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Are the Cubs stuck? Or is there a way out of this mediocrity? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Really it's been one of those up and down seasons
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: and and you know, that's that's part of part of
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: what life is like when you have a player like
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Niko Horner. Welcome into north Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Were your Cubs beat writers for The Athletic Patrick Today,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the Cubs Are they stuck? That's the theme for Yes,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: it's a it's you know, I think we've we've probably
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: talked about this in different ways over the course of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the year, but it's something that I I I keep
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: hearing from people around the league and and not so
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: much as like stating fact as much as like asking
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the question, like how like what are the moves? How
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: do they how do they get to a place where
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: they're not kind of like stuck in this eighty three
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to eighty five win, you know, cycle, like where it
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: kind of feels like they are. And and you know,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: we talked the last episode about everyone kind of admitting
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the need to get better. There's it's not they're not
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: hiding the ball here. They know they're not good enough.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And there was this big jump from twenty two to
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: twenty three that I thought was very the game from
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: optimism right like that that made it feel like, ah,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: here's the progress. And there was supposed to be another
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: jump this year and that didn't happen, and that that
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: makes it feel like, oh, wait a second, where are they?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Are they? This eighty three win team? Is that what's
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: been built? And when you look at the current roster
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and you looked at the contracts, you start to wonder,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: how do you get better? Okay? And and I think
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: it's it comes down to there's a lot of different
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: things that we could talk about here, but there are
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the corner outfielders are good ballplayers there just are uh
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and I guess right now, say it's not a corner outfielder.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: He's been dah for two months, but still let's let's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: call him a corner outfielder or at least if he's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: locked in a DH whatever it is. There, it feels like,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: well that those are spots you you want, like you
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: could maybe find a superstar bat. I don't know if
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: it's easy to find one, right like, like some people
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: look at it that way. Those are good ballplayers and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: you don't want to get rid of them, but they're
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: locked into those spots. Uh, and you have prospects that
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: could fit into those spots. So kind of what do
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you do? How do you how does this work? How
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: what's the vision to make this eighty three ish win
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: team a ninety ish win team or more. That's I'm
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: not sure if we're going to solve that conundrum during
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: this episode.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I think that no promises the.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Front office is faced with this answering this question, it's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: their job to kind of solve this.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think it's interesting.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I think we've had the same experience in reporting out
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: different stuff towards the end of the year, and that
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: perspective that's gained as Game one sixty two approaches like
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: this is not just like a a Twitter rant or
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: argument like this idea of being stuck like it's very
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: much an idea that internally and externally around the baseball
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: industry is being bandied about. And I think you're right
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: to point out that these are good players. This is
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: not being stuck with like Jason Hayward at his lowest
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: offensive moment, with like a super long contract on the horizon.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: These are still shorter.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: Term, medium term deals at reasonable prices for the production.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: You know, I think it's going to be fascinating to
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: see what Cody Bellinger does. I mean, as of the
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: other day, there was no decision had been made. I'd
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: imagine they would take some time in October to assess
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: options and the like. But if Cody does come back,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: I think you probably get another good season.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Out of him.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: You know, say, it's funny when you mentioned the d
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: H stuff. When we were at Dodger Stadium a couple
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: of weeks ago, Peter Armstrong had, you know, just an
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: awesome series, and he was being interviewed, including on TV
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: by a group of us, and he was trying to
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: deflect attention and say, you know, well we got we
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: got we got four great outfielders here, and then he
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: caught himself He's like, well five sometimes I forget that's
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: say I still plays the outfield. And he wasn't like
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: he wasn't like trying to uh rip saya. It was
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: just kind of a really funny, like unscripted, lighthearted moment.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: But you know, I think the Cubs are kind of
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: going back and forth here, like, yes, say is a
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: pretty good DH.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: That's probably his best position.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: But you don't want to like lose that ability in
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: right field either, just in case something happens. And I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: still think Bellinger could be really valuable, like his ability
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: to cover all those different positions.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: It really plays over one sixty two.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: And so that's why you wrote it again, and I've
