israel,
20:52
Speaker 3: when in fact, Jews are indigenous to the land of
20:55
Speaker 3: Israel and lived there for thousands of years before Islam
20:58
Speaker 3: was even invented. Now in as recently as twenty eighteen,
21:03
Speaker 3: Susan Lay met with the Australian Palestinian Advocacy Network, whose
21:07
Speaker 3: current leader Nasa Mashni.
21:09
Speaker 2: Has described Jews as filth.
21:13
Speaker 3: So again, Susan lay She did see first hand the
21:16
Speaker 3: situation in Israel. She has been extremely sympathetic to Israeli
21:20
Speaker 3: since then, and she has taken the fight up to
21:22
Speaker 3: Penny Wong. But the other contenders for the Foreign Affairs portfolio,
21:27
Speaker 3: especially Julian Lisa, James Patterson and Dave Sharma, all have
21:31
Speaker 3: an in depth and highly intellectual understanding of the complexities
21:36
Speaker 3: and history of the Middle East. They didn't change long
21:39
Speaker 3: held views to support Israel a year or so before
21:43
Speaker 3: October seven.
21:44
Speaker 2: They have always This is such a key point.
21:47
Speaker 3: They have always been aligned with Australia's official foreign policy
21:51
Speaker 3: stance and our national interest and it's just obvious that
21:57
Speaker 3: any one of them would be a more natural, qualified
22:00
Speaker 3: choice for the Foreign Affairs portfolio. If Susan lay Force
22:05
Speaker 3: is the issue, there would be accusations that the Liberals
22:08
Speaker 3: had succumb to Dei, that her appointment was owing to
22:11
Speaker 3: her gender rather than merit, and merit should win out
22:15
Speaker 3: on all occasions, particularly with such an important role as
22:19
Speaker 3: Foreign affairs that's so crucial to our future and national security. Okay,
22:29
Speaker 3: let's return to the breaking news now. Confirmation from Israeli
22:32
Speaker 3: Prime Minister Benjaminettaya, who's office that the hostage deal is
22:36
Speaker 3: on pause. It is not going to go to cabinet
22:38
Speaker 3: now in Israel, as it was scheduled to at eleven
22:41
Speaker 3: am local time. Let's bring in two experts on this issue.
22:44
Speaker 3: I'm joined now by the CEO of the International Legal
22:47
Speaker 3: Forum and senior fellow at the Misgarv Institute for National Security, Arsenostrowsky,
22:53
Speaker 3: irregular on the show, and the former Press office director
22:57
Speaker 3: of the Prime Minister's office, Daniel Seaman.
23:00
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Arson. Let's start with you.
23:03
Speaker 3: What are you hearing and are you surprised that this
23:06
Speaker 3: hostage deal is now under threat?
23:10
Speaker 11: No, I don't think anyone should be surprised. You know,
23:12
Speaker 11: cheetahs don't change their spots in order. Terror groups like
23:17
Speaker 11: Hamas this is a last minute of tempt essentially by
23:20
Speaker 11: them to extort and blackmail Israel into making even further concessions,
23:24
Speaker 11: specifically here into having a say on the terraces that
23:29
Speaker 11: are supposed to be released. This is something that is
23:32
Speaker 11: outside the scope of the agreement, something outside what the
23:35
Speaker 11: parties had agreed to along with the mediators. So essentially
23:38
Speaker 11: there's a Hamas trund to blackmail Israel in the last
23:40
Speaker 11: second off the negotiations and just before the signing of
23:43
Speaker 11: any agreement.
23:45
Speaker 3: Daniel, we are hearing that one of the sticking I'm
23:48
Speaker 3: hearing that one of the sticking points in the deal
23:50
Speaker 3: were two sticking points. One is that there was still
23:54
Speaker 3: rocket fire from Hamas last night in Israel and this morning.
23:57
Speaker 2: You would be well aware of that.
23:58
Speaker 3: But also that Hermas is now demanding that they decide
24:02
Speaker 3: which Palestinian terrorists are released from Israeli prisons. Why is
24:06
Speaker 3: it important that Israel has veto over this decision.
24:12
Speaker 12: Well, that was part of the arrangement, and obviously it's
24:15
Speaker 12: necessary because Israel can determine who among these Hamas former
24:23
Speaker 12: terrorists who were apprehended by Israel.