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: written it before, and I don't think we're you can
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: hammer the point enough like they need pitching. You know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: you wrote about some of the pitching prospects in the
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Athletic this week. So if you have that guy towards
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the front of your rotation who can really lengthen things
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: and then you figure out some of the position player
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: side stuff later.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree. I think that's that's probably I
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: think that's that's the philosophy you kind of have to
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: look at here. It's not about like what position are
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: we weak at? Where like we need to upgrade at
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: position X, right, like capture isn't good enough? Upgrade there? Okay,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: yeah great? How how how are you going to get
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a better catcher? Really hard to do. So I'm not
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: saying don't explore it, don't don't try and be creative,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean you bang your head against the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: wall all winter trying to solve only that and don't
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: search for other creative ways to get better. The most
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: obvious and easiest path to getting better is really improved.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Being the rotation already a strength, make it even better, right.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I think we all agree that's that's likely going to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: happen or likely going to They're likely going to attempt
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to make that happen because it just it's easier to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: do with what's available. Improving catchers really hard. I think
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: one area that I think is worth debating, and I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: don't I go back and forth on this, but is
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: trading Nico Horner to upgrade offensively at second base, which
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: could be Matt Shaw. I think there's an argument to
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: be made that maybe you get a placeholder for a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: couple of months, someone that you trust can be lee
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: average or better offensively there, and then also be willing
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to move to the bench when Matt Shaw's definitely ready.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe match Shaw. Maybe you're just push Mattshaw and say
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: he's the opening day second baseman. I don't know, I'm trying.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: This is more of an exercise than a than a like.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: The Cubs have to do this, It's just something they
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: have to explore because he's tradeable, he's valuable. You can
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: market him as a shortstop and you do that. Yeah,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and and he's he's gonna like what is he He's
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: like get a hundred way to runs great A plus
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: now after being like really it's been one of those
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: up and down seasons and and you know that's that's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: part of part of what life is like. When you
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: have a player like Nico Horner who is super contact
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: oriented and doesn't put the ball over the fence, there
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: are going to be like these up and down performances
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: because it's heavily reliant on Babbitt. But he you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: if he gets the ball in the air and hits
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it on the line, he's gonna he's gonna do better.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And and he's he's had some better games of late,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and you're seeing that as he's it's exactly a hundred
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: way to run screat a plus, not not far off
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: from where he was last year or even the year before.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: His war is a little bit down, but you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's because he's he's not being rated as
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: highly defensively, and frankly he's he's a great defender, Like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: so you know, I think he uh, I think that's
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: where it gets interesting, like can you what what can
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you get for him? And then how do you feel
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: about the upgrade at second base? So the question and
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I was having this chat with with another writer yesterday,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like the question isn't just like what's the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: upgrade at second base? It's what's the combined value of
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: trading him? What like what you get in return? And
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: then and then the whoever you put at second base?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Right that, like what's that value bring to the team,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Because it's all about, like councils said it the first
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: time we talked to him at the winter meetings. I
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: believe he's like, we're solving for wins. Right when I
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: asked I think I asked him about like the impact
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that a superstar bat could have on the lineup, because
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and he's like, ultimately, what you're trying to do is like, yeah, yeah,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: would we love to have one guy that provides eight wins? Yes, yeah,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I'd love that is yeah, but if we can get
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that from three different players, maybe it's it's just as valuable.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I fully agree with, but especially
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about a lineup. But but I think
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about a player like Nico Horner and
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you're trying to upgrade the offense at one position, and
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: then you're getting I don't know what. I don't want
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: to speculate too far as far as names that you
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: can get for Nico Horner. But is it an impact reliever?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Is it a number three starter? Is it is it
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: a top prospect and a five starter? I don't know.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm kind of like, I don't know what
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: his value is. But you can you can think about
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: different areas too. Maybe maybe it's a catcher, right, uh,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: who knows, who knows what you can get, but teams
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: are gonna want a player like him. He's an average
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: league average bat, he puts the ball in play, and
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: he's an elite defender who can be a plus defender
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: at shortstop as well.
• 11:09
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• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it'll be hard to line up that value,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: but I have to say I did not see a
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: parade ase type trade coming this trade deadline, so maybe
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: the Cubs are more creative than.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I had given them credit. For my gut feel, I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: still don't like it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: I think you're talking about I mean, not you in particular,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: but just the general discourse of this is like needing
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: a lot of things to happen and kind of shuffling
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: things around when I don't think Nico is the problem.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I don't think ian have is the problem. I just
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: think they need just more around them. And I'm curious
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: how you've talked to Ian Happa. Think you've got a
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: story comming at some point here on the short term horizon.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Like I don't really quite know why, and maybe it's
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: just exaggerated on social media, but it seems like people
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: don't really.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Have a lot of affinity for Ian Hap.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of the right way to say it,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: but this is a home grown guy who decided to stay,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: who married a girl from the Chicago area, who's really
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: like found himself as a player, turned himself into a
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: gold glove winterer, granted not at a premium position, but
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: for someone who had bounced around defensively earlier in his
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: career and offensively had lots of peaks and valleys as
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: a young player, he's really found a nice level of
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: consistency and really, I do think enjoys playing at Wrigley
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Field and gets it in a lot of ways. What
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: are your takeaways from from his year As we near
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: the end here.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean ian Ian's put up his best season
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of his career, you know, like he's he's gonna he's
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: gonna be pushing for war this year. And and I
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: mean we're talking about a guy that like in his
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: first few years was like one one and a half.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Like that's because he was a poor defender at multiple
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: positions and high strikeout guy that it was like high peaks,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: low valleys, and and he's really like, yeah, are there
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: valleys at times? Sure, but but he but they're not
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: as extreme and he quickly gets out of those stretches
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and he can and he can kind of work through
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: it by like Okay, here's some walks and and and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: getting on base for you. And yeah, is it is
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: plus defense at left field like the most valuable thing? No,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: it's not. But but he's he's a good all round player.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: He's a quality player. He's a he's a good influence
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: in the clubhouse. He's not like this super talkative guy
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: or like raw rock guy, but he's certainly has a
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: good work ethic. Uh and uh, I think he gets
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a bad rap for that because he has other interests
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: other than baseball. But but it's not like he doesn't.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: He doesn't put the work in and and and know
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: the game and try to get better. He I did
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: kind of ask him about like that idea of like
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: player people not really value yeah, fully valuing him. He
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: kind of he brushed it off. He wasn't that interested.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And like what He's like, I know, I know what
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I bring to the table. He's he's he's confident, dude, Dude,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: you for sure. It's not like he's lacking in confidence.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: He knows who he is and what he wants to be.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Even he even pushed back on me on when I
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: brought up like power power dip. He's like, I just
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: don't fully agree with that. Like this, this is one
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: of his best years when it comes to power, since
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: he became a consistent player. Right like that happened in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, right like the consistency came, but the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: power kind of dipped. He's like, look, it's a matter
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of like five balls that get hit off the wall
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: or that gopher doubles that end up over the over
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the fence. He's like, if you combine my extra base hits,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: it's all very similar. It's just like a couple are
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: going over the wall this year that didn't go last year.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And he's like, and that's extra weird this year because
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of the way Wrigley played. So he he just he
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: thinks he thinks there's a little bit of randomness in
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the power department. He thinks, he he he just clipped
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: a few better this year than the previous two years,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: especially in twenty twenty two. We talked about it a lot,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: like he thought in twenty twenty two there were like
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: so many balls that got knocked down by the windoor
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: or just like very like that ended up being doubles
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: off the wall, and you know, that's a that's fine.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Like I I told him, I was like, I'm I'm
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: looking strictly at the numbers, not like every single hit, like,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and the numbers say you're having one of your better