24:26
Speaker 13: It's quite clear that they're not going to go and
24:28
Speaker 13: retire now and live their lives in harmony and in
24:33
Speaker 13: search of peace. So we want to be very careful
24:36
Speaker 13: who we allow out there because of the influence they'll
24:38
Speaker 13: have on their own society, a society which, by the way,
24:42
Speaker 13: since last night has been cheering this as a huge victory,
24:46
Speaker 13: but that should be expected. The other thing is that
24:48
Speaker 13: they're all claiming that they are all members of Kamas
24:51
Speaker 13: and they're going to now they will avenge the death
24:57
Speaker 13: of Sinoar. So we have to be very careful with
25:00
Speaker 13: what we do and who we release, so to at
25:03
Speaker 13: least have the possibility of the ceasefire being respected and honored.
25:09
Speaker 13: Not that we've had anything from the past that can
25:13
Speaker 13: make us believe that this is this will happen. What
25:17
Speaker 13: is happening right now with Haamas is quite clear that
25:20
Speaker 13: they're once again trying to take advantage of the situation.
25:23
Speaker 13: It's nothing new. This happened with the situation with Hissbellah,
25:27
Speaker 13: it happened with the peace treaty, or or with the
25:30
Speaker 13: ceasefire that was reached in Lebanon. Ribellah has been consistently
25:33
Speaker 13: and persistently trying to violate it or trying to get
25:39
Speaker 13: advantages because Israel is not there. The thing is that
25:43
Speaker 13: there's a difference now between what they've been used to
25:46
Speaker 13: because in the past Israel would usually complain to the
25:50
Speaker 13: to the countries that have given us that had promised
25:53
Speaker 13: that this would be observed. Now we're not doing that anymore.
25:56
Speaker 13: And the same thing is going to happen in Gaza
25:59
Speaker 13: with come and this by the actions taken by the
26:02
Speaker 13: Prime Minister is making it very clear to them that
26:04
Speaker 13: what they were used to in the past is not
26:05
Speaker 13: going to happen anymore. The Middle East has changed, Israel's
26:09
Speaker 13: has changed, and they should be aware that either they
26:11
Speaker 13: fulfill the appuirements and what they agreed to, or they
26:14
Speaker 13: will suffer the consequences us in what.
26:17
Speaker 3: I've been struggling with with this deal, and absolutely I
26:21
Speaker 3: one hundred percent think and not just as a mother,
26:24
Speaker 3: but as a human, I think there's no measure you
26:27
Speaker 3: wouldn't go to to bring hostages home. But what I
26:30
Speaker 3: struggle with is why couldn't America Qatar Israel have forced
26:35
Speaker 3: her Musk into a better deal. I mean, her mass
26:38
Speaker 3: is virtually eliminated. So how did they have so much
26:41
Speaker 3: negotiating power to demand one thousand prisoners be released, to
26:47
Speaker 3: demand only three hostages a week? You know, it just
26:51
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like a good deal.
26:55
Speaker 11: Look, there are a lot of things here that certainly
26:58
Speaker 11: don't done that up, and these difficult hours and days,
27:02
Speaker 11: and you know, I think as united in the beginning
27:04
Speaker 11: your introduction, there's certainly some sense of relief, certainly for
27:07
Speaker 11: the hostage hostage families that about said the loved ones.
27:10
Speaker 11: But this is no celebration. There were no easy choices. Yeah,
27:13
Speaker 11: there was only painful decisions that had to be made,
27:16
Speaker 11: and essentially Israel had to make a deal with the
27:18
Speaker 11: devil in order to secure the release of our loved ones. Unfortunately,
27:23
Speaker 11: this was the only deal on the table. It should
27:25
Speaker 11: not have been the case, but these are the circumstances.
27:28
Speaker 11: So yes, it does come with some element of risk.
27:31
Speaker 11: But you know, we're also taught that whoever saved the life,
27:35
Speaker 11: it is as though they saved the entire world. You know,
27:39
Speaker 11: we're dealing on the one hand, it's this sort of
27:41
Speaker 11: morbid equation where children, women who have been brutally raped, assaulted,
27:47
Speaker 11: elderly wounded, and on the other hand you're dealing with
27:50
Speaker 11: a terrorists, bloodthirsty murderers who are to be released. But
27:56
Speaker 11: for Israel, in Jewish state, the prerogative is to secure
27:58
Speaker 11: the release of hostage and that was absolute paramount because
28:01
Speaker 11: whereas we place the ultimate progative on life, they place
28:05
Speaker 11: their prerogative on death.
28:08
Speaker 3: Daniel, it is going to be very hard for Israel
28:11
Speaker 3: emotionally when and provided this deal goes ahead, when there
28:15
Speaker 3: are weeks, you know, when families or people are going
28:17
Speaker 3: to be looking forward to the release of three hostages
28:19
Speaker 3: and it's body bags that come home.
28:24
Speaker 13: Yep, this whole situation is heart wrenching. I know that
28:30
Speaker 13: everybody knows. Not only in the past year and three
28:34
Speaker 13: months in which we've come to know the families, many
28:37
Speaker 13: of us have direct connections to them. My daughters good
28:39
Speaker 13: friends with Nama Levi. We hear now that the first
28:42
Speaker 13: five who are to be released are the soldiers who
28:46
Speaker 13: were taken on that day. Nama is known from that
28:49
Speaker 13: infamous photo of her being dragged out of the jeep
28:52
Speaker 13: and bloodied, and so we have a personal feeling and
28:56
Speaker 13: stake in this.
28:57
Speaker 10: So it is.
29:01
Speaker 13: What can you say? You described it perfectly in your
29:04
Speaker 13: opening here. We also all of us know somebody who
29:08
Speaker 13: has fallen. My son had a friend who he grew
29:12
Speaker 13: up with in the high school fell in battle just
29:14
Speaker 13: a month ago. So these things are This is a
29:17
Speaker 13: situation we're in. At the moment, there will be tremendous
29:20
Speaker 13: joy and satisfaction in them being sent home, but at
29:24
Speaker 13: the same time we know that there's a lot that
29:26
Speaker 13: they're not telling us, and they're using this for psychological
29:30
Speaker 13: elements of psychological warfare that they conduct against us in
29:34
Speaker 13: order to tear apart our society, but also to cause
29:36
Speaker 13: pain amongst us. And you asked about the conditions. They're
29:41
Speaker 13: not looking for a Ceasepier. They don't care about the
29:44
Speaker 13: sea spire, They're not looking for an exchange. The whole
29:47
Speaker 13: purpose of what they're doing is to cause pain and
29:51
Speaker 13: emotional trauma among Israelis. They just don't understand.
29:55
Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right.
29:57
Speaker 3: Hamas hasn't cared about Yestinian civilians the entire way through.
30:02
Speaker 3: If they did, they wouldn't have launched the attack on
30:05
Speaker 3: Israel on October seven in the first place, because obviously
30:08
Speaker 3: they would know that Israel would need to retrieve its hostages,
30:12
Speaker 3: bring its people home and respond. So, you know, but
30:17
Speaker 3: any people it sacrifices.
30:19
Speaker 13: We have to remember that their population elected them. These
30:22
Speaker 13: are not They did not impose themselves among the Palistina.
30:25
Speaker 13: And even at this moment, the Arabs and Gaza are
30:28
Speaker 13: saying very clearly that they continue to support Kamas. So
30:32
Speaker 13: when you vote and you elect and you support something,
30:36
Speaker 13: they continue to support the actions against Israel. There are
30:39
Speaker 13: consequences to that, as they've learned in the leear in
30:41
Speaker 13: past year, in three months.
30:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Arsenostrovsky and Daniel Seamen really appreciate your
30:47
Speaker 3: expert analysis on this deal tonight.
30:49
Speaker 2: Thank you.
30:51
Speaker 3: Now, after the break we're going to look at as
30:53
Speaker 3: well the Australian who's feared executed by Russia. Have Robert
30:57
Speaker 3: Potter and Michael Downby on the show. Going to return
31:00
Speaker 3: to this hostage deal. I've got a family member of
31:03
Speaker 3: a current hostage will join me live. Stay tuned, welcome back. Well,
31:11
Speaker 3: if you're just tuning in, we have the breaking news
31:13
Speaker 3: tonight that Hermas has renegged on key parts of its
31:17
Speaker 3: deal with Israel. The hostage deal is now up in
31:20
Speaker 3: the air. Israel has delayed its cabinet meeting this morning
31:24
Speaker 3: local time Israel, where it was due to officially pass
31:29
Speaker 3: the treaty. So we'll bring you more news as that unfolds,
31:32
Speaker 3: but at this point in time, the hostage deal.
31:34
Speaker 2: Is up in the air.
31:35
Speaker 3: This situation will be causing incredible anxiety for the family
31:39
Speaker 3: members of the hostages. One of them is the family
31:43
Speaker 3: members of Deron Steinbrecher. Last March, veterinary nurses family marked
31:49
Speaker 3: her thirty first birthday without her.
31:52
Speaker 2: She's not a soldier, she's not a prisoner of war.
31:56
Speaker 2: Under the terms of the now.
31:57
Speaker 3: Under threat hostage agreement, Diane Bracker would have been released
32:02
Speaker 3: in the first phase, which includes women and children. And
32:05
Speaker 3: I'm joined now by her cousin, Michail Mayo. Michal, thank you.
32:10
Speaker 2: Very much for joining us now perfectly you.
32:13
Speaker 3: Would have just heard the news about this deal now
32:16
Speaker 3: being under threat. I mean, how difficult is this for
32:20
Speaker 3: you to have to deal with this emotional roller coaster
32:23
Speaker 3: of this being on and off again.
32:26
Speaker 14: Absolutely, these are the worlds. It's an emotional roller coaster.
32:31
Speaker 14: My family is strong. We believe the wrong is alive.
32:36
Speaker 14: We want her back. We want all the other ninety
32:39
Speaker 14: eight hostages. We want everyone to bring backs, but to
32:46
Speaker 14: be back.
32:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Those who have.
32:47
Speaker 14: Died deserve a proper burial in Israel, and those who
32:50
Speaker 14: are alive need to be brought back to heal and
32:53
Speaker 14: recover with your families.
32:55
Speaker 2: We are worried. Have you had any proof of life
33:00
Speaker 2: for Doron do Ronnie? Do you know?
33:02
Speaker 3: Do you You say you believe she's alive, but have
33:04
Speaker 3: you heard anything officially?
33:07
Speaker 14: Yeah, we had a voice recording which she said when
33:12
Speaker 14: they took her. She's saying, they caught me, They caught me,
33:14
Speaker 14: They caught me. She sent it on October seventh at
33:17
Speaker 14: ten approximately ten forty am am in the morning to
33:23
Speaker 14: a family it us, and then on the one hundred
33:26
Speaker 14: and seventh day, Hamas released a video. You can definitely
33:33
Speaker 14: see there that she's not in a good condition. My
33:36
Speaker 14: cousin suffered from a chronicle illness. She needs medications. She
33:40
Speaker 14: definitely not getting there. This was almost almost a year ago. Yeah,
33:44
Speaker 14: at the one hundred and seventh day, they're very cautious
33:50
Speaker 14: with this deal. The responsibility for securing the dealers with Hamas,
33:54
Speaker 14: and people ask if you are excited. There is some excitement,
33:59
Speaker 14: but worried.
34:02
Speaker 3: A lot of trepidation, a lot of anxiety. You know,
34:05
Speaker 3: there was always the possibility that something was going to
34:07
Speaker 3: go wrong. There'd be a snag, and even at even
34:10
Speaker 3: if the first three hostages were released on Sunday, at
34:14
Speaker 3: any point over the next six weeks, something could go wrong.
34:17
Speaker 3: You know, I just don't know how you're getting through
34:19
Speaker 3: every day.
34:19
Speaker 2: Michael.
34:20
Speaker 3: We really appreciate you joining us and for speaking out
34:24
Speaker 3: and fighting.
34:24
Speaker 2: For your cousin. Thank you, Thank you very much.
34:29
Speaker 3: Now, coming up after the break, We're going to look
34:31
Speaker 3: at whether Albinizi has responded strongly enough to Russia after
34:35
Speaker 3: reports that it executed a young Australian. I'll be joined
34:38
Speaker 3: by Robert Potter and Michael Danby, and a bit later
34:42
Speaker 3: we're going to cross back live to Israel and I'll
34:44
Speaker 3: be joined by the former head of the IDF hostage
34:47
Speaker 3: Affairs Unit. He's going to take us behind the scenes
34:50
Speaker 3: of negotiating with terrorists. This is a big show tonight,
34:53
Speaker 3: don't miss it. Welcome back, all right. I'm joined now
34:58
Speaker 3: by Internet two point zo co founder Robert Potter and
35:02
Speaker 3: former Labor and P Michael Danby.
35:05
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both, evening.
35:07
Speaker 3: Look, Australia is still trying to officially confirm reports that
35:11
Speaker 3: Oscar Jenkins has been executed by Russian forces after fighting
35:15
Speaker 3: in Ukraine. Robert, you have spent you're basically living in
35:19
Speaker 3: Ukraine at the moment. What do you think Australia needs
35:23
Speaker 3: to do to put pressure on Russia to confirm whether
35:27
Speaker 3: or not Oscar is alive.
35:30
Speaker 1: Well, the first thing we need to do is recognize
35:32
Speaker 1: that Russia only respects strength. A simple diplomatic response isn't
35:37
Speaker 1: going to get us the proof of life we want,
35:39
Speaker 1: we need to impose costs on Russia, and that means
35:42
Speaker 1: providing support to Ukraine and making it explicit that this
35:46
Speaker 1: is in retaliation to human rights abuses by the Russian government.
35:50
Speaker 1: We also need to establish that a person with a
35:52
Speaker 1: gun to the face of an Australian prisoner of war
35:55
Speaker 1: is going to face consequences, and a simple diplomatic response
35:59
Speaker 1: that isn't backed up by significant financial support to the
36:02
Speaker 1: Ukrainian government isn't going to deter a Russian from shooting
36:06
Speaker 1: an Australian soldier in the face.
36:09
Speaker 2: It's pretty extraordinary.
36:10
Speaker 3: Michael Danby, you also have visited Ukraine on numerous occasions.
36:14
Speaker 3: You are quite an expert in this area. How do
36:17
Speaker 3: you think Australia and Penny Wong should be responding.
36:21
Speaker 15: Exactly as Robert sees. We've got hundreds of these Hawkeye
36:25
Speaker 15: vehicles in sheds all over Australia, Ship them to the
36:30
Speaker 15: Ukrainian straight away, send them on the big aeroplanes that
36:35
Speaker 15: can airlift them there, and boot out the Soviet sorry
36:39
Speaker 15: Russian ambassador.
36:41
Speaker 3: So you both think the Russian ambassador ambassador should be
36:44
Speaker 3: expelled at this point in the battlefield.
36:50
Speaker 2: Kick him out, Robert.
36:55
Speaker 1: Yes, if you've shot a prisoner of war, what's the
36:58
Speaker 1: diplomatic relationship? And it can't just be something we reset
37:02
Speaker 1: to in six months time. It has to be a
37:04
Speaker 1: financial penalty on the Russians that we know is going
37:07
Speaker 1: to harm Russian soldiers on the battlefield.
37:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
37:10
Speaker 3: I spoke at the start of the show about Peter
37:13
Speaker 3: Duten's reshuffle of his shadow Cabinet. The highly prized Foreign
37:18
Speaker 3: Affairs spokesman role is up for grabs. The contenders James Patterson,
37:23
Speaker 3: Dave Sharma, Julian Lisa Dantean and Susan Lay. Robert, you
37:29
Speaker 3: know there are concerns about Susan Lay in this role.
37:33
Speaker 2: What is your view?
37:36
Speaker 1: I don't think she's a heavyweight. I've worked pretty well
37:39
Speaker 1: with other members that have been proposed as alternatives for
37:43
Speaker 1: the Foreign Minister role. It's a key it's a key
37:46
Speaker 1: posting and it needs to go to somebody who's got
37:48
Speaker 1: a consistent track record of supporting Australian policy.
37:52
Speaker 2: Michael dowanby what do you think?
37:55
Speaker 15: Well, my parliamentary experience tells me that you need to
37:57
Speaker 15: have someone in the same chamber as Penny warng So
38:01
Speaker 15: therefore I would put Sharma and Patterson as the front runners.
38:05
Speaker 15: And I agree with Steve Conroy that Patterson is the
38:08
Speaker 15: standout opposition person over the last three years. But he's
38:13
Speaker 15: doing so well in that portfolio if I was done,
38:16
Speaker 15: and I'd be reluctant to shift him, and I think
38:18
Speaker 15: Sharma is wasted, so I'd give him a leg up.
38:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, he look at Sharma's as well, certainly experienced in
38:25
Speaker 3: the area, and agree with you Jameis Patterson, Well, he
38:28
Speaker 3: already had a minister resigned, didn't he in Andrew Giles.
38:32
Speaker 3: Now let's return to this breaking news tonight that the
38:36
Speaker 3: hostage deal is now under threat. Robert Potter, you know,
38:39
Speaker 3: there was a lot of celebration for this hostage deal today,
38:43
Speaker 3: but you know, we still don't have answers about how
38:46
Speaker 3: is America and Israel going to get rid of her mass,
38:48
Speaker 3: how does her must not remain in power? So there
38:52
Speaker 3: are still difficult questions that need answering here.
38:58
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't think celebrating early is ever a good
39:00
Speaker 1: idea when it comes to Middle East and negotiations. AMASA
39:04
Speaker 1: is known to be tricky and always tries to make
39:06
Speaker 1: extra demands at the end and trying to determine which
39:10
Speaker 1: mass murder it gets released from Israeli prisoner prisons in
39:13
Speaker 1: exchange for what could be bodies of hostages is just
39:16
Speaker 1: not going to look good for the politician who tries
39:19
Speaker 1: to go around doing a victory lap.
39:20
Speaker 3: Right now, Michael, you know the hostage deal is now
39:24
Speaker 3: up in the air. Hamas isn't sticking by that one
39:28
Speaker 3: point that Robert just referred to, where Israel has veto
39:31
Speaker 3: over which terrorists are released from their own prisons. Hamas
39:34
Speaker 3: wants to dictate.
39:35
Speaker 2: That as well.
39:36
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the biggest concern is that another
39:39
Speaker 3: Sinhwa is released, because that's what happened when Gillard Charlotte
39:43
Speaker 3: was free from Gaza in exchange for one twenty seven
39:49
Speaker 3: Palestinians from Israeli prisons.
39:50
Speaker 2: One of them was ya Ya Sinha.
39:54
Speaker 15: Well, this is a very harsh deal for the Israelis,
39:57
Speaker 15: but it's personally underwritten by this envoy of the President
40:00
Speaker 15: of the United States. So I hope those hummus freaks
40:04
Speaker 15: in Anchora and Gas are understand that they're going to
40:07
Speaker 15: double cross the Donald and I hoping Unleasha's hell on
40:12
Speaker 15: them if they do. These poor people haven't been visited
40:16
Speaker 15: Charri once by the International Committee of the Red Cross.
40:19
Speaker 15: I personally won't be giving the Red Cross a dollar anymore.
40:22
Speaker 15: It's a complete negligence of the poor ninety eight people
40:25
Speaker 15: who have been tortured, raped, and all of the kinds
40:28
Speaker 15: of things that happened to them in those depraved Humusk tunnels.
40:31
Speaker 3: And Robert, you know, the international community, I don't think
40:34
Speaker 3: you know, as Michael just referred to, it hasn't put
40:37
Speaker 3: enough pressure on a Hamas or on its backers, the
40:41
Speaker 3: nations that were harboring the Harmas leaders. If that pressure
40:45
Speaker 3: had been brought in such a strong way I'm talking
40:48
Speaker 3: sanctions a year ago, we.
40:50
Speaker 2: Might be in a different situation.
40:52
Speaker 1: Now, absolutely right. And getting the hostages back has always
40:58
Speaker 1: been the military goal here. Getting back bodies in exchange
41:02
Speaker 1: for dozens of mass murderers is just setting us up
41:05
Speaker 1: for another conflict. We need a pathway to peace, not
41:08
Speaker 1: a pathway to another round of violence.
41:10
Speaker 3: And that's the concern Michael, that you know, there is
41:13
Speaker 3: the criticism that this deal will encourage hostage taking, because
41:20
Speaker 3: you know, the lesson for terrorists is that they take hostages,
41:24
Speaker 3: they can make any demands are you worried that that
41:27
Speaker 3: will be one of the unfortunate outcomes of this deal
41:30
Speaker 3: provided it goes ahead.
41:32
Speaker 15: Well, of course, the Sinewa and Charlitte deal previously led
41:36
Speaker 15: directly to this one and to their plan to seize hostages.
41:40
Speaker 15: It's a terrible deal which Nettao has had to agree
41:43
Speaker 15: to because the pressure from the United States as much
41:47
Speaker 15: as anything. But what we don't know, Shari, is what
41:50
Speaker 15: the secret reasoning is behind why Nettannal has agreed to
41:54
Speaker 15: do this. I hope is a bigger benefit with Iran
41:59
Speaker 15: that he is secured from the incoming president of the
42:02
Speaker 15: United States, who's owed the entire credit for what we've
42:05
Speaker 15: got so far, to the extent we've got it, much
42:08
Speaker 15: more so than the poor old fellow who is claiming
42:11
Speaker 15: credit couldn't do anything over the last years. In tragic
42:16
Speaker 15: broadcast today where he said that the Israeli had been
42:19
Speaker 15: attacked by Hezbollah, I can't even remember the name of
42:22
Speaker 15: the terrorist organization.
42:24
Speaker 3: No, he was hopeless, and everyone knows it's the fact
42:27
Speaker 3: that Trump is about to be president in a number
42:30
Speaker 3: of days. That is the only reason Harmas came to
42:33
Speaker 3: the table. But that would be interesting. Michael if, as
42:36
Speaker 3: you say, Trump has indicated he might support Israel to
42:40
Speaker 3: attack Iran's nuclear or other defense sites in return for this,
42:45
Speaker 3: but we don't know that. That's pure speculation on our part.
42:49
Speaker 3: Network just couldn't want the hostages free. That could be
42:52
Speaker 3: his only motivation. All right, Robert Potter Micha could down
42:55
Speaker 3: be great to have you both on the show.
42:57
Speaker 2: Thank you. Now, I don't go anywhere.
42:59
Speaker 3: The former head of the IDFs, that's Israeli Defense Forces
43:02
Speaker 3: Hostage Affairs Unit will join.
43:05
Speaker 2: Me right after this quick break.
43:10
Speaker 3: Okay, let's bring in this very impressive guest. Now, Advanced
43:14
Speaker 3: Lieutenant colonel and former head of the Hostage Affairs Unit
43:18
Speaker 3: for the Israeli Defense Force, Avikrlo joins me now live
43:22
Speaker 3: from Israel.
43:23
Speaker 2: Avi.
43:23
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, really appreciate your time. You were
43:27
Speaker 3: actually quite involved in this negotiation as well. One of
43:33
Speaker 3: the elements that's been so controversial are the one thousand,
43:36
Speaker 3: two hundred Palestinian criminals and terrorists who will be released
43:41
Speaker 3: from Israeli prisons. Can you tell us a bit about
43:43
Speaker 3: that process and where they'll be sent offshore and how
43:48
Speaker 3: Israeli families who are victims of those terrorists would have
43:51
Speaker 3: to be notified.
43:54
Speaker 16: Yeah, thanks Sherry for having me first, and we do
43:57
Speaker 16: hope for obviously the outcome of this crisis point tactical
44:00
Speaker 16: crisis to be end soon and the deal will start
44:02
Speaker 16: to embark hopefully early next week. So with regard to
44:07
Speaker 16: what you've been asking, there is a unique procedure in
44:10
Speaker 16: Israel that deals with the aspects of a victim of
44:12
Speaker 16: terror that being offended by those massive murders that want
44:16
Speaker 16: to be released during this hostage deal, that have the
44:20
Speaker 16: entitlement to approach the Supreme Court in Israel, who as
44:23
Speaker 16: you know, highly prestigious on the international community as well
44:26
Speaker 16: to appeal against the government for the release of those
44:30
Speaker 16: accused murderers. The DOJ, the Israel Department of Justice, must
44:35
Speaker 16: publish forty eight hours prior to the release of those
44:38
Speaker 16: mass murders of being in jail obviously for dozens of years,
44:41
Speaker 16: most of them for life sentence. So the DJ must
44:46
Speaker 16: publish the list of the prisoners and the families has
44:49
Speaker 16: the ability to obviously to appeal to the Supreme Court
44:51
Speaker 16: and claim against the release. Usually Supreme Court in Israel
44:55
Speaker 16: keeps the freedom of action for the political level in
44:59
Speaker 16: this regard and usually the not interfering such a political decision,
45:02
Speaker 16: which is obviously a common practice not only in Israel,
45:05
Speaker 16: but also one global scale.
45:07
Speaker 3: So this is a very complicated national security process for
45:11
Speaker 3: Israel because it's going to be releasing hardened criminals, including
45:15
Speaker 3: terrorists to committed terror attacks. It has been said that
45:19
Speaker 3: Israel will be sending some of these offshore overseas.
45:23
Speaker 2: Where will they go, well.
45:26
Speaker 16: At least according to initial understandings here on the local arena,
45:30
Speaker 16: I would say that they are going to be deported
45:32
Speaker 16: abroad from Israel, some of them definitely not to the
45:35
Speaker 16: West Bank where there is a high tension between Israelis
45:40
Speaker 16: and Palestinians back there on the Palestinian cities of the
45:43
Speaker 16: West Bank. Most of the most of the origins of
45:45
Speaker 16: those prisoners are from the West Bank. So they are
45:48
Speaker 16: going to be released mainly abroad in order to obviously
45:51
Speaker 16: minimize the threat that they are setting for the national
45:54
Speaker 16: security of the Israeli people here. Mainly main countries that
45:58
Speaker 16: you could consider is cut out Turkey, Egypt, and other
46:02
Speaker 16: Gulf states around the region here, and probably also some
46:06
Speaker 16: from Europe, for example in the Schalidian which you mentioned
46:09
Speaker 16: earlier in the previous interview. Some of the prisoners were
46:12
Speaker 16: deported to Ireland and even to France, so we had
46:16
Speaker 16: some other opportunities back there. That depends on the obviously
46:19
Speaker 16: a negotiation that the government is dealing with other governments
46:22
Speaker 16: around the globe in order to depot those prisoners in
46:25
Speaker 16: a very specific I would say, strict conditions about the
46:30
Speaker 16: way that they're going to handle the states were going
46:32
Speaker 16: to be hosted in.
46:34
Speaker 3: You think that would be a huge political issue in
46:36
Speaker 3: any European country that has to take these Palestinian terrorists.
46:41
Speaker 3: Now you worked, you led the hostage affairs unit, looking
46:45
Speaker 3: at this deal, Is this the sort of deal you
46:48
Speaker 3: would have designed, three hostages being released each week?
46:52
Speaker 2: You know, what do you think about that?
46:55
Speaker 16: Well, it's extremely complicated negotiation, an extremely complicated deal that
46:59
Speaker 16: sat or its origins are based on the Biden initiative
47:03
Speaker 16: set by President Biden on November twenty on May twenty
47:06
Speaker 16: twenty three, and obviously the situation is that the we're
47:11
Speaker 16: talking here about a phased approach deal, which obviously stretch
47:15
Speaker 16: the timeline of the deal and make it even more
47:17
Speaker 16: complicated and more I would say concerned with regard to
47:20
Speaker 16: the possible implication of breaching such a deal due to
47:23
Speaker 16: the time frame that it needs to be conducting, meaning
47:26
Speaker 16: that we have a wide timeline of three months almost
47:30
Speaker 16: for the release of all those hostages in a very
47:33
Speaker 16: phased approach that actually meets at the end some tensions
47:37
Speaker 16: on ground. The battlefield is still kind of boiled in
47:40
Speaker 16: a way, and the tensional ground is obvious, and the
47:43
Speaker 16: idea is obviously operasionally ready for any clashes with the Hamasteris.
47:48
Speaker 16: So there must be some There may be some developments
47:52
Speaker 16: on ground that will take situations back in regard to
47:57
Speaker 16: the ability to implement the agreement once they will be
48:00
Speaker 16: clashes on ground. So it's going to be very complicated
48:03
Speaker 16: to implement such an agreement for such a long time
48:06
Speaker 16: of implementation.
48:07
Speaker 3: We've had the breaking news, of course tonight as we
48:09
Speaker 3: went to a that this hostage deal is not going
48:13
Speaker 3: to the Israeli cabinet at least not this morning Israel time,
48:16
Speaker 3: because Hamas has breached key elements of the deal.
48:20
Speaker 2: Do you expect this will get back on track?
48:24
Speaker 16: Well, I do assess cautiously. As I know Hamas for
48:28
Speaker 16: almost twenty years, I would say, and I know also
48:31
Speaker 16: some of the mediators and the characters that deeply involved
48:33
Speaker 16: in the negotiation currently, I would say cautiously that I
48:37
Speaker 16: would assess that at the end those tactical recent or
48:42
Speaker 16: just last minute blackmails of Hamas, which is by the way,
48:45
Speaker 16: a common practice that we know from telst organization in
48:47
Speaker 16: the Middle East. Not only Hamas but also Chrizbeala conducted
48:51
Speaker 16: the same methods of operation when it was in ostages
48:54
Speaker 16: deal with this organization, these Lebanies organization back in fifteen
48:59
Speaker 16: and twenty years ago. But same practices are being adopted
49:01
Speaker 16: by Hamas. By the brother of yeh Mohammad Sinhua was
49:05
Speaker 16: now taking the lead of Hamas on ground in Gaza.
49:08
Speaker 16: So we do assess that this this last minute crisis
49:12
Speaker 16: are part of the need or the i would say
49:16
Speaker 16: stress of Hamas to gain some more assets before the
49:20
Speaker 16: final and really signed here.
49:23
Speaker 3: But one of the things they wanted was Sinoa's body.
49:26
Speaker 3: That was a demand that they kept making.
49:30
Speaker 16: Well, a Sinil body obviously is captivated in the hands
49:33
Speaker 16: of the Israeli authorities currently and if Israel will decide
49:37
Speaker 16: to release it, then it will have harsh demands for
49:39
Speaker 16: Hamas in this regard. We have some as you know, Sherry,
49:42
Speaker 16: we have some soldiers who I've also personally been involved
49:45
Speaker 16: in the cases that have been kidnapped and the remains
49:49
Speaker 16: are still in the hands of Hamas from the twenty
49:51
Speaker 16: fourteen military campaign in Gaza.
49:54
Speaker 3: So we have some out of time, but I am
49:57
Speaker 3: so grateful for you joining us tonight. Thank you very
50:00
Speaker 3: much for your expertise. All right, that's all we have
50:02
Speaker 3: time for now. I'll see you Monday at eight o'clock.
50:05
Speaker 3: Thank you for watching this week. And here's Paul Murray