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: ISO seasons power seasons in a while. And he's like, no,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: that's fair, So talking about numbers, yeah, absolutely so. So
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I mean it's fun to talk to him about that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: because he's not going to just be like, oh, these
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: numbers make no sense to me that you're saying, And
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I'll just nod my head and then say nonsense. He's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: he's and he and he'll come at you with specifics.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: He's like I did this eight times, and he's like,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: well I did eight and whatever. He had like exact numbers,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know if that's true,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: but okay, so he's he's a I think he's a
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: valuable player. I think you know that he's on a
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: bargain deal. And frankly, Nico is too. Nico's making what
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: like eleven million dollars and it's probably worth like twenty
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: five when you consider like dollar per war. Like that's
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: just how baseball. You know, It's it's hard to I know, fans,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: especially when you're not like hitting thirty plus homers. Fans
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: struggle to find the value in a player. But like,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Nico's incredibly valuable. Happ is, isn't it? And I think
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it all it's all gonna come back down to this Patrick.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: They're not superstars, right, So that that makes it a
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: little harder to say, like, well I love this player,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: you know, for the fans like this, this guy just
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you know, this guy makes it all happen, and especially
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: guys like well, first of all, say it doesn't speak
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the language, and then and then perhaps not the super
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: demonstrative guy, you know, like and like you can overcome that,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: like Chris Bryant did by being an MVP. Right yeah, yeah,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But like people loved Rizzo because you always had some
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: good quotes and and like played to the fans and
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, uh like had like more of an
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: outgoing personality. Uh Hobby was flashy Wilson, he knew how
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to play to the crowd, right, Like sure, So yeah,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you have these players that that from the previous cores
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: that like all had different reasons why fans just like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: love them. I mean Schwarber, how can you not love
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: that that pitch, by the way, the pitch that he
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: hit on Tuesday, Just like I love watching his development
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: ninety eight at the Eyes and he's and he's hitting
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it out like that was what crushed him his entire
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: time with the Cubs. And he's he's rocketing that out
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of the ballpark. But we don't I don't want to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: derail it with Schwarber. Uh talking, No, I think good.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I was even before you started down that path.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I was sort of thinking, like one difference between now
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: and then is that we're talking about guys who've largely
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: had pretty good seasons or have value in a way
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: that when the Cubs started to decline, there we're thinking
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: that seventeen eighteen, nineteen twenty sort of window you had
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: guys coming off bad seasons or off the field issues,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: thinking of Addison Russell obviously, now you have Ian Havinsaya
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: with no trade clauses, But like it's not hard to
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: envision a team to your point looking at Nico as
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: a quality major league shortstop.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And valuing him that way.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: If we go back to that previous window, there was
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: not a group at Triple A Iowa that would rival
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: the potential of Matt Shaw, Kevin Okatara, was Baalsteros, James Trianto,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: So noan casey like those are all, you know, players
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: with major league trajectories potential major league value. So like
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: when you have competent, solid, above average major league players
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and guys knocking on the door at Iowa, it does
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: give you a lot of options. And I think this
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: is there's been pleasant surprises like Pca being basically penciled
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: into play center field for like one hundred and fifty
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: plus games for the next what like six years, Like
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: that's probably what they're thinking, what they're hoping. It's not
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: totally unreasonable if he stays healthy. So when you have this,
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: like do you let some of those guys develop more
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: in Iowa?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Like who are you going to give that pathway? I mean,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: do you.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Let some of this play out at the major league
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: level and at Iowa and go heavy on the on
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the pitching side and then you have some nice, really
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: nice on the pitching end position player sides for the
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: next like year or two. If this is how it
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: kind of plays out, like, it's not not what anyone
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: wants to hear. I would not recommend that as like
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: a plan to sell internally or to your paying customers,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: but like that's kind of where they are now. I
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: feel like, you know, sort of stuck or stationary doesn't
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: necessarily mean like desperate or dire, but they're gonna have
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: They're gonna have to kind of pick a lane here
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: pretty soon.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And when you talk about depth, I do think
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: there's something to like if you can find an upgraded catcher,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: right Like, if you can and I don't know if
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that means moving a Maya or keeping him, but if
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you can find a catcher that's that's an offensive improvement
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and a defensive you know, not a downgrade. It stabilizes there.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Now you're talking about all these guys at depth, right,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you don't if you don't we're talking about not moving
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Nico and you upgrade Catcher, you solidify the rotation. Obviously
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: bullpen is going to be treated how it's always treated.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe you turn that up a little more in
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: terms of your investment and your risk.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Sure like it. I'm not saying they go crazy spending
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: there and get Josh hater types, but there's there's probably
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: something you can do to be a little bit more
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: aggressive to addressing that without completely going out of what
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you know Jed and Carter do there. It's not it
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: may not excite people in the end, right, But like
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: if you have match shaw Bia Stereosil contra casey as
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: like depthor or like knocking on the door type thing
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in April, maybe one or maybe one of them is
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: up to start the season. I don't know, but but
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: in all likelihood there if they're depth, and then you're
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: talking about Ben Brown, Jordan Wicks, Kate Horton, Ah, there's
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Hayden Wisneski as like either bullpen arms or or rotation depth.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And then we're talking about other guys that have kind
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: of developed, like Brandon Birdsell is someone that I wrote about.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: He's gonna be rotation depth next to year like that,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that's a quality arm, Like, that's where you want to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: be as an organization, right where your depth isn't an
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna name names for your depth. Where
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: your depth isn't the guys that yeah, yeah, like these
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: are your really impactful prospects that are almost ready to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: impact the team on an everyday basis, and then the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: second you have an injury, the second you have under
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a performance like, Okay, here's the guy we're calling upon,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and he's coming and if he takes the job, he
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: takes it right, and that's how we're gonna work. By
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a stereos by a stirrus is kind of a nice
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: little piece in the sense that you don't want to
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: give up on him as a catcher, right. But if
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you have two catchers and they're playing okay, and say
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: one gets hurt for you know, the minimum amount of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: time or like a month, you can call it by
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: a stairs he can he can can't handle the split duties,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and then if he performs, then it's like, Okay, this
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: guy's going to get time still, Well, we'll figure it out.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: He'll he'll split time with it. It'll be a three
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: catcher rotation and he'll d h at times. Right, Like,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you make it work, right when when you have talent.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: They did it with Wilson, They've done it with so
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: many players in the past. It's not something that you're like,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: how does this happen? You? Just when you have talent
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and they force their way, you make it work. And
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I think next year is the year where we're not
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: talking about what this year where fans are like, why
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: aren't these guys coming up yet? Next year is the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: year where where they will be coming up. They're all
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: those guys unless they're traded. I didn't even mention James
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Toronto's I don't know who in that group is getting traded.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Some of them probably are this winter.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: And probably in their best interest to trade.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But but others are going to be at minimum
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: depth that's called up, called upon almost immediately when there's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a need, uh, and and that that's how you build
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: a good team. They do need a difference making move
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: somewhere in there. And uh, you know, ultimately it made
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: this be the rotation because it does feel a little
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: like we started this podcast a little bit stuck, a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: little bit difficult to really shake things up on offense.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And I think you're right what you said. We were
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: both a little surprised by the greatest move. Yeah. So
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: if they can they can continue, If they can continue
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to surprise us, hey, more power to them. But right
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: now it is hard to see a clear path to
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: improving this lineup at least, which is why it may
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: have to be the pictures. All right, Patrick, that's it
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: for today. We'll have another podcast coming out this week
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to wrap up the season. We'll do that next week,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I guess the Gentle Talk Back week as well. Thanks
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: so much for listening everyone, This is Northside Territory. Make
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: sure to rate, review and subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Athletic where Patrick and I will have
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: you covered all off season. Thanks so much for listening.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you listeners. Take care